#no running away for a decade also makes wonders to a person's mental health wow

[pluckyredhead]

Daredevil 101: The King of Hell’s Kitchen

And we’re back! Last time, Matt beat the crap out of Fisk, unmasked in Josie’s, and declared himself the new Kingpin. We pick up a year later, with Ben explaining to an unseen companion at a diner just what’s been going on for the past twelve months. This is gonna be a long one, guys, sorry. (Bendis/Maleev, DD v2 #56-60.)

[Content Warning: There is a passing reference to Squirrel Hill, as in the Pittsburgh neighborhood - no connection to the recent tragedy there, as this comic is about 15 years old. I just didn’t want anyone blindsided.]

Basically, despite Matt unmasking in front of a room full of criminals, everyone is too terrified of him to actually admit that they saw his face, which means that he’s been able to keep up the double life game, even though fewer people than ever believe he’s not Daredevil anymore. This is all stuff Ben has gathered through hearsay, since Matt told him to stay away for his own protection and they haven’t spoken directly since before Josie’s.

Matt even had time to grow a horrible goatee!

It’s SO BAD, MATTHEW, WHY.

He also won his lawsuit against that one tabloid, meaning that currently, in the eyes of the court, Matt Murdock is not Daredevil. He donated the enormous amount of money he won to neighborhood charities. Please note this line: “See, Matt’s new girlfriend, Milla Donovan, actually works at the Hell’s Kitchen housing commission.” Just hold onto that for a minute.

Matt’s so popular, in fact, he’s approached to run for mayor!

“I am dizzy from you.” Wow, Franklin. WOW.

Not everyone is happy with Matt’s recent choices, though, as evidenced by an intervention from some of the local superheroes:

Do you think Luke got all the way to that fourth panel before realizing he was the only one here without an alliterative name and felt suddenly self-conscious? Do you think he had a split second of “Should I try to go by Carl Cage just for right now? Could I pull it off?”

Anyway one of the things I really love about Maleev’s art is the specificity of his...well, either photo referencing or just drawing from life. I could take you to the exact spot they’re standing in Bryant Park. (It’s a logical meeting place for this group, too, since it’s centrally located and walking distance from - but not inside - Hell’s Kitchen.)

Anyway, the others are pissed because Matt saying “Get out of Hell’s Kitchen!” to criminals just...made them do crime above 59th Street and below 34th, which was a pretty foregone conclusion. Matt’s unsympathetic:

Who wants to tell Matt that Hell’s Kitchen, Harlem, and the Village are all in Manhattan and his little plan here doesn’t make sense? Like, Matt and Luke covering neighborhoods while the other three, who can travel further and faster, cover the city as a whole, does make sense, but also “go do crime over there” doesn’t stop crime. As Peter points out, while wearing a very strange facial expression.

But Matt ignores the warnings, and ignores the growing tension in Hell’s Kitchen, and then, just a few days before Ben’s telling this story, he and Milla are attacked by like a hundred Yakuza assassins. He sends Milla running for safety...and hasn’t been seen since. And that’s all Ben knows.

And that’s when we see who he’s been talking to:

I want to clarify that Ben’s explanation of the past year of events has taken two full issues. That’s like five bucks worth of comics that is Ben mansplaining Milla’s own recent history to her, including explaining to her what her job is. They should have killed 616 Ben instead, Jesus.

Also, Milla and Matt are married! Hey, how about that?! She goes on to explain to a stunned Ben (who, I guess, didn’t ask her any questions before he started talking for two entire months holy shit Ben what is wrong with you) that they got married about four months ago, and we later learn that Milla’s the one who proposed. So she proposed to a man she’d known for eight months, who is...sort of a crime boss? An anti-crime boss? Anyway, keep that in your pocket for a bit.

(I’m sorry, I’m still so angry about these two issues. Anyone who wants to hear me rant about decompression, the ask box is open.)

Uh, Milla, that’s not a compliment. You want Matt to be in love with you as a human being, not the abstract concept of you as a conglomeration of eight million people and island real estate.

Anyway, Matt told Milla that if anything went wrong, she should contact Ben. She and Ben are both baffled by this, so Ben goes to see the actual person most likely to know where Matt is:

Take the money and just make shit up, Fogy! Anyway my poor beautiful tired boy has no idea where Matt is, and is also rather wounded that Matt had a contingency plan in place for Milla but a) not for Foggy and b) didn’t tell Foggy about it. Especially since the Yakuza are out in full force and Foggy has been sleeping in his office because he can’t safely leave it.

My heart. Foggy has never really gotten to grieve on page for Karen, given that he was in jail for her funeral, but he knew her as long as Matt did (technically slightly longer) and he loved her too.

Ben tracks Matt to the Night Nurse (who, remember, is not Claire Temple in the comics) and floats a new theory by him:

I’m very sorry Matt but i can’t take you seriously with that facial hair.

Matt stops crying long enough to deny it, but by now Ben knows he’s right:

I’m...pretty sure this is the first time someone has seriously said: “Matt, your behaviors are unhealthy and I’m concerned about your mental health.” And, like, itemized them (including explicitly saying that flaking on Foggy and leaving him in these crisis situations is cruel!). People have said “you’re crazy” or “you’re being a jerk” but it’s always been said in anger. This is uncompromising but compassionate. This is “a terrible thing happened to you and I know that you’re still in pain.” No wonder Matt cries.

And Matt’s not the only one who’s listening:

Wow, Foggy has a good memory. And the face of a man who is contextualizing the past few years of his life and doesn’t like what he sees.

(A+ for the frazzle of of hat hair, Maleev.)

Matt goes to a safehouse. Foggy goes...somewhere undetermined. A spa? Everyone gets naked:

No, seriously, I have no idea why everyone needed to be SO NAKED in this scene (although I’m not complaining). Anyway please enjoy FOGGY’S TATTOO (WHAT???) and also Matt calling him both “Franklin” and “good boy” in a single page.

If you want to, like, read the actual words and pay attention to plot, I GUESS, Matt promises to deal with the Yakuza situation. Foggy’s still not happy:

YES I HAD TO INCLUDE THIS DOUBLE PAGE SPREAD, IT’S IMPORTANT. Text if you can’t embiggen:

Matt: Are you breaking up with me?

Foggy: I don’t think you’ll let me.

Matt: I need you, Foggy. I’ll fix this. I’ll make it right.

Foggy: Yeah, okay. So just do what you have to do.

Matt: I need you to bring me something to wear.

Foggy: Something red?

Matt: It’s red?

Foggy: What?

Matt: I thought it was yellow.

Foggy: ...Are you serious?

Matt: No.

Foggy: That was pretty funny.

IT IS A VERY GOOD AND IMPORTANT EXCHANGE and it is only slightly marred by Milla draped in silent nakedness over Matt the whole time because...of reasons? Ugh.

Matt goes to get backup and finds himself being dragged for like the third time in 24 hours:

Haha! Pregnant women! So hysterical about being lied to by their friends and employers who they are risking their lives for! Hormones, fellas, amirite???! LOL.

(Seriously, fuck this shit.)

Anyway. Main Yakuza Dude Whose Name I Forget is still pretty confident about moving on Hell’s Kitchen now that Matt’s out of the picture:

Oh man, sorry about your life, Main Yakuza Dude!

“Are you guys sure you want me to do this pose? It feels more ‘boy band’ than ‘badass.’“

“Yeah, Luke, definitely!"

“Yeah? I don’t know, I kind of feel like...”

“No, dude, it works, it looks totally cool, I promise!”

They beat up the Yakuza. Meanwhile, Foggy joins Milla at the safehouse:

Why is Milla still in her underwear???????????????? #cancelmen

When Matt returns to the safehouse after defeating the Yakuza, Foggy is gone, and Milla is finally dressed...and very unhappy. She tells him what Foggy told her:

Here are the things that jump out at me about this page:

1. Milla says “this Karen Page person,” which implies that she has rarely or never heard Karen mentioned before. Considering that Matt (and Foggy!) knew Karen for, as Ben pointed out, almost all of his adult life, and that she was intrinsically tied not just to Matt (and Foggy!) but Daredevil and Nelson and Murdock, this is stunning. How do you spend a year with your wife and almost never mention someone you were intimately close to for at least a decade? I know Matt is secretive by nature, but this makes me think that Matt and Milla essentially never had any real or deep communication. Which, honestly, checks out.

2. We don’t see the conversation between Milla and Foggy. Theoretically, he could have said “LOLOLOL MATT NEVER LOVED YOU HE STILL LOVES MY DEAD FRIEND SUCK IT” but that seems...out of character, to say the least. I suspect, given how confused and distressed Milla is, that he said something more like “I think the reason Matt is acting like this is because he is still processing his trauma over the death of someone he loved very much.” Which shouldn’t be a surprise to Milla, considering that one of the very first things Matt told her was “Two women I loved have been murdered.” But apparently this is a great betrayal somehow??? Because:

And this is why I just can’t with Milla. So much of what doesn’t work with her character, like the thin personality and the helplessness and the fact that she’s IN HER UNDERWEAR ALL THE TIME FOR NO REASON, is because of sexist writing and drawing, and I’m not laying that at her feet. And I’ll be the first person to declare that Matt Murdock is a shitty boyfriend/partner and has been to literally every single woman he’s dated.

But the compassionate response to “the person I love is having a nervous breakdown because he lost someone he cared about” is not to scream “SHUT UP!!!” and accuse him of lying. I’m not married but I’m preeeeeetty sure the vows don’t include “I swear that I definitely never loved anyone else and if I did, I don’t love them anymore.” Matt broke no promises here (for once!) and, as I’ve said before, Milla went on two highly dangerous dates with Matt Murdock and then he declared himself Kingpin and then she proposed. She had all the evidence she needed that life with Matt is dangerous, bizarre, and full of ethical pitfalls and the ghosts of murdered girlfriends, and as an educated, intelligent adult woman in charge of her own business, she decided to sign up. This one is absolutely not on Matt and it pisses me off that it’s treated like it is.

Anyway. *breathes*

Next up: Black Widow returns!

#daredevil #daredevil 101

[divagonzo]

Many times I’ve seen comments about how the Harry Potter cast avoided the “child star curse” and I want your opinion on that because I don’t think those kids were being treated well and I always find it shocking how everyone thinks their childhoods in the spotlight were something magically wonderful. Also, I hate how people talk about child-stars gone wrong because the aim is always to mock or attack the kid instead of realizing their behavior is a consequence of trauma and abuse.

Mornin’ Nonnie. Wow. That’s a bucketful of questions this morning.

Lemme get a huge cuppa so I can put some coherent thought into this set of questions.

RE: The Child Star Curse…. you’ve hit on the enormous Pandora’s Box here with this topic. No lie there.

Triggering mentions are in the tags for those who blacklist and don’t want to read on such things on a Sunday morning.

I’m putting all of this under the cut since this got really, really long really fast.

How did the kids avoid it where so many got lost and lost their way growing into adulthood? If you notice (I will speak of Eyebrows separately because her situation is pretty different by comparison)…. most of the main kids had a terrific support net of family at home - who could be wise to keep their kids grounded (as in feet on the ground and not under discipline/punishment). Sure they all had some mis-steps - but then I’ve never known a teenager who hasn’t made a mistake or 10 while transitioning to adulthood.

Dan? Dan had a serious drinking problem ‘til he decided to sober up (and I really commend him for taking that enormous step. It’s hard as hell to choose at such a young age that you have an addictive personality and that you can’t moderate the drinking and it’s smarter/safer to do without. (And it’s much easier to walk away at the younger age than in your late 20′s  30s 40s more when more damage has been done.)

Rupert? If anyone had been the most grounded, I’d say it’s him. His parents are top bants there, with his siblings and friends keeping him from being too much of a git. (And also being so b* smart in investing his funds early into a property owner to have his wealth but also paying his taxes, too.)

Emma? I think her situation was more fishbowl than the others because of the growing objectification of her and also how rude, lude, and crass men were treating her (including the paparazzi). I also think that she took advantage of such for her benefit to try and tame it down, and while it was mostly on point, there were moments where it was painfully obvious that she was there primarily for the male gaze. O_O She did take advantage of her privilege, with the additional benefits, but considering how much she’s been under the spotlight and constant attention of media and more, she’s done pretty well. (I won’t get into the issue of tax avoidance from the Panama Papers since I disagree with the mindset that the uber-wealthy should pay out 90% to benefit everyone else when they are already shouldering much of the social support net for those who need the assistance)

As for Tom and Bonnie and Evanna and the others? I think they have done pretty darn well for avoiding the child star curse.

But I also think the biggest part of it has been that they weren’t necessarily in the California/Hollywood scene, where it’s pretty much a free-for-all with access to anything and everything you’d want to delve into - along with the really ugly dark side of the business. (Yes, I’m tip-toeing around that issue since it’s pretty nasty.)

But how they were treated? I’m sure that the trappings of their situation made it more difficult, with constant media scrutiny and having so many people involved to have them appearing…. more appealing. While I’m sure for every one person there would be 100 who would give their toes and fingers to have that opportunity, it’s truly a Gilded Cage, of all of the pretty trappings and benefits - but with the enormous loss of privacy and anonymity.

Secondly, and more importantly, you also broach a huge issue, one that is constantly overlooked and also attracted the issue of victim-blaming. The ones who have gone off the rails, the kids who got lost along the way, were put under such scrutiny and given so much opportunity with little to no parental discipline to prevent problems, that, once again, media blame falls on the kids rather than the responsibility of the adults who should be there to support, encourage, and if need be, protect the kids.

I’m gonna say it right here in plain words: Being a teenager is Bloody Fucking hard. It’s triple hard if you are in such a position of making money hand over fist and people become blinded by the greed, attention, and privilege from what they have in those moments.  How many horror stories do you hear of where a young actor or actress gets into drugs/alcohol/pills and then crashes and burns spectacularly? For every one success story, there are dozens that crash and burn.

Is it a self-medicating of ones who aren’t necessarily neurotypical? Or is it the craving of the validation that comes from the attention and when not receiving it, needs the self-medication? Coping with trauma behind the scenes? Trauma before getting into acting and using the benefits to dull the pain?

I’ll bring up 3 in particular, just to make the point here.

One is Cory Haim. He was a young actor back in the 80s, in quite a few films, and was one of the teenage hearthrob pin-up boys. While he may have never been an A-lister as an adult (and reading up on his film credits, was probably B lister) he was an A-lister as a teenager. But there are plenty of speculation, especially by his friend Corey Feldman, of abuse when he was a teenager. (I won’t get into it because that’s rumor, speculation, and more) When he quit being cute his roles dried up to C-list roles, in straight to video shows, tv shows and voice-over work in video games.

From one of his interviews:

I was working on The Lost Boys (1987) when I smoked my first joint. But a year before that, I was starting to drink beer on the set of the film Lucas (1986). I lived in Los Angeles in the ‘80s, which was not the best place to be. I did cocaine for about a year and a half, then it led to crack. I started on the downers which were a hell of a lot better than the uppers because I was a nervous wreck. But one led to two, two led to four, four led to eight, until at the end it was about 85 a day - the doctors could not believe I was taking that much. And that was just the valium - I’m not talking about the other pills I went through. 

Did he get into drugs to dull the pain of trauma? Did he get into it out of boredom? We’ll never really know since he died back in 2010, penniless. His star burned out fast after he quit being cute/adorable/a money-maker. Was trauma involved? I sure think so (along with former child actor River Phoenix, who was also mentioned in the dark side of Hollywood, too.)

#2 is Justin Bieber. (Yes, I know. Bear with me.)

He got his break early on doing YT videos and got signed on - and took off like a rocket. But he (now that he’s older and hopefully a little wiser) now admits that he isn’t neurotypical and is pretty darn honest about his mental health struggles. (And yes, this also includes the few years before he was participating in bad boy behaviors, mistreating his girlfriends, etc.) Now? He found some stability in his life, able to admit he has problems and is getting help (and does have some support from his family including his new wife and her family.) (Let me also broach this here in plain language: Being Christian and having Grace doesn’t mean that you have zero problems from there on out. Far from it. It means that forgiveness is there with contrition. It means having a framework to work on being better.)

Will he still make mistakes? Oh sure. Being human means making mistakes. Wisdom is learning from them.

Lastly? Miley Cyrus. (Yes, I know. I’m mentioning those who are fun to laugh at. But these three are prime examples - but also with examples of coming through it all - or not.)

She’s been under the spotlight for decades, now. She’s in a show-business family. Godmother is Dolly “I love everyone and then some” Parton. And she’s one of the Disney Kids, including some spectacular failures on her part (and I’m lumping in her on/off again with her now-husband Liam.)

Did she lose her way for a while? I sure think so. But then the media spotlight x 100 made it harder, with every mistake under intense scrutiny. (This includes some questionable choices in a presentation of herself to the world. O_O)

Was she abused as one of the Disney Kids? Frankly? I think so. Disney isn’t all bright colors and silly shows and enormous paychecks. Rumours run amuck of behind the scenes abuse and mistreatment. Even having a famous father probably didn’t shield her completely from being mishandled by adults in her sphere of acknowledgment.

It’s the utter dark side of the business - that is an open opportunity for adults to take advantage of kids when they aren’t intensely protected and shielded from predator adults - straight and gay. There’s so many quiet mentions of adults abusing girls and boys in their charge - to disasterous results mostly.

But from 2 of the three here? They are examples of hope, where you can make mistakes, get lost along the way, feel the intense grip of imposter syndrome, of mediocre achievements and still succeed - and survive mistakes. They are a hope that whatever has happened, trauma and abuse wise, that you can survive it and, with serious professional help, get through it.

As I am prone to do, especially with those I mentor, is that I won’t tell you what to think - just that you do think. But if a mistake is made (or even a really p*ss poor choice made) I’ll help you survive it.

2 of the three had their family and support net available to help them survive the choices made, leading to wisdom on what not to do - how to cope/endure/survive what has happened.

These kids were probably victims of abuse and trauma, before and during their early acting careers. But 2 of the three are examples of not living a lifetime of being a victim - but a bad-fucking-ass survivor.

To those who have survived abuse and trauma as a child?

I’m gonna tell y’all who might be reading this, including my Kiddos:

It’s not your fault you were abused. Never. Full-stop.

It’s the responsibility of the ones who hurt you. They are to blame. And G_d as my witness I better never run into them. I have zero qualms burning a bitch for hurting a child.

#TW: #Anonymous #Dragon asks #Dragon listens #Dragon speaks #Dragon talks XXX #Dragon talks Child stars and abuse #tw: csa #tw: abuse #tw: grooming #tw: drug use mentioned #tw: childhood trauma

[dontcallmecarrie]

Fic Idea: Welcome To The Family

[In Which Natasha Is A Better Friend]

Warnings: Natasha Romanov’s background and POV [which…yeah, be careful because child soldiers are the least of it; plus a different take on what Graduation consists of], canon-typical violence, mental health issues [hi, Tony’s PTSD and Co.], loss of trust, probably OOC in some places, gradual canon divergence [wow isn’t that familiar], not Steve friendly, not Wanda friendly, closer-to-Skynet-than-is-comfortable!JARVIS, dubious morality, some pretty unhealthy things in general [childhoods, coping mechanisms, etc], mercy-killing [mentioned as a past thing, rather brief but in the context of Natasha’s Graduation]

Main changes here from canon: Natasha’s characterization [as in, it doesn’t change on the turn of a dime]. Her relationship with Bruce isn’t something I’ll delve into, because guess who can’t write romance to save my life? 

Also, JARVIS lives, because the day I acknowledge his death is pencilled in for never. And in this AU, Zola implied something a bit less specific than he did in canon.

Full thing’s under the cut because you guys know how I roll when it comes to fic ideas [read: very, very, very long outlines]. I’ll get to writing the fic on this sometime in the future, but in the meantime here you go. 

Natasha Romanov was a very dangerous person. In more ways than one.

It came with the ‘was raised as a living weapon during one of the most politically terse times in history’ package, after all, only a complete and utter fool would claim otherwise. And with it, came an appreciation for some things other people might take for granted, like the various applications of duct tape, the lifespan of granola bars, and even more fundamental things. Like trust. 

No, make that especially trust, and faith in humanity in general; just what kind of  childhood did these people have, to just believe someone’s word? To take a known assassin and just…extend their hand like that? [Weird. But strangely adorable, too, there was that.]

…Yeah, years later, and Clint Barton is still very baffling.

Point is, Natasha’s…unique background meant she had a perspective very few people ever got. The Stark Industries/Natalie Rushman mess meant she got a front-row seat as to the show Tony Stark put up. And that was what it was; a front, she knew. [Like knew like, after all.]

The entire fiasco had also been a case of “I know” and “you know I know” and “you know I know you know”, because Stark Industries apparently had a very unique stance on corporate espionage, and SHIELD hadn’t been very subtle in their attempts to get her in. 

The “Iron Man yes, Tony Stark not recommended” bit was a convoluted snarl of politics and dynamics and if Natasha hadn’t been born and raised in this, and if Tony hadn’t been a genius with Maria Stark and Peggy Carter as role models, he might’ve missed some of the nuances in what went unsaid. As it was, neither Fury nor Natasha missed the laughter in his voice, when he’d gotten to that bit.

 Natasha didn’t blame him; years in, and she still didn’t get why SHIELD loved melodrama so much.

But it wasn’t until the Avengers assembled, that her observations started paying off. Clint’s being compromised had been jarring, to be sure, and none of her training had ever covered huge green monsters, but Natasha had done her best to roll with it. 

If anything, Tony’s presence had been a comfort; yes, he was a pain in the ass, but he was familiar, an ally, and tended to come with a side of explosions and breakthroughs. The man was a force of nature, and Natasha sometimes wondered how things might’ve gone if he’d been born to anyone else, or anywhere else…then again, that sounded like nightmare fuel, never mind. [Don’t imagine him as a trainer in the Red Room, don’t imagine him as an enemy operative—no.]

Steve Rogers might have been an icon, might have been a bastion of principles and what it meant to be American—but Natasha was Russian, and she’d known to see past the propaganda to see the dazed and confused man who was still learning how to pick up the pieces when his world turned to ash.

He looked like he needed a friend. [Which…huh. There’s an idea.]

New York had been…interesting, to say the least. But it wasn’t until later, until Tony set about with cleanup after the invasion was over, that their friendship really kicked off. 

It helped, that they were very similar to each other; Clint might have noticed, if he wasn’t busy trying to piece himself back together, but as it was Tony tossed her a business card and sauntered away with Dr. Banner in tow, with a faux-careless “keep in touch if you want, Pepper wanted to talk to you about going out for drinks sometime” over his shoulder.

But Natasha had noticed the guarded look in his eyes, even if nobody else did, and she knew, without a word being said, that, despite all his trust issues [which she’d only glimpsed during her stint at SI, but had seen enough of to know it was a beast], this was Tony making an attempt to reach out.

Well…it’d be rude not to, after that, right?

And…Tony looked like he could use a friend, too. Not to knock Happy or Pepper, but this was something few could relate to, trying to atone for past sins [and failing miserably], plus the ‘hey we fought aliens together that one time, now what?’ thing. 

So, Natasha did what she could, to keep in touch. It was very off-again-on-again, because of missions and general work-related issues, but she managed. Things were rather rocky and awkward at first, but enough late-night phone calls thanks to time differences and downtime and boring stakeouts meant a very convoluted friendship soon bloomed. 

Which…Natasha couldn’t quite wrap her head around it, actually. The man had trust issues and one of the most full-blown cases of PTSD she’d ever seen, and yet he somehow mustered up the strength and kindness to reach out and befriend the person who literally stabbed him in the neck?! 

What even.

Tony Stark was added to Natasha’s “Weirdest Humans Ever Met But Would Gladly Murder For” list, because of that. It wasn’t very long, there were only three names, now, because Clint’s wife was just as baffling as he was.

Time passed, and while work at SHIELD meant that Natasha’s social life was 85% work-related [counting Clint and Steve], the other 15% had Natasha glued to her phone while keeping tabs on Tony and Pepper and JARVIS. [Which…she hadn’t known the AI was so sophisticated, before. Actually, she’d be surprised if anyone outside Tony’s inner circle knew, and treasured the show of trust like the rare thing it was.] 

Time passed, and Natasha was feeling pretty good about everything; work was going well, Steve seemed to be settling in and making good progress in moving on [now if only he’d let her help him get a date], Clint and his wife were expecting their first baby and had asked her to be a godmother, and though Tony was having a hard time, he looked like he had things well in hand [and she couldn’t exactly visit him while in the middle of an op in Vanuatu]. 

So, of course, Murphy’s Law struck with a vengeance. 

HYDRA hit with all the force of a sledgehammer, and the Winter Soldier had rattled Natasha badly. If she’d trusted her [SHIELD-issued, when’d she gotten so complacent, dammit?!] phone, she would’ve called Tony for help, but as it was she didn’t doubt someone was monitoring his communications, since doubtlessly someone up the chain had noticed his friendship with the Level 7 Special Agent. 

The reveal that the Nazis weren’t as gone as the world had hoped, that she’d been working for them, that her efforts to atone for all the red in her ledger had been for nothing, tasted like ash. It was a cold, bitter realization, and Natasha couldn’t imagine how Steve must be feeling. She, at least, had practice with this, after all: with realizing that everything and everyone she’d been surrounded with was an enemy agent, with the feeling of nothing was safe, not when empires crumbled and regimes turned to ash. 

Steve really hadn’t taken it well. 

In retrospect, she should’ve seen it coming, really. 

But Natasha carried on. Though…Zola had mentioned something, back at the bunker, and what he’d implied had left her feeling cold.

And…Tony needed to know. 

Natasha had heard him talking about his parents, once, when he’d been running on two carafes of coffee and not much else, mid-way through his 27-hour-long engineering binge, and the mention of how much of an ass Howard had been had stuck with her, nearly as much as how much he’d clearly cared for his mother. 

Natasha might not have have the kindest of childhoods [ha-understatement of the decade], but she did her best to be as supportive as possible, even if she went ‘that sounds fake but okay’ to what others claimed were normal childhoods [jury was still out in regards to Tony’s mentions of having built a bomb before puberty, though, no matter how relatable that experience was].

Steve must’ve told him, though, right? Because he might have been understandably hyperfocused on Bucky, there was no way he’d missed HYDRA’s hand in the death of Howard Stark. And though Steve and Tony might’ve had their differences, there was absolutely no way the man Natasha knew would keep something this huge from her other friend. 

Not when Steve’s searching for the Winter Soldier, not when Tony’s moving heaven and earth to clean up after them in DC. Not when the team started to regroup, and work together to take down every last vestige of HYDRA once and for all. Time passes, and things continue in this vein. 

Sokovia’s where the rose-tinted lenses came off.

Ultron caught everyone off-guard, really. Natasha had talked to Tony often enough to know he hadn’t been remotely close to interface, and while the Iron Legion was intimidating, she approved of its various applications. 

And yet the team tried to blame Tony. 

No, strike that, they did blame Tony, and that she hadn’t seen the cracks in the team before Thor nearly snapped his neck [because she’d seen that technique before, in the Red Room, and it had never been in a nonlethal application], she tasted bile in the back of her throat because how had she missed this?!

The Red Witch’s recruitment didn’t exactly help, either. Ignoring the dredging up of memories best left forgotten [Graduation and the mercy-killing of the only childhood friend she’d ever had because she wouldn’t stop screaming and wouldn’t have survived the Serum and remained sane], Natasha recognized the look in Wanda’s eyes. She saw it in the mirror, after all, and was intimately aware of her capabilities, of what it felt like to have nothing left to lose. 

Of how to use people. 

She didn’t get why Steve had recruited her, really; he already had a hard time just adjusting to life in general, why the hell did he invite a viper into the fold?

…again, it was one of those things that were embarrassingly obvious in retrospect.

It was no surprise Tony’d retired, really. Not when the only other friend besides her had flown the coop, not when everyone else had seen him being choked by an ally and hadn’t batted an eye, not when nobody else seemed to care that JARVIS had nearly died. 

But at least they were still friends. 

Even if Wanda threw a contemptuous look her way whenever Natasha’s phone started to play AC/DC [because Tony’s sense of humor knew no bounds and Natasha didn’t have the heart to say no when he’d offered to program in a few ringtones], or Steve frowned when she laughed at a Snapchat from Tony showcasing DUM-E’s latest attempt at a smoothie. [Sure, it was when she should’ve been sparring, but he’d been running late and she’d been bored.]

It’s not until after he retired, that it came up. 

In her defense, Natasha had been busy with cleanup, since depressingly few STRIKE teams had actually been SHIELD rather than HYDRA and she’d been one of the only agents with enough clearance to access the more sensitive areas. 

In one life, Natasha never told Tony, had trusted in Steve’s judgement and called it a day. 

In this life, however, Natasha was a far better friend.

She’d referred to it in passing, because it’d been months since HYDRA’s fall and weeks since Sokovia and cleanup was still being a bitch for both, when she’d caught the look of confusion on his face.

“What?” He’d asked, and Natasha felt ice at the pit of her stomach. 

“Steve didn’t tell you?” She asked, and abruptly realized she didn’t know Captain America nearly as well as she’d though, and that—oh shit. “You don’t know.”

“Know what?” But there was a look of growing suspicion, and…

“You might want to sit down for this, Tony. And call Pepper and James, too. Hey, JARVIS? Gear up, too.” 

Natasha didn’t know how to do this. [Why couldn’t she have had to fight a death squad with her bare hands instead? It was so much easier!] 

But Tony was her friend. He trusted her, and she refused to betray that trust again. 

“Tell me what.”

In this life, Natasha told Tony, of HYDRA’s involvement in murdering his parents.

Tony didn’t take it well, of course. 

[Perfectly understandable, what with having nearly made his peace with Howard’s alcoholism having been what killed his mother.]

Natasha ended up being used as a impromptu teddy bear, while JARVIS immediately made arrangement for Pepper and James’ arrival, because Tony’d need all the support he could get. Even though this was way, way out of her comfort zone, and she didn’t know what the hell one did when a friend started crying, she did what she could to support him, and quietly cursed Steve Rogers and Zola to hell and back for putting her in this situation.

And Tony…Tony lost all respect for Captain America, that day. 

“You know, he said something about teammates not telling him things?” He managed to get out, after the initial shock wore off. [Pepper and Natasha shared a dark look, at that.] “Looks like he didn’t have much room to talk, after all.”

It was no coincidence, that the Compound’s funding got cut, after that. Or that Natasha’s gear was top-of-the-line while everyone else’s barely got the basics of maintenance, afterwards. Or that team dynamics weren’t so much frayed at the seams so much as ‘even existing in the first place’, because Vision had the same sense of humor as JARVIS and Steve seemed to find that off-putting for some reason, and Natasha never let Wanda at her back.

There’s a few different ways this could go from here, of course. 

Maybe Civil War doesn’t even happen, because Tony’s not on the back foot when it comes to all the hurdles life’s throwing at him, not with his friends at his side and JARVIS in his ear. 

Maybe Civil War does happen, except Natasha never lets the super soldier duo go, takes them down instead, and Siberia never happens, and reality and consequences ensue.

If, somehow, someway, Siberia were to happen, however, it wouldn’t go down like it did in canon.

Instead, Tony, having been able to wrap his mind around the ‘HYDRA killed my parents’ reveal with enough time and support to be able to cry about something that happened half a lifetime ago and ever-so-slowly start to heal from the still-raw wounds, would take it differently. 

Here, Tony would still be horrified and shocked by the video of what happened. But here, Tony’s not on the verge of breaking down, isn’t scrambling for a moment of peace, isn’t desperate for a peaceful resolution. Tony’s doing this in memoriam of the man his father had spent decades and millions on, and…

Here, Tony’s furious.

But, having had the warning from Natasha, he takes it differently. The video’s still shocking, of course, and he’s fighting down nausea as he’s hearing his mother’s screams and his father’s desperation, but…here, Tony’s not on the verge of losing it when he turns to Steve.

“You knew.” But here, it’s not tinged with shock, isn’t colored by the hurt of fresh betrayal. Instead, it’s accusatory, it’s wrathful and Tony knew Steve was an ass but this was beyond the pale. 

In one life, Tony might’ve snapped, and lunged after the man who he’d just seen kill his mother. In this life, however, it’s the other supersoldier who gets decked with all the force of a pissed-off Iron Man.

“Son of a bitch, you knew it was him.”

Here, there’s no hurt “He was my friend/So was I”; instead, this might’ve been how it went down:

“He was my friend.”

“And she was my mother.”

But either way, Tony’s not losing it, here. Or, at least, not the way he did in canon. Because, here, JARVIS is a comforting voice in his ear, but he’s also support, and the Iron Legion is at hand to help apprehend these criminals with minimal fuss, so even if he’s repulsed by just how much of a hypocrite Steve turned out to be, he’s not alone in the bunker.

And afterwards, Tony’s not alone either. 

Here, it’s a new future, a new day, and with Pepper, James, Natasha, and JARVIS at his side, Tony’s helping forge a new tomorrow.

Here, Thanos arrives to an Earth with a team of Avengers who have been preparing for his arrival for years, and with all the efficiency that bone-deep trust engenders. 

…there’s so much more I could do with it, of course. 

I haven’t even touched on the shenanigans and puns that ensue when Natasha hears about their newest recruit, meanwhile Spiderman’s leaning back wide-eyed as Natasha takes down a room in less than a minute and tosses a casual “I’ll teach you how, spiders need to stick together” over her shoulder. 

Stephen Strange’s low-key terrified by the women Tony’s surrounded himself with [and resolves to either keep Christine and Pepper as far away as possible, or simply lay low for when they inevitably take over the world through sheer competence], and Hope Pym’s very happy to have someone capable of keeping up with her on the sparring mats. 

James Rhodes, meanwhile, is  sitting back with Vision and watching these dorks and wondering what the hell went wrong with his life choices to lead to movie nights with assassins and sorcerers and teenagers who thought “the new Star Trek movies were awesome” [and thus sparking the movie marathon to teach him otherwise].

Tony, of course, is very relieved to have people he can trust to have his back, and so proceeds along with his plans to take over safeguard the Earth. [Then again, the Accidental World Domination fic’s already in the works, so maybe not.]

Another thing I changed: the Red Room’s Graduation process. 

Not sure what canon’s involves, but here it features their version of the Super Soldier Serum. It’s not graceful, it’s not elegant, it’s pure brute force and painful and only the strongest survive the first 12 hours [and renders the person sterile, because of the drastic changes]. 

The low survival rate is only part of why it’s considered graduation; the other part’s killing the other girls who got dosed with the Red Room Serum, because most of them are halfway out of their minds with agony [and also because the Red Room’s Serum’s effect on sanity is really hit-and-miss, too].

There’s more to this, but cutting it short for now because this is supposed to be the outline only and at this rate the fic’s only going to be a repost of this.

Hammered this out because I’ve got a lot of fix-it/break-it-differently ideas on the brain, and got sick of Natasha’s fluctuating characterization. It also led to my different take on Graduation, because wanting to have kids isn’t exactly every female’s life goals, [hated that scene…I could go on for hours, I s2g] and to consider oneself a monster implies something that goes a lot deeper than that.

#fic idea #fic ideas #orignal outline #now the time is here for iron man to spread fear #if you're going to be evil might as well do it right #welcome to the family #naught rambles

[positivepsychologyinterventions]

Podcast | Inpatient Mental Hospital Stay (Part 1 of 2)



Have you ever wondered what it’s like to be an inpatient in a psych ward? In this two-part series, we go into detail about Gabe’s inpatient stay starting with the events that lead him to be an inpatient, and what his days were like after he was admitted. We talk about common misconceptions that you may have around what happens while you’re admitted, what your day looks like and who you’d spend time with.

(Transcript Available Below)

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About The Not Crazy Podcast Hosts

Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and speaker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book, Mental Illness is an Asshole and other Observations, available from Amazon; signed copies are also available directly from Gabe Howard. To learn more, please visit his website, gabehoward.com.

        Jackie Zimmerman has been in the patient advocacy game for over a decade and has established herself as an authority on chronic illness, patient-centric healthcare, and patient community building. She lives with multiple sclerosis, ulcerative colitis, and depression.

You can find her online at JackieZimmerman.co, Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn.

    Computer Generated Transcript for ‘Inpatient Mental Hospital’ Episode

Editor’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thank you.

Announcer: You’re listening to Not Crazy, a Psych Central podcast. And here are your hosts, Jackie Zimmerman and Gabe Howard.

Jackie: Hello and welcome to Not Crazy. I am here in the house of my co-host, Gabe Howard, who is sitting across the table from me staring at me. It’s a little extra weird, but he also lives here in this house with bipolar.

Gabe: I think that is the longest introduction that I have ever received, and I am sitting here with my co-host, Jackie, who is sleeping in my house rent free, eating my food, not contributing in any way and teaching my dog very bad habits. And she lives with major depressive disorder. Welcome, everyone.

Jackie: Hello. Welcome to Gabe’s house. It’s like you’re here with us.

Gabe: It is really cool. And it’s the first time that we’ve been able to record in person. Little behind the scenes. A lot of this stuff is done on an Internet studio. It’s really good. We plan a lot of stuff via video chats and text messages and emails and late night flurries of inspiration. But it’s always good to be in person because the energy just flows and there’s always Diet Coke.

Jackie: Regular Coke, if you’re not Gabe.

Gabe: Diet Coke.

Jackie: Regular Coke.

Gabe: Diet Coke.

Jackie: Right. Regular Coke if. But regular because if you’re going to go to McDonald’s, which we do, and you’re going to get the regular.

Gabe: Side note, McDonald’s and Diet Coke, we are open for sponsorships and we would appreciate hearing from your people.

Jackie: So would appreciate that. Today we are talking about something that I feel like has a lot of mystery and is not very clear, kind of shrouded in silence, which is what it is like to be admitted inpatient in a psychiatric hospital. And Gabe has done that. So I’m going to ask him a bunch of questions about that.

Gabe: And I’m happy to answer these questions because what I didn’t know upon admission would have just been really, really helpful to know. And in addition to my own psychiatric admission, I’ve worked in psychiatric hospitals and I’ve interviewed people who were inpatient and I’ve interviewed staff. And I’ve really just done a lot of work around this subject because it’s the crisis point. Right. A lot of people with serious mental illness have been inpatient and they end up there in a variety of ways. And it’s a terrifying subject. It’s a terrifying subject.

Jackie: I also think that there’s a lot of, I guess, misconceptions or at least assumptions about it based on movies, pop culture, haunted asylums, throwback, to all of the things that we think we know. But I’m going to assume are probably incorrect, but I’m going to find out when I ask you all these questions.

Gabe: Pop culture is a terrible place to get facts.

Jackie: You need to put it on a shirt

Gabe: I don’t know that anybody would wear it. Because, you know, how many people are lawyers because of law and order. How many people are doctors because of Grey’s Anatomy? How many people think they can get away with murder because of the show, how to get away with murder and snapped. I understand why pop culture is spoon feeding you information and it makes you feel like you’re seeing behind the curtain a little bit. And pop culture is really great at playing with our emotions. They don’t just show you what it’s like to be in a psychiatric hospital. They pair it with a dark and stormy night and with sad music and they cut to clips of a family crying. And in some ways, that’s not far off. Being in a psychiatric hospital feels like a dark and stormy night. Anybody who goes to the hospital and has to stay overnight, their family is probably scared. The whole soundtrack thing would be nice, but we don’t really have soundtracks in real life and there’s not quick cuts in real life. Right. There’s a lot of hurry up and wait. There’s a lot of sitting. There’s a lot of wondering.

Jackie: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let me ask you questions before you continue, because I feel like you’re gonna answer some of the questions that I have in your little intro monologue, which is great, but I would like to make it purposeful because I have good questions at least. I think they’re good questions. I as somebody

Gabe: I will be judge of the good questions.

Jackie: Fair.

Gabe: I will tell you how well you’re doing.

Jackie: So I am somebody who has not been inpatient. I have considered it. There were times in my life where I was making the phone calls, trying to find somewhere to go. I don’t even know if that’s really what you should be doing. But there were times that I was I was thinking this is probably what I need to be doing. I didn’t do it for a myriad of reasons. But in those moments, all I’m thinking is the shots of movies that have run through my mind. Is this a good idea? Is this a bad idea? Is this the only idea? So I have a list of questions.

Gabe: Before you get into the questions, I’m going to answer from my personal lived experience, and I think it’s important to say that just like people living with bipolar disorder aren’t the same. All hospitals aren’t the same. I live in a big city. My admission was 17 years ago and different hospitals are different. Some better, some worse. Some the same. So I’m going to speak very general and from personal opinion. Your mileage may vary. Just wanna throw that right out there.

Jackie: Good disclaimer. The first question that I have, which is super relevant. How do you actually get admitted inpatient? Because I feel like this could happen a couple ways. But in my brain, my pop culture brain, where I go is I’m having a crisis. I go to the E.R. because that’s what they always say to do. And the E.R. goes, wow, you’re bananas. You’re losing it. And they go, we’re gonna admit you right here in this hospital. And then I have follow up questions, but I feel like that’s not right. Maybe it’s right.

Gabe: I sincerely don’t believe that the mental health establishment is saying you’re bananas and I understand why people think that. But, you know, just a little side note what their thinking is, is this is a person who needs help. So that is absolutely correct. People can go to an emergency room. They are diagnosed with something or they’re a danger to themselves or others. And then they are admitted to a psychiatric hospital. That is how I ended up in a psychiatric ward.

Jackie: Is it a psychiatric hospital or a ward? Like every hospital has a psych ward.

Gabe: Well, no, not every hospital has a psych ward and some hospitals specialize just in psychiatry. So there are psychiatric hospitals. They do nothing but mental illness. Mental health and psychiatry. And then there’s regular hospitals that just like they would have an oncology ward or a new baby ward. They would also have a psychiatric ward. The hospital that I was in was a psychiatric hospital that was attached to and part of a larger hospital system. So I guess I was in both a ward and a hospital. But it does vary where you are. And it’s also important to point out that some rural areas, they don’t have a ward or a hospital, meaning to get care. They can be driven 25, 50, 100 miles away to get some sort of services.

Jackie: Yikes. That actually was legitimately shocking to me. Not shocking that in rural areas they don’t have access to good care. But just thinking about in a moment of crisis going, well, let’s pack a snack because it’s going to take us 40 minutes to get wherever we’re going. But rewinding for a minute. So you’re having a moment of crisis. You can’t just call up a hospital that specializes in mental illness. Right. Be like, hey, I’m coming on in the way you can with an E.R., right? Like, don’t you have to make an appointment? There’s all this talk about not being enough beds. Right? There’s never enough beds. So how do you when you’re in a crisis, how do you get to where you need to be?

Gabe: This is where it’s really shitty for people with mental illness, especially in crisis. You are often committed to a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward, meaning you did not decide, oh my God, something’s wrong with me. Make an appointment and or go to the emergency room and then check yourself in. A lot of times the police are called, the authorities get involved. It’s scary. Most people end up in the psychiatric ward through some sort of crisis point.

Jackie: And when you get there, you’re just in, right? It’s not like do not pass, go, do not collect $200. We’re just the police show up, you get out and you’re like, I’m here now.

Gabe: That’s probably simplistic. The police show up, they evaluate what is going on, and they decide that you are a danger to yourself or others and they decide not to arrest you. It’s very important to throw that in because it’s certainly possible that the police show up and they arrest you. You are having psychosis. You think that, you know, people are chasing you and that there’s monsters around every corner. But all they’re focusing on is the fact that you’re in a convenience store throwing canned goods and they’re like, well, that’s vandalism, that’s theft, that’s trespassing. And they arrest you and take you to jail and you get no help. So in a way, the police showing up and seeing a crisis, seeing something go wrong, recognize it as mental illness and taking you to the hospital where you are then committed against your will. It is actually things going very, very well. But I want to put a slight pause there and look at it from the perspective of somebody with mental illness. You’re in crisis. You’re scared. You’re not in your right mind. The police show up and now you’re locked behind locked doors in a scary place with crazy people.

Jackie: That sounds pretty terrifying.

Gabe: It’s incredibly terrifying.

Jackie: So how did? Let’s talk about you. How did you get in? Where you were?

Gabe: As far back as I can remember, I always thought about suicide. I wanted to die every day of my life as far back as I can remember. On good days, I thought, well, today is not gonna be the day that I die. And on bad days, I thought, well, maybe this is the day that I’ll do it. I thought this was normal because, hey, no good mental health training purpose of this show. Right. We want to have more conversations surrounding mental illness and mental health. I didn’t know that I had bipolar disorder. My family didn’t know that I had bipolar disorder. Nobody recognized the signs and symptoms of mental illness for reasons that will fill up years and years of not crazy episodes.

Jackie: Gabe, we already know that you’re sick. But how did you get admitted?

Gabe: Someone finally recognized something was wrong and asked me if I was planning on killing myself.

Jackie: Who was that someone?

Gabe: It was practically a stranger. It was a woman that I was casually dating at the time. And I say casually dating because we try to keep this a family show. But she recognized that something was wrong and did something about it.

Jackie: And what did she do?

Gabe: First, she asked me if I was planning on killing myself. And I said yes. And I got excited because I thought this was a normal conversation. I thought that everybody thought about suicide. So the first thing that I thought in my head is, oh, my God, I’ve got a helper, this is gonna be fantastic. You know, after I’m dead, I have like a will and some paperwork and insurance documents I need my family to find and I was gonna leave it on the kitchen table with a note that says, hey, this is what you need to do now that I’m dead. But I can give it to her and she can give it to my mom and dad. This is gonna be fantastic. I was thrilled.

Jackie: I hate the term “heart just sank,” but like I just got that like can’t breathe moment when you said I have a helper. Like that is such a, it’s not good thought processing for obviously shows where you were in the moment of, let’s say, somebody asking you if you’re suicidal and you’re like, yes, someone to help. That’s terrifying.

Gabe: It’s crazy, it’s nuts.

Jackie: It’s terrifying.

Gabe: It shows that something is wrong with your brain

Jackie: Mm-hmm.

Gabe: Or your thought process, it’s proof that something is going very wrong in your life. To think that somebody is asking you about killing yourself because they want to be involved in some sort of motivating or positive way. Isn’t that messed up? Not surprising. She had the same reaction as you. She freaked out. She freaked out. And honestly, I looked at her like she was crazy. I thought, why? Why is this woman freaking out?

Jackie: So what did she do after that?

Gabe: She said we need to go to the hospital. She said we need to go to the hospital right now. And I said, why do we need to go to the hospital? I’m not sick. And she said, we need to go to the emergency room. I said, the emergency room. The emergency room is where you go. Like when you break your leg, right? When we fall off the roof. When we’re, you know, you’re playing with fireworks on the Fourth of July. You burn your hand. It’s not some place that you go because you’re feeling the way you felt your entire life.

Jackie: Yeah, yeah, I guess if you look at it in hindsight of.

Gabe: I did not see any of my feelings as an issue. This is the way that I always felt. Therefore, I did not see it as sickness. I understood sickness to be aberrant. You feel differently. You know, normally you’re not throwing up. Now you’re throwing up. Sickness. Normally your nose is not running. Now it’s running. Sickness. Not, I felt this way my entire life. I still feel this way. You want me to go to a doctor for it? You, pardon the pun, I thought she was nuts. I really did think, wow. I have come across a crazy person. Just great. Now I have two problems. I need to plan my suicide and I need to take care of this wackadoo that that’s what was going through my mind. I can’t be any more blunt than that.

Jackie: We’ll be right back after these messages.

Announcer: Interested in learning about psychology and mental health from experts in the field? Give a listen to the Psych Central Podcast, hosted by Gabe Howard. Visit PsychCentral.com/Show or subscribe to The Psych Central Podcast on your favorite podcast player.

Announcer: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.com. Secure, convenient, and affordable online counseling. Our counselors are licensed, accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential. Schedule secure video or phone sessions, plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel it’s needed. A month of online therapy often costs less than a single traditional face to face session. Go to BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral and experience seven days of free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you. BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral.

Jackie: We’re back talking about Gabe’s inpatient hospitalization. So you roll up to the E.R., you get out, as you may know. You do know. And as I know, I’ve been to the E.R. lots of times. You walk up to the desk and they ask you, what are you here for? Which luckily it’s not a gunshot wound in a super emergency. Because then they make you sit in the waiting room. But you walk in and you say.

Gabe: This is fascinating, right? So she did convince me to go, obviously. And here I am. And we walk in and she says, this is my friend Gabe, and he wants to kill himself.

Jackie: And the lady at the counter said, great, we’ll be with you in 20 minutes?

Gabe: No, the lady said, you know, OK, here’s the here’s some paperwork. We’re going to have a social worker come over and talk to you. And I honestly don’t know how long we waited, but they took it very, very seriously. And they put me in a room behind a curtain. And I remember the first person to talk to me was like a nurse and then a social worker. I very clearly remember a social worker. And, you know, some other nurses asked me questions. And finally, the emergency room doctor came in and asked me questions. And that guy said something along the lines of, hey, we need to get you a psych consult. So a psychiatrist is going to come and talk to you. Around this time is when I just started to blackout.

Jackie: Do they ask you questions, though? You know, when you go to your primary care physician or something and they say in the last two weeks, have you felt depressed? Have you had a hard time sleeping or they when you walk in and you say, hi. I want to kill myself. Are they like, OK, well, let’s. What does that mean to you or are they like, OK, cool. So have you been sad lately here? I mean, what did they say?

Gabe: Here is where things are going to diverge greatly. I know what they’re supposed to say.

Jackie: Mm hmm.

Gabe: I want to be very, very clear. I’ve been in the mental health advocacy game for a long time and they have a questionnaire lists and follow up questions and they are gauging you. They ask you if you’re feeling suicidal. They ask you if you have a plan. They ask if you have access to means, you know, they ask you, like you said, how have you felt over the last two weeks? If it interferes with the activity of daily living? That comes up a lot. That day, I don’t remember any of that. I remember a lot of people coming in. And according to the woman who brought me to the hospital, I didn’t seem to notice that they kept asking me the same questions over and over again.

Jackie: This the worst part about the E.R.

Gabe: Yeah, I didn’t notice it. 

Jackie: They just ask you the same fucking thing over and over.

Gabe: I did not notice. And again, at some point, I just completely, completely blacked out. And the next thing that I remember was waking up in a psychiatric hospital as an inpatient.

Jackie: Ok, so let’s talk.  Let’s talk about that because let’s talk about what I think inpatient looks like. Maybe not what I think, but let’s talk about What Girl, Interrupted taught me about what in-patient looks like. Inpatient care looks like a bunch of people in a nice sunny room doped up out of their minds. So they’re not really walking. They’re not really talking. They’re just like hanging out weirdly and silently. Everybody has a room and a roommate, which they get locked in at night. There’s a line for meds that everybody stands in. And a lot of people don’t want to take their meds. And then there’s a group therapy part of the day and then there’s a one on one therapy part of the day. How close am I?

Gabe: So in some ways, you’re not as far off as you think.

Jackie: That kind of makes me sad.

Gabe: And in other ways, you’re really, really, really far off. That’s the thing about pop culture, right? The reason it’s so devious is that it’s got that little bit of truth in it. Are you locked in a psychiatric ward and or hospital? Yes. Yes, absolutely. Do they try to make the rooms like really big and bright? Yeah, they can’t have a lot of stuff in them. The furniture has to be extremely heavy. So you can’t pick it up and throw it. The furniture has to be not cloth because you have to be able to wipe it down. And listen, if you look at any place in a hospital, all of that furniture is vinyl or leather. It’s not cloth because there’s fluids everywhere. And it is. Is it ugly? Yes. You’re not staying at a bed and breakfast. As far as the people doped up out of their mind, no, but, yes. Do these people look like they’re having a good day? No. We’re in a hospital.

Jackie: Are you interacting with other people, like the way that it’s sort of like a group room? Because when I was in the hospital, if I had a roommate, I didn’t want to talk to them. I don’t want to look at them. And there was no like social area wasn’t mingling. It was like, I’m not here trying not to die. So.

Gabe: There is a social area. Physically, we’re OK in general. Movement is good. They don’t want us to lay in bed all day because, you know, you’re depressed and you’re feeling suicidal and they let you sleep all day, that that’s not going to kind of help move you along. Right. They do get us out of our rooms and hoard us into like sort of that, you know, that sunshiny room that you describe with a bunch of people wandering around as far as interactions concerned. You know, that’s a tough one. We are encouraged to interact with each other. And by the last day, I formed a basketball team that we called the straight jackets.

Jackie: Oh, god.

Gabe: On the first day I sat in the farthest corner and held a book over my face that I was not reading, but I wanted people to think that I was reading. And I also didn’t want to see what was going on. And people largely left me alone in the middle. I played checkers. So it’s tough, right? I don’t think anybody the day they get to the hospital wants to hang out with the other hospital. And I’m not talking psychiatric. I just you know, my dad’s been in the hospital for surgery. He’s had a roommate each and every time. I don’t think he could tell you what they look like.

Jackie: That’s the worst. It’s the absolute worst.

Gabe: Nobody wants to meet friends in the hospital and to use your girl interrupted an allergy that might be the cruelest part of these movies. In my mind, these movies, these books, they always end with these lifelong friendships. They always end with these. You met people who made you better. You met somebody that inspired you. You discovered that you love art. That’s. No. You were in the hospital. You were diagnosed. You were removed from crisis. You were given an emergency care. And then you leave. You don’t. You.

Jackie: You’re not besties with anybody?

Gabe: You really aren’t. And I remember some of the stories of the people who I was inpatient with. And they’re not even necessarily positive stories. They’re not negative ones. They’re just it’s just really hard. It’s you’re scared and you’re sick. And hospitals are ugly and they’re ugly for necessity. And that’s something that I want to touch on. Right. So many people think that psychiatric hospitals and psychiatric wards are ugly because they hate the patients. They’re not. They’re ugly because they have to be. The reason that the doors are locked is because they need to keep a safe. Somebody who’s suicidal or not in their right mind just can’t roam the hospital grounds. What if we get our hands on a knife from the cafeteria? They have to be able to control the area. And when you control the area, you lock the doors.

Jackie: Are the, like your bedroom door? Do those get locked? Did they get locked?

Gabe: They didn’t.

Jackie: Ok, it was like the ward was locked, but.

Gabe: So essentially, the way that it worked. And again, your hospital may vary. Is there were wings. So I was in the male wing. There was another wing for females. And then there was a geriatric wing, which was for older people and.

Jackie: You only wear nightgowns, right? Like that’s what in my head they only wear nightgowns.

Gabe: No. Nope. We all had our street clothes on.

Jackie: And long gray hair, that is not been brushed in a minute.

Gabe: No.

Jackie: I also learned that in Girl, Interrupted.

Gabe: All, all all of us were in our street clothes. And now the first day that I was in, I came from the emergency room and I wasn’t a gown, but my street clothes were there. When I woke up and figured out what was going on or where I was, they told me that I could take a shower and put on my street clothes. And later that day, the woman who brought me to the psychiatric hospital brought me more clothes. And that’s what I wore the whole time. And so, no, no, there wasn’t long, stringy gray hair.  I’m not saying that there wasn’t somebody in a corner rocking back and forth because there was listen, that that is a reality. Some people are sicker than others. It might also be a good idea to point out that Girl, Interrupted was also about like really long term care.

Jackie: It was also in the 60s when it was not as good as it may be today either, right?

Gabe: Yeah,

Jackie: Yeah, like there’s a lot of things that have changed.

Gabe: There’s a lot of differences. Yeah. Yeah. And again. Since we’re using Girl Interrupted, I don’t think that it’s a bad movie and this is certainly this person’s experience. So it’s really hard to say, no, you’re wrong because I wasn’t there. But the takeaway is that people are getting of sort of this like sad, depressing, miserable place where everybody’s mean to you and you’re locked in this room for some sort of punitive reason. I wanted to smell those myths, but I also want to point out that it is depressing, are locked in a room and some of this is against your will. I don’t know how to put those things in my brain because the reason that you’re locked in the room is to keep you safe. But you’re still an adult who’s locked in a room.

Jackie: Right. 

Gabe: The reason that everything’s ugly is because it’s a hospital and hospitals are ugly and there are safety issues at large. But we still can’t get over the fact that it’s ugly and people will be like, well, it’s really depressing to be inpatient. No shit. It’s depressing to be in the hospital. It’s depressing to be at the DMV. There’s just things in life that even though this is the best thing for us, it is depressing. Life is depressing sometimes. And it this is really, really difficult because in a psychiatric hospital, we often believe that these things are punitive. I believed with every single fiber of my being that the reason that that door was locked is because society hated me. And that was not. Why not? Why at all?

Jackie: I want to ask a follow up to that. When you left, did you still feel that way? Like when you walked out, you were thinking to yourself, this door’s locked because society hates me?

Gabe: Yes.

Jackie: Yes.

Gabe: Because they need to protect society from people like me. And that’s the part that is just so incredibly unfair. Nobody dispelled me of any of these myths. I believed that that door was locked because society was afraid of me and hated me. And I was a bad person. And nobody sat me down and told me that wasn’t why it would be years, years later, after I reached recovery, decided to become an advocate. Like, I didn’t even learn this like early in my advocacy days, like I was holding national awards and published in national publications. And finally, finally, I said this to a psychiatrist. I said, it’s really mean to lock people behind doors because society has given up on them. And the guy said, that’s not why we do it. And I said, why do you do it? And he said, you’re suicidal. You’re not in your right mind. You want to hurt yourself. You’re a danger to yourself or others. We have to be able to control the environment. We can’t let you roam free. We have to have an environment that we know that you’re safe in. And that means that means walls, fences, doors, windows locked. That’s why we do it. That made so much sense. It made so much sense.

Jackie: It took a psychiatrist years, years, years later to explain that to you?

Gabe: Yeah.

Jackie: So looking back now, how do you feel about that experience?

Gabe: I feel completely differently. Everything is different, I’ve learned so much from those days and I feel really lucky that I could talk to more people on both sides and learn more and realize that even though I felt that was happening, you know, just being locked up because I was a danger and that society hated me. I realize that there was just so much more to it than that. In those moments, I could only see the world through the lens of my own eyes, and becoming an advocate allowed me to see things from so many different perspectives. Society’s perspective, other patients’ perspective, the doctor’s perspectives. I don’t know that I ever would have realized that, and this is why I believe in having conversations surrounding the bad things that happen to us. Right. Because if I hadn’t had those conversations, I would still be walking around thinking that society hated me and locked me in a room because I was a bad person and I never, ever would have seen the broader picture.

Jackie: Well, and that’s why we do the show, right? Because as it turns out, talking about these experiences make them easier for all of us to participate in and appreciate.

Gabe: Yeah. Who knew? It’s almost like working it out versus internalizing it makes the world better. And I had so much to say. We decided to break this up into a two part episode. So this was part one. Come back next week for part two and learn more about Gabe’s inpatient adventures. If you like the show, please share us everywhere on social media. Rate us. Rank us. Use your words and stay tuned after the credits because we always put funny shit there. We will see you next week with part two.

Announcer: You’ve been listening to Not Crazy from Psych Central. For free mental health resources and online support groups, visit PsychCentral.com. Not Crazy’s official website is PsychCentral.com/NotCrazy. To work with Gabe, go to gabehoward.com. To work with Jackie, go to JackieZimmerman.co. Not Crazy travels well. Have Gabe and Jackie record an episode live at your next event. E-mail [email protected] for details. 

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