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marzbyler · 2 years
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okayyy let me get this straight
this was letting someone know its okay if your gay and wanna come out
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but this wasn't!!!!
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marzbyler · 2 years
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Everyone's talking about how El isn't seeking comfort in Mike yet no one is talking about how Mike has never seeked comfort in El
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marzbyler · 2 years
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Mikes a little* salty about this...
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marzbyler · 2 years
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Sometimes it really hits me that we’re being called delusional for thinking Mike’s queer when his entire S4 arc is not being able to tell his girlfriend that he loves her until his gay best friend who’s in love with him begs him to in a life or death situation and he still struggles. Heteronormativity is one hell of a drug 😭
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marzbyler · 2 years
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more people have to see this
Mike: Technically, pickles are a fruit.
Jonathan [turning to look at Will with tears in his eyes]: You could pick literally ANYBODY else—
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marzbyler · 2 years
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WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT HOW "FIRST BURN" FITS SO PERFECTLY WITH STRANGER THINGS WTF!???
the one singing basically all the time would be el, and she would be singing ti mike
(when she says "i see how you look at my sister" we'd have to make sister into brother and well we all know the bowlcut boy she'd be referring to)
IF YALL WANT ME TO ELABORATE FURTHER I CAN
ALSO IF YOU DO ANYTHING INSPIRED BY THIS @ ME!! MY TIKTOK IS @willywolfhard !!!
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marzbyler · 2 years
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can someone give me the link to the byler slides i cant find em anymore
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marzbyler · 2 years
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Why Mike Referring to El as "Superman" is Byler Coded
*Note this theory has nothing to do with gender*
This is gonna be long. But don't worry. I think it's worth it.
El + Will
El and Will are intertwined. Interchangeable characters. Almost like doppelgängers or alter-egos. Yet sometimes behave or are placed in situations as if they are foils. Here's what I mean by this.
Season One
From the very beginning, Will and El are linked. When Will goes missing from Hawkins, El appears in the woods of Hawkins. Will is taken from the party and El is given to them (in a sense) when they find her. Immediately they are put in contrasting situations (foils) yet are interchangeable characters (I'll be calling this alter ego since doppelgänger isn't a completely accurate term
Physically she is smaller than the rest of the group, like Will, and she is also shy, like Will. She's not just shy because she doesn't know many words as we know from later seasons, when she knows a lot more English. Though she talks a bit more, she is still reserved with communication, just like Will.
And we can also see their characters mirror each other in the way other characters react to them. Not only just Mike but Lucas and Dustin eventually become protective over El just like they are with Will. Joyce becomes a motherly figure for El once she meets her. Not in season one but eventually Hopper becomes both of their father figures. The bullies make fun of her just like they make fun of Will. But from the very first few minutes, we understand Mike and Will have a special friendship compared to themselves with Lucas and Dustin. Will only tells Mike the truth about the dice. He doesn't lie. Mike's also very protective over and sensitive about Will. He notices he doesn't show up to school. He goes to his house to find him. He genuinely wants to help find Will, just like the others, but he's really adamant from the get go. He has a protector role. As soon as Will becomes lost and they find El in the woods, she takes Will's place in his absence. Immediately, Mike takes her under his wing and protects her. They have a thing about friends not lying, referencing the very first scene where Will doesn't lie to Mike, and only Mike. They both have a special relationship with Mike and it's emphasized by all the other similarities between Will and El. Such as...
Both of the characters being the only ones to have outwardly abusive, shitty fathers. Lonnie is a homophobic bully to his own son and would gladly exploit his death, while Brenner imprisoned El her entire childhood and did nothing but manipulate and exploit her. They both were taken from their mothers, who go crazy looking for them and never stop until they find them or are physically prevented from doing so :( They are the only characters alive who have been abducted, so they share a complex trauma that none of the others can relate to. Automatically this gives them a similar character profile starkly contrasted to the rest. They both feel a connection to the Upside Down and are the other characters main (only?) connections to the Upside Down.
Finally, in the final moments of season one, Will is brought back to the original Hawkins and El is taken into the Upside Down. Interchangeably. A transfer of their characters. The paralellism lol. And this brings us directly into season two.
But before that.
This next sentence is important, so pay attention. Essentially, the only major difference between Will and El is that Will has no powers. Remember this.
Season Two
So immediately in season two there is already another situational contrast between our mirrored characters; Will is now in Hawkins, placed back inside the party, and El was in the Upside Down until she was in the woods (just like Will except reversed) and then Hopper took her in (same person who saved Will), taken from the party. So Will is given back and El is taken. Almost like you can only have one because they're so interchangeable. So there are already many parallels.
**So many that I could stop here and make my Superman point honestly but this is too much fun. So if you want you can just skip to the end for the rest of the theory and it will still make sense. But I suggest reading the whole thing for it to really hit.**
Anyway. Now instead of El being the main character, Will is, at least in relation to the other party members. I would say both El and Will are the main main characters of s2, but regardless, Will takes her place as the main character in the party. So again, they switch places. Indicating they are interchangeable. Which is very important. Just like season one where the party members and eventually the other characters were protecting El from the bad men, they're now protecting Will from the Mind Flayer. He takes the place of protected and Mike is his main protector as far as the kids and teens. Not only that but there are tons of Byler moments in this season and they mirror how Mileven were in season one. If what's happening in a canon ship is happening in a supposed "unrequited" ship, then maybe that ship isn't so unrequited. If people even question it, maybe that ship isn't so canon.
But I digress. Lol
Just because Will and El are so alike doesn't mean they don't clash. That's why they're also foils, imo. And this is what we see in season three.
Season Three
So by clash I don't mean they don't like each other or have ill will for one and other. I mean the trope or role they hold in comparison to the other characters only has room for one, so it can create tension. Otherwise, they still pretty much mirror each other. Both are finally getting to grow up and not experience trauma (in the first few episodes). They are both recovering from their childhood being ripped apart by two heads of the same beast. El has girls night with Max before+after breaking up with Mike, Will has boys night before fighting with Mike. They're two peas in one pod that are constantly revolving around each other. The yin and yang. So similar but constantly moving in opposite directions. When one does this, the other does that. Mileven's breakup scene is funny, lighthearted, fun colored and sunny. Bylers fight is dreary, dark, mono toned color scheme, emotional acting and serious implications. El is seen having fun thinking of other things after the breakup. Will destroys Castle Byers, the place he felt was safe for him, which could even parallel when El destroys the cabin because Hopper won't let her leave/see Mike. They're in almost identical situations (lover/crush isn't reciprocating the feelings I have for them, or at least isn't showing it properly) yet their situations end up completely different. This mirrors their characters but also foils them. Regardless it creates a link between the two indicating they hold similar roles within the show. Other than Mike relations, while El is figuring out something is up with Billy/the Upside Down, Will knows the Mind Flayer is back. They both consistently represent the fantasy aspect and always facilitate that storyline. Now that they've finally been present together in a season, it becomes A LOT more obvious how their characters are so similar it causes clashes, which only further emphasizes how alike they are.
Let's just get into S4 because this is so long lol.
Season Four
El and Will becoming siblings heavily emphasizes them being each others alter-egos and the fact that El has no powers only maximizes this to the fullest. Essentially they're now the exact same character trope/profile whatever you want to call it. El is now being bullied for being "different" and because she no longer has powers. We all know Will has been bullied since the womb 💀 Without her powers, El has a very difficult time defending herself, and so does Will in general. She can't vocally speak up for herself, the only time Will does is when Mike has ticked him off so bad, similar to El without her powers. They both just don't fit in. So why don't they also show Will being bullied? It goes back to how they clash, reiterating how they're the yin and yang, switching situations constantly. When Mike first gets to Cali, Mileven are all over each other leaving Will dilly dallying somewhere in the background and Byler eventually fighting. Then Mileven fight and Byler make up. Both Will and El want to hear something from Mike that he's isn't ready to say. He dances around the issue with the both of them - telling El she's incredible and he cares for her, telling Will they're just friends, and indicating their relationship didn't warrant regular contact. Same situation (I want Mike to reciprocate my feelings) different outcome (Mike doesn't love me, Mike can't admit we were best friends ((or more than that)) and his behavior is weird). This is not for no reason. Writers (and no it's not just the Duffers, so please stop shitting on the writing when if you look into it there's some good subtext) don't parallel characters for no reason. They are trying to indicate something. That Will and El are so alike but constantly stuck in opposing situations.
Okay so that's my in depth analysis of why Will and El are essentially the same character while simultaneously contrasting each other. Alter ego foils. Let's get to the ACTUAL point 😭
Superman
So, in the van scene, before Will gives his speech, Mike has his own little semi-speech and towards the end he says "...that I'm just some random nerd who got lucky Superman landed on his doortstep. I mean at least Lois Lane is a reporter for the daily planet, right?"
Now this may seem like a simple analogy, not knowing much about Superman. However, even when I only knew the basics and tropes, it still stood out to me that he referred to el as Superman, not Superwoman, wonder woman or Supergirl. I've seen a few people for and against this theory and it always revolves around the idea that El is a girl not a boy so it should be Supergirl. And yes, I think that partially helps this analogy, it gives it more attention to an average viewer; but that's not the only reason it works. In fact, I don't think that's the main point at all. It's also important that Mike refers to himself as Lois Lane. Now hear me out...
In the original Superman comics, and some iterations of it, Lois Lane falls for Superman because of his super powers and subsequent charisma/attractiveness, while befriending Clark Kent and not realizing they are the same person. Are we seeing this comparison? Please tell me I'm not crazy.
If it wasn't obvious, Mike = Lois Lane, Will = Clark Kent and El = Superman.
Here's a description of the "love triangle" between Lois, Clark and Superman. Yellow is Will, blue is Mike and green is El.
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Now obviously, Superman and Kent really are the same person. However, I think there's plenty of support for the idea that Will and El are nearly interchangeable characters without the powers. So the Writers used a clever reference to indicate this love triangle (or at least I think they intentionally did lol).
What supports this theory more is Mike's descriptions throughout the seasons of El. He's references her super powers more than twice, referred to her as a "machine" a "weapon in s1". In S3 and S4 he has trouble saying ILY which on its own could be plenty of things but coupled with all of the other subtext... let's just say maybe I choose to be delusional. In the monologue, he refers multiple times to her super powers instead of like "i love your caring soul, your warming smile, how you are literally always there for us". No its "you can move mountains, fly, do anything" etc. Clear romanticization of her powers which she probably doesn't like and isn't a healthy thing in a relationship anyway.
Lois Lane has a close personal relationship with both Superman and Clark Kent, yet she's unable to tell that they're the same person. Even though the only thing being different is a pair of glasses and obviously super powers. This parallels how Mike is unable to differentiate between his feelings for Will and his feelings for El. They're confusing because he thinks he's supposed to like El because of society (Lois is primarily attracted to Superman first over Kent because of the allure he brings with his fame and powers, which relates to social standing) and that he can't like Will because of the obvious implications - being gay would give him hardship. For Lois Lane, it means she has a lower social status than if she were to be with Superman. The way El and Will have so many parallels I feel like this analogy is too blatant to not mean something. Especially considering this is a sci-fi action show and Superman would attract similar fanbases, so some of them would be able to make the connection.
+++It's also NOT a coincidence that he says this RIGHT before Will confesses his feeling VICARIOUSLY THROUGH El. It just can't be sorry.
Now obviously this is all speculation, but this next part is really speculation.
So how is Mike's behavior explained in the context of this Superman analogy?
Now that El lost her powers, Will and El are essentially two peas in a pod. If you analyze closely throughout the seasons you would catch on to it, but now more than ever. Mike has too. They call and write all the time so presumably they talk A LOT about A LOT of things. This gave him the time to understand El apart from her powers. Not only that but they were physically separated so even if she did have her powers, he still wouldn't be as affected by them. He finally gets to know her. And that's not to say he doesn't like her. Or even love her. He just doesn't romantically love her. And he realizes that once he's confronted her true self, and once he gets to Cali it's thrown right into his face (as he may or may not have been expecting) causing him to ignore Will. Even though he's never, even in s3, acted this nonchalant and apathetic towards Will. It's noticeable, probably noticeable enough for the general audience. A stark contrast even. Yes it could be the distance so they grew apart but we know from their talks in Vol 1 that it wasn't intentional. Mike says he lost Will. When's the last time he lost Will? In s2 with the Mind Flayer and in s1 with the abduction. How did he react? Negatively, but urgently tried to find Will. This time he reacts negatively but avoids fixing it. Why? Because he, at least on some level, has recognized his feelings for Will. Perhaps the similarities are so glaringly obvious that he feels stupid and naïve.
And one last thing to drive the point home.
Mike, in episode 8, refers to El as "superman". You can brush it all off as oh that's just the most popular superhero, etc. But in the VERY next episode, Argyle refers to her as "supergirl". It shows that Argyle sees her as a girl, not a boy. Not that Mike doesn't know she's a girl but that he chose not to refer to her as such. Someone else pointed out that he has referred to her as "person" multiple times throughout the series. I don't have the proof in that but if it's true it supports this. It also shows that the writers (may) have used the word Superman intentionally.
Well that was super fucking long but I would love to hear opinions if you've gotten this far!!! I don't think it's that far fetched but I am deluded so I truly can't tell lol.
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marzbyler · 2 years
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i genuinely don't get how some people still think will's speech was about el
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Will’s monologue will always be a thousand times better/deeper/more meaningful than Mike’s tbh
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marzbyler · 2 years
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anyway I think you’ll like it, sorry I couldn’t get it done in time, but you mean so much to me and it’s been hard without you around, hope this is enough to make up for [lack of letters and communication], this will be the last until [I get back to California], love, will
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marzbyler · 2 years
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finn's reaction to seeing mike's monologue on netflix geeked
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marzbyler · 2 years
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guys... finn just said that the "you're my superhero" line was added by him while filming... opinions?
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marzbyler · 2 years
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guys we all know the van scene right? well the suffer brothers said "mike may not fully pick up" which means he most likely understood that will wasnt talking about el.
mike's speech was motivated not by his love for el, but by will's speech (that he knew wasnt about el) and by will telling him he was the heart. i recommend checking out @causeineedu on tiktok, her videos are amazing and they really help to restore hope in byler. link to mike's speech analysis here
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marzbyler · 2 years
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i feel like mike knew will was crying in the van. i mean, he even glanced at him?? but i think he left him alone because he thought will wanted to be left alone, maybe mike thought will just wanted to let it out and he let him do his thing.
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marzbyler · 2 years
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mike: hey el once your hair grows what cut are you gonna go for?
el: not sure, maybe i'll keep it short for a while
mike: you could get a bowlcut!!
el: ...like will?
mike: yeah!! i think it'd look really cute on you and also you and will would look like twins!! wouldnt that be c-
el: are you trying to turn me into will
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marzbyler · 2 years
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noah and finn would feed us bylers sm
I think that for season 5, the duffer brothers just shouldn't bother with a script and just let the actors loose on set and let them improvise the whole thing
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marzbyler · 2 years
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little byler thing inspired by this post (make sure to check it out)
and just as will turns his head away from mike, he hears his voice.
m: you're not talking about el, are you?
will turns his head back to face the other boy. he doesn't know what to say, so he just tries to hold back the tears that already started falling from his eyes.
m: everything you said... was it really about el?
w: yeah, i-i mean why would you think it wasn't who-who else would it be about
he says nervously, turning his head to face the window of the van once again. mike slowly breathes in and out, then he grabs will's hand, causing the boy to turn to him once again
m: will i- i guess i need some time and i know i've kept you waiting for so long and i know it must've been awful but i'm just really scared i guess because i've never felt anything like this and it's just so confusing and i'm not sure about what to do with all these, um, things that i'm feeling but-
he looks at will, who nods his head encouraging mike to go on.
m: i'm just saying that it'd be really cool if you were ok with waiting a little more. and i'm sorry about it but i want to be ready-
w: mike. it's ok, i dont mind waiting.
both boys stare at eachother in the eyes, their faces are red and their hands are now fully tangled. both of them smile at eachother once again, then mike scoots closer to will and puts his hand around his shoulder.
m: consider this a hug, since i can't give you a proper one in this pizza van
both of them laugh, then will puts his head on mike's shoulder. even if he still has to wait for mike to think about his feelings, he definitely doesn't mind if this was how he was going to have to spend the wait.
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