#which makes.. a lot of sense honestly its very characteristic of the running themes w class in america

[whentheynameyoujoy]

Women in SPN—Is it Really That Bad?

TL;DR: Somewhat, yeah, it kinda is.

This is going to be a series of long ones, people.

Before I jump head first into this giant vat of weird toxic shit, let me say something:

The thing about most of the female characters is that on their own? They’re perfectly fine, ranging from serviceable to the occasional flash of thematic brilliance. Barely any of them qualify as “this is hateful on its face and incompetent regardless of context and the writers should feel bad for ever conceiving of it”, i.e. the normie benchmark for justified criticism. It’s only when you put these characters next to each other that a worrying pattern emerges;

Although discussions about sexism in the media were very much a thing in the mid-2000s, as well as shows with characters whose primary role wasn’t to serve a man’s needs, I can’t honestly claim that the flaws of SPN are out of the norm for its time; and

The first few seasons could really do with a PSA at the start of each episode, something along the lines of “A part of the reason why female characters are killed off or written out with such regularity is rabid superfans who couldn’t abide anything with tits brushing against J2, srsly, the writing team and the 2000s’ fan base were a match made in hell, except it wasn’t the writers who couldn’t do with bitching on their LiveJournals about the gall of women to exist in the show, choosing instead to harass the creators and actresses and wives and call them every sexist insult under the sun AND I MEAN WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE HAS THERE EVER BEEN A CESSPIT AS DISGUSTING AND NUKEWORTHY AS THE SPN FANDO—“

Anyway.

SPN has a legacy (as a posterchild for not knowing when to bow out gracefully, but legacy nonetheless) and isn’t watched in 2005 but in the year of our Lord Today. Meaning that as time goes by, the issues surrounding the show’s production retreat into the background and only what’s on the screen remains, to be judged on its own merits.

So let’s run down a list of the more noteworthy and relevant female characters of the first arc, focusing on their characterization, role in the narrative, and end. In the conclusion to this series of posts, the sum of characters will be analyzed as a whole to see if there are any unique tendencies in the show’s handling of women as opposed to that of men. I’ll do this for the original five seasons as the recent finale went out of its way to say that nothing after season 5 was strictly speaking necessary so why bother.

(Also because I died of frustration in season 8 and vowed not to subject myself to any more of the post-apocalypse fanfic era)

Angels, while strictly speaking genderless clouds of energy, will be classified as men or women depending on the apparent gender of the vessel they spend most of the time riding. The same goes for demons where I also take into account their stated gender while they were alive. That’s because although beings like Meg, Ruby, Anna, or Lilith can’t technically be considered women in the show’s present day, their consistent preference for conventionally attractive and/or female vessels throughout the original arc makes claims of genderlessness essentially meaningless. For all intents and purposes, we’re watching girls and women on screen.

Baby—the only true NB of the first run

All right, time to jump.

Say hi to our ladies!

Mary Winchester

Killed in the very first scene to give the story a reason to exist, she remains an active presence throughout the first arc where she has a wide-reaching influence on the plot and characters, driving the conflict on several levels. Fleshed-out more and more with each appearance to be more than just “the dead mom”, she’s portrayed as protective, pro-active, capable, and assertive, mirroring the duo’s desire for normal life and their inability to have it. Her story comes full-circle in season 5 when the personal tragedy of her fate is embedded in the wider tragedy of the Winchester family curse and the overall theme of destiny.

Status: Dead as of s5

Importance: Major

On her own: Textbook example of fridging… and that tropes aren’t bad in and of themselves.

Jessica Moore

Comparatively, if anyone doubts fridging can evolve into something meaningful, Jess drives the point home by having no personality and no point but to prop up her boyfriend before she ends up pinned to the ceiling, the reveal of which is the most interesting thing about her entire existence. At best she’s a symbol of Sam’s civilian life, at worst an obstacle to be removed for the story to happen.

Status: Dead as of s5

Importance: Major in terms of manpain, non-existent otherwise

On her own: A cardboard cut-out, barely qualifies as a character

Missouri Moseley

A psychic and the primary reason why John Winchester even knows to wipe his ass. Appears once over the course of the first arc yet everyone wants her to come back years later—that’s how awesome she is. Has this fantastic trait of being compassionate and empathetic while not taking a single speck of shit from anyone, especially when it comes from the two main dumbos who might just as well have been raised in a barn. Is very particular about the pristine state of her coffee table.

Status: Alive as of s5, killed in s13 (wait, what?)

Importance: Major…ly wasted potential

On her own: As strong a character as Bobby Singer, and as worthy of being elevated to the main cast.

Lori Sorensen

The writers can’t figure out why anyone in the universe would care about Jess either so they insert an intentionally awkward romance subplot to convince people the time’s not yet ripe for Sam to stop grieving and start slaying. The result’s… erm… well, awkward. Lori’s naïve, sheltered, devout though accepting of her non-repressed friend, and sort of on a religious crossroads because of her hypocritical preacher father. I guess the virginal power of her virginal virginity does… something in the plot? Primarily a vehicle for Sam to mark the stages of his moving on.

Status: Alive as of s5

Importance: Minor

On her own: A bit done. Like a bit lot. Like a “could be a trope namer” bit lot.

Meg

Boom, baby!

Arguably the chief antagonist of season 1 and one of the best things about it. The first one to point out the pervasive toxicity of the Winchester family business, so props for perceptiveness. Possesses the standard qualities of a lower-level henchman—manipulative, no-nonsense, and quietly sinister which, while not exactly groundbreaking, sets her apart from the other bad guys in the season as they tend to have no distinguishing characteristics at all. Plus Nicki Aycox makes the role seem more unique and “lived-in” by projecting a sense of understated amusement at the two main chucklefucks. Is one of S1’s turning points in blurring the lines between monsters and humanity. Has a face transplant twice—once to have revenge (good on her) and the other time to pursue someone else’s goals again before getting stomped into the ground like a mook.

Status: Alive as of s5 (?), killed in s8

Importance: Major

On her own: The actresses do most of the heavy lifting. Which doesn’t mean I don’t love watching the character burst onto the scene and announcing the end of the Winchester brand of bullshit.

Layla Rourke

A terminal cancer patient in a religious cult, she’s a more mature take on a Lori-type character and the themes of faith and doubt. Serves as a conduit for Dean’s budding survivor guilt, self-loathing, and sense of worthlessness. Is kind and cheerful, with strong hints that she’s relying on forced optimism to get through the days; also understanding of the circumstances of others while realistically freaked about the possibility of death. Weirdly, she enters the episode already in a state of acceptance and leaves it just as accepting when it’s confirmed that yeah, she’ll die soon. All expressions of anger at the injustice and senselessness are left to her mother which somewhat undermines the “struggling” portion of Layla’s character and renders the final scene where she makes peace with her fate a bit hollow.

Status: Implied dead

Importance: Minor in the overall narrative, major in the episode and Dean’s development

On her own: I want to like her, I really do, just… if only she were allowed to get pissed, once.

Cassie Robinson

Dean’s ex and that’s pretty much all there is to her. I struggle to pinpoint a single personality trait of hers—the 2000s idea of a “strong woman” and “not like other girls”, perhaps? Undermined as a love interest because TPTB don’t show the happy or any parts of her relationship with Dean so really, why should anyone care if two sniping assholes with little to no chemistry get back together? Memorable for being in a horribly scored softcore scene which YouTube tries to convince me lasts for shy over a minute, not the week I remember it to. Involved in the show’s first and last attempt at incorporating the issue of anti-black racism.

Status: Alive as of s5

Importance: Minor

On her own: She’s in the racist truck episode. ‘Nuff said.

Sarah Blake

A sophisticated people-person conversationalist with a love of high art and a deep sense of introspection. Ascends to the state of godhood by being able to pull off pigtails while adult. Bonds with Sam over responding to loss by crawling into a shell but deciding to move on. Doesn’t care for your fancy schmancy fine dining, Romeo. Isn’t ashamed to openly talk feelings which includes her explicitly asking Sam if they have a thing going on (honestly, this is such a breath of fresh air for a normcore romance). Despite being scared out of her wits, she refuses to be shoved into the helpless civilian box after learning about the existence of the supernatural; Dean creates a Pinterest wedding board in response.

Status: Alive as of s5, pointlessly dragged back to be murdered in s8

Importance: Minor in the overall narrative, major in the episode and Sam’s development

On her own: A great love interest that has enough writing behind her to fool you into thinking she’s something more.

Up next, whenever I feel like it, seasons 2 and 3!

#spn #spn critical #supernatural #supernatural critical #sexist writing #mary winchester #missouri moseley #meg masters #sarah blake #layla rourke

[j4nn4s]

rules:

always repost the rules

answer the questions given to you by the one who tagged you!

give 11 questions

tag 11 people

i was tagged by @isakvdhflorenzi, ty miss lorena <3 1. Is the social media presence of the characters important to how you view the quality of the remake/show?

hm well skam nl is my favorite and their social media game is trash LMAOOO so generally No but i do feel like remakes who DO have such a good presence kind of elevate the show and i think it’s pretty heartwarmin to see some remakes go sm farther than skam with social media and puttin out educational and IN CHARA resources like skames does this so well and i feel like in that way, the team is really really spreadin skam’s spirit via these resources (like joana’s billion bpd awareness ig accounts and lucas rubio’s yt channel)

2. Least favourite clip of the show? Why?

tbh there are definitely some duds but probably one of the clips with sana gettin herself into a hole in s4 just bc some were hard to watch cus cringey or yikes .... idk i cant think of others LMAO

3. Which character did you feel the most connected to and why?

ijeoiqjiwoij even tho even is my all time fave skam chara, i have to say isak for all of these reasons 

4. Your least favourite part of every season?

season 1 - tbh even though i really enjoyed this season, it does take a while for it to build up like i rmr at first not being that interested until ep6 maybe ?? which is hard when you’re trying to get your friends to watch but they have to wait until ep6 before shit starts RLLY buildin up and gettin wild

season 2 - hm ig noora chasin after william ??

season 3 - bro NOTHINGGG call me a purist but its such a refined masterpiece like the pacing is good the characterization is so good ugh i deadass cant think of anythin

season 4 - i always felt a little ??? w noora being sana’s bff ig bc from s1-s3 it didn’t Feel like they were that close like even in noora’s pov, sana wasn’t really a part of it that much ?? like eva was more of noora’s bff ?? so i feel like it would have made more sense if maybe sana spoke more with chris or vilde bc sana and vilde eventually seemed to get closer esp with kosegruppa and chris has always been by sana’s side ?? idk that always confused me

5. What is your opinion on the cast’s participation on social media? Do you prefer it when the cast aren’t that involved like the Skam cast, or do you like a lot of content like the Fr cast do?

tbh i don’t care much abt the casts LMAOOO if anythin it kind of brings more harm as seen with the harassment axel and maxence get and also can bring more controversy like with irene (which honestly is p sad considerin how much i love skames bc now i feel super :/ watchin it like she shouldve just had private accts at this point)

6. Favourite song you found from Skam or the remakes?

OMFGGG love this question .... def doorman by slowthai and mura masa bc its one of my fave songs now and i got it from skam nl <3 ugh taste

7. If you could decide which characters from Skam got a season, who would you choose?

OOOHHH ugh torn bc i like isak’s pov but also i want even’s so might have to forfeit isak season for even season ....... hm so probs vilde, sana, even, noora (maybe not w william tho) and honestly maybe jonas too ??

8. Are there any moments that you liked in the show that everyone else seems to hate?

IJXDWQOIJJ yes .... remakes-wise, people hate skam nl s2’s last half but i enjoyed it for the most part ... i think the pacing was off for the last ep but personally, clip 50 made up for it and is p god tier imo ..... and also don’t think the first half of ep10 is enough to discredit the entire season bc i rlly loved seeing liv’s pov and have sm fave moments from the season 

but skam wise, omg might get a lil controversial w this one IM SORRY !!! im bein honest and its Just my opinion ok 

personally s2 got me more invested than s1 and i don’t think its a super bad season like i didnt really say many problems wrong with it until i got on tumblr wiejioqjoiqjq i was sort of interested in the questions that the noora/william dynamic brought up which is, as expressed in william’s war speech to noora, that nothing is ever black/white which i feel was a huge message and feeds into the ‘you never know what ppl are going through’ theme of the season ... like i like the idea of someone like noora, who can have a black/white mentality (as seen in the first clip of s2 when she tells vilde that they can’t have the tannin company as their sponsor bc they objectify women or smth but misses the context and what it could mean for the bus monetarily bc shes caught up in bein ‘woke’) having to break out of that and see more than one side ... and i think remakes like skam austin expanded on this idea well like when zoya was like ‘must be so nice being right all the time’ which i Do feel like is an important for youth to know today .... bc i think its so easy to get caught up in the idea of being so objectively right and morally superior that people lose sight of the more nuanced characteristics to life ... (omg long ramble BUT)

also LMAOOOOO this one might be more controversial as it pertains to bench scene s4 ok oops again doNT GOTTA AGREE !! ........ but i feel like the scene had a lot of good intentions ... i was def kind of cringing a bit tho bc i understand the subject’s sensitivity and how these topics are hard to talk about but i genuinely feel like they both made Some points and should listen to each other .... like as Hard and as maybe ‘unwoke’ it is to admit, unfortunately you sort of do have to answer the tough questions bc that way we learn from each other .... and i perfectly understand why some ppl wouldn’t want to do this and i certainly am tired abt havin to answer shit abt my sexuality or stupid male questions abt women but if u dont answer them, people do go lookin for answers still and the internet is such a shitty place that its pretty easy (esp with youtube’s algorithm) to lead you to ignorant ppl and perhaps radicalization .... questions help us to better understand our community and sometimes they can have good intentions too but we have to ask and answer them or else people will make up answers (which ive literally seen and its honestly worse to see fake as shit and UNINFORMED answers bc ppl did not want to ask you or ppl of ur identity, esp when they’re already startin from a place of hate .... but i rather have ppl ask me patronizing questions than have them spread false info bc that can do much more harm in the long run) however i DO think that isak should also consider sana’s side and i sort of wish we saw him conceding more bc they both have smth to learn from one another, like sana shouldn’t just be learnin from isak, isak needs to learn from sana too

PHEW SORRY QWIOJQWIO girl i just got opinions on some things this is when my desc rlly comes in handy .... oqjdwqioj

9. What did you learn from the show?

omg honestly too much to write here tbh ..... but if it says anythin im (very slowly) in the works of a three part skam essay about basically how skam teaches us to be better humans and how to better treat the people we care about diowjqioj essentially the three biggest themes of the show: you never know what someone is going through so always be kind, always communicate with your friends, and no person is ever alone and i feel like these are definitely rlly good messages to live by (also livet er nå BITCH !!!)

10. What is your favourite headcanon about your favourite characters?

omg tbh i could not tell u at all how the skam charas are doing except i hope even is okay thats all im thinkin of ok .... OIWXIOJX omg remakes wise tho ..... honestly im so bad at this girl IDK !!!!! LMAO i have to really think i have a bit of vdh and dutch even but thats bc we know like Zero abt them so its easier oijwiojqio idk liv and noah bein cute as shit ..... OH WAIT personally i feel like janna got a bunch of pansexual energy so my BIGGG hc is that she’s pan also bc she’s one of my all time fave charas and my fkn url so itd be dope if she was pan ok boom

11. What is your opinion on fanfiction in the fandom?

tbh i don’t read skam fanfiction but i don’t mind reading some from the remakes (tho still its rare) ... eiojeioqw i just don’t trust anyone but julie to write skam charas bc i think that’s how precious the show is to me LMAO like idk everything ive seen of skam fanfiction and ficlets and one shots, i could never get into bc the tone is just so out of character or there will be lines that just take me out of the fic bc im like this !!!! is not !!! how the chara acts !!!! so yeah idk not rlly a fan bc of my purist ass but i dont mind others reading it

Questions:

1. Favorite quote of the show?

2. Which country would you like to see have the next remake? Do you have any headcanons?

3. Which season would you rewrite and how would you rewrite it?

4. What clips do you personally like or don’t mind, but others hate?

5. Which songs do you think SKAM or the remakes should have included? For which moments?

6. Who would you give SKAM season five to and what topics and themes would it cover?

7. What moment spoke to you or touched you from SKAM the most?

8. How did you find SKAM? How did you feel about it right after watching?

9. Have you shared SKAM with any friends in real life? What did they think of it?

10. Of the remakes, which characters are your favorite of their SKAM counterparts? (Ex. who is the best Vilde remake? Eva? etc.)

11. How do you feel about the SKAM (and remakes) tumblr fandom?

I tag: @smileykeijser @whatadaze @queenofpurgatoryx @itlukey @skamyeets @shaykeijser @megeliz01 @isakcijser @wackpainterkid @axelauriantblot @kar-d-momme

(omg ik some of yall have been tagged so just ignore if u dont want to do it ok im srry it was in the RULES!)

#long post #skam opinions #tag meme