#2 year relation ships for u all three will b

[spike-and-faye]

Hello, I require your infinite wisdom please!! :O So I just finished cowboy bebop and I am so confused like who the fuck was Julia. WHAT was Faye's past. I literally never process tv shows and the bebop was not immune to my stupidity LMAO like... I guess the ending just really confused me, from what I gathered Spike and Vicious were friends? But then they weren't? And Julia dated Vicious but also Spike? And he? Went after Vicious even after Julia had died? I am Confusion. Please help. Thank u...

Oh BABEY I am so glad you asked! :) Be prepared for a long answer and I apologize in advance for how incoherent it will probably be.

ALSO Please note: this show is fucking complicated. I have watched it all the way through several times a year, every single year, for over a decade now, and I am *STILL* finding new shit every time I watch it. It's packed with symbols, motifs, allusions and underlying themes that are just so rich. It is so extraordinarily well-written that it could give a lot of classic literature a run for its money. I'm literally working on an in depth literary/film analysis my husband lovingly calls my Manifesto on the series right now. SO PLEASE don't beat yourself up about not catching everything on the first go round.

HEY BTW for anyone who hasn't finished the show, please know there will be MANY spoilers ahead!

Anyways ~

1.     Spike / Julia / Vicious:

The information we get on Spike's past, including Vicious and Julia, is pretty limited considering how big of an impact they have on the story. We get our first glimpse in Session 1: Asteroid Blues, then again in Session 5: Ballad of Fallen Angels, Sessions 12 + 13: Jupiter Jazz, and Sessions 25 + 26: Real Folk Blues. I recommend reviewing these episodes for you Julia and Vicious fix.

What we know:

Spike and Vicious were both members of an organized crime syndicate called the Red Dragons, which is roughly analogous to the Yakuza or the Mafia. Their positions in the organization are not clear, but there are some images alluding to them being hitmen, and they likely rose up in the ranks as they were close acquaintances of Mao Yenrai, a Capo of the Red Dragon.

Spike and Vicious were close comrades. Spike taught Vicious everything he knew about fighting, and the two had a deep trust in each other. Which Spike fucked up ….

^^Vicious looks hot asf here

Julia was Vicious' lover/girlfriend. One night in 2068 (three years prior to the time we watch in the Bebop) Spike is injured, presumably from a syndicate-related fight and he passes out in front of her door. She takes him in and nurses him back to health and he SIMPS HARD for her. We’re all but told he's in LOVE love with her. They start an affair, and Spike tells her he's ready to abandon the whole life - the syndicate, Vicious, Mao, all of it - and they could run away together.

WELL Vicious finds out about this whole affair, and is DOUBLY betrayed because his literal best friend and girlfriend have been having an affair, and tbh I think he was just as jealous of Spike's attentions as he was of Julia's. (Whether or not it’s a sexual thing for Spike … well … I have my own headcanons about that). SO when he finds out they're going to run away together, he gives Julia an ultimatum: you can either kill him, or I'll just kill you both. Spike had written her a letter about meeting him in the graveyard to start their new life together, which she tears up to hide his location from Vicious. (This is the falling ripped up pieces of paper we see in Spike's flash back in Session 5).

^^ r/gifsyoucanhear

**NOTE: There are those who disagree with this view, (looking at you Cowboy Bebop wiki) instead suggesting Vicious and Spike were buds in the past, but then hated each other once they were both considered as potential successors to Mao. That's why Vicious wanted him dead, and he was enlisting Julia (who he didn't necessarily have a romantic connection to) to help kill Spike since he knew Spike loved her. Personally, I think there is plenty of evidence that Vicious also wanted Julia, and in fact was already with her, when Spike started seeing her. If you want me to cite my sources please send an me an ask about it :)

Spike gets the idea, whether by her just not showing up or word around the syndicate being like YO Vicious wants you dead. Despite Vicious' ultimatum to Julia, he was gunna kill Spike either way. SO he sets up an ambush, and SadBoy™ Spike walks intentionally into their trap. Somehow, he doesn't die, though the entire syndicate thinks he did. (Note Annie's reaction to seeing him alive in Session 5). It’s also implied that this is where he lost his eye.

HIS EYE - possibly the most important symbol in the show so I do have to mention it. In episode 26, he explicitly explains to Faye that one of his eyes only sees the past. (PS this isn't dissimilar to Jet's arm… we can get into that another time). Basically, he's constantly living halfway in the past and halfway in the present, and describes the past like a dream he can never wake up from. Because dysfunctional or not - the syndicate WAS his family. (Again - see his relationship with Annie, Mao, and Vicious (prior to Spike's betrayal)). It's his reminder that Julia didn't run away with him, and that he'd left behind that life for her. (He didn’t know she was being threatened until the final episode). Basically Spike is hyper-fixated on what he had and what could've been.

Not long after this, Spike starts bounty hunting because like? What else is he going to do. He doesn't care if he lives or dies but if he has to be alive, he may as well be able to eat. He joins up with Jet Black on the Bebop.

TL; DR: Spike stole Vicious' lover, Julia, so Vicious made Julia choose between her killing Spike or Vicious killing them both. She instead went into hiding and Spike thought he'd been stood up. He fake died and got the hell outta dodge.

2.     What was Faye's past?

Ok let me start by saying Faye is my wife and my life. HOWEVER I hated her the first time I watched this show circa age 13 because I thought she was annoying/vain/shallow (also because #internalizedmisogyny lol am I right fam). Good news! She is all those things! But she's also very lonely and scared and an amnesiac and secretly a sweetie and she realizes she loves the crew of the Bebop like family.

SO my wife's backstory:

she was born in the 1990s (#only90skidsremember). There's some debate over her race/nationality, but due to the images of her hanging out in Merlion Park in Singapore, my bet is that she's Singaporean. She comes from a wealthy family with a big house, and we see some utterly *adorable* film of her as a child/young adolescent in Session 18: Speak Like a Child. I cry everytime </3

^^ Holla for the representation

In 2014, circa age 20, she and her parents were going into space when the shuttle they were on had some kind of malfunction/accident and it killed an unknown number of people, including her parents. At the time, the technology didn’t exist to be able to save her, so she was put into a cryogenic sleep state. Meanwhile, the Lunar Gate accident occurs, breaking up the moon and causing rock showers on Earth's surface. Most people died, moved to Mars, or settled underground.

She wakes up from her cryogenic sleep in 2068. (Also the year Spike leaves the syndicate.) She's 'woken' by the corrupt Dr. Bacchus who plans on charging her for the years and years of medical debt she's accrued. (See Session 15: My Funny Valentine.) Luckily a lawyer takes interest in her case (Whitney Haggus Matsumoto) and tries to help get rid of her debt. The two fall in love, but turns out Whitney is a Scumbag. He's actually Dr. Bacchus's nephew, and faked his death, writing Faye as the sole inheritor to his will. This means she'll take on all his debts. So baby girl has LOTS of debt at this point.

In the intervening years prior to her joining the Bebop, she gambles, cheats, gains a lot of street smarts, and adopts a very seductive character to get her way. She joins the crew on the Bebop in Session 3: Honky Tonk Women.

TL;DR: Faye is Austin powers

YIKES this is so long I am so sorry. Bitches are obsessed with this show. (I am bitches)

3.     The Ending

Okay I'm going to present this in the way, in my scholarly opinion, would be correct, though there are SO many interpretations other than simply 'Spike died :/".

To understand the plot of the last couple episodes we actually have to go back to Session 5: Mao is instructed* to sign a treaty with a rival syndicate called the White Tigers. (*He's instructed by The Van (Council of identical creepy old men) who are the actual head of the dragon. I think we only see them in Session 26.) Well - Vicious is a Bastard Man and he and his fellow mutineers blow up the White Tiger guys' ship and slit Mao's throat. Before he dies, Mao is like "Gotdamnit if Spike was still here this shit wouldn't have happened." Later in the Cathedral battle, Vicious explains to Spike he killed Mao because Mao 'lost his fangs'. He planned on killing Spike for good her, IMO, so there'd be no rival to take over as Capo for the Dragons.

^^These guys are The Van btw

THEN in Session 25, the Van basically catches Vicious and is like “you killed Mao and now you have to go to Time Out.” The Van also decides to just kill everyone associated with Vicious, just 2 B safe. That's why there's a big ass shootout at the Loser Bar where Jet and Spike are chilling, drinking, (missing Faye and Ed and Ein lol) and Shin (younger brother to Lin, who's helping Vicious overthrow the Dragon) explains all this to Spike. OH and PS JULIA IS ALIVE AND HERE IS HER LOCATION :). (**Notice Spike's reaction at this point is different than his reaction in Jupiter Jazz when he hears there's a Julia on Calisto. Much less excited… hmm…).

SO THEN you know we get some flashbacks of the past as previously explained *and* Julia just happens to run into Faye. She recognizes that Faye is one of Spike's friends from the Bebop (she was keeping tabs on him it seems) and picks her up. Faye doesn't know who Julia is but is like damn bitch I'm a little gay for you. (I mean … that may just be my bi ass projecting, but Faye is REALLY struck with her. Look at how she describes her to Jet, I mean come on.)

 Faye's like, 'we should team up' and Julia says 'no thanks but also tell Spike to meet me at *the place*'. Meanwhile back on the Bebop Spike and Jet are talking and Spike goes on about some dream woman who was his other half. (We assume he means Julia … I have my reasons to doubt this … I have a lot of angry DMs about my opinion here lol but I just do not give a fuck (: I can expand on this in another post or you can refer to the title of my fucking blog haha) Personally, I think Watanabe personally left this specific scene open ended, the same way he does with the ending and various other things.

more like SIMP Spiegel

ANYWAY Faye comes back to the Bebop to tell Spike about Julia, and Jet gets intel from a former cop buddy that there's some shit going down with the Dragons. (Again, the Van is hunting down everyone ever associated with Vicious, including your pal Spike). Bebop is attacked, Faye tells Spike what's up with Julia, and he heads out.

 PAN TO VICIOUS chained up - about to be executed - but what's that!? It's a bird!? It's a pla- no it's just a bird. (With one glowing red eye … hm … reminds me of Spike, also the drug Red Eye. Pls let me know if you have any thoughts on this). Just a bird with a BOMB! Explosion (RIP bird c. 2065 - too soon), Vicious kills the elders, his buddies show up and are ready to go fuck shit up.

this show could not be more of an aesthetic

MMMPhhh okay RAINY CEMETERY. Spike and Julia. She draws a gun, explains why she didn't meet him that day, and then hugs him. Now Spike is not *great* at showing his emotions but he literally just stands there. Maybe it's a stoic expression of how sad he is that he never knew she still cared, when it seemed like she dumped him. Maybe he's finally getting some closure on his past. Maybe the past doesn't mean the same thing it used to. (I'll elaborate later on this).

They go to Annie's to get stocked up on stuff, she lets them know she denied knowing Spike was still alive and hey also the Van was assassinated by Vicious and his guys so. Watch out for that. Then her shop is surrounded by Vicious' guys and she dies :(. Spike and Julia escape to the roof, but she's shot and dies in Spike's arms, and says 'it's all just a dream' :(. (Refer to: Spike living in a dream of the past).

Anyway Jet SAID he wasn't gunna go after Spike but. Jet's parental instincts kick in (oh yeah he was shot in the leg earlier btw) and he goes to Sitting Bull to see if he knows where Spike is. He basically says yeah Spike's about to die somewhere. (I want to do a further analysis on all the Sitting Bull scenes.) Well conveniently Spike returns to the Bebop, eats, tells his story about a tiger-striped cat. (At one point Jet asks if he's going there for her, and Spike is like well she's dead now so whatever). THEN we get to the scene where Faye is like HEY YOU CAN'T GO OFF AND DIE ASSHOLE and he's like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I 've been living in the past so I might as well see if I'm living now. (**This will play heavily into my interpretation of the ending). Faye is pissed, shoots the ceiling and he goes off to the syndicate headquarters to fuck shit up.

He basically John Wicks his way through the building, Shin dies, he and Vicious have the big boss battle and whatnot. He kills Vicious and stumbles back out down the stairs and says "Bang!" and collapses. We pan to the sky and see a star fade away.

Well that explains the plot … now here's what I think happened!!! ALSO may I mention, anon - you picked up on something I feel like a lot of people miss out on. Why *did* Spike go back to kill Vicious if Julia was already dead??

Basically, once it became clear that anyone associated with Vicious was being killed, Spike knew they'd hunt him down, and they weren't beneath Kill-Billing their way to him, (i.e. systematically destroying this companions to get to him). And for all his apparent indifference - he really loves his new found family. Jet is literally like an older brother to him. Ed is a little sister. Ein is well … a very good boy. And Faye? Well the relationship is complicated, and I'm not going to get into the 69,420 reasons I ship them here, but I think it is beyond argument that he really does care for her, even if that just in a filial way. He didn't want the syndicates to kill them for their association to him, or in order to get to him. So he did what he had to do to protect them. *AND NO* I am not saying that he didn't love Julia. But it was clear that his desire was no longer to run away with her. I think he genuinely loved and cared about her, but at some point between Jupiter Jazz Pt 2 and now, he accepted that their time together was over. Now he had a new raison d'etre, which is the Bebop.

I think at this point Spike has 'woken up' to reality (as he implied to Faye in their final conversation in episode 26: "Look at these eyes. One of them is a fake, because I lost it in an accident. Since then, I have been seeing the past in one eye, and the present in the other. I had believed that what I saw was not all of reality...I thought I was watching a dream that I would never awaken from. Before I knew it, the dream was all over." (This is from the sub btw I'm too lazy to look up the dub transcript.) He wasn't going there to die, he's going to find out if he's really alive. This line is fucking cool and everything - but it's implications are multitude. I won't go into them all here but basically : what makes him alive now is that he's free from his past. He's alive because he has this new family and protecting them is all he really wants now. Spike was protecting Jet, Faye, Ed, (and Ein) by going and facing the entire syndicate, knowing that their lives would all be in danger.

SO - did Spike die? Well again - Watanabe has purposely and artfully left this open ended. Well, if we're following the symbolism from Sitting Bull, then yeah, the man is as dead as disco, and wouldn't that be a fitting ending? BUT at the same time, Spike always refers to having 'died' before (meaning when he was ambushed by the syndicate, and they all thought he died, and he pretty much did). Don't forget that in  movie (takes places roughly between episodes 22 + 23, and yes, was made AFTER the series but whatever) he like .. DIES dies. He goes to the afterlife and everything. He wakes up to find he's chilling with Sitting Bull, who's like nah it wasn't your time to die yet. So the fact Sitting Bull confirms Spike will die in the final episode, means yeah, Spike is pretty much dead.

BUT -- okay now hear me out -- could this death in the final episode be a death to his previous life? The person he was in the syndicate? Now that he's extinguished the Red Dragons for good, is it not possible that its merely *that* life which has ended? That's the optimist in me saying that, but if it keeps me from staying up all night crying, I guess it'll have to do. Watanabe definitely wants to leave it up to the viewer, so whatever you think, I feel like there's validity to it.

WELL any anon, sorry for the fucking lecture - and believe me, I could've said MUCH, MUCH more - but I enjoyed this question. I always love talking about this show so please all you fuckers feel free to message me or send an ask about anything any time. I am really slow at replying because #life'sAbitch.

Love you all.

SY,SCB <3

#sorry for the long ass rant #i could seriously talk about this all day. #i even trimmed this down so much #cowboy bebop #fuck man this show is everything #spike spiegel #julia #faye valentine #jet black #vicious #radical ed #ein #<3 #spoilers #rant

[luckyricochet]

I want you to answer A-Z on the fandom asks so I can peer into your psyche 👀

Wow I love you. This actually took around three hours since I wanted to think about the answers. See them under the cut!

A - Ships that you currently like a lot. (They don’t have to be OTPs because not everyone has OTPs.) Friendships, pairings, threesomes, etc. are allowed.

From Hanyou no Yashahime — Sesshomaru and Rin

From The Mandalorian — The Mandomera’s been creeping up a little bit. 

B - A pairing–platonic, romantic or sexual–that you initially didn’t consider, but someone changed your mind.

Honestly can’t think of one. I’m very set in my ships. 

C - A ship you have never liked and probably never will.

From Naruto — SasuSaku. Sasuke was cute as a kid so I get Sakura having a crush on him then, but I think she would have gotten over it when he became a homicidal clown who abandoned the village and tried to kill her and her teammates multiple times.

D - A pairing you wish you liked but just can’t.

From Harry Potter — Ron x Hermione. I’ve always thought their personalities didn’t match and not in the good “opposites attract” kind of way.

E - Have you added anything cracky/hilarious to your fandom? If so, what?

I only know how to write angst, drama, and introspective musings so no. 

F - What’s the longest you’ve ever been in a fandom?

Over fifteen years in the Harry Potter fandom, but I’ve had to separate that from JKR herself in the recent years. 

G - Have you ever had an OTP? If so, do you remember your first one? Who was in it?

“Have I ever had an OTP”? *laughs from shipping hell* 

From The Witch of Blackbird Pond by Elizabeth George Speare — Nat and Kit were my first OTP. Read this book in fifth grade and was immediately loved them. Boy literally risks banishment from the colony to help prove she’s not a witch. 

H - What is your favorite source text for fandom stuff (e.g., TV shows, movies, books, anime, Western animation, etc.)?

I love visual media, so TV, anime, and film

I - Has Tumblr caused you to stop liking any fandoms, if so, which and why?

I’m not going to let tumblr dot com put me off of a particular show/book/etc. itself, but it has definitely made me think less of certain types of fans who are in a fandom. 

J - Name a fandom you didn’t think about until you saw it all over Tumblr. (You don’t have to care about it or follow it; it just has to be something that Tumblr made you aware of.)

The...period drama fandom? More widely, the history fandom. They both create some of the most beautiful edits celebrating history and I love it. 

K - What character has your favorite development arc/the best development arc?

 From Avatar: The Last Airbender — It’s gotta be Prince Zuko

L - Say something genuinely nice about a character who isn’t one of your faves. (Characters you’re neutral about are fair game, as are characters you merely dislike. Characters that you absolutely loathe with the fire of ten thousand suns are exempt, as there is no point in giving yourself an aneurysm over a character that you hate.)

From Harry Potter — I think Ginny is a Mary Sue but I loved when she stood up for herself in Half-Blood Prince when Ron was trying to slut-shame her. 

M - Name a character that you’d like to have for a friend.

From Parks and Recreation — Leslie Knope. Unending positive affirmations, thoughtfulness, and support!

N - Name three things you wish you saw more or in your main fandom (or a fandom of choice).

I don’t really have a main fandom but I haven’t mentioned Free! yet so let’s go with it for this one. 

1. Less Nitori because I can’t stand him.

2. More female characters! I get half the appeal is the boys, but I’d love to see a girls swim team in some capacity. 

3. More Haru and his family dynamics! Doesn’t have to be a ton, but I want to know what his relationship with his parents like, especially as an adult.

O - Choose a song at random. Which ship or character does it remind you of?

Salt and the Sea - The Lumineers. “From the destruction, out of the flame. You need a villain, give me a name.” Such an Odesta song. (Finnick x Annie from the Hunger Games)

P - Invent a random AU for any fandom (we always need more ideas).

For The Mandalorian — A historical AU set in early 1900s New York City where Mando’s just some government agent sent to “report” on slum conditions to satisfy some housing law. He goes meaning to write up a generic report but then finds the orphaned Baby Yoda abandoned in one of the tenements. Shocked by the conditions of the slums, Mando goes from being an apathetic, middling-level bureaucrat to being an anonymous investigative journalist reporting on the corruption in the government that allows for the city’s most vulnerable citizens to live in squalor, leading the government on a search to find who within their ranks is exposing them. 

Q - A fandom you’ve abandoned and why.

Sherlock, because it just took so long for the third series to come out. I had moved on to other fandoms by the time it did. Still have fond memories of when I was active in it, though. 

R - Which friendship/platonic relationship is your favorite in fandom?

From Lord of the Rings — Aragorn and Legolas. This is played up a lot more in the films but I love it. 

S - Show us an example of your personal headcanon (prompts optional but encouraged)

For Lord of the Rings — Boromir definitely taught Faramir swordplay when they were little kids since their father didn’t want to. 

T - Do you have any hard and fast headcanons that you will die defending?

From Hanyou no Yashahime — Rin made the first move. Sesshomaru would be way too clueless to even know how to go about it. 

U - Three favorite characters from three different fandoms, and why they’re your favorites.

From Pirates of the Caribbean — James Norrington: Commodore in the Royal Navy during the 18th century, must I explain any further? Cool, calm, and collected on the job while looking v good while he does it but a nervous wreck in front of the woman he fancies. Tell me that’s not straight out of Austen.

From Star Wars (OT) — Luke Skywalker: An unapologetically good person in a crapsack world, doing his best to bring light into the world. A classic hero archetype who grows out of his naïveté to become a cunning—but still benevolent—Jedi. 

From Prince of Tennis — Yukimura Seiichi: His duality is *chef’s kiss*. Super scary and in charge on the court, gentle sweet boy who loves art and culture off the court. He struggled for so long but was able to overcome it all through his hard work and willpower.

Bonus favorite, because I couldn’t resist...

From Band of Brothers — Doc Roe: He’s doing the MOST for his guys but he really just needs a hug. Plus he’s got the accent.

V - Which character do you relate to most?

From Little Women — Jo March, especially as portrayed by Saoirse Ronan in the 2019 adaptation. Writer, holds grudges, opinionated, stubborn, eschewed “girliness” in her youth but is more open to it and romanticism as an adult. 

W - A trope which you are virtually certain to hate in any fandom.

I’ve gotten to the point where even the hint of a love triangle tests my patience.

X - A trope which you are almost certain to love in any fandom.

It’s about the yearning: Longing Look

Also will definitely always ship the Brooding Boy and the Gentle Girl

Y - What are your secondhand fandoms (i.e., fandoms you aren’t in personally but are tangentially familiar with because your friends/people on your dash are in them)?

Anything in the MCU or general superhero content.

Z - Just ramble about something fan-related, go go go! (Prompts optional but encouraged.)

I love fandom so much. I’m sort of facetious about being obsessed with people who aren’t real on my other social media accounts, but in all seriousness, being able to escape the real world to get excited over characters and relationships that face their own struggles, triumphs, and emotions is such a gift. So often they speak so powerfully on the human experience—How can you read, or watch, any of Tolkien’s work and not be moved by what he has to say about humanity and the power of good? Even if the stories are fictional, the messages they impart about life aren’t, which is what I love so much about them.

#itsacanofpeachessir #ask

[best-enemies]

For the fandom ask meme thing can I request the whole damn alphabet or is that not very cash money of me? I’m nosy lmao I wanna know all of them!

AHDKAJSDKJAHSKDA JACK YOU’RE THE BEST

A - Your current OTP(s)/OT3(s)/OTX(s)

I’ve had my current OTP for like almost 8 years and it’s, obviously, Thoschei (Doctor/Master). My other current obsession is the Gallifrey OT4 hehehe

B - A pairing you initially didn’t consider but someone changed your mind

It’s funny because I didn’t ship Hannigram at first... I’d thought the idea of a cannibal having a relationship was terrifying because what if they had sex and Hannibal got hungry in the middle of the act? Lmaoooo 

But yeah they’re my endgame now. I watched the show when it first aired and I was about 14/15 years old so now you see why I thought that. Although I’m still afraid I’m gonna be reading a fic and Hannibal will suddendly bite Will’s dick off or smth AKJHSAKJSAHSASKAJ

C - A ship you have never liked and probably never will (be nice)

Uhhh Doctor/Clara. Mainly because I don’t like to ship the Doctor with companions (there may be one or two exceptions but I don’t ship them enough to actually say I ship them lol) and I don’t know I just never vibed with it

D - A pairing you wish you liked but just can’t (again: be nice)

Doctor/River. I mean, I did like it for a while years ago but now it’s just... eh. I think she has a waaay better chemistry with the 12th Doctor, but still don’t ship it. I might give it a try once I listen to the River audios but so far meh. I’m not much of a multishipper anyway.

E - Have you added anything cracky/hilarious to your fandom, if so, what

God. I’ve written a couple of Academy Era (focused on the Deca) crack fanfics and I still have to translate them to English. They’re pure garbage but I love them. I have a lot of fun writing crack fics because they’re easier and I can ignore whatever piece of canon I want just for the laughs

F - What’s the longest you’ve ever been in a fandom

Guess it’s Doctor Who, been here (in and out of the fandom) for over 8/9 years

G - Do you remember your first OTP, if so who was in it

Uhhhh I think it was Han Solo and Leia, since I was a kid really. I wanted to marry both of them lol

H - What is your favorite source text for fandom stuff (e.g., tv shows, movies, books, anime, Western animation, etc.)

I had to google what a source text is and still don’t know

I - Has tumblr caused you to stop liking any fandoms, if so, which and why

I don’t think so, but Twitter definitively has. I remember a couple years ago I was curious to see what voltron was about and watched a few episodes, it was ok, fun and cute but the fandom was so annoying I stopped watching it for good and don’t care about it enough to pick it up again

J - Name a fandom you didn’t care/think about until you saw it all over tumblr

I had definitively forgotten about supernatural until I saw it all over my dashboard in the year of our lord 2020 lmao like in my wholock days I tried to watch the show because everyone on my dash (is it still called dashboard?) was talking about it and I watched about 8 episodes before dropping it. But seeing it again on the dash was actually a happy surprise because the memes are too funny hahaha

K -Say something nice about someone in any of your fandoms

I’m extremely shy irl and on the internet as well but I wanna say that  @janeturenne is one of the best authors ever and her fanfics are a blessing in my life; also @thebraxiatelcollection who brings awesome content to my dash and is also one of the best authors. And of course, you, Jack, also one of the best authors god I’m so BLESSED

L - Say something genuinely nice about a character who isn’t one of your faves (chars you’re neutral on are fair game, as are chars you dislike)

Uhhh I guess I’m neutral about the current companions. They’re not my favorites but I don’t really dislike them - they had a lot of potential and chibs came up with some good storylines but did not develop them well in my opinion. I think Graham is a fun grandpa whom I’m going to miss when he leaves; Ryan is cool and could’ve done a lot more if the writers had kept a few things, it’d be awesome if he vlogged all of their adventures. He’s like the one I was curious to see more but sadly didn’t feel a connection; and Yaz, I hope she’ll keep growing and that her friendship with the Doctor will finally be developed to a level we can connect to her.

It sounds weird because with the fam it’s always ‘what I wish could have been’ because I never felt really connected to them :(

M - Say something genuinely nice about a ship that you don’t ship (or its shippers, or anything related to you)

Ok... I don’t really ship Rey/Finn but I think it’s one of the sweetest ships ever, and if they ended up together I’d be happy. They love each other and are there for each other always so, yeah :D

N - Name three things you wish you saw more or in your main fandom (or a fandom of choice)

I don’t know if I got the question right but it’s three things I wish I saw more in my main fandom? Well, if it’s that, then, 3 things about the Doctor Who fandom: 1) people having more civilized or light-hearted discussions about things. Like, I genuinely disliked an 8th doctor audio I listened once that my friends loved, and they made fun of me and we joked about it. Also once we were in a live twitch video playing among us and discussing doctor who, and then we got into a ship “discourse” as a joke and nobody really cared and just laughed because everyone knew it’s fictional shit so why get mad over it? 2) Doctor Who has a titanic amount of content, it’s all canon but at the same time it’s not, so who cares? If you want to listen to Big Finish audios and if you can afford it, then lisiten; if you can’t, it’s okay, no one has the right to tell you you’re less of a fan. Just tell them to fuck off; 3) The best way to keep fandom alive is by creating content. Here in my local fandom we have several podcasts dedicated to all areas of the whoniverse (the show, the expanded universe, the audios, etc), those old fandom websites who do serious work to bring news to the fans, people who make subtitles for the classic series (we don’t have it available here so they do their best to make it accessible to other fans), accounts dedicated to promoting dr who fans who create content, and we even have people making their own audiodramas with dw characters and writing book-lenght fanfiction to help explain the show to people who’ve never watched it, and a great variety of things. I’ve seen a few of these things in the international fandom, mostly by older fans, so I wish younger fans about my age who have the means to make this kind of stuff would make it too. Maybe there’d be less twitter drama out there lol

O - Choose a song at random, which ship or character does it remind you of

“the killing moon” by echo & the bunnymen reminds me of thoschei. yep it was totally random

P - Invent a random AU for any fandom (we always need more ideas)

The fact that we don’t have a pride and prejudice AU for brax/romana yet is driving me insane

Q - A ship you’ve abandoned and why

I’ve mentioned it before but doctor/river, don’t really remember why idk I just don’t vibe with it anymore. But also because thoschei has so many different pairings in 1 ship that I don’t really feel the need to ship them with anyone else lol

R - A pairing you ship that you don’t think anyone else ships

GOD I NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT’S SO SPECIFIC ok fellow academy era stans gather around if you have read Divided Loyalties there’s a scene where it SHOWS that Magnus had a crush on Ushas. And NO ONE HAS EVER TALKED ABOUT THEM and the power couple they would’ve made. I write them into all my fanfics in hopes of making other people ship them but I’ve had no success so far

S - Show us an example of your personal headcanon (prompts optional but encouraged)

The Master is a big fan of musicals and in the 77 years he spent on earth he watched every single one ever. I’m gonna be bold and say that when he was young, still Koschei, he was an artist, and thought about dropping everything to become an actor on Gallifrey. Time Lords do appreciate art, and have their own plays, but it’s just the same old and boring ones the young people don’t care about. The Master then created a shocking performance that was way ahead of its time and the older Time Lords were so appalled they banned him from writing and presenting plays and that’s his villain origin story

T - Do you have any hard and fast headcanons that you will die defending, about anything at all (gender identity, sexual or romantic orientation, extended family, sexual preferences like top/bottom/switch, relationship with poetry, seriously anything)

1) The Doctor and the Master married on Gallifrey and the entire show is just them having the most litigious divorce in the universe (still isn’t final because the Master has killed all the judges); 2) Ushas/The Rani is ace; 3) The Deca was a 10 people polyamorous relationship; 4) Romana and Livia were girlfriends at the Academy and they hate each other now because the break up was baad; 5) Romana writes fanfiction; 6) Romana/Leela had a thing in Davidia I KNOW it; 7) Leela pegs Narvin; 8) Brax has a life-size painting of Romana at his collection or a statue or smth; 9) Brax’s dream in Reborn is actually REAL and he’s married to Romana, Leela and Narvin all at the same time

U - 5 favorite characters from 5 different fandoms

I don’t even think I’m in 5 fandoms but

Doctor Who: The Master, The Doctor, Romana, Leela, Sarah Jane, Bill (this was the hardest thing ever)

The X-Files: Mulder, Scully, Monica, and can I add The Lone Gunmen too?

Star Wars: Leia, Obi-Wan, Finn, Poe Dameron and honorable mention to Din Djarin and Grogu

Hannibal: Hannibal, Will, Bev, Alana, Chiyoh

V - 3 OTPs from 3 different fandoms

That’s hard

Doctor Who: thoschei ofc, gallifrey ot4.......... uuhh as you can see i don’t ship many pairings in the show

The X-Files: Mulder and Scully. And whatever Scully and Monica had going on because they definitively flirted

Star Wars: Poe/Finn, Han/Leia, whatever Han/Lando had going on too

W - 5 favorite ships and 5 kinks you like best for said ships

WHATVASHAJSKAJSA ok this is a little embarassing but I don’t have a lot of kinks for many ships... I guess I have some for thoschei like, choking, whipping, blindfolds/gagging, bondage, begging, biting, sem-public, phone sex, dirty talk, body worship, praise kink, etc. Alright alright I know it’s a lot but in my defense they've shown half of these on the show

X - top 5-10 characters who are yoUR PRECIOUS BABIES AND YOU WILL DIE DEFENDING THEM

The Master, Romana, Leela, Brax, Narvin, Bill Potts, Martha Jones, Sarah Jane, Donna Noble, Lucie Miller. No particular order for most of them but the Master is my precious baby and I will die for this mf

Y - What are your secondhand fandoms (fandoms you aren’t in personally but are tangentially familiar with because your friends/people on your dash are in them)

Not many, usually the people I follow are in the same fandoms as I am but I’ve seen some mutuals reblog some Hadestown stuff which is a play that I’ve never seen but definitively would because the protagonists look hot 

Z - Just ramble about something fan-related, go go go (prompts optional but encouraged)

I DON’T KNOW WHAT DOES IT MEAN

it took me three hours to do this but it was fun!! thank you bb <3

[black-clover-incorrect-quotes]

A-Z, go!

See, that’s why I should read all the asks before jumping in and starting answering some.... okay sorry, I’ll just ignore the ones I already replied to ;_;

A - Ships that you currently like a lot. I’m not a big shipper, but here’s something from my most recent fandoms and something that I liked for years: Jerza (Fairy Tail) and Royai (Fma), IkkaYumi (Bleach they are canon don’t @ me), ObaMitsu (Demon Slayer, had to google this. Mostly because I read the last chapter a couple of days ago and I’m still in shock), tonight I was reminded of a ship I used to have a long time ago and it’s not anime, LeoxPiper (PJO)

B - A pairing–platonic, romantic or sexual–that you initially didn’t consider, but someone changed your mind. RenRuki (Bleach), to some extent. I usually don’t change my mind on these things, so, even if I don’t ship it, I had to admit they have a cute potential. 

C - A ship you have never liked and probably never will. Every ship involving the main character: NaLu, NaruSaku (and to some extent NaruHIna), Eren and Levi or Eren and Mikasa. The list goes on, if it’s the main character, then I probably dislike the ship. 

D - A pairing you wish you liked but just can’t. Again, the canon endgame ship for the main character. I would enjoy the canon contenent and my fandom experience a lot more if I did. 

E - Have you added anything cracky/hilarious to your fandom? If so, what? I think you’d have to be rather tumblr-famous to do something like that. 

F - What’s the longest you’ve ever been in a fandom? Three-four years. I always go back to Hetalia to roleplay because it’s just so easy to roleplay this fandom, so I never really leave, I always have it tagged on Omegle LoL

G - Have you ever had an OTP? If so, do you remember your first one? Who was in it? I don’t know? Probably in my YA reading days, but I can’t remember which was my first OTP. If I had to pick a wild guess, probably something in Percy Jackson, like LukexThalia, but I’m not sure, it’s been a long time ago. 

H - What is your favorite source text for fandom stuff (e.g., TV shows, movies, books, anime, Western animation, etc.)? Anime and, most recently, manga. But it depends on what it’s easier to find, to be honest. Since I depend a lot on subs (because I can’t always understand spoken english with ease) I found that you can always count on Anime to be subbed, so it’s more a matter of convinence than preference. 

I - Has Tumblr caused you to stop liking any fandoms, if so, which and why? I have been active on Tumblr for a short while, but the fanbase made me dislike Supernatural and I’m still enjoying Bleach because I tend to stay away from the fans (guess what they have in common? Crazy and angry shippers)

J - Name a fandom you didn’t think about until you saw it all over Tumblr. The most recent is Demon Slayer and even Haikyuu to some extent. I didn’t know they were a thing until I saw post on tumblr. But I easily give in to what’s popular and sometimes I come to regret my decision (Like watching Game of Thrones). 

M - Name a character that you’d like to have for a friend. There’s lots of them!!! In Black Clover, I’d want to be friends with Leopold. 

N - Name three things you wish you saw more or in your main fandom. In Black Clover I’m pretty satisfied with what I see. In the show I’d like to see more of my faves. That goes for Tumblr as well. And ships, there’s not a lot of canon ships in Black Clover.

O - Choose a song at random. Which ship or character does it remind you of? From my YouTube Mix randomized, God was Never on Your Side (Mothorhead). If you are familiar with the show, that’s really a no-brainer because it played as he died: Jack from Supernatural.

Q - A fandom you’ve abandoned and why. I’ve abandoned a lot. I’ll go with Attack on Titan. The fanbase was rather unpleasant and the plot was going in a weird and boring direction. The same problem with the plot drove me away from Blue Exorcist.

R - Which friendship/platonic relationship is your favorite in fandom?These questions are the worst because there’s so many to chose from. Anything that falls under the ‘found family’ trope tbh.

S - Show us an example of your personal headcanon (prompts optional but encouraged). If only I had imagination. An headcanon of mine is that Luck is Charlotte’s little brother. 

T - Do you have any hard and fast headcanons that you will die defending? Not really? If ships count as headcanon, I’d say that Ikkaku and Yumichika from Bleach are a couple. I also had another in Bleach that was less of an headcanon and more of a ‘I thought this was canon until the manga explained it differently but I like my idea better because it makes more sense’ that is that Rukia, from Bleach, is actually Byakuya and Hisana’s child. I don’t think I have enough room to write my it in details and why I think it makes sense though lol

U - Three favorite characters from three different fandoms, and why they’re your favorites. Fuegoleon. Do I really need to explain this? Duh.  And the last two recent things I read: Byakuya from Bleach. I loved him from the get-go, there’s not really a reason. And from Demon Slayer, Rengoku. I don’t think I can say much about him because the anime still has to cover his arc, but who read the Infinity Train Arc knows. Also, he reminds me a little of Fueggy with his Fire Breathing, he’s kind of a captain (a Pillar) and he motivates everyone.

V - Which character do you relate to most? Lazy characters like Shikamaru or awakard like Kenma.

W - A trope which you are virtually certain to hate in any fandom. Main character slowly succumbing to the dark power he has inside (Naruto - Nine Tails, Natsu - END, Eren - the crack he’s smoking apparenty, Asta - the Demon, Meliodas - his demon power, Also Sasuke -cursed mark even though he isn’t the main character) it’s so overused. When I thought KnY was going in this direction, I was about to drop it - but luckly it didn’t, it was a surprise since it was all about demons but a welcome one. 

Y - What are your secondhand fandoms (i.e., fandoms you aren’t in personally but are tangentially familiar with because your friends/people on your dash are in them)? Boku no Hero. I watched only a bit (up to when Bakugo gets taken to the Villans’ hideout I think?). it seems interesting, but I can’t deal with ongoing series (Black Clover is enoguh for the time being).

Z - Just ramble about something fan-related, go go go! Alright this is going to be controversial but sometimes your ships don’t get canon, get over it. I’m so tired of borderline delusional people point out how two characters were so *made for each other* and the author is either 1) homophobic 2) a bad writer (even though y’all liked his writing until the last chapter? Hmmm) 3) clearly manipulated by the editors, he wanted to make X ship canon!!!. And fans really need to stop bashing characters that “get in the way” of their OTP. It’s just pathetic. At the least lose with dignity. 

#ask

[olliya]

How popular is MadaSaku in context of other Madara’s and Sakura’s ships? Part 2

@madasakuweek​

I am honestly shocked how many people liked my ship popularity analysis. Well, prepared for the second part - Fanfiction.net. It’s even longer!!! But imo more interesting.

Finding the popularity of ships on ff.net is both easier and more complicated, depending how do you approach the problem.

Let’s break up the task into two parts.

Approach 1

FF.net has a Pairing Option that was introduced in October 2013. This function makes the names of characters appear in square bracket, for example: [Madara U., Sakura H.] indicating that those characters form a romantic pair in a given fic.

When using Filters (Figure 1.a.) after choosing the character of interest, one can tick the Pairing Option, and then browse (using up and down arrows) through all the characters of the fandom. The number of fics tagged with Pairing Option between the character of interest (here: Madara) and every character B (here: Sakura) appear on the bottom of the panel (Figure 1.b.).

Data gathered through browsing through all of the Naruto characters with Pairing Option On give unequivocal results. The only limitations of this method is the relatively late introduction time point of Pairing Option (introduced in 2013, while Naruto started publishing in 1999), and sometimes peculiar definitions of “Characters” on ff.net (example: Naruko as a separate character, “Team 7” as a “Character”).

Results for Madara and Sakura are presented below (Figures 2. and 3.) For clarity, ships with four or more fics are shown for Madara. In case of Sakura, all the ships with >4 fics in a graph would blur the picture. Therefore, her Top 20 ships are presented in Figure 3., and the rest is summarized in the Table 1. The analysis was performed on 22.10.2019.

However, ff.net was launched on 15.10.1998 (which precedes publication of Naruto by one year) so there is a 14 year-worth of fic creation when the Pairing Option wasn’t available. To get the complete overview of ship popularity it is necessary to include the body of work created in the earlier years of ff.net.

This issue was addressed through Approach 2.

Approach 2

During the period of 1998-2013 fics were labelled with ship names in the summaries, and readers would look for ships of interest typing ship name into the search box. During those times certain conventional phrases were coined for the ships, and putting those in the summary allowed potential readers to find the story. Searching ff.net using selected phrases and collecting the corresponding fic numbers gives insight into those part of fanworks. Employment of search engine is shown in Figure 4. on the example of phrase “madasaku”.

I performed searches for common ships, basing the list on the ships with 4 or more fics as found using Pairing Option (see: section above).

I searched for the phrases that were and still are still commonly used ship names in Naruto fandom.

In general, there are three common ways to indicate a ship:

a)      Merger of names, usually using first two syllables of both names, usually (but not always) with male name being first part of the phrase. Example: madasaku, and (less commonly used) sakumada. For the M/M and F/F couples, both orders are used, and it is impossible to predict which form is more common. Example: sakuhina and hinasaku would be used with similar frequency.

In case of names composed of two syllables or shorter, one syllable is often used.

b)     Name_1xName_2 – complete names of characters separated by letter “x”, without spaces in between. There is no strict preference as to which name goes first more frequently, i.e. sakuraxmadara is equally plausible as madaraxsakura.

c)      A combination of the above, i.e. shortened versions of names connected with an “x”, without spaces (example: madaxsaku)

Search engine of ff.net is case-insensitive, i.e. searching for “madasaku” will bring the same results as searching for “Madasaku” and “MadaSaku” (thank gods).

Other possible naming convention, even if there are/were used, aren’t correctly recognized by the search engine of ff.net. If there are spaces between the words of the phrase (example: “Madara x Sakura”) the search results in all fics containing words “Madara”, “x” and “Sakura” in summary, but not necessary together. Separating character names with slash “/”, even without usage of spaces (example: “Madara/Sakura”) results in list of fic containing “Madara” and “Sakura”, not necessary together (slash symbol gets ignored).

Therefore, the ship names of the kinds described above weren’t included in this analysis.

Other potential ship names variations (using “*”, using “&”, and surely a multitude of others variants that I couldn’t think of) were not included due to their relative infrequency (and limits to capacity and imagination).

For every ship included in the results of Approach 1 (total 43 searches for Sakura’s ships, and 12 searches for Madara’s ships), I searched for the following phrases (on example of MadaSaku ship):

madasaku

sakumada 

madaraxsakura 

sakuraxmadara 

madaxsaku 

sakuxmada

Certain ship names don’t follow the usual rules and/ or required special treatment. For example, for the ship Gaara/Haruno Sakura the common names merger is GaaSaku (and not GaaraSaku). Tsunade/ Haruno Sakura is equally often (or rarely, because it is very rare) abbreviated to TsuSaku and Tsunasaku. Fics tagged with TobiSaku name merger may mean Senju Tobirama/Haruno Sakura as well as Tobi (Obito’s persona)/Haruno Sakura – in this case, fics were manually inspected, and assigned to correct categories. Ship with Naruko (which scored relatively high in Pairing Option analysis), was not really possible to assess, because the merger name “narusaku” is identical for the merger of Uzumaki Naruto/Haruno Sakura (for good reasons).

All the fics for given pair were summed up (i.e. for Uchiha Madara/Haruno Sakura ship the fic numbers retrieved through searches for “madasaku”, “sakumada”, “madaraxsakura”, “sakuraxmadara”, “madaxsaku” and “sakuxmada” were added together).

Results for Madara and Sakura are presented below (Figures 5. and 6.). In case of Sakura, including all the examined ships in a graph would blur the picture. Therefore, her Top 20 ships are presented in Figure 6., and the rest is summarized in the Table 2. The analysis was performed on 22.10.2019.

This list presented in Table 2 is not a comprehensive one. There are certainly more ships with <10 fics that were not included. One prominent, detected example is Chōji, who has 13 fics in as a ship partner of Sakura, but was not included in Table 2 because according to the Pairing Option he had no fics with Sakura.

 Limitations of the method

Employed method depends on performing six independent searches and summing up the numbers from those searches. A fic tagged with more than one of the searched phrases will be counted multiple times. For example: if a fic contained phrases “MadaSaku” and “MadaraxSakura” in its summary, it was counted twice. In extreme case, one fic would generate six data points: one real, and five false.

Nevertheless, since the same treatment was applied to all the pairings, the errors should be distributed in the same way across all the ships. Therefore, even if the numerical values obtained through this analysis don’t necessarily correspond to reality, the results should reflect respective relations between the ships (i.e. “ranking” should be correct). This assumption is true however only if all the subdivisions of the fandom follow the same customs and tagging etiquette. I.e. if creators writing for SasuSaku followed a habit of including only one Ship Name in their summaries, while creators of MadaSaku tended to include multiple Ship Names, then my method of analysis would overestimate the significance of MadaSaku ship. However, I am not aware of such trends existing in Naruto fandom.

Additionally, Ship Name tagging system allows for tagging infinite number of ships in one fic, therefore certain fics have been counted multiple times.

 Discussion

When considering fics tagged with Pairing Option, Sakura ranks as Madara’s second most popular ship partner, after Hashirama and before Tobirama. As on AO3, it is telling that a relatively “exotic” pairing with OC ranks 4th among Madara’s ships.

Madara is the 9th most popular ship partner of Sakura. Comparing and contrasting Sakura’s data between ff.net and AO3 would be an interesting analysis in its own right, but here I will only point out the switch of positions between Naruto and Kakashi as Sakura’s ship partners (Naruto is a strong 2nd on ff.net, while Kakashi takes this position on AO3); and relatively low, 7th place of Ino (strong 4th on AO3).

When taking into account data gathered though Ship Names Searches, Sakura ranks as Madara’s 2nd most popular ship partner (after Hashirama and before OC).

Madara, on the other hand is Sakura’s 15th most popular ship partner. Since Ship Names Searches results are mostly derived from fics published in earlier years in Naruto fandom, his lower place can be explained by his very late appearance in the franchise (on-panel in February 2008 - almost 9 years after Naruto started publishing and in person in the story in October 2011 - 12 years after begin of publishing).

Data gathered in this analysis present a unique opportunity for looking into the development of ship popularity over time.

Results from Pairing Option reflect mostly the state of fandom in years 2013-2019, while the results from Ship Names Search show the status from the earlier years. The exact division is however somewhat blurred as some fics published before October 2013 has been retroactively tagged using Pairing Option (even if the majority of older fics remain untagged). The reverse is also true – many fics published after introduction of Pairing Option, even as recently as end of 2019, fail to use it. Additionally, many fics are tagged using both systems: the Pairing Option and Ship Name in summary.

Nevertheless one can tentatively regard Pairing Option results as “new”, or “current” ones, while the ones coming from the Ship Names Searches as “older” ones.

Figure 7. presents position changes in Top 12 Madara’s ships. Ranking from Pairing Option analysis was regarded as current and compared to the “older” ranking composed from all the fics tagged with Ship Names (regardless their publishing date). A positive value in the Figure 7. indicates a gain of popularity, for example: Tobirama gained 2 positions among Madara’s ships when comparing the “current” and “older” results.

This analysis reveals that certain ships (with Tobirama, Naruto and Hinata) gained, while ships with OC and Itachi lost on popularity. Dramatic loss of Itachi ship popularity is very interesting and one can speculated that it could be caused by Tobi/Obito reveal.

The same analysis was performed for Sakura’s ships and is presented in Figure 8.

Inspecting changes in Sakura ships’ rankings allows for several interesting observations. Minato, Shisui, Madara and Sasori are among greatest winners. It is symptomatic that all, except Sasori, are characters that appeared (or became relevant) later during the franchise. Among the characters losing in popularity as Sakura’s ship partners are members of Konoha Eleven (Lee, Kiba, Sai, Neji), an Akatsuki member (Deidara) and OC. It should also be noted that five top positions (Sasuke, Naruto, Kakashi, Itachi and Gaara) remained unchanged.

To further examine the “current” and “older” state of fandom, upon harvesting Ship Names data I sorted the fics according to publication date and took note of how many fics were published before and how many after 01.10.2013 (approximate date of introduction of Pairing Option tool).

If one repeats the analysis from Figures 7. and 8. considering only fics published before 01.10.2013 as “older” ones, the following pictures appears (Figure 9. and 10.):

Using this definition of “older” fics (i.e. fics tagged with Ship Names that were published until October 2013), the gain of popularity of Tobirama ship becomes even mor evident (gain of 7 positions). Ships with Itachi (as in the previous analysis) and Sasuke (undetected in the previous analysis) lost on popularity.

Sakura ships’ dynamics according to this definition of “older” fics show even more pronounced position gains of Minato and Shisui, but otherwise similar trends to previous analysis.

Analysis of ship popularity on ff.net is a challenging one, but since this platform was, and still is main archive for Naruto fandom (407 thousands fics vs 49 thousand on AO3) it is important to address this issue even if methodology is far from perfect.

I am open to all the comments, suggestions and hints, as the data collection was a major effort and I’m sure that this data can be used in many other different ways.

#madasaku #multisaku #fandom statistics #madasakuweekend2019 #naruto stats