#(also severus extends the rivarly to all james' best friends since severus knows james is so close to them. and he just doesn't like them)

[enbysiriusblack]

“severus fights james and his friends because he wants to control/be with lily and he thinks james is in the way of that, even though lily just doesn't like him in that way. and james fights severus because severus is picking a fight with him/severus is bigoted. “

Hey so I was scrolling through the tl ans saw you responding to an ask. I totally agree with you that Lily is more of an important character on most of ur points. But i saw this and was genuinely wondering how you got that from the books? This is genuinely not to attack you or be rude. But I saw the canon completely differently than how you have interpreted it, and I do wonder where you get that point from? Specifically that Severus is the one starting things while James is only fighting back? And that Severus wants to control Lily?

Once again this is not me trying to be rude, and I also do not hate James. But Jkr said that James went after Severus mostly because of his connection to Lily. And in the only scene we really see, its James and Sirius going after Severus first while he was sitting under a tree by himself. I wouldn’t call two vs one a rivalry. And I wouldn’t call that Severus going after James.

Once again genuinely curious bc it seems to be a popular notion and I truly dont know where ppl are getting it from.

the moment we see james and sirius going after severus is what i meant with james pocking on severus for sirius (i mentioned that in the post)

Sirius stared around at the students milling over the grass, looking rather haughty and bored...

...'This'll liven you up, Padfoot,' Said James quietly, 'Look who it is'

James is very happily playing with his snitch, he only approaches Severus because Sirius is bored and wants something fun to do (Sirius finds fights fun- i mean he's a british teenager with family issues. it'd be surprising if he didn't find fights fun, and everyone found fights fun at school)

i didn't mean this specific scene. but, for instance, severus invented the sectumsempra curse. which is like,, very dark and torture-y. i can imagine him using it on james or his friends (without knowing how bad the spell is, like harry does with draco). i do think he wouldn't have used it knowing how bad it was, but based on being a kid/teenager with people i hate and have ongoing drama with and having drawn their gravestones and dead bodies (i also have a neighbour kid that recently did that exact thing so i'm assuming imagining the classmates you hate dying as a kid/teen is a fairly common experience), i can very much imagine severus would have made the curse with james in mind. and i think he does use a version of it in this scene, where he gashes james' face so deeply his robes splatter with blood.

also, as i said in that post, i don't think when we see people's memories, it is a completely true viewing of the past. i think it's like how memories are- biased and wavering over time. and since this is severus' memory, i wouldn't take it wholly to heart (but that is more my hc, and i don't think jkr wrote legilimency to be how actual memories work)

continuing on this actual scene (i'm reading it rn and i'm trying to focus on answering your ask but i can't help giggling at the amount of times sirius is called handsome, every line is like "sirius handsomely turned to snape", "sirius head turned, handsomely" /j) i sorts get what you mean with james picking a fight with severus because of lily, but it seems to be more for sirius' entertainment in this scene. lily asks him what severus has done to him, and james just says it's the dact he exists- which does show james doesn't really have a reason for this particular interaction, and it was purely for sirius. but he does say he'll stop if lily goes out with him- making it seem as if he is fighting with severus for lily. but i honestly think that line was more james just trying to wind her up- he knows she'll say no. james acts, during this scene, like a standup comedy act. every sentence seems to intentionally said to receive a specific reaction from his audience (his classmates). the line gives me the same vibe as a heckler at a comedy act, and the comedian interacting back with them.

one of the spells james uses against severus (where he dangles him upside down) is in severus' book of spells that he invented. so for james to know that, it means severus must have used it in the past (not sure if it was canon or not about that spell being a trend at this time or not), but severus would have used it on james or his friends previously for james to know the spell.

then what i said about severus picking a fight with james for lily, and james picking a fight with severus because of severus being bigoted/already picking a fight with him. this comes from when harry goes to remus and sirius after seeing severus' memory.

"I think James was everything Snape wanted to be... And Snape was just this little oddball who was up to the eyes in the dark arts, and James- whatever else he may have appeared to you, Harry- always hated the dark arts."

"Snape was a special case. I mean, he never lost an opportunity to curse James, so you couldn't really expect him to take that lying down, could you?"

sirius says severus picked a fight with james because james got what severus wanted (lily, but also academic validation, with james being naturally talented, which i should have mentioned in the previous post, but i was focusing on lily, not james and severus). sirius then says james picked a fight with severus because of severus' interest in dark magic (and we do see james getting furious when severus calls lily a 'mudblood', james was about to stop before severus said that). and then remus says james, in later years, only went after severus because severus was still going after him.

i didn't mean severus was starting things- more that severus was continuing things. i know they argued when they first met about houses, and i think lily then being put in gryffindor after that argument infuriated severus and caused him to see james as a threat, whilst james found it humorous and would likely mock severus for losing his best friend to gryffindor, which then their rivalry escalated from there and continued because severus was into lily and because james didn't like how severus was into dark arts/severus was already going after him and his friends.

about severus controlling lily. most of what we see of their friendship is very much severus trying to control lily. he tells her she better be in slytherin, he tells her not to listen to petunia because she's just a muggle (this could just be trying to comfort a friend, of course, but the insinuation that lily shouldn't listen to her because she's a muggle, not because she's just jealous and bitter is very weird), lily tries to get severus to stop hanging out with bigoted people that hurt her friends and severus just complains about james and remus, turning the subject to what 'she's doing wrong' instead of actually listening to her, he threatens to sleep outside gryffindor tower unless lily comes to see him, he asks for only lily's life to be spared (not caring if james or even harry, a 1 yr old, die). seems pretty controlling to me.

#with what you said about 2v1 not being a rivalry. i think it was more just james v severus #but sirius is so close to james. his rivarly is their rivarly and all #(also severus extends the rivarly to all james' best friends since severus knows james is so close to them. and he just doesn't like them) #btw anon!! a lot of marauder stuff is more headcanons and we tend to shift and change canon for our own perceptions #but i tried to focus on canon for this (and that other post) #also hope i didn't seem rude <3 thank you for the ask #marauders era #marauders #james potter #anon ask #anti severus snape