#victor salazer

[gleefulfan]

In Defense of Benji Pt. 2/2

Part 1

Here's the last three episodes of Season 2. Like I said in part 1 (which I’d recommend reading first), I’m not trying to make Benji out as a saint, I’m just trying to show why Benji did the things he did and that a lot of the comments I’ve seen about him have been unfair.

2x08 (The Morning After): I have to break this episode down into three parts because so much happens.

Initial Victor/Benji/Isabel fight: All Victor and Benji need at this point is some hot make-up sex and a nice honest conversation the next morning. Unfortunately they only get part-way through the first before Isabel walks in on them. Everyone is understandably upset and Victor and his mom are arguing while Benji listens in.

When Isabel says “What excuse could you possibly have for doing that in my house?” Benji, who has had an extremely emotional evening, can’t take it anymore. Now it’s impossible to know how exactly Isabel would have reacted had Benji been a girl, but you can certainly understand why Benji assumes that this is just another homophobic comment from Isabel after months and months of them.

The argument is honestly not too bad until Adrian walks in and Isabel calls Benji Victor’s “friend” yet again. Now we know and Victor knows that she’s called Benji his boyfriend before and is only saying this because of Adrian, but Benji doesn’t know that. To him, it’s just more homophobia. And while it’s impossible to know exactly what Benji’s intentions are in this moment, I firmly believe that Benji was not intentionally outing Victor to Adrian, but demanding that Isabel recognize his and Victor’s relationship. The outburst came from frustration and passion, not malice.

At that point Isabel kicks Benji out and when Benji looks to Victor for support, Victor backs up his mom. You can see the disappointment on Benji’s face and that he feels like Victor sided with his homophobic mother over his boyfriend.

Victor/Benji Coffeehouse fight: When Victor and Benji see each other again at work, both are looking for an apology. Honestly, I don’t really get the first two-thirds of Victor’s request for an apology. Of the three people involved in Isabel walking in on them, Benji’s the least to blame. It’s not his house, he didn’t know Adrian was there, Victor asked him to his room. And even if Isabel wasn’t being homophobic, she’s been homophobic towards Benji so many times without any apology or remonstration that it’s hardly his fault for assuming it.

Victor and Benji argue over Victor’s mom again and it’s at this point Victor says “I’m sorry we can’t all have totally supportive liberal white parents like you do.” Benji responds saying “What does being white have to do with anything?”

I find this interaction really frustrating because it comes completely out of the blue. Have Victor and Benji ever discussed race before? Has Victor ever cited his mom’s Latinx upbringing as a reason for the way she’s been acting? Obviously, when a POC tells a white person that they don’t understand something in that person’s life because they’re white, Benji’s response is not the right one. Benji is a seemingly progressive teenager in a well-to-do suburb of Atlanta, I find it hard to believe he doesn’t have any concept of race and how it may have affected Victor and his family. But we don’t get anything beyond these two lines.

To move outside of the text for a moment, it feels like these lines were inserted so that Victor and Rahim could talk about race later in the episode rather than have Victor and Benji actually talk about race. And that later scene is really good, but it comes at the expense of making Benji seem inexplicably callous about something really important. I really hope we get an opportunity in season 3 for Benji and Victor to really talk about this.

Other than that, Victor is kinda awful to Benji here. He calls Benji’s parents “totally supportive” when he knows they weren’t and that Benji really struggled. And Benji’s opinion shouldn’t be “meaningless” even if there are things about the situation he can’t understand. I understand why Victor’s upset but it should be no surprise that Benji stalks off.

Victor/Benji at Benji’s House: Victor goes over after not being able to contact Benji all day. They actually talk about Victor being worried and Benji’s alcoholism a little bit and the conversation is going pretty well, until Benji sees a text from Rahim and Victor admits he told Rahim about Benji’s alcoholism.

This is a pretty awful thing for Victor to have done. Because we almost never get Benji’s point-of-view, it doesn’t necessarily feel that way. We understand why Victor told Rahim and we know Rahim is trustworthy, but Benji doesn’t know any of that. And more than that, Victor knows (or should know) how important this is to Benji and how ashamed of it he is. And not even 24 hours after finding out, Victor’s already blabbed it to someone else. No wonder Benji tells him they need a break.

2x09 (Victor’s Day Off): Benji isn’t really in this episode, which is largely dedicated to building Rahim up as a plausible alternative love interest to Benji for the finale cliffhanger. We do see a short conversation when Benji calls Victor, where Benji presumably tells Victor that he misses him (Victor says I miss you too), but that Benji doesn’t want to rush back into anything and can’t go to the wedding with Victor.

2x10 (Close Your Eyes): Benji’s in two scenes in the finale, one with Isabel (a very rare Benji scene without Victor present), and one where he goes to and then quickly leaves the wedding when he sees Victor dancing with Rahim.

Arguably you could say Benji is being presumptuous by assuming something is going on between Victor and Rahim, but within minutes of Benji leaving, Rahim admitted he likes Victor and Victor told Felix he felt something, even if he wasn’t sure what.

Again, none of this is to claim Benji is perfect. Benji and Victor are two 16-year-olds who love each other a whole lot who haven’t learned to communicate well and lash out when they’re upset. Victor has just as much to work on as Benji and hopefully we’ll get the chance to see them work on themselves together in Season 3.

#love victor #benji campbell #venji #love victor spoilers #victor salazer #lv meta

[gleefulfan]

The moment I keep coming back to is in 2x07 outside the restaurant when Benji says:

It's just my own stuff. Look, can you . . . I'm sorry, okay. Can you just forgive me?

What strikes me in this moment is that Victor can't do what Benji asks here, and Victor is not someone who is slow to forgive or lacks compassion. He's one of the most forgiving and compassionate characters on the show. If any of his family members or Felix or Mia asked this of him, it's hard for me to imagine Victor not going along.

Now you can always chalk this up to the needs of the plot or bad writing, but I actually think this stems from a deeper dynamic. On Victor's side, we see that he's really a people pleaser, often putting the needs of others ahead of his own. He never has to do that with Benji. Benji is always the one willing to subsume his needs to Victor's, to do and say what Victor needs to be happy. That's obviously wonderful, but any dynamic can be too ingrained if it's all one-direction when it should be a two-way street. In this moment, Victor (kind, compassionate Victor) cannot understand that Benji is really hurt and embarrassed and needs Victor to subsume his (valid) concerns and put Benji's needs first. And I think it's because it had literally never happened in their relationship before.

And on Benji's side, it seems like he's really ingrained the idea that he shouldn't need or rely on anyone. Before 2x07 you never see Benji ask Victor for anything. Benji doesn't seem to have a particularly close relationship with his parents and the two things we see him get from his parents on his birthday (the pastry and the fancy dinner) are things that Benji doesn't even want. His relationship with Derek certainly wasn't based on Benji needing Derek and I'd bet both of them preferred it that way. I think particularly after the accident, Benji took on an attitude of "I'm going to live my life proudly and I don't need to rely on anyone to be able to do that."

So when Benji finally breaks and really, really needs Victor to put him first, Victor doesn't because he doesn't even know how to. It's so incongruous with the rest of their relationship that Victor just barrels right past it. And Benji (despite being partially responsible for Victor always relying on him) feels his resentment blow up at the failure of Victor to reciprocate.

You see an echo of this in their fight the next morning, when Benji (coming off a really traumatic 12 hours) really needs something positive from Victor and Victor just doesn't recognize it at all. And we've seen Victor be upset but still recognize other's needs before, but he doesn't think about that with Benji at all. Of course he thinks Benji will apologize to his mom, that's what the Benji he's known every other day before yesterday would have done. But Benji is in not position to be that person in that moment.

My hope is that in S3 (or a potential S4 if Venji spend most of S3 apart) is that Benji learns that it's okay to need Victor to be his rock sometimes and Victor learns that being a supportive boyfriend is just as important as opening up and relying on your boyfriend. This would obviously pair well with a Benji relapse storyline (hint hint writers).

#venji #benji campbell #love victor #victor salazer #love victor spoilers #god am i going to have to create a meta tag what have i become #lv meta

[gleefulfan]

In Defense of Benji Pt. 1/2

I’ve seen a bunch of complaints about how awful or OOC Benji was in the second half of Love, Victor S2. I think that’s pretty unfair and can at least partially be chalked up to the lack of Benji’s POV throughout the season. I’m going to go through episode by episode to show where Benji’s coming from and why he does what he does. This isn’t to say Benji was perfect or that Victor is in the wrong. They both made mistakes and failed to communicate. But demonizing Benji is just not in line with what happened. (Spoilers for all of S2 of Love, Victor below)

2x01-2x04: I’m not going to cover these in detail because any conflicts between Victor and Benji early on don’t amount to much and are pretty quickly resolved. 

2x05 (Gay Gay): Benji and his bandmates make some nasty comments about jocks in front of Victor. Specifically Benji says “Victor’s in the early stages of jock recovery, he just escaped the cult of cheap body spray and casual misogyny” and “Thank god, I don’t have to sit with the basketball girlfriends and do the whole Go Grizzlies dance.”

Benji pretty clearly messes up here, which can be traced back to the fact that he doesn’t understand that Victor does genuinely love playing basketball. Once he realizes that, he goes to Victor’s first game, apologizes and does the Go Grizzlies dance with the basketball girlfriends, and Victor and Benji are good again.

2x06 (Sincerely, Rahim): In the beginning Benji commiserates with Victor about his mom and talks about mentoring Rahim. When Victor calls him mid-episode and talks about how cool his mom was with Rahim, Benji is wary. Isabel has treated him terribly for months and it has to hurt to hear that she’s so much better with Rahim than she’s evernbeen with him. Then, at the end of the episode, Benji apologizes for not being supportive enough about Victor’s excitement about his mom, does it again, and then apologizes again.

What I think is missing here is Benji expressing how hard it’s been for him to watch Victor go through this with his mom for months or for Benji to be repeatedly exposed to Isabel’s homophobia. Victor sees this as a conflict between him and his mom, but Benji is not just a supportive outsider. He has also been wronged by Isabel and has (at this point) received no apology from her and no real evidence that she’s going to change. Of course, he’s doubtful that this time she’s really changing. 

I’ll also point out that Victor almost outs himself in front of Adrian on accident, but Isabel is able to cover it up.

2x07 (Table for Four): Benji’s parents secretly invite Victor to his birthday dinner where Victor finds out about Benji being in AA, which Benji is hugely embarrassed by. He later calls it “the part of my life that I hate.” This precipitates the worst fight the two have ever had. 

Benji is clearly deeply ashamed by being an alcoholic, which I think Victor sort of recognizes but doesn’t really get because Benji’s never talked to him about it. Victor wants to know why Benji didn't share this really important part of his life with him and Benji asks him to just let it go. I’ll point out that Victor has repeatedly asked Benji to let things go (about his mom, about coming out to the school) while this is the first time we ever see Benji ask the same in return. 

Victor doesn’t, and then Benji blows up at him and says some really awful things. Like I said at the beginning, I’m not making Benji out to be flawless. Throwing Victor’s early coming out experiences and his mom in his face is really shitty. And it’s clear that if Benji weren’t really embarrassed and upset he wouldn’t say those things. At the same time, he’s not . . . wrong. He has by and large been patient and understanding during a difficult time in Victor’s life. And all Benji is asking for is that on his birthday after being unwillingly outed as an alcoholic to his boyfriend is for Victor not to push him on it and Victor does anyway.

Later that night we get a rare moment of Benji POV, through Felix oddly enough, when Felix tells Victor how hard it’s been to see him struggle with his mom. Victor then texts Benji off-screen and asks him to come over. They make up, start kissing, and Victor suggests they go to his room. Note, Benji knows that Isabel isn’t there but he would have no idea if Pilar and Adrian were there or at their dad’s or somewhere else. Victor is the one who knows Adrian is in the next room.

Part 2 now live here!

#love victor #victor salazer #venji #benji #benji campbell #love victor spoilers #lv meta

[gleefulfan]

If Venji is separated for most of next season and Victor and Rahim to give it a go, my question is, how is this triangle setup going to differ from s1? Sure, we knew that Mia and Victor could not ultimately end up together, but both Victor and Benji spent all of s1 with other people and kept sharing moments here and there while they slowly figured out who they really wanted. That's the best case scenario I see for them in s3 too. If Victor spends most of s3 in a relationship with someone else only to realize that isn't what he wants, again, how are we further along in his journey? When exactly is he fighting for the relationship he does want? He strung Mia along to some extent in s1, and doing that to another person doesn't necessarily feel like progress.

First off, let me just say that I personally would much prefer to see Victor and Benji work through their problems together in S3 rather than them spend most of it separated. But the reality is that the writers are probably looking for the show to go something like 4-6 seasons (assuming it continues to do well). And most romantic teen dramas just aren't going to leave their central couple together for four straight seasons, so we might as well get the season-long separation out of the now when it makes some sense. Then ideally we get a really good reunion at the end of S3 and the relationship is cemented for the rest of the show. And I wouldn't expect Victor/Rahim to be a 10 episode arc like Victor/Mia was in S1, I'd expected something like:

3x1 Benji and Victor talk, Benji turns him down, tell him if he feels something for Rahim he should explore it, Victor shows up at Rahim's door at the end of the episode.

3x2 - 3x5 Victor and Rahim date, it's good at first but then problems arise and Victor's not so sure.

3x6 Victor figures out he really wants to be with Benji, breaks up with Rahim

3x7 Victor goes to try and convince Benji but OBSTACLE arises (Benji's on a date, or drunk, or someone else's plot interrupts)

3x8 Victor tells Benji how he feels, Benji's unsure, Victor says he's not giving up

3x9 Something plotty goes on and Benji and Victor passionately kiss at the end of the episode

3x10 They have steamy make-up sex, a big talk, and decide to get back together.

Having set through some terribly executed love triangles over the years, I would be thrilled if S3 went anything like this.

Even more under the cut about they can grow in a season like this b/c I can't shut up

Now, from a more narrative perspective, choosing to date someone initially and choosing to go back to someone are very different things. I think a big part of why Rahim threw Victor for such a loop is that Victor had never been seriously attracted to a boy other than Benji - and by seriously attracted I don't mean "that guy is hot" but "We hung out and we got along and I know you're gay and you know I'm gay and I kinda want to kiss you." And so of course Victor felt something when that happened for only the second time ever.

What Victor can learn from a S3 away from Benji is the he can stand on his own two feet as a gay man, that if Benji wasn't in his life he could date other boys and even be happy with someone else. And having experienced that, having seen that he could have it with someone else, Victor can go to Benji and say "I could have someone else, but I don't want anyone else, I want you. And it's not because you were the first boy I liked and it's not because you helped me out of the closet, but because you're it for me."

As for Benji, I don't think he's ever been single as a young man. As best as I can finagle the Benji timeline and going with my "he turned 17" theory, he started dating Derek when he was 15, closeted and an alcoholic. He dated Derek through the accident, coming out, and getting sober (which like good for Derek I guess and maybe explains why Benji stuck with him so long) and then immediately moved from Derek to Victor. It wouldn't hurt for Benji to also see that he can stand on his own two feet as a single gay man.

And more importantly for Benji, I'd like to see Victor chase him, prove himself after some of the mistakes of S2. I want to see them almost kiss in the storeroom because the sexual tension is so heavy and then Benji pull away at the last moment because he's not sure if he's ready. I want to see Victor tell Benji he'll wait for Benji, but he's not going to give up on them.

As much as this isn't my ideal choice (and I find the cliffhanger aspect extremely frustrating), I think there's really good storytelling opportunity here, if they get it right. I also have thoughts about how Isabel might fit into this storyline but I HAVE to go to bed so maybe tomorrow.

#love victor #venji #benji campbell #victor salazer #love victor spoilers #lv meta #I'm sorry this is SO long I don't know what's happening I haven't written meta in like 8 years and it's all coming out not #now*

[gleefulfan]

Also, I want to add that, because of Isabel, Benji constantly relives his traumas: his father taking him to a strip club, for instance, and the school being low-key homophobic, and, before his coming out, him drinking to cope and the car incident. He is snappy towards the end, and the main issue within the relationship is the lack of communication, but as he said, their problems are too big for two teenagers. They might make mistakes in the process.

Yeah looking back at S1, Benji at that point is very comfortable being out and doesn't really interact regularly with anyone who hasn't gotten comfortable it. Interacting with Isabel in S2 (and seeing Victor interact with her) is big step backward for him to when he and his family were struggling with it. That's not easy to deal with.

Plus Victor (and the audience) gets to see the conflict within his mom, sees the one step forward, one step back process as the season goes on, but Benji only ever sees the bad stuff from Isabel until the finale.

It makes sense that communication would be a big issue in what is Victor's first real relationship and Benji first healthy one (given what we saw of Derek/Benji). They have to learn how to do it, I just hope we get to see that at some point.

#love victor spoilers #venji #benji campbell #love victor #victor salazer #lv meta

[gleefulfan]

I loved your breakdown of the scene outside the restaurant because I had some really similar thoughts. With everyone saying Benji was a toxic boyfriend I started wondering what they did for each other/ what they have in common and I realized Victor never really supports or helps Benji with anything the whole season. And like you said sometimes that’s how a period in a relationship can go where clearly he’s going through a really rough time in his family but I can’t really figure out what Benji’s getting out of the relationship. The one time he asks for support Victor straight up says no which is wild. But looking into it honestly I’m not sure what Victor and Benji have in common other than they’re both gay and romantic even Victor and Rahim don’t have much in common—they’re gay romantic and POC but in both cases that’s not much. The two people who actually share interests are Rahim and Benji who both seem to love music and performing and don’t like sports. So either we just figured out what Victors taste is…or I just stumbled on a new crack ship/BROTP between Benji and Rahim

An important lesson about relationships is that shared values are a lot more important than shared interests. The fact that Victor likes basketball and Benji and Rahim like singing and performing are not particularly important in the grand scheme of things.

What we've seen is Benji and Victor do have a lot of shared values. Like you mentioned they're both romantics, monogamy seems important to both of them, they're both very hard-working (school, plus after-school job, plus basketball/band), they both seems like to like hanging out with a small group of friends rather than being really introverted or big partiers. They're both pretty emotional, intuitive people, they've very tactile, and I'm sure there's other stuff I'm missing.

In S1 they both say what they like about each other:

Victor: "He's too good a guy to walk away from. He's thoughtful and sweet and patient. My point is, Benji is the best."

Benji: "I want to be with someone who doesn't make me feel anxious all the time. Someone who makes me feel like I can just be myself and that's enough."

Plus they have a very active and fulfilling sex life which is no small thing.

We honestly don't know that much about Rahim's values just because we haven't known him a very long time. I could paint a negative picture if I wanted to (regularly skipping school, moving in on a new friend who's having problems with their boyfriend) but I don't think that's what they're going for so we need to see more of him in S3.

Tangentially, I would actually be really interested in seeing a Benji/Rahim scene next season because I can't imagine Benji is his biggest fan at this moment.

#love victor #benji campbell #venji #victor salazer #love victor spoilers #lv meta