blossomthepinkbunny

[blossomthepinkbunny]

Vivzepop will always be the biggest issue with her own show if she doesn't change. And i'm not saying that because I desperately want to shit on her but rather because it's so clear that her attitude is what made Hazbin Hotel be so dissapointing after the long wait. The pilot released four years ago and Viv had these characters for much longer than that. One could assume that with this much time on her hands she would have a concise plan for how a series of her story would play out (I can imagine that having an own show is a dream for lots of creative people out there). And I get that that plan might get screwed up by a shorter episode count then expected, but she should be the one who knows her story best and who should know what stuff could also be cut out. The first season of Hazbin Hotel is so incredibly overstuffed with characters and plot that it completely looses the main premise the show was originally pitched with (the idea of a hotel were sinners are redeemed. As it is now the hotel is really not important at all). People have talked endlessly about how Viv can't handle criticism and it really sucks because criticism is one of the best ways to improve your writing, drawings, music etc. Without criticism you won't refine the thing you're working on in a meaningful way. Of course it feels bad when you put something out there you wanted to share and then people critique it, but that's part of pretty much every creative journey, or atleast it should be and Vivzepop shouldn't get a pass from this just because she doesn't like it. And there are great shows, movies or books that are rarely or almost never criticised. But the artists behind these works probably went trough years of honing what they do by being criticised for the stuff they put out. And I don't want to say that Vivzepop didn't work hard to make Hazbin Hotel, but it is hard to claim that she improves in her craft, when everytime someone says they don't like her show she throws a hissy fit. She wants the same reactions that these other amazing pieces of media get without ever listening to criticism. Which she sees as a personal attack rather than a tool that could help her to achieve the same level of writing prowess the creators behind media like that have. She believes she is already on the same level as them, just because she basically shuts anyone out who disagrees with her. There's this clip at the end of a Drew Gooden Video which I think sums up the situation with Viv pretty good (the Video is called "Leaving the YouTube Bubble"). He is talking about Lily Singh and her talk show but I feel like a lot of the stuff he says about handling criticism applies to Vivzepop as well.

(you might have to turn up the audio).

Unprofessional behaviour like that might be excusable when the creator is pretty young or they are interacting with publicity for the first time really. But neither of that applies to Viv. And Hazbin Hotel isn't just an indie animation pilot on youtube anymore. It's now a fully realized show created with a pretty prominent studio on a major streaming network and it should be held to the same standards as other shows or movies alike (not saying indie animation or animation on youtube doesn't have a standard but with more budget and support, there's obviously going to be different expectations for the show now). There have been issues in Helluva Boss and the Hazbin Hotel pilot ever since their release which could've been handled with more time and the new show. But Vivzepop shows time and time again that she isn't willing to listen to people who criticise her, which could actually lead to her show getting better. I don't like Viv or her work a lot. I think she is incredibly unprofessional and she has done her fair share of questionable or problematic stuff, which often leads to issues in her shows. There have been some characters I like, some songs or scenes that were pretty well done, very cool animation and an actually interesting premise on paper in HH and HB. There are things that make me come back to these shows to watch the next episode. And i'm obviously passionate enough about these shows to make whole posts about what I think was done badly and what could be changed. But for the aspects of HH or HB I enjoy, there are soo many more problems I have with it. Problems that won't go away unless Viv stops seeing every criticism as a personal attack. Because if Vivzepop doesn't stop acting like her writing is some unreachable stuff that needs no changes I don't really see a point in assuming that these shows will ever get better.

#vivzepop critical #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel critique #helluva boss critical #helluva boss critique #helluva boss criticism #i dont support vivziepop

[blossomthepinkbunny]

Talking about Adam and the villians of HB

Adam is such a dissapointing villain for Hazbin Hotel that absolutely doesn't make use of the great opportunities they had for the bad guy of this project. Like, what is Adam? A sexual, irrational, rockstar asshole who kills demons for fun and is shown to be completely idiotic and unable to make any good point for his actions. And that sucks.

Atleast to me, them making Adam an irredeemable asshole type just seems like the show acknowledging that they can't take any actual feedback on Charlies idea. He is a strawman who never really gets to be anything else until his final moments, when they want you to care about his fight. The show doesn't want you to actually think critical about what Charlie has planned it just wants you to think she is right, by making you hate Adam, by making his side actively carry out genocide. The fact that a show all about revealing that people have layers and presenting seemingly morally grey areas in them has a villian who is completely one note and just evil and irrational because the show needs him to be is not great.

There are actual things that can be criticized about the Hotel and the idea of redeeming sinners, but Adam can't call any of these out because then Charlie would have to defend herself, which she can't do and then you would realize that the writers couldn't think of arguments for why she is right. And then Charlie would come off as not as great as they want you to think she is.

What if he had called out the fact that genuinely no demon seems to give a shit about being a better person. We don't get a definitive time for how long Charlie has been working on the Hotel but we can assume that it has been atleast a little longer. We see her advertise her idea on the news in the pilot and the Hotel makes an advertisement in the first episode, so we know that it's pretty open information that a place where demons can redeem themselves exist. Yet in the entirety of the pilot, season one and however much time lays between the two, only two sinners came to the hotel to change (im not counting staff members because they are there to work, not to be redeemed).

Angel Dust and Sir Pentious are the only ones who came to stay, which either means that just no other sinner cares to be better or that Charlie is not taken seriously and that her hotel is viewed as stupid in concept alone. And you have to remember that even these two didn't initially join because they genuinely wanted to change.

Angel just decided to stay because it was a cheap place to live where he wouldn't have to see Val. And while Pentious does decide he wants to be better, we don't know if he would have even done that, had it not been for the agreement he made with Vox (which made him come to the hotel with bad intentions in the first place).

Why doesn't Adam get to point out that sending Sinners to heaven might be a bad idea when there are probably people that they hurt or may have even killed up there. Like, Angel Dust was in the Mafia and you can assume that he has quite the killcount and it's very possible that some of his victims are in heaven. That goes for every other demon too, they're down there for a reason. And while sometimes that reason might be something stupid or irrelevant, just giving every demon the benefit of the doubt and a chance to get to heaven (in theory) seems pretty irresponsible.

That is also completely ignoring the fact that Charlie's method has no proof of even working. Seemingly in the entirety of hell existing no sinner has ever redeemed themselves and went to heaven until Sir Pentious, which was mostly an accident as well.

I'm not saying Adam had to be likeable or relatable, but it's pretty obvious that they made him so hateable just because. He can't just be an obnoxious, sexist asshole because that's not blatantly evil enough apparently. He also has to commit genocide for no reason other than that he enjoys it. Again, im not saying his genocide should be excusable, but he should have a reason that isn't presented as him just doing it for fun because hes a jackass (he should have a reason that would make what he is doing okay in his own eyes where the viewer could understand how he views the world without having to agree necessarily).

Writing evil characters who are purely bad because they just are can work. But in my opinion that shouldn't be the main villian, especially not in a show where the central idea is supposed to be discussing morality and moral greyness.

Cioccolata from Jjba is a villian where this works in my opinion. He is just evil and Araki really plays that up. He isn't just a crazy doctor type who violently experiments on people for fun, his backstory also shows that he has been doing this since he was 14 and started with driving elders to suicide. And also he films everything he does because he just likes watching people suffer. Cioccolata really is just irredeemably crazy and sadistic but it works for him because he is just a side antagonist and therefore doesn't have the burden of playing as a direct counter to our main protagonist and because for all his immoral actions he still has philosophy behind that. A fucked up philosophy but an understandable (not excusable) one nonetheless. He explaines that in his eyes people can only experience true happiness from two situations. Either when your own despair is replaced with hope, or when one watches other people fall into despair themselves. In his eyes, the more people he watches die, the more he understands the human race and the stronger he gets, which leads into another aspect of his philosophy, which is that the strong have have the right and responsibility to rule over the weak. That is why I think he works.

We actually get some insight into Adams deeper character motivation in his last moments. When he gets upset that the demons aren't just falling at his feet, worshipping him, even though he is the original man all life came from. And that would be a good idea to expand on, that Adam has this intense sense of entitlement that leads him to despise the demons because he doesn't have power over them, when he feels like he should. And because a crowd of people that don't worship him, feels threatening to him, he would want them gone as to not possibly risk his position of power with their ideas.

That could be the reason for why he despises Charlie, because she is a demon who makes her own plans to save her people, which would mean they could start to follow her and work with her, rather than idolizing him. Something like that would work so well for his character and would fit this saviour attitude that some religious people have when "helping" atheists by recommending that they should be religious to make all their problems dissapear or something (no shade to people who genuinely find peace and safety in their religion I think that's actually great but it's not a solution for everybody). The last moments he has give great insight into what his character could've been, had they focused on this, rather than always just having him say how much he enjoys killing demons for no reason.

And in the song he has he also nearly approaches giving another possible reason for his actions (that being that he just doesn't care because demons already had their chance to be good, didn't choose that and now don't deserve a second chance), but that is also never expanded on and is pretty much ignored throughout the season.

Also I find it interesting that Adam has to be completely and irredeemably evil, hated by everyone, while Lucifer gets away with just letting the people he is supposed to rule die like it's nothing. Lucifer didn't to anything to stop the exterminations, he didn't contact his daughter in quite some time and actively mocks her idea when first meeting her after these months of not giving a shit for her or what she does (her idea that is supposed to save his people from literal death btw).

We see him easily finish Adam off in the finale which begs the question for why he just never cared to do anything before. But it's fine because he's just so silly and goofy and actually cares a lot for Charlie say's the show. That is why he gets to be redeemed in the same episode he appeared in for the first time and no one is allowed to question him because then you're just not nice and understanding.

Lucifer didn't have to like sinners. I think his approach of basically leaving the sinners to their own devices is pretty interesting. But HH wants you to hate Adam and like Lucifer without acknowledging that people who just watch bad stuff being done without doing anything about it are also shitty. And for Lucifer it seems extra shitty because we see he can literally just defeat Adam and he just didn't do anything for this whole time.

Helluva Boss has this problem too where it picks characters it wants you to like and if you don't like them then you're just wrong. And therefore no villian gets to call these characters out without being shown to be either stupid, irrational or mean.

Striker was genuinely interesting and cool when he first appeared. He was an antagonist who had understandable goals that tied in well with the trajectory of the story. The classism in hell's society is a pretty relevant theme for HB. We see that Blitzø has to sleep with Stolas to be able to even do his job and earn a living, we see Imps just being tossed around and abused and hear Stolas say stuff like "impish little plaything" to Blitzø. Striker wanting to take the demons of high rank down to make hell better for the Imps by ending classism made sense and was an interesting take to see. Especially since at that point the show didn't insist on Stolas being this misunderstood good guy who just cares soo much for Blitzø, there was a sense of suspense maybe to watch wether or not Blitzø will go along with Striker or if this interaction might influence how he views his clearly predatory "relationship" with Stolas.

But all of that got thrown out the window because in s2 we just can't have people criticise Stolas, since actually acknowledging the fact that he benefited and actively made use of hells classist system would mean that we wouldn't see him as a poor confused bean anymore and that one might actually think of some of the pretty bad implications the Stolitz relationship has. So now Striker is a completely obvious, self obsessed bad guy who loves himself so much that he monologues about how great he feels when torturing Stolas instead of just killing him while they also gave him a weird gimmick where he doesn't like it when someone makes a sexual remark and gets so upset that he drags out Stolas' killing and gets defeated by Millie and Moxxie because of it (the same guy was established as a great assassin in another episode).

They also removed all the backbone to his ideology. He still talks about Stolas diminishing Imps in "Western Engery" but it lacks any point because they have gone so far with woobifying Stolas that he is presented as sympathetic and Striker as bigoted. Striker also acts like he can't kill Stolas because Stella called off the assassination on him. I get him being upset that he won't get his money for the kill but he still has very clear reasons for why he would want Stolas dead regardless (atleast he had when he was still a cool character). It's not like suddenly not being hired anymore would make a big change for him.

Killing Stolas could have consequences because Stolas is royalty, but these consequences always existed for him even while Stella was requesting the assassination. Stella would obviously not want others to know that she is reponsible for Stolas dying (then again we don't know if that would even matter since demons generally don't care about killing others until it's plot relevant) and the point of an assassin is that people are killed in a way that can't be tracked back to someone, so Striker should also not face issues, especially since he is apparently a really good and threatening assassin.

Striker was interesting until the show decided it liked Stolas too much for people to call him out and be presented as reasonable. Stella was turned into just an abusive, whiny and stupid bitch who just hates Stolas and wants his money instead of acknowledging that she pretty much has the same backstory as Stolas, who we are constantly told to feel bad for because of his childhood (arranged marriage, forced to have a child and a set-up relationship neither of them wanted).

Verosika is really not relevant but usually also falls into the "bitchy and just rude" category because she doesn't like Blitzø (it's not as bad for her as it is with Stella but still). Asmodeus and Fizzarolli where really mean and exposed and embarrassed Stolas and Blitzø publicly. But the next time we see Asmodeus interact with Stolas he is just chill with him? Why? Blitzøs and Fizzarollis relationship was atleast handled in a way and we see him act rude towards Blitzø until they make up. But it still followes the theme of people who dislike Stolas and Blitzø either changing their mind or just being shown to be horrible to make their opinion seem invalid (also notice how these male characters in the story get to be forgiven for how they acted and show different sides to their character while the women are reduced to being bitchy).

Barbie Wire was also handled soo bad. She only appears in the last few minutes of her début episode and never gets to talk about specifically why she doesn't want to have contact with Blitzø in the first place. The focus is mostly on how hurt he is by the fact his Sister wants nothing to do with him, even after he worked soo hard to find her and just wanted to make things right with her soo bad. They also basically made her a groomer which just doesn't help her come off as reasonable at all.

For a show that wants it's main characters to do bad stuff and have to deal with being called out for that it surely doesn't like people actually calling them out.

The double standards applied to the villians as opposed to the "good guys" are also just amazing. Like Millie and Moxxie can complain about Chaz being a bad partner in hindsight, but when Verosika talks about Blitzø being selfish in their relationship it's all about how he feels. Loona literally throwing stuff at Blitzø, hurting him just because he dared to carefully point out a true fact about her behaviour is played for laughs, but Stella abusing Stolas is super duper evil and we all hate her now (not saying it isn't bad but the show shouldn't pick and choose who is funny when abusive and who is evil when abusive). The I.M.P taking out random people because they were paid to is fine, but Striker attacking Stolas after being hired is bad just because he also happens to have a (understandable) motiv for why he would want to do it regardless of his job and because Stolas just so happens to be a main character. Blitzø and Loona commenting on Moxxies weight is funny, but when Mammon remarks that Fizzarolli gained a few pounds he is just bad.

That's just my opinion on some of the antagonists in HH and HB. Mammon is pretty much the only villian I really care for in both shows (also Stella and Striker before they got ruined). I mainly think antagonist are either really underused (Vox, Velvette, Verosika) or were just incredibly mishandled (Adam, Striker, Stella). Part of this post was just an excuse to talk about Jjba tho, which I always love.

#hazbin hotel critical #vivzepop critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel critique #helluva boss critical #helluva boss critique #helluva boss criticism

[blossomthepinkbunny]

The sins not being really sinful and how I would rewrite them

So we have met four of the seven deadly sins so far and I feel like three of them were pretty mishandled.

I have seen a lot of people talk about how the sins were really undermined and don't really present each of their sins well. We know Asmodeus as the sin of Lust, Beelzebub for Gluttony, Mammon for Greed and Lucifer as the leader of hell and the sin of Pride. And in my opinion the only one who makes sense as one of the seven deadly sins is Mammon.

He might be one of my favourite characters from either show because he is genuinely entertaining and is the only sin we've seen so far who fits the description. Lucifer has nothing that says pride about him (though that might not be explored in HH as the sins are more relevant in HB). And for Beelzebub and Asmodeus the scenes people often refer to when talking about them not fitting their sin are the one were Beelzebub worries about Blitzø when hes partying too hard and the one were Asmodeus talks about lust not being about force and agreeing with consent.

It seems to not make sense as to why the embodiments of gluttony and lust would care about someones well being or consent. Because a lot of people argue that the inherent idea of a sin is to be hurtful and not good. Which makes sense because someone partying and indulging in wild behaviour occasionally or someone following their desires and acting on them aren't things that are necessarily bad. It only becomes bad when it becomes too much and one starts hurting others and affecting them negatively.

That is why most people would agree that Mammon is the best written sin, because he actually gets to be an asshole and we get to see the negativity of his Greed. But to me there is more to it than that.

One thing I saw being brought up is that the sins would obviously want people to want to indulge in them. That's why Beelzebub wanted Blitzø out of her party, because he was ruining the vibe for the others with his obnoxious behaviour. And also why Asmodeus wouldn't want sexual assault to happen, since then only one person would want to experience lust. So while this makes sense it still ignores the fact that sinning is something bad you shouldn't do.

For me it should be shown as something you would wanna do, but also as something you shouldn't because you either hurt others or yourself. This is why I liked how Mammon was presented. He encapsulated the ideas of both sides. We got to see why someone would want to be like him, through seeing that he makes people happy with his shows and the obviously wealthy lifestyle he lives which is desirable for others to have. But we also got to see the side of his character that qualifies him as a sin, when we see how he treats Fizzarolli and we get to understand why one shouldn't be all Greedy like him, because it hurts others.

Mammons writing (wether intentional or not in that regard) is very good at showing us the good and bad sides to being Greedy. And while some people might say that the sins should only be presented as negative (which is also fine), I think it would also be good to show us why someone would want to be involved with the sin in the first place.

For Beelzebub and Asmodeus the issue is mainly that we don't really dive into the bad sides of their sin. That is mostly because these are characters Vivzepop doesn't want to present as negative which isn't necessarily bad in theory but it then makes no real sense as to why they would be sins.

Gluttony is all about overindulgence. It's something being too much. And the partying presents that well, but when Beelzebub starts to tell Blitzø to stop it stops feeling genuine, because he is basically doing what her sin is all about and she has a problem with it. Beelzebub's situation was pretty easy to fix as well. I would've just written it so that she doesn't care about Blitzø when he gets all drunk. It would be clear why Gluttony is something a Demon would want to indulge in, with partying of course being fun and sometimes you just needing to let loose. But the excessive drinking and the chaos that Blitzø causes while he obviously isn't okay would show why you should never be gluttonous like her, because it's destructive and unhealthy.

The Demons at the party and Beelzebub should hype Blitzø up and encourage him to keep going, while Loona realizes that this isn't good and would force Blitzø to leave for his own well being.

In Ozzies case it's a bit more difficult because what some people take issue with is the fact that he cares about consent. And im not going to say that they have to make him agree with rape for him to represent Lust. But we also never get to see bad sides of his sin. I feel like that is something that could be solved with the show acknowledging that Lust isn't just about sex. While it is often purely associated with that it's actually more about satisfying your desires and acting on your needs without care for others. That can also be in regard to money, possessions or status.

They could've made Asmodeus purely care for what he desires (for which they wouldn't necessarily have to focus on sex) and show how that might be affecting Fizz. Then we could see that the good sides to Lust include satisfying your needs and experiencing pleasure, which is why someone would want to indulge in it. But also that just taking what you want isn't good for other people, which is why you wouldn't want to do that.

And Lucifer is just not representing his sin at all. Atleast I didn't recognize anything that has to do with pride from how he was characterized. In my opinion they could have just gone full out bad for how he presents his sin. Because pride is often interpreted as the original and therefore worst sin Lucifers reason for not being active with leading hell or interacting with his daughter could just be that he is too prideful to do that.

Otherwise I wouldn't mind giving him the same treatment as how the other sins sould be treated in my opinion. Maybe the good thing about him is that due to his pride the demons view him as a worthy and strong leader who they respect, while his pride is also what causes him to not interact with Charlie since he sees himself as too good for that.

Though I get that this would basically change his whole character and that that would involve showing him to be flawed and not just the silly little guy Viv wants him to be (I would prefer it like that but idk).

That's why I think the sins we have been introduced to so far don't really work and how I would rewrite the them so that they would be more like my love Mammon.

#helluva boss critical #vivzepop critical #hazbin hotel critical #helluva boss critique #helluva boss criticism

[blossomthepinkbunny]

Hazbin Redesigns pt.2

These characters are mostly ones, whose designs I never had big problems with, I just had different ideas for them sometimes.

Sir Pentious is female in my AU because her backstory requires it. Also I thought she would be cute as Ms Pentious. I made her colours more earthy and gave her a more serious look, since she will probably be an antagonist (she is still very excentric, she mostly pretends to be serious). I gave her design some elements that resemble steam and clouds to fit with her inventor theming. I kept the eye hat thing because I think it's fun.

For Cherry bomb I kept a lot of stuff from her original design. Her colour palette, her tights, her shoe situation and her hair looks pretty similar too. I toned the brightness down and made her look more Punk (because i'm pretty sure that she is supposed to be Punk). I gave her a prosthetic since I can imagine that she would loose a limb in an accident with her bombs. Ms Pentious made her the prosthetic (she and Cherry are officially dating here and are both antagonist from how it is now). I tried to make her look chaotic and spunky so her design was very fun to figure out.

The main issues I have with Velvettes original design is that she doesn't look like a demon really and pretty much just like a human with weird eyes. Also she suffers from the fact that Viv makes all her black characters grey. I made her a Vampire/Bat Demon because Vampires are creatures of the dark and it reminded me of how people on the internet often are. For her outfit I was mainly inspired by fashion dolls like Monster High. She is supposed to look modern and like a fashion influencer. Her redesign is very bright and obnoxious kinda to reflect the overload one can get from the internet and trends.

I wanted to make Vox older and boxier looking. He is an old TV show host who is upset that he has to stay current with the trends to keep being relevant, even though he doesn't view modern television as "real" television. He is jealous that Alastor can afford to keep his older format and style. I gave his outfit a similar colour sceme to that of Alastor. Vox is meant to look slimy and kinda pretentious. Other that that he isn't so neon anymore and has a less modern TV as a head.

I have some ideas for Valentino but I didn't make the effort to actually make a full drawing for him, because I didn't want to (not for him). Also he probably won't really appear in my AU (still figuring out wether the Vees will even be important at all). He is not a moth here because Vaggie is already a moth and I didn't see the need for two (not related) characters with the same gimmick. He is a scorpion, since they're more intimidating. His outfit isn't all too different (from when he opens his coat in the show). Val would be more muscular and in general more menacing and still very manipulative.

Final character lineup.

Feel free to ask questions/give suggestions for my redesigns/rewrite.

#hazbin hotel #vivziepop #hazbin hotel redraw #hazbin hotel redesign #hazbin hotel critical #i dont support vivziepop

[blossomthepinkbunny]

Hazbin redesigns

I tried to make their designs more varied in colour and actually resemble what they're supposed to be.

I gave Charlie more goat features like the nose, hooves and horns (she also has goat ears but they get covered by her hair). I also tried to incorporate the fact that she's supposed to be a doll with her joints and face paint. Her outfit stayed pretty similar to how it is in canon because I don't mind her being red when the rest of the cast isn't and because it looks cute.

Vaggie also looks more like a moth now. She has lot's of scars because of her background (she isn't an ex-exterminator in my version but im still figuring some stuff out there). She wears casual clothes because she desperately needs a rest. I also gave her a more stocky build.

For Angel I focused on a very pink colour sceme (because I like pink). I didn't have lots of problems with his original design, mostly that he doesn't look like a spider too much. I made him fluffier and gave him different teeth (which look more spidery imo) also gave him a spiderbutt because I genuinely don't know why they didn't do that in the original show.

I made Alastor actually look like a deer because he doesn't look at all like one in his og design. Also no more red since red is typically associated with danger and I wanted him to look like he could manipulate demons into giving him their soul by being charismatic (still wanted to make him look creepy ofc). Blue and gold are typically associated with Angels in this show and I thought that'd be a nice change for his colours. The stitches in his face are were the black tentacle things come out of when he is in his demon form.

I don't have a lot to say about Nifty. She is a bug now, specifically a fly. She also isn't red anymore because flies are green and because it fit with her wanting to clean stuff (since green is often connected to dirt or garbage). I gave her cleaning gloves and tried to make her look more like she could be from the 50s with her dress and hair. She has golden accents to connect her with Alastor.

Husk's design is all over the place but his redesing is probably my favorite one. I gave him a bigger build because someone who pretty much only consumes alcohol all day wouldn't be that skinny. I also tried to make him look older and more rugged. His colours were really obnoxious so I toned them down as well as the owl aspects of his design. I gave him an actual outfit since the one he has in the show confuses me and looks a bit silly.

These are designs for my AU of Hazbin Hotel which im currently figuring out. There's a lot more I could say about some of these designs but I kept it shorter here.

I also finished my Pentious and Cherry Bomb redesings, which I'll probably post a little later. I also already have ideas for the Vee's but I havent fully drawn them yet. Feel free to give suggestions/ask questions about my redesings/rewrite.

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel redesign #i dont support vivziepop #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel redraw

[blossomthepinkbunny]

in regard to your hazbin/helluva critical post, i agree with pretty much everything you said. however at the end of it with vaggie, i pretty sure that her name was vagatha in the pilot. could be wrong though. its actually one of the things i hated from hazbin series, that a. they erased her hispanic heritage by making her an angel and b. they confirmed that everyone who thought her name was vagina was right. like, why make a big deal that she was hispanic (and salvodoran!) if it was just going to be taken away? being half salvadoran myself, i was really annoyed when i realized her being an angel meant she was no longer a human at one point. sorry for the rant got a lot of feeling about the show

Yeah I got that confused. I think I forgot her being called Vagatha because she is mostly referred to as Vaggie anyways and because even Vagatha is a stupid play on the Vagina thing. Like why couldn't she just be called Agatha or give her an actual hispanic name? And yeah erasing her being hispanic sucks, especially since Viv still refuses to draw any of her poc characters actually resembling their heritage.

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel criticism #vivzepop critical #hazbin hotel critical

[blossomthepinkbunny]

Poor rendition of queer characters in HH and HB

Here I am again talking about queer representation in Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss, this time just more generally. Because it's always a little weird to me when people claim HH/HB to have good queer representation, when in actuality most of the queer characters are either just blatant stereotypes or get mishandled somehow. And with Helluva Boss recently winning the Queertys - Web series reward I think that this is probably a pretty good time to acknowledge that kind of stuff (as people have done before).

TW: Sexual assault, R@pe (when referring to the actions of characters)

Blitzø (Pansexual): is very sexual and seen on screen multiple times either having sex or just having had sex. Pretty much fits the general stereotype of queer men always being sexual and also the stereotype of pansexuals just sleeping with everybody. Like, he literally screwed the mutual Ex of his coworkers even though he knew how much that guy hurt them.

Stolas (Gay): also mostly sexual (from how he was introduced) and he is in a pretty terrible "relationship" with Blitzø, which includes coercion, SA, Power dynamics and fetishization. Another very sex-driven queer man. Also just great proof for the people assuming that queer relationships are inherently predatory, unhealthy and never work out.

Moxxie (Bisexual): is often forced into a very feminine role because even in relationships with women, queer men always have to be pointed out to be feminine and putting a guy in a dress is funny I guess.

Fizzarolli & Asmodeus (Queer): they're actually better than a lot of the other characters here but there is still some of that uneven power dynamic going on with them and there are obvious issues with their relationship. Overall they aren't too bad though. They didn't get that much sexual focus and what they got is kinda warranted since Ozzie is the Lust demon. But there is that one scene with Fizz stepping out of his car with Dildo confetti canons (I think) and that was sorta weird, since in an episode before that they presented Crimson as being homophobic and stereotypical for assuming queer men are all obsessed with dicks. Which is just interesting because thats most of the queer men in Vivzepops stories.

Chaz (Queer): just a sexually abusive asshole because we definitely needed more predatory queer men in this show.

Sally May (Trans mtf): basically the single recognized trans character in both shows and she only had one line. After that they made fan merch for her which consisted of her in a bikini with her bulge being drawn pretty visibly (multiple times). Of course there's nothing wrong with Trans people who don't have surgery but it's just a tiny bit weird to me that fanservice merchandise is what she got reduced to, when something like that wasn't even the joke of the only line she had in the show and because she hasn't recieved any kind of focus after that.

Angel Dust (Gay): now there is a lot of stuff that could be said about Angel. On one hand he is another very sexual gay man whose screentime often just consists of sex jokes and references. On the other hand that's a big point for his character. How he tries to act confident in his sexuality when in reality it's the main source of his problems. Though he does often harass other men in the show and that's just so unnecessary. Talking about Angel mostly leads into discussing if he is good representation for SA victims or not, which is something I don't want to talk about that much because I feel like it's not my place to judge that as someone who never has experienced SA. I'm gonna say that I do find Viv's treatment of him outside of the show insensitive (with the pro-shipping, diminishing Valentino as an Abuser and general sexualization of the characters) but as far as the portrayal of him in the show goes I've heard different opinions and you should read the discussion's of actual r@pe survivors about this topic if you want to know about more about it.

Husk (Queer): I don't have anything to say about Husk. He is a very refreshing queer man in these show's and there is nothing bad about him I could think of right now.

Valentino (Queer): for him I mostly want to talk about how he is treated outside of the show which doesn't sit right with me. He is a villian in HH so it's understandable that he is gonna do effed up stuff. I also like that the show tries to make a point about how men get sexually assaulted too (wether they succeeded in that inside the show I'm not gonna judge too hard like I said). But there are a lot of people who not only sexualize him, but also his actions and his relationship to Angel and from what I know Viv never really spoke out against that. She actually interacts with people who do that stuff and I it's just kinda gross.

Vox (Queer): I also don't have a lot to say about him. He and Val are a couple so he is dating a r@pist but he is also a villain so you can't really expect more from him. Especially since he would still be interacting with a r@pist even if they weren't dating.

Alastor (Aromantic, Asexual): is obviously not interested in relationships or sex but his identity is pretty much ignored by a huge amount of the fandom. Vivzepop never say's anything about people blatantly invalidating him like that. It seems to me like she doesn't care about characters who can't be involved in shipping but still wanted to have more diversity in her show so she just called him AroAce. In Hazbin Hotel he isn't bad representation though. His sexuality is never the focus but thats fine, it's mostly just the treatment he gets outside of HH which I don't like.

Charlie (Bisexual): doesn't have a lot to her sexuality. This is something I talked about pretty lengthy in my other post, specifically about the lack of Sapphic content in both shows, so I won't go into too much detail here. Her relationship with Vaggie would probably be the best in both shows if it wasn't for the fact that they both never get the real spotlight as a couple. And there is that thing in Vivzepops stories where the women are pretty much sexless without men and that's obviously something that is generally an issue when talking about the lack of Sapphic representation (which is also a topic heavily tied to sexism). Charlie's portrayal isn't necessarily stereotypical but that's just because there is nothing to her identity in the show.

Vaggie (Lesbian): like I said I already talked about the Chaggie relationship so now I wanna focus on something I didn't even mention in that post. Her name literally being Vagina and that's apparently funny because she is a Lesbian so she obviously likes Vagina. That's just incredibly stereotypical and also excludes Trans Lesbians and Asexual Lesbians who don't want sex. The whole joke was that Adam named her that because he is obsessed with sex and he's a jerk. But her name was always Vagina even in the pilot (from what I know Adam wasn't conceived then and neither was the idea that Vaggie even is a former exterminator).

That's all the queer characters I could think of. I hope I didn't miss any.

I thought about including Millie here too. But she was also already included in my other discussion post and I still don't know if she is canonically Bisexual of if that is just a headcannon so I didn't put her here.

I'm just gonna say that i don't have a problem with queer men being sexual (or any queer person in that regard). But it's pretty much every one of her queer male characters. This is especially bad when a lot of the relationships are toxic as well.

I just think too many characters fit stereotypes and to me that isn't good queer representation. If you like the depiction of queer characters in HH or HB that's good for you and you don't have to agree with me. But you also can't really deny a lot of this stuff and you can't expect others to just be fine with bland, hurtful and sometimes even toxic representation like there is in these shows.

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel criticism #vivzepop critical #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel critique #vivziepop #helluva boss #helluva boss critical #helluva boss critique #helluva boss criticism #queer representation #queer rep in media

[blossomthepinkbunny]

Not a lot of variety in Hazbin Hotel

Another thing I dislike about Hazbin Hotel is the genuine lack of diversity.

With a setting like Hell you have the amazing opportunity to have characters from so many different time periods interact. With different fashion, different skills, different believes or upbringings it's incredibly easy to make characters that stand apart from eachother and create conflict (atleast it should be).

But with Vivzepops disinterest in making characters that even slightly stray away from the specific way she likes to write them, a lot of them end up blending together in how they act/look. Hazbin Hotel has this pretended diversity, where it seems like the cast should vary because on the surface they are very different, but in the show they blend together. This is because Vivzepop throws around different jobs, sexualities, nationalities, goals and inspirations for her characters, but never puts in the work to make them feel like it.

Sir Pentious, Alastor and Vox are all from different times, with different occupations. Sir Pentious was an inventor in the 1880s, Alastor was a radio host from the 1930s and Vox was a TV show host from 1950 (that's the era they died in). Yet they all wear very similar suits, just colour shifted. They all have shoulder pads, the same lapels, stripes and bowties. Alastor and Vox even wear the same pants and have the same shoes (atleast in shape).

Not to mention that in almost all of the designs there's that obnoxious red colour (especially with the red-black-white combination she just loves to put on her creations).

Even characters like Vox who seem like they have different colours (for him a mostly blue colour sceme) still have red accents and only very few characters are allowed designs without any red. Which is not that great since the background is also mostly red and it just hurts to look at sometimes.

Theres also all of the "typical" Vivzepop desing traits. Mostly sharp shapes and features, very slim bodies, sharp teeth, tophats, suits etc. A lot of her characters already blend together even though it doesnt make sense for them to. Would an inventor from the 1880s really dress the same as a TV show host from the 1950s?

Here I should mention that I don't mean blend together as in being completely indistinguishable from eachother but rather having too many similarities that it doesn't make sense for them to have.

As far as personality goes I do have to say that the characters are different enough in their basic chatacterizations. Vaggie especially was mostly refreshing because she acted as a voice of reason sort of and Charlie with her often naive (but very childish) attitude also stood out. But the devil is usually in the details.

I've heard people complain countless times about how pretty much the only continuous joke the show has is a character cursing, insulting others or making a sex joke. I get that cynical characters are sort of the appeal of HH but there's also just a lack of variety there for me. This is probably just a small nitpick here and something that is already done sometimes in the show, but there are different ways a person can be insulting and mean.

Like, for Husk it makes sense to be so up-front with being rude. He's a bartender and dealing with drunk people often requires being very clear and assertive.

But why does Angel never get to do anything else then directly talking about being sexy and making fun of others in such an obvious way. I think they wanted to give the appeal of him reading someone like a drag queen would but he just makes the same observations again and again and not in really clever ways (from what I remember!).

Alastor and Vox could've also been used better in the sense that atleast from what I know people in the entertainment industry (especially ones who do interviews or that stuff) won't directly tell someone that they don't like them. It's much more common for them to bring it up in small ways, like asking a question tied to an embarrassing topic to force the person into having to talk about that stuff.

Like I said this isn't really all too important though. What makes me more annoyed is the lack of diversity when it comes to the villains and how they're treated.

To me Viv has an issue with trying for every villain to play a more goofy role even though it doesn't always fit. Of course you can have "stupid" or silly and mostly funny villains but that shouldn't be every single one. When there are multiple villains in a show what makes them interesting is often how they differ from the others in their attitude and motivation and in HH we just don't really get that.

Sir pentious is never taken seriously as a threat and is mostly treated as incompetend, (I know he gets out of being the villain rather quick but even before that) Adam is just constantly portrayed as a dumb and irrational until we are supposed to take him seriously in the end. Vox doesn't do anything in the show apart from be kinda antagonistic towards Alastor and outside of that he is mainly also presented as being a fun villain rather than an intimidating one (very prominently in the song he has with Alastor where Alastor just completely bashes him at the end). Velvette also has nothing to do. Lucifer isn't treated as an antagonist (even though he should be in my opinion) and is shown to be just a "goofy and silly little guy" ig.

And apart from Valentino's genuinely terrifing scene he has with Angel Dust in episode four, he too is shown to be whiny, obnoxious and mostly dumb in his other scenes (this isn't helped by Viv pushing the idea that the Vee's are just like fun little saturday morning cartoon villains outside of the show). I guess Alastor is different in that regard kinda.

This plus the fact that outside of the characters who are obviously villains no one is allowed to be even slightly critical of Charlies idea without being presented as totally irrational, makes for no variety when it comes to the opposition in Hazbin Hotel. It's just kinda dissapointing to me that a show with this opportunity to create different characters gets stuck in the same conflicts and ideas over and over again.

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel criticism #vivzepop critical #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel critique #vivziepop

[blossomthepinkbunny]

Watching Hazbin Hotel or Helluva Boss initially kinda feels like comfortably walking up a set of stairs until you stub your toe on a step and violently fall all the way down again.

Because these shows are perfect to watch if you turn your mind off and just watch colours flash before your eyes, but as soon as you start to ask one simple question or just think critically about it, it all falls apart.

How do businesses even work in hell when a monetary system is never established and it's said that no one (not even the leaders or royalty) cares about rules and a working system?

If no one does care then why are classism and these relationship issues in HB even a problem?

What even happens after sinners or imps die?

If we don't know what happens why should we care about whenever they're in danger?

Why should we care about the exterminations?

Why are there prisons and therapy centers in hell when it would be more efficient for the Sins if they'd just kill demons that piss them off?

Why aren't these demons just killed when apparently no one would care?

If Stolas would be in trouble for giving the grimoire to an imp, how can the I.M.P's just advertise their services out to the public like that?

And why has their business model even worked for them so far, when the people they kill can just get to them in hell?

Can every sinner make a contract with everyone?

If so, then why can't Charlie just make a new contract with Angel Dust that makes the one he has with Valentino useless?

Why does Charlie genuinely never do anything to actually help her people out?

Why does she desperately want to stop the exterminations but never does anything when Alastor kills so many demons?

Why should we give a shit about demons being murdered when so far only a few demons actually tried to be better and the ones that don't try to change are shown to be the worst people ever?

How did Vaggie not know angels could be harmed when she literally lost her eye and her wings to an angelic weapon?

(I'm not counting explanations that weren't in the show, one shouldn't have to look up additional material to understand whats going on)

A show having a plothole doesn't necessarily make it bad. But Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel have so many inconsistencies not only regarding worldbuilding but also characters. These may seem like small issues but they all pile up to create shows with terrible logic. It's not good writing when a show can't withstand one point of criticism without opening up to a ton of other, even more destructive issues.

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel criticism #vivzepop critical #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel critique #helluva boss #vivziepop #helluva boss critical #vivziepop critical #vivziepop criticism

[blossomthepinkbunny]

Vivzepops fetishization of queer men and the lack of Sapphic content in HH and HB

I found it a bit dissapointing that Charlie and Vaggie had very little interactions that could be read as romantic or sexual, especially since they are the supposedly the main couple of Hazbin Hotel and have been together the longest out of most of the couples in HH and HB.

Of course having more casual representation is also fine but the most memorable thing about their relationship was the quickly resolved argument they had when Charlie found out about Vaggies past. I've seen different opinions about how they were handled as a pair.

I understand when someone says that they enjoyed a more relaxed couple with subtle, realistic interactions, interactions that are often overlooked just because both characters are female.

But I can also agree, that they were really not a stand-out couple (wich is weird since Charlie is the main Character) and that it was a bit dissapointing to not see a lot of content for them.

Now the main issue I found with this is that in Vivzepops stories there is a definitive lack of sapphic content. It sometimes seems like women are sexless unless they are with a man. But two men can be sexual and openly affectionate (romantically too). At first I didn't really understand why I felt weird about Chaggie as a couple, so I looked at all the implied/canon ships in Helluva and Hazbin (including past relationships).

Implied/canon couples between a man and a woman:

-Millie and Moxxie

-Blitzø and Verosika

-Stolas and Stella

-Millie and Chaz

-Beelzebub and Vortex

-Sir Pentious and Cherry Bomb

-Adam and Lute

-Lucifer and Lilith

Implied/canon couples between two men:

-Stolas and Blitzø

-Asmodeus and Fizzarolli

-Moxxie and Chaz

-Angel Dust and Husk

-Vox and Valentino

Implied/canon couples between two women:

-Charlie and Vaggie

Now please tell me if I missed any, but these were the ones I could think of.

Honorable mentions include Loona & Vortex, Blitzø & Striker, Blitzø & Chaz and Blitzø & Fizzarolli. But I didn't put these on there because they're either one-sided or don't have enough romantic content.

Now it's very easy to see the difference between representation for queer men in comparison to queer women in these shows. The only relevant (im not counting Background characters) Sapphic relationship there is, is Chaggie. And it's completely underrepresented when compared to the content the man x woman or man x man ships get (not to mention the total absence of gender-queer characters).

One of Millie's and Moxxie's jokes is that they're so in love, that they're almost always cuddling, holding hands, talking sweet or just straight up making out with eachother (I'll talk about Millie a bit later). Sir Pentious had multiple scenes dedicated to him trying to confess to Cherry Bomb or just crushing on her in general.

Stolas' and Blitzø's relationship has become one of the main topics of Helluva Boss and they get a Backstory and explicit aswell as dramatic scenes for them as a couple. The same goes for Asmodeus and Fizzarolli (except that their love isn't as important). Angel Dust and Husk get a song and part of an episode for their relationship to develop.

Here i'd also have to mention that by the list I made Vivzepop's fetish for queer men is very prevalent. Most of the couples between men and women are either past relationships or they get very little attention to them. The only ships that often get special focus, development or explicitly romantic/sexual focus are ships with two men (no matter if their dynamics are even good, healthy etc.).

Now for Millie there are different ways you could talk about her situation with relationships. In general I think that everyone can agree that Millie lacks Character and is a good representation for the neglect of the female characters. Most of her moments revolve around Moxxie in a way and she hasn't had precise characterization so far.

Millie's relationship with Moxxie is sweet and simple and is generally one of the better things about Helluva Boss (if you ignore Millies lack of personality wich really pulls the couple down for me). Now the Episode "Exes and Oohs" shows the mutual Ex of Millie and Moxxie. Chaz dated both of them and as we see in the episode affected both of them very negatively. At the start we literally see Millie freak out and destroy a bunch of stuff, just because she saw Chaz on the street.

Yet Millie's relationship with him is never explored further. All we know is that she dislikes him and that he's a giant asshole. Whereas Moxxie get's a whole Backstory and episode plot about him and Chaz. No focus is given to Millie at all even though Chaz is the ex of BOTH of them.

Another thing that I wanna point out is Millie's possible Bisexuality. Now im not so sure for this point because I couldn't find genuine confirmation on wether Millie is actually confirmed to be Bisexual or if it's just a headcannon. So take this with a grain of salt BUT if Millie is Bisexual then she perfectly shows how little Vivzepop cares about Sapphic representation. What does Moxxie get to confirm him as Bisexual? An ex of the same gender (also multiple explicit flashbacks with him), a whole discussion about his queer identity and a scene where he literally says that he's Bisexual. Moxxie is pretty good Bisexual representation in that regard.

What does Millie get? Nothing. Again I don't know if she's genuinely also Bisexual or if it's ever been confirmed but it'd also be pretty weird if Vivzepop apparently cares so much about queer representation and then doesn't confirm any female characters as actually queer.

I think a lot of people have talked about her blatant fetishization of queer men and I think that that's also mainly why I feel weird by the lack of attention on Vaggie and Charlie as a couple.

I sorta wish I could enjoy a more toned-down and realistic couple in these shows, but when I see that a ship like Vox and Alastor (wich isn't canon nor would it even happen since Alastor is Aroace) is talked about more than the actual main character's relationship I just don't like it.

There's so much more you could say about poor queer representation by Vivzepop (like the fact that she's fine with people ignoring Alastors Aroace identity, and the stereotypes etc) I mainly wanted to talk about the neglect of her female cast in terms of sexuality.

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel charlie #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel critique #helluva boss #vivzepop critical #vivziepop #helluva boss critique #helluva boss millie #helluva boss critical

[blossomthepinkbunny]

The inconstancy/misuse of the powers in HH/HB

(especially in "Oops")

In regards to the episode "Oops" of Helluva Boss and in general I just wanna say that I genuinely don't understand the misuse of the power levels in Helluva Boss/Hazbin Hotel. The strongest forces in Hell are the seven deadly sins and after that comes the Royalty and after that the overlords. Then the sinners and the Hellborn are the weakest from my understanding.

There are however some instances in the show which just don't make sense, considering the power system. Like, Charlie is the daughter of the most powerful demon in the whole of hell and troughout the show she just doesn't do anything at all. We are to assume that she has a lot of power still. Technically she should be the second strongest demon in hell. Maybe you could say, that she isn't used to her powers and is somewhat inexperienced and young, but she should still be atleast on the same level of strength as the weakest deadly sin, or Stolas I guess.

But all she does is sit around. I know she isn't the confrontational type and is actually quite the pacifist sometimes, still there are moments where she could use her powers to help her plan or just something. She never tries to protect the Hotel when people like Sir Pentious or the guys who were after Mimzy attack, thats always Alastors Job, even though one could guess that she'd be stronger than him if she would make use of her powers. Maybe she could even protect the demons from Alastor, because mindlessly killing random demons is sort of the opposite of what she wanted to accomplish (but apparently she's just fine with that? This goes back to her not being really well defined at all).

When she sees someone who she consideres her friend (Angel) get abused and harassed by someone, she doesn't do anything to help him. Maybe threaten Valentino or just use her high status to do anything. But nothing comes from her.

In the final episode it's also Alastor who has to fight Adam before Lucifer showes up. Charlie puts up a good fight when she finally decides to move but it just showes us all her potential which is never used.

This ignoring of power is so much worse in "Oops" though. The plot is that Asmodeus can't save Fizz from Crimson because of stupid, artificial reasoning. The first thing that is said is that Asmodeus is the weakest sin, which is fine but it doesn't change the fact that he could still just beat up everybody there. Like yeah he might be the weakest but he's still a SIN. He's stronger than Stolas and definitely a hundred times stronger than some random imp without special assisment.

I saw someone say that Ozzie probably sold away a lot of his power, since he often doesn't read the contracts he singes which is a nice theory but I don't consider it, since it's not mentioned in the episode. And even if he signed away more than half of his power, he should still be so much stronger than Crimson. Crimson is just an Imp and we see his group get taken out by Blitzø and Fizzarolli (one Imp with just a knife and one who can't even really fight) so the show can't even mention Ozzies power level as if it's an actual reason for why he can't do anything. We also see that he's still able to stand up to Mammon confidently in the later episode so he obviously is still VERY strong.

Another excuse they try to pull is with the legal documents he has to sign to give him some conflict and a time limit. But that's stupid too, since we know Ozzie can make Portals. He could just teleport there, take Crimson and his Imps out and be back with Fizz and Blitzø in a second. Also, Stolas is there too and he can turn demons into stone just by looking at them. Why doesn't he just do that to the lawyer guy? Then they don't have to sign and could just leave. I mean it's not as if the lawyer should even be an obstacle to Ozzie or Stolas.

The fact that Asmodeus apparently cares so much for his Partner but never thinks about any of this. At the start of the episode he's literally so worried about even the idea of Fizzarolli going to the greed ring without him and still he'd rather sit there and fill out some documents for a guy he could easily beat any second than to save his Partner who could be in ACTUAL life threatening danger!? The same goes for Stolas who we know can tell when Blitzø is in danger (from the episode truth seekers) but never has that instinct to save him here, even when Blitzø is captured too.

It's also just funny that for a place like hell, which we are constantly reminded of as this place without rules and people that care about a government, there's still that apparent necessity to completely follow Crimson's demands and the arbitrary rules he set. Especially for Asmodeus who is one of the strongest leading forces in hell, to just do whatever a random Imp wants, someone who is so many ranks under him (literally the second to last rank in hells society) is just indescribably stupid. Isn't he the one who could just make new rules? Or just decide that he doesn't want to follow certain ones, since in hell apparently no one follows a lot of rules anyways so why is it presented as if he can't do anything.

That's the thing I disliked most about "Oops" because it's so clear that they just had to make something up because they wrote themselves into a corner with Asmodeus and Stolas being so strong. There are probably more moments like this in both shows. Another one I can think of is that Stolas never helped I.M.P out in any of their missions, even though he can tell when Blitzø is in danger and would be a great help to get them out of situations. Obviously this is only brought up in one episode, because they didn't know how to resolve the conflict and then it just disappeares because it would make a lot of struggles in episodes feel weightless since Stolas can just save the Imps from any danger.

It's just another thing Vivzepop brings up and then drops. The inconstancy in these shows (in Helluva boss even more than in Hazbin) is actually annoying and makes episodes so much harder to watch.

#hazbin hotel critique #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel charlie #hazbin hotel #helluva boss #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #helluva boss critique #vivziepop #helluva boss asmodeus #helluva boss stolas #vivzepop critical

[blossomthepinkbunny]

Charlie as an underdeveloped character

One thing I was genuinely dissapointed by when watching Hazbin Hotel was that they never cared to dive into Charlie's Morality more.

I feel like a lot of people can agree that Charlie felt very flat/sidelined in a show she was supposed to be the main character of and I think that that's because they ran out of Character Moments for her. Her Backstory is pretty much just infodumped at the start so there's nothing you can really explore there (except for her relationship with her parents ig but they only really brought that up and resolved it in one episode). Alastor has the mystery behind him of what his goals really are, Angel Dust has his arc about standing up to his abuser, Vaggie has her dramatic backstory reveal thing and Sir pentious gets focus as the one real guest at the hotel and with his goal to be redeemed.

Charlie really has no conflict at all, which is weird since the whole plot is that her idea is relentlessly mocked and never succeeds until the end. But she doesn't have a personal conflict. All the issues she faces come from the ignorance of the people around her who don't support her, but never from who she is. She never has to change. They try to hint at this with her being possibly invasive and not respecting boundaries in the Angel Dust and Valentino episode. But the episode doesn't focus on her and Angel as they talk it out and she realizes how she might have to change as well (from how I remember it). It focuses on Husk and Angel's relationship instead.

I feel like the easiest route they could've taken for her character was that of a moral dilemma. Charlie believes in second chances and being able to change demons and her opposite is Adam, who doesn't think demons should be redeemed and should just be killed instead. But it's never specified if Charlie truly believes everyone deserves a second chance or if there are restrictions to that. Adam sings a song in the first episode and explaines his reasoning for why he believes demons shouldn't be saved, which is that they had their chance to be good and didn't choose it and now they can't expect another one (I guess the real reason is that he's just an asshole who doesn't care but that's because Vivzepop can't write Villains so I'll just pretend like that's his real reason).

The problem is that Adam is presented as fully in the wrong and I just don't agree with that. I'm not saying he's right with killing random demons of course but the show never takes the time to consider that sometimes people go to hell because they are actually terrible and have done inexcusable things. Like yeah, someone who had an addicition or a mental health problem while they were alive obviously doesn't deserve eternal suffering without any chance for redeemability, but we know that those aren't the only people that go to hell (in the pilot it's literally confirmed that real life criminals like Jeffrey Dahmer are also down there).

The show blatanly shows us characters like Valentino who are shown to do irredeemable things and be purely evil.

My question is just if Charlie would also look at someone like Valentino and say: "Yeah they deserve to be saved and get a second chance". She obviously thinks Valentino sucks, which we see in the Episode were she meets him.

So like, what would she have done if in the second episode someone like him stood at their door and wanted to be redeemed instead of Sir Pentious. Does she draw a line? Or would she have really heard him out? Her morality with this "everybody deserves a second chance" attitude is so underexplored even though it would have been the perfect place to develop her more. If they had confronted her with an actually tough situation, where she is presented with a truly terrible person, they could've had two interesting ways to take her character.

She could've accepted the person and with that she'd have taken her role a fully 'good' saviour for the demons. Someone who is truly without judgement, or atleast believes that there is good in everyone that just has to be brought out. Which would've also given room to think about if people like that are even inherently good, if they can 'excuse' the actions of terrible people and still want to help them. This would have made her a very extreme character in her believes, but something coherent and definitive is actually something Charlie desperately needs for her characterization.

The other way would've had her reject the person and with that she would have to face the idea that maybe Adam isn't fully wrong. In that situation she would have found herself in a similar position to the Angels in heaven, where she basically is the one deciding over what's acceptable and what isn't. This could lead to her having a moral dilemma. Is she even a good person if she's deciding what's moral and what isn't? Can she just be okay with making exceptions to her idea to protect her people? Does she even want to view EVERY demon as her family? Or does she think there are some demons that maybe deserve death?

I'm just really dissapointed that the show takes such an interesting idea and such a difficult topic and then just does nothing with it. What we view as bad and good and which people we judge harder than others will always depend on social norms and the situation. It's a topic with no real right and wrong answer because there are so many things to consider. But this moral grey conflict that is literally one of the MAIN CONFLICTS in Hazbin Hotel is so incredibly underwritten, that it's not even funny.

Instead of acknowledging the difficulty of the subject Hazbin does what it does best and takes the easy route with seemingly clear right and wrong sides. This is especially stupid, since morally grey characters are supposed to be the point of the show. Like there are these demons who have done bad things and who aren't perfect, but that doesn't make them bad people. Its about revealing that a person has layers (which the writing doesn't). This is also a big point in Helluva Boss, where characters like Blitzø or Stolas who mess up repeatedly, are supposed to be shown as still having interests, aspirations, and good things to them.

The easy route which is taken constantly in both shows however makes it so that Charlie is completely in the right and anyone who criticises her is one of the evil people who try to ruin her plan, just like Adam. Who's also such a straw man for anyone who even dares to bring any objection to Charlies ideas, because everyone who does is apparently a hypocrite who just doesn't understand her and would rather side with genocide (I wonder were Vivzepop takes her inspiration from).

Charlies writing was just really dissapointing with almost never any reflection being done on her part. She doesn't have really striking moments, discussions or ideas to her in a show she's supposed to lead. That's just an issue that comes with Vivzepop never really putting as much work into her female characters, even tough they would desperately need it.

I know that only the first season is out so far, but I highly doubt thay they'll bring up a discussion like this in s2. Especially since Adam is dead now and the Angels will probably try to work more with the demons, after Sir Pentious' redemtion and the reveal of the exterminations to them. Also the Vees, Lillith and Alastor will be more of focus from what we can assume by the ending scenes.

I just don’t like that Viv can take interesting conflicts and write them to be completely one-dimensional and boring.

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel charlie #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel critique #helluva boss #charlie morningstar #vivzepop critical #vivziepop