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this is pmat/hiiragi7 on an alt account - I don't like to talk about trauma on the other blog since it's mostly for long posts about syscourse, ableism, racism, intersexism, etc.

I might make another reply where I get into the actual discussion bit, this one is just trauma dumping. You don't have to read it, it is incredibly heavy - but you're absolutely not alone. We were surrounded by animal abuse growing up and it was incredibly traumatic.

Animal abuse was present throughout my entire childhood. Massive tw here for animal abuse, severe neglect, extreme child abuse, animal fighting, eating pets, and animal death/murder.

Both my bio mom and my stepmom abused their animals, by hitting, kicking, throwing things and chasing, etc. My bio mom's house was also such a poor environment for the animals that the dogs were always fighting, and they would very often injure or kill each other - My bio mom would just adopt more dogs when the last ones died and the cycle would continue. As a kid, I always thought about how it reminded me of a dog fighting ring. It was really scary, and my bio mom refused to take them to the vet when they got hurt.

We had other animals, too, and the dogs would go after them (and kill them). I was the one who had to clean up the bodies. My mother always told me to throw them in the trash, which I fought her really hard about - They were my pets, I wanted them properly buried. If I wanted them to be buried, though, I had to do it entirely on my own, nobody would help me with it. I still tried anyway, each time it happened, even though my little kid arms weren't really strong enough, and I didn't even get a shovel - I had to use my hands.

I would often come home from school and find my pets dead, more often than not in a very gory way. It was horrible.

We also had a cat, who was so tormented by the dogs that her only safe place was on top of my bed (a bunk bed), which meant she also used the bathroom there. My bed was always covered in cat pee and feces and vomit, and nobody helped me clean it or do anything about it. I was single-digits in age.

Our pets also often died of neglect if the dogs didn't get to them first. As kids my siblings and I were solely in charge of feeding and watering the animals and cleaning up their waste, which we did our best at - But conditions that were out of our control, such as the pets being kept outside in freezing or burning hot weather or unexpected illness or not having enough space, were also blamed on us even though we as small children could not have done anything about it. I was told that if I wanted my pet rabbits to have enough space to do more than just turn around, I would have to build them a hutch myself with no tools or support. I tried really hard, digging holes with my hands for the cement brick foundation and pulling goatheads out of my skin while I worked, but in the end I couldn't manage to do it. My pet rabbits both died suddenly overnight around my birthday.

Growing up, I never had a pet die of natural causes. My animals always died too young.

This was all incredibly traumatic, and is a part of why we formed so many parts with animalistic traits. For years we had very severe flashbacks and nightmares related to this abuse.

My bio mom also used the animals to threaten me quite a lot. If you don't do this or that, I'll make xyz pet into a stew. I'll give abc pet away if you don't listen. So on. My parents did also actually kill several of my pets in front of me and ate them, which I don't want to talk much about.

We also as a child made an attempt to contact animal control after being encouraged and supported by our friends to do so, but animal control did nothing and we were punished severely for it.

Honestly, in all my time of being on DID tumblr and discords, I don't think I've ever really seen people talk about growing up in an environment where animal abuse was present and thats not me criticizing it, shits hard, but I feel there is so little talk about how depressingly futile it is to grow up watching animals get screwed over and hurt on the regular.

Growing up surrounded by animal abuse is very traumatic and yet I dont see it talked about in many trauma spaces and I only really now noticed it.

It genuinely makes me wonder why and sometimes makes me wonder if significant animal abuse is just... somehow not that common?

Input and discussion is welcome and if anyone is comfortable sharing, does anyone else out there have trauma surrounding animal abuse? Cause Im genuinely wondering if its not common or if its just not talked about

#tw animal abuse #animal abuse tw #animal abuse #tw animal death #animal death

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i have hundreds of scars, yet i cannot tell you where most of them came from.

when i see them, all i know is that i was hurt, sometimes badly, at some point in time, somewhere, very long ago.

the how, who, and why all escape me.

my entire childhood history is recorded on my skin, yet it is in a language i cannot read.

#ramcoa #ritual abuse #didosdd #tbmc #trauma #traumagenic

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god im so sorry but i fucking hate 50% of this community. some of you guys are so fucking focused on gatekeeping people and starting discourse instead of helping anyone in our community, or spreading awareness, or spreading accurate information. i dont care about your ""ramcoa hot takes"" shut the fuck up this is a literal trauma survivor community. grow up. i hate that a survivor community i share and have to interact with for useful information is overrun with immature, discourse-focused assholes who spread misinformation cause they want to gatekeep other survivors and fakeclaim.

#ramcoa

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how ironic it is,

half of those who abused me

were those who preached "love thy neighbor"

#vent #religious abuse #religious trauma

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vent, denial, vague talk of organized abuse

the denial is bad recently. i feel like it can't be as bad as i remember, or couldn't be as organized as i remember, because i got out. my abusers had connections, if they wanted to keep me i'm sure they could have. but they didn't.

i don't know the exacts of how contact ended other than it wasn't immediate or sudden. it was gradual, and things probably didn't cut off completely until i moved to another state for highschool.

though, writing this out, i think it's less that i don't believe my memories and more that i don't understand why i was let go, and why it was so easy to walk away. it was such an extensive part of my life - school, home, after school handling, weekend trips, birthday parties, camps over the summer, they were involved in every part of my life from a very young age. why all the effort just to stop caring when i got older? was it related to the money? was i not profitable anymore? were my symptoms too severe, was it not worth it anymore? was it something my parents did or didn't do? what happened?

i just don't know. and the worst part of it is that some part of me feels abandoned.

[any responses fine, including similar experiences]

#ramcoa #tbmc #ritual abuse #didosdd #trauma #traumagenic #vent #organized abuse

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adding on, the way I view this for my own system (since I've also experienced this) is that programming is at the end of the day another kind of trauma, and that trauma can be shuffled around just like "standard" trauma can be when splits happen in a non-programmed system, which can lead to newer splits presenting with old trauma responses (programming).

Can alters who’ve formed after you’re out/away from of the abuse still be programmed alters?

This is more of a tricky gray area but I would say yes for a variety of reasons. I don't have anything that particularly says it does for certain as a source but I do have my own experiences to go on.

If you have a lot of programming there can at times be system wide programming and it can seep into other alters- additionally in our case the majority of time we "split" a new alter is because of actually just having a lot of fragments fuse together. Which creates alters for us. These alters are far more likely to be programmed because of the many many programmed fragments. I imagine it can be different for others but yeah.

However I do also want to say that a lot of programmed alters will be hidden until much further out into recovery so it is possible that is contributing.

#ramcoa #tbmc

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something that i really need people to understand is that when you treat programming and ramcoa like a topic that should never ever ever be spoken about or looked into under any context because it's dangerous, you feed into what our abusers told us - that our memories are dangerous and will kill us.

yes, many groups do program self-destruct or recontact programs when memories are remembered or spoken about. this is important to mention. but just saying "looking into or talking about programming/ramcoa is dangerous" does not explain that. explain the full thing, say it is because many groups construct programs to prevent remembering or talking about the abuse, and for god's sake never say "it is too dangerous to ever look into ramcoa period". encourage people to have a support system and coping methods, and let them know it's a good idea to step back from research if they start feeling off physically or emotionally, but stop saying we are incapable of safely looking into the topic at all. it just reinforces what many survivors were told by their abusers and can honestly be far more triggering programs-wise than anything else.

#ramcoa #ritual abuse #didosdd #trauma #traumagenic #tbmc #syscourse

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if this is about my post, I don't see where in it i said consent wasn't important?

i am against ramcoa topics being shoved into the shadows because people consider them too taboo to even mention because people in the system community think that even thinking about the term ramcoa will cause a survivor to kill themselves. i am against not being given a choice when it comes to the ability to speak about my experiences and trauma when non-ramcoa survivors can. i even said that it's okay to ask people to censor certain discussions or topics if they're graphic. i never said anybody should be forced to interact with discussions of ramcoa.

my post was about people refusing to touch ramcoa at all because of people spreading the idea that it's too dangerous. i never said it was safe for everyone or that it wasn't dangerous for some. i even tried to make a point that it was good to encourage people to have solid coping skills and support systems before looking into ramcoa. i never said anybody should jump into it when they aren't ready.

my post was about community issues and you seem to have taken it really personally?

Please stop assuming that everyone is as far along in their healing journey as you are

Just because you're comfortable approaching and discussing topics publically and openly, doesn't mean everyone else is, or that they even have access to memories of different traumas

Be mindful that you are capable of triggering others, and the effects of that trigger can range from helpful and productive to downright dangerous, depending on a person's situation

Remember that in order to avoid accidentally triggering others, people need to be able to consent to seeing and discussing heavier topics

This means that some topics may be limited to certain tags or channels, and maybe even organized by severity of potentially triggering information

This is a compromise meant to allow people the choice to participate and to give everyone the ability to navigate different spaces safely, while still allowing others a space where they can discuss topics in-depth without concern-- at that point, it's someone else's fault if they enter the space and become triggered

Just because you don't feel fragile doesn't mean that others, like myself, aren't currently feeling very goddamn fragile, and I would like the choice in what information I'm exposed to at this time

It's not always about silencing people, or using white gloves, sometimes it's just about consent in your own life, and letting people move at their own pace

There isn't a possible argument against this

Either you respect other trauma survivors and their right to approach potentially triggering topics in a comfortable, safe way, and acknowledge the harm you can cause by putting your own comfort first

Or you only care about yourself and think you're the centre of the universe and only you matter

There is no in-between

Everyone has a right to talk about anything they want

Not everyone wants to, or is ready, to be involved in those conversations

Making a space safe for both is not a bad thing

#syscourse

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to non-ramcoa survivors:

please stop treating us as fragile.

be mindful of things that may trigger ramcoa survivors, yes, but please do not spread the narrative that we will die or get seriously injured if you even breathe the word programming in our direction. we have survived a lot, we have survived torture.

encourage people questioning a ramcoa history to have coping methods and overall stability before looking into ramcoa, yes, but please stop saying we can never look into it because we will die and that it's so horrible to even read about that we will become traumatized by just reading about it. we have already been traumatized by things far worse than reading information on a website online.

be mindful of terminology that may be insensitive to ramcoa survivors, yes, but please do not police our language for us. it is not your place to do so, and it leads to spaces that question people on whether they're a ramcoa survivor or not in order to "make sure" they can use a word or a name or not, which is really invasive and potentially dangerous.

ask people to censor graphic in-depth talk of torture and programming, sure, but please do not silence survivors on our experiences. it really sucks when other people get to talk about their trauma and experiences and we do not, and have our experiences treated as too taboo to mention. it can also trigger silencing programs.

also, please stop making assumptions about what is more or less common in programming. the information online is not going to give you a complete enough overview of what programming involves for you to make generalized statements about what "most" programming looks like or what kinds of programs "almost always" are used, it really depends on the abuser group and as a community we keep most information offline or within private survivor circles.

a lot of this behavior has become extremely common in system spaces recently especially as more awareness of ramcoa becomes public, and it makes system spaces a lot less accessible for me and others.

#ramcoa #ritual abuse #didosdd #trauma #traumagenic #tbmc #syscourse

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for the love of god can y'all please learn what the word "cult" actually means and not just toss it around so carelessly

#syscourse #and stop making cult jokes. please. im begging you.

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Hi, programming by definition must be intentional however conditioning can cause symptoms that present very similarly to programming and isn't inherently intentional.

On intent, the abuser does not necessarily have to know or use the language that we in the RAMCOA community use (such as programming or DID) however they do at least have to know that if they abuse the victim in this specific way they can get the reaction they want out of them and can attach a cue to get that same reaction out of the victim every time the cue is used.

They don't have to know what "dissociated states" are, but they have to know that when the victim is in a state where they are very out of it the abuser can manipulate that state to get the reactions they want and implant instructions into the victim and attach cues. It's less about the specific language used by the abuser and more about the methods.

Again though, if you are sure it was not intentional then it isn't programming. Conditioning can be just as severe as programming though, they're just different methods of abuse.

Also, on "do you need to have gone through RAMCOA to be programmed", there may be cases where someone is programmed by an individual rather than an organization (for example if that individual was themselves a survivor of RAMCOA and knows how to program others) but it's less common than programming in organized settings.

So I’ve got some questions about programming since recently we saw the claim that you can be programmed without the abuser knowingly doing it. So first question can that happen? Where an abuser unknowingly programs an alter to be more compliant or susceptible with their abuse? Can you be programmed without ever having gone through any ramcoa abuse? I’m mainly asking these cause we’ve been noticing that we have a lot of symptoms that align with someone who has been programmed but we haven’t been through what has been described before (the ramcoa and mind control things) and today we found a post saying it can be unknowingly done by an abuser. And that just made us think that maybe we have been programmed it just wasn’t in the same way others experienced. Also if this is possible how do you know if you have been programmed in this way?

Please do go easy on us as we don’t handle conflict or rejection well at all.

#ramcoa #programming #tbmc

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i wish in plural spaces there was more of an understanding that some functionality in systems who have gone through ramcoa and programming is a bit different. what works as advice and guidance for non-ramcoa affected systems might be different for those who are ramcoa-affected.

while fronting triggers may be very helpful for non-ramcoa affected systems, they can be very detrimental for systems with ramcoa history.

while locking up persecutors is a gigantic no-no for non-ramcoa affected systems, this is sometimes necessary to keep a system with ramcoa history alive until treatment.

while fantastical and nonsensical beliefs are generally harmless for non-ramcoa affected system members, those same beliefs may carry very harmful, unwilling connotations for a system member sprung from ramcoa.

some things are just a little different, and need to be taken into account when interacting in spaces where survivors are present

#ramcoa #tbmc

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You were not a bad child. You were not difficult. You were not a burden. You were not evil.

You were a child.

It was the people around you who had a problem

And it was the people around you who were selfish enough to take their problems out on a child who was too small and helpless to defend themself.

It was the people around you who raised you to hate yourself.

And it's hard to believe when that awful environment is all you've known

But there are people out there who would be horrified at the way you've suffered

And there are people out there who would think you're amazing

It's not your fault you grew up in an abusive household

They're the ones who chose to mistreat you

And they were the ones who convinced you to blame yourself

And you deserve better

I promise you, you deserve better

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vent, tw vague delta talk

had some kind of delta program triggered for unknown reasons. really sucks hard.

i'm glad that i'm at a point in recovery where nothing was acted on, but scared for how strong the urges still are and how intense the imagery is. i feel like i can't be around other people physically right now and don't know what to do. fighting mystery triggers feels like fighting a monster i can't see. it's really distressing.

i just keep reminding myself that it doesn't have to happen again, and i have more control now. things are different now. but emotionally it's... harder.

it feels isolating, too. not a lot of abuse survivors talk about the ugly parts like this. it feels like there's a lot of pressure to be innocent and passive. a lot of days i feel like i'm the only one with these struggles. i know i'm not, but it feels like it.

i'll be okay. it's just hard.

#ramcoa #ramcoa vent #vent #ritual abuse

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Healing is also realizing you're going to have trauma reactions even after you decided to be healthy. That even after saying: "I want to heal, and rest, and I'm going to try to get better," you still let yourself reject help, struggle with trauma reactions, and unhealthy habits. That it's okay, and it's a part of healing. As long as you try to get better.

It's not going to happen immediately. If anything, at first, it's going to get way worse, horrible, even. And then better, and then bad again, and then you'll start getting relapses. And that's okay.

Relapse is a part of healing. Feeling all the bad stuff is a part of healing. Allowing yourself to be traumatized is a part of healing.

-host

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Deprogramming

🗝️🏷️ RAMCOA, details about unworking programs

The two biggest methods of deprogramming are loopholes and healing.

When we first started therapy, we couldn’t talk about anything other than basic pleasantries. It took a full round of psych ward inpatient and outpatient to acknowledge we had problems, and it was a bad time for all the intensive work they made us do.

We couldn’t say the words “trauma”, “abuse”, “neglect” even after internally recognizing them as present. The most we were ever able to get out was during the hour of school the minors had, with the limited-access desktop.

Typing was a loophole to don’t talk/don’t tell programming. Before system communication, we could sometimes speak to counselors by looking at all the ways they were too shitty to qualify as therapists.

Eventually we learned about the system, as in the front groups found out, and began to defy programs that heavily relied on phrasing. We weren’t “leaving our post”, but doing rounds and learning enemy patterns.

We started empathizing with alters we should never have met. Groups formed alliances and spoke to each other whenever we weren’t directly prohibited.

Some programs can be messed with depending on which alters are willing. A higher up might be able add or change conditions on a program, even remove activation protocols altogether. You can be creative, using a scrambler to intercept cues or a narco to knock out watchers and reporters.

The goal is to get everyone on the same side and agree to change for their own betterment, but there are times when dodging or rerouting is good enough.

Find creative alters to help plan. Organic splits might be devoid of programming to begin with. You can progress, it just takes time and cunning.

#ramcoa

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I really don’t like that people suggest everyone block RAMCOA tags. I know it’s heavy, I know some folks have to for their safety.

But some folks isn’t everyone.

When I tag RAMCOA, half the time all I did was mention that we survived it. I want to help filter it away if need be.

It becomes an issue when systems, who are our broader community, shove us under a rug for being ‘too much’. You should know better, singlets say the same of you.

Filtering all of those tags makes us invisible to you. We have to fight tooth and nail to be seen long enough for y’all to wonder if we exist, how dare you turn your back now.

You don’t have to read every post. I’m not asking you to trigger yourselves just for funsies. But we are still here, and we are here alongside you for every statement and decision you make for the disorder that we share. We aren’t a damn piñata to whack around with your blindfold on, we are your peers.

It could kill me to speak to you, unplug your fucking ears and listen.

#ramcoa #tbmc