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bigskydreaming · 3 years

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IGN’s recent Bat-focused article (Batman: What Does Red Hood Need to Do to Get A Good Story?) praises fanfic writers and also is an amazing critique of how stagnant Jason has become under recent DC management and I’m so surprised at how good it is and how well thought out the solutions were

Hmmm. I just looked it up and I mean, I’m not trying to start anything but I both agree and disagree? Like, it makes some points for sure, I mean, its not like its saying things that I haven’t said a thousand times about Dick, like.....these characters need to be allowed access to a full range of emotions, both good and bad, in order to be fully fleshed out, so I mean yes on that premise alone I absolutely agree this is as true for Jason as it is for Dick or anyone else.

Tbh my only real criticism of the piece is it thinks Jason exists in a particular predicament the other characters aren’t in as well. And that I just don’t agree with, like they kinda lost me a bit with their first paragraph:

His complexities and moral ambiguity make him a compelling and distinct character among his more strait-laced Robin-brothers. Sadly, the character has seen little growth since his rage-filled reintroduction into comics. The ‘former Robin becomes a villain’ idea was enough for DC to coast on for a while but since rejoining the heroes, Red Hood has done little else.

First off, this may just be me being pedantic but I’m ALWAYS going to go fetch a grain of salt before continuing reading anything that pits Jason against his brothers in a war of his moral ambiguity against their strait-lacedness. Because to me, that’s just a fundamentally shallow view of the Batfam that caters to the idea that they each must have their own distinct niche in order to be fully viable individual characters, when a) no, and b) they don’t fit neatly into the niches people keep trying to slot them into and it never ends well for anybody.

Like Jason is morally ambiguous in a lot of ways too, yes, but umm, even if we assume that the writer is only speaking of Dick, Tim and Damian, we’re talking a guy who beat the Joker to death with his bare hands and has ten assassins and mercenaries on his speed dial and who co-led the Outsiders, a guy who was deeply immersed in weighing the pros and cons of getting revenge for his father by getting Captain Boomerang killed and is forever being DMed by Ra’s because he’s convinced he can get Tim to say He Has Some Points Actually, and the kid who was an assassin with a body count by age ten and who has struggled constantly ever since his debut to define his OWN personal view of morality that is not wholly predicated on what he was taught by any single individual.

And this is a big part of where I part ways with the article, because I think it falls into the same trap that a lot of people do by believing fanfic is inherently better by doing the same thing from just a different angle. Fanfic CAN be better than the canon, I absolutely believe that, I believe it is at times, but to do so, it has to like, BE BETTER. It has to do things differently, and not just paint a slightly different veneer over the same things. Like, pedantic though it might be, I outlined the above issue because its a mode of thinking the canon absolutely falls into again and again, and just like the writer of that article themselves, like....I think fandom as a whole is no different?

Like, yes there are great stories about Jason out there, some writers have done great and interesting things with him, but that doesn’t mean there’s not a huge trend in fandom of doing the exact same thing I see here.....which is honestly a huge part of the exact same problem the article is decrying canon for......LIMITING Jason (and all the Batfam) by reducing them and their stories to finite niches as a way of spotlighting them as different from their siblings.....except they’re not that different! And that’s okay! They don’t have to be! Families can have lots in common, families DO have lots in common due to like.....shared variables during their formative years.

I mean Jason was heavily influenced by environmental factors in how and where he grew up before he ever met Batman, but like the article goes into itself, he was no less influenced by Bruce himself as his father figure.....which is something he absolutely has in common with his siblings, thus its not hard at all to see how his siblings could have similar complexities and moral struggles that stem from trying to reconcile Bruce’s influence with the many other things and people that have influenced their childhoods.

And similarly, while the article is dead-on about Jason’s stagnancy....this is something that applies in equal measure to the rest of his family, because they’re all facing the same issues in terms of how DC views and utilizes them, and fandom as much as it likes to condemn DC for doing just that....frequently does the same thing. Like, Jason’s stuck in canon, absolutely......but Dick keeps being popped out into his own microcosm to experience a couple years of stories that essentially turn him into completely different characters isolated from every communal part of his character’s history, and then ERASE everything that’s happened at the end of each of these stories and reset him to square one.....and that’s just a different kind of stagnancy that again, still never allows for actual character progression or development. Tim has LITERALLY been regressed back to Robin, like a hard reset that’s its own kind of stagnancy and Damian has had years of character development upended just to kick him back to where he started, effectively strip away all the connections he’s developed at least in any meaningful way, etc.....and the same holds true for Babs and Cass and Steph and even Bruce himself IMO, in a lot of ways.

Its absolutely a problem, but its a problem that extends far beyond just Jason even if he is a great example of it. And its also a problem that extends into fic itself, and that’s why I don’t agree with a lot of the conclusions that article draws beyond just the fundamental “these characters need to be allowed access to a full range of emotions.”

Yes. That. That right there, THAT I think is crucial, but I think that writer needed to widen the scope a little to take in the full impact of what that actually MEANS for the characters....so as to not accidentally repeat the same problem they’re being critical of by essentially arguing for a full range of emotions for Jason....while still defining or viewing Jason through a finite lens of “the more morally ambiguous Bat character, at least as compared to his brothers.”

Because its that last part that’s so detrimental, because it seems like such a little thing at first, until you realize that essentially its just putting a ceiling, a cap on how far those full ranges of emotions can be expressed. Like the problem with Dick Grayson in canon and fanon is NOT that he can’t be written with a full range of emotions.....its that his character absolutely can encompass a wide range of opinions and viewpoints and emotional stances from “I don’t believe in killing as a first option” to “I absolutely can, will, and have beaten a damn clown to death for joking about murdering my brother”.....and he can still walk away as Dick Grayson after expressing both those things, because his character is big enough to include them both. HE’S not limited as a character, its canon writers and fandom writers that both heap artificial limitations of their OWN on him, say that his character is so defined in such a specific way that there’s no way for the latter expression of his character to actually be IN character.....and the fatal flaw here is fully fleshed out characters are never just one thing. They don’t fit in niches anymore than people do, and notice the problems we all run into when we try and pigeon hole people as being just one thing, like humans can’t be contradictory or act against their own self-interest or be hypocritical or evolve or even regress past prior viewpoints....basically, any time you try and sum up a human being in one line, no matter how accurate that description is, there’s still SOME things that are going to be left out of that picture.

Now, these things don’t always have to matter that much, like if I look at a serial killer and say that’s a serial killer, like, I might be leaving out of the picture that once he helped an old lady across the street and didn’t kill her and he doesn’t even know why, and I for one, simply do not care that I leave that out of the picture. Its irrelevant to the big picture for me. I can acknowledge that it adds a smidgen of nuance to that particular picture and then go yeah but also I don’t care, nuance denied.

But in terms of fictional characters, these things that get left in the discard pile when we try and sum up characters as just one thing, like, they can be hugely significant, because characters unlike real people, are simply WHAT WE MAKE OF THEM. That stuff that’s been left out of the big picture look at that character because its stuff most people to DEFINE what that character looks like have deemed irrelevant....its still there, and still perfectly relevant for anyone who wants to pick that stuff up and make something of it, use it to change the overall picture or even just point to ways and places that picture can absolutely encompass and include these other elements and STILL fundamentally be that same picture, that same character.

And this isn’t to say that characters can never be written out of character, its to say that usually IMO what ACTUALLY makes the difference between something being out of character and something just being an unexpected but still valid character choice is just.....how these things are executed. The latter is when writers make the effort to JUSTIFY their character choice, to sell audiences on why and how this is absolutely something this character would do, to take them on a journey of what led the character to making this choice and let them see how those steps actually line up, that’s an actual journey that character might take. The former is when writers just don’t bother and are just like, well here’s a thing that character did, and you know it was in character because well that’s the character and that’s what I wrote them doing lol, what more do you want. No. Yawn. Next.

But the trick is if you’re going to try and make a character a SPECTRUM of emotions and choices rather than just a same datapoint recurring over and over again endlessly, a literal sticking point that never advances, never progresses, never changes......you have to actually give that character free range to utilize that spectrum of emotions and choices.....not just confine them to accessing all those possibilities but ONLY within a narrowly defined niche that is its own kind of limitation.

A character can START from a logline, absolutely. Can BEGIN in a narrative niche as a way to INTRODUCE them as seemingly different from their surroundings or their peers when they do not yet have the backstory, the evidence of past stories and character choices readers can use to interpret their actions or guess their choices.....but narrative niches, IMO, are meant to have a shelf life, an expiration date. They’re a seed for characters to grow FROM, to grow PAST, not return to over and over again.....because that’s when a niche just becomes another house that stagnancy built.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughts and the article mention.....it was an interesting exploration of thoughts for me even if I didn’t ultimately agree with a lot of what was already said....still a worthwhile read though I think and I mean hey, its cool if you still agree with it more even if I don’t, lol. This is just my take.

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signoraviolettavalery · 4 years

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Starting a new post because I don’t want to hijack someone else’s gifset but @ninswhimsy was spilling some tea:

Yeah fanon Michael and Alex are both real trips sometimes. Who are those dudes?!

My thoughts on fanon Alex in particular is it goes right back to purity culture and how our favorites can’t be flawed. But with him, his flaws are INTERESTING and make him a better character. Fanon Alex sometimes gets stripped of all that and put through the fandom woobie machine until he’s reconstituted woobie sausage. Fanon Michael is just a whiny dick who is cruel for the hell of it.

ANYWAY, I want the new season already. I want them on screen, I want them sharing space and liking each other’s sense of humor and being there for each other.

Alex being put through the woobie machine until he’s a woobie sausage (lolol) is my personal pet peeve, and not (just) because he’s already been through so much shit. I once read a post season 1 fic where Maria went on to date Michael, didn’t talk to Alex and just avoided him, Liz sided with Maria, Michael said some awful things to Alex about why he can’t be with him, and Kyle avoided him because Awkward and I just...I hate when characters are written blatantly against what their characterization has been established to be for the sole purpose of making another character suffer. It feels...emotionally manipulative, almost? Like the writer doesn’t think they can do the work of getting into a character’s head and making their suffering compelling on its own, so they beat said character over the head with awful thing after awful thing until they browbeat the reader into feeling bad for them. And I get the appeal of whump, and of hurt/comfort, and of course you have to hurt a character first before the comfort can come and give resolution and catharsis. But making the characters into these Pure Flawless Beings who are Wronged by the World (and other characters, who are turned into Awful People) in order to then have the catharsis of having their pain validated is just. It’s so simplistic. It does a disservice to the characters, and to the complexity of what human beings are actually like. And I think you’re right, there some purity culture in that tendency, but I also think it’s a whole mixed bag of other things, such as (occasionally) lack of skill, or latching incredibly deeply onto a character and then turning them into the victim as a form of personal catharsis, or any number of things.

I personally dread season 2, because Carina is kind of...like that. She likes to have bad things constantly happen one after the other and just last night I remembered that in the finale Michael and Alex are going to have to talk about Maria and why they can’t be together right now and it will Hurt and I panicked because I cannot handle it. But I’ll also be able to stop wondering if Maria will experience consequences for her behavior, so.

#roswell new mexico

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purple-possibilities · 7 years

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@mreyes1994 requested Genma for the Character Ask. Here you go!

First impression Is that the coughing guy? Didn’t the coughing guy die? No it can’t be, because Ichigo* wasn’t voicing the coughing guy. Ok, so different guy. Seems very deep. Kinda philosophical. Would probably make a good mentor. I like him. *i watched the dub, and the voice actor is the same one who voices Kurosaki Ichigo from Bleach.

Impression now Is it hot in here or is it just Genma? Definitly a character I would have liked to see more of. There are such subtle allusions to his shared past with other amazing characters; he was on Team Chouza with Gai and Ebisu (and why are they not shown being friends i thought people were tight with their genin teammates? PLUS GAI---HE WOULD NEVER STAND FOR THIS LACK OF FRIENDSHIP) and he was on the Yondaime’s Hokage Guard Platoon (he’s 3 years older than Kakashi, meaning he was 17 when Minato died, and therefore learned the Hiraishin as a 15/16 year old. How is he only a Tokubestu Jounin? Yes, he needs to be with Raido and Iwashi to do it but still that’s badass). I feel like Kishi and SP just kind of threw Genma in there when they needed an adult somewhere, or else they wouldn’t have given him so many random qualifications. Genma has been around, and no, I’m not talking about his sex life.

Favourite moment When Shikaku starts the mental connection with Genma to inform him that Madara was brought back to life with Edo Tensei, and Shikaku is like “I have something to tell you, and it’s super important that I convey it to you quickly, so don’t ask questions.” and Genma agrees, so Shikaku starts again, “Marada has been reanimated with Edo Tensei---” and then Genma just can’t help but interrupt. Repeatedly. And makes jokes. I love it.

Idea for a story I’ve actually always wanted to write a story which gets deep into Genma’s character. Not this playboy bs, background character nonsense. It could have a pairing, idk, maybe with Shizune, or Ino, or maybe even an OC, idk. Ok, it’s a romance now (I love love, ok, sue me pleasedon’tsueme). But in the story, it’s not just about wooing or getting the pair together, it explores Genma’s past, and his relationship with the main cast, and fleshes out all these details of his life. And we see so many other characters in it. Raido and Iwashi feature in it a lot, of course. I’ll make it Post Fourth War, too, and maybe Kakashi is Hokage (because I love him leave me alone). We get to see Genma’s friendship with GAI (omg this makes me so happy to think about...look what you made me do) and also his relationship with Ebisu (you can’t tell me that Genma doesn’t tease Ebisu about being a closet pervert like, all the time. Even you must know it’s true). We get to see them comforting Chouza after the loss of Shikaku and Inoichi (and why yes, the flashbacks to their time on team Chouza will be plentiful) and maybe even see Genma with Chouji, sharing stories about his dad and the antics they all used to get up to.

Unpopular opinion I don’t know where people got the idea that Genma is a perverted player. The series never even shows him flirting. So why does he have a reputation of chasing after every warm body on two legs? Is it because he’s attractive? Is it the senbon? Is it the bandanna? I don’t get it. And I don’t see him that way.

My initial impression of Genma was that he was a deep thinker, and I hold on to that. Sure, he’s got the reputation of being kind of a jokester (although with words less than with actions---he’s not going around playing pranks, I can’t see that happening) but that just means he’s playful.

Playfulness can be expressed in many different ways, and yes, flirting is one of them. But there’s a difference between being a flirt and constantly trying to get into people’s pants. I don’t see Genma as one of those dudes at the bar trying to get his dick wet. I think it’s more the case of---in casual conversations---if Genma sees an opening to make a crack at someone, or flirt, or joke, then he just goes for it. He has a smart mouth (and ass, too lol). His personality in conjunction with his looks very well could attract all sorts of people, but I don’t think his intention for making those types of quips/flirting is to have sex with them, or even grab a date.

That Genma has a reputation in fanon as having dated every available kunoichi and/or shinobi honesty just seems to me like an easy plot device that strips Genma of who he is. Like, ‘I wasn’t sure what to write/I wanted to make [character] jealous, so here’s Genma conveniently popping up at a bar to hit on one half of the main love interest.’ Which would be a totally great plot device if Genma was actually interested in the character he was flirting with, and we got an actual love triangle (and all that drama) or even some OT3 action (I never say no to poly relationships lol). That would be great. But he’s usually just written flatly, and he becomes a device and not a person/character. It doesn’t do him justice, and Genma deserves better. Say it with me now:

Genma deserves better!

I also don’t understand why, although clearly receiving signalled or verbal disinterest, Genma is always feeling people up. I sincerely doubt that Genma cannot respect boundaries. And if he wanted to check someone out, Genma is a ninja, and a great one. He could totally sneak a peek without the person (who was made uncomfortable by his looking) noticing. He’s not a creep. He does not commonly engage in sexual harassment---I actually think he would be super mindful of people’s boundaries. I think he’s very intuitive, and maybe even highly empathetic. Not necessarily sympathetic (although I do think he has the capacity for it), but definitely able to understand other people’s emotions, often just from body language.

That’s not to say that I don’t think he could develop a rapport with certain people, involving constant flirting or blatantly checking the other out, featuring wolf-whistling and cheeky comments, and maybe even a touch or two (he’d be that friend who always puts his arm around your waist and gets a little close, with hands that drift a little too low). But that’s only if he knew the other person well enough to know they’d be fine with it. And it would be a specific type of relationship, not just his default reaction to everyone.

The fanon reputation he has is a discredit to his character. It makes him so one dimensional, and cheapens what would otherwise be a dynamic and interesting character. He is connected to so many people in the shinobi world; he’s in the periphery of almost every character. And sure, maybe Kishimoto just didn’t want to draw another jounin, so Genma, Raido, and Iwashi just pop up when convenient. But by whatever reason, he has all these connections, and they would be so interesting to explore.

Along with being connected to Minato (who needs his own post, or we’d be here forever) Genma’s also connected to Gai and Ebisu and Chouza, and he probably had to work with Shikaku because of being around the Hokage (and Shikaku is obviously familiar with him).

Then there’s the fact that Genma has guarded three Hokage before the end of the war, and then presumably two more after the war---the man has been with FIVE HOKAGE. In charge of PROTECTING them. That alone makes him so interesting, regardless of everything else. The things he must have seen, the plots he must have listened in on, the jobs he’s probably had to do, as someone the Hokage (past and present) trust implicitly. And he’s just a Tokubestu Jounin? WITH THE HIRAISHIN??? I don’t believe it.

There’s something up with Genma, and while I don’t know what it is, I want to know. Why can’t stories focus on that side of Genma, instead of reducing him to a playboy?

Favorite relationship This is difficult, because Genma is so sidelined that you don’t see him interact much with the other characters. You really only see him with Raidou, and sometimes Iwashi, so they win by default. But honestly, I’m super interested in all of Genma’s many hinted at relationships, most notably his relationship with Minato. I wonder how he came into the position (and Raido and Iwashi, too---Iwashi being chuunin, of all things, this doesn’t make sense, why is a chuunin guarding the Hokage?). I think that Genma is the sort of person who loves relationships. He’s the guy who can’t be alone. He doesn’t care if you’re reading at the kitchen table while he makes dinner, so long as you hmm along every once in a while. Although he’s also probably an amazing conversationalist. I want to have philosophical discussions with Genma on life and love and what sorts of pumpkin dishes are basic and which are shinobi acceptable (the answer: they’re all exceptional shinobi dishes, sibi---stop eating my soup!).

Favorite headcanon I’m going to get a little inappropriate with this. But, Genma has an oral fixation if you know what I mean, and he knows his way around more than just a senbon...

This got super long holy shit. I have a lot to say about Genma! If you missed it, this post inspired a fic!

Here is the ask. Send me a character (canon or oc) or even a pairing. Up next is Hidan, and then Adult!Obito, Rock Lee, and Ino.

Already completed: Madara, Kakashi, Shino, Tenzou, Gai

#shiranui genma #ask meme #answered asks #character ask #sibi talks about naruto

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