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homosexuhauls · 11 months

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This may sound like a dumb question, but what exactly do pro-trans people mean when they say TWAW? Especially the ones that don't pass, I think I get how they see passing ones. What I mean is, before I became a radfem I was very much a normie and when looking at TW I could see they were male and that they weren't the same as "cis women" but I thought it was the right and polite thing to call them women and she. Now that I've become GC I always see non-passing TW as males/men, and passing TW are transwomen at best, aka as males who really wish to be women. But what is it like for TRAs? Do they even see that the person is male or do their eyes genuinely perceive a female person? Or do they see the maleness but it means nothing to them, just a different type of women but still 100% woman? Or is the sex completely irrelevant? I once heard an ex-tra say she genuinely couldn't tell the difference between the sexes anymore when she was a TRA. And do they genuinely believe TWAW or do they know it's not true but just refuse to admit it? Obvi not everyone thinks the same, but I'm curious bc I saw your post.

Definitely not a dumb question at all!! Personally I think it's an exaggeration to say that TRA's genuinely can't tell the difference between males and females. We know this because of the terms AFAB and AMAB, and now the terms TME and TMA, all of which are just different ways of saying female and male. And lots of TRA's point out the hypocrisy of this too, which is amusing.

I think most TRA's view TWAW as a rally cry, a bit like "love is love"*. It's not something to be questioned or debated, it's just meant to be a punchy statement with a big emotive impact.

*("Love is love" is not a bad slogan at all, but gay people wouldn't have gotten very far if this was the only thing we could ever muster up to say to our opponents.)

If one believes that gender identity supersedes biological (or "assigned") sex, then there is no contradiction in believing that males can be women or girls. Similarly, if one believes that "male" and "female" are socially constructed sex categories that do not fully account for the diversity of human experience, then it is easy to discount the concept of biological sex as meaningless and outdated.

It doesn't mean that TRA's see no differences between the experiences of "cis" women and males who identify as women. But usually these differences in experience are viewed as weighted against trans women, e.g. belief in cis privilege. This is why we see arguments like "Trans is an adjective, like black/Asian/bisexual/blonde - don't say transwomen, say trans women." Being trans (male) is viewed as just another modifier to the state of womanhood.

Essentially, the category of woman means something very different to many of those who believe in gender self-determination, than it does to radfems or normies. Because identity is king, a non-passing trans woman is a woman just as a lesbian who dates men is a lesbian. What matters is not the actions you partake in, but the lens through which you view yourself.

This is all a bit vague but to give you my own former perspective, I was very aware that I always viewed trans-identifying males differently to actual women. I was very guilty about this, I knew it was wrong, but I rationalised it as unconscious transmisogyny which I needed to overcome. I would go on r/transpassing, I would look for pretty/androgynous trans women like Indya Moore or Andreja Pejić who I could pretend to be attracted to, and I would remind myself that there are biological ("cis") women who don't always "pass" as female. I worked really hard for a long time to oppose and argue against my discomfort with trans women, because I viewed it as a symptom of bigotry, rather than as an instinct-driven rejection of male misogyny.

#i hope something of this makes sense!!!#words are hard sometimes #asks #anonymous #radfem safe #i might go back and try to explain this better when i'm less sleep deprived #or if anyone else has anything they'd like to add #i think you've hit the nail on the head with your questions tho #like basically all of them i could've answered with 'yes some trans ppl believe that' lol

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man-squared · 2 years

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Everytime the queer community gets a little bit bigger or better, we all make the mistake of labeling others. This puts us back years and on the side of those who dislike us.

Think about it. The trans community, at large, finally getting space to talk about our issues and most of the community understanding the variety of experiences only for us to be hit with people inside and outside of our community labeling us. But you know, at least it's worth progressive labels and these people seem to be excepting /sarcasm.

This has nothing to do with the actual usefulness of these words, but the way they have been ransacked to label others because humans gonna arbitrarily push others into boxes based on their liking and understanding of them, forgoing autonomy and respectfulness -- which I think stems from the feeling of being out of control, but that doesn't justify the behavior. So now we have assholes, using other's AGABs (assigned gender at birth) as a tool of oppression and silence. And this isn't just from conservatives, though their approach seems largely based in poor, delusional, oppressed AFABs (assigned female at birth) and terrible, scary, oppressive AMABs (assigned male at birth). It's used by us to justify who gets a say, a voice, to demean others, and that's not right.

Another bastardized "progressive" term that's used very similarly is TME and TMA (transmisogyny exempt and affected). As far as I have seen (and feel free to correct me with sources), these specific terms have not been used in helpful ways. That's definitely not to say transmisogyny is not helpful in queet theory and to talk about issues. However, the binarism that has come from the terms TME and TMA are less than helpful in my opinion and are often used to mean either someone's perceived AGAB or "me versus them." What I mean by the second us is when someone disagrees with someone (oddly, I've largely seen it used by people who aren't trans or who would be deemed TMEs) then the person who disagrees is TME.

Easier put, Person A writes something that Person B disagrees with (let's say transandrophobia or lesbianism or basically anything). Person B labels Person A as a TME to discredit their argument or statement with no knowledge on whether or not Person A is TME or TMA.

Hell, you can even see this done with identities. I have seen people who are bi or against bi lesbians as well as those who are lesbians or against bi lesbians create a binary of lesbian or nonlesbian (and bi or non-bi even). Not only is that ridiculous because any community should be allowed to talk about other communities and issues within, but also it hurts everyone. It is not helpful to call a bi lesbian or a bi lesbian supporter a nonlesbian, because you do not get to decide who is a lesbian or not -- nor do you get to create a hierarchy out of lesbian. Bi lesbians are a type of lesbian, no matter if you believe people can be one or not, and guess what! there are lesbians who are mono-attracted (not mspec) who support mspec lesbians (including bi lesbians) and there are mspec people who aren't them that support them, too.

The only thing that using this rhetorical tool does is help separate communities. If everyone who disagrees with you is "not a part of your community," then it's pretty easy to say "listen to our/my/their community" or "no person who is a part of this community believes in or thinks or is *that*."

And let's not forget how these binaries harm anyone not a part of them or not easily deconstructed into one or the other labels. That's definitely something that gets touched on a bit, but never really hashed out. What about those who weren't so easily assigned a sex or gender at birth? What about those who are TMA but not the same way *this type of person is*? What about the lesbians who have attraction to more than one gender but don't identify as bi or mspec lesbians?

If you want to feel more in control, talk to your community as a whole, not just the ones you deem worthy, and stop assigning labels to others because you can or think you can. Lest you be the next person assigned a label without any say and with no care if you are said label.

Please, those who are outside of these binaries of terms feel free to add your input. I don't care if you disagree with any sentiments, I just want to hear from you.

#man² #binary #queer #trans #long #bigotry #labels #binarism #lateral aggression

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