#i just don't feel like i'm the type of byler to hate milkvan?

[chirpsythismorning]

I love it when milkvan accounts have "the superhero and the heart 💜💙" in their bios, like yesss address her by exactly what she doesn't wanna be seen as, and him as how his other love interest standing in the way of milkvan sees him

I can honestly say it's gotten to a point where I feel bad? Like, completely separate from byler obviously, just seeing some of their takes on things, it makes me feel pity almost because their interpretation of what's happening is just so superficial and yet they truly believe it's the most beautiful love story on the planet.

I'm not even the type of byler that hates milkvan tbh. I am a byler that was a milkvan back in the day. Like, I hate to admit this, I hate it so much, but I literally remember rewatching season 2 to prepare for s3's release and I skipped all of s2 practically so I could get to the end to rewatch their reunion! I was that bad!

For those that don't know, s2 was seen as like a big risk from Netflix's perspective, because they were scared that the show would tank since El wasn't with the boys again, specifically Mike, for the entire season. And so I can honestly say, at one point, I contributed to a large sector of fans back then who thought it was the Mike and El show and ended up missing a lot as a result. Though, upon coming across theories post s3 (Mike in front of the closet in Will's room was what opened my eyes officially), I remember rewatching s2 and seeing that shed scene and feeling instantly that it was romantic... And so apparently, all it took was me actually watching it instead of skipping over it to realize....

So that's probably a part of the problem for them still, is that they're watching the milkvan scenes with undivided attention (with rose-tinted goggles), and they're glossing over everything else. Even now, with one season left we still see them downplay Mike and Will's relationship by saying Mike hates Will? And that alone could not make it more obvious that they do not actually watch the show.

Most bylers on the other-hand are capable of watching milkvan scenes, multiple times, like we analyze them to death. And most of us are coming from a good place, genuinely trying to understand these two characters and where they are both coming from. Though, I have yet to see a byler scene be analyzed by milkvans? Like they just don't talk about them beyond downplaying them both romantically and platonically? I'm convinced they've seen every byler scene maybe once bc they were forced to on the first watch but they've avoided their scenes ever since... Not great for their ability to understand the show obviously.

Many of them do in fact view that first meeting in the woods as like them falling in love at first sight. And genuinely, A LOT of people got hooked on Stranger Things in the first place because of Mike and El and them sort of viewing all of their interactions as irrefutably romantic.

And that isn't inherently bad! It's not! But now when you add Will in the mix, you start to see the hypocrisy seep in through the cracks. And it's because by comparison, they view fans merely speculating about Mike's potential feelings for Will as something to be seen as perverted or gross. And so that for me, is when I sort of start to question the groundwork of milkvan.

Because quite frankly, I didn't see any of these people getting angry and defensive about how gross 99% of the audience was for shipping Mike and El in s1-2. As far as I can remember, the show was a hit in large part because it followed this very successful trope of self insert nerdy boy meets girl who is way more 'cool' than him, and people ate that shit up bc we always do. It's what we're used to. It's safe. From what I recall, no one had any problem with Mike trying to kiss El in his basement bathroom after like 3 days of knowing her, during a very traumatic time in their lives and only specifically after Lucas implied Mike was already in love with her and wanted to marry her at this point.

They saw that and said, that's love bitch.

And bylers say this all the time, but it is absolutely true: If the roles were reversed, if El was the best friend of Mike's who went missing and instead Will was a boy they found in the woods while looking for her, fans would have been saying this is obviously a best friends to lovers story between Mike and El!!!.. And that bathroom scene? If that happened between Mike and Will? They would have saw that and said what the fuck kind of sick shit is this.? And maybe it would have been in large part because the circumstances at play, bc it doesn't really matter to me personally when it comes to that situation whether it was a girl and a boy or a boy and a boy, it was an odd choice to make, plain and simple. And that's what I'm trying to say here. That to them, one is true love, and one is disturbing.

Mike's known Will longer. If he is queer (he is), then it's very likely he did have a crush on Will at the time he met El, not necessarily super consciously or anything. But even despite that, I don't think Mike would have felt comfortable with kissing Will in that situation, nor any other boy or girl. They prove this when Mike's makes that comment in s2, chastising Dustin and Lucas for merely being interested in getting to know Max, despite never having spoken a word to her? Like that tells you right there the circumstances and everything at play is what led Mike to try to kiss El in that moment, a moment that was unprecedented and never would have happened in any other scenario.

Even in the case they found Will in the woods instead of El, I don't even think that scene would have happened either? And this is because the whole point of it was for El to ask Mike if she was still pretty despite having a buzz cut (looking like a boy like everyone in the story has been hinting at us that entire season), for Mike to say pretty, really pretty, only for him to look visibly uncomfortable with himself, followed by trying to overcorrect this moment by kissing her.

That scene wouldn't make sense with Mike and Will bc it was happening in the first place because of heteronormativity. And it existing and people thinking it's like peak romance, is in and of itself proving the hypocrisy of an audience that is eventually going to call Will and Mike ending up together, coming out of nowhere and perverted...

Bc you just know if El was Mike's best friend, they never would have had any interest in Will as this boy they found with superpowers. They would have got those scenes of Mike looking everywhere for El and instantly latched onto the boy/girl slow-burn best friends to lovers trope.

The crazy together scene???? If that scene was between Mike and his best friend El, fans would have been rooting for it to end in a kiss... Why do you think the Duffers had that awkward long pause at the end? They were nodding to the fact that this audience is willing to see one thing, but not the other. Even when the thing they're willing to see is overcast by things that should make you a little bit more critical of it in the first place.

Putting Will or any other boy in El's place in that scene in the bathroom or other moments between Mike and El in s1 would have completely removed the romantic lens for most of the audience back then, and it's because... wait for it... HETERONORMATIVITY!

We as a society see a boy and a girl being nice to each other and pressure them to make it official. Hell no a boy and a girl can't just close friends. Either one of them is harboring secret feelings or one of them is gay.

Heteronormativity is literally why most of society latched onto these 2 characters, not necessarily the pieces that made up the whole. And so they have to make up excuses despite the circumstances bc it is so normalized that they don't think twice about it, because they've never had to think twice about it up to this point.

Stories have always catered to them. In fact, the stories we've been exposed to our whole lives has created the expectations we have in the first place.

And so like... I do feel bad but only bc I'm a decent person and don't like to see people hurting genuinely.

No doubt I will feel satisfaction seeing some folks who were hurtful to bylers get a taste of their own medicine, but I genuinely hope that they can eventually learn to accept it and appreciate the story for what the Duffers intend it to be when it's all said and done.

As for the superhero and the heart... again, I feel bad like genuinely, I don't know how to even explain the unnecessary guilt I feel that these strangers who I don't even know are going to be whiplashed tf out of next season...

#stranger things #anti milkvan #sorry that i sort of went off on a tangent #i just don't feel like i'm the type of byler to hate milkvan? #maybe it's bc ive reached a point where i feel zero threat to like byler or whatever? #but that's the thing #it's not even about shipping byler and like wanting them to be together #i've just been along for the ride this whole time and going along with what's presented #and byler is obvious to me based on the evidence #and so i like talking about it and analyzing it bc there is so much to still discover #if byler didn't happen i wouldn't like be heartbroken #i would just be like 100% genuinely confused #bc i'm not here bc i'm like queerbaited constantly #i'm here bc i like tv shows and movies and get fixated on ones that are smart and interesting every other year #and st is the fixation rn #and byler is like the life and blood atp #bc there's just soooooooo much! #hopefully milkvans will allow themselves to rewatch byler scenes finally post s5... #bc you just know most of them can't bc it makes it near impossible to convince themselves milkvan is superior... #like... it's obvious the show doesn't want you to feel that way by the end of s4 #so... #but it's inevitable they'll have to choose between being bitter forever or just simply accepting it and appreciating it for what it is #i wish them all well #besides like genuine homophobes who are pieces of shit #i look forward to them saying this was fanservice or last minute or something #that will be... peak entertainment

[thebrokengate]

One of the weirdest types of people I’ve encountered on this app and on Twitter are the GAY PEOPLE who are anti-Byler because “Mike is straight, and Will can do so much better than Mike” and even when you point out the evidence to the contrary, they call you delusional and get aggressive about it too. It’s like YOU’RE QUEER, YOU SHOULD BE ON OUR SIDE, OR AT LEAST SEE THE POTENTIAL??? You can’t really call them homophobic cuz they’re gay too, but they do sure parrot a lot of the same rhetoric of toxic ovenmitts. But it’s like a lot of them have black-and-white views too just like straight Milkvans and can’t accept Mike being gay because he doesn’t “seem gay.” A lot of them are lowkey biphobic too and can’t seem to fathom queerness outside a certain box. But then again a lot of them ship St3ddie and the ship that must not be named, even tho a queer Steve wouldn’t fit into the norm either, so I just don’t get it…

Yeah, I'm not sure I get that either. The only explanation I can really come up with is they've chosen their favored ship in Milkvan and refuse to let it go, refusing any possibility of Mike reciprocating Will's feelings. I can see some people not being confident that they'll go through with Byler and pushing aside evidence because of that or at least putting said evidence on the back burner and not taking it to heart - I know someone like that outside of the fandom who just doesn't think they'll go through with it, but he still listens even though he's not confident I'll be right. And that's fine. But getting aggressive and calling people delusional over it is fucking stupid. As far as the St3ddie thing goes, I do like the ship in a lowkey manner (and I don't mind most of the shippers either as long as they stay in their lane, don't cross-tag, etc.), so of course it's not everybody, but it never had any chance of becoming canon, and it doesn't now either. Any chemistry they had was actor's choice; it wasn't in the narrative. Unlike where Byler is being written as romantic, with common romantic tropes being used and focused on especially throughout season 4, on both sides. And some Milkvans are fine with St3ddie or just any other gay ship in the fandom, but if you ship Byler, they'll fight you, and that just shows their true colors, honestly. Bylers just existing in their own space seems to bother a lot of them so much. It could just be a loud minority too, who knows. But yeah, with people like that, I've learned it's pointless to even bring up evidence against them, because they can't have a civil discussion about it. They'll argue with you no matter what you say, and they won't change their mind because they have a chip on their shoulder. A lot of people just hate to be wrong, too. I tend to back out on those argumentative types these days, because I know I'm just wasting my own time at that point trying to prove something they're never going to look at with a cool head about things to where they might understand our side.

#ask styx #byler

[chirpsythismorning]

I hope I don't sound rude (I saw the theory you reblogged)... I just really hope that what we see in the show is not the consequence of Mike travelling back in time or that the whole show is like a big d&d game.

This is just my personal taste tho. I hope the lab is real, Henry, the lab kids and that tragic past are all real. And have always been real. I'm kinda sure we'll see time manipulation in S5. I just hope that whatever happens, happens as a consequence of what Henry is doing, now. Not whatever Mike did in S1.

When it comes to all the major theories out there (besides maybe byler which i'm 100% confident in), I myself don't subscribe fully.

I don't even subscribe fully to my own theories, and it's because we've got all the answers in front of us, but we're forced to piece together a story backwards basically.

It's more than likely all of us are right in small ways. I think that there is probably even a piece of truth hiding in most of the theories out there, and so when it comes down to me agreeing with this or that theory, it's less me being convinced and wanting it to happen, and more so me just adding it to the pile of:

OKAY. MAYBE. I COULD SEE IT. WE'LL SEE I GUESS.

There are definitely some theories I like more than others bc they feel strongly supported based on what I've found, and so there is an element of bias of course. In the case others hate those theories, they'd probably put those at the bottom of their list.

Currently I'm like 98.9% confident with birthdaygate, 66% confident in twelvegate (it fluctuates), 39% confident in lettergate, 14% confident in flickergate and the rest of the gates are either way lower or somewhere on the low end in between. But you'll notice none of them are zero bc I would be a fool to assume anything is impossible.

When it comes to that theory in particular, parts of it fit and make a lot of sense. Other parts seem like they could be hinting at other things and just fit there as well.

I wonder if this could be part of the Duffers nervousness over the ending of the show being disappointing for fans? The whole time travel theory in general is something a vast majority of fans hate, and the Duffers haven't really talked much on their end about time travel and the show all being a d&d game (why not talk about it...), which does make me wonder if they've planning on the ending bearing some resemblance to a revelation like that, and so then it would make sense for them to be defensive about it. They also might feel an obligation to really work hard in s5 to make it satisfying despite it being something we were convinced we didn't want.

I do agree that time travel/'it was all a d&d game' type theories create this paradox of everything we've seen essentially being pointless. Years upon years of story-building all for nothing. We know that there will be plenty of ga saying that about milkvan in s5 when byler is endgame...

Regardless of whether that theory is entirely on track with what will play out on the show, we are bound to have some things that occur next season that will force us to rethink how we thought about the show from the beginning. Whether that be specific moments/memories having more significance than we thought, or characters having different feelings/motives than we thought, there are a lot of different avenues with which someone is bound to feel cheated.

I do hope that it was all planned from the beginning? Or at least the core of how it ends was in their sights early on? That way we can hope that along the way they kept that ending in mind.

Though what makes this idea also scary is that those kinds of endings can also be quite disappointing for the majority. Think about How I Met Your Mother as one example. That show went on for years with the creators ending it in a way that made most fans feel kind of cheated. Despite them having the ending in their sites the entire time, they spent years making that ending unsatisfying, and they also made no effort to improve upon that ending when the time finally came, to at least match with the story they crafted along the way, instead they kept an ending that satisfied the person watching the pilot episode and basically fuck the rest I guess.

I would hope that whether it was all planned from the beginning or not, they would look at what fans are saying and at least take some of it into consideration. As opposed to just going with an idea they had back in 2015 and not expanding on it or changing it for the better.

The good news is they did come out post-s4 and admit that they did take into account some feedback and as a result went back to tweak s5 a bit. Let's just assume it was to expand on stuff the audience wouldn't have been prepared for if they didn't take that time to improve/expand upon it.

TBH I'm still in my own world with my own theories that sort of contradict that one you mentioned. If anything I respect it because it forces me to rethink my own hypothesis for whats to come. And that's changing every day.

Thanks for the ask!

#byler #stranger things #mike wheeler #stranger things theory #stranger things 5 theory #stranger things theories #st5 predictions #some theories i love bc they're just so epic #some theories are meh to me personally and in those cases i just move along #some I LOVE but i just don't think will happen bc i'm not fortunate enough to be blessed like that #some theories are way better than anything the duffers could think of #that scares me #but i do trust them atp #they've had a lot of time to plan for s5 and i do think they saved a lot of concepts to be explored for the last season #there's going to be a lot of stuff that's a long time coming that will finally be addressed #that on it's own is going to be satisfying to me