#mouse talks bapo

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if i told you Matthew Lloyd was autistic too would you think i was right or insane?

#there’s just something so. hmmm. about the way he’s like - in the group but he’s not IN the group #and realistically there’s no reason he shouldn’t be #maybe I’ll do a longer deliberately autistic reading of his character like i did jason. you’d have to believe me then #or maybe I just have a hyperspecific matt charactisation that looks insane to everyone but me #mouse talks bapo #Matt Lloyd #autistic matt lloyd #bare a pop opera #(also tism4tism lloydconnell is so <3 to me)

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okay no but the 1999 bare demos go so hard what the fuck

#i am in TEARS #see me? warning?? ​all grown up??? I will never emotionally recover from this #and STUPID SECOND THOUGHTS OH MY GOD- #mouse talks bapo #bare a pop opera #bare 1999

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BAPO discussion question of the day - how clockable is Peter Simmonds?

I’m aware that’s a wild way to start this post but it drives me mad thinking about it - is he externally identifiable as a gay man, even to people who are not, or is it only his anxiety & paranoia making it seem like a bigger thing than it is?

‘Epiphany’ is, of course, an exposition-heavy plot-convenient daytime nightmare sequence, but breaking down the content of the song, it sometimes makes me wonder how key these Queer Flags* are to Peter’s personality as a whole and the way he presents himself to the world.

[actual discussion under the cut for the sake of saving space]

* loves his female singers / loves to cook / looks around in gym / strong as Peter’s attraction to my makeup table / + the Top Gun/Tom Cruise lines in earlier versions of the song

it is also imo worth noting that all of these things (save for loves his female singers - “Fuck me Matt, it’s Diana Ross!” lives in my head rent-free) are basically brought up in ‘Epiphany’ and then not referenced again for the rest of the show

And in considering BAPO as a whole, we know that as a general rule we’re watching the story through Peter’s eyes/from Peter’s POV - so of course his experiences are going to inform the way he views and interacts with the world, and I’m turn how the world reacts to his interactions with it.

That said - Claire obviously had some idea or inkling, whether she liked to admit it or not. There are reasonable counter-points to be made that as his mother, Claire obviously saw a lot of Peter figuring himself out as a small child, back when he maybe didn’t think to hide himself and his interests - and so really if one wanted one could parlay the fact that Claire does have some idea into a point that Peter would be significantly less clockable than he fears himself to be, if his mother had a vested interest in discouraging any perceived Odd or Queer behaviours. So in a sense, individual interpretations of Claire Simmonds, as a mother and as a character, could affect individual opinions.

I personally lean more into the idea that he’s only so hyperaware of these expressions of his queerness because he lives it internally every day, and on the outside no one thinks too much of it - but it is also interesting to consider that had he & his classmates not been raised in such a sheltered (for lack of a better word) environment, no one would have been surprised. But I’m genuinely curious to hear other people’s thoughts on the matter -

#and I mean. there could be arguments made that no one WAS surprised about Peter - that the reason all the drama is such a drama is because - #- it’s *jason*. golden boy valedictorian with girls in love with him 24/7 #but again it’s hard to seperate how much of bapo is objective events and how much of it is informed by Peter’s perception of the world #tangentially it also poses the question of where Peter sits on the In-scale of the wonderland gang #because he’s definitely MORE In It than say alan or diane. but also definitely LESS In It than jason or tanya #but that’s more of a general group dynamic interpretation/characterisation discussion more so than one just about peter #peter simmonds #claire simmonds #bare a pop opera #mouse talks bapo #character analysis? kind of? #does anyone else even wonder about this or is it just a me problem

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i am having Feelings about this comparison;

'...a buried burden born alone...' - Jason McConnell, Role Of A Lifetime (1999 demo tracks)

'...[how did i learn] the truth you gave to me?' - Jason McConnell, Bare (bare; a pop opera)

like from a 1999 character analysis standpoint, i think it's really helpful to be able to look at that line and extrapolate a similar internal struggle as what Peter is dealing with, to understand why this Jason did what he did the way that he did it. Without as much time spent with/on him in the recording we have it's harder to put together a full picture of his & Peter's relationship and the way it progresses - but I think being able to look at this Jason's queerness as a pre-existing struggle only exacerbated by his feelings for/relationship with Peter allows for a little more nuance and/or compassion when discussing his suicide.

in much the same way, this concept that b;apo Jason didn't know he did and/or didn't know he could love anyone [but boys in particular] until he met and developed that connection with Peter is SUPER DUPER interesting in regards to analysing & explaining his behaviour as well - especially as it relates to his suicide and the sheer totality of his and Peter's break-up. Not only did this Jason lose his soulmate, but he also lost a really significant part of himself (in the sense that he doesn't know how to allow his queerness to exist outside of the confines of his relationship with Peter)

#is it that deep? absolutely not #it's just a point of thematic interest when comparing & contrasting different iterations of the show/characters #i like cutting up/twisting around direct quotes to make my ideas seem legitimate - don't want high school english class to go to waste #mouse talks bapo #bare 1999 #bare a pop opera #jason mcconnell #character analysis? kind of? #mcsimmonds

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mouse's attempted B;APO timeline

aka i was writing an irrelevant detail in a silly little fic and it occurred to me that oh wait i could actually think about this!!

credit where credit's due - i am using this timeline right here (from @hearmyvoicee) as a base, but i have some particular thoughts/interpretations of my own + felt like using 2001 dates! (bc why not, ya know? keep it basically of the time it opened) so this whole thing is mostly for my own reference, but if it makes sense to any of y'all as well? great <;3 [keeping it under the cut for my own sanity + yours]

.✨.

Sunday, January 7 [the feast of the Epiphany is celebrated on January 6th, or the closest Sunday to that date - in the case of 2001, that's the 7th]

Epiphany

Monday - Friday, January 8 - 12 [ i swear on my life someone mentioned to me once that it's generally accepted that You & I spans several days?? i cannot find who or where but someone tell me i'm not going insane ]

You & I

Friday, January 12 [the friday is entirely arbitrary, just seems the type of day you'd hold auditions - give it a week to stir interest, cast on friday, start up your rehearsals from the next monday onwards] [i have never been in theater though, so don't hold me to that]

Role Of A Lifetime

Auditions

Plain Jane Fatass

Thursday, February 22 [to me the phrase "we'll meet in Tanya's room on Friday night" implies that it's not yet Friday + in theory the song takes place during study hall, so an actual weekday? so to that end it could be any day monday-thursday, the specifics not mattering in particular, but i arbitrarily went with thursday so that Ivy’s birthday lines up right]

Wonderland

Friday, February 23

A Quiet Night At Home

Rolling

Best Kept Secret

Wednesday, February 28 [borrowing from the previous timeline for this one - the Lent + Ash Wednesday significance makes sense] [to that end, Ash Wednesday 2001 was in fact February 28th]

Confession

Portrait Of A Girl

Thursday, March 1 [in Wonderland they reference the fact that "Ivy's birthday's in a week", ergo wonderland date + 1 week]

Birthday, Bitch!

One Kiss

Are You There?

911! Emergency!

Friday, March 2 [peter mentions 911! Emergency as being "last night"]

Reputation Stain'd

Ever After

Saturday, March 10 [generally, the Spring Break week is from March 11 to March 17, so in my head it makes sense for them to be leaving for their spring break the day beforehand - ergo, March 10th]

Spring

One

✨ spring break / intermission ✨

Sunday, March 17 [the sunday makes sense in my head to mirror Epiphany]

Wedding Bells

Monday, March 19

In The Hallway

Monday, March 26 [ as claire says - "gone a week, i miss you already". so if classes started again on the 19th + 1 week is the 26th ]

Touch My Soul

See Me

Warning

[sidenote, easter 2001 was sunday april 15. to that end, to account for the Easter Monday holiday, likely they had the 16th off also]

Friday, May 18 [okay listen!! i know it crowds A LOT of act 2 together but!! the way sister chantelle says here "if you decide you want to get together one more time" implies to me that they aren't going to be having more Official rehearsal time before the play actually gets performed] [it all has to occur between monday may 14 & sunday may 20 for jason's "graduate next sunday" line to be technically correct] [rory's decided that they'll "meet back here. seven o'clock" - which i was always under the impression is the supposed to be rehearsal that sets up Promise] [Nadia's "call me tonight, or tomorrow, or whenever" to me implies that she won't see him tomorrow? so probably they don't have any classes or rehearsal the next day]["i know it's late" in Cross is such a little detail, but to me it just ties it all up]

Pilgrim's Hands

God Don't Make No Trash

All Grown Up

Promise

Once Upon A Time

Cross

Saturday, May 19 [saturday night seems a reasonable time to put on the show, right? like in order to make it accessible to family + friends outside of the school?]

Two Households

Bare

Queen Mab

A Glooming Peace

Tuesday, May 22 [a {catholic} person is buried between 2 and 7 days after their death, typically around 3. i always got the vibes that Absolution was supposed to take place on/around jason's funeral, ergo the play + 3 days]

Absolution

Sunday, May 27 [going with the assumption that they graduate on the last sunday in may, in 2001 that date was the 27th]

No Voice

.✨.

wanna make it super clear that i a) am australian and b) am not catholic and c) have never been to boarding school or in theater so a lot of dates were found via google search, and/or arbitrarily assigned weekdays

also also at the end of the day i'm not sure the specifics of the timeline super duper matter, it was mostly just for fun - but like. feel free to share ur thoughts!

#bare a pop opera #bapo timeline #mouse talks bapo #look i know its kind of insane pacing to have pilgrim's hands through to cross all happen in the space of like. 6/7 hours. BUT #i mean you COULD stretch it out to have pligrim's hands through promise happen on the thursday / OUAT + cross on the friday / #the actual play on the saturday - but if there was a friday between promise + the play then why wouldn't they have another rehearsal? - #- the kids being generally untalented/unprepared as they are

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if i posted about the 1999 bare demos + Bare The Musical sometimes too would you still think I was cool

#this is mostly a joke #but also not really bc the different iterations/universes for this story absolutely fascinate me #and i like thinking about it! #not to mention that from version to version the characters are entirely different people to me #like Peter Chaily is not b;apo Peter Simmonds is not BTM Peter Simmonds #and i think they’re all interesting characters in their own right #mouse talks bapo #bare a pop opera #bare 1999 #bare the musical

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maybe I was simply not around the active heyday of the B;APO fandom but like. do we ever seriously acknowledge Meghan Lloyd??

“Meghan Lloyd got hit by a bus and died, Lucas.” "Well, a win's a win."

my dude!! that is ur classmate, presumably ur at least acquaintance, and you a) didn’t know/forgot this and b) don’t really care??

to that end I’m just. she had to have least been enrolled for the year to have been in the class ranks, right? like for the school to have not taken her out of the system? so she can't have died that long ago. several months, at most - i'm just. wondering about her as a character* and having feelings about it.

or am i fundamentally misunderstanding something/reading too deeply into the joke? - which is a real, although far less interesting, possibility.

*i say "wondering" - the reality is she exists very very clearly in my mind, but it's still sort of sad to know that her story ended before our story (in the form of the actual musical) started. we know all these other characters (to varying degrees) but her?? nothing but a throwaway joke also the tragic symmetry of her death at the start of the year and jason's at the end of the year <\3

#her lack of canon is useful tho bc i can use her as a narrative foil and/or parallel character to whoever the hell I want #usually Jason #but sometimes Ivy or Rory. Peter if I’m really feeling it #i don't personally subscribe to the concept that she and matt are related btw - i have seen several takes on it but it's just not- #- where i'm at with those characters #ALTHO the jokes about her just being matt pre-transition ARE very funny to me #but again. not where i'm actually at with it. #mouse talks bapo #bare a pop opera #Meghan Lloyd #(i think her name doesn't technically have an h in it BUT i have decided to spell it that way bc i can and i think it's pretty)

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thinking about Ivy’s flirty little

‘Maybe~?’

from Wonderland vs her

‘Maybe… please?’

from Promise

#is this anything?? #this *feels* like something #I don’t know WHAT but it’s SOMETHING #like on an obvious surface level it’s about how much she doesn’t want Matt vs how badly she does want Jason #but I am having FEELINGS without the right words to describe the depth of… something #society if I had the right vocabulary to analyse Ivy’s character the way I want to >> #mouse talks bapo #Ivy Robinson #bare a pop opera

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it’s thinking about lucadia hours

#for someone with ‘lucadia enthusiast’ in xeir bio I sure as hell don’t post about them very much #but today I’m thinking about the ‘im not going’ ‘what do you mean?’ interaction in AQNAH #like?? there was never a question of if Nadia was invited/welcome which is sort of interesting and sad to think about #like ik it’s more about establishing her solitude as (at least partially) self-inflicted and not an active icing out by the wonderland gang #- at large/as a whole #but i’m a lucadia guy at heart so I do like to imagine that he invited her specifically and she just turned it down for her own reasons #anyway i love them #so if ur so inclined give me some fic ideas for them that aren’t just my 10tihay au #mouse talks bapo #lucas carter #nadia mcconnell #lucadia

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rest in peace Jason McConnell, you would’ve loved The Black Parade (Deluxe Edition)

#is this anything?? #I specify deluxe edition purely bc of Heaven Help Us #he’d eat that shit up if he was allowed to #his favourite tracks would be The Sharpest Lives + I Don’t Love You + House Of Wolves + Mama + Famous Last Words + Heaven Help Us #is that too many?? idk the whole album goes hard so #what is the actual overlap of MCR fans & BAPO fans. now I wanna know. #bare a pop opera #Jason McConnell #mouse talks bapo

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i understand from an objective standpoint why it makes sense for bare to be set in the early early 2000s.

but it is so important to me that Nadia McConnell has to have witnessed and imprinted on Hairspray (2007) before her life entirely fell apart in their senior year

#I KNOW the original movie came out in 1988 #and that the stage show premiered in 2002 #but the 2007 movie is imo THE definitive/most iconic version out there #mouse talks bapo #nadia mcconnell #did I write a Nadia/Lucas ficlet where Hairspray (2007) is a plot point? yes I did. and what about it #bare a pop opera

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unpopular opinion?? maybe?

Matt & Ivy have a really interesting dynamic!! both pre- and post-canon!! with or without romantic undertones!! either reciprocal or one-sided!!

and obviously it has to be handled with a particular level of care/respect BUT I think if we allowed them enough grace there is space to explore a really interesting possibility for that relationship.

#obviously Matt is not ENTITLED to Ivy - im absolutely not saying that at all #and he definitely did a lot of things extremely wrong and Ivy doesn’t HAVE to forgive him - she doesn't even have to *like* him #and in many stagings she actually doesn’t at all! even pre-canon she isn't into him on a *platonic* level - which i love for her #but I also think that - misguided & clumsy about it though he was - Matt is genuinely trying his best to see her as a person. #an idealized version of a person yes. but a person nonetheless. #which is what Ivy wants from Jason (and tbf he sees her as a person also but it’s an obviously different situation) #and while you can't force romantic compatibility (that was like. the whole point.) in some versions of the show they're not-quite-dating #- in varying types of “situationship” with varying levels of commitment. so it's not insane to me to say hey #maybe they need time to stabilize themselves and figure out who they are again after the events of the show. but maybe a couple years - #- down the line they reconnect and they're both in a better place & maybe this time it can all work out. #idk I think I just see a lot of people write it off entirely - and they’re well within their rights to do so don’t get me wrong #but I don’t think it’s fair necessarily to put them in the ‘doomed to fail’ category #wow okay I care about them as a pair more than I realised #tldr; give Matt & Ivy and their relationship dynamic the grace + complexity they deserve #mouse talks bapo #bare a pop opera #Ivy Robinson #Matt Lloyd #[as a side note - sometimes I think about queer Matt & transmasc Ivy & the interesting concept of their potential boyfriendism]

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consider this - high masking low empathy autistic Jason McConnell

#i WILL re-interpret as much of his dialogue as I have to to make this make sense #so stay tuned for that #mouse talks bapo #Jason McConnell #autistic jason mcconnell #bare a pop opera #and i mean like. a significant chunk of his story is about him trying to figure out this social script he’s supposed to follow #also there is researched significant overlap between queerness & autism. if one wanted to consider that aspect of it

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Peter Chaily the boy that you are <33

#I could talk about him forever #like im so so so glad we got the Peter Simmonds that we did!! im obsessed with him truly #BUT!! peter chaily is so fascinating to me I think he’s so interesting #like?? he’s such a feral little mess but there’s also something so desperate and achy in the way he is #bare 1999 #peter chaily #peter simmonds #im character tagging p.Simmonds for organisational purposes I know this post isn’t really about him #mouse talks bapo

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ivy robinson is the prettiest boy and I mean that unironically in a gendered way

#what if I told you he was a gay trans man? what then? #she isn’t aware of it in most universes but I just. i know it in my soul #like I am fully aware that so much of Ivy’s story in inextricably related to her female-ness & her girl-ness by extension #(sex & gender as different concepts from where we stand. within the canon they're pretty interlinked but you get me) #and absolutely i don't mean to malign or detract from or ignore the significance of that within the bapo canon - not at all #and obviously ivy is an interesting and compelling and complex character in the way she exists in canon as a cis girl! #but like. just for fun. he is transmasc to me #sometimes he knows/realises this. sometimes he doesn't. #bare a pop opera #mouse talks bapo #Ivy Robinson #transmasc ivy robinson #i actually have many thoughts on this that may warrant an Actual Post but for now im rambling in the tags #for context I was thinking about bapo at work (as I am prone to do) and was struck by the concept of Ivy being right about her relationship #with/attraction to Jason being something more special (for lack of a better word) - on a deeply subconscious level she feels as though she #*belongs* with a boy Like Jason (read; a gay man) because on this subconscious level she knows she too is a gay man #[ask me to elaborate on the femaleness vs girlness aspect of it as it relates to Ivy and I will btw! I think it’s an interesting concept]

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Rory is like a little purse dog to me <3

#I’m just saying shit but I promise this is the only way to say it that makes sense #I love to carry her around and whenever someone asks be like #look at her !! babygirl <3 #mouse talks bapo #Rory Browne #(not a canon last name but I read it somewheee once so that’s what I’m going with) #*somewhere #bare a pop opera