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diedikind · 13 days

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Hua Cheng's Affections toward Xie Lian (An Analysis Written from 2022 to the Present)

*reflecting back on it now, it seems that i jumped through so many hoops just to arrive at a fairly obvious conclusion, but i had fun with the process, and this has been sitting in my drafts for way too long to just be discarded in the end, so here goes nothing.

Inciting Incident

In January 2022, shortly after finishing TGCF, my brain decided to be contrarian. Thus, Argument A was born.

Argument A

It is disrespectful to oneself for Hua Cheng to live solely for Xie Lian. Life is one's own, yet he lives it for someone else. In response, I thought of a counterargument: If not for Xie Lian, Hua Cheng would have died long ago, so his life is essentially a debt owed to Xie Lian. We call this rebuttal Argument A’. In response to Argument A’, I also thought of a refutation, which, long story short, can be summed with the analogy: just because a firefighter saved you in a fire doesn't mean you have to live your life for them. Argument A still stands.

(my ultimate goal is not to defend any given argument but to find a coherent explanation, so I will be repeatedly countering my own arguments.)

Argument B

In May 2022, my friend T, after hearing Argument A, said that although she hasn't read TGCF, she watched a Chinese video essay of a character named Kimimaro in Naruto (which I haven't seen), which she believes closely resembles Hua Cheng's character core. I have transcribed and translated the video script:

【After a battle, [Kimimaro] didn't know why he was alive until he saw a flower blooming in a weed-filled swamp. Kimimaro suddenly became angry: "Why does it bloom here where no one can see?" He wanted to destroy the flower, just as he wanted to destroy himself. Then, a voice came from behind: "Living doesn’t always have to have meaning, but continuing to live might allow you to find something meaningful. Just like you found that flower, I found you." The speaker was, of course, Orochimaru, a friend of orphans. In the pale fog, Kimimaro's world suddenly became colorful.】

From then on, Kimimaro began to live for Orochimaru. However, Orochimaru seems to be a villain. Later, during a fight with the main characters, one of them called Gaara commented:

【"Have you been brainwashed? So shallow."】

Kimimaro didn't think so.

【At that time, he had no family, no goals, only the despair of not knowing why he should live. It was Orochimaru who gave him hope and dreams. Even if the end of that dream was destruction, at least, he had lived for it. Kimimaro, merging with his bones, burst out of the darkness, roaring: 'It's not brainwashing!” On the brink of death, he climbed out of despair time and again, desperately wanting to live, because he fought for the most important person to him, his own dream. The giant bone spear grew larger in Gaara's eyes, at such a distance, survival was impossible. But blood dripped onto a white flower, and Kimimaro's already crippled body stopped forever in the final moment.】

My friend T argued, just like Kimimaro, Hua Cheng considered Xie Lian as his dream, which was his own choice, and that means he respected himself immensely. We will call this Argument B.

Argument B reminds me of a scene in The Great Gatsby: Gatsby stands on his dock, reaching for the green light on Daisy's dock across the water. The green light symbolized Daisy and also represented Gatsby's American Dream. Gatsby didn't actually love Daisy; he loved what Daisy represented, a dream, and Gatsby was "great" because he was celebrated for his pursuit of that dream. Similarly, Kimimaro didn't love Orochimaru, because for him, Orochimaru had transcended being just a person and had become his dream.

There are two problems with Argument B.

First Problem:

Argument B erodes Hua Cheng's love for Xie Lian. If Hua Cheng purely considers Xie Lian a dream, then love loses any explanatory power. Just as Xie Lian can still persist in his dream of saving the common people despite feeling repulsed by then and wanting to destroy the world, so can Hua Cheng pursue the dream of Xie Lian without loving him. This narrative leaves no room for love as an explanatory variable.

Second Problem:

Argument B positions the relationship between Hua Cheng and Xie Lian on unequal ground. Usually, when we say someone is our dream, we refer to a concept or an object, like your dream of getting into Harvard. When a person becomes a dream, it seems to disrupt the balance of grouping people with people and objects with objects, turning Xie Lian into a "prize" for achieving a dream, objectifying him. Or perhaps "objectifying" isn't the right word here, perhaps the connotation of "conceptualizing" or "idolizing" would sound better. In the original text, Hua Cheng says two seemingly contradictory statements, "(I am willing to be your stepping stone,) but I know you won't" and "to fall from grace is also you." It seems contradictory because if Hua Cheng really knows "you won't [become the next white-clothed calamity]", then "to fall from grace" is no longer you. (ah, this sounded much more coherent in Chinese. i don't have access to the English version so I can only provide my own translations.) Upon reflection, these two statements aren't contradictory. The solution is to define "you" as Xie Lian's true self, a noun, and any other 'type of you' is just an adjective, so even a 'calamity' you is just a phase, a temporary adjective, which will eventually pass, and Xie Lian will ultimately return to his true self, the 'you'. Therefore, Hua Cheng is willing to wait forever and is willing to ignore the wishes of calamity!Lian to clear the path and kill Lang Ying for him because he knows when Xie Lian returns to his true self, he will regret it, he "knows you won't [really become the next white-clothed calamity]," he believes in the Xie Lian in his mind, the noun, the concept, even if real-time evidence contradicts it (calamity!Lian). He has faith in his god, he has faith that his dream is worth it. This belief in a dream is based on a form of idolisation. And this idolisation, whether for Hua Cheng or Xie Lian, is unfair. The unfairness to Hua Cheng comes from the absolute power that Xie Lian holds over him as his god; the unfairness to Xie Lian comes from his "objectification". Argument B places their relationship on unequal footing.

There are three solutions to the second problem.

The first solution is proposed by the YouTuber @杨初九 (we will call her 99) in an email correspondence on February 15, 2023. The basic idea is that although Xie Lian has power over Hua Cheng, he does not abuse it. Here is the translation of the email content:

"I think it's true, their relationship is indeed unequal, and this would typically be problematic in most couples, but it isn't for me. The reason is Xie Lian. Xie Lian treats Hua Cheng with immense respect, with careful consideration, almost to the point of being humble. If Xie Lian were just a bit more excessive, this couple wouldn't work. So, to me, it feels like they both step back and maintain an unspoken understanding. For Xie Lian, it's: 'I know I am very important to San Lang, so I must not use this as leverage, I step back to give him more space.' This subtle balance of mutual unspoken understanding between them is absolutely brilliant!"

I agree. To supplement, I would like to add two quotes from canon:

【With a sword in one hand and a flower in the other, it symbolizes "possessing the power to destroy the world, yet retains a heart that cherishes flowers."】

【Humans ascend to become gods, and gods, relative to humans, are predecessors, mentors, and guiding lights, but not masters.】

Therefore, even though Xie Lian has absolute power, he never abuses it.

The second solution is from a thread I came across by @/danylanzhou on twi. To put it simply, Hua Cheng has to be the dom. If he were the bottom, the relationship would be unequal. Being the dom is the only way he can balance the power difference between him and Xie Lian, though my friend T finds this argument absurd.

The third solution addresses Xie Lian's "objectification" and comes from one of my own metas: 【As Xie Lian's most devoted follower, he never expects any reciprocation from Xie Lian. Although Xie Lian is his dream, he does not care whether this dream can be 'realized.' He does not let his satisfaction depend on any external rewards that his god might provide, although naturally, he would be happier if Xie Lian acknowledged him. The main point is that he does not use this as his motivation. Instead, he treats Xie Lian well and strives to make himself strong to protect his god.】 This means that Hua Cheng does not view Xie Lian as a "prize" for achieving his dream, because he does not covet the result of realizing this dream. Rather, it's the sweet care he shows in the process of pursuing his dream that fulfills his self-realization.

Then, the second issue is resolved, and Argument B is left with only the first issue: Where has the love gone?

@碧影沉潭（we will call her Cat）commented: "You think that only dreams stem from an independent self, while love is dependent and considerate of others. So, you feel that if Hua Cheng loves Xie Lian because he sees him as a dream, then he has his own independent personality, he is not pitiable, not a lapdog. But if Hua Cheng sees him as a dream because he loves Xie Lian, then he is a lapdog. But following this train of thought, I think, doesn't that mean love = lack of self? (hmmm...) It's like saying only individual dreams are personal, while love is necessarily dependent. If love doesn’t consider the other's feelings, then it's not dependent, which objectifies the other, and that’s not true love..."

Almost, not exactly what I think, but Cat summarized the main dispute between Argument A and Argument B.

Argument C

Setting aside all discussions about dreams, Hua Cheng's autonomous choice is not a dream. His autonomous choice is to love Xie Lian as a person.

On one hand, Argument C resolves the issue in Argument A of Hua Cheng lacking his own personhood, and on the other hand, it resolves the issue in Argument B of lacking love.

However, Argument C has a fatal flaw. Because the epilogue states, "This is a story about dreams," because Xie Lian says, "If you don’t know how to continue living, then consider me as your reason to live," because it is written in the text, "This person truly regards him as a god" (Chapter 179), because Hua Cheng says, "If your dream is to save the common people, my dream is solely you," because there is a line, "And I will forever be your most devoted believer," and so many other mentions of dreams and godhood. This is a book about dreams. You can't avoid talking about dreams.

Argument D

Still in February 2023, Cat said, the underlying logic is that both 'dreams' and 'love' produce dopamine in the brain. You are happy pursuing dreams, and you are happy loving someone. Being happy is all that matters.

99 responds in an email: 【Having studied psychology in my undergraduate years, I didn't believe in love either, and supported the idea that love just boils down to chemicals like dopamine and oxytocin. The mystery of love is gone in an instant, and humans seem to become a machine. Now I might have a new perspective, that is, chemical substances might just be the physical manifestations of the thing we call love, but they are not love itself. Love is a more complex thing, beyond physical manifestations, and there must be immeasurable mental representations.】

I concur to the end of not settling with a reductionist approach and calling it a day. Otherwise, all human behaviour could technically just be reduced to neurotransmitters in the brain and hormones in the body etc. etc., which would make this debate meaningless. I believe we should work with the phenomenology of these things, which is to say, the names we give and the labels we attach to them: 'dream' and 'love'.

Argument E

Perhaps the author feels that on the surface level, dreams and love are the same thing. Dream = Love.

The problem with Argument E: A person can persevere with their dream without love, and can love someone without making them their dream. I do not think that dreams and love can be conflated at the surface level.

Argument F

@那面鏡紙 (we will call her Mirror) suggests that there is a causal relationship between love and dreams. Because Xie Lian loves the common people, he wants to save the common people. Because Hua Cheng loves Xie Lian, Xie Lian becomes his dream. Hua Cheng fell in love with Xie Lian first, and therefore made him his dream.

This is refuted similarly to Argument E. Additionally, I think there was a clear trigger for Hua Cheng to consider Xie Lian as his dream, which is the moment when Xie Lian said, "If you don't know how to continue living, then live for me." It was from that moment that Hua Cheng made up his mind to give his life to Xie Lian, and to regard Xie Lian as his dream. This choice was not driven by his love for Xie Lian; he was just over ten years old at that time, and I don't believe he understood love. Otherwise, we would be treading dangerous territory ahem. Even if Argument F reverses the causality, saying that Hua Cheng loved Xie Lian because he considered him as a dream first, I still don’t think it's valid, and it's even less persuasive than the earlier statement that love leads to the dream.

Here's an interlude of a translated conversation with Mirror from 2023, consider it a quick summary of the content discussed so far.

Me: Argument A states that it's disrespectful to oneself for Hua Cheng to live his life for Xie Lian, as it's his own life.

Me: The rebuttal to Argument A says that it's justified because he owes it to him.

Me: But Argument A stands its ground because if say a firefighter saves your life it doesn't necessitate that you have to live for them.

Mirror: thanks for simplifying lol

Me: lol Then Argument B states that it's not about Hua Cheng disrespecting himself, but about Hua Cheng having the 【autonomy to choose】 Xie Lian as his 【dream】, which actually shows Hua Cheng's self-respect. So B basically refutes A.

Me: Argument C says that it indeed is Hua Cheng's autonomous choice, but what he chooses is not to treat Xie Lian as a dream but to 【love him as a person】.

Me: The rebuttal to Argument C says that the entire story emphasizes dreams, so we can't ignore the notion of dreams.

Mirror: Yes, but I think the two of you have different definitions of dreams.

Mirror: Cat started off talking about C, but you are talking about B

Me: Right, because I feel that there are too many classic quotes in this book revolving around dreams, so you can't dismiss this concept.

Mirror: Is this what you mean? You think that Hua Cheng didn't know what to live for, and Xie Lian just so happened to say that line, so Hua Cheng naturally took him as the reason to live, he was obeying an order and too lazy to find a real reason to live, and it's not that Hua Cheng truly fell in love with Xie Lian, because the reasons for love aren't sufficient.

Me: No, it's not like that.

Me: It's that Hua Cheng was in so much pain that he wanted to die, then Xie Lian said you can consider me the meaning of your life, so Hua Cheng made the 【autonomous choice】 to treat Xie Lian as his dream (it's not that he was obeying an order nor was he lazy, it's because he 【autonomously chose】). Hua Cheng's pain hasn't disappeared, but now, because of the existence of his dream, he has the 【courage】 to face this pain, he has the sense of purpose to continue struggling and living on.

Me: But I don't think dreams and love are the same thing.

Mirror: well no sht cuz they have different names

The Most Reasonable Explanation

Ultimately, I believe the most reasonable explanation is inspired by Argument G.

Argument G

Mirror proposed the parallel development theory. Dreams and love are two separately developing entities.

Indeed, dreams and love are two distinct qualities. These two do not have a direct sequence or causality between them but develop along two different trajectories. However, these trajectories are not entirely parallel as Argument G claims; they intersect and twist together. This makes it easy to confuse Hua Cheng's feelings for Xie Lian, defining Hua Cheng's dream as an extreme form of love. The term 'obsession' in English, is originally 执念, but when translated from English back to Chinese, becomes '痴迷' (infatuation). Infatuation implies affection, while obsession does not. Obsession could even be hatred. He Xuan has an obsession with Shi Wudu, but there is no infatuation, no affection. Similarly, love is love, having a dream does not necessarily involve love, and a dream is a dream. A dream is not an extreme form of love.

Thus, Hua Cheng's feelings for Xie Lian have two threads.

First, the dream.

This is a story about dreams, a story between a believer and his god. "If you don't know how to keep living, then live for me." "Your Highness! Did you hear that? In my heart, you are a god! The only god, the true god! Did you hear?" "It doesn't necessarily matter if others are disappointed, I don't care. But for some people, just the existence of someone in this world is hope itself." "To die in battle for you is my greatest honor." "If your dream is to save the common people, then my dream is only you." "I will forever be your most devoted believer."

Hua Cheng's dream began with "live for me." From then on, he would fight for Xie Lian, die for him, shout out for him in the scene of a hundred swords piercing the heart to empathetically bear his pain together, he would go through ten years of hell in Mount Tonglu, digging out his own eyes for Xie Lian because he didn't want to hurt mortals, because saving them was Xie Lian's dream.

Second, love.

A stunning glimpse, a sinking through hundreds of lifetimes. "To witness the one you love being trampled upon and being powerless to help. To realize that there's nothing you can do, that is the most painful thing in the world." "I have a beloved still in this world." "When I like something, nothing else can fit in my heart, I will always remember." "My beloved is a brave noble of golden branches and jade leaves."

When Hong Hong'er first laid eyes on Xie Lian, he was attracted by his beauty and elegance, entranced, and fell off the city wall. But that wasn't love, it was a child's admiration for a gege. Or perhaps, as @baiwu-jinji said (translated):

BWJJ: I think Hua Cheng initially fell for Xie Lian perhaps because of Xie Lian's... maternal gentleness. That's why later on he treats Xie Lian as a wife, right? The search for a wife in men often has traces of an idealized imagination of their mothers, haha.

Me: hahaha maternal gentleness

BWJJ: I really think so! Like that scene where Hua Cheng falls from the city wall and Xie Lian catches him, just like a mom cradling her baby, even that posture I feel is like many statues where Mary is holding baby Jesus, hohoho. And then later in the palace, Hua Cheng throws himself into Xie Lian's arms and cries, it's that kind of seeking maternal comfort feeling.

Later on, Xie Lian rescued Hong'er from Qi Rong's sack, and when Mei Nianqing called him a star of calamity that brings misfortune to all, Xie Lian told him, "You're not, you're not," and Hua Cheng was moved by his gentleness. Hua Cheng witnessed Xie Lian's kindness, witnessed his bravery. Ultimately, the land of tenderness became his enlightenment; it turns out he harboured such improper thoughts towards his god! But this was not because he made Xie Lian his dream, it was because Xie Lian was Xie Lian.

Because there are two threads, this explains some of Hua Cheng's seemingly contradictory actions.

Regarding the respect of wishes. Love is about complying with the other's wishes. Thus, when Xie Lian said not to kneel, Hua Cheng stood to worship. But dreams are selfish. The dream is Hua Cheng insisting on calling him "Your Highness" even after Xie Lian has clearly asked him not to, because "Your Highness is always Your Highness", the dream is Hua Cheng telling Lang Qianqiu the truth about the massacre of the Gilded Banquet, no matter how much Xie Lian struggled to keep it a secret.

Regarding gods and humans. Humans are to be loved. Hua Cheng can see Xie Lian's complexity, treating him as a person of flesh and blood; this is the component of love. In the course of the discussion, many people tried to convince me that Hua Cheng's feelings for Xie Lian are (only) love, emphasizing that Hua Cheng always sees Xie Lian as a person. Yes, that's correct, but in Hua Cheng's heart, Xie Lian is also a god, the only god, the one true god. This is the component of the dream.

Love is about sinking helplessly, it's uncontrollable, it's the loss of free will; but a dream, that's a conscious choice, a pursuit in one's life, the creation of meaning to make sense of one's suffering, the hope for living. Treating someone as a dream, deifying that person, doesn't make Hua Cheng and Xie Lian's relationship unequal. Xie Lian has "the power to destroy the world without losing the heart to cherish flowers," he "is a predecessor, a mentor, a beacon, but not a master," and Hua Cheng does not consider Xie Lian a mere "reward." Hua Cheng's love gives Xie Lian the space to be human. Dreams and love cannot be simplified down to dopamine on a basic level, and on the phenomenal level, they are also not the same thing. Moreover, dreams and love do not have a direct causal relationship; one can have dreams without love, and one can have love without treating the loved one as a dream – these are two independent threads, but they are closely connected, intertwined together.

and with that, i conclude this discussion in 2024.

#hualian #hua cheng #xie lian #tgcf #heaven official's blessing

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diedikind · 13 days

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jun wu in-depth character analysis

this is a repost from 2022 from my old acc which tumblr locked.

Jun Wu never understood what he truly wanted.

【“You’re right, I don’t understand,” Guoshi said. “It’s been so many years; you’ve been a god and you’ve been a ghost king. All that should be killed are dead, all that you’ve wanted is in your hands, so why are you doing this to yourself? What exactly do you want? What do you want to prove?”

Hearing this, a flash of confusion appeared on Jun Wu’s face. 】 (Chapter 240)

On the surface, it seemed as if Jun Wu wanted Xie Lian to follow his footsteps. After all, the first time Mei NianQing asked Jun Wu what he wanted, "[…] he said that he want[ed] [Xie Lian] to become his perfect successor. If there was anyone in the world who could understand him completely, it was [Xie Lian]. Once he succeeded, then [Xie Lian] would never betray him[.]"(Chapter 219) Indeed, Bai Wuxiang always told Xie Lian to "come to [his] side" (Chapters 187, 188, 189) Because when Xie Lian said "body in abyss, heart in paradise", it was like a stab to the chest for Jun Wu (in fact, "stab to the chest" is what the characters Zhu Xin, his sword, means; Xie Lian also pierced Jun Wu through the heart with Zhu Xin during their ultimate battle) because when Jun Wu's own body was in abyss, his heart could not be in paradise. He desparately wanted to show that he wasn't alone in this. How can anyone, even the most kind-hearted Xian Le, have their heart in paradise when their body is in abyss? How can anyone, having gone trough so much pain and suffering, not make the same decisions he himself did? Jun Wu needed Xie Lian to follow his path to validate himself.

But which self?

You see, that's the problem. Jun Wu didn't have a sense of self. "The God-Pleasing Warrior wore a golden mask, playing the role of the number one martial god of a thousand years who subdued evil: The Heavenly Martial Emperor, Jun Wu.”The real Jun Wu pleased the gods just like his impressionist did. Except when Xie Lian leaped to catch the falling Hong Hong'er, the mask fell off -- it stayed on for Jun Wu. Jun Wu kept wearing the mask, hiding his true face. He smashed all the mirrors in the Wuyong Palace, afraid to meet his reflection; he hated when anyone called him by his previous title after that. He never processed his emotions, releasing them into the early kiln, projecting them onto Xie Lian. The black ghost of Jun Wu on Yinian Bridge asked three questions: What is this place? Who Am I? What is to be done? The white ghost of Jun Wu is Bai WuXiang, wherein the characters WuXiang means "no face". He did not have his own face, his own identity, but that of others -- the human face disease. If the living people of Wuyong placed their expectations on their prince, then the deceased burdened him with their resentful spirits. He had always been for the people: when they adored him, he wanted to save them; when they despised him, he wanted to destroy them. His actions depended on external values. He had no sense of self. Jun Wu never knew what he himself truly wanted.

His names were Jun Wu and Bai Wuxiang.

The dichotomy that is his identity caused him to go crazy. God and ghost. So much love and so much hate. Half crying, half smiling. The Heavenly Martial Emperor and the White-Clothed Calamity……

The Prince of Wuyong.

Perhaps only Mei Nianqing knew this side of him.【Xie Lian felt when he was addressing the other as "His Highness", he wasn't talking about “Jun Wu” nor “White No-Face”, but that young Crown Prince of two thousand years prior.】(Chapter 217) That young Crown Prince, covered his face up with a mask, protected his body in white armour, froze his heart beneath layers of Mt. Tonglu snow. Lest we forget that "The widespread backstory of 'The Heavenly Martial Emperor' in the mortal realm, his background, his literary references, his interesting hearsays, appearance, character…[were] all fake.”(Chapter 219) "Jun Wu" was the shell of a man. And oh, how Mei NianQing missed the real him, so much so that the characters NianQing means "miss you". The Guoshi of Xianle once told his disciple, “Remember: when humans ascend, they are still human; when they fall, they are still human.”(Chapter 68). In addition to hitting one of the central themes of TGCF head on, Mei NianQing was, in a sense, speaking about Jun Wu. Between all the forms -- god to ghost -- Mei NianQing appreciated the human Jun Wu most. He was the only person who saw him as human.

And perhaps that was what Jun Wu wanted all along.

The Prince of Wuyong could not stand being "accused […] that he'd changed, that he'd forgotten his heart, that he was no longer the Highness of the past. Those words truly executed the heart." (Chapter 218) And if you were wondering, yes, the characters used for "executed the heart" are Zhu Xin, the name of his sword. In the Kiln:

【White No-Face replied quietly, “With his appearance, neither man nor ghost, no one would treat him with sincerity, so staying in this world was suffering in itself.”

Suddenly, Xie Lian said, “Your Royal Highness?”

“...”

In that instant, Xie Lian could tell; that creature probably wanted to answer to that address, but he held back.】 (Chapter 199)

When Bai Wuxiang said "with his appearance, neither man nor ghost, no one would treat him with sincerity", he wasn't just talking about Lang Ying. He was talking about himself. Xie Lian called him by his previous title, and Bai Wuxiang wanted to answer. He didn't because he thought it was too late to turn back. He had already traveled too far down the path of destruction. Yet, when Jun Wu was finally defeated, "[Xie Lian] actually noticed a trace of relief on Jun Wu’s face, as if a heavy burden was let go. He couldn’t help but wonder—perhaps, to be defeated by someone, to end these relentless days of brokenness and madness, was possibly Jun Wu’s wish deep down." (Chapter 240).

That should answer our question -- which self did Jun Wu want to validate? On the surface, it seemed as if Jun Wu wanted Xie Lian to follow his path of destruction. Beneath it all -- perhaps unconsciously -- he wished Xie Lian could be proof that the Crown Prince of Wuyong wasn't so stupid in his dream after all.

He gifted Xie Lian Hong Jing, the sword that can reveal a ghost's true identity. He never bothered to repair the crack in his armour, the area where Xie Lian told Hua Cheng to attack. And when Xie Lian told him that the trick he used to defeat him was called Shattering Boulders on the Chest, Jun Wu replied, "Beautiful."

If Xie Lian gave himself three days to search for a reason -- the man who gave him the bamboo hat -- to not unleash the human face disease onto Yong An, then Jun Wu spent two thousand years trying to convince himself. In the end, Xie Lian became the man who gave Jun Wu the bamboo hat. Xie Lian stared right into the eyes of the abyss and offered a hand.

To quote Zhihu (a Chinese platform) users:

"Xie Lian is a ray of light in the darkness, and Jun Wu is the darkness with a ray of light in his heart. You and I are both born under the Ominous Star and die against the will of heaven. My inner demon is a raging fire, and your rebirth a torrential rain. For thousands of years, no one has been worthy to slay the hatred inside me except you."

"He is glad that Xie Lian beat him, which shows that Xie Lian's path is also feasible.

It works.

I don't have a chance to take that route but you can.

You did it.

You succeeded.

You can create a better world. "

"Jun Wu gives Xie Lian the black sword, and Xie Lian gives Jun Wu the bamboo hat.

I give you the sword that accompanied me when I was the Crown Prince,

You give me the hand that pulls me out of the abyss. "

"You want to use Xie Lian to affirm yourself.

You don't want Xie Lian to follow your broken path to affirm your current self.

Instead, you hope that Xie Lian will still stick to his heart after facing so many things, so as to affirm the Prince Wuyong back then.

In the rainstorm, we receive a bamboo hat.

Good.

You are unlike me. "

#tgcf #heaven official's blessing #jun wu

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diedikind · 13 days

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thrown off by this change in the revised version of tgcf

the context is that since xie lian went to catch hong hong'er during his god-pleasing warrior performance, someone had to be punished for it, and the options are: 1. xie lian faces confinement or 2. hong hong'er loses one of his senses.

xie lian argues that he's done nothing wrong, so he refuses the first option. mei nianqing guessed this of him, so he ordered people to take hong hong'er away before xie lian can react and to stop xie lian from saving him. and that's when xie lian relents and says fine i'll choose option 1.

a little thrown off because if it were the old xie lian, he probably would be adamant about creating a third path rather than settling for one of the two. i was trying to figure out the point of this change.

well, first of all, this isn't really a one-cup-of-water-two-people type problem since one of the options concerns xie lian himself. so perhaps the point here isn't that he chose one of the two paths but that he chose to sacrifice himself.

the second thing is xie lian didn't actually end up facing confinement because as soon as they shut the door, hong hong'er screamed and attracted a plethora of evil spirits, which caused so much chaos that xie lian ran outside to check what's going on. then afterwards everyone just sorta forgot about his confinement and mei nianqing said you know what, just go and slew some eight hundred demons. so xie lian chirpily said "see, there is a third path!"

(still feels a little iffy because A. xie lian still chose one of the two options even though the result is that he didn't end up stuck with any of them and B. xie lian wasn't the one who created this third path as it was offered to him by mei nianqing)

anyhow, i'll try my best to find a coherent explanation.

as i mentioned in another meta, xie-lian-catching-hong-hong'er-causing-the-mask-to-fall-off symbolises how hua cheng's existence was part of the reason why xie lian's different from jun wu. if we apply the same logic here, then hong hong's presence enables xie lian to choose the third path.

additionally, this scene gives xie lian a reason to believe that the third path comes easily and is very attainable. since mei nianqing just offers it to him like that, the scene adds to the seventeen-year-old crown prince's "privilege" and naivety. it fleshes him out a bit more and builds to his character growth arc of going from someone who claims "heart in paradise" even without having experienced "body in abyss" to someone who truly achieves "heart in paradise" even after experiencing "body in abyss".

(finally, side note on hua cheng losing one of his senses. i thought this was new but it actually wasn’t — thank you to the person in the comments for pointing it out. i suspect it would be his sight if they had actually gone through with it, adding another layer of meaning to hua cheng digging out his own eye almost as a tribute to what xie lian chose here.)

#xie lian #tgcf #heaven official's blessing #hua cheng #hualian #mei nianqing

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diedikind · 19 days

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Xie Lian taking away Lang Qianqiu’s freedom to choose his own path?

i’ve already addressed this in a reblog post but now that i’ve finished book 1 of the revised version i’d like to offer a more comprehensive analysis.

someone pointed out that in the revised version, xie lian seems much more “selfish”, that he is no better than White No-Face because he also lied to Lang Qianqiu to shape him into the kind of person he wanted him to be.

【Lang Qianqiu said sharply, "You still deny it?! For so many years, you've kept me from knowing who my real enemy is, you've deceived me yet made me grow into the person you wanted! To achieve this, you'd rather be thought of as the murderous culprit of the bloody massacre at the Gilded Banquet, allowing me to drive forty-nine nails into your chest and into the coffin! Guoshi, you're really something!"

With every sentence, Xie Lian couldn't argue because it was the truth. So, all he could do was despairingly say, "It's not like that."】 (new scene from revised version)

as i mentioned in my other post, a narrative that weaves its way through tgcf is how xie lian is supposed to be a parental/teacher figure toward lang qianqiu, and that such figures exist to the end of protecting/guiding children; even in modern society research has shown that the adolescent brain doesn’t develop fully until around 25 years of age, insofar as they shouldn’t be given complete free reign over many areas, for example we have laws pertaining to the legal age of driving or the legal age of drinking, we have age ratings for media and put minors dni in our bios… etc. in other words, it is not xie lian’s onus to completely leave lang qianqiu be to figure out his life. of course, lang qianqiu is a couple hundreds years old, but we will stick to the theoreticals of their what their relationship represents.

a brief aside about culture, i think western culture tends to place much more emphasis on individual choice / freedom in general, versus during my time in Chinese fandom nobody thought this was a problem. haha at the risk of sounding like communist propaganda, choice is not always good. for example, Barry Schwartz introduced the concept of the paradox of choice, which illustrates that while a variety of options allows for more freedom and autonomy, it can also lead to greater dissatisfaction, indecision, and paralysis; this is why businesses avoid presenting consumers with a wide array of products or services, because it could overwhelm them and lead them to give up purchasing anything in the end.

xie lian makes a similar argument:

【Indeed, whether the talisman burns could determine the life or death of what's inside the pot. But if the answer was "alive," it would be easy to kill whatever was inside right there and then. If the pot contained a little rabbit, a small demon, or even a human soul, then the gamble wouldn't be fun at all.

Shaking his head, Xie Lian said, "It's not that I'm worried. Of course, I know you wouldn't do such a thing. I just think it's better not to give others the chance to make such a choice.”】 (new scene from revised version)

this relates to the one-cup-of-water-two-people (i have no idea how to translate this properly) problem, in which no matter who you choose to give the water to, no matter which of the Two Paths you choose, it would always feel as if you’ve done something wrong. it’s a zero-sum game. similarly, alluding to the trolley problem, whether you pull the lever or not, you would either be killing someone or leaving others to die.

xie lian’s philosophy, then, is to prevent a situation such as the trolley problem from happening in the first place. he wants to spare the pain of the decision. he wants to eradicate the “two-paths” narrative.

hua cheng embodies the same philosophy. a few years ago, i asked a friend, how do you think xie lian would choose if he were to do the trolley problem, except on one track we have hua cheng, on the other track we have all the common people? and then i realised — hua cheng would probably willingly die for xie lian so he does not have to make the choice.

choice is burdensome.

another thing i want to point out is the popular phrase circulating on the Chinese internet “因为自己淋过雨，所以想给别人撑把伞” (“Having been drenched in the rain myself, I wish to hold an umbrella for others.”), in which there is no “neutral” option; there is no “support others in finding their own umbrellas”. in that sense, xie lian merely acts as a foil to bai wuxiang by doing the opposite of what he did. i do not think mxtx considered the “in-between” option of giving lang qianqiu the freedom to choose.

having finished rereading book 1, i realised that there is a line in it that directly mirrors the above.

【what he has endured enough himself already, he cannot bear to let another go through it as well.】

hua cheng also adds his own perspective to balance things out:

【He also sat down beside Xie Lian and said, "Moreover, if you value [Lang Qianqiu] so much, why can't you trust him?"

Xie Lian lifted his face from his arms. Hua Cheng said lightly, "Trust that since he is the one you've chosen, he will not lose himself in hatred. Even if he once wished to destroy the entire world, in the end, he will do what he must.”】

in the end, linking back to the narrative that xie lian is lang qianqiu’s parental/teacher figure:

【Lang Qianqiu looked as if he wished he could cover his ears: "Why are you lecturing me like this? What gives you the right to act as my master?"

Xie Lian replied, "It won't happen again." Lang Qianqiu was startled, and Xie Lian added, "This is the last time. Faults need fixing, and the rest is up to you to figure out slowly on your own."】

a popular interpretation amongst Chinese fans is that only upon his third ascension did xie lian “truly” ascend. if we read TGCF as a bildungsroman, xie lian starts off as a naive crown prince who matures through these 800 years. in parallel, then, we have just witnessed the inciting incident to lang qianqiu’s character growth arc. this is the beginning of his coming-of-age.

#xie lian #lang qianqiu #tgcf #heaven official's blessing

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diedikind · 19 days

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bridal sedan scene and allusion to the crying-smiling mask

given that jun wu was the one who sent the fetus spirit, “should only cry, not laugh” also alludes to the crying half of the crying-laughing mask, but xie lian chose to smile, as he always does.

#xie lian #tgcf #heaven official's blessing

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diedikind · 19 days

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jun wu’s smile deepened on his face

thinking about how jun wu must feel. bemused, yes, but mei nianqing also tells us that his perceived happiness positively correlates with his anger. reflecting on himself, all the heinous crimes he’s committed and how he’s still here, his ego could never take being banished to be a mere mortal. he must hate xie lian for his moral upstanding. maybe admires him for it a little.

#jun wu #xie lian #tgcf #heaven official's blessing

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diedikind · 20 days

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the General of Big D and posting “blessing”s upside down

the story of how Feng Xin ended up with the name Ju Yang (big D) reminds me of the story of why Chinese people hang the character that means “blessing” (福）upside down on their doors during Chinese New Year.

one version of it is:

On the eve of the Spring Festival during the reign of Emperor Xianfeng of the Qing Dynasty, the chief steward of the Prince Gong's mansion, aiming to please his master, wrote several large "福" (blessing) characters to be posted on the storeroom and the mansion's main gate. However, one of the servants, being illiterate, accidentally posted the "福" character upside down on the main gate. This greatly annoyed the prince's consort (wife), who wanted to punish the servant with a whipping. Fortunately, the chief steward was a persuasive and eloquent speaker. Fearing the consort would blame him and affect his own standing, he quickly knelt down and explained: "I have often heard people say that Prince Gong has a long life and great fortune. Now that the '福' has 'arrived' (which is a homophone to “being upside down”), it is a sign of good luck." Upon hearing this, the prince's consort went from anger to joy, thinking: "No wonder passersby have been saying that Prince Gong's fortune has 'arrived.' A saying repeated a thousand times can bring wealth in gold and silver. An ordinary servant couldn't have thought of this!" Consequently, she rewarded both the steward and the servant with 50 taels of silver each. Later on, the custom of posting the "福" character upside down spread from the mansions of officials to the homes of ordinary people, hoping that passersby or mischievous children would chant "The fortune has arrived! The fortune has arrived!" for good luck.

#feng xin #tgcf #heaven official's blessing

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diedikind · 20 days

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xie lian’s memory

(this is a repost because i lost my other acc)

thinking about how xie lian recognises feng xin but not mu qing upon his third ascension, because while yes, mu qing’s way of speaking changed, xie lian also admits that he doesn’t remember the last time they met, which was when mu qing gifted xie lian and feng xin bags of rice but xie lian told him to scram. i found it odd since our affective system influences the encoding of episodic memory; emotionally charged events tend to leave strong impressions on us.

anyway the best explanation i found is a quote xie lian says in ch. 26:

"Instead of remembering being stabbed and trampled hundreds of times centuries ago, isn't it better to recall the delicious meat bun you had yesterday?”

i think something that xie lian’s cognitive structure does is repress “inappropriate” emotions, which are often those that do not lend themselves to a sunny disposition, similar to how jun wu discards his anger/resentment into the kiln, xie lian doesn’t really tell anyone of the things he’s experienced, perhaps not wanting to burden anyone with them but more so, i believe, because there were people who looked up to and depended on him, so he’s had this habit of not allowing himself to show any negativity/weakness. another thing that his cognitive structure does is trivialize his tribulations; i find that xie lian tends to have a “everything’s fine haha” attitude and minimize problems. hence he navigates the past by glossing over the events that make him uncomfortable. and the kindness that people show him always outweighs the pain.

#xie lian #feng xin #tgcf #heaven official's blessing

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diedikind · 20 days

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i thought this line was beautiful and so wanted to translate it. since ruoye latched on to san lang, i think this could also insinuate that hua cheng grounds him in a way, not only in the sense that whenever xie lian spirals into overthinking / anxiety (like when he doubted whether what he did was right concerning lang qianqiu, or when he feared that he was the crown prince of wuyong, or when he was afraid he couldn’t win against jun wu), hua cheng would always tell him something along the lines of, don’t think too much, just do what you think is right, i’ll always be here, trust me; but also in the sense that as xie lian ascends to the heavens, hua cheng reminds him that he is human.

#hualian #xie lian #hua cheng #tgcf #heaven official's blessing

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diedikind · 20 days

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a new phrase that kept repeating in the revised version of tgcf

"All in with one bet, even in death, there will be no regrets.”

This phrase now appears in Chapters 33, 35, 38, and 40 of the revised version (perhaps more, but i only just finished book 1). Screenshots below.

i think it primarily refers to how Hua Cheng gifted his ashes to Xie Lian, which is an extremely risky move -- an "all in with one bet" -- as it’s equivalent to handing your life to someone, and as Xie Lian commented “The human heart is unpredictable. Devoting oneself wholeheartedly, if only to end up utterly destroyed and scattered to the winds, would indeed be heartbreaking.”

and back then Hua Cheng said, "What's there to fear? If it were me, I'd send my ashes off without a care, whether they want to crush and scatter them or just toss them around for fun.”

because Xie Lian is worth it, and he is willing to die for him, again and again.

similarity, the bamboo hat man shows Xie Lian that saving the common people is worth it, and he is willing to stab/sacrifice himself for the pursuit, again and again.

so i think this phrase highlights not just Hua Cheng’s devotion toward Xie Lian but also what it means to chase one’s dreams in general.

it’s something that both of them can agree on.

(i also wrote a meta about sacrifice and the pursuit of dreams here.)

Screenshots:

#hualian #hua cheng #xie lian #tgcf #heaven official's blessing

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diedikind · 24 days

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Qi Rong, the Ghost King of Mirrors - Pt. 1

Before we begin, I must thank @diedikind who incited me to create this meta! They also write good TGCF metas as well, so if you have the time please check them out! Another thing to note is that I am writing this meta using mostly the unrevised version as my main source material. While I have read the Fangxin arc in the revised version and seen tidbits of the changes done to his character, I may not be aware of them all, so please keep that in mind. Also, don't be afraid to correct me if I accidentally got my facts wrong!

I’ve been thinking a lot about Qi Rong lately. In particular about his prince name, Xiao Jing (小镜). It roughly means “Little Mirror”/“Little King of Mirrors” (as @diedikind pointed out in the notes of this post) and frankly? There’s no better name MXTX could have chosen, because when you really look at him, you know that, both as a narrative device and as a character, “mirror” is very much what he is. He serves as a foil to a good number of characters, but also reflects a lot of traits from his environment and people around him, not to mention his habit of literally copying others. This is all reflected on how much Qi Rong tries to have his own identity, but because he’s stuck in an immature mentality, refusing to grow up, he ends ups stuck in a “child” role, making it impossible to truly have an identity of his own. This is even lampshaded by Hua Cheng in the aftermath of the mecha battle as Qi Rong is “dying”, when he notes that there’s nothing really noteworthy about him, despite Qi Rong always working towards standing out from the others. There’s a lot to unpack about his mirror symbolism, so I cut it in parts. This one is going to focus on how he mirrors Xie Lian and the Kingdom of Xianle itself. This is also quite long, so don’t open “read more” unless you’re ready to read a big Qi Rong meta.

Qi Rong, Xie Lian and the Kingdom of Xianle

“I don’t need your help, not like this. Are you really avenging me? Or are you avenging yourself?” - Xie Lian, Chapter 26

The most obvious foil Qi Rong has is Xie Lian, the protagonist himself. His relationship with Xie Lian is by far the most important alongside Guzi, something that is made obvious with how obsessed Qi Rong is with him, a fixation that also mirrors Hua Cheng's and Jun Wu's (I will touch on this in on another part). The mirror symbolism already starts early on in his life, with him being immediately noted to be similar to Xie Lian when they’re children, and if I remember correctly his prince name was even given to him because of said similarity. Since childhood Qi Rong was already seen as nothing more than a “little mirror” of Xie Lian, and, after the lantern incident, Qi Rong himself (probably subconsciously) started to see himself as such too. From there, Qi Rong starts to project his entire identity and psychological needs onto Xie Lian. He’s never been a very well liked figure since he arrived in the castle, but that doesn’t matter, because Xie Lian is. He’s not a very accomplished person, but that doesn’t matter, because Xie Lian is. He may not be a god, but that doesn’t matter, because Xie Lian is. Unfortunately, this is two-street: he also views Xie Lian as a “big mirror” of himself. Someone insults Xie Lian? That’s seen as a direct insult to him too, so he feels entitled to beat them up, even when that’s not what Xie Lian wants at all. This is likely the main reason on why he hurt Hong-er (alongside of what was probably jealousy too, but that’s for another analysis for another day), lampshaded by Xie Lian himself: he saw Hong-er changing the course the God-Pleasing Ceremony as a sign of bad luck and an insult to Xie Lian, and therefore an insult to himself too, ergo, he’s entitled to hurt him, or, using Xie Lian’s words, “avenge himself”. Aside from himself, he also projects his dire need for a paternal figure onto Xie Lian too (this is better explained in this meta translated by @baiwu-jinji), viewing him as a source of power, safety and affection. In other words, everything Qi Rong wants to have and wants to be, he projects onto Xie Lian. That’s why Qi Rong was among the first to turn against Xie Lian after the walls fell: if Xie Lian fails, he’ll be viewed as a failure. If Xie Lian is a laughing stock, he’ll be viewed as one too. If Xie Lian couldn’t protect the kingdom (and by extension Qi Rong himself) from Yong’an, then that means he failed at the role he subconsciously put Xie Lian in: the role of a father. This is why his obsessive hatred towards Xie Lian is so singular, but, despite all that, Qi Rong deep down still craves his attention and understanding (another Jun Wu parallel - i will also touch on this in another part). He hates his “father”, but he still doesn’t give up that idea towards Xie Lian, even calling himself mockingly his “little brother”. This may be why MXTX made him force Xie Lian to take care of him and Guzi in the revised version instead of Xie Lian being the one forcing him to stay in Puqi shrine: no matter how much Qi Rong despises him, he still sees his cousin as his “caretaker” in a way. And this is just me theorizing now, but part of me thinks his lantern symbolism/aesthetic may be a way of mirroring the lantern incident, the moment that truly made him Xie Lian’s little distorted mirror.

We already went through Qi Rong’s point of view of their relationship, but the mirror symbolism doesn’t stop there. From both a narrative standpoint and Xie Lian’s point of view, Qi Rong serves as a little mirror of the Kingdom of Xianle itself. Being half-xianle and half-yong’an, he went through both worlds, and as much as Qi Rong denies his Yong’an half, he was just as shaped by his experiences there as when he was in the capital of Xianle. He’s been both the poor and abused kid from Yong’an (it was only in his first five years of life, but these years are very important in a person’s life), a scandal and sore thumb in his family tree, and he’s also been a privileged Xianle royal who abused his power to get what he wanted like so many other royals. Hell, Xie Lian himself tells us he probably became worse over the years by mirroring the King and the rowdy crowd he hung out with in his youth. This post made by @essekknits points out the fact that Qi Rong has always been mimicking and mirroring those around him, especially the ones he perceives as having power, without ever understanding the logic behind their actions, and this is something he keeps doing long after the fall of Xianle. Even after death, he continues to haunt Yong’an, being responsible for the Gilded Massacre, an event that contributed to the decline of the kingdom, a literal and metaphorical ghost from a bygone era that nonetheless is still felt. This is why MXTX making the confrontation between Qi Rong, Xie Lian and Lang Qianqiu in the Mausoleum in the revised version, complete with the later two, viewed as “enemies” of Xianle, being severely weakened there while Qi Rong had made the place a lair for himself, is a change I actually like a lot. He’s the personification of Xianle who even after death continues haunting both Xie Lian and Yong’an. This is why Xie Lian’s hatred for Qi Rong is very singular too: Qi Rong is a mirror of everything he hated about Xianle. He represents the cruel nobles who used their power for selfish reasons and the people who adored and revered him but constantly went against his wishes and then went on to betray and humiliate him once he couldn’t keep up with their expectations. Xie Lian was treated like an adult with responsibilities way beyond his age, being forced to grow up early, and Qi Rong putting him in a “fatherly” role encapsulates that. He often had to “parent” Qi Rong (something that ultimately failed) when no one else did despite being a child himself, just like how he became a god too early and had to attend to the needs of multiple people who put all their expectations on him. Even after Qi Rong's death, Xie Lian is still forced to clean up after his messes, from having to protect Lang Qianqiu from him, to having to seal him up after the Guilded Massacre, to ultimately ending up in a coffin for roughly 100 years because of his shenanigans. Even in the events of the current timeline Xie Lian was still forced to “parent” Qi Rong often when he was in Puqi Shrine.

(As a side note, one thing I found curious was Qi Rong begging for Xie Lian to save him as Hua Cheng was beating up in the mausoleum in the revised version, even wondering how Xie Lian could even let him in. It could be chalked up to pure entitlement and a complete lack of self-awareness on Qi Rong’s part (which it is), but I think it also illustrates very well the fact that, despite viewing Xie Lian as a failed parental figure, he still expects him to protect him like a father should. It can also represent the fact that, even after completely rejecting Xie Lian, he’s still somewhat viewed as the protector god of Xianle, despite being branded as a traitor.)

With this all being said, there’s one last thing Qi Rong mirrors with Xie Lian: his character journey. It’s not very noticeable at first, but it’s still there. Like Xie Lian, Qi Rong starts out as a prince who ends up falling from grace after his kingdom collapsed. In the same way Xie Lian is seen as the laughingstock of the heavens, Qi Rong is hated and viewed as a pure nuisance by most of the ghost realm. And while the circumstances are completely different, the thing that helped save Xie Lian in one of his lowest points, which was the genuine kindness of the Bamboo Hat man and his own kindness towards Hong-er/Hua Cheng, is also what made a better side of Qi Rong resurface: the genuine affection Guzi had towards him. Even in his worst moments, Guzi never gave up on Qi Rong, and I think this is what ultimately made him a bit better towards the end. (I will shut myself now about his relationship and mirror symbolism with Guzi because that’s for another part).

As pointed out in this post by @baiwu-jinji, something I think is worth talking about is that his relationship with Xie Lian is probably meant to mirror the obsessions of fans and antis towards celebrities. I may be wrong about this, but considering MXTX’s own experiences with these sorts of people, I have high doubts this wasn’t the intention, and she’s no stranger in writing characters with this sort of commentary (hello, Shen Yuan). This may be why he became more deranged in the revised version too. He’s probably meant to represent the kinds of fans who place all their self-worth and identity onto their favorite celebrities, acting as if they know them personally and attacking other people in their name (often against the celebrity’s wishes), sometimes even viewing them as quasi-parental figures in more extreme cases of parasocial relationships. These kinds of fans usually become enraged when the celebrities they love end up “falling from grace” in their eyes, and they usually go on to become the worst of haters, who keep on obsessing over said celebrity, but this time to bring them down, harass and humiliate them.

(As another side note, while I think Qi Rong is not a character made with love, I don’t think he’s meant to be a pure hate sink either. MXTX still went out of her way to humanize him enough, and she gave him a subtle character arc with Guzi, which I will talk about on another part of this meta. Hell, the mere fact that he has so many facets to talk about is a sign of good character crafting, and he’s not even a main character!)

#woah this is your first meta?#so good #will quote some parts i enjoyed #“but that doesn’t matter because xie lian is”#seeing hurt toward xie lian as hurt toward himself #qi rong as a personification of the kingdom #qi rong representing everything xie lian hated about xianle #oh #guzi never giving up on qi rong

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diedikind · 24 days

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Jun Wu and His Inability to Deal with Failure

thinking about how Jun Wu wanted to save the common people, how he wanted to choose the third path (building his sky bridge) but how he failed. he didn’t just fail in his project but also in living up to the image of the god who can do anything he set out to do, and that was what his ego cared more about.

he couldn’t stomach his failure. as a result, the first thing he sought to do was to sacrifice prisoners into the kiln so he can stop the volcano from erupting and subsequently achieve the image of “saving the common people”, even when his actions proved contradictory. in effect, he gave up on the third path and opted for one of the two.

and when his vassals caught him, the same three who accused him of betraying his principles / giving up on the third path, which effectively tore apart the image his ego constructed and reminded him of his true self — the second thing he did was push them into the kiln, and here i have a somewhat odd interpretation, he didn’t do it because he was simply angry at them for not supporting him, but because they did not validate the image of him which he desperately tried to sustain.

the third thing he did was blood-wash the entire heavens, again, somewhat odd interpretation, not out of revenge but because he did not want anyone who witnessed his failure to be alive:

【All the predecessor officials of the heavenly realm have perished, leaving no one who knows exactly who he is, nor anyone who knows what he used to be like.】 (Ch. 219)

he couldn’t acknowledge that he has failed, so much so that he needed Xie Lian to make the same choices he did so he can forgive himself and say, maybe it was alright that i failed, because anyone who’s in the same situation would abandon the third path, because the dream was impossible anyway.

it’s not that he doesn’t want to save the common people anymore, since i genuinely believe that the crown prince of Wuyong is still in there somewhere, but because he failed and couldn’t for the life of him admit that he did, so he needed to convince himself that he never wanted it in the first place, that the dream is stupid.

and this is what caused his dissonance and dichotomy, because on the one hand he still wants to save the common people, but on the other hand he’s trying to convince himself that he doesn’t.

meanwhile, xie lian was able to look failure in the face and say, let’s try again. xie lian no longer cares about being the laughing stock of the three realms. he can say “i can’t get it up” to Jian Lan. he can say “look at me, l've also managed to live up to now with quite a thick skin” to Yin Yu. he has let go of his image and subsequently his shame.

something i remember vividly from the second flashback is:

【Bai Wuxiang seemed to see right through his thoughts, sizing him up for a moment before speaking softly, "It's alright. From now on, there will be nothing to bind you, no one will hold undue expectations of you, and no one will know who you really are. Therefore, you are free to do anything you wish."】

because that’s what is bothering jun wu, failing to live up to people’s expectations of him.

but to xie lian, it doesn’t matter. it’s ironic, really, that bai wuxiang wears a mask because he cares too much about his image and saving face, and that xie lian can live as himself almost shamelessly, which in Chinese is 不要脸, literally translating to “doesn’t want face”.

#jun wu #xie lian #tgcf #heaven official's blessing

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diedikind · 24 days

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TGCF and the Detachment from Outcomes

in Buddhism, detachment refers to the relinquishing of attachment to desires and the outcomes of actions. it is the understanding that attachment leads to suffering. (re: suffering, i have also written a meta about it in relation to the pursuit of dreams in TGCF.)

it seems paradoxical to say that given dreams are what we use to makes sense of our suffering and create meaning for our life, we should detach ourselves from it, especially since Xie Lian stubbornly persists in (which has the connotation of latching onto) his dream, and so does Hua Cheng, whose obsession maintains his existence after his death. but there is a nuanced distinction between deeply engaging with the process of chasing one’s dream and not caring about the outcome of it. i would like to argue that both Hua Cheng and Xie Lian don’t “care” about their dreams in this latter regard, and that the crown prince of Wuyong’s downfall lies with him caring too much.

starting with Hua Cheng, in being Xie Lian’s most devoted believer, he does not expect any reciprocation on Xie Lian’s part. even though Xie Lian is his dream, he does not care about whether he “achieves” his dream or not. he does not allow his sense of fulfillment to depend on the extrinsic nature of what his god could give him in return, though of course, he would be extra happy if Xie Lian did acknowledge him, the key is that he does not depend on it to motivate himself. instead, he is good to Xie Lian, respects his wishes such as praying without kneeling, develops himself to be strong enough so that he can protect his god.

moving on to Xie Lian, there are two lines from the novel that stood out to me:

1. from when xie lian was conversing with Ban Yue outside Puqi Shrine, 【This phrase [that his dream is to save the common people] was clearly his favorite before he turned seventeen. In the centuries that followed, he shouldn't have mentioned it at all!】

2. during the ultimate battle with Jun Wu, and actually throughout his history with Bai Wuxiang, 【He's probably right. Xie Lian cannot win. But even if he can't win, he must fight!】

it doesn’t matter if he can’t win, doesn’t matter if he can’t “achieve” his dream, the important thing is in trying itself, in which Xie Lian no longer talks the talk of “i want to save the common people!” but instead embodies it, taking action in saving people whenever he gets the opportunity. his dream ceases to be a distant outcome but a way of living.

in contrast, the crown prince of Wuyong was adamant about sacrificing people, albeit criminals, into the kiln in order to stop the volcano from erupting, because he was attached to the outcome of saving the common people as well as the image of a god who never fails. in order to achieve this outcome and sustain his image, he gradually deviated from his principles, saying that he wants to save people while killing them. (i will not personally assert that this is wrong, though, because this is just a utilitarian framework of ethics, and i believe that people are free to adhere to their own ethical frameworks without any standard being intrinsically more valuable than another, but i will say that under TGCF’s narrative, Jun Wu’s actions seem to be at odds with his ideals, which is what led to his dissonance and dichotomy.)

by the way, i don’t think this analysis would be possible under the old version of TGCF, because while i can sense that a deontological/Kantian argument is what the story hints at given the two lines i quoted above, Xie Lian at times expresses inconsistent standards. i do not wish to get into this, mainly because back then it gave me a headache. just know that in the revised version, 1. Xie Lian did not kill any soldiers in the Yong’an war and 2. Xie Lian did not kill Lang Qianqiu’s parents.

#tgcf #heaven official's blessing #xie lian #hua cheng #jun wu

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diedikind · 24 days

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reminds me of this panel from Chainsaw Man actually.

the nine crappy movies (suffering) is what gives value to the tenth good one (dream).

TGCF, Suffering, and the Pursuit of Dreams

life is inherently suffering*; true purpose is what you’re willing to suffer for.

^this isn’t anything new as philosophers have made the same argument with different words over and over again throughout history**. the basic idea is that there is no way around the pain that comes with living except through, that no matter what you choose to do you will inevitably face difficulty because nothing comes easily, and so with that in mind you might as well take the responsibility of the your freedom to pick your suffering, to decide what it is that matters to you enough that you are willing to endure the pain to see it through. another way to look at it is knowing that we will all die anyway, choose what you want to die for. and make that your reason for living.

for hua cheng, he chooses to suffer for xie lian, because xie lian is his dream. he would go into battle for him, die in battle for him, cry out and empathetically bear his pain for him during the hundred swords scene, go through a decade of hell in mt tonglu for him, dig out his eye for him because he doesn’t want to hurt the common people as saving them is xie lian’s dream,

and xie lian chooses to suffer for his dream, too.

when we are young, we often make grand claims about our future such as “I want to be an author!” without really know what that means. then our parents tell us that hey, maybe that’s not a viable way to make a living, maybe you should study something like economics instead, and we retort, why can’t we get the best of both worlds, why can’t we make money as an author or write while studying economics, why can’t we hold an inkwell in one hand and copper coins in the other, why can’t we choose the third path***? and even if we hit rock bottom / the south wall**** we will persist in our dream and not turn back?

and so xie lian says “my dream is to save the common people!”, he says “body in abyss, heart in paradise,” he wants to pursue the third path without knowing what it means. it’s easy to claim you want to do something when you have yet to face any difficulty that that something brings.

so bai wuxiang shows him.

【Speaking, he twisted Xie Lian's face even harder with his other hand, saying, "What? Aren't you the one who claims to want to save the common people?"

Xie Lian said, "But!!! But I, I..."

But he had never thought about saving the common people in this situation, with this method?!】

he understands for the first time the suffering that serves the other face of his dream’s coin. he understands for the first time that having exhausted the two options in front of him, the third path requires personal sacrifice.

(many mxtx antis in China use this scene to justify their hatred toward xie lian, arguing that indeed, “it was xie lian himself who claimed to want to save the common people yet when the time comes he is reluctant? sheesh.” but i think that that’s the whole point of xie lian’s character growth arc, in which he starts off as a naive crown prince who doesn’t know what his dream entails.)

but now he does, and he still chooses to persist. he chose his suffering. in a way, the suffering we’re willing to endure for our dream is a metric that measures how much it is worth to us. before i mentioned that words are empty and that a dream doesn’t mean anything until you have experienced the suffering attached to it, but the reverse is also true: chasing a dream is what gives meaning to our suffering.*****

Appendix

*I would like to substantiate the premise “life is inherently suffering” from two angles since it’s a little wobbly.

The first is from an economics perspective, the notion of opportunity cost, which is defined by the next best thing, or the option that gives you the second-highest utility that you are willing to forgo to choose something else. There is always a cost to every choice you make simply because our time and attention are scarce resources. The greatest opportunity cost is arguably one’s life.

The second is from a cognitive-neuroscience perspective. The predictive processing framework of human cognition asserts that we are predictive machines in that we constantly process information around us to generate a model or mental schema of the world, a map of the territory to make sense of it. and we are constant comparing our schema to the actuality of the world which results in a discrepancy (because due to our cognitive limitations we can never perceive reality in its entirety). This discrepancy is called “error” and our affective system signals the magnitude of the error. for example, fulfilment is when your schema aligns with reality; anger is when your schema clashes with reality or the schema of another person; fear is when your schema is too porous such that your ignorant of reality makes you afraid. to put it simply error is painful.

there are three ways to reduce error, 1. recalibrate your schema to fit reality 2. change the world to fit your schema and 3. tune the precision (confidence) of your schema so that it is no longer relevant i.e. you realize you don’t care anymore.

in the context of tgcf you can think of xie lian’s idealism as his mental schema which reality inevitably falls short from. whenever we wish to act on the world we are in effect altering reality in a way to fit our mental schema, the process of which entails an engagement with the error and hence pain.

** Nietzsche, Fyodor Dostoevsky, Viktor Frankl, and most recently Mark Manson in his book The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck

*** the reason why I’m using such an odd example is because MXTX’s name 墨香铜臭 mo xiang tong xiu means the fragrance of ink and the smell of money. The reason she chose this name is because, when she first went to college, she wanted to major in literature. However, her mother disagreed. Her mother suggested she study economics instead, and because their opinions differed, she wasn't very happy.

**** The south wall, also known as a shadow wall, is a type of wall in traditional Chinese architecture used to block the line of sight. The main entrances of Chinese buildings generally face south, and in the old days, households of status and power would have a shadow wall outside their main gate. Upon exiting, one had to turn either left or right, as walking straight ahead would lead to a collision with the southern wall. "Banging one's head against the south wall" 头撞南墙 is an idiomatic expression that refers to being stubbornly fixated on an idea, using this phenomenon to metaphorically describe someone's behavior as obstinate and unwilling to listen to differing opinions.

***** i am not claiming that suffering is good. choice is good. there is nothing empowering about the hundred swords scene.

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diedikind · 24 days

Text

TGCF, Suffering, and the Pursuit of Dreams

life is inherently suffering*; true purpose is what you’re willing to suffer for.

^this isn’t anything new as philosophers have made the same argument with different words over and over again throughout history**. the basic idea is that there is no way around the pain that comes with living except through, that no matter what you choose to do you will inevitably face difficulty because nothing comes easily, and so with that in mind you might as well take the responsibility of your freedom to pick your suffering, to decide what it is that matters to you enough that you are willing to endure the pain to see it through. another way to look at it is knowing that we will all die anyway, choose what you want to die for. and make that your reason for living.

and xie lian chooses to suffer for his dream, too.

when we are young, we often make grand claims about our future such as “I want to be an author!” without really knowing what that means. then our parents tell us that hey, maybe that’s not a viable way to make a living, maybe you should study something like economics instead, and we retort, why can’t we get the best of both worlds, why can’t we make money as an author or write while studying economics, why can’t we hold an inkwell in one hand and copper coins in the other, why can’t we choose the third path***? and even if we hit rock bottom / the south wall**** we will persist in our dream and not turn back?

so bai wuxiang shows him.

【Speaking, he twisted Xie Lian's face even harder with his other hand, saying, "What? Aren't you the one who claims to want to save the common people?"

Xie Lian said, "But!!! But I, I..."

But he had never thought about saving the common people in this situation, with this method?!】

but now he does, and he still chooses to persist. he picks his suffering. he decides that his dream is worth suffering for.

(much of this is to say that i am often genuinely confused by TGCF fans' attitude toward Hua Cheng's suffering vs. Xie Lian's suffering. most readers do not bat an eye at the sacrifices Hua Cheng made for his dream, or maybe "bat an eye" is the wrong use of phrase here, but at least it's painted as something romantic. when it comes to Xie Lian sacrificing himself to save the common people, though, we react differently, even when both of them are choosing what they're willing to suffer for, which is empowering. i am thinking of potential counterarguments, one of which could be that "objectively" Xie Lian is a dream worth suffering for while the dream of "saving the common people" is not, but i would argue that when Wu Ming stood by Calamity!Lian, it is not objectively guaranteed (subjectively, Hua Cheng has faith) that Xie Lian will not turn out to be the next Jun Wu and hurt Hua Cheng. in effect Xie Lian's calamity era was to Hua Cheng what the hundred swords scene was to Xie Lian -- trials to test the strength of your faith you have toward your dream. Additionally, the common people are not all bad just as the state of Xie Lian (to fall from grace is also you; what matters is you -- the dream) changes as well.)

in a way, the suffering we’re willing to endure for our dream is a metric that measures how much it is worth to us. before i mentioned that words are empty and that a dream doesn’t mean anything until you have experienced the suffering attached to it, but the reverse is also true: chasing a dream is what gives meaning to our suffering.*****

Appendix

*I would like to substantiate the premise “life is inherently suffering” from two angles since it’s a little wobbly.

The second is from a cognitive-neuroscience perspective. The predictive processing framework of human cognition asserts that we are predictive machines in that we constantly process information around us to generate a model or mental schema of the world, a map of the territory to make sense of it. and we are constant comparing our schema to the actuality of the world which results in a discrepancy (because due to our cognitive limitations we can never perceive reality in its entirety). This discrepancy is called “error” and our affective system signals the magnitude of the error. for example, fulfilment is when your schema aligns with reality; anger is when your schema clashes with reality or the schema of another person; fear is when your schema is too porous such that your ignorance of reality makes you afraid. to put it simply error is painful.

** Nietzsche, Fyodor Dostoevsky, Viktor Frankl, and most recently Mark Manson in his book The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck

***** i am not claiming that suffering is good. choice is good. there is nothing empowering about the hundred swords scene.

#xie lian #hua cheng #tgcf #heaven official's blessing #mxtx

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diedikind · 25 days

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prefacing and also tagging this with #junlian so OP/people who might be uncomfortable with the ship can avoid reading what i wish to add.

this makes it sound much more selfish. like he was primarily just interested in protecting lang qianqiu's idealism.

it feels like this part leans into the bwx themes and parallels. about lying to / manipulating a junior you see as similar to yourself, about just having a fixed goal about what kind of person to shape them into rather than respecting them...

while the revised version definitely highlights this aspect more, i believe the original text already harboured such undertones for Xie Lian’s character because before the new books came out, i used to have the same qualms as OP about Xie Lian taking away Lang Qianqiu’s freedom to choose his own path and tried to explore/experiment with potential solutions to my cognitive dissonance in bai wuxiang/xie lian fics I wrote. for example:

This time, there were two people on that swing.

“There’s unrest in Yong’an,” Wuyong murmured, his gaze distant. “The public face of it: the ruler and his heir succumbed to sickness. Behind closed doors, it’s anarchy. A nephew of Lang Ying now wears the crown.”

Xie Lian felt nothing inside. "Is that so?"

Wuyong’s gaze fixed on him. "What are your plans for the future?"

Shrugging, Xie Lian’s words floated with a trace of resignation, “I’ll keep scavenging, collecting what others discard. Maybe wander into Yong’an, dream a little – advise the crown prince, or whimsically, give him a posthumous name."

Wuyong raised an eyebrow. "Tell me, what name would you bestow?”

"Hmm..." Xie Lian looked at the vine they were sitting on, lost in thought, "Qiu qian." (Swing)

“Preposterous,” Wuyong snorted, "Try again."

Xie Lian thought for a long time. "Then...Qian qiu?" (A thousand autumns)

"...Xie Lian," Wuyong looked at him with haughty condescension, yet the corner of his lips twisted into a smile he couldn’t help, "You really are terrible at naming."

“Haha.” Embarrassment tinged Xie Lian’s chuckle, his gaze returning to the black sword, “Not the first day you know this about me.”

"Alright," Wuyong relented, "How would you teach him then?"

"By not teaching him," Xie Lian said, "There are many things that one can only understand by experiencing them firsthand. Let him learn slowly on his own."

Wuyong laughed. "Then what's the use of you?"

"Well, then... I'll tell him about the stars, about the moon and tides, about the sun and the four seasons," Xie Lian held onto the vine next to him and swayed his legs rhythmically back and forth, "But that's all for later. Before that, I wish he didn’t experience the same pain as us. I want to protect him as much as possible. After all, he's still just a child. I want to give him a longer childhood...more time on the swing. At least. At least let him know the good in the world before he encounters its evil."

"He'll find out eventually," Wuyong reminded him quietly, “After a couple of autumns.”

"Then let that moment come later," Xie Lian said, “Then let it be a thousand autumns.”

so i guess how i personally rationalised it was by sticking to the narrative that xie lian is supposed to be a parental/teacher figure toward lang qianqiu, and that such figures exist to the end of protecting/guiding children; even in modern society research has shown that the adolescent brain doesn’t develop fully until around 25 years of age, insofar as they shouldn’t be given complete free reign over many areas, for example we have laws pertaining to the legal age of driving or the legal age of drinking… etc. in other words, it is not xie lian’s onus to completely leave lang qianqiu be to figure out his life. of course, lang qianqiu is a couple hundreds years old, but we will stick to the theoreticals of their what their relationship represents.

continuing thoughts on the tgcf revised version lang qianqiu / fangxin arc:

I really feel like the revised version changes xie lian's motivations too much + his internal anguish over how things turned out. like, that line he said to hua cheng, about killing the king and prince an le, shows how he is genuinely losing it @ himself about how he made those choices. it makes it believable that he'd have thought he deserved to take the fall and be blamed for the whole disaster. killing someone who had genuinely worked for peace + literally ending his own bloodline is something it makes sense to feel torn up over! and his motivations for killing both were to preserve the nascent peace that had been hard-established between the xianle and yong'an people, preventing further bloodshed.

but protecting the reputation of a bunch of resentful spirits because lang qianqiu would be broken-hearted to know the truth & to be made a laughing stock? if it was truly resentful spirits responsible, would xie lian be so invested in concealing the truth? this makes it sound much more selfish. like he was primarily just interested in protecting lang qianqiu's idealism. even if lang qianqiu found out, would he have taken it out on the living xianle people? even if the resentful spirits were still a threat, shouldn't they have taken care of it together? that's... just such a major character motivation & character beat change. it becomes a flawed moment rather than a moment of genuine struggle & triumph.

but I genuinely miss the xie lian that we lost.

I feel like in the donghua this is such a character-establishing moment. it tells you who xie lian is, and you gain trust in him and understand what haunts him, what gets him worked up, what he lies for, how good he is at pursuing that goal. and you see how hua cheng understands all that, sees the value in the way xie lian is!! "three lives, for an enduring peace... if I were you, I would have done the same".

with the new plot, it's all different.

AND ALSO how could hua cheng have been so okay with xie lian sacrificing himself to be nailed in a coffin for 100 years just for this . why make xie lian even more self-sacrificial for something like this !

#junlian #xie lian #lang qianqiu #tgcf #heaven official's blessing

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