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walkingstackofbooks · 10 months

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DS9 4x01 The Way of the Warrior thoughts (I'm re-watching, so beware spoilers for future episodes!)

(11/06/2023)

Kira looks so elegant! <3

There's something unsettling about Bashir carrying a phaser not a medkit idk

"On three. 1... 2..." why wait so long, just call it!

It's such a good idea to use Odo like this... Shame they didn't carry on with these drills!

"Constable, it just occurred to me that if I knew in advance how just long it'll take them for to catch you during the next drill? Well, let's just say you and I could share a substantial profit." Quark really is incorrigible XD

I hadn't even noticed Sisko's hair cut, the baldness just suits him

"How far is Cestus Three?" "Eight weeks at maximum warp." "To see a real baseball game, it might be worth the trip." I love how much Sisko loves baseball

"Dax to Sisko" The way Sisko and Kasidy both pause and share a silent acknowledgement that they are both just are so done with this sort of interruption

This Martok's a changeling, right?

Yamok sauce, Julian? I thought that was a Cardassian thing. Has someone been broadening your palate?

"Look how they're watching the room. It's like they're picking out targets." Well you're actually not wrong there, Quark.

Love Julian trying so hard to flick the pea XD

Martok insisting on that blood test and cutting his own hand - how did he do that? Is this the earliest scene of a changeling faking the test? Were blood tests basically useless from their inception?

"Because Malko's not real." Oh Kira

I love Jadzia trying to teach Kira to have some fun (and just seeing them together), but I'm pretty certain she's going about it the wrong way. Think about what Kira will enjoy, Jadzia, not you!

"And as for your underdeveloped imagination, I prescribe a strict regimen of exercise starting immediately." Jadzia, that look was so sultry. Oh, 90s, couldn't you have just left the implication that Jadzia would like to exercise with Kira, and not with some holosuite boy...

Huh, hadn't realised Garak knowing Klingon was canon. But also, while I love hearing different languages, It always bugs me that I can never be sure why universal translators aren't consistent

"Let me guess. You're either lost or desperately searching for a good tailor." Garak, are those really the cutting remarks you're about to boast about to Bashir??

"Perhaps they decided they just didn't like me?" "Not like you? Impossible." XD that is such couple banter

"You know where to find me." Sisko's so soft with Kasidy :3

I can't describe how little I am looking forward to Worf turning up I'm afraid. Imma try to like him though

Quark's distaste at Worf's prune juice order XD

"It's like poker, but with pointed tips." No, Miles, darts is nothing like poker XD Good attempt though, 10/10 for effort!

"He kissed me!" "He's supposed to kiss you!" This is such a fun scene, but also, Jadzia, stop making Kira do romantic holosuites! You're only reinforcing her idea that they're awful! (Though I do feel like Kira is enjoying being outraged)

Ok, Jadzia's smitten with Worf straight away it seems.J

Jadzia walking in and giving Worf fighting advice, what an icon 😘

"It would not be a fair match." "I'll go easy on you." Knew she was gonna say that, but it's a classic line for a reason

The old Klingon going "I suppose you have the right to know." - the scene's now going to cut to Worf raging about the reason we're not yet told?

Ah, no, cut scene to Worf brooding. Checks out.

Gotta love Odo

"I am not interested in your conclusions." Worf, that was a flounce!

This is so complex - Klingons attacking Cardassia to oppose the Dominion, while being themselves manipulated by the Dominion to upset the balance of the Alpha Quadrant.

M: "Believe me, Captain, we have no wish to antagonise your people." S: "Then call off the attack." M: "I will consult with Gowron. You will have his decision within the hour." >>>>>> "As soon as General Martok beamed back to his ship, he sent a message to the Klingon fleet. It was just one word. In'Cha." "Begin." "The Klingon ships are going to warp." ...."Straight to the Cardassian Empire." Of course, Martok's got his proof that this will split the Klingon-Federation Alliance, so the sooner they attack the better.

Interesting that not warning Cardassians is worrying to Julian

"Which means we need a third option." ... Something something Garak? My fingers are crossed!

Yes! Garak! :D

"Bring your tailor's kit." HAH

Worf's hesitance and actually everything about this whole scene is perfect > We interpret Garak's constant "I just heard it while tailoring" as an amusing total falsehood, but what if this sort of game that Sisko's playing actually did happen in other scenario's and Garak is actually never lying about where he heard info XD

Dukat???

"We can stand here all day reminding ourselves just how much we hate each other, but you don't have the time." Gotta love some disdainful Garak.

G: "You will have nothing." "Except my honour." Okay, sure, this is compelling - Worf being the most honourable Klingon is valid

O: "I know how much you miss the Enterprise, but I'm sure they'll be building a new one soon." "It will not be the same." Okay, I see the autistic Worf headcanon too

"I got to hand it to you, Quark. You really know your to make your customers feel welcome." XD

S: "I guess our timing hasn't been too good." K:"No. No, it's been terrible." I loved the way Kasidy said that, I'm just really fond of her (and how much she liked Sisko but also puts herself first)

*kiss* "Don't get killed." I do love her <3

B: "I won't tell the Romulans if you won't." THAT WINK. Sisko really just winked at Julian?? Why do I not remember this?!

"Two decades of peace with the Klingons, and it all comes down to this." Oof. And Sisko's expression, knowing the future is all on his shoulders right now. Gosh.

"Well that should make the trip home a little more interesting." I don't know how to describe Sisko's attitude here but I am here for it!

"I find this whole procedure offensive." "And I find you offensive." Excellent, I want more Julian speaking his mind to Dukat, please

Jadzia and Sisko making bets about Dukat and then making it so obvious how little respect they have for him. We love to see it.

"Captain, are you aware that there's a Klingon on your bridge?" Dukat's delivery is so excellent though, he has some great lines

Garak! Though always a bit bittersweet to see him knowing there's no chance Julian will be in the scene 😅

This non- federation alien bonding Garak and Quark have got going is brilliant. The root beer metaphor - I can't.

Q: "Now what?" G: "Well, I can't be sure, of course, but my guess would be Klingons."

"They've got friends." *pans to entire fleet* Welp...

"Doctor, if a Klingon were to kill me, I'd expect nothing less than an entire opera on the subject." Hah!

I need to see more Odo-Julian friendship tbh. It's underlooked.

*Rom has stolen Quark's disruptor* Q: "I will kill him." O: "With what?" - Odo's smirk! XD

Seeing Garak and Dukat together is always so fun

And suddenly, there's a Julian with a phaser! Looking weirdly sure of himself.

Kira getting stabbed and STILL taking out the Klingon - the most badass of badasses > (the script on Chakoteya says "Kira is honourably stabbed in the back" and that made me chuckle)

"Captain, your shields have been weakened, your station boarded, and more Klingon ships are on their way. Surrender while you can." "I don't think so. My shields are holding, your boarding parties are contained, and my reinforcements are closer than yours. You're facing a war on two fronts. Is that what you really want?" Sisko is the coolest of cats

Martok being so angry - "We will not surrender! We can still win!" - is where his changeling act first slips; he knows he's lost for now but he is still trying to rile Gowron into doing his bidding.

I forget that Gowron is so witchy sometimes. Is that just me?

"I thought I could take the uniform, wrap it around that pain and toss them both away. But it doesn't work like that. Running may help for a little while, but sooner or later the pain catches up with you, and the only way to get rid of it is to stand your ground and face it." Man, Sisko. No-one talks like you do.

W: "But wearing that uniform must remind you of what you have lost." S: "Sometimes. But it also reminds me of what I've gained, and who I am." I LOVE HIM

"Poor Garak. Dukat's a hero, and Garak's still stuck in his tailor shop hemming trousers." I'm sure no-one else was thinking about Garak, Julian XD

#ds9 4x1 #ds9 the way of the warrior #andi watches ds9 #WSB

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fujimilovers · 2 years

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star trek. the whole franchise

mental anguish on having to make literally all these decisions 😭 havent seen voyager or enterprise yet

favorite male character: for tos its gotta be the one and only spock its no contest. tng its data smile and ds9 its my friend sisko!

favorite female character: tos uhura of COURSE shes everything. umm tng ill say guinan because i loved every scene she was in. ds9 KIRA my loveeee

least favorite character: for tos mudd. every episode that had mudd irritated me due to him. tng barclay. it was bad for his intro episode single-handedly bringing hr back into starfleet. ds9 i wanna say dukat. he is villain ever but im going with that priest guy kira has like a relationship with cause i dont like him.

prettiest character: i think itll be obvious that its uhura and deanna and kira. i like them badly

funniest character: SPOCK is so underrated in his comedy moments because it’s like not frequent but its always so funny without fail. Q is tngs comedy character like its the best thing everytime he shows up.

favorite season: tos’s season 2 ummm tng ill go season 4? and ds9 season 3 was the last i saw

favorite episode: classic amok time the most influential episode in tos. tng its darmok its just a solid episode. ds9 so far the wire was really really good and i enjoyed it a lot

favorite romantic ship: like spock and kirk are just married to me its barely a ship. data and geordi too. for ds9 though quark and odo are my favs cause i love a comedy

favorite family ship: ummm all i can think of is data and geordi as like wesleys uncles basically they have that vibe when they talk to him either together or individually i dont even have any other family ships

favorite friend ship: spock and uhura. i love their little interactions in the original series and it helps theyre two of my favorites in tos. umm tng i like riker and worf being friends and ds9 kira and siskos relationship is my favorite thing ever i love those two

worst ship: ive never seen a tos ship that sucked but tng i dont like tasha and data just cause its like really limited. and ngl im an odo kira hater. i love them as besties but them in a relationship doesnt appeal to me at all

#my Star Trek i smile #i need to watch more of it my wife loves ds9 and wants me to see it so bad

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a-stitch-in-time-and-space · 3 years

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ok i agree w/ everything you said about those ladies besides, lwaxana gives s*xual pr*dator vibes and that is why i dont like her.

I can see that reading for sure and all things are subjective. I do strongly disagree, but hey, fandom is a space for that! Super chill.

to go a little more into this though, since it's not really so much about what any of us feel, but more about how we engage with female characters (and I'll use your example of why you don't like her - not to drag you, your dislike is totally fair, she's fictional, she won't mind, but just because it's a single line that kinda puts her in a box. And not a very nice box to be in, that's for sure...)

a little tw for mild references to some of the shadier writings of star trek vis a vis sexual assault and otherwise sexist and/or strange relationship dynamics

okay so you know how Riker has like. two? episodes that're suuuper shady in terms of his treatment of women and the rest of the time it's pretty chill. and he's one of my favourite characters, but I have gotta skip those episodes, because whatever they were trying to do, they Did Not Succeed - and there's a reading of him that incorporates those elements and if you do you've gotta contend with the character being quite probably someone who's assaulted women.

or how Worf at times espouses sexist shit that makes me roll my eyes outta my head and you're either gonna say "I don't fucking like this character" (and again, totally fair, I've seen people who don't Vibe) or you've gotta find a way to make this work for you if you want to explore that character - or both of those things, you can dislike a character and want to write about them

Or some of the weird shit the writers have Geordi do (which, Geordi is my favourite character in TNG, but sometimes ya gotta breathe and go "the writers are fucking dumb, the writers are fucking dumb")

or - the spiritual successor of Geordi, Julian Bashir (my favourite character from DS9 - clearly I have a Type). You've gotta go: This is stupid writing. I can make it work with my own read of the character, but first and foremost The Writing Is Dumb!

Or hell, Q - since we're talking about Lwaxana and I assume her interactions with Picard and Odo, let's not forget to mention Q, both in TNG and on VOY with Janeway - some of the more urgh-inducing scenes between Q and Janeway are, I think, meant to be charming and funny? And I'm a massive QCard shipper here, okay, I actually vibe so hard with him as an alien who doesn't get shit about boundaries (this mostly with Picard, with Janeway I have gone: "Hm. This doesn't feel good" a fair few times).

or how the writers of DS9 had Garak be in a very uncomfortable relationship with Ziyal, who was a teenager, then not a teenager within much too short a span of episodes (and actress changes)

or Quark. Remember the episode in which Quark tries to get Kira's likeness so he can put it in a sex-fantasy roleplay that she did not consent to? or how there are two cold opens where his female employees are told they have to sleep with him to keep their jobs

or like... Neelix (okay, I am not a fan of Neelix anyway, but for people who are fans, there are times when you've gotta wonder what in the heck the writers are thinking - not the character, the writers)

what I'm trying to say with the post I wrote is that this same graciousness isn't offered to female characters - especially female characters of colour, but in the case of Lwaxana

she's older, she's an ongoing female guest star, she's very (sometimes uncomfortably) sexual towards especially Picard and for a short while Odo, before they become really good friends.

she's also in-text several times in positions in which men are trying to control her (the episode where she gets kidnapped, the episode in which the guy who's married her is a misogynist) and she uses or tries to use her "wiles" to escape these situations.

She's really more of a faded beauty who's putting a pressure onto her daughter (in a rare interesting, complex, fraught mother-daughter dynamic that I loooove) and refuses to let go of the past, because (and here we get into my read, but mildly supported by canon) it's the only way she seems to have learned how to be loved and have relevance. She's terrified of letting that go, because where does she go next, without everything that's defined her? which is why her final episode with Odo is actually so powerful to me.

Picard is never threatened by her in-text. He's not massively fond of her (at first, she grows on him... like a mold), he would prefer to avoid her, but he's not in a powerless situation here. She undoubtedly makes him uncomfortable at times in a way that - like some of the above examples have made me go "mmmmokay" but certainly not the worst example of this in the writing.

With Odo I also don't like how some of her interactions with him go in the first episode they're in together. But once they're friends and you see how easily she accepts him ("I can swim" is always going to be one of my favourite little chuckle lines) that no longer applies. He clearly likes her and enjoys her company. There's something incredibly lifelong platonic partners in their easiness with each other.

You can argue in both cases (and argue well) that there are scenes that are kinda sus. But there are lots of scenes that offer you depth of character. She's not one-note. She's got off moments.

Some of these guys (and others - I haven't watched as much TOS and Voyager so I don't want to misrepresent anyone, but I feel sure that Tom Paris has made me squint once or twice + I've not seen Enterprise yet) have whole episodes that make me shudder.

It's really - within this fandom for sure - open how we interpret characters and I'm not saying anyone needs to read Lwaxana like this or change their minds and like her.

The point of the post is not to say you have to like any of these characters. Or even to say you have to engage with them regardless of how you vibe or don't vibe with them. It's just... I have listened to several up-until-then-enjoyable deeply analytical podcasts where at some point one of the (guys... always guys... I'm guessing white) makes a sneering comment completely dismissing their value within the series.

My point is that Lwaxana (since we're on her) has value as a character within the Trek universe. She added something important. She's not everyone's cup of tea, but it's a big series, we're not all guaranteed to like everyone.

and in the original post I used "shrill" and "cringy" on purpose, because those are descriptors I've heard. And they are absolutely rooted in misogynist dismissals of female characters no matter what shape they take (Keiko, Lwaxana, Michael, and Ezri are radically different from each other and yet all easily brushed aside regardless of screentime, personality, show, age, role/job).

I'm not making points about having to engage with or like characters. I'm just saying we need to be aware of how easily we specifically look down our noses at female characters (and specifically female characters of colour - apologies, this was just because we were talking about Lwaxana, but some of the shit I've heard about especially Michael and Keiko have made me want to bang my head against a wall... or other peoples heads against walls... you know, for a nice change)

so how much sympathy or analysis of behaviour is afforded to female characters vs their male peers. What judgements are we making and how do they compare to our readings of their male counterparts?

sidenote: I hate using male and female about star trek, my brain is just like "why anyone gender? why do this? you're in space? there are aliens? y'all can't chill with the binary for two fucking seconds?"

different post

#lwaxana troi #tng #ds9 #voy #st: tng #st: ds9 #st: voy #star trek disc horse #I don't want to make statements on TOS or Disco guys - I HAVE seen them I just don't rememberrrr too much #i have entirely avoided any and all opinions by white cis dudes on adira and gray btw because I have F E A R #they're not female characters tho but like... tangentially I'm thinking hooboy about them as well #anon just wanna reiterate I'm not telling you to change your opinion or feelings about her

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onimiman · 3 years

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DS9 and Star Wars Rebels for the show ask?

For DS9

my all-time ultimate fave character: tie between Elim Garak and Gul Dukat

a character I didn’t used to like but now do: Nog

a character I used to like but now don’t: I can’t think of any that fit this category

a character I’m indifferent about: Miles O’Brien

a character who deserved better: Damar; he should have lived to guide Cardassia out of the wreckage that the Dominion brought to his planet so that they could move away from the practices that made them into the society that enslaved Bajor

a ship I’ve never been able to get into: Odo/Kira

a ship I’ve never been able to get over: Can’t think of one

a cute, low-key ship: Rom/Leeta

an unpopular ship but I still enjoyed it: N/A

a ship that was totally wrong and never should have happened: Worf/Ezri Dax; even they knew it wasn’t to be just because Ezri had Jadzia’s memories

my favourite storyline/moment: gotta be a tie between Sisko compromising his morals in capturing Michael Eddington in “For the Uniform” and tricking the Romulans into aiding the Federation and Klingons against the Dominion in “In the Pale Moonlight”

a storyline that never should have been written: tie between “Move Along Home” and “Profit and Lace”

my first thoughts on the show: started off interesting and had promise with a broader range of more interesting characters than TNG or even TOS

my thoughts now: a triumph of storytelling that shows that you can break out of the creative mold of previously established Star Trek without having to utterly ruin it (lookin’ at you, Discovery and Picard)

For Star Wars: Rebels:

my all-time ultimate fave character: DARTH MAAAAUUUULLLLL! (the opening of Duel of the Fates plays in my head as I type that)

a character I didn’t used to like but now do: Ahsoka Tano, but that’s more of a carryover from her time in TCW

a character I used to like but now don’t: Thrawn; he had elements early on of his Zahn-esque writing, but overtime, he just became an uninteresting Disney villain

a character I’m indifferent about: Sabine Wren

a character who deserved better: Thrawn; he should have been written better, he should have had Zahn actually write for him

a ship I’ve never been able to get into: Kanan/Hera; I don’t care enough about either of them on their own to begin with

a ship I’ve never been able to get over: nada

a cute, low-key ship: none in this show

an unpopular ship but I still enjoyed it: nada

a ship that was totally wrong and never should have happened: no one’s interesting or subversive enough in this show to make me feel that way

my favourite storyline/moment: Kanan’s sacrifice; the only time this show was ever truly interesting when Darth Maul wasn’t around

a storyline that never should have been written: the introduction of the tentacle space whales, because then I’d love to see how the fuck the writers would have finished off this series that didn’t involve Thrawn getting defeated in that way

my first thoughts on the show: kind of uninteresting drek that I hoped would get better

my thoughts now: no, it just ended up being worse than I thought, especially when it came to Maul and Thrawn’s defeats

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