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adelrambles · 1 month

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Hold on because you’ve got me thinking now. DO we think Bishop’s change in Fast Foward is genuine?

I think it might be, at least partially. Largely because of the episode ”Head of State” where he endangers his own life to rescue Stockman from the lab explosion/fire, it seems to reflect some degree of genuine character development. Also, when he is strung up in front of the turtles and talking about his time spent kidnapping and experimenting on aliens, he states “that was a different time in my life, not one that I’m proud of,” and his expression/reactions really seem genuine.

BUT, during that same sequence when he tells the story of how Stockman “went too far” and caused the lab to blow up the first time, he seems to place a lot of unnecessary blame on Stockman and does not own up to his own misdoings, which Ralph calls him out on. So I’m really not sure?

This ask reminded me I had a similar one in the drafts I just,, forgot about,,, BUT yeah I honestly do not buy that President Bishop's change is fully genuine, and that's detailed a bit more in that ask!

I'll agree that the rescue is a big point in his favor, though. Given the circumstances, Bishop was just severely retraumatized (strapped down on a lab table, preparing to be dissected,) so given he was probably acting under severe stress, his actions could easily be read as genuine. I definitely think there are ways to spin it to fit the interpretation that he hasn't changed, which I tend to go with in my own writing (and as such I won't detail too much, spoilers!) but it's very plausible Bishop chose to rescue Stockman in an attempt to make up for everything he'd done to him before, too. As Trauma pointed out to me, Bishop's rescue of Stockman in that scene directly mirrors the alien rescuing him in that same episode's flashback. That suggests this is Bishop paying it forward, in some sense.

I will say I do not buy that his guilt is genuine when he's describing his past actions, I very much find that to be an act. He refuses to describe the actual contents of what he did or why what he did was wrong, and continuously distances himself with his language ("I was a different person" and so on.) Paired with the fact that he has no qualms blaming Stockman and detailing what he did wrong, like you said, it comes of as VERY manipulative, to me. These are the tactics of someone who wants to be forgiven but isn't sorry. If you've seen a youtuber apology you've seen all these moves before.

In terms of Bishop's expressions, I always come back to the fact that he's a politician, and likely has been for a good few decades. He's in the public eye, and the success of his goals now directly hinges on how other people percieve him. It seems very likely to me that he's developed the skills to lie and persuade and come off as genuine in response.

But that's just my two cents! Honestly while the interpretation that he's still a monster deep down is my personal preference, it really can be read either way. Given the tone of FF, I do think we were intended to just take his redemption at face value. It's just that it's so much more fun when he's a liar!

#agent bishop #tmnt 2003 #asks #also hello! 🫵 fellow Bishop stannie #what I CAN'T get over is why he pet Stockman. WHY'D HE DO THAT????#I can't. I can't make that one fit. by all accounts it doesn't make sense #the other fun detail to consider is if Bishop truly is still the same guy he must've been LIVID when Sh'Okanabo picked him up #I assume he allowed it to keep Sh'Okanabo monologuing. but oh my god did that guy just brush with death. he just picked up a live grenade #and he never realizes it

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adelrambles · 1 month

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Idk if you’ve ever fully answered this on your blog but: DO YOU THINK Bishop fully redeemed himself in the future? By becoming president and uniting all races? Or is he still 🗑️

Oh man no, I don't think Bishop's Good Guy act is all that genuine. I think there's some change, but at his base, beneath all the subterfuge, he's still the same guy. I may have gone over this on the blog before, but like ey what am I gonna just get handed this opportunity to ramble ad nauseum and not take it? NEVER

There are a few pieces of evidence we can read into regarding the faux-ness of Bishop's new persona. First and foremost, for me, is the two instances where he presents the turtles with his "origin story," so to speak. In each instance, he keeps the details vague, and is very hesitant to admit to any direct wrong-doing on his part. The first story is so vague on the details that it feels like he's trying to brush past the turtles' concerns as quickly as possible. The SECOND, though. Bishop consistently dances around going into any detail about what he did or why it was wrong. And he goes on to push all of the blame onto Stockman! I mean honestly, he says Stockman "took things too far." Like dude!! We already know nothing is "too far" for you! It's very suspect to me that the subsequent lab collapse could have been ALL Stockman's fault. Bishop also elevates his own accomplishments and takes full credit for the success of the PGA. Idk but there's something really insidious to me about how he presents the information to make himself look as good as possible-- and the way he's able to convince at least a few of his former enemies that he's trustworthy.

There are other little inconsistencies in his behavior, like him writing off the turtles' warnings about Sh'Okanabo. The Bishop I know is a paranoid freak, he would never in a million years brush off a lead on a possible threat without checking it at all. And if we assume that, then that suggests Bishop said as much to give the turtles the impression it wasn't something worth looking into, meaning he was probably trying to direct their attention away for some reason. All of this tells me (if we just. ignore the possibility of it being a writing flaw agdhgshd) that Bishop is still a very cold and calculating personality, fully willing to throw others to the wolves for his own purposes, but he is WAY better at manipulting, now.

I've said before that I find it likely Bishop's weakest point is his social skills; we see that his superior officers (i.e. the president) dislike him-- which, frankly, is a detriment to his cause as it put his funding in jeopardy at least once that we know of-- and everyone he meets tends to come away some level of discomfitted. So what FF presents us with is a Bishop who needed to improve these skills for the sake of his ultimate goal. If the safety of earth requires friendly relations with aliens, then he needed to become an ambassador, and if he needed to become an ambassador, then he needed to be less overtly unpleasant. Thus, he changed tack. As a result, we have someone who appears trustworthy and is very good at lying and directing your attention, but is just as utilitarian as ever under the mask. That's just his job, after all.

Other details include:

- His intro. We see Bishop personally taking time out to go through monitors all over the city. He apparently has a very thorough surveillance system that he reviews himself. Again, paranoid freak.

- When addressing the turtles, we sometimes see him slip back into snarkier comments. This usually happens when he's frustrated (snapping at them for not attacking the Mouser fast enough for his tastes,) or when he's not being obeyed (making a snide comment about Cody having nightmares when they refuse to exclude him from a mission briefing.)

- As my friend Trauma pointed out to me recently, when storming the moonbase Bishop's men had their guns defaulted to lethal force, he had to give the order to switch to non-lethal. He was fully ready to wipe that place out.

- His willingness to include the turtles and later Cody on missions strikes me as, yknow, very utilitarian in its own right. Cuz those are teenagers, yeah. It could be argued that Bishop can't tell how old the turtles are but he definitely knows Cody is young, and knows well enough that he shouldn't be in a combat situation. But in the finale he praises Cody's decision to defy him and fight anyway. So what changed? In essence, Cody was effective. Bishop is fine with child soldiers as long as they do a good job (and can't be publicly traced back to him.)

Also like did you see that car chase? He ran civilians off the road and did not give a FUCK. That's the same guy.

#agent bishop #tmnt 2003 #asks #there may be more details I missed but this is just from memory #if I were a competent blogger I'd go rewatch the episodes for the 50th time to be sure but I got deadlines to meet SIGH #but yeah no I don't find it plausible that Bishop's entire personality did a heel-face turn #his goal shifting? yeah I can buy that. his learning to navigate social games? absolutely #him becoming genuinely kind and caring and willingly showing that with no ulterior motive? HELL no #Bishop is a 'bigger picture kind of guy.' always has been always will be #remove that and you lose a major facet of what make Bishop Bishop

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adelrambles · 1 month

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Adding @doctor-badadvice 's tags cuz they're absolutely correct. Also I love the phrasing of slowly introducing someone to his enclosure it's hilarious.

I am so sorry I promise I’ll stop spamming you about Bishop now (maybe.)

Do you think Bishop could ever be in a healthy relationship? What would the dynamic be like with evil Bishop versus Fast Forward Bishop?

And no I don’t mean Stockshop. 😭

Oh no worries at all I'm enjoying your questions!! Please feel free to spam to your heart's desire. Sorry it took so long to get around to this one, I have admittedly not put much thought into Bishop in romantic scenarios, so I had to think on it a bit!

So, could Bishop ever be in a healthy relationship? Short answer NO. NOT AT ALL LOL

Slightly longer answer, there is some potential depending on how you like to interpret Fast Forward!Bishop. I think it's impossible for Present-day Bishop to be in any sort of healthy romance (and I'll go into way more detail than neccessary about that below 👍) but if you take FF's presentation of the character at face value, there's certainly a possibility.

So long answer, Bishop is one of the single most self-centered, unexamined people to walk the damn earth. There are a lot of factors that go into why he would be just, the absolute worst in a relationship, but the biggest issue is he doesn't give a shit about anybody but himself. If we throw everything else out and consider a hypothetical where he enters a relationship for the relationship's sake, he is not capable or willing to see things from a partner's perspective. In any disagreement he will be unwilling to consider he could be wrong, and will go to great lengths to ensure the other person concedes or backs down. He is a paranoid control freak who would not stand for anything less than being agreed with and obeyed, and he is perfectly willing to break someone down to achieve that. And in a scenario where, indeed, his interest is actually in the other person, we know he has a terrible possessive streak. As long as his interest holds, there is no out for the hypothetical partner. He is going to be emotionally and mentally abusive at best.

Moving more to the particulars of what he'd want a relationship for, it's worth pointing out that Bishop is very single-minded and relentless in his ultimate goal. I find it very difficult to consider a scenario where any single person would be considered worthwhile enough to distract him from that. We've seen him willing to sacrifice personal friends in-canon for the sake of his experiments, (if you ascribe to the theory that J. Finn was mutated on purpose to some degree,) so his work is ALWAYS going to come first. But that's the nicer option, because there is always the possibility that he would consider a relationship if it benefitted his greater goal (OR fed his ego tbh.) In which case, he's only in it for what he can get out of the other person, and the second they've outlived their usefulness to him, well-- I guess it depends on how much sensitive information they know, by that point.

But, okay! Let's consider President Bishop. He's certainly less likely to lure in a partner just to use them and then dispose of them, so he has that going for him. With him, there is a lot of room for how you want to interpret his "change of heart." You could take it at as presented in the show, or read more into his actions based on what we know about his past. Personally, I prefer the latter, but I'll examine both for the sake of thoroughness, and also for funsies.

So let's assume Bishop is being genuine in how he acts, first. In this case, I think there's a decent chance he could learn to be a good partner, though I don't think he'd start out that way and I doubt it'd come naturally to him loL. His job requires a lot of time and attention from him, and he is always going to prioritize it; he is, after all, "a bigger picture kind of guy." Kindness does not come naturally to him, so in times of stress he may default to meaner actions. However, he is also pretty effective in learning and adapting, so with good communication he probably won't make the same mistakes too often. In this scenario I think time constraint really is the biggest obstacle, given his job.

Now, assuming his Good Guy act is just a mask for politics? He's still pretty damn toxic. Bishop's tactics have changed, but his personality remains pretty similar. I'm not sure his pleasant demeanor goes that deep, once you get into more than small talk. It's a necessity for his job, but he still appears to be cold and utilitarian underneath it. He still thinks he's right about everything, and based on the insidious ways he phrases his own backstory to always shift blame away from himself, (even throwing Stockman under the bus, STILL, just to look better in comparison,) he's gotten a LOT better at making it feel like he is always in the right. What you've got is a Bishop who can lie, persuade and charm better, who also still doesn't care about much beyond protecting his territory and using the people around him. This presents us with a partner who, unlike 2000s-era Bishop, is far FAR more subtle with his abuse. And again, heaven forbid he actually genuinely has an interest in his hypothetical partner, because now he has galactic-wide surveillance and public sway on top of the immortality, and they're never getting away.

I hope that answers to satisfaction! Honestly while it's not my cup of tea it is really interesting to examine this facet of his character, so thank you for the question!!

#and yeah excellent point this guy struggles to form ANY meaningful and/or positive relationship in general #and half of that is because he just doesn't care to #the other half is that he's a BASTARD

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adelrambles · 1 month

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I am so sorry I promise I’ll stop spamming you about Bishop now (maybe.)

Do you think Bishop could ever be in a healthy relationship? What would the dynamic be like with evil Bishop versus Fast Forward Bishop?

And no I don’t mean Stockshop. 😭

So, could Bishop ever be in a healthy relationship? Short answer NO. NOT AT ALL LOL

I hope that answers to satisfaction! Honestly while it's not my cup of tea it is really interesting to examine this facet of his character, so thank you for the question!!

#asks #I don't ship Stockshop anyway but if they were to be together it would be HORRIBLE #Bishop's already abusing the dude and he doesn't even like him #not uh. not that you asked. but #the way my friend Trauma characterizes them is excellent tho chef's kiss shoutout to that guy #I know there's been some new writers on the scene regarding this too that I've been meaning to check out! just haven't gotten around to it #Megaman has suddenly grabbed me by the throat #agent bishop #tmnt 2003 #tmnt 2k3

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adelrambles · 1 month

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I have a question and I’m SO sorry if it’s too personal - please disregard.

But as someone who is aro and/or ace, do you still enjoy reading romances/even smut? Or is it incredibly uninteresting or weird to you?

Haha no worries I don't mind answering! I don't mind romance at all, I even get really into some of them, but I'm REALLY picky about it. If I don't find the romance narratively interesting it tends to annoy me when it takes away "screentime" from concepts that actually are. Having said that, idk if that's the aroace in me, or the literary snob. Or maybe both loL

But some people can write some RIDICULOUSLY engaging romances, and I am SO here for it. At its base, the concept of taking two (or more) characters who are interesting and engaging on their own, and then putting them together and exploring every aspect of that can be absolutely fascinating. It's a good vehicle to really get into each's head, what they want from a partnership, how their flaws grate on one another, what their dynamic looks like and if it changes. I especially enjoy when things don't work out in the end. We have so many romances where everything is sweet and fluffy and goes off without a hitch and like sure, I get the appeal, but man when something takes it a different direction and just uses romance to raze these characters to the ground MAN it hits different. In the end I think the key is that both (or more) characters have to be interesting on their own, first, so then you can play chemist to see what kind of explosion happens when you throw them together (also, it makes it clearer to understand why these guys might want to be together in the firstplace, yknow?)

I'm very much not into smut, though, sorry to say. Moreso on the uninteresting side, I get why people might like it, it just doesn't interest me at all.

#not that you signed up for a mini ramble about writing romance. but #actually no it's in the blog name I'm not sorry I take it back. the rambles are part of the brand #I will say the stuff that REALLY bothers me is x reader content. I don't know why but it activates my fight or flight lmao #is that an aroace thing???? i have no idea #There are plenty of amazing talented x reader writers out there and I am so sorry but I can never read them hahA #asks

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adelrambles · 1 month

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i agree its fun to explore how he thinks. Hes one of my favorite villains.

Eyyy me too! Up top!

#asks #there is just so much to him and a lot of it you gotta go digging for. like tubers. or fossils amirite heyooo #but at the end of the day he is also just an EXCELLENTLY effective villain #they pulled off his intimidation factor really damn well

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adelrambles · 1 month

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I know you mainly talk about bishop. But I am curious what’s your opinion on each of the turtles? I mean in general like who’s your fav and least favorite

Oh yo thanks for the question!! It's true I don't talk about the turtles much here on my blog made to ramble about the turtle shows, woops!

Generally speaking, across all iterations Raph is my absolute favorite in every single one except 2012. Which is funny, because they're all very different archetypes! 03 Raph is my boy, I grew up on the 03 show so I'm somewhat biased towards that take on the characters haha. I find their portrayal of his anger issues and the heart of gold waylaid beneath them to be very interesting, he's all around a very fun and well-written character. Rise Raph is a great mix of goofy idiot teenaged boy and Eldest Daughter Syndrome, and I LOVE his design. I think making him leader was a BRILLIANT change on the usual formula that really pushed his existing character conflict even harder. You can tell he often represses what he wants in favor of what he thinks is expected of him and the pressure really builds up. 87 Raph is just, absolute gem that guy. Funniest theatre kid to ever walk the earth. Love him to death.

The Donnies are usually runner-ups, and as a kid 03 Don was my favorite character, actually! I found his mix of soft-spoken kindness, wicked intelligence and general badassery to be deeply admirable, I wanted to be just like him (Did we get there? Jury's still out.)

I don't know that there's any one of them I'd say I outright dislike, they're all very fun archetypes and I love seeing the different spins every version puts on them. I will say Leos generally don't catch my attention as much, but that's entirely a personal preference. Logically I can see all the complexities packed into those guys, I've just never been interested in protagonist-types, if that makes any sense. Rise Leo was a breath of fresh air in that sense-- and again, a big reason I loved the change in leadership, because we could explore more the idea of who he might be without that pressure, and then, subsequently, how he'd change once put under it.

Uh, does that answer the question? Maybe too much? Well that's just my two cents, in any case haha!

#asks #generally I like characters who are annoying or have something wrong with them #so 03 Mikey and Rise Donnie deserve a shoutout too. and the entire rest of the 87 boys #MM is still way too early to say. I didn't get a lot of individual reads to work with from the movie I feel #2012 does not factor because. i will be honest i do not like that show pff #uh-- fingers crossed this doesn't show up in their tags actually I am so sorry if it does

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adelrambles · 2 months

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sorry if my ask came off patronizing lol

It did not, but thank you for clarifying! If you're the same anon who sent the others, as well, my apologies, I'm taking a little longer to get to those cuz I have more substansial thoughts to say. Got plan out my pseudo-essay, you know how it is 👍

#So many asks all the sudden! I'm loving it heheheh #asks

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adelrambles · 2 months

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WHAT IF I TOLD YOU that Bishop is actually just a silly little guy and he didn’t mean any of it? 🥺👉👈

(LOL)

NICE TRY I know an EPF PR person when I see one! You can't stop the truth short of sending an assassin to my house between the hours of 7-9!

#....you guys wouldn't actually do that though right? haha...#asks

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adelrambles · 2 months

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Raph’s grudge against bishop is justified

Uh, yes! Everybody's grudge against Bishop is justified. He sucks.

#agent bishop #tmnt 2003 #asks #that is one thing I always worry about. I like explaining how Bishop works and why he thinks the way he does #but PLEASE do not forget he is so awful as a person. I will not stand for any woobifying /lh

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adelrambles · 2 months

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Ah, an opportunity to ramble while sprinkling in some of my useless minecraft knowledge! rubs my hands together evilly keheheheh

Splinter is a silverfish, correct! He's also notably still silverfish-sized, teeny tiny. When he was raising the boys he used to try teach them how to hide in rocks, and was very dismayed to find they could not. Other options I was kicking around for him were fox (too common) and Killer Rabbit (a version-specific joke mob that would attack the player on sight, outsped them, and dealt 8 hearts of damage per hit.)

Bishop is indeed a Wither Skeleton! In this AU, his vendetta is against all Overworlders. So he built himself a disguise to blend in, uses it to gain the trust of travellers, and then kills them via inflicting wither. His gloves are thick enough that he can touch things without inflicting wither, but if he takes them off, or someone touches him anywhere else like on the shoulder, wither will take effect.

I'm glad the turtles turned out good! :) Raph is a Bedrock edition-exclusive variant of the sea turtle mob, a ruby turtle!

Karai was one of the most fun designs to work on because she blends two different mob elements together, and if there's one thing I LOVE when it comes to designing, it's fusing existing designs together heheheh. Her "armor" comes from a Phantom she'd slain, which was actually a mob I was considering making her early on! We also considered making Sh'Okanabo the Warden instead of Shredder, early on. But ultimately the intimidation factor and stronger ties to Overworld meant it made more sense to go to Shredder, narratively speaking.

YEAH dw Stockman is still Goin Thru It. He's a potions master and Starlee is something of his student. They're trying to find a way to get his soul back without directly facing the Shredder, since Stockman is absolutely terrified of the guy (and also he got magically sealed away in the time since Stockman's been laying low, woops!) Starlee's the only denizen of the ocean, it seems, who isn't scared of him. They're both Glowsquids!

Serling's always a very fun character for me to write, and this AU was no exception. He was a half-finished guard left abandoned in a destroyed village. Cody found him, finished him up and activated him, and thus Serling's instincts decided this small Piglin was the village he was built to protect. He follows him around no matter what. Unfortunately, Cody keeps befriending monsters, and Serling has to fight every iron ingot in his body not to kill the kid's new buddies constantly.

The dragon gang are also Goin Thru It, sad to say loL

I just realized I never showed off the Minecraft AU designs!! Behold: some guys. Shoutout to @teenagemutantninjatrauma for helping come up with a ton of concepts!!

#glad you enjoy them!! these comments are so fun geheheh #there's so much lore it's ridiculous. help girl #one caveat is that the Infinite april fool's update is utilized in this. because I love the Infinite update forever mwah #the only one that really effects is the dragons (Sh'Okanabo aspires to subjegate all realms) and Bishop (he should not have access to iron)#(and yet his iron sword is his signature)#a lot of it is also built around the concept of Overworld being post-post-apocalypse #and all the fallout from that. a lot of these characters are just trying to survive in a world that's hostile to them

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adelrambles · 2 months

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You have a really good grasp on Bishop (TMNT) character. I really like your analyses on him. But I was wondering something; how does Bishop views each turtle? Which one do you think Bishop believes is the most dangerous? How do you think Bishop will take down the turtles individually? Of course you don’t have to answer this! I was just wondering for my own writing project.

Thank you, I'm very glad to hear that! I'm also quite happy to get questions on him, so much appreciated haha!

This is an interesting one, because we don't really see Bishop do much one-on-one interaction with each turtle, so we're going to have to do a little bit of speculation, based the encounters we do see. I will say that Bishop treats them all as proper threats, (if nuisances,) never letting his guard down even when he has the upper hand. His thoughts on others also tend to begin and end at "how useful are they to me" and "how do I kill them." Also keep in mind that Bishop is known to have been surveilling them before, and might know more about them than we saw him divulge.

If I were to pick one he'd consider the most dangerous, I'd probably say Don, which I'll justify below haha. But honestly Mikey has the possibility of being a close second, more based on speculation than anything we actually see on-screen.

After some review of the scenes where they interact, here's my best approximation:

Donatello

This one is the simplest to figure out, I think, because we already know Bishop holds scientists in much higher regard than most people, even when they happen to be non-human (see: his (granted, taunting) praise of Leatherhead's work during the Good Genes arc.) I think Bishop is aware of Don's genius and most likely finds it a shame he can't make use of it, himself.

It seems like Bishop dodges around Don's bo the most out of any of the turtles, never outright stealing it like he's done with the others. I suspect this is because Don has the widest reach with his weapon, and Bishop is more likely to dodge away than go for a counter, when it comes to him. For this reason, Donny might qualify as the one Bishop deems the most dangerous. He's also the one who takes Bishop off-guard during the fake invasion, twice! First sneaking up on him to get the first attack, and then intercepting his lunge at Raph, ultimately knocking him down one of the tunnels and winning the fight.

If approaching him one-on-one, I think Bishop would try to keep the environment tight and cluttered, to make it harder for Don to use his weapon. He needs to even the field (by which he means, of course, giving himself a dominating advantage,) by ensuring Don can't make use of his weapon's extra reach, which will allow Bishop to counter more freely.

Michelangelo

This dynamic starts off with a mutual underestimation. Mikey attacks Bishop after being freed from the surgical table, assuming he's just some government lackey, only to be taken off-guard when Bishop dodges and counters-- enough that he immediately gets pinned again. Bishop, for his part, seems to have singled Mikey out as something of an easier target among his brothers, and is blindsided when Mikey himself is able to get free from being held hostage.

Bishop seems to be comfortable with-- even possibly has a preference for-- chains as weapons, so he tends to try make use of Mikey's nunchaku, tangling his siblings' weapons in them often. Mikey seems to have caught on to this in subsequent encounters, though. There is the potential here for something of a rivalry; though the show doesn't push it. With both having underestimated one another, and taking one another more seriously after the fact, and taking into account that Mikey is noted to be the most skilled of the turtles when he really tries, there's certainly real estate for an escalation in this dynamic.

One-on-one, in that same vein, I think Bishop takes Mikey seriously, as someone who has proven to be difficult to predict and someone who learns and adapts (like him!) Bishop's superior speed will be his friend, here. Even if Mikey takes him by surprise, it won't be a big problem as long as he can keep on his toes and get some distance.

Leonardo

Bishop is probably aware that Leo acts as the squad leader, and that can be pretty useful information, though I don't think he ever really makes use of it that we see. What he does seem to make use of is Leo's honor and loyalty, leveraging family or allies more than once to trip him up in combat (Usually as in taking a hostage, i.e. Mikey and Karai.) There's even a chance he was banking on Leo's loyalty to coerce a deal out of them during Good Genes.

I think Leo gets his sword stolen the most out of all the weapons Bishop yoinks. Other than that, there's not much unique to how Bishop approaches him as he does his brothers, that I was able to see. One-on-one Bishop's probably more likely to try some mind games, knowing Leo's buttons already. If he's aware of the shoulder injury, he'd definitely target it. And steals his swords, of course.

Raphael

Turns out I have the least to say on poor Raph. He clearly hates Bishop with a burning passion, but Bishop doesn't seem to think all that much of him. His sai are made use of to catch his siblings' weapons second most often after Mikey's nunchaku, though!

Raph's also a prime target for mind games one-on-one. His emotional reactions make him unfortunately easy to rile up into tunnel-visioning. This means he's also really easy to use the environment against, which happens to be one of Bishop's fortes. Bishop also seems pretty comfortable stealing his sai. Essentially, Raph's less of a threat to him the more emotional he gets, so Bishop will certainly be pushing all his buttons.

Fast Forward

I don't know if this is as relevant to you, but it could offer some insight into the trajectory of these dynamics, perhaps? In any case President Bishop's first appearance has him calling them friends, which implies that eventually he and the turtles form an allyship (probably years down the line.) He also seems to be taken off-guard when the time-traveling versions don't want to work with him-- presumably he assumed they were further down the timeline than they were.

Now again there's not much one-on-one, but we know Bishop seems to get annoyed at points with their general... teenager-ness, lack of focus, perceived unprofessionalism, all that. He gets sarcastic with them plenty of times during Head of State. He does appear to obfuscate the information he allows them access to, as well, (you cannot convince me he actually dismissed those Sh'Okanabo reports. He was trying to redirect them away from it for whatever reason, I think,) which suggests to me he's trying to control where their attention is pointed. But he also clearly considers them capable, mostly contacting them to contract them as a sort of personal black ops assassin team.

We do get a clear dynamic in how each turtle approaches Bishop! Leo seems the most convinced of his redemption, interestingly enough, and is shown willing to jump to his aid in moments of crisis. Raph is least convinced, taking any opportunity to needle Bishop about his past actions. Mikey and Don are more neutral, but Mikey leans closer to the distrusting side, while Don leans closer to the trusting side (or at least, the "being polite" side.)

Finally, it's worth pointing out that Bishop does have a something of an established rivalry with Splinter, who has proven capable of keeping up with him one-on-one. Don't know if that'll factor in for you, but it warranted a shoutout!

Hope some of this helps, at least, and have fun with your project! It sounds very intriguing heheh

#OOH EXCELLENT ADDITION #that's very interesting! I didn't notice it but now that you point it out it really IS a pattern! Thanks!

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adelrambles · 2 months

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Thank you, I'm very glad to hear that! I'm also quite happy to get questions on him, so much appreciated haha!

After some review of the scenes where they interact, here's my best approximation:

Donatello

Michelangelo

Leonardo

Raphael

Fast Forward

Hope some of this helps, at least, and have fun with your project! It sounds very intriguing heheh

#agent bishop #tmnt 2003 #tmnt 2k3 #asks #teenage mutant ninja turtles #we might be able to use our own knowledge of each turtle's fighting style and try speculate what Bishop would think of it #like Leo fights more traditionally right. which I think would make him a lot easier for Bishop to handle #if Bishop can predict you you don't really register as very dangerous to him #whereas Mikey seems to have a lot in common with Bishop in terms of fighting style. a lot of dodging around and using the opponent's-#-strength against them. He's also the one to accurately analyze that Bishop makes great use of his speed in combat.#this makes him a more difficult matchup in combat #I tried to keep this mostly to just what could be gleaned from observing their interactions in the show tho

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adelrambles · 4 months

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On making a good guy/redeemed!Bishop:

If you're redeeming 03 Bishop or simply taking cues from him for your own iteration, it helps to keep in mind that being kind and helpful do not come naturally to him at all. He'll need space to consider his actions, and if he doesn't get it he'll likely default to the meaner course of action.

This does, of course, depend on how much time he's had to practice being the good guy. Take Fast Forward's President Bishop, for example. He's had at least 50 years to adjust his behavior to better fit his ambassador role, and thus he doesn't appear to struggle in the good guy role nearly all that much.

One final note, if you're doing an original iteration and want a good guy Bishop, 2012 Bishop is a good character to take cues from! He's VERY different from his predecessors, but he is a genuinely selfless and kind person. Though he is stoic and can come across as distant, his actions reflect someone who deeply cares about the well-being of everyone around him. In complete contrast to his 03 counterpart, 12 will and has gone against his ultimate mission in order to better protect people he's never met before. He's ultimately a great choice because he maintains several personality quirks in common with 03, but is on the entire opposite end of the moral spectrum.

Tips on Writing Bishop

I've been asked a couple times for advice on how to write a good (03-style) Bishop, and I'm well-aware he can be a bit tough to get a grasp on. As someone who's studied him specifically to learn how to write him as accurately as possible, I figured I'd compile some thoughts in case it'd be helpful to anyone else. I know a lot of Rise takes on him are basing off the 03 version, so maybe this could help generate ideas, too. SO!

Big Overall Points!

At the core of EVERYTHING Bishop does are two primary motivations. The first: the protection of the earth. What this means to him can get tricky, because it doesn't necessarily mean protecting the people, at least not all of them. But it will be better understood alongside the other:

The second: The protection of his sense of safety. Bishop has been deeply traumatized, and everything he does is born of a want to avoid that pain ever again. In his mind, earth is a safe area, a controllable factor, and anything outside it is a danger that must be eliminated. This is why he will still be willing to put himself and other people on the line in service of this; any sacrifice is worth the greater goal. (It's worth noting, Bishop will claim the first as his motivation freely, but is likely not consciously aware of the second.)

Bishop deals in Big Picture ONLY. Another reason Bishop will willingly throw away anything, including the lives of the people he claims to protect, is that he seems incapable of understanding things on a small, individual basis.

Bishop is a cold personality. He does not have strong displays of emotion. He does emote, but for the most part it's muted, so I recommend using emotional bursts very sparingly. (In my own writing, as an example, I try to limit my use of exclamation marks in his dialogue as much as possible.)

At his core, Bishop is afraid, and his response to fear is aggression. This also makes it particularly difficult to talk him down, if he's put in an emotional state. His response to not being in control is often violent retaliation.

With those basic tenants understood, let's move next to some major personality traits:

Bishop is a controlling personality. This is a direct result of his trauma response. Things that can be controlled are safe, therefore he must control everything. If something cannot be controlled, it's a threat that must be eliminated. If he doesn't know why something happened, he becomes angry (including even when it benefits him.)

Bishop is very low-empathy. When writing him, I try to keep in mind that he cannot put himself in the perspective of others. (Or if he can, he doesn't care to.)

Bishop is a sadist. He gets personal enjoyment from hurting others.

Bishop likes fighting, but only when he's winning. He will quickly leave if he can't see a guaranteed victory.

Bishop is paranoid. This is probably self-evident, but it's the reason he's often so well-prepared even when things don't go to plan.

Bishop genuinely seems to enjoy science. He's shown to be far more lenient with scientist characters than anyone else, and he seems to involve himself in his scientists' projects to a degree. Enough to, at the very least, understand their work. (Given he was the one set to dissect the turtles, it might also be argued he has some medical or biology background, himself.)

Bishop is an opportunist and scavenger. He can roll with failures as long as he can find something to get out of it. If he's presented with an opportunity to stab someone in the back, and he has something to gain? He'll take it without a second thought.

Bishop is deeply self-blind. For all his perceptiveness and strategic prowess, Bishop is not very self-aware in the slightest. He is completely blind to his own hypocrisies, and thoroughly confident in his own righteousness.

Bishop adapts fast. He accepts situations for what they are and acts (Though he may still be angry about them, or what have you.) This is likely a skill developed via longevity; the world around him has changed rapidly, but he doesn't feel out of place at all.

Bishop will take extreme risks and thinks wildly outside the box. Also self-evident, if you're familiar with the plans he enacts throughout the show. He'll put a lot on the line if he thinks the reward is worth enough, and he's willing to go to extreme lengths to get what he wants, even if his plans would be considered crazy by normal standards.

Bishop is persistent. If he wants something, he won't stop until he gets it. If he fails, he'll retreat, make a new plan, and try again. It is very difficult to convince him to back down (and certainly not on moral grounds.)

Habits and triggers I've noted:

Being restrained of any sort puts Bishop in a panic. He is more likely to have an emotional response in these scenarios, and seems to have (an albeit muted) desperation to escape. (See: Leatherhead restraining him in the first encounter; His reaction to being trapped on the surgical table in Head of State.)

When being duplicitous or suppressing a reaction, Bishop will go to adjust his tie. This could possibly be considered his tell.

Bishop seems to have a particular fear of aliens blending in as humans. His slayer project was built around the assumption that this is a common threat. (Worth noting: This makes The Shredder the model of the exact threat Bishop is afraid of. Technically, Bishop himself may also fit the description of a threat shaped like a human.)

Writing considerations:

In 03's narrative, Bishop is EPF and EPF is Bishop. Narratively speaking, any organization Bishop is head of acts as if it is an extension of his will and character.

Bishop is shown to strike fear and/or discomfort into most characters he interacts with. Anything beyond this is an outlier, and will draw a reader's attention.

Dialogue-wise, Bishop is generally succinct and blunt. He does dabble in gloating, though, and especially likes to upset others. If he's given a chance to be mean, he'll usually take it. It can help to consider he has a Mission Mode and a Normal Mode. When it comes to Mission Mode, he gets straight to the point and hates unnecessary talking. Otherwise, he's still not very talkative, but will take the time to make pointed jabs or talk through a plan. A lot of his sense of humor seems to be rooted in how He's Better Than You (And You're Going To Die Painfully.)

It's a common pitfall that Bishop is depicted as seeking out the turtles. In 03, once he gets their DNA, he's done with them. Any encounters after that are incidental. Bishop does not care about anything that won't effect his greater goal. If he's targeting another character, it should have to do with a greater plan.

Bishop is an extremely competent combatant, shown to be able to handle up to 7 opponents at once. For a breakdown on his fighting style check out my other post on that!

Bishop is hard to kill, and oftentimes he accidentally contributes to his own defeat. (The hook from Bishop's Gambit is an example I get a LOT of mileage out of, as a perfect symbol of his self-defeating prophecies.)

We almost only ever see Bishop in the context of his work. While it could be construed that he depersonalizes himself, it's much more clear that the narrative depersonalizes him. As far as we, the audience know, Bishop's work is all that he is.

It's unclear if Bishop was released from his abduction or escaped. Depending on which you ascribe to, this can have ramifications for his mindset on how to deal with the alien threat. (Personally, because so much of his inability to cope hinges on a feeling of helplessness, I believe he was released. If he escaped on his own power, that undercuts it, somewhat.)

Thematically-speaking, Bishop parallels both his own torturers and his own victims at the same time. He has perpetuated the cycle that traumatized him in the first place by trying to fight fire with fire. (In that vein, I don't think he's capable of understanding that, not seeing aliens as people in the first place, just dangers. Considering how deeply ingrained his trauma is in his worldview and actions, it would probably ruin him, if he were ever able to actually grasp it.)

Bishop and EPF are likely a commentary on the military of the time 03 was coming out. This can be something worth keeping in mind, when figuring out his greater themes in your story, though it can just as well be discarded if it doesn't fit.

Adding to that, Bishop has an extensive american military background. His skills and knowledge will reflect that.

Bishop also plays on and references a number of real-life alien conspiracies. It can be worth digging through conspiracy history to drum up ideas and themes, too.

The ethical and philosophical quandaries of Bishop's body-hopping and humanity tend to not hold too much weight, because Bishop, himself, doesn't seem to care.

If I think of more I'll certainly be adding on to the reblogs of this post! Or, if you have more thoughts, please feel free to add! If you're in the mood for more Bishop ramblings, that's practically most of this blog atm, but this post is a particular favorite. If you're interested in Fast Forward!Bishop, specifically, consider this post! (also read Taking Pawns. slipped in that self-promo, nice.)

#That's just my two cents tho #tbf I can see 12 being a bit less desirable as a base because he has weaker narrative connections to the story #He is not the leader of epf OR the utrom high council. He is a hogh-ranking agent in both but not in complete control like 03 #and he does not possess the same unstoppable insatiable motivation which makes 03 so compelling #(but then that motivation tends to ultimately lead one to do horrible things anyway so. not the best pick for a Good Guy)#but that's just my two cents

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adelrambles · 4 months

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More great tags from @antimattercontainment! Bishop is too consumed by his revenge against the extraterrestrial threat to spend time and energy caring about much else. This is also why I think Fast Forward does kinda have a leg to stand on, in its implication that Bishop and the turtles eventually become allies. To a degree, their goals align in the interest of protecting Earth, and the turtles have also already helped his cause on numerous occasions. I can assume he'd notice this pattern eventually.

Tips on Writing Bishop

Big Overall Points!

With those basic tenants understood, let's move next to some major personality traits:

Bishop is very low-empathy. When writing him, I try to keep in mind that he cannot put himself in the perspective of others. (Or if he can, he doesn't care to.)

Bishop is a sadist. He gets personal enjoyment from hurting others.

Bishop likes fighting, but only when he's winning. He will quickly leave if he can't see a guaranteed victory.

Bishop is paranoid. This is probably self-evident, but it's the reason he's often so well-prepared even when things don't go to plan.

Habits and triggers I've noted:

When being duplicitous or suppressing a reaction, Bishop will go to adjust his tie. This could possibly be considered his tell.

Writing considerations:

In 03's narrative, Bishop is EPF and EPF is Bishop. Narratively speaking, any organization Bishop is head of acts as if it is an extension of his will and character.

Bishop is shown to strike fear and/or discomfort into most characters he interacts with. Anything beyond this is an outlier, and will draw a reader's attention.

Bishop is an extremely competent combatant, shown to be able to handle up to 7 opponents at once. For a breakdown on his fighting style check out my other post on that!

Adding to that, Bishop has an extensive american military background. His skills and knowledge will reflect that.

Bishop also plays on and references a number of real-life alien conspiracies. It can be worth digging through conspiracy history to drum up ideas and themes, too.

The ethical and philosophical quandaries of Bishop's body-hopping and humanity tend to not hold too much weight, because Bishop, himself, doesn't seem to care.

#it helps to have another party keeping an eye out that he doesn't have to keep on payroll #plus they probably stop trying to kill him outright after coming back home #I'm sure that's confusing but probably also works in their favor in terms of getting on his good side #(assuming he doesn't take it as an insult somehow)#all the in-between stuff is so nebulous it could really go either way. VERY fun to explore too

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