#rtd's doctors get recognized as THE LAST OF THE TIME LORDS

[roxannepolice]

#sotto voce ranting to polish paintings time! #this is #and who's above me? #by kazimierz mikulski #and i think even many poles aren't aware of the fact that we had people painiting surreal cats and rhinos too so fyi #and i'm not even particularly pissed but searching for this took me half an hour so now i have to do sth with it sunken costs and all #anyway a post about doctor who working best when they're a a regular dude obv resulted in a new battle in the war of the three showrunners #as to which was the biggest offender #or rather first the consensus ttc was dumb seems to hold strong #and i don't even want to wager in but there's an argument against rtd that i really don't like #because yes his doctors are oncoming storms and timelords victorious but when it comes to veing universally recognised as THE DOCTOR #then no this is moffat's #rtd's doctors get recognized as THE LAST OF THE TIME LORDS #and feel how you wish about destruction of gallifrey 1.0 but that's DOESN'T comtradict the doctor being generally a fail as a timelord #i mean imagine of the doctor was a unicorn ok? if you really like or fear unicorns or want unicorn hair for your spells and there's only 1 #you take what you can #and that doesn't change the fact that the unicorn is lame on two legs kinda bald white as a snow by the end of march in a polluted city #and you have to take its word that a sorry bump on its forehead is in fact a horn #ranting so maybe i'll finally sleep

[sage-nebula]

Martha didn't get a Tennant Doctor because she didn't want a Tennant Doctor. Martha was the only one of RTD's companions who left the Doctor of her own volition, and only ever called him back on her own terms, when she had need of him.

Rose didn't leave the Doctor willingly. Rose was trapped in an alternate universe because it was either that or be stuck in a void with Daleks and Cybermen for the rest of time. And when she returned (primarily to warn the Doctor about the oncoming darkness caused by Davros but also because she wanted to be with him), she left with the Metacrisis Tenth Doctor and their own TARDIS because that was the only way to give her a satisfying ending from the viewpoint of the audience. (And even then, there are some fans who will tell you that nothing short of her being with the Time Lord Doctor in the prime reality is satisfying, but that just couldn't happen for reasons outside the narrative story.)

Donna didn't leave the Doctor willingly. Donna absorbed all of the intelligence of a Time Lord into her human brain, and this was going to kill her. She had to have her memory erased and be kept away from anything alien for presumably forever or else the knowledge would return and literally kill her. Donna begged the Doctor not to wipe her memory anyway, because she would rather have died than give up that life. Just like Rose, Donna had planned on staying with the Doctor for the rest of her life.

This was not the case for Martha. Setting aside the fact that Martha was treated like garbage for the duration of her season from a writing standpoint, by the end of season three Martha has realized two things: 1.) that she is goddamn brilliant and never deserved to feel like she was second best, and 2.) that she doesn't want the Doctor anymore. Unlike Rose, Donna, and Captain Jack, Martha leaves the TARDIS of her own free will, to pursue her own life and career outside the Doctor. Even Sarah-Jane says in "School Reunion" that she waited for the Doctor to come back for her; she didn't want to leave, not permanently! But Martha did. She chose to step away. The only other companion to have done this during RTD's run is Mickey, so I guess Martha wasn't the only one; still, she's the only one of the primary companions, the three women, to want to leave. She made that choice herself.

Now, does that mean everything about Martha's ending was perfect? No. As much as the "Smith and Jones" wordplay of her ending with Mickey is amusing (get it, like her first episode), it makes no sense when you consider that she was engaged when she returned in season four, and yet we never hear of that fiance again. I mean, I guess it's fine since it's not like we ever saw him? But what happened there? Why was no thought given to Martha's story there? What was she doing with Mickey in an active war zone? Why no mention of her in these three specials even though, last we heard of her, she was working with UNIT in a really important position? I like Mel well enough, but why couldn't Martha have been there instead? Especially since Martha and Donna had a preexisting friendship, and would have been delighted to see each other again?

With that said though, she doesn't need a Tennant Doctor. She didn't want a Tennant Doctor. Frankly, Tennant's Doctor doesn't deserve her with the way he acted ("Rose would know" right to her face, like -- dude, I get it, you're grieving, but that's fucking rude and Rose would NOT approve you using her memory to make another woman feel bad about herself). Martha's character arc was about recognizing her own brilliance and her own worth; standing on her own two feet as a PROPER doctor, Doctor Martha Jones, walking the earth and saving the world without a TARDIS or Torchwood or a Time Lord brain. Just her own fucking determination and brilliance.

Rose and Donna got Tennant Doctors because that was the way to make their final send-offs satisfying. Rose and a Tennant Doctor got to be in love and happy together in a parallel world, which is fitting considering that they were in love and never wanted to leave each other. Donna and a Tennant Doctor get to be besties and happy together in this reality, so that RTD has a convenient excuse to pull Tennant back into a story if he ever wants to again (since it'd be hard to explain why Tentoo came over, versus having Fourteen right there) . . . but also because, like Rose, Donna never wanted to leave the Doctor, she wanted to be with him forever.

But Martha didn't want that. Martha left on her own accord. She left with a smile on her face and her cell phone on the TARDIS console, so that when she said "here boy!" the Doctor would listen. She left on her terms, with him at her call, only there when she has use for him.

And honestly? Good for her.

#like it was a fucking waste that we didn't see Martha at all in these specials #or even get a mention of her but like #she wouldn't WANT a Tennant Doctor. she was the only one of the 3 who left willingly! #(and honestly who can blame her like fr . . . the shit she put up with bc of him) #(the shit in the Family of Blood episodes gave her just cause to beat his ass into next week honestly) #(she hugs him at the end but honestly she should have beat his ass. just started swinging) #(how dare he do that to her? honestly?? i'm not talking about the love plot bit bc while that was ugh it's like #small potatoes to making her as a Black woman have to WORK IN SERVITUDE TO WHITE PEOPLE #and like the scene where he grabs her arm and throws her from the room? BITCH????? #GOD i'm mad again just THINKING about it #she should have beat his ass so hard he regenerated right then and there. AGH. #ANYWAY #Martha Jones deserved better but getting a Tennant Doctor is not better #not for her. it would be like a punishment honestly #she walked away from him and then you put his sad boy ass back on her doorstep?? hello??? no thank you #doctor who #martha jones #dw spoilers #this probably sounds like I hate Tennant's Doctor but I don't #I just hate how a lot of season 3 was written wrt how Martha was treated #like Martha having very legitimate concerns in the Shakespeare episode about being a Black woman in that time period #and Ten mocks her for being concerned like ??? #ARGGGHGHHGHGHGHG #ABOUT TO FLING MYSELF INTO THE TV TO BEAT HIS ASS MYSELF ISTFG #A N Y W A Y

[whoslaurapalmer]

lulu watches doctor who; the beast below, victory of the daleks, the time of angels/flesh and stone ⭐

-the beast below has me VERY intrigued actually. a lot going on in there 

-smilers are very unsettling. very good love them 

-the doctor, in general: don't wander off i say this all the time eleven: hey amy go talk to that kid over there and then wander off after her 

-eleven: i never get involved in the affairs of other peoples or planets  joel, crow, and tom servo, still living rent-free in my head, coming back strong: liar! liar! liar!  -oh but that's so great though. technically, yes, he's not supposed to, realistically, he 100% does bc how could he not, but ALSO how long ago was the waters of mars, really?? of course eleven would want to be careful about it. should've leaned into that!!!!!! would've been tasty  -ESPECIALLY with "because if they see a wounded little cub or something, they can't save it, they've just go to keep filming and let it die." -will a day go by that i don't call something completely non-edible and in fact non-tangible tasty? nope! drives my mom crazy!!!! (me, in the car, about like a tree or something: oh that's tasty my mom: lulu what the hell) 

-i wish amy had had a chance to change out of her nightgown 

-"did he do the thing?" i'm  -look some part of me is like "yeah that's a sentence i like. good ol varrick" and part of me is like "did i just hear those words with my literal actual ears. those are words someone said completely seriously, without irony, on live action tv"  -i'm letting it go 

-honestly before liz was revealed the second i saw her from behind i was like "is that river" bc i would not have been surprised if it was.  -although even after finding out she was Liz Ten. is she not still a river. tall impressive mysterious woman who can twirl guns and knows about the doctor 

-moffat likes the doctor to have a reputation  -like in rtd's seasons almost no one he came in contact with really knew who the doctor was? (with the exception of clive, but clive doesn't really meet nine, and elton and jabe) but liz ten Knows Of The Doctor  (-and even everyone recognizing him from amy's childhood description!!) -and he has ten intimidate the vashta nerada by asking them to look him up and see what he's done  -and the doctor DOES have a reputation, i've said before, he DOES have this trail of damage behind him 

-martha asking ten about gallifrey and ten being evasive (even after he admits he lied) vs amy asking eleven about the time lords and him SAYING WORDS ABOUT IT  -like he actually legitimately wants to try and talk about it  -"no. there were, but there aren't. just me now. long story. it was a bad day. bad stuff happened. and you know what? i'd love to forget it all, every last bit of it, but i don't. not ever." -BAD STUFF HAPPENED  -that's glorious. oh, eleven.  -ten never forgot about the time war but ten also tried very hard (and failed!!) to pretend he could. i LOVE eleven going "i'd love to forget it all, every last bit of it, but i don't, not ever." -very intrigued about how we get to the idea of "the man who forgets" from here. very intrigued. because it's on the tip of his tongue here  -in all honesty i have no problem with "the man who forgets" for the record. but i'm still keeping an eye on this character arc THIS IS ONLY THE SECOND EPISODE  -"because this is what i do, every time, every day, every second. this. hold tight. we're bringing down the government." because the doctor won't forget so that the doctor can do BETTER, this is the action he wants to be identified with, always  -...but also he was bringing down the government of gallifrey, really  

(-ahahahahaha re: "just me" not only the time war though but the master as well) (don't think i've forgotten about simm!master!! because i have NOT) 

-there IS a LOT of plot repetition in doctor who -- every episode is either 'small end of a world' or 'LARGE STAKES END OF THE WORLD' and that's fine, like. what else can you do. etc etc, jessica fletcher will find a murder, it's par for the course for the general makeup of the show  -star whale just hit some planet of the ood vibes (giant brain, sad screaming, "for the rest of their lives. oh, the songs they'll write."), and pompeii (death vs death choice; donna making sure the doctor isn't alone in it vs amy realizing it was not death vs death)

-moffat. were you already thinking about day of the doctor here. were you already planning. were you already thinking  -i know i'm thinking 

-amy gets a sherlock-esque scan as well????  -well less of a scan and more of a. repeating of the relevant dialogue from the last half hour so far but 

-boy. lots of. “choice” in this episode. almost as if we are working our way towards an episode named “amy’s choice” because i am viewing this from the vantage point of twelve years after the fact and having read all the episode titles 

-and then there's a crack at the end of the episode! 

-awwww eleven and amy's hug was very sweet and squishy and soft 

-return of the tardis phone!!!!! yessssss!!!!!!!  (-hey, does the doctor still have martha's phone???? i know this will literally never, ever come up. but i am casually thinking about it) 

-oh yes dalek time. almost always a good time when the daleks show up because they bring out the absolute worst in the doctor and i love to see it 

-i do actually really like the skittles daleks. they look so tasty and chewy  -like if you bit down on one. you really would get the consistency of a skittle -i should buy some skittles.  -ANYWAY

-some dalek vibes get hit here, as well, a little   -as in nine's episode, clearly there are, daleks here, the daleks are never a surprise 

-not sure if i think amy is just being snarky amy (and quite frankly a little akin to donna, they have similar determination to get shit done, and snark) or if she's just MAKING THE DUMBEST MOVE IN THE WORLD by seeing the doctor go 'the daleks are a problem' and having her response be 'well I'M gonna go talk to it, nbd'  -amy. amy  -even putting aside that she doesn't remember the daleks bc of the cracks in time  -amy 

-that eleven's perception of being a human, of what is so inherently human above all else, is THE PAIN AND SUFFERING and THAT'S what's gonna get neat robot man to be a human, when it's actually and always has been LOVE -oh eleven. sweet bean -cause like. that's ten's experience. being born out of love and getting it taken away from him, feeling the most human of the regenerations 

-see i've been considering........how does eleven react to ten -is it 'i will do my best to not make the same mistakes ten did' or 'i'm going to take ten's major flaws and make them NOT FLAWS' -both are solid, and i think right now eleven has shades of both  -also wondering what i think eleven is born out of. my initial thought was loneliness but i've also seen self-loathing as a take and i like that too but i'm not ready to commit to anything yet 

-like, the "i am the doctor! and you are the daleks!"  -and this, too, is the way the world works!! the action the doctor takes!! the doctor vs the daleks, at all times, forever!!!!  -it is and it isn't a boast now. there is less confidence here. that's ten viciously holding on to his identity with "i can do anything!" and eleven trying to keep the same confidence he had in the eleventh hour 

-look it's not only that i love ten a great deal and i am still devoting brain space to him it's also that i am obsessed with how character arcs go because they are one of the major backbones of a story and where the doctor goes after ten's negative character development is something i care about deeply because i want to see how it matters going forward, how it echoes on eleven, what it makes of eleven and what it changes about his character progression  -for ten i was like, everything that happens is leading up to the waters of mars. end of time as well, but particularly waters of mars. for eleven i feel like everything is leading up to day of the doctor, and i just, gotta see how it plays out until then  -because i think day of the doctor should've been. very different. BUT gotta wait until i get there 

-eleven: the world doesn't need me. me: oh uh that's a big statement happening here eleven: the world's got winston spencer churchill. me: ah. i see. okay. me: that's still a statement 

-(to the tune of another one bites the dust) another crack in the wall ~  -considering we get actual crack in time discussion in the weeping angels two-parter, i don't know if i think seeing the cracks in the beast below and victory of the daleks was necessary  -like, i think it would read fine without them? i guess it reads fine with them as well bc the audience is aware they're coming, BUT bc there's only two episodes before we get 'time is escaping/changing' discussion, i also think it would have been just plain fine if flesh and stone was the first time since the eleventh hour that we saw it 

-i was more frightened by the weeping angels in the time of angels/flesh and stone, so that was nice!!! -and yes, river was less irritating. guess bc this is her second time showing up so i know what to expect out of her and she didn't take away from amy like i felt she did with donna 

-eleven: river hug amy because i'm busy me: HUG HER YOURSELF?????? 

-”i absolutely trust him.” “he’s not some kind of madman, then?” “........i absolutely trust him.” lived up to my expectations. that is hilarious 

-i like the angels getting a minor power upgrade, trying to turn amy into an angel and her having to keep her eyes closed was, the scariest part -but why do the angels actually kill in this episode?? the whole deal last time was that they 'kill you kindly' but this time they don't send anyone back in time, they just go around snapping necks and taking voices (-which WAS good unsettling but wouldn't it also have been scary to not have that insight into their thought process? to imply it more? that they do have that sense of planning and manipulation??)  -is it just because they've been dormant for so long, so they can't send anyone back? -godddd every time i see the weeping angels i always think 'why doesn't someone just like. idk smash the head off yeah??' and then i'm like. 'lulu. do you think you can achieve smashing a statue with like, a baseball bat. it's a goddamn statue.'

-what would happen if the ANGELS couldn't see? like. they can see in darkness because they know the humans in the same all-over darkness can't see them, right. but like if you blindfold an angel or something and they can't clock whether or not they're being looked at. what happens -cause that's different than them covering their eyes  -.......but also what would happen if you could just smash the head off 

-oh, very doomsday of you, with the gravity thing 

-ALSO yes the bookends of one of amy’s first stories is the weeping angels and she almost gets turned into one, her and rory’s last adventure is the weeping angels and they get sent back in time 

-ah......another pandorica mention

-i remember that eleven is the one river shoots (....sort of) and i am fine with this foreshadowing right now, sure why not 

-me: was i perhaps overestimating the romantic radar. does amy not in fact make a move on eleven. was i wrong  me, watching the end of flesh and stone: nope!!! i was not!!!!!!!!!!!!!! she does!!!!!!!  -yes i know this is partially because of “i nearly died. i was alone in the dark, and i nearly died.” but also. got no energy for this  -look i’m just gonna stop bitching for right now because i just can’t get the words together and i covered this last time really and i’m just gonna see how it works out here (cause, clearly it does, but, sigh) but know that i am still not happy and still don’t think it was necessary at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

#lulu talks about doctor who #my favorite part of this is me going 'couldn't you just. smash the weeping angels though. omg lulu with WHAT' #this is a little longer than i wanted but. i wanted them all in the same post bc time of angels/flesh and stone would've otherwise #just been a very short post

[xoxoemynn]

Running list of things making me emo in Doomsday

“This is the story of how I died” AGAIN RUDE

Rose Tyler getting the Daleks to stfu I LOVE MY BRAVE BADASS RAY OF SUNSHINE

The Doctor vowing to Jackie he’d save Rose and making her look at him...they still snark and banter but the second it’s serious he is Serious

The Doctor getting emotional when yelling at the Daleks that they’re in the humans’ homes and have their children, of course they’re going to fight goD his love and protectiveness of humanity

Rose refusing to designate the least important because they don’t work like that MY LOVE.

“The female’s heartbeat has increased.” “Yeah, tell me about it.” ajdskladjasklda stop making me laugh I am VERY STRESSED

“One Doctor. NOW you’re scared.” God her FAITH in the Doctor and she’s SO BRAVE.

“You are proof that emotions destroy you.” “Yeah I am” TEN = MY DOCTOR.

“You’re the bravest man I’ve ever met.” “What about the Doctor?” “Oh, all right. The bravest human.” EVERYBODY HAS COME SO FAR

ROSE MARION TYLER LAUGHING IN THE FACE OF THE DALEKS CAN YOU IMAGINE

Mickey blaming himself and the Doctor taking time to reassure him and even kissing his head god they have come so FAR the GROWTH

Jackie and Pete seeing each other the first time oh my heart (and then at “how very” rich Pete is Rose rolling her eyes and the Doctor looking positively delighted god THIS FAMILY

How excited Rose gets when the Doctor shares his plan just YES this is her DOCTOR and he’s going to save the day again and she’s a part of it!!

And then when the Doctor says Rose has to go to the other world and you realize too he was making an effort to be his usual energetic puppy self and smiling to give Rose one last happy exciting moment like they always had and oh no it’s getting worse.

And then Rose starts making it plain he expects her to go to the other world forever and he avoids eye contact and just says “yeah” he’s hurting so bad and is trying to remain indifferent because emotions destroy you and WHY AM I WATCHING THIS

“He does it alone, mum, but not anymore” cut to the Doctor’s face preparing to be alone once again and HELP

The look on the Doctor’s face when Rose says “I’ve made my choice a long time ago and I’m never going to leave you” just recognizing all she is ready to give up for him

“I did my duty for Queen and Country” oh godddd

The look of fear on the Doctor’s face when Rose has to let go and him shouting HOLD ONNNNNN and reaching for her and

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO = the Doctor, Rose, and me at this very moment oh god why are there tears why am I watching this willingly I was OUT

TAKE ME BACK WHY

The contrast between the Doctor’s silent stoicism and Rose hitting the wall sobbing, and then there’s that moment when she stops and they both press their faces against the wall like MY LOVE IS RIGHT THERE MAYBE I CAN HEAR THEM WE ARE SO CLOSE and they both just STAY oh GOD

When the Doctor walks away...alone...what the HELL I CAN’T BELIEVE I STARTED WATCHING THIS SHOW AGAIN I BLAME EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU WHO PEER PRESSURED ME INTO THIS

The Doomsday theme remains THE single most hauntingly beautiful piece of music ever written fight me Murray Gold

Just the fact the Doctor kept trying to reach Rose....just imagine him alone in his TARDIS repeatedly saying her name, calling out to her

“I’m burning up a sun just to say goodbye” RTD WHAT THE FUCK WHAT DID I EVER DO TO YOU

Rose reaching out for him and him saying “no touch” THIS COUPLE WHO WOULD HUG JUST BECAUSE ONE OF THEM STUBBED A TOE, WHO HELD HANDS TO WALK ACROSS THE STREET, AND THEY CAN’T TOUCH

The Doctor actually thinking Rose might be pregnant um please sir do you see her she only loves you

That fond smile on the Doctor’s face -- he loves her so much he’s so PROUD of her, this utterly ordinary girl he found who is capable of extraordinary things, who is BRAVE and COMPASSIONATE and brought him so much JOY he never thought he’d see again...he was literally born out of his love for her and now they only have two minutes to say goodbye forever. “Rose Tyler, defender of the earth.” GOD

The Doctor telling her she’s dead on her earth god that HURT

“Am I ever gonna see you again?” and him saying she can’t W H Y

Rose finally saying “I love you” and and and 

“And I suppose...if it’s my last chance to say it.....Rose Tyler....” and Rose SOBBING alone on the beach and cutting to the Doctor alone in his TARDIS gas in that blue green light with the single tear streaming down his face looking more broken and vulnerable than we’ve ever seen him in this body and OH GOD WHY DID I DO THIS and then he closes his eyes and THERE’S ANOTHER TEAR WHAT THE FUCK THIS IS AN ATTACK

Jackie and Rose running to each other and Jackie underSTANDS she came to love the Doctor too and she lost her husband for 20 years and she knows that grief

And then back to the Doctor wiping his hands down his face and the tears are gone and he still looks so DRAINED but he’s also now just resigned to traveling alone, the last of the Time Lords, and AGAIN CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO START THIS SHOW AGAIN AFTER FIVE YEARS AWAY I JUST WANT TO KNOW

#Doctor Who #Ten #Rose Tyler #Ten x Rose #DW rewatch #long post #listen I'm sorry this is so long but DEAR GOD ALMIGHTY #this is one of the handful of TV episodes ever that will always ALWAYS fuck me up #CLEARLY #I can recognize the brilliance of the story and all who worked on it but also WHAT THE HELL WHY PAINNNN