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mceajc · 3 months

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I watched a TERF interview

I didn't want to, but I felt I had to. The video is

youtube

I left a comment on the video. It turned out about 3k words. Here it is

I'm going to write comments as I listen, so apologies in advance for poor formatting or any other issues.

@2:35 Helen Joyce - whose background is in mathematics, and not the study of gender expression - went to speak to an expert on queer and trans experience, and threw away what was written and wrote it herself because she disagreed with it. How interesting that she imposed her own viewpoint on her readers bereft of expert opinion. Gender presentation doesn't have anything to do with sex and reproduction. That's the whole point about having a different word to describe it. @3:00 "I see continua everywhere I look ... all these things is a smooth continuum - the one thing that isn't is sex". I find it very strange for a scientist - a biologist no less - to say that sex is binary given the vast number of ways that biological organisms reproduce. Perhaps this exception only exists in your mind, and not reality, perhaps?

This statement is also provably false, because of the existence of intersex people - never mind the other organisms who have stranger lifecycles.

@3:35 "Language is used as something to express your thoughts clearly" Language is malleable and ever changing - and words for people who refuse to conform to this invisible binary have existed for centuries in cultures all across the world. If you want to be clearly understood, be careful how terms are used. So far, the terms "male", "man", "woman" and "female" have yet to be defined clearly. I hope they are, because I fail to see the rationality of the statements made so far with the definitons as I understand them.

@6:00 "My hands are female" What an odd turn of phrase. I would have used the word "feminine". Anyway, this sort of phraseology is a bit disingenuous. It makes it sound like there is no overlap whatsoever between the bodies of a male and female. If I said "anyone under 1.6 metres tall is female, because the average height of a male is 1.7 metres", people would - quite rightly - look at me like a complete imbecile. Helen gets to say essentially the same thing in a slightly oblique way and ... gets away with it?

@7:00 I would agree that some people do take things to the extreme and say things like "heteronormative is a bad thing". This does not make it less bad to have heteronormativity the assumed default, or to view "nontraditional" family units as inherently less valuable - or in some cases as actively bad. Assuming things like that does make someone a prejudiced bigot, whose views are unsupported by evidence.

@9:00 I see a strange dissonance between complaining about sex and gender stereotypes while also mocking the queer groups who go against these stereotypes. To then immediately follow this with the incoherent sentence "it's worse than ... if he doesn't like rugby he's a poofter and let's bully him, it's now saying he's actually a girl." I don't think anyone is saying you should treat a child who doesn't like rugby as a girl. This is a very strange assertion to make. Are there any examples of a child being treated as a girl because they didn't like rugby? What on earth is the point being made here? You seem to be the ones trying to enforce the "pink box blue box" binary, and I am glad you see the harm in this - hardly an argument against allowing a wider variety of gender expression.

@9:44 If people learn gender identity/expression from the stereotypes, then what is your explanation for the existence of gender nonconforming (nonbinary) folk - both trans and cis? Helen then goes on to assert that sissy boys are being encouraged to identify as girls? Where is the evidence for this?

@10:15 I do wonder whether people might be even happier if they got to explore different gender expressions and roles. It would likely affirm a great many peoples' feelings that they are secure in their own gender, as well as experience what life is like for others.

@11:00 I absolutely agree that there should not be pressure to be one thing or another.

@12:19 "your sex is the best guess that a doctor had when you were born" This is factually accurate, and mistakes are made. There are many documented cases where intersex people were operated upon as a baby when a determination fell between the "accepted range" for some physical characteristic. It's not as though doctors do genetic, endocrine and hormone testing on every baby and put that into a spreadsheet which then spits out "male" or "female" - mainly because even that would be unreliable.

@12:37 "a tiny number of people". I suppose if you think a "tiny number of people" is bigger than 160 million, and that's using the very lower end of the prevalence of intersex characteristics of 0.02% of 8 billion people. There could be many hundreds of thousands in the UK alone, and we will never know unless we perform invasive genome, hormone and other tests in order to find out.

@13:00 Echo chambers are not good, on that we agree. I would urge anyone to actually speak to trans folk and get to know them, rather than dismiss their lived experience out of hand.

@15:36 From a 2021 published study across some 30 OECD countries that legalised gam marriage, the suicide rate dropped between 10 and 20%. Other studies indicate that the rate of suicide for LGBT kids can be as high as eight times higher if the child is someone "who experience high levels of rejection from their families during adolescence".

@16:05 This is disingenuous - in all likelihood a lie. Yes, being on cross-sex hormones can produce sterility. No responsible doctor has ever given cross-sex hormones to a child. Puberty blockers, on the other hand, do exactly what they say and delay the onset of puberty. This allows time for everyone involved in the process to come to a decision. Often, the option is there to have sperm or eggs stored before any potentially irreversible effects happen. NOBODY is sterilising children. If anyone has evidence of this, absolutely those doctors should be reported. I have seen no evidence of this.

I'm a little surprised that so many people are shocked and appalled by the idea of sterility. Infertility affects up to 7% of men, and many millions of women. Many men and women choose sterility. Fertility is hardly a good measure of whether someone's life is worthwhile or not.

@16:35 I am very glad that there has not been an increase in children committing suicide. People commit suicide when they are out of options and that's the last positive action they can take to end suffering. People commit suicide because they don't get the support they desperately need. So perhaps you are right, and it is a "playground fad" to act trans, or pretend to be trans, or explore different gender roles - who eventually grow up to be either secure in their assigned gender, or who transition in a loving, supporting home. I rather suspect that this will be the case when the scientific studies come in.

@17:06 "I think much more probable" - well, at least you are honest that there is no evidence supporting your assertions either.

@17:39 "no evidence that not transitioning the child would decrease that risk". Well good luck getting ethical approval for denying treatment for gender dysphoria for a control group for that scientific study! What an asinine statement being played up as a reasonable argument.

@17:54 Indeed, it is very brave to hold these viewpoints. I am reminded of Posie Parker going to New Zealand to hold an anti-trans rally, and actual Nazi's showed up to support the rally - fascist salutes and everything!

@18:44 "I was so far in I couldn't get back". Disturbing echoes of - an echo chamber? It's almost as though surrounding yourself with people who agree with you only alienates yourself from the general public further.

@2104 Again, I am baffled by arguments set forth here. All homosexual couples are infertile, but somehow this does not cause any difficulty for Helen. I also don't see the relevance of who someone is attracted to being relevant to anything, but in this I admit I probably just don't understand what's trying to be said.

@22:36 I would love to see links to these studies and any critiques. I could not find them when I went looking.

@23:32 I think many trans folk, especially in the UK, will not recognise the process from this description. There are people who wait years just for a first appointment. The waiting list. As of 2023-12-01 there is a 60 MONTH waiting list for a first appointment at the London Gender Identity Clinic. https://www.genderkit.org.uk/resources/wait-times/

@24:25 I thank Dr. Dawkins for his common decency. I have a couple of questions. 1) Could you please define what you mean by "woman", and 2) in what way would you not accept someone saying "I am a woman"? Are you so very confident that every cis woman you meet will meet the standards of your definition of "woman", and would you ask them to prove their sex to you? I am minded of a US government official having a cis girl tormented because they thought "she looked trans".

@26:22 I would also like to thank Dr. Dawkins for highlighting a very important point that often gets lost in these discussions is the sincerity. Too many gender-critical groups will make the same, tired, nonsensical posit of "what if I identify as an attack helicopter". These people are being insincere, and if not, are obviously mentally disturbed because attack helicopters are made of metal and not flesh. Sincerity matters very much, and it gets ignored by a lot of the "what if" arguments.

@26:38 "I don't think that being a woman or a man is the sort of thing you pay a price to be". Well, hooray for free healthcare! I would like to point out that to many gender critical people, being able to have children is one of the defining traits of the sexes - does Helen feel that women who pay for fertility treatments to be "not real women or mothers"? Are a couple who pay to adopt a child "not real parents"? I find this argument offensive. As a logical parallel, perhaps I could say that people who have to pay to see don't deserve the same treatment as those who were born with perfect eyesight. But that would be a crass, cruel stance to take - wouldn't it, Helen?

@27:46 What goes on in "women only spaces" that a person's genitals become relevant? I've had GPs and doctors of both sexes, and I've never seen their genitals. It's not relevant to the care they have given me. I do of course have sympathy for people who have been raped and do not want to be in the presence of someone who reminds them of the terrible actions of the past, in the same way that I don't expect someone who was mauled by a dog to put up with an over-friendly dog when they visit a friends' house - if they make the request, obviously it is common decency to make accommodations - but that is hardly the default.

@28:00 I have mentioned sincerity before, and it is relevant here too, but it doesn't need repeating. Sport. Ah, yes, where everyone should be exactly the same in order to compete. I do not know the best way to divide sport up, but we never divide things into just male and female. There are age groups, weight classes, divisions, handicaps - a thousand different ways that allow people to compete with others of a similar level. Biological sex, to me, is one of the dumbest ways to split groups up by ability and I'm sure the feminists would agree.

@29:31 This is an interesting point, but not in the way I think Helen meant it.

@30:30 I feel unutterably sad when a woman says that women wouldn't win anything in an open event. Jasmine Paris won (at least one) in elite open competition. A friend I worked with won outright a long distance running event. I am certain Simone Biles would have wiped the floor against any man. I am certain that women, given the same desire, advantages and encouragement as men, would close the gap with men significantly. I would be horrified if someone suggested that Kenyan men should be excluded from the marathon because "otherwise, non-Kenyan's would never win any marathons."

@30:50 I see Helen addresses the gymnastics issue - to an extent.

@32:28 Here is where we see ample evidence against the prohibitions Helen seems to be seeking from America.

I would ask all the parents out there: would you feel safe sending your child - who is of a sex different to yours - alone into a public toilet? Which would you rather do instead: take the child into the other toilet, or go themselves into the other toilet? The answer is easy at the moment if you are a father with a baby, since the women's toilet is more likely to have a baby changing station - but for older children? What would you do?

I am reminded of James O'Brien's point of "who checks"? If you elimiate someone from a space becasue of what their genitals are - who checks? Or will you legally require all trans folk to wear a pink triangle? Will you require people to out themselves as trans whenever they use a toilet away from home? Would you subject a whole group of people to the same "urinary leash" that women suffered under in the past? Will you make it an offence to be in certain public areas simply because of who they are, and not becaseu of what they do? These are dystopian questions to be asked. I know they are not the same, but there are echoes of apartheid, segregation - things that I would like to think are in the past and should stay there.

Many of the points made for women having separate facilities that Helen raised are applicable to all women.

Further, there are women who have been assaulted by women. Do we make separate accommodations for them? Or would you recommend they use the men's facilities?

I have all the sympathy in the world for rape victims who have traumatic flashbacks, and who feel unsafe. I wonder if Helen is aware of the number of trans people who don't go swimming because of fear? Fear of ridicule, fear of assault? Trans folk who have been assaulted? All assaults are terrible things, and we should do what we can to prevent them - but removing personal liberties from an entire group, the vast, vast majority of whom are blameless? This does not sit well with me, though how to go about dealing with the problem in a better way is a tricky question I do not have the answer to.

I've made all the points I want to about sport, but with Lia Thomas - what exactly is the argument here? Did the other swimmers feel unsafe?

@37:55 I suspect there are many trans folk - and all the other queer folk - out there who would object to the statement that the bullying all goes one way. It very much does not all go one way, and it is the focussing on trans people by mostly right wing reactionaries and media which has caused a great proportion of the ruckus. People who live and work with trans folk have a generally normal reaction to the fact they are trans - it's the people to whom a trans person is an abstract that manage to "other" them so much as to make them figures of fear and disgust. That's my view of the situation, in any case.

Trans people have existed for a long time. There are newpaper articles over a hundred years old about trans folk - and are written in a much more sympathetic way than would be the case now. Even sex-change surgery is older than knee transplants. Something has indeed changed, but I doubt it is the human beings themselves - it is some manufactured reaction that has gained traction. At least partly. There are actual issues and problems to solve, and I fully believe that solving them in a sensible way will be helpful to men, women and everyone in between.

@40:16 No argument here about the IOC being corrupt. Not a great reason to demonise sincere trans folk.

@41:55 Funny in a not funny way how Helen points out the oppressive behaviours of society toward people with non-conforming sexual attraction, and these are the same behaviours many people are displaying towards trans folk. It's LGBTQIAAP+ because it is groups of people who have been judged by society at large to be in some way "less" and so have been treated badly - thrown out the military, disowned by parents, fired from jobs, subjected to conversion practices - or otherwise fallen foul of falling outside of what is seen as "acceptable". I don't think a human being's worth should be down to what society deems "acceptable". Everyone who falls outside of "acceptable" felt the need to band together. Being gender critical feels like groups trying to pull the ladder up after themselves - it feels like we are going backwards, socially, towards some puritan thinking.

@42:54 Do tell, Helen, how gay culture works. I am all ears.

Oh, I see you leave it to the listeners imagination. I'd love to hear a survey to see what the reality is.

@43:05 I am, and always will be, a staunch supporter of "The L comes first". They are the ones who stepped up in teh AIDS crisis and donated the blood that was so desperately needed to help keep those suffering alive.

@45:30 (paraphrasing) "The people in this movement [what Helen calls the "Sex Realists"] have been through some sort fo crucible - and these can be good bad or indifferent". Helen then goes on to list some of the least reality-based groups I could think of. The only one she missed out is "Flat Earthers".

I do find it interesting that Helen and - Maya, is it? - are both economists. I wonder how many sex and reproductive biologists are in this group? Curious to see a break-down.

I am a fan of the acronym FART - Feminism Appropriating Radical Transphobe.

The dichotomy of "Intersex and trans people are a tiny minority, we shouldn't pander to their needs" and "trans and intersex folk are too numerous - they will destroy the data we use!"

It is saddening that some people see this as a battle, while trans folk just want to live their lives without fear or discrimination. If sex and gender were such natural things, we wouldn't need people like Helen to police it.

#richard dawkins #helen joyce #terf island #commentary #tw: misgendering #tw: suicide #Youtube

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viatagrinner · 2 years

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Gilbert von Obsidian. First love.

[Plot setup: Some noble man, who became interested in our heroine, decided to take advantage of the fact that the princes of Rhodolite were not around. Taking, against the girl's will, by the hand, he took her somewhere. But "Belle" was saved by Keith or Silvio or Gilbert.]

Chapter 1.Part 1/1

Obsidian is a military power that is planning to march on Rhodelite.

One of the members of the royal family who reigns at the center of the power is now staying in Rhodolite.

It was supposed to be a major incident that would shake the history of the world, but the prince in question took no notice of it at all, and today, with a fresh smile on his face, he freely walked around the court. And then, by chance or inevitability, I was spotted.

???: I found you.

A hand reaches out from behind me and holds me close.

His voice is gentle and calm, but my heart is beating wildly with alarm, and a cold sweat runs down my spine.

MC: You are ....

I turned around awkwardly, and, as expected, eyes the color of blood were right in front of me.

MC: ...Master Gilbert.

Gilbert: You look kind of pale, don't you?

Gilbert: Did he does something scary to you?

The fingertips covered by black gloves touch my cheek. I cringed at the surprisingly cold fingertips.

(....What should I do if I'm just called out?)

I take a breath to calm my raging heart and stare back into the red eyes.

MC: No, nothing...

Gilbert: Nothing ever happens, does it?

Smiling, Master Gilbert shifts his gaze from me to the aristocratic man next to me.

Gilbert: She's my... I don't have to tell you, do I?

Part 1/2

Master Gilbert only smiled cheerfully.

However, the noble man flinched and ran away without saying a word.

There was no sign of the man who had come to seduce me.

Gilbert: Haha, what did he imagines? I was going to say you were my friend.

(Perhaps he saved me?)

Even if this is true under the circumstances, I can never relax because I'm dealing with this Obsidian Prince.

(I know I shouldn't be prejudiced, but as far as this person is concerned, it's best to be wary)

MC: ....Thank you.

Gilbert: Do you think you might have been saved?

MC: No?

Gilbert: Of course. I was just looking for you." The "bug" were in the way, so I just got rid of him.

Taking his hand away from mine, Master Gilbert pulls out an envelope from inside his cloak.

MC: An invitation, is it?

It is not right that a Rhodolite nobleman would invite an Obsidian royal to a social gathering, or that Master Gilbert would so readily accept the invitation.

It is somehow disconcerting.

(I think there's something behind it, but maybe I'm thinking too much.)

MС: Why did you give this to me?

Gilbert: You don't know if I don't tell you?

MC:... Are you going to take me to the party?

Gilbert: I'm glad you're not incompetent and understand everything without explaining it all from 1 to 10.

Part 1/3

Gilbert: Ha ha, is that how you see it?

Master Gilbert's words are relentless, and my heart continues to beat a sickeningly fast beat.

Gilbert: It must be lonely to attend a party alone, isn't it?

Gilbert: And don't you think it's a bit unglamorous for one man to be out in a social setting alone?

MC: ...No, I don't think so. I think you are gorgeous enough.

Gilbert: Ha-ha, is that how you see me?

In my head, I formulate words that will allow me to refuse Master Gilbert's invitation.

If I were to become the companion of an enemy prince's party, I would first stand out.

The more public attention I attract, the more people will try to find out who I am.

In addition, the longer we spend together, the more likely I am to break down when acting as a daughter.

(I think this is exactly what they mean by "a hundred harms and not a single gain".)

MC: ... I'd like to ask Mr. Sariel about this.

I'm sure he'll be able to help you.

However, I couldn't think of a good refusal and once I tried to escape, his fresh smile deepened.

Gilbert: Because you're going to ask for advice on how to say no? Sure, why not? But I'll convince you.

MC: No, I can't be of any help...

Gilbert: It's sad, isn't it?

(.... No, I don't think I can get away with it)

MC: I am glad that Master Gilbert is here with us.

Gilbert: Liar.

The eyes the color of blood sharpened for a moment.

A chill ran down my spine, the kind of chill I'd never felt in my entire life.

Gilbert: If you have the most beautiful heart in the country, lying is not a good idea. Don't you think so?

МС:......

(My body is... shaking on its own)

Fear tickles his throat so much that he can't react to words that implicitly suggest "Belle."

Gilbert: I hate liars. It won't happen again, okay?

Gilbert: Well, let's go.

The pressure I felt disappears and breathing suddenly becomes easier.

(Master Gilbert doesn't like lying... On the flip side, it might mean that you can say whatever you think...)

Smiling cheerfully, he took my hand and started to walk away, but I stepped aside to show my resistance.

MC:...I don't like it.

MC: I don't want to go to the soiree.

Gilbert: ..Huh?

Part 1/4

(If I tell you my honest feelings, Master Gilbert may change his mind.)

It's a kind of bet.

Will he be dissatisfied or will he show his conscience?

As I waited for an answer, Master Gilbert looked into my face and...

Gilbert: Too bad, but I don't have a choice. Then I give up on you.

MC: ...Huh?

(...I didn't expect you to change your mind so easily)

The smile in front of me is much gentler than I had imagined.

Gilbert: Why do you look surprised? You don't like it, do you?

MC: Yes, but...

Gilbert: Then I'll just find another young lady.

My heart froze.

Gilbert: The noble's daughter, who is accompanied by the Prince of Obsidian, will naturally find herself in the line of fire.

Gilbert: Only the daughter should be blamed, but it's likely to lead to problems for the entire family.

Gilbert: You could be called a traitor, you can be probed for a true motive.

Gilbert: You have the generous protection of the princes, so you should be fine, but you don't like it, do you?

MC: Wait a minute! That's not what I'm talking about!

Gilbert: That's right. Who's going to be the ritual?/ That's what I'm talking about? Who's going to be the ritualist?

Gilbert: Yeah, but it's not like you're doing anything shameful. Humans are creatures of self-preservation first and foremost.

Gilbert: You don't have to look so guilty.

(...I have no choice in this situation.)

I have only known you for a short time, but Master Gilbert has already taken hold of my heart. I was confident that I would never refuse.

MC: I'll go. ...Let me go, please.

(It's beyond my strength... I can't compare to him.)

When I admitted defeat, Master Gilbert's smile brightened.

Part 1/5

After that, Master Gilbert talked to Mr. Sariel, and in no time at all, we were ready to go.

Tense and wary, I enter the suburban mansion.

When Master Gilbert entered the hall, the nobles who had been chatting and laughing collectively shut their mouths.

It is a wide variety of eyes directed at the prince of the great nation of Obsidian.

(... I think I stand out more than Master Gilbert)

Mysterious young lady escorted by an Obsidian prince. I want to hold my head up.

Gilbert: You look pale again, Miss Bunny?

MC: I'm fine.

Gilbert: You're so nervous, aren't you? Do you want me to hold your hand?

MC: No need...

Before I can refuse, he holds my hand.

There is no way I can veto Master Gilbert's words.

(Also, the way he's looking at me... Let's not worry about it too much anymore.)

(... Nevertheless...)

МС: Master Gilbert... Your hands are cold.

In the daytime, I thought when I was touched by something, but I felt cold even through my gloves.

There was no human warmth in it at all, it was so cold that it worried me.

Gilbert: They say a man with cold hands has a warm heart.

MC:.....🤨🙄

Gilbert: Why are you looking away? I haven't done anything bad to you yet.

(... Like you're doing right now.)

Gilbert: Miss Bunny, don't look so severe.

Gilbert intertwines his cold fingers with mine.

It's a very close connection, like that between two lovers.

Gilbert: You're my lover now... right?

#ikepri #ikemen prince #ikemen ouji #gilbert von obsidian #ikepri gilbert #ikemen gilbert #ikemen prince gilbert #ikepri translation

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heyitsbugette · 4 years

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Todobug: Fallen lover.

The spotted heroine was out with her team for a regular round of patrol, finding herself just a few meters from the girls to plan the rute alongside Chat Noir. She constantly ignored his attentions, but when he took her hand trying to kiss the back, with her opposite she invoked a lucky charm out of curiosity, winning a small spray bottle with which she sprayed on his feline friend.

──── Bad Kitty! Behave! Behave!

She exclaimed, spraying her partner, watching him contract through the water as if he were a small cat taking a bath, making her laugh mockingly next to the turtle hero who stayed next to them contracting against his stomach to laugh at the blonde’s childish reactions. Lately the heroes have gotten much closer as the meetings get more and more enjoyable, sometimes taking a few breaks to chat or joke with each other.

This was one of those days, being a fairly quiet time to afford that luxury that on rare occasions they could joke around. For today the only ones who were absent were Viperion, Roi Singe, and Pegase, but soon it would be their turn on the night patrol. And while both boys were organizing to cover ground next to Ladybug, it was that both Rena Rouge and Queen Bee looked puzzled at the initial duo of heroes at the same time while Ryuko sitting on a pile of bricks next to them sharpened her sword patiently without much interest.

It wasn't until the beautiful-looking blonde snorted as she touched up her lipstick that when she uttered a word, she broke the ice, paying attention to her reflection in the portable mirror that she carried with her even in battle. And at once her lips took on a little more color, she looked out of the corner of her eye at the heroine in a fox costume, ready to start conversation.

──── And ... Are you sure these two are just friends? Huh, I'm suspecting that the Ladybug's alleged boyfriend scandal is actually fake news of that infamous Alec Cataldi guy.

The blonde wasn't exactly discreet when she looked away from her mirror to turn and look skeptically at the dynamic duo fighting childishly as they calmed down to begin their part of the patrol, both walking away with Carapace jumping from roof to roof.

Instead, the young Japanese woman who calmly held her sword, settled into her seat crossing her legs with a quick movement. For a few thoughtful moments, she rested her gaze indifferently on her mate, while resting both hands on the handle of her sword, glancing sideways at the direction in which her superiors were leaving.

──── Believe it or not, she is in a relationship with Todoroki-san, and we must respect that, Queen Bee. It is not very honorable that you speak of him like this when he is not present to defend himself.

It was her answer said with a little bit of hostility, since clearly the foreigner hated gossip and to people talking cowardly behind them back. She did not know the guy in question well enough to consider him a friend, but he had been cordial in those events in which their parents had coincided.

Of course, it was a shock to learn that he was the mysterious boy Chat Noir was constantly complaining about standing between him and “his lady”. However, she couldn't blame them for their relationship being now seen in the public eye, after how an annoying low morality TV presenter had exposed the couple without their consent, robbing them of the opportunity to reveal their relationship when they were ready. It was so unpleasant, but she remembered with satisfaction how the Ladyblogger reported such an invasion of privacy on her blog, causing so much backlash to the man.

Some karma was dealt after that.

And although her words were almost interrupted by a fox lady in a bright orange suit, far from being annoyed, she continued her own business by returning her attention to the weapon even as she paid attention to the girl who questioned her words.

──── As much as I hate the shit Cataldi pull on them, the guy don't give me good vibes... I mean he's stupidly cold even with her. It seems he doesn't even care that Ladybug is in love with him!

The fox's heroine commented annoyed, while the blonde bee buzzed with excitement, agreeing with the words of her comrade. Neither of them seemed to believe Endeavor's son as the one for Ladybug, the national angel of France.

──── I know damn right the guy is hot, I'm not blind. But he's so... Uninteresting that he loses his charm. I think we all agree that our little bug can easily get someone better, my Adrikins is dying for her and I don't blame him, I don't even know who to be jealous of.

The blonde commented in a playful tone while she fixed some strands of hair ruffled by the wind, and putting on the final touches of the lipstick with her hand mirror, she closed the end at once to cross her arms later. It was obvious that her words were anything but kind, because even when Rena agreed that her heroine should seek someone else, it was equally clear that she did not approve of being so cruel when speaking of the aspiring hero. Chloe, on the other hand, was still taking small steps to be friendlier, but the change was gradual and she didn't avoid releasing hurtful comments on rare occasions.

No one refuted anything, it was not worth it and among the three they ended up leaving finally once their rest ended, ready to resume their patrol, perhaps hopefully catching up with the rest of their teammates.

Todoroki Shoto was just leaving the Le Grand Paris, where he was staying with his family, his father apparently had work pending in Paris and they would be spending the summer outside of Japan.

He keeping silent and walking beside his older brother for as long as their paths coincided, after all he did not plan to follow him any longer; he had his own plans going. He had reserved a table in a restaurant that was close to her girlfriend's home, clearly paying with his old man's credit card with the bonus of bothering him, and of course thanks to his action he ended up earning a tremendous shout from the older one, but that did not matter, he just wanted to pamper his beloved.

──── So.. Have any plans, kid?

Asked the curious albino while chilling at the side of his brother. He and his penpal Luka Couffaine would hang out at the mall and then go to the disco store, it was clear that he wanted to see if the youngest of the family was free to accompany them.

──── I'm going out with my girlfriend once she comes back from patrolling with her team.

He answered calmly, taking out his phone when he felt it vibrate for a few seconds, surely his sister had called him to scold him for what he did with the credit card, but from seeing the angry expression on the older man's face he could say that it was worth it worth the scolding.

──── Ah? So, are you're really dating? I thought you were joking when you told us.

The college student spoke with a little laugh, noticing how his sibling looked at him confused. Suddenly the punk looking teenager gave him a discreet push with his shoulder to shut him up, an action that made him finally react.

And it was not for less, he had really been surprised to hear the albino's words, which shows with his changing facial expression. And while the double quirked teen questioned his words with his typical seriousness, it was remarkable for the man, for his slipt he keeps laughing nervously and even uncomfortably at the heterochromatic stare.

──── And… why did you think that?

──── Hey, chill... I didn't mean it like that, but you guys don't really seem like a couple. You know, you don't show it much. B-But I know you must love her a lot, of course!

Realizing how insensitive his words were, as well as how prejudiced he sounded when saying them, Natsuo ended up hiding behind a certain guitarist who shook his head gently and placed his arm between the two boys in a crude attempt at protection in what they both looked like. Instead of getting angry, the half redhead hung his head in surprise, grimacing seconds later, looking at them this time with a frown, clearly offended and annoyed.

──── Don't take it the wrong way, Shoto. You know that Natsuo can be somewhat naive and reckless, it was not his intention to offend you.

──── See you tomorrow, Couffaine…

Without saying anything else, he turns away into the flower shop, leaving behind the guys with whom he had had a bitter revelation. It was the only thing he said, annoyingly walking away in the opposite direction. Didn't they really seem like a real couple? The young man knew that he was not very expressive with his feelings, but he never thought it would be so bad. He continued his walking now without much encouragement, looking even more serious than usual if that was possible, but he was still determined to prove to himself that Natsuo was wrong. Perhaps if he made an effort to make his night with her girlfriend perfect, he could show his love for her, although it was difficult for him to show his feelings. But that did not mean that he wouldn't do his best to try.

So, he continued walking until he reached the picturesque place, entering and buying a bouquet of flowers, cheering up little by little. He left the place much calmer, even motivated, eager to meet his dear ladybug; but it was not until he heard three female voices talking about him and his lovely girfriend without any hesitation, that without being able to avoid it with strangeness he raised his face to watch the heroines speak from the roof of the building animatedly, being the blonde the loudest among the three.

Little by little he felt worse and worse with each word. Was he such a bad boyfriend? Marinette thought the same as her friends?

Once the heroines left the Japanese boy sat on one of the benches, leaving his bouquet of flowers beside him, running his hands over his hair. Maybe they were right, maybe he was giving less to the relationship than his girlfriend deserved, maybe he was throwing her into the arms of another guy with his attitude. Suddenly he felt an upset stomach just thinking about it, it wasn't a nice feeling.

At the same time his discomfort was escalating and frustrated, he bent down looking at the bouquet of roses with an unsatisfied gaze, remembering how the cat hero used to give her a flower every day during the time that his relationship with her was a secret to the public. He remembered the jealousy he repressed every time Chat Noir tried to seduce his heroine, every flirtatious and cheesy nickname said in the midst of battles, as even when she rejected him, he was still motivated to win her love.

He recalled the mistrust he had for Luka when he mentioned his feelings for a certain baker's daughter, but he quickly dispelled his insecurities when he knew that Couffaine would never try anything with her. In his words he remembered how the eldest simply said that “her melody had found her own rhapsody,” whatever that meant. It was much worse when he find out about the past feelings his Maribug used to have towards Adrien Agreste, but detesting him made him feel guilty, the boy was also too kind for his own good.

He needed advice, it was not a good sign to be so insecure or jealous. But he was just a confused teenager in his first relationship, they couldn't blame him for his inexperience.

Todoroki Shoto, Memories. A couple days ago.

During finals a certain pigtail lady had sneaked to Japan with the equine kwami’s help, of course, she missed her long-distance boyfriend as much as she knows he missed her too, and surprising her lover from behind she didn’t hesitate into hugging him sideways, laughing and playing with their noses in an soft Eskimo kiss. A couple minutes later, he took her by the waist just to give his girlfriend room to sit on his lap, while both kwamis hovered curiously around the room towards one of the hero magazines.

──── Not that it bothers me for you to come see me, actually I enjoy it, but what are you doing here?

──── I needed a break ... If I hear Lila say how she introduced you to Ladybug again, I will lose my patience, mon trésor.

With a snort the young woman let herself lean on her lover's shoulder, listening to him laugh vaguely with that unmistakable grimace on his lips, without a doubt the double quirk teen was just as entertained of the situation than he should be.

──── She's still into her fantasies? Should I be scared?

──── Not worth it.

In a mocking tone the eldest played with his beloveds’ lips, approaching to touch them tenderly just to move away when his muse deigned to reciprocate. From one moment to the next, he earned her frown, and it was when he saw her pout that he finally let himself be caught, feeling the plump and pink lips against his, sharing the cherry flavor of her usual chapstick.

When closing his eyes in duo with his sun sunshine girl, one of his hands fixed on her cheek tenderly as he passed his thumb over the blush, while in an ephemeral separation to discharge his heavy breath in a second, they again kissed again. Much more shy tan before.

──── Please come tomorrow… If not, who's going to kick my ass in Ultimate Mecha Strike?

Little could he know that his scattered thoughts made Gabriel Agreste smile with discretion, as he, after sending one of his models to their wardrobe test in the care of their star designers, was that he hung up the call by video-chat once he delegated the activities of the day to Nathalie and went calmly towards the portrait of his beloved Emilie, caressing gracefully the illustration on her lips, in a silent conversation with himself.

He would have another chance to save her.

──── Oh, disappointment and jealousy ~ Powerful feelings from the hand of the lover that will bring my victory ... Simply poetic. Get ready, Ladybug! It will be the person who has your very own heart who will bring your defeat to me. So, fly my little Akuma, and possess Endeavor's son!

Ignorant of what was happening, were his racing heartbeats and his concern about losing the girl he had fallen in love with, without notice he caught the attention of a certain villain who triumphantly prepare one of his akumas to leave outside of his lair as he walked in the direction of his butterfly window ready for send his tiny henchman in search of the tormented teenager boy whose peace was disturbed. Humming, Hawkmoth smiled poisonously, capturing in his hands the tiny being whom he filled with negative energy, and in the end commanding them with his stick for catch his target.

Earlier when news of the heroine's romance leaked, he simply didn't rush into acting. He wasn't an idiot, he knew how dangerous it was to villainize the wrong people at the wrong time, he learned it the hard way with certain failed villains. But now, it was the perfect timing for him.

The akuma fluttered from the sky until found the source of such intense negative feelings, it could feel them for miles, and when the time came it was easier to be able to catch him without being noticed. Without missing the opportunity to melt into the bouquet of roses that the brokean hearted boy held so sadly, linking without opportunity to fight in a forced communication with the most feared villain in Paris at the moment when the butterfly communicator managed to get a surprised sigh out of him.

──── Greetings, Heartstroke. I am your friend, Hawkmoth. I have felt your fear of losing the love of your heroine, as everyone sees you as an obstacle. I promise to give you the power to punish whoever dares to take her away from you, and prove them wrong... But there is something you must do for me in return.

His words were poisonous, said with false concern and artificial charisma, selling to his victim the idea that would solve their problems once and for all, but the minor's doubt internally annoyed the criminal, he hated when his victims became resistant.

──── No, I won't give you her miraculous…

──── Don't be naive, son. Every Ladybug is destined for her Black Cat. Creation and destruction cannot live without the other. I offer you the opportunity to free her from her destiny. And what do you say? Do you accept my offer?

The half albino quickly covered his ears, while biting his trembling lip closed at the same time, he closed his eyes, unable to resist the intense connection with Hawkmoth any longer. But with each spoken word he felt increasingly furious, helpless, more insecure. To Paris, he was just a busybody, someone who kept Ladybug away from her one true love, the one who truly cared about her; as with every threatening mail they insinuated that he should get away and look for someone else, that he should stop confusing Lady luck's feelings. He couldn't handle it anymore, he was only human after all, and naturally he was selfish.

Selfish for wanting a future with her.

──── It will be a pleasure, Hawkmoth.

With a simple scaling flash of light, the bicolor eyed boy’s body was enveloped until it disappeared into a new metamorphosis, a different appearance drifted away from his usual looks.

Goodbye Todoroki Shoto, let's meet Heartstroke.

#crakship #todoroki shoto x marinette dupain cheng #todobug #mlb x bnha #bnha x mlb #crackship #marinette ships #alya sugar

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