dbz-facts

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Superman vs. Goku: Why It's A Pointless Debate

Are you tired of all the biased arguments in regards to Goku vs. Superman? Everyone wants to throw around non-canon facts and give one character an unfair advantage that said character doesn't even have while the other just looks like a helpless worm next to it. Well, I'm here to explain two things that a lot of people aren't going to be happy about. The first thing is this:

There is no way to accurately pit Goku and Superman. They're two different fighters, in different universes, obeying a different set of space/time laws, using different power scalings, and different attacks. It'd be like asking who would win in a fight between Charlie Sheen and some other being in some other dimension. Sure, Charlie Sheen would probably win just because he's Charlie Sheen, but there's no way for us to say who would win since we have no idea what that other dimension is like or what the other being could do in this one.

As an example, chi is the name of the energy Goku and the other Z fighters use. All their power derives from chi. From basic flying to the Kamehameha wave, it all requires chi. Now, if chi doesn't exist in Superman's universe and the two fought in Superman's universe, Goku instantly has zero power to draw from. The opposite might be true for Superman. Maybe the sun in the Z universe isn't strong enough to power him and instead his power would drain over time. There's no way to say, and thus, no way to FAIRLY pit them against each other.

That all being said, you could very easily pit any number of Superman's vs any number of Goku's. But then you get bias and unfair advantages.

Let's take the original comics Superman. He could leap tall buildings and outrun speeding bullets and that was about the peak of his power. Those were feats Goku could do as a child. So, in that instance, Goku would demolish Superman in just about any stage of his life.

Now let's take Post-Crisis Superman and pit him against Goku. Post-Crisis Superman has taken down all sorts of enemies, from enemies who cut the fabric of reality to enemies who literally shred planets. He also broke space and time barriers in a fight, survived a supernova that destroyed the planet he was on, got hit by a nuclear blast after being exposed to massive amounts of kryptonite, and kept fighting non-stop for several days on end. Goku can only fight at peak power for a couple minutes before needing to power down out of exhaustion (refer to his battle against Kid Boo and the drain of SSJ3.) Obviously, Supes would win that fight and obliterate Goku.

Hell, we could take both characters at the very end of their respective timelines. Goku has a very established end of his timeline, whether it be when he leaves with Oob in the final chapter of Z or you're one of those people who prefers the ending to GT and he flies off with Shenlong. The problem there is there are many forms of Superman, each with their own different timeline ending. One Supes may end a timeline being just a pretty strong guy who can beat up criminals with ease but would be made into a pile of goo by Raditz while another Supes may end a timeline as an omnipotent God who can mold reality into what he wants and be too high of a transcendent being to even be touched. Again, it comes down to which one you choose, and it unfairly gives one an advantage.

The problem with Goku vs. Superman is there is no incarnation of Superman that is 100% evenly matched against Goku. You're always going to have a Superman that is either too strong or too weak against Goku, unfairly giving one an advantage. That instantly nullifies any and all chance of an equal battle between the two.

And as I said before, they live in alternate universes that cannot be compared. We don't know how either fighter would be in the others universe or what powers they would or wouldn't have. Maybe being in the DC universe would give Goku more power. Maybe being in the Z universe would give Supes more power.  We will probably never know.

There is no way to have Goku and Superman fight as equals.

#Superman #Goku #Superman vs Goku #Goku vs Superman #Goku vs. Superman #Superman vs. Goku #Deathbattle #Death Battle #ScrewAttack #Screw Attack #DBZ #Dragon Ball Z #Dragonball Z #DC #DC comics

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Goku vs Vegeta: Who won the first battle?

I see a lot of arguments on who actually won the initial fight between Goku and Vegeta during the Saiyan saga. If you need the short but sweet version: Vegeta won.

If you need the long and detailed version, brace yourself and remember before you try arguing it, this was all in the manga:

When Goku arrives back on Earth to face Vegeta and Nappa, Vegeta states that Goku's combat level is 8,000 (Yes, 8000, not 9000 like that one bad dub said). We later learn during the events on Namek from Dodoria that before going to Earth, Vegeta's combat level was 18,000. This already puts Vegeta at a higher power level, demonstrated when he makes a plaything out of Goku in the first phase of their battle.

Goku must then use the Kaio-Ken times 3 just to surpass Vegeta. Why is that? Because Kaio-Ken acts as a combat level multiplier. Kaio-Ken would double Goku to a combat level of 16,000, still less than Vegeta's, so Kaio-Ken x 3 would triple it to make it 24,000, significantly higher than Vegeta's, demonstrated when he beat the shit out of Vegeta.

However, as King Kai states, Goku was to never go above x2 at this point or else he could be paralyzed or die. After using x3, Goku states he is already out of power and won't be able to continue much longer, while Vegeta has plenty in reserve. Vegeta powers up and launches off a Galick Gun that would've been somewhere between a power level of 24,000 and 32,000, as Goku's ONLY way of overpowering it was using a 4x Kaio Ken, pushing him to 32,000, enough to counter Vegeta's Galick Gun. After Vegeta was sent into the sky and gone for a moment, Yajirobe comes over to congratulate Goku on "killing" the Saiyan and pats Goku on the back, causing Goku to scream in pain. Goku states he overtaxed himself and he could barely move. He states Vegeta is far from finished and Yajirobe should run before he returns, which he does.

Vegeta, angry and humiliated, states he still has enough power to kill Goku, but decides to go Oozaru to make sure Goku really suffers with Vegeta's maximum power. Another sign of this is Vegeta effortlessly creating an artificial moon, something that takes tremendous power output, while Goku is hunched over in a mess of pain. Vegeta then cripples Goku's body and Goku manages to let off one energy blast in Vegeta's eye before saying he can no longer move any part of his body.

That right there concluded Goku vs Vegeta with Vegeta as the very established winner.

Then Gohan and Krillin arrive. After Yajirobe removes Vegeta's tail, he states he STILL has enough power to kill every last one of them, demonstrating it by knocking out Yajirobe and Krillin and then going after Gohan. Goku telepathically communicates with Krillin when he awakens and begins the Spirit Bomb plan as Gohan faces Vegeta. Gohan strikes it back when Vegeta dodges it and Vegeta takes the full force brunt of the Spirit Bomb. But he STILL isn't down. Vegeta gets up, completely tattered and torn, and says he'll use the last of his power to kill every one of them before heading back to Freeza's ship to recover.

It isn't until Gohan goes Oozaru by pure accident that Vegeta is finally beaten and left helpless and has to retaliate to fight another day.

Now that we've established Vegeta had a clear and complete victory over Goku, the question still remains: Why did Goku enter the fight? King Kai warned Goku that Vegeta would be too strong. Goku stated many times Vegeta was too much for him. So, why still fight knowing he couldn't win? It comes to two possible reasons:

The Saiyan thirst for a challenge. Goku has repeatedly entered battles he knew he couldn't win, simply aiming for the challenge and to see how he stacked up. It's his DNA.

He knew he had to at least try to stop Vegeta. He couldn't just let Vegeta destroy Earth without a fight. Goku was determined to die fighting for Earth and its people. He knew he wasn't going to win and decided to do all he could to weaken Vegeta.

I don't believe Toriyama wrote the battle between them to have Goku win, because he obviously couldn't. Toriyama wrote that fight to show even when he couldn't win, Goku still gave his all. He didn't hide or run or back down from Vegeta. Instead of making a cliche hero beats villain plot, Toriyama gave character. He made the hero lose and the villain win in a way that made Goku's character more believable: Goku isn't the hero who wins every fight. He's the hero who tries no matter how bad the outcome looks.

What do you think? Do you think Goku knew from the start he was going to lose and chose to fight anyways to protect Earth? Do you think he simply fought for the challenge? Or do you believe something else entirely?

#DBZ #Dragon Ball Z #Dragonball Z #Goku #Vegeta #Goku vs Vegeta #Goku vs. Vegeta #Saiyan #Saiyans #Saiyan saga #Vegeta saga

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Contrary to popular belief, Goku did not fight Kid Boo as SSJ2, instead opting to immediately go SSJ3. Goku battling Kid Boo as SSJ2 was anime exclusive filler.

#DBZ #Dragon Ball Z #Dragonball Z #Goku #Son Goku #Boo #Buu #Kid Boo #Kid Buu #Majin Boo #Majin Buu #SSJ3 Goku #SS3 Goku #SSJ2 Goku #SS2 Goku

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Most of your debate right here has been disproven previously on my blog.

Goku was NOT strong enough to beat Fat Boo. That's a mistranslation in the FUNimation dub that everyone likes to spread around for some reason.

In the final battle, Goku fought Kid Boo ONLY in SSJ3, not SSJ1 nor SSJ2. The SSJ2 Goku vs Kid Boo fight only occurs in the anime.

Fat Boo with minimal power managed to blast SSJ2 Gohan into an inch of his life. SSJ1 Gohan and SSJ1 Goten together managed to beat Broly, so that ends it right there.

If you go into my archive and look at my VERY first post, it uses scans from the manga to debunk everything else you've said.

I don’t feel the need to post a manga scan for this because it’s a pretty obvious thing to deduce even without it. I’m currently involved in yet another DBZ debate, this time concerning a guy claiming that Broly could beat Boo in a fight. First off, Broly is non-canon so, by canonical…

#reblog

[dbz-facts]

I don't feel the need to post a manga scan for this because it's a pretty obvious thing to deduce even without it. I'm currently involved in yet another DBZ debate, this time concerning a guy claiming that Broly could beat Boo in a fight. First off, Broly is non-canon so, by canonical standpoints, Boo wins simply because he's an actual character in the official DB universe. Now to the meat and potatoes:

SSJ1 Goku with a power-up from Piccolo, Trunks, Gohan, and Vegeta made Goku powerful enough to beat Broly in a single punch.

SSJ1 Goku even with said power-up was not on SSJ2 power level standings, much less SSJ3.

Every form of Boo was able to beat SSJ3 Goku in some way (I've explained this in a previous post with scans provided).

Saying Broly could beat any form of Boo is literally saying Broly>Boo + SSJ3 Goku despite that SSJ1 Goku + power-up>Broly.

That doesn't add up. You can't take a movie character who lost to a powered up SSJ1 and say he could destroy a villain who could beat a max power SSJ3 Goku. 

Now stop spreading the whole "Broly is strongest character" thing.

#DBZ #Dragon Ball Z #Dragonball Z #Broly #Broli #Goku #Buu #Boo #Majin Buu #Majin Boo #Kid Buu #Kid Boo #broly the legendary super saiyan #legendary super saiyan

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I'm currently involved in a debate with a kid who clearly doesn't know much about the series and is apparently using the FUNimation dub as a basis for his incorrect thoughts on what is "fact" in the DB universe (but that's nothing new by a long shot). What is the debate, you ask?

He is claiming Kid Boo is stronger than Super Boo. So, here we go:

It's common knowledge both SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta could NOT beat Gohan absorbed Boo (also known as Boohan) without fusing together into Vegerot, so we can safely say Boohan is stronger than both Goku and Vegeta alone.

After freeing Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo, Goku states Super Boo (in his original form he fought Gotenks in) is still too powerful for either SSJ3 Goku or SSJ2 Vegeta, so that proves Super Boo even without any absorbed fighters is stronger than either of them.

After turning into Kid Boo, Goku and Vegeta laugh and poke fun at Kid Boo's demeanor and chi, as he has become significantly weaker, knowing that they could kill this Boo. The only reason he *seemed* strong was he was pure rage and unstable. When the final villain blows up Earth five seconds into forming, fans are going to form the impression he's the strongest one. However, why would Goku and Vegeta laugh at Kid Boo if he got stronger? They wouldn't have. This heavily points to the fact Kid Boo got significantly weaker than Super Boo and Goku and Vegeta felt they were finally on even playing ground.

To top it all off, Vegeta says Goku at full power SSJ3 COULD have completely obliterated Kid Boo, to which Goku agreed. This literally states Kid Boo was weaker than SSJ3 Goku if he could have killed Kid Boo at full power.

As the manga shows, Super Boo in any form was stronger than SSJ3 Goku but Kid Boo was weaker. 

Now stop spreading the whole "Kid Boo is strongest Boo" thing, people.

#DBZ #Dragon Ball Z #Dragonball Z #Goku #Son Goku #Vegeta #SSJ3 Goku #SS3 Goku #SSJ2 Vegeta #Kid BUu #Kid Boo #Super Buu #Super Boo #Boohan #Buuhan

[dbz-facts]

Goku's power level upon returning to Earth is actually over 8000!!!!!

#DBZ #Dragonball Z #Dragon Ball Z #Vegeta #Nappa #Over 9000 #Over 8000 #Goku #Kakarrot #scouter #power level

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How old is Teen Gohan REALLY?

Many people believe Teen Gohan is an incorrect fan term for the Gohan from the Cell Games saga since he is 11, as said in many games and the Funimation dub, however, he is neither 11 nor a teen during the Cell Games. So, how old is Cell Games saga Gohan?

The manga states Gohan is 16 after the time skip between Cell Games and the Saiyaman sagas. So that provides the age of Gohan AFTER the time skip, so all we need now is how long the time skip was, which is easily found a couple chapters later.

Chi-Chi, when told Goku will be returning for the tournament, says it has been SEVEN years since she last saw Goku, which would've been right before the Cell Games.

Given Gohan is 16 post time skip and time skip lasted seven years, Teen Gohan is, in fact, a nine year old during the Cell Games.

#DBZ #Dragonball Z #Dragon Ball Z #Gohan #Teen Gohan #SS2 Gohan #SSJ2 Gohan #Cell Games #Cell Games saga #SS Gohan #SSJ Gohan #Great Saiyaman #Saiyaman

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How Fat Boo is the strongest form of Boo:

First off, contrary to popular belief and incorrect dubbing, Goku COULD NOT defeat Fat Boo and flat out said so in the manga.

First, I'll explain how Fat Boo overpowers Super Boo (even as far as Gohan absorbed). First, we are never given a true example of how powerful Fat Boo is. Supreme Kai states his power was locked away due to the gentleness of the last Kai he absorbed and he is never shown fighting at full power because of that drawback. As I've explained to others, having no access to your power is not the same as not having the power. When Goku couldn't retain SSJ3 against Kid Boo, did that mean he didn't have SSJ3 at all? Inability to access isn't the same as not having altogether. However, using barely a margin of his power, Fat Boo was able to blast SSJ2 Gohan clear across the planet and into an inch of his life, which Kid Boo couldn't even do to Vegeta, who was a little stronger and also an SSJ2. 

That proves Fat Boo just playing around with maybe 20% power tops could do more to an SSJ2 than Kid Boo could at 100% to an SSJ2. 

Supreme Kai also states every Kai that Boo absorbed had the power to beat Freeza in a single punch.

No other character is DBZ is ever said to be able to beat Freeza in one punch, and it's worth noting that Supreme Kai only stated this AFTER Vegeta pointed out a Saiyan could do the same amount of damage as Kid Boo could back in those days. 

This means that Kid Boo was at multiple planet bursting power and by absorbing the powers of the four Kai's, reverted to the fat and innocent state due to the overwhelming goodness of the final Kai. That Kai's goodness combined with Fat Boo losing the ability to summon all of his power due to de-evolution inside the cocoon for so long led Fat Boo to not being able to draw upon all of his power. However, as I pointed out, Fat Boo is the end result of Kid Boo gaining the power of FOUR different characters that could each beat Freeza with a punch.

Do you honestly believe Super Boo (even with Gohan absorbed) had more power than Kid Boo's power level + 4x Freeza one shotting power? Really think about that. 

Lastly, Kid Boo at the end of DBZ is much weaker than Fat Boo because he was never super powerful. Vegeta even points out that all the enemies Supreme Kai says are powerful have been very little effort to dispose of and that Boo overall had less power due to being locked away in the cocoon. Neither Goku nor Vegeta alone could handle Fat Boo OR Super Boo, so it's no surprise they'd still struggle against Kid Boo, who was only a couple pegs below Fat and Super Boo. Supreme Kai points out why Kid Boo is so much weaker but still putting up such a fight:

Kid Boo LOST the souls of the Kai's he absorbed, meaning he lost all the power of four characters who could one shot Freeza. This means Kid Boo is, by canon, immensely weaker than Fat Boo, and weaker than Super Boo since Super Boo had Gohan/Gotenks/Piccolo adding to his power. Kid Boo had no one aiding him anymore. It was him and him alone, so his power was his with zero extra support, unlike Fat Boo with four Kai's or Super Boo with Gohan/Gotenks/Piccolo. Kid Boo only seemed powerful because he could still overpower Goku and Vegeta, which any form of Boo already proved they could already do. His rage and instability combined his natural evilness led him to full on attacking Goku and Vegeta, making him seem much more violent and powerful. Again to prove the point, SSJ2 Vegeta at full power (even detonating his own body) didn't even phase Fat Boo. Nothing he did could hurt Fat Boo. Yet, Vegeta at SSJ2 could actually damage Kid Boo, which showed as Kid Boo would show slight damage and anger at being hurt. SSJ2 Vegeta could fight more on par with Kid Boo than Fat Boo, and Fat Boo wasn't even trying to win nor using much of his power. No Z warrior was ever shown damaging Fat Boo. Only Kid and Super Boo were ever hurt.

Fat Boo wanted to eat and play. Super Boo wanted a challenge. Kid Boo wanted to murder everything, so it's no surprise people tend to think of Kid Boo as the stronger/strongest one, seeing as he was the only one to actively hunt down and kill others. 

According to DBZ manga canon, Fat Boo is the strongest form of Boo, he simply cannot access all 100% of his power due to the restraints. Any argument saying otherwise is arguing Akira Toriyama's words, which as we all know, is word of God.