feministsofdublin

[feministsofdublin]

"Twitter people won’t debate me :( ”

It’s a common claim: “Feminists won’t debate me - it means they have to valid points” “Pro-choice won’t debate me - they’re all afraid of the facts!” “She didn’t respond - I won the debate!”

These are claims I see again and again on Twitter.

In case you don’t know Twitter is a Micro-blogging platform limiting all posts to just 140 characters.

Twitter was never truest designed for meaningful exchange. Each post is a shout into the void. To engage you have to reply to the individual tweet. Sometimes you right a series of tweets, and amass a slew of comments in each tweet. Twitter conversation - at its very best, is two people taking turns to make very short statements. Lets call my Twitter-Nemesis here ‘Kevin’, for examples sake. 

Imagine a form of debate where each side gets to say two lines before their turn is over. And on twitter this is the best case scenario.

More likely. You try to make your point across a series of tweets. As each one is sent Kevin has a chance to reply to it - before I’m  done making my point.

Because of this Kevin can pick out a single statement to reply to, they can easily ignore the message to fixate in wording, on certain points, asking questions you might have already answered.

This becomes messy fast.

And then, we have the fact twitter is public. And the other side will call for backup. On numerous occasions I’ve had certain tweets mid conversation quoted on the other persons timeline. Saying things like “oh my god! Look at this idiot feminist”.

If Kevin runs an anti-feminist twitter this dog whistle can be a real pain. You might be suddenly expected to keep up numerous back and forth’s a with hostile individuals all making assumptions based on the selected tweet. Or in my case - just the word “feminism” in my twitter handle. - to date my favorite is when I made a local news site labelled “the height of misandry” because I thought competitive mustache growing didn’t directly enough address men’s health issues. From any other randomer this was a casual opinion - but from a FEMINIST my statement was described as “oozing hatred”.

Twitters main flaw as a debate platform Is that it’s assumed to be instant and mobile.We read it on buses, in the toilet, in the line for coffee, sneakily checking it in the office.

I started writing this very post on a bus. And now I’m getting on a Luas.

If I make a “controversial” tweet now, I’d have 20 minutes to defend it before I arrive in work and have to put twitter away. At which point I’m probably frustrated by the other party, and just trying to get them to go away. Possibly ending the conversation cessation with “oh my god!, fuck off” or something similarly undignified as I line up at the office coffee machine. Muting them to ensure I won’t be receiving anymore notifications at my desk.

Kevin is going to pat themselves on the back for “winning”. And once again, add to the little pool of confirmation bias in their head that’s says “feminists can’t debate”.

The problem is the medium. I know many will argue in favour of twitter as a means of debate because they LIKE feeling superior, twitter makes that easy. You only have to outlast your opponent, or frustrate them into blocking you in order to declare your own victory. We’re all guilty of doing this. When we ask questions of our ideological opponents we take their lack of engagement as a lack of ability to engage on the topics.

Twitter is effective mostly in self promotion and news sharing. After that you can engage in a limited capacity. Asking simple questions where you only need a short answer.

Responding to a tweet to clarify your stance, but not expecting or requiring a response. - I do this a lot on various “Feminists say X” articles. I try to make it clear to the author that I just want to state that I, as a feminist did not have my view represented. And explain what my personal view is.

If your going to use Twitter alone to declare your intellectual superiority, you really have trapped yourself in an ‘echo chamber’.

Debate means each side gets time and space to speak, explain themselves, and back it up. It doesn’t mean interrupting, and a key part is to actually hear and acknowledge the other persons point of view. To avoid assumptions and ad hominem attacks. And to actually show some damn respect.

You didn't "win" a debate on Twitter . You never actually had a “debate” to begin with,

[feministsofdublin]

FAQ from the anti-choice

1. Gendercide

Having a twitter account with "Feminist" in the name tends to pick me out as the nearest target when someone's wants to "stick it to the feminists".

One argument on the "abortion is anti-feminist" line if thinking is the supposed Gendercide - or sex selective abortions that would apparently be an inevitable result of repealing the eight amendment.

  There are two main countries where sex-selective abortion is a known phenomenon and issue . China and India.

Neither these countries are not known for their value of women. China's one child policy in particular put huge pressure on families to have one child, who would go on to support them. Forcing families in hardship to have girls does. Nothing to address these societal issues that made female children undesirable in the first place.

Outlawing abortion outright arguably serves more to entrench the view that women are wives and mothers only, and cannot possibly be providers. Many parents - in every culture - choose to have children for the precise purpose of having someone to provide for them as they age. It's a theoretically, selfish, but by no means uncommon stance. Being child-free myself, and intending to stay this way, I have also been asked "but who will take care of you when you're old".

If Ireland's culture was still one that assumed caring duties are a woman’s role (we’re still sort of working on that one) and a woman's caring duties were only to her husbands family, then we also would be at risk of sex selective abortions. But we are not.

The countries with the longest histories of access to legal abortion - UK, US, Netherlands, Germany, Canada... have no evidence of sex selective abortion. These are countries where a woman's value is not limited to that of a wife or mother and she is not seen to belong solely to her husbands family. Where parents hopes for their child are not strictly limited by gender. These are more feminist societies. Where being born female is not nearly the burden it might be elsewhere.

To assume that legal abortion in Ireland is anti-feminist for the reason of sex selectivity, one would assume that Irish parents already have a clear preference for boys, to the point that an abortion of preferable to a girl. This is simply not the case.

The work of feminists has already changed our society to raise the value girls and women. As feminists we cannot create a more feminist society by limiting women. But only by raising the value of the female and femaleness to that it stands equal with male and masculinity.

As feminists we have already removed the motivation for sex selective abortion, before abortion even became legal in our country.

#repeal the 8th #repealthe8th #pro-choice

[feministsofdublin]

Men’s say in abortion

For the numerous twitter users who come to me looking to confirm their assumptions about ”man hating feminists” I’ve had some tweets recently getting angry at me about my opinion on men’s say in abortion. They come from two angles - one is not happy with men just having a ‘say’, or ‘an opinion’. They’re not saying women should talk to male partners, they are saying male partners should have control over whether or not an abortion happens because of the genetic makeup of the unborn.  The second approach is people who see me responding to the first and assume I’m saying we shouldn’t be having these conversations with male partners. It’s frustrating. People will always get up in arms about my stance, and say it’s anti-male. The reality is this: Pregnancy is not biologically equal, and so choice cannot be equal.  Recommended Video (Stuff Mom Never Told you - Should men have a say in abortion)

As for an opinion - that obvious. Of course men have an opinion. Of course they’re entitled to tell they're partners how they feel. That was never even under threat. There is no way we could literally gag male partners from telling us how they feel. That’s an utterly ridiculous claim.  The vast majority of women who are legally aborting (therefore we don’t have data from Ireland) do tell their partners. In this study -  Perceptions of Male Knowledge and Support   Among U.S. Women Obtaining Abortions  -  found that: 

The overwhelming majority of women reported that the men with whom they got pregnant knew about the abortion, and most perceived these men to be supportive. Cohabiting and, to a lesser extent, married women as well as those in longer relationships were more likely to report both of these outcomes, even after controlling for demographic 

See also the results from: The male partner involved in legal abortion.

      What’s really under question is how much weight should that opinion carry. and should men have power in the ‘to abort or not to abort’ question.

I am of the opinion that final say should go to the woman. and I will explain why. 

For one - of the reasons women might not tell a partner about an abortion - we must consider the risk of violence. This study:  Risk of violence from the man involved in the pregnancy after receiving or being denied an abortion -  which says:

  Among women seeking abortion, having an abortion was associated with a reduction over time in physical violence from the MIP, while carrying the pregnancy to term was not. Terminating an unwanted pregnancy may allow women to avoid physical violence from the MIP, while having a baby from an unwanted pregnancy appears to result in sustained physical violence over time. This finding is consistent with our hypothesis that having a baby with an abusive man, compared to terminating the unwanted pregnancy, makes it harder to leave the abusive relationship.

In some cases an abortion might be better for the woman’s long term safety, where an infant would tie her to her abuser. IN these cases she would likely be safest not telling her partner of her abortion. 

Then we must consider the obvious biological ramifications or pregnancy. For a man, his biological role is finished after the part that, for him, is likely to be fairly enjoyable.  But the woman’s journey only begins. Human gestation is still a surprisingly risky business. Lets outline the way women’s experiences is deviate from men’s.   In the US more than 500 women die each year from pregnancy and its complications. more than 2,000,000 women suffer complications of pregnancy and child birth, of which about 20,000 are life-threatening.  IN early pregnancy you may be aware of ‘Morning sickness’ though this name is a misnomer - many women will be affected my nausea all day long, with about half experiencing vomiting.  - this severely affects any woman’s ability to work or otherwise go about her day to day life, and this is just in early pregnancy.  For some women working up until their due date simply isn’t an option, especially if their job is physical. But even a seemingly comfy desk job can be difficult if a baby kicking is causing bladder issues.   Birth, as we all know in incredibly disabling for women - our species evolution (massive baby heads) has made it very difficult to give birth and simply carry on. Roughly one in three births in Ireland require a C-Section.

 ( DETAILED STATISTICS ON IRELAND’S 19 PUBLIC MATERNITY UNITS)  This is major abdominal surgery , which will require longer hospitalisation, about 6 weeks of abstaining from most physical activity, driving, and may take months before normal activities can be resumed. 

Epistiotomy -  a surgical cut in the muscular area between the vagina and the anus - has rates between 10 and 27% in Ireland. This is just the man-made cuts. About 95% of women will naturally tear during their first childbirth.  Tearing ranges from a first degree tear - a tear is just into the lining of the vagina . While this does not involve muscle, sometimes it does require a little suturing.. To a fourth degree tear -  deep tear encompasses all of the above and extends right through to the rectal lining. "This is a very delicate and thorough repair that involves closing multiple layers.  Because of this likely tearing, post-child birth will be painful while sitting for about a week. Bowel movements, coughing, and sneezing, will all hurt too.  With a 3rd of fourth degree tear will lead to two or three weeks of initial pain, as well as pain during sex and bowel movements - and can also cause pelvic floor problems, prolapses, bowel movements difficulties and Urinary incontinence. After this we have to address child care, parental leave, and gender roles of parenting.

Maternity benefit in Ireland is paid  for 26 weeks. Paternity leave - even with the new budget is paid for 2 weeks. Even taken from the day of birth, this won’t even see most fathers at home long enough for the mother to recover. This can be especially difficult is her normal day to say duties include caring for existing children.   Not only that but many fathers don’t take the full paternity leave. This Recent Irish TIme’s article claimed take up will likely be low:

McElwee puts take-up rates among fathers for parental leave in Ireland at between 10-20 per cent.

OECD figures show that in many countries, fathers account for less than one in five of those taking parental leave, with the Nordic countries faring much better with rates as high as 40 per cent. Fathers accounted for just 0.5 per cent parental leave take-up in Australia in 2013, and just 1.6 per cent in Poland. This contrasts strongly with take-up rates of as much as 45 per cent in Nordic countries.

Surely if we lived in a society where we equally valued men as parent’s this wouldn’t happen?

  We expect women to be at home as the Primary parent for the first months of a child's life. We need to recognise how this sets a precedent for the entire parenting experience. Women become the default parent - even once the child has left her body. and fathers too often fall into a role of a ‘helper’ or ‘babysitter’ rather than a full and equal parent.  - How have you ever seen a dad receive smiles and comments about how he’s “babysitting” when seen alone with his child? Stay at home fathers are sadly still quite a rarity, which it would’t be if parenting and working were equally divided. 

All of these policies and attitudes lead into that is known as the ‘daddy bonus and mommy penalty’ affect on mothers and fathers careers. 

Which you can read more about here:

Wall Street Journal:  While Moms Get Less Pay, Fathers Garner “Daddy Bonuses” 

New York Times: The Motherhood Penalty vs. the Fatherhood Bonus; A Child Helps Your Career, if You’re a Man

BBC Business:  Working fathers get 21% 'wage bonus', TUC study suggests

This is the principal concept behind the gender wage gap, a concept inextricably linked to the unequal divide of parenting among genders.

We are talking about the REAL wage gap - not the fake ‘debunked wage gap’ every anti-feminist claims we believe in. 

The wage gap is a relative gap between the average wage of every man and every woman working full time jobs. 

You can learn more about the wage gap and how it reflects unequal parenting division in these videos:

Vox: What people miss about the gender wage gap 

VlogBrothers:  Is the Gender Pay Gap Real?

Now lets get back to the issue of men and abortions. We’ve established that pregnancy and birth, and child rearing disproportionately affect women. Lets look at the ‘say’ men should have in abortion.  Aside from their comments and voicing of opinions. - which we all know was never under threat in anyway. Should men be able to control whether or not a woman has an abortion - because he is the genetic father?   I don’t believe that’s fair.

If the woman is the one directly impacted by the decision than it would be inhumane to take autonomy away from her,  Obviously, for any woman with a partner, there will likely be a discussion around abortion. And for a woman unsure of what she wants, a male who deeply wants to be a father, and will be a dedicated and hardworking one makes the option of keeping the pregnancy much more likely. This is the influence men hold in the abortion conversation. But going farther - for a man to be able to say if a women will carry the pregnancy to term, even if she doesn’t want to should never be even considered. Its inhumane to treat a woman like a walking incubator because you believe you have ownership over the unborn in her uterus. and it completely goes against any claim of ‘equality’ that comes from the genetic makeup of the unborn.  There is no middle ground in this situation.  There are two options. 

1. Women have final say in pregnancy

2. Men have final say in pregnancy. 

And for the many reasons I have outlines I believe it is always the one carrying the pregnancy who should have the say.     To try and distract from this discussion with accusations of ‘men not having a say’ is truly moronic. No one could ever stop men having opinions, even if they wanted to, This is the real issue.  Women bodily autonomy. Which should always belong to women.  

#repeal the 8th #repealtheeighth #Pro-choice

[feministsofdublin]

The Erasure of Choice

How women’s decisions are mysteriously absent from the Pro-life campaign.

There has been much discussion about the ‘tone policing’ that appears in articles about Ireland’s repeal movement. The claims that language used it too ‘loud’, ‘aggressive,  or even ‘shrill’. But its worth looking into the words that are suspiciously absent from the exchange. Anti abortion activists, who call themselves “Pro-Life” have called on the Irish population to “Save the Eight” claiming to save “100,000 lives” (a claim that remains unsubstantiated), and call on the population to Love them Both. Not just loving the unborn, but the mother too.

But much of the Pro-life campaigns language reveals a particularly worrying aspect of their beliefs. Their arguments usually involve the complete erasure of the free will of the women who have abortions.

Their use of the hashtag and slogan #loveboth indicates a complete refusal to accept that abortion happens because of choices mothers made. Instead claiming the are 'protecting' mothers - apparently from themselves? 

They speak of abortion ‘discriminating’ as through the act of abortion itself is a separate,sentient entity - Instead of just a procedure women ask for.

In England - where most Irish women access abortion care - the law requires women who are less than 24 weeks pregnant see two separate physicians, who must agree that the procedure is in their best interest. In addition to this she will be offered counseling. Clearly, Every effort is made to check, and double check she consents to this abortion. And yet the language of the pro-life campaign seems completely oblivious to the fact abortion is something the pregnant person alone has the final say in. That women chose this option for themselves. This is visible again in the way others are often blamed for abortions women chose to have.

A male TD in Cork was targeted for vandalism and pickets for supporting a woman’s right to chose. Its unlikely pro-life activists would stand for this to be done to the homes of women’s who had abortions. But male authority figures are seen as somehow having more control over women’s choice, than the woman herself. (or other gender identities who have uteruses).

 Harsh accusations like “baby killer” are rarely directed at women. Especially not those who have publicly spoken about their own abortion. The pro-life campaign knows how bad this is for their PR. Their message preaches love for women undergoing crisis pregnancies. But speaks of them as though they are barely capable of rational thought. Pro-life activist and spokesperson, Cora Sherlock, has said before she doesn’t wish to criminalize women. And many pro-life campaigners will agree.Yet, Indicated a double standard in their beliefs. If abortion was truly ‘murder’ surely the women who asked and paid for the procedure would be responsible? The pro-life campaign has consistently treated women as through their mental capacity is lesser, and therefore not capable of criminal responsibility.  Sherlock has been very vocal about this issue:

“I don’t think women should be prosecuted. What we want to see is a situation where women are given proper supports…..What I want to see is a law that respects and protects the right to life of women and their unborn babies. I want to see abortionists prosecuted if anyone is to be prosecuted.”

Pro-life activists demand a policy where women are seen as incapable of taking responsibility for their decision. Instead punishing those who might actually trust a woman with her choice. Whether than is politicians, Pro-choice activists, or health care providers. Women are suspiciously absent from the conversation. The same behaviour can be seen in the controversial opinion article in the Irish Independent, by Barbara McCarthy: “’Pro-abortionists' are aggressive, deluded and lacking in empathy“ In this article we see further efforts to portray Ireland’ pro-choice movement as having incredible over the actions of individual women, regardless of their own free will:

“Your friends and society will tell you it's OK to have an abortion. It is all about your rights after all. Then 10 years later, your friends all have kids and you don't. Do they care that they talked you into it all those years ago? “

“If a woman has an abortion and regrets it in 20 years' time, where will the pro-choicers be?”

This author clearly believes women's abortions are more often caused by campaigners looking to legalize and destigmatize abortion. Than the women themselves who travel. Telling a friend you trust their judgement and support them either way is clearly a neutral stance. And Abortion regret is not a risk women take on for themselves.  McCarthy Speaks of a word where women cannot act without permission of others, and therefore its other people who are responsible for the outcomes of her actions.

Abortion regret is often a topic raised by those opposing abortion. yet the Irish women who do regret their abortions still went through great lengths to access the procedure. Leaving the country, or illegally doing in within. The country has already tried to act paternalistic and ‘protect women form themselves’. and we know it doesn’t work.

If you try to talk about the 8th amendment and how it affects you personally, as a uterus owner of reproductive age - you’ll probably be met with constant deflections. Mention of faceless anonymous ‘women’ will emerge.

What’s best for “women” and  Supporting “women”, its always ‘other women’ never you. This is important because women as a whole don’t have have a unified stance on abortion. If you talk about women as an amorphous group, you can evoke societal feelings of protection, or nostalgia for our own mothers. You can ignore the individual cases. And the very real people who have very clear ideas about what they want. They can pretend they are not shouting over the women who tell them they want to be the ones in charge of this decision.

I can say I am pro-choice for very personal reasons. I imagine being in that situation, and a termination feels like something I might very well opt for. I will not be spoken about as though I am not there. The eight amendment goes against my wishes, and aims to control my body in a way I do not consent to. This is not happening Pro-life campaigners. Even without the amendment no women would be forced to have an abortion she didn’t fully consent to. If you never chose wish to put your own life above that of the unborn then you will never be directly affected in anyway . There are always situations in which this may be necessary. In child birth, very much wanted pregnancies may need to be ended for reasons that risk a mothers life. In effect the eighth amendment places the life of the unborn above the right of the mother. This unacceptable in a society that claims women to be equal, and full citizens. Being Pro-Choice is a stance that says you will allow women to take responsibility for her decision. That you can’t claim to know whats best for a stranger, That you won’t go against her wishes.

#repealthe8th #repeal the 8th #rise and repeal #repealtheeighth #Pro-choice #Ireland #abortion

[feministsofdublin]

FAQ

“Abortion up to 40 weeks”: “The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that 66 percent of legal abortions occur within the first eight weeks of gestation, and 92 percent are performed within the first 13 weeks. Only 1.2 percent occur at or after 21 weeks (CDC, 2013). The abortion limit in the UK is 24 weeks. The reason for this is most likely related to the developing capability to feel pain, which is proven to not possibly exist before 22 weeks. Abortions in later terms are very rare. Abortion is safer, less invasive, and cheaper when done as early as possibly in pregnancy. Limits on access to abortion only serve to delay the procedure. The main reason that we must keep abortion legal is to allow for Fatal Foetal Abnormalities. Thee is no reason to delay the suffering of the unborn and the parents if its against their wishes. Many parents when faced with this news late in pregnancy would rather their child die with the assistance of anesthetic, rather than suffering the trauma of birth, or suffocating soon after. Its important this option remains open. And that its opposer stop using misleading language and recognize the tragic situations that make termination up to 40 weeks necessary.

[feministsofdublin]

Why We March

I'll be proudly attending the March for Choice in Dublin tomorrow. and I invite anyone who can to do the same. This will be my 4th time marching.

We are asking the Government to repeal the 8th Amendment to the Irish constitution which says:

"The State acknowledges the right to life of the unborn and, with due regard to the equal right to life of the mother, guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate that right."

Being a uterus-owner of child bearing age, who does definitely not currently want to birth or raise an infant -   this law affects me much more directly than the average citizen.

The reality of this law that if I were to get pregnant, from the moment of fertilization  My life can no longer be legally prioritized.

Even for a woman who does consent to birthing an infant. She cannot be treated as more of a person than the unborn. A woman undergoing a miscarriage cannot be treated until doctors are certain the unborn has definitely died on its own. This was relevant in the death of Savita Halappanavar.

In cases of fatal Foetal Abnormalities. Women in Ireland cannot ask doctors to intervene, instead being sent home to wait for the unborn inside them to die. Or be born only to due soon after, sometimes with great suffering.

If an illness such as an aggressive cancer is found during pregnancy, treatment may hurt the unborn, and so can be delayed against the will of the mother.

59% of women in the US obtaining abortions are already mothers. And are likely to chose their responsibility to the children them already have, above the unborn.

And then their is elective abortion. and I really have to say. If you Believe some women don't "deserve' abortions, because their story isn't tragic enough, because they didn't 'try hard enough to avoid pregnancy", because they've had too many abortions already.

If you believe these things, then you are in favour of forced birth.

It means you believe that no matter how sure a woman is that she cannot endure this pregnancy, you know better and she MUST go through it against her will . and I think that is unbelievably cruel.

  No one should treat motherhood and pregnancy like a punishment. If you believe a woman is irresponsible or immoral for getting pregnant and wanting abortion than it is completely hypocritical for you to insist that same woman become a mother and raise future generations despite her being in no way prepared to do so.

Pregnancy and motherhood are unequal experiences where women bear the burden. Even post-birth it is women's careers, and incomes who suffer greatly. It's women's time that must now be dedicated to another. Not everyone has maternity leave, not everyone has savings to pay the bills while they can't work.

If - despite all my efforts to keep my eggs permanently unfertilized -  I were to get pregnant now, Abortion would definitely be on the table. I'm privileged enough to have the option of travel. Not everyone does.

This country has told me over and over that they don't need Abortion, because women like me have that option. They have told me that so long as I cross a border - It's my business, my choice, they don't want to know. But if I stand on this side of the Irish sea and swallow a pill. I risk 14 years in prison.

Because in this country my value is reduced, and my life is seen as interchangeable with something tiny, undeveloped, not conscious. From before it has a heartbeat, from before it has a brain. Long before it can ever feel pain - but because it lives in me, It's as much a person as me? A corpse has more bodily integrity than I do in that situation, as you cannot use a dead persons organs without permission.  

I reject this scenario.  I will chose whats best for me. I will trust other women to do the same.  If they say we will regret it , we will take that risk.

We are not children. We know what the 8th is, and what it means. and we reject it.

I implore you to do the same.

#repealtheeighth #repeal the 8th #repeal #pro-choice #march for choice

[feministsofdublin]

Moral Issues of abortion and the unborn that don’t fit in a tweet.

Moral issues of abortion are complicated.   First there is the argument that “It’s life”. In this scenario, new life is a misnomer, the ovum has always been ‘alive’ in the woman ovary. Women are born with all the eggs they will ever need.

Both Sperm cells and eggs are ‘alive’ in the literal sense of the word. They are both human cells. But we lose both constantly during our lifetimes.

Some say that fertilization is when the egg is “alive" because it then has all the cells necessary to become a human. Some will even say this is when the soul appears...

But at this stage so much can happen. and we disregard fertilized eggs in so many other scenarios when it suits us.  A morning after pill may prevent a fertilized egg from implanting. IUDs will have the same effect. Development can’t proceed until implantation occurs because this is how the zygote will receive nourishment form the mother.

Without human intervention the fertilized egg will still often be lost, some estimate up to 60% of all pregnancies are lost in the early stages.

Identical twins occur when one fertilized egg splits in two, are these now half a person? A chimera is a result of two fraternal twin eggs fusing and becoming one human, is this one person two souls?

An egg with a damaged nucleus may fertilize and become a molar pregnancy, which won’t develop into an infant, and in some cases can turn cancerous, but it still has full human DNA.

Ectopic pregnancies implant in the fallopian tube, they cannot be carried to term, and a rupture could kill the mother.  Yet that is still human DNA.

The bodies seems to be designed for ‘spontaneous’ abortion to occur as a kind of quality check. Most pregnancies with complications will not be carried to term. An estimated 54% of down syndrome pregnancies will be lost by time of delivery 92% of anencephaly, and even cleft palettes will increase the chance of miscarriage. Self-abortion has long been naturally controlling for the best possible outcomes from pregnancy. It can be argued that Induced abortion is carrying on the reproductive control the body failed to do. Or is controlling for factors outside the body, such as lack of home or food security, poor finances, or abusive relationships.

In many way anti-choice arguments selectively chose when life matters, and when it doesn’t. Few would claim to care for the suffering of animals who are killed and eaten for meat. In fact they are often insulted and disgusted by the comparison. But its worth asking - what makes humans different to other animals on this earth. Why are we more?

The philosophical answers to this question often talk about our capacity. Our language, our moral agency, our complexity.  Our ability to feel, to want, to have goals, to feel pain, to be self aware.     The woman carrying the pregnancy has a greater claims to these traits that make her undeniably human - in the philosophical sense, than the unborn. In the early stages of development, when most abortion happens, they have no ability to feel, perceive, or love. They are still developing. Developmentally they have less capacity than most animals. We all grow form something simple, into a complex human being. But that takes time. We weren’t consciously sitting in two pieces in our parents bodies waiting to be created. Our lives had not started. The unborn’s entire value is derived by others as its ability to become a human. Its ‘potential’.

    But potential is lost every day, when sperm cell or eggs are lost, ending another potential person.  When we don’t reproduce, whether thats using contraception, or simply not having sex, another potential ends. Every time you chose which street to walk down and billions of potential people may not be born. The only difference is how close that is to becoming a person.

There is no moral black and white. There is a very complex spectrum, and most of us with a stance have chosen here we stand. But we must all admit we CHOSE this stance. There is no default. Choosing to say that an early pregnancy is more murder than contraception is an arbitrary choice.

Abortion ends something close to a life. But it may have spontaneously aborted anyway. You may have lost many pregnancies yourself, unknown to you. But when you have not bonded, or given value to the unborn, you shrug it off as a period and continue on with your life without a second thought. We are not mourning from the first menarche as a life ended each month, even though a very much alive egg, did die.

You may even have even thought of this as natural, the body knowing if a person can’t physically endure that pregnancy. But you chose the stance that a woman deciding for herself that the pregnancy won’t be continued, is ‘murder’.

This is not a black and white issue. This is a very complex issue you chose a overly simplistic stance in.

#repeal the 8th #repealtheeighth #repeal

[feministsofdublin]

My response to "Pro-abortionists' are aggressive, deluded and lacking in empathy” by paragraph.

Link to Article 1/ This  is just a list of negative terms to insist we’re bad people. She fails to realize we aren’t arguing over simple “opinions” but stances that shape a law that affects our bodies. This person’s opinion that they believe something has value, therefore I cannot have a say in it. The 8th amendment isn’t people’s opinions, its my life, my options. Catholic doctrine is worth bring up, since there really is no point trying to engage a person who insists “its life, god says so, you can’t have an abortion”.

2/ This is really a ramble about not liking the ‘start of shame’ line. Do you own a shop there or something?

3/ “Liberals and group-thinkers”. Isn’t this collective title evident of the stereotyping symptom of group-think? Also complains we weren’t around 33 years ago. This is interesting because being too young for last referendum indicates you are likely of child bearing age. Therefore Barbara has already indicated she is  significantly less affected by the 8th than those she is complaining about in this article.

4/"If a woman has an abortion and regrets it in 20 years' time, where will the pro-choicer’s be?” We don’t disappear post-referendum. If I had a friend who regretted an abortion my words would be “You did what you felt was best at the time”.  But strongly reject the notion that women can’t take the burden of these decisions, that we will turn around and blame those surrounding us for not controlling our actions. Blame them for trusting us.

5/ 'choice' doesn't seem to be on their agenda” - We’re not forcing them on a plane Barbara. We’re not yelling “get an abortion” at women on the street. The idea is that when women say they want, or have had an abortion, we say “Thats ok”. and offer support. We’re behind trusting women, supporting women, and treating them like adults who can make complex decisions. You are telling us off for not trying to talk women out of abortions they already chose. If we tell women what to do thats not a choice.

6/ "Then 10 years later, your friends all have kids and you don’t.” It’s an abortion not a hysterectomy, Barbara. Telling someone its “it OK to have an abortion” is not the same as “they talked you into it”. You seem to really struggle with the idea pregnant women have any autonomy of their own.

7/ A yes vote means people who want abortions, can get abortions. Again, really talking about pregnant women like mindless drones with opinions that could be swayed by a breeze. 23 year olds are less likely to want a child because they are less able to care for one or provide as much as they would like to. 40 year olds are more settled and have established their careers and support networks. Why do you think the 40 year old wished they’d get pregnant at 23? They weren’t ready before and It seems they know that.

8/ "Is it down to lack of education, financial means, alcohol?” By all means talk about contraceptive availability and effectiveness. But please don’t let this be you women were too reckless to deserve an abortion.

9/ “Abortion will give you Syphilis”. - Barbara believes we need forced birth to scare women into chastity? Does this not indicate she thinks women will have unprotected sex while shrugging “I’ll just get an abortion”?! Wow, she really has a disparaging view of young women

10/"Properly taught biology and free condoms” I think we need to talk about sex outside of the biology ‘this is where babies come from’ and have proper, in depth factual sex ed, as well as more consideration of long term birth control for young women. Free Condoms are nice, at least we agree on that, 11/  She started off well but then it went “but you’ll love it so its grand”. Barbara, you could fill my tiny apartment with dogs and I’d love every one of them like a child. Does not mean it’s a good idea, or that I am in any place to care for them. Also please don’t tell women to bank on their ability to love under duress.

12/ I am all for information.

13/ “people who feel empathy towards an aborted foetus" -Well scientifically, the foetus cannot feel pain or emotions, thats a fact worth talking about when women are bombarded with hate for the nonexistent torture they apparently caused. By definition you can’t empathize - it doesn’t have feelings for you to share. What you are doing is closer to anthropomorphizing, imagining it to have feelings of a grown human.  I’m sorry you think you are being ‘ridiculed’ when someone has to explain this to you.

Rated 3/10 would not read again. We seem to have the thoughts of a woman, opposed to abortion (in at least some cases, I’m guessing the ones where the mothers situation isn’t adequately tragic) who put these thoughts to someone decidedly pro-choice. It sounds like the pro-choice person defended their stance and Barbara took it very personally. she uses terms like free speech, but this situation has nothing to do with it. She was able to post all this on the website of a national paper. She can in no way claim censorship. Instead she is demanding she be unopposed, and demanding respect for her views from the very young women this issue directly affects. Her inability to comprehend that a pregnant women might have an opinion of her own is truly frightening.

From the start she she is fretting over the pro-choice movements attempt's to stigmatize abortion. Deliberately equating unapologetic support of a choice with a celebration of abortion. Like most opposed to this campaign. Again and again she describes the women faced with the choice of an abortion as faceless ‘other’ separated from us’. Someone we are making these decisions on behalf of. Just like the anti-choice campaign she refuses to admit that we are those women. She dismisses us for our age, without acknowledging that this factor means we are the ones impacted by the 8th, not her.  Women who need to make these choices have a voice, Barbara. Trying to separate the argument from the women doesn’t change that.

[feministsofdublin]

Response to “Masculinity in Crisis”

I assist in organizing feminist meetups in Dublin, Through this and other activism, such as the Abortion Rights Campaign,  I would say I have a fairly good sense of what to expect from from the average Irish Feminist

Thankfully most of the world has come to terms with the basics -  that equality is good, street harassment is bad, and how we are all limited by the gendered expectations put on us.

But using the term feminist - effectively giving a name to your interest in gendered relations and experiences - can be simply exhausting.

Sadly the "Men's Rights Movement' has become synonymous with staunch anti-feminism, And taken away from many worthwhile causes. (In Ireland alone groups and campaigns like Men's Sheds, Amen, Mind our Men, and Blue September all need a shout out)

The anti-Feminist smear campaign dates back to the time of women's suffrage, and has been very successful. How often to we think of feminists as unattractive, hysterical, bra-burning, man-haters? We let a movement that hates women, define feminism as a movement that hates men.

I am frustrated every time I hear someone say "I'm a feminist - but I don't hate men". Because this should go without saying, Most people are well acquainted with this assumption of feminism, but ask them where it came from, and few, if any,  will be able to provide a lived experience to back it up. Part of the reason I got  involved was because I was tired of hearing 'feminist' as a pejorative, and I wanted to do something about it. I wanted to find these "bad feminists" and explain how they were ruining it for everyone. I wanted to explain to them how men were hurt by gender roles too.

About 3 years later, I am still looking. I can't seem to find anyone in need of this talk.

We are told constantly that this is our fault, that we didn't do more to call out these 'bad feminists". But when I ask 'How?" I am met with silence.

Are we supposed to quit our jobs and scour twitter feeds to tell angry tweeters we must revoke their feminist card?

Even those angry tweeters deserve to be heard in context, and allowed to explain themselves. Victims of abuse do not need to hear #notallmen. They know not all men do this, but maybe one did, and they suffered for it.

The fears about the evil feminists can be seen projected everywhere. A recent Irish times opinion article centered around a supposed tweet from an Irish feminist the author claimed "essentially said" - all men are complicit in sexism" - Her actual tweet said she would like men to notice sexism.

Article in Question:

Feminists busy shooting themselves in the foot

Offending Tweet in Question

I have yet to see a discussion where feminists are accused of blaming all men, that wasn’t met with waves of denial, and attempts at explanation. I have even tried offering to meet these commenters in person to help them to gain perspective. All met with refusal. I am told over and over that I simply can't represent the majority of feminists. That I MUST be a part of a tiny minority. I’m not.If we actually felt all men were a danger to us,  we wouldn’t be living among them, dating them, working with them, friends with them, marrying them...​

I am so very tired of being told we are only allowed to discuss negative aspects of being a woman if we gently tip toe around the ego’s of men.

It's clear that talk of sexism makes some men uncomfortable. They want us to reassure them. They want us to say there is some fundamental difference between them and these perpetrators of sexism. To tell them that only a certain kind of sub-human, criminally minded person could do those things.

If I have an inbox full of hate from self identified men, I don't think its unreasonable to be able to make a statement like "men send me awful messages" without having to turn to the nearest man, hold his hand and gently reassure him "When I say men I don't mean you, I know you would never do that".

Most of us manage this. If someone in my vicinity says "Women spend too much on handbags" - I know that I, a woman, do not own a handbag, and so they are not accusing me of excessive spending on accessories. It's that simple.

The main reason I identify as a feminist. Is because I believe it’s clear in our society that the value of female, and Feminine, is far below that of the male and masculine. We can see this in the way ‘woman’ and ‘girl’ are regularly use as an insult. Rarely has being called a “typical woman:” been a positive thing.

It’s seen in the way women can fairly easily cross gendered norms and feel empowered, but men are regularly ridiculed or made to feel humiliated by doing the same.  So I feel a movement with the feminine right in the name is well suited to achieve a true equality for both.  Its not the only thing I talk about, or only movement I support. But it describes this one thing I care about. A base level of legal equality has been reached, we acknowledge that, and are happy about it. But feminism still strives for social equality. We are still working to be seen as full, individual, autonomous human beings, worthy of respect. More than our looks, more than just the side-kick in someone else’s story.  We are still working to loosen the binds of gender roles, and stereotypes, for everyone.

So when you talk about the 'bad feminists' Please stop and think about where these negative assumptions come from, and whether or not the impression is being given that this represents a sizable proportion of self identified feminists.

We know angry, mean, rude people exist. Even within feminism. But we really feel the majority is not given its own voice often enough. We are glossed over as representatives of the term because we don’t cause drama, or reinforce the negative stereotype people want to read about.

  But we ARE your typical, young, modern feminists.

[feministsofdublin]

“What rights do men have that women don’t have legally?”

Oh, Touche, anti-feminists. You got us. We’ll just pack up and be off..... This is the most common rebuttal of feminism I see, it pops up in some form about once a week. But lets look into it. Women in western societies have it pretty good legally. Legal rights are comparable. and apparently asking for anything more - say social equality - is just greedy.

So is feminism over?

First, when did that happen? When did women gain equal legal rights to men. What year did it happen? this list of the changing world of Irish women gives a great list.

1964 - Women gained equal custody of their children.

1970s  - bars were allowed to exclude women. a lot of changed happened in the 70s, but before this decade women could not own credit card,  could not get a mortgage without a mans signature, nor was her income counted (assuming she would stop work upon having a baby).

1973 - the Ban was removes that prevented married women working in the Civil Service, Local Authorities and Health Boards

1976 - Until then women couldn’t sit on a jury.

1976 - According to Irish Law, women had no right to share the family home and her husband could sell their property without her consent.

But there are many areas where the law is clearly oppressive to women, Despite a comparable law not being in place for men. So we can see how ‘a right men have that you don’t’ is still a very low bar for women's welfare.

We are in Ireland after all. and here we still don’t have the right to end a pregnancy. Arguably nor do those who aren’t bearing the pregnancy.  Does that mean its not a woman’s right issue? Does that make us greedy?

1971 - Until then a woman could be dismissed form her job for becoming pregnant.

1981 - We got a Criminal Law act defining Rape - I could be wrong on this, but all the references to our laws refer to the act of 1981, and I am struggling to find an earlier definition. Feel free to correct me here.

    Rape as a legal term is still gendered in this country, Yet its still obvious to most why a lack of a criminal definition has huge ramifications for women

1990 - Martial was finally recognized as a crime, not a right of a husband.

   You only have to look at the arguments of the time to see how it was widely believed that raping your wife was a normal ‘quarrel’ and how involving the police would prevent the couple from making up. Does anyone really think that is part of a fair and equal society?

1992 - Liberalization of the selling of contraception   Again, men couldn’t get them either. But women, being the bearers of the pregnancy, and much of the pregnancy discrimination, suffer disproportionately. Lack of family planning options do not consume a mans life in a way equal to that of a woman's. He does not lose his job, his identity, and too often some men still will not make equal sacrifices, or give equal time to parenting. These are just the legal aspects - that's clearly indicate “having the same legal rights as a man” is a really, shitty, low bar bar to set, that grossly simplifies our entire society, and lives. It ignores the actual issues women face. This isn’t even all of the legal changes that occurred in the last 50 years. Feminism is the push for the Political, social and legal equality of women. Racism didn’t end the day anti-discrimination laws came into effect.

and to believe all legitimate feminist causes evaporated in the 1970s is simply saying that any issue that requires more social change than ‘making a law banning it’ is completely invalid.

How can we possibly have socially equality where ‘woman’ is still an insult’ where ‘man’ is a compliment.

#Irish Feminism

[feministsofdublin]

Why you need to call yourself a feminist

We get it, we know feminism got a bad name. While we will debate forever on how it happened (I say anti-women smear campaign, other say we brought it on ourselves) It exists. A variety of celebrities have taken the time to tell us how they aren’t feminists, despite their apparent lack of actual anti-feminist values. Including Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, even Taylor Swift for a time. All sharing a variation of the same sentiment: “I’m all for women, but I don’t hate men”. Well first, to those women, thanks for throwing us all under the ‘man-hating’ bus, Reinforcing the myth most of us are still battling against. Often along with our baffled, yet much loved husbands, boyfriends, fathers, brothers, friends..not to forget the male feminists.

  But while feminism may have so far failed to fully shake these negative labels, there is one thing it still holds deep links with, and that’s women’s rights.

It’s arguably impossible  to really advocate for women without being labelled a feminist yourself. If you care about preventing sexual assault, stopping gender stereotyping, reproductive rights, equal treatment for women, childcare and helping working mums (and MANY other issues)... odds are someone will complain about your ‘feminist agenda’ and your ‘feminist views’. And here is where we see the true insidious nature of the anti-feminist smear.

If you feel compelled to distance yourself from the feminist label, you will find yourself making a conscious effort to stay quiet and keep the status quo. They want you to be afraid to speak up, and out. There is nothing wrong with advocating for women's issues, or even casually talking about irksome situations. I myself once made an inane comment about my colleagues treating me differently being the only woman on the team, only to be met with “Woah! Fem-rant!’. When you embrace the term feminist, it can’t be used against you, and your not afraid to speak up. So unless you genuinely don’t believe in women’s rights or gender equality. Please stop throwing us under that bus.

When your asked ‘are you a feminist?’ try saying “I like equality, so yeah”.

#feminism