#i don't mean ''israel is committing genocide'' i'm not denying that | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

astraltrickster · 6 months

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Given that my post about why you are not obligated to blog about Current Events (whatever they are at any given time) is going around again, I'd like to say the same thing from a slightly different angle and state what you ARE obligated to do.

You are still not obligated to blog about ANY specific subject, no matter how serious, no matter how urgent, no matter how grave. You never will be. The impact of social media on real world atrocities has the potential to be great, but it is cumulative. No one is going to die in a ditch somewhere, barely uttering the tragic final words, "if only...if only...tumblr users wormhentaiafficionado and mothmanbutthole...posted about how sad they are...then maybe things would be different..." - nor are policymakers going to change their minds because some tweet has 749,845 cumulative likes and retweets instead of 750,000. Make no mistake, if you have the energy to be sharing these kinds of things, it can be good to do! We live in a society, it's always good to help where you can, even if all you can do is show public support for people who are hurting - but if you can't do that, for any reason, you're not obligated to. Period. End of.

What are you obligated to do?

1. Give people the benefit of the doubt. Social media accounts are not most people's entire lives. Just because someone isn't blogging about whatever tragedy is occurring does not mean they don't care. Sometimes it does mean that, sure, and that sucks - but not only are you not going to change that by yelling at them, sometimes it means they care too much. Sometimes it means they're closer to it than you assumed and need a moment to think about something else, anything else. Sometimes it means it's not safe for them to be blogging about it, be it due to abusive family potentially finding out, being at risk of getting fired and quite possibly dying of poverty sooner rather than later, or even taking very illegal direct action that they do not want to be linked to on record in even the vaguest possible way. Sometimes it means dealing with it is their day job and they're on the internet after a long and exhausting day of trying to make things better. You don't know. You'll never know unless they decide to tell you. No one owes you that explanation. You are obligated to make peace with that fact.

2. Slow the fuck down.

Listen. When bad things happen, from natural disasters, to manmade horrors beyond our comprehension, it's only normal to get scared and desperate to do something, anything about it. That heightened emotional state is very vulnerable, and because of that, there will always be people out there looking to take advantage of the chaos for ulterior motives - and no matter how good your intentions, and in fact no matter how right you are in your values and at the core of your strategy, you will never be immune to garbage-in-garbage-out. Misinformation can be deadly, even in the hands of someone who means well. You need to pause long enough to sort out the garbage. You need to learn to fight the impulse to trust every single post that tells you that your share/comment/etc. is URGENT and WILL mean the difference between life and death for someone, somewhere. Do your fact checks. Scan for dogwhistles before you end up passing around a post that implies [insert group that is marginalized in most of the English-speaking world but has hegemonic power in some other part of the world and is committing some atrocity there] is coming after you next if you stay silent. Vet charity and advice links before you accidentally send scared, desperate, and vulnerable people to a scammer - or worse, hand them over to a honeypot operation or give them a recipe for poisonous "medicine".

Or, to put it another way, you are obligated to make an attempt to stay informed enough to avoid making things materially worse. You are not obligated to doomblog. In fact, doomblogging can be antithetical to your obligation to not make things worse. Choosing neutrality in times of great tragedy and injustice is bad, yes, but you should immediately be wary of anyone who says that simply not blogging about a subject - let alone not sharing a specific post - is inherently "choosing neutrality".

So remember: breathe. Be careful out there. Mourn for the people that whatever atrocity has this or my other post circulating has taken from us or will take from us, and do your best to be kind to the people who are still alive - and remember that kindness includes using social media responsibly.

#current events #internet safety #serious tag #on 10/27/2023 - this post brought to you by the fact that i've seen multiple people #who i know mean well #pass around full tilt new world order conspiracy propaganda shit because it was hidden in support for palestine #i don't mean ''israel is committing genocide'' i'm not denying that #that is very much happening and it's horrifying #but i mean full on ''(((They're))) controlling the whole world's media to cover it up and you're next if you don't share this post #you're the last bastion of hope we have if we don't want to lose all we hold dear all over the world'' level shit #and it was honestly enough to make me dissociate #but i leave it generic because i know it will be relevant to something else in the future #and like. bruh. generic timeless question. if you'd rather people be passing around misinformation that does more harm than good #up to and including - and i cannot stress this enough #anything from SCAM CHARITIES to CRYPTO HATE PROPAGANDA to POISON RECIPES PASSED OFF AS MEDICINE #than just...not using this ONE aspect of their lives to talk about [INSERT ISSUE HERE]#....do YOU care? or do you just want an excuse to FEEL like you're helping by micromanaging strangers?

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the-catboy-minyan · 2 months

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why so many people don't recognize that their antizionism is antisemitic, in my opinion:

(disclaimer: this is not an educational post, it will not have sources for claims, and is not meant to be read as the objective truth. it is solely my observation and opinions. civil debate and criticism is encouraged in both the notes and reblogs, I will do my best to answer those and correct my post if necessary. edits will be highlighted in pink, if this is a reblog, press the original post to see the most updated version. English is not my first Language, I might have used the wrong words for some terms.)

The Meaning Of Zionism:

this section is meant to highlight the difference between

firstly, they falsely believe the term Zionism means supporting genocide or Netanyahu's government, when most Jews don't use the term Zionism that way. Zionism has many different meanings and subgroups, as Jews love to argue (/j but Judaism encourages debate and personal interpretation), but all meanings are built on the original idea of "Jewish self determination in their indigenous land/creating and maintaining a Jewish country somewhere in the world" (yes, technically believing giving Israelis land somewhere else to be Israel is a form of Zionism, I've seen that take). the methods for creating and maintaining the lands differ, so is the belief of what land should be considered Israel, but all forms of Zionism rely on that core belief. while Zionists may support those things, that is not an integral part for Zionism, and many Zionists oppose those ideas and condemn them.

in addition, they falsely believe Zionism is in favor of illegal occupation and apartheid, which only specific subgroups of Zionists (extremely right-wing Zionists) are in favor of. Zionism is, again, mostly about an end goal (establishing and maintaining a Jewish state (which currently means in Eretz Israel)), and people will have different opinions on how to achieve it, including extremist and racist opinions. all movements have people who hold extremist beliefs, and are usually condemned by other members of their movement, Zionism is no exception.

they don't see Zionism as Jewish. I mean, there are more Christian Zionists than there are Jews in the world! of course it's not Jewish! lets ignore the fact the movement started by a Jewish man, was widely popular in Jewish communities and is what led to the establishment of Israel as a Jewish state.

now, let's for a moment ignore the misinterpretation of the term and assume that by saying Zionists, they refer only to people who support Netanyahu, illegal occupation in places like the west bank, war crimes committed by the IDF, etc. regardless of the Zionist's religion/ethnicity/race. (keep in mind that while that's their assumed intentions, their antizionism will still ultimately include self-identified Jewish Zionists who are strongly against these things)

Antizionist Activism and Beliefs:

have you heard accusations of antisemitism and the response "I'm not antisemitic, just antizionist"? this section will highlight the reasons why many antizionist actions or claims are seen as antisemitic by many Jews.

No Zionists Allowed: as in, excluding zionists from public, private, and online spaces. this tactic is used today to exclude many groups deemed problematic, "no [queer]phobes allowed", "no racists allowed", "no men misogynists allowed", etc. which is why on the surface, it doesn't seem antisemitic. yet this exclusion tactic is derivative from historical exclusion of ethnic groups, groups that were seen as evil/violent/sinners/subhuman were ostracised from society and denied access to public/private spaces. signs like "no blacks allowed", "no gays allowed", and, of course, "gentiles only".

Zionists Are Nazis: comparing any "evil" group to Nazis is common, they're so overly exposed to ww2 stories, especially ones that paint Nazi germany as pure evil cartoon villains, that they have no idea what the term Nazi actually means anymore. Nazism is based on race theory and antisemitism, it's the creator of the term antisemitism to make it sound more scientific instead of discriminatory, in Mein Kamph, Hitler wrote that almost every "issue" in the world is the fault of Jews. comparing the extremely antisemitic, supremacist, racist, homophobic, ableist, etc. ideology of Nazism to a Jewish movement for self determination is in fact antisemitic. (it is also wrong to throw the term Nazi around for any reason, but especially for a Jewish movement)

Zionists Control The Media/Government/etc: the belief that there's a secret organisation controlling the media is an old conspiracy theory, which comes from the genuine fear of your government feeding the people propaganda to sway their opinion in favor of the government to let it do what it wants. it's is good to believe the media is biased, as it's written by humans who are inherently biased, but to outright claim the entirety of media is untrustworthy when it's not hailed from a dictatorship is a harmful belief. this is what antivaxxers believed during the pandemic, what conspiracy theorists believed for centuries, and believe it or not, it's at least partially derived from the antisemitic belief of Jews controlling the banks and conspiracies like The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Rid The World Of Zionists: again, there are many other activist groups that believe their enemy should be eradicated, that if they believe in or have done xyz, they deserve their rights to be taken away from them and to die. this is dehumanization, and an oppression tactic. the moment you say "this type of person doesn't deserve rights because they're evil", the moment people are gonna start getting falsely accused of falling into that type with the purpose of silencing them or getting their rights revoked. + the before point of political exclusion being derivative of ethnic/religious/racial exclusion. we've seen many people getting accused of being secretly Zionists for even mentioning the hostages.

Zionists Want Genocide/Are Bloodthirsty (a reminder that this is under the assumption that Zionists blindly support the current Israeli government and the IDF's war crimes): this is both straight up a variation of blood libel, and extremely hypocritical.

blood libel started as the antisemitic accusations that Jews kidnapped Christian children on Passover to creat Matzot, while no one beliefs are that extreme anymore, the underlying belief that Jews are violent and enjoy murder still exists, and was shifted to be about Israelis. the "it was self defense!" accusation that claims Israelis are just itching for their enemies to strike first to get the opportunity to respond violently and use self defense as an excuse, for example.

hypocritical as in, this goes hand in hand with the belief that Zionists should be killed. "Zionists support genocide so they should all die a violent and gruesome death" is a take I've seen MULTIPLE TIMES - and being said completely seriously, not in the comedic tumblr way of "my blorbo is cringe? wrong, killing you with hammers :3" - and is extra hypocritical when they very strongly oppose the idea of "Hamas are terrorists who committed atrocities therefore they should all die" (and ftr I don't claim they should support that).

there are people who believe that violence is necessary for an end goal, extreme violence even. that doesn't make them bloodthirsty or violent people, it makes them radicalized. there are some Zionists who believe the only way to maintain safety in Israel is to not only eradicate Hamas, but to eradicate Gaza, as they believe that all the people of Gaza are brainwashed to be violently against Israel and pro martyrdom (as in suicide attacks), and thus a threat to Israel's safety. there are some antizionists who believe the only way to free Palestine and bring safety to Gaza is to eradicate Zionists, as they believe that all Zionists are brainwashed to hate Palestinians and to be pro illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing, and are thus a threat to Palestine and their human rights. both of these beliefs are radical and false.

Zionist Blocklists: this is mostly an online problem, but Zionists have been doxxed IRL (and I don't mean individuals, massive lists of hundreds of alleged Zionists) for the same reasons those blocklists exists. people are gathering usernames of "Zionists" online to "warn other users" from interacting with them, with the disclaimer of "I'm not telling you to harass them, don't interact, just block". not only does it encourage to never hear the opposing side, thus pushing you further into an echo chamber of only voices that agree with you and never actually learning from the source what are the opinions you oppose, it ultimately creates a neat little list of people to harass because of the before mentioned dehumanizing belief that evil people deserve violence against them. suddenly sending death threats is easier than ever, and it's justified since these are allegedly evil people. you're not encouraged to double check if these people are actually Zionists, there's no explanation as to why they're on the list, you just have to trust the op.

Boycotting Zionist Companies: The Idea of boycotting companies or other organisations that support unethical causes is also, again, not new. People boycott companies that donated to anti-lgbtq organisations or that relied on slavery for their product creation. and yet the companies who are being boycotted are

Israeli companies, which are not necessarily supporting the Israeli government, it would be like boycotting every Chinese company because of the Uyghur genocide.

companies which helped Israel in some way, like McDonald's, which donated meals to Israeli soldiers during the start of the war (this is again a reminder that the majority of McDonald's income is real estate). there are arguments to be made to justify these type of boycotts, as they're similar to other justifications for different causes, yet unless these companies have directly funded the IDF's weaponry, the arguments for boycotting is flimsy at best.

companies which mentioned the hostages, like Paramount, which ran an Israeli ad for the release of the hostages. mentioning the hostages is not the same as condoning war crimes, it's recognizing there are innocent Israelis wrapped up in this conflict, just as supporting a free Palestine is not the same as supporting Hamas.

organisations that allowed Israel to participate, like Eurovision. there's just no reason to disallow a country to participate in a songs competition due to being in a war.

events that happen "while Israel is bombing Gaza". American events like the Oscars that happen on a set date and have nothing to do with Israel have no reason to be boycotted just for happening on the same day a war is happening.

Starbucks. why is Starbucks being boycotted? it had done nothing in support of Israel, literally fucking none, it's being boycotted for supporting Palestine wrong, once, on October. it doesn't operate in Israel, it never said anything publicly in support of Israel, there's literally 0 reason to boycott it????????????

anyways. while there are different reasons and justifications for every company or event, there's this silly little thing that happened in Nazi Germany that was boycotting Jewish business, in response to the "anti-nazi boycott". the Jewish boycotts were unsuccessful on paper, but ingrained the Nazi idea of Jews being inferior.

The Harm It Does For The Jewish Community:

The Overlap: the majority of Jews are Zionists, not in the sense of supporting genocide, but in the Jewish meaning(s) of believing a Jewish state should exist or is in some way beneficial for Jewish safety. by excluding and silencing Zionists, the antizionist crowd are excluding and silencing the majority of jewish people. a Jewish person who wants to integrate back into their circles has to refute their Zionism in fear of being seen as a genocide supporter, a Jewish person who refuses to hide their beliefs will be labeled evil and be ostracized. actual right-wing zionists would stay away from these spaces anyways for being leftist/centrist spaces, thus the exclusion is effective only on leftist Jews who dare believe Israel should exist.

"Zionism Isn't Judaism": is a claim many antizionists make, yet time and time again we see synagogues, Jewish schools, and Jewish neighborhood get targeted by antizionist protests. Jewish spaces are being attacked, even if you claim it is by a minority, these are still actions that are largely ignored by the antizionist crowd and aren't being condemned. you know, by the people who believe that silence is violence?

Can't Have A Single Positive Opinion About Israel: you have an Israeli relative that enlisted to the IDF? they should have refused servitude and gone to jail, you're a genocide supporter. You've done a birthright trip and it was nice? ew, everyone knows every inch of Israel is full of illegal settlements and apartheid, genocide supporter. you talked about the hostages? propaganda, genocide supporter. Israel passed a pro lgbtq law? pinkwashing propaganda, genocide supporter. you don't think Israel is an occupying terrorist force that oppresses their own citizens and deserves to be burned to the ground? genocide supporter, from the river to the sea!!!

Eretz Israel (not the State of Israel) is an integral part of Judaism. most of our holidays are about Israel in some way, some our traditions require Israel as a place, we bury our dead with soil from Israel, we vow to never forget Jerusalem during our weddings, we celebrate our agriculture and our miracles which happened there, our ancient holy cites are there, so are our ancestors (for ethnic Jews). many Jews are going to have at least a single positive or even a neutral opinion about Israel, and see it as a Jewish land.

The Israeli Identity: since people see Israel as an illegal settlement, apartheid, genocidal, terrorist state, etc, they also see Israelis as complicit in those crimes. every Israeli they meet is going to immediately be a criminal, Israelis are not a "real Jews" (that makes half the Jewish population fake), in the case Israel is dismantled and Israelis are forced to "go back to where they came from", will those countries accept them with open arms? or will the boycotts continue? what about Mizrahi Jews which hailed from the Arab world? do you think they'll even be allowed to live after their country's crimes against Palestine? will the Houtis let them when their flag has "death to Israel" on it (most Mizrahis are Yemeni)? if citizens are the same as their government, would that mean every Russian immigrant is an evil spy who wants to murder Ukrainians? just some questions to think about.

in conclusion: I'm tired. I've been writing for 3 hours. bye.

#antisemitism #israel #am yisrael chai #leftist antisemitism #antizionism #antizionism is antisemitism #← when done in the ways I've explained in the post #antisemitism on tumblr #tumblr antisemitism #zionism #jewish zionism

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insane-control-room · 4 months

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hi @free-falastin ! i'm a little confused how you managed to miss the point of the post you left this kind comment on:

ill take some time to carefully walk through your blog to ask you a few questions; but first and foremost, i would like to point you that you literally did exactly what that post said; ignored jewish voices to target them instead. and i would like to point out the paradox of your words: they dont deserve people being antisemitic towards them, but they do deserve to be doxxed and harassed for pointing out antisemitic tropes and behaviors. clarify please.

First: please define genocide. your banner reads "from the river to the sea", which has largely been pointed out by jewish people as a call for jewish erasure and rewriting jewish history- but nonjews say its alright so... maybe you're not calling to replace the only jewish land in the world with another islamic ethnostate.

well, id hope that would concern you, except if you scroll a bit further down your blog, you find that you actively commit jewish history erasure!

are you going to mention the fact that it was named palestine by the romans in order to punish jews? in no way does this mean that palestinians do not have a right to autonomy, but what you are saying is that jews do not have a right to autonomy.

now let's look at what you posted over here that's actually on the topic of the heritageposts jewish blocklist.

both of these people are clear that this is on antisemitism. not palestine or israel. you call them despicable for calling out anti-semitism? for not being listened to? for using morbid humor- a trait that is extremely common in jewish people?

you don't answer the question of how anti-zionism is not antisemitism, and in fact, use a KKK dogwhistle- zios. literally no one is denying that people are dying and being killed in gaza. and yet you say that we are. no one is mocking palestinians- people are mocking the lack of critical thinking that people use when citing unfounded rhetoric.

next; lets look at one of your most recent reblogs-

this ignores the massive amount of evidence that is provided by israelis and jews, including the documentaries and screenings like those by gal gadot and the hundreds of verified news articles and photographs and videos, including ones posted by hamas, i wonder why you won't take such things into account-

oh. i see. you call us liars, say we are playing the victim.

there is no evidence that can ever be compiled that will make you understand what you are doing and how paradoxical you are. thank you for openly displaying your double standards, and proving the point of the post on double standards on jews.

by the way, for people curious, here's the post that was replied to:

in what way is this okay? how can someone miss the point so badly? to come onto some random jewish person's post on double standard antisemitism and say we deserve to be attacked and harassed?

are you that blinded by hate?

#antisemitism #anti zionisim #double standard #double standard on jews #maybe someone should make a blocklist of antisemites #but that would take too long

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thatdebaterguy · 2 months

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Forcing Beliefs

I saw this post here, and clearly they think what they're doing is spreading a good cause, but god they've done it so wrongly. The entire reason of wars stems from different opinions. Hamas believes Israel is some hellish creation that should be wiped off the face of the Earth, Israel thinks it has a right to exist. Saying that's a debate that actually exists genuinely blows my mind, that a country's right to be sovereign and exist peacefully is debated, because barely any Israel supporters say Palestine should be wiped out, but a scary amount of Palestine supporters call for the death of the state of Israel.

It's a debate. I believe strongly that my stance is correct based on morals, facts and evidence, but I don't deny people their right to oppose me or believe Hamas is in the right. Even if Hamas are literally terrorists, I'll let anyone debate that. Also using the 'silence is complicit' argument has never worked in history, when German's just wanting to get through their lives under the Nazi regime weren't out protesting, it doesn't mean they wanted the death of all Jews, they just didn't want to die a horrible death for voicing it. In fact, the way people push supporting Palestine is very similar to the way the nazis were, since many people who speak up and say Israel is in the right, could lose their jobs, their social status, friends, family, get told to kill themselves, just for a difference in opinion. If I was part of a certain fanbase, or even better, if I was queer, and started voicing my opinions for Israel, I'd be called a fake member of the community, a traitor, an oppressor, told to kill myself, and be isolated from that community entirely.

I can't speak for all Israel supporters, many of whom think differently to me, but if you support Palestine, I'll watch movies with you, joke with you, play games with you, go on walks with you, go to restaurants, as long as you aren't some brainwashed incredibly headstrong supporter who refuses to acknowledge any difference in opinion. If you can even just tolerate that one difference, I'll happily get along with you.

One thing they're doing though, they're linking things like supporting Palestine with supporting human rights. I had a teacher who ran the debating club I was part of who taught us the basis of logical argument. An argument can be logical without being true, and the structure went like this; IF you support human rights, AND supporting human rights makes you Pro-Palestine, therefore you MUST support Palestine. I'm a literal example of why that framework is logical, but untrue. I support human rights, innocent victims of war, victims of genocide, but not Palestine. It's a way to rope in more people to their cause, by trying to play on peoples emotions rather than logic, to make the idea of refusing to support Palestine, an alienating, racist, bigoted thing to do, which just isn't true. Don't let people bully you into having certain beliefs. Form your own logical argument that IS true and contains evidence, to base your opinions on. For example, IF genocide is defined by the purposeful extermination of people based on race, ethnicity or other categorical factors, AND you accept that definition of genocide, as it is in the dictionary, therefore you MUST accept that Israel is not committing genocide, because based on the very definition you said you believe, it simply isn't happening, and if you agreed with that definition, then still believe that Israel is committing genocide, then your opinion is illogical and factually wrong, so either you believe they aren't committing genocide or you change the definition of the word, OR try debate that Israel is attempting to wipe out all Palestinians, to which all I have to say is, IF Israel has a weapons arsenal that could wipe out Gaza in minutes, AND Israel is attempting the extermination of all Palestinians, therefore Gaza MUST currently be flattened to the ground. Which it isn't. It really isn't that hard to debunk. Don't get brainwashed.

#israel #politics #palestine #gaza #current events #hamas

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kuronekonerochan · 6 months

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The whole fucking world stood by and watched as millions were spent in rescue efforts for half a dozen millionaires with a real countdown clock on their lives a few months ago.

We now witness a countdown clock in the fuel left in the generators of all the hospitals providing medical aid to an entire people while under constant bombings. A countdown to when every injured individual will become a casualty in a slow agonizing way because there will be no medical aid possible and the world does nothing. Nothing at all. If you can't reason with a genocidal state to let in water, food, medicine and fuel for the hospitals to keep running, maybe it's time to do it by force. Blue helmets, whatever is needed to rescue innocent civilians. But not even an economic sanction. The European Union (from where I'm from) is giving carte blanche to ethnic cleansing and genocide, while managing to lose all legitimacy to condemn Russia in the same stead (the part they did right). Having 2 criteria for war crimes makes the EU feel like a joke. We are in a fucking alliance for cooperation and peace and the Head Representative personally goes to Israel to give her support for genocide. I think every decent human being has lost any faith left in politics and politicians over the last few days. Scandals and corruption seem insignificant compared to this.

No, I don't trust our politicians, no they definitely are not representing me.

And they definitely do not work for the people when they agree to exterminate an entire people.

This is Nazism. Ethnic cleansing check. Collective punishment check. Confining millions in a war camp with no way to leave and committing genocide check.

And don't you dare call me antisemitic. I was not the one who chose to compare this to the Holocaust. The atrocities being committed by the Zionist State of Israel are the ones mirroring it. Do we have to wait until the body count is over the million mark to finally start calling it out?

Watching this happen live until there is no power left on the cameras and phones to keep recording what's happening is agonizing. But it feels as if people and politicians mostly are eagerly waiting for the eventual shutdown of coverage to put it all past them and move on as if nothing's happening. People will keep dying in the dark.

What is happening just shattered the fake mask of this "modern civilized world with human rights of 2023". Humans still have no rights apparently and I cannot fathom how people in conflict free zones are comfortable, compliant and complacent to this. How idiotfully jolly it must be to keep thinking that you will never in your lifetime have the tiniest chance of being treated like this in your western corner of the world. I for one can't live in that fantasy anymore. However improbable it seems now, I now know that there's a chance I will someday be denied water, food, medicine and shelter, isolated with no means of escape while missiles (or whatever future horror the warlords conjure) rain down on me and if I get injured there will be no medical aid and I might be left for dead in agony....and I now also now that while this happens free thinking first world democracies might be nodding along or purposefully looking away but none will help.

#gaza #free palestine #free gaza #palestine #israel #never antisemitic #but always #anti zionisim #anti war crimes #and for the defense of #human rights

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hero-israel · 6 months

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i know i'm stating the obvious but:

the thing that gets me is that. erasing jews' indigenity to the levant and casually claiming israel is committing genocide and apartheid… it's all untrue and completely wrong and horrible. and obviously that needs to be recognized.

but at this point there is a part of me that is like "it doesn't even matter whether or not israelis are Colonizers."

because even if it WAS true, even if israel was doing every horrible thing some of these people claim, NONE of that justifies celebrating rape, mass murder of civilians, child murder, and harassing and committing violence against jews globally.

i don't know how to talk to anyone who thinks labeling people "an oppressor" means you can justify anything to them, even war crimes and the worst kinds of human rights violations. i thought it was obvious that was unacceptable, at the very least among people who purport to care deeply about human rights.

i suppose it's naive of me, but it truly was a shocker to find out how much of the Left's commitment to human rights was a complete lie. i expected antisemitic responses in the form of "whataboutism," in downplaying what happened, and even denial, but not this. i thought there would be some people acting like hamas were oppressed freedom fighters and denying their atrocious tactics... i didn't expect SO MANY people to outright celebrate the horror.

i guess it's just making me realize how many of these people don't actually give a damn about human rights, about human suffering and justice, they care about being Right, and finding righteous targets to hate and attack. i always knew that existed, but i assumed that was a small, vocal minority mainly online. the rot goes so much deeper than i realized, and i have no idea what to do about it.

While it certainly does matter that the "colonizer" frame is a complete lie, you raise a good point about the significance of a supermassive surge in leftist advocacy for the death penalty and corrective rape. These are often the same people who want prisons and police abolished, but it turns out they held far more enthusiastic lust for gory revenge than your average Texas governor. They increasingly talk like abortion clinic bombers.

They have no principles, only a vocab list. Every woman Donald Trump grabbed was a colonizer, as were all the protestors Kyle Rittenhouse shot in Waukesha or James Fields rammed with his car in Charlottesville. John Wayne Gacy preferred targeting white males. It would take perhaps 3-6 words to make them into left-idpol heroes. What happens when a school shooter figures out to say "colonizer"? No, really. The man who beat Sarah Halimi to death in her Paris apartment said he saw Hebrew writing on her walls and it made him feel persecuted and oppressed.

#Leftist antisemitism

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some-triangles · 7 months

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Nobody needs my take on israel/palestine but I feel compelled to say something anyway, so under the cut it goes.

A week in, Israel is still blockading Gaza, cutting off supplies of food, water, medicine and fuel. The agreement they struck today to let a comically inadequate 20 truckloads of supplies in makes it clear to me that they have no intention of stopping. It seems undeniable that Israel is now politically committed to genocide, and not the slow kind it was already engaged in. I hope I am wrong.

China has been getting away with it in Xinjiang for years now, but China's too powerful to challenge. Azerbaijan is getting away with it in the Caucuses, but the world is distracted with Ukraine. Now Israel is doing it and the opinion pieces on CNN are about how the Geneva conventions are outmoded and should be discarded when engaging in modern counter-terrorism. I'm kind of shocked that they're even bothering to deny blowing up that hospital. We don't care anymore.

I knew this was how it was going to go. I knew "never again" stopped meaning anything a long time ago. I don't think I have the capacity to be shocked by humanity anymore. But some part of me is still grieving - not just because of the atrocities, which never stop, but because it's confirmation that this country we held up as exceptional is just another grubby little ethnostate, pretending to be a democracy but run by a man who is so corrupt that he can never afford to leave office, its racism written into law, its elites constitutionally entrenched. Azerbaijan is the right comparison. There is nothing special about Israel - founded on terrorism, legitimized and sustained by colonialism, propped up by its alliance with the American imperial sphere. Just another country.

It shouldn't surprise me that this is what the people who thought nationalism is what we needed to protect us from another shoah ended up building. They built it, it'll stand til the next world war, and much joy may it bring them, as it brings shame and violence on the rest of us. May their teeth rot in their heads.

#seriously don't even bother clicking through #it's just pain

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introvert-celeste · 6 months

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It's absolutely sickening seeing what new atrocities Israel is committing every day in Palestine, as well as all the disgusting people who support it. Their response is always "Hamas started it" and "October 7th," but:

1) Using Hamas as a way to justify the murder of Palestinian civilians is essentially islamophobic bullshit

2) Israel has been carrying out this blood feud for decades (since 1948 and even before), long before the Hamas existed (founded in 1987). Hamas did not start this.

3) Attacking hospitals and medical vehicles is literally a war crime, regardless of whether you suspect terrorists are occupying it.

4) I feel like it should be widely known that the way to deal with a hostage situation is to establish communication with the terrorist, de-escalate the situation, and negotiate for the hostages' safe return. Not bombing indiscriminately at where they think the terrorists are.

5) I am morally against killing anyone, save for the most heinous (cold blooded serial killers, serial rapists, etc.), but I'm especially against killing children. Killing children is never, ever justified, not even in retaliation. Last I heard, Israel has killed well over 4000 children in the last month. Absolutely sickening.

6) People are starting to deny that any of this is happening, which is exactly what happened during the Holocaust. We are witnessing a genocide is real time and people are denying its existence, or labeling all the deaths as terrorist kills.

Also, just to clarify, criticism of Israel doesn't mean criticism of all Jewish people, but of the Zionist extremists in power, just as Islamic terrorist groups don't represent all followers of Islam. I also feel for the Israeli hostages in this situation, of course, as well as the Israeli citizens who are stuck under this leadership. They don't deserve any of this. I just hope that all of this will end soon and that real justice--not indiscriminate killing--will be served.

#free palestine #politics #sorry for the rant so early in the day #i woke up this morning and could not keep it in anymore #my heart hurts every day for the people of palistine #it's killing me #there isn't much i can do but at least i can use my American right to free speech to speak my mind #none of this is up for debate by the way

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averyghe · 7 months

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As a Jewish person myself I should tell that I'm unable to not relate to what is happening now in Israel.

I also, can't deny simple facts. It's not the existence of Hamas, which created occupation of west bank as some are trying to put it. It's the occupation of Gaza which created Hamas in its present form. It's the years of silencing anyone in a pursuit for a creating of an approach for a peaceful coexistence with palestinians. Years of political killings, economical and trade blockades, terror-bombings of civilians, massacres of civilians by settlers, years of GENOCIDE. That's what created Hamas. People in Palestine didn't have an access to the goods, to the healthcare, they barely had an access to clean water, with Israel completely shutting its supply down after recent events.

It weren't some evil palestinians, which according to Israel's PM, should be erased from the face of earth, that created Hamas. It was Israel and it's apartheid itself.

I know many people from middle east. Many of them are my friends — palestinians included.

And I want to tell, even if it won't be much, I'm standing with you.

To my Jewish brothers and sisters in Israel, I could only say: you are fighting struggle that you created for yourself, abandoning god, compassion, and empathy, and developing fate in only power, in a gun, in the nuclear arms, and cruelty in the name of some illusionary utopia impossible to build with those things. You have steel, and fire on your side, but as long as you wont have kindness, you will struggle. As the violence breeds violence. And you were really successful, in the affair of this unholly husbandry.

Yes. I'm a Jew. And I'm praying for Palestine. Because I know what it means to hear explosions in the middle of the night, when you don't have "Iron dome" over yourself as Israelites do. Because my eardrums once we're shattered after the missile exploded over my head.

I'm praying for Palestine. That is all I want to tell you.

P.S. Whatever anyone could say. Israel is a major military power with nuclear arms. And Palestine is a small strip of land, half of the population of which are children. Not all of those people are even Muslim. They aren't represented by Hamas.

And Israels government calls those people human animals, openly calling for the genocide. And major western powers, encouraging them, giving them arms. GIVING ARMS TO THE STATE WHICH LITERALLY HAS AN ATOMIC BOMB ON ITS SIDE. No matter which atrocities Hamas commited, they are not representing Palestine. And it is important to note, that it all is a consequence of Israels apartheid policies, and ethnic cleanings.

That is all I wanted to say.

#this is not my usual content #and i dont know #to whom it is adressed exactly #palestine #israel

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luanna801 · 6 months

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I will make one post clarifying my stances on some things, because I want this on the record as context to everything I post on this subject in the future.

I do not support or take pleasure in the deaths of innocent Palestinian civilians. I also do not support or take pleasure in the deaths of innocent Israeli civilians. The fact that this has apparently become a controversial opinion or will get you accused of ""supporting genocide"" (despite saying literally exactly the opposite) is disgusting.

Hamas is a terrorist organization that has committed atrocities. I consider that a fact and not an opinion.

With that said, Netanyahu is a dangerous far-right demagogue whose government has perpetuated racism and war crimes. I do not deny or support this either.

I do not think abolishing the State of Israel is a viable solution to the current situation. I think it is antisemitic to demand that Jews take this position and assume that if we don't, we want to see violence and oppression against the Palestinians. Most of us want to see a peaceful two-state solution with an end to the violence. The people who advocate "wiping Palestine off the map" are disgusting racists and I want nothing to do with them.

It has been proven both through historical and archeological evidence and scientific genetic evidence that Jews are indigenous to the Levant. This means all ethnic Jews. Ashkenazi and Sephardi and Mizrahi. It does not make sense to say they have less right to their homeland than other indigenous groups. They also do not have more right. The fact that Palestinians were displaced to make room for Israel was wrong and is something that can never be fully recompensed, but we have to do what we can to make it right now and create a more equitable future.

In many ways, I'm struggling to understand the answers here. Mostly I'm heartbroken at the situation and at all the innocent people who have been killed or terrorized. None of them deserved it. I am also heartbroken seeing the people react to this situation with antisemitism or Islamophobia, dangerously misinformed pseudo-history, and hate. A lot of people have lost my trust. A lot more people I believe are sincerely well-intentioned but are going about this in extremely wrong-headed ways that are going to sow the seeds of hatred for generations.

Anyone who has a problem with anything I've said here is welcome to unfollow me. There is a lot I'm still struggling to find clarity on and understand how we can do our part in fixing this horrific situation. But at a basic minimum, we need to start from the understanding that both Israelis and Palestinians are human and their lives have equal value. I will not apologize for holding that opinion and I have no time for people who try to tell me that I shouldn't.

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luvmoonie · 19 days

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I find it weird that someone’s first instinct is to say I'm uneducated for not supporting israel. ive done a lot of research and to say so is to take away the integrity of having a debate, instead of just being upset i don't agree with you. why is it wrong to say that israel should not have occupation over gaza? if it emboldened hamas would we not just fight against hamas instead of killing innocent civilians in the name of doing so?

to say that me saying 'it was sixth months ago' is calloused and that i'm saying everyone should get over it, is to completely misinterpret my point, so the irony of people to tag misinformation is astounding. What I meant is that to still argue that what israel are doing: starving people, killing over 30000, bombing homes and hospitals, is not easily justified with the argument of october 7th anymore, as it is completely outweighed by their inhumane genocidal actions.

There’s no denying that it was wrong and horrific, but there's even people doubting israel's claimed death toll of that day, alongside many other claims they put out. Whilst there is also speculation of claims from gaza, the claims of the idf torturing and raping prisoners alongside the rest of their actions, makes it seem weird and callous to me to argue that killing palestinians is right for this event. and yes, of course the focus is on hostages still in gaza, but is this israel's focus? what about them killing people not even involved. i’ve heard many say palestinians are not innocent also, because they voted hamas, which is the most cruel and unjust thing ive ever heard.

So, to say I have a lack of understanding is really one sided, as you clearly have a bias, and so do your rebloggers who are claiming im antisemitic when there is no claim in any of my posts that is against jews. Where in my posts is it untrue or incorrect? id really like to know because nowhere have i showed a lack of concern for lives, in fact i openly condemn the actions of hamas. maybe you all need to self reflect, because you seem to lack any consideration for the innocent palestinians if it means israel get to retaliate for hamas' actions? my original post regarding this was about the ignorance of the us and the military side of this, as this is clearly a political issue that many are projecting onto. ( which we can see with how iran have retaliated and how the uk have responded ) I'm not antisemitic, nor do i condone the killing of jews in israel. for you to say so baffles me with your narrow sighted view and complete disregard for anything ive said. it seems to me that many who have seen my post have an agenda, and are desperate to show that me being pro-palestine makes me antisemitic and pro-hamas.

I understood that making a post like this would incite many to argue for the sake of arguing, and many to completely misinterpret my words to make their point. Still, I hope you can find it in yourselves to be as sympathetic to the lives of those suffering in palestine as you are to those in israel. Please take a break from the internet and look around you to realise that this is not people discriminating against jews, it’s people being against the genocide Israel is committing with the desire for both sides to be free from this conflict.

@jewishlivesmatter I can’t tag you or even reblog your post, suggesting you’ve blocked me or something similar. This shows the propaganda and biased view you’re attempting to portray, which is really harmful if you agree with others that palestinians are not innocent and deserve this. Do better, if you’re going to spew such hatred, atleast be open to debate. 🫠 I would love to message you and actually talk about something so serious, or even reblog but clearly that was not your intent with this!

( @meandtherodentinthewall @jewishbarbies @fnafcraze1991 @jewishlivesmatter )

#free palestine #zionism #genocide #palestine #free gaza #israel #lives matter but only if they’re jewish?#do palestinians deserve this genocide? according to you guys #do better #if you ever feel guilty for not being able to help with what is happening #atleast know you aren’t supporting genocide

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joemerl · 4 months

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Okay! So, a few days ago, a pro-Palestinian picture came on my dash with the "river to the sea" slogan. This naturally led to me debating a lot of people in the comments, one of whom, @hvly asked me to back up my assertions with sources. I decided to do this in a separate post because a.) makes it easier to post a bunch of links, b.) the original artist took down the picture, and c.) I recently read how many on the pro-Palestinian side lack a lot of context on the conflict, so I figured this could serve as a general resource.

(Not linking to the original artist, but if he sees this, I do apologize if it seemed like I was attacking you, or if all the arguing just stressed you out. It was a cute picture and I trust that you didn't mean anything by it, but my point here is that a lot of well-intentioned people don't get the nuances of this issue.)

I'm not sure which of my arguments Hvly wanted evidence for, so I'll just try to be thorough.

Why is the "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" slogan anti-Semitic?

Because it is a call for the elimination of Israel. A two-state solution would involve Palestine and Israel in the space between the (Jordan) River to the (Mediterranean) Sea. If Palestine takes up that whole area, what happened to Israel and its 10 million inhabitants, 7 million of whom are Jewish? I don't think Palestine is gonna give them citizenship, in case the October 7th massacre didn't make that clear.

It's also worth noting that "will be free" is not the only variation on this chant. Especially early on, it was often "Palestine is Arab" or "is Islamic." Can't really deny that those are about excluding Jews (and/or Arab Christians, Druze, etc.)

Put another way: imagine if in the United States, we popularized the phrase "from the Canadian border to South America, the U.S. will be free!" Sounds great, right? Nothing wrong with freedom! But, wait...how do Mexico and Central America fit into this geography? And oh, yeah, the people promoting this slogan are the KKK, and the first draft was that the U.S. would be "white." Would you pooh-pooh a Hispanic person who found this kinda racist? Then why are Jews different?

I appreciate that many Westerners want this phrase to be about freeing Palestinians from Israel's supposed occupation (we'll get to that in a minute). But it's not. It's about killing Jews.

Are you sure? Has Hamas ever SAID they want to kill all Jews/Israelis?

Yes. Right here. Right after they killed, raped and terrorized them on a Jewish holiday.

It's also in their official charter. Contrast the Israeli Declaration of Independence, which calls for peace between it and its neighbors. (They declared war the day after it was signed.)

But isn't Israel trying to genocide the Palestinians too?

"Genocide" means that you're trying to kill every member of a race within a certain area. So if Israel wants to "genocide" the Palestinians, dropping pamphlets warning them to seek shelter seems like a poor strategy.

Israel is not trying to kill civilians. They're trying to kill Hamas—which, as established, does want to commit genocide. Unfortunately, this is urban warfare, and Hamas' strategy is to use Palestinian civilians as human shields. So yes, a lot of Palestinian civilians are dying. That doesn't make Israel the bad guy. At least 1.5 million German civilians died in World War II, but that doesn't mean the Allies were wrong to overthrow the Nazis, let alone that they were trying to "genocide" them.

But isn't Hamas only trying to throw off Israel's occupation?

Gaza hasn't been occupied since 2005. That was 18 years ago. A child born the day of the disengagement would now be in college, listening to people protest the non-existent occupation.

Israel didn't even withdraw due to a peace treaty; they had no promise that this would stop Palestinian terrorism. They withdrew in the desperate hope that it would bring peace. Instead, the Palestinians elected Hamas, which, as we've ascertained, wants to genocide all Jews.

What would a ceasefire mean?

In the short term, Israel would stop bombing Gaza. Good for the Palestinians, in theory. But Hamas would remain in power, and immediately start gathering strength again. Which means that within a few years, they'd attack Israel again, and there'll be another war, killing people on both sides.

Also, the 100+ Israeli hostages—including women and children—will remain in Gaza. After all, if Israel gives Hamas what they want for nothing, why should they send them back?

Anyway, that's all I have time for. If anyone still wants to argue, I'll be incommunicado until at least tomorrow night. Have a peaceful Saturday.

#Israel #Palestinians #Hamas #Palestine #Pro-Palestinian #Terrorism #Operation Iron Swords #Ceasefire #Ceasefire Now #(because Hamas surrenders)#Stop the Genocide #(by Hamas against the Jews)#Just gonna put this in all the tags that I'm arguing against.

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haberdashing · 4 months

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I know I'm far from the first to compare what's happening in Gaza to the Holocaust, but I visited a local Holocaust museum today and one particular comparison struck me that I haven't seen much talk about.

See, people say that Gaza's like the Holocaust, because... genocide, and then the other side goes "nuh-uh, this isn't like the camps at all!"

And there's some truth to that. This is not the systematic mass murder of the gas chambers and death camps, nor is it the forced labor until death found in the work camps.

But there's another, much better-fitting Holocaust parallel here, if you just look slightly earlier in the timeline of genocide there.

See, here's the situation in Gaza, as I understand it:

The people in power ("oppressors") have decided that a certain race of people ("oppressed") within one specific part of the land they control cannot be trusted. This decision is, ostensibly, linked to various horrible crimes committed against the oppressors by individuals within the oppressed class; the truth behind the alleged crimes is arguable, but suffice it to say that even if the worst claims are true, they still do not even come close to justify subjecting an entire race of people to the ensuing mistreatment in return.

So, the oppressors designate one specific piece of land to be an area for the oppressed race to live by taking away their right to own property or even just to exist outside of that bit of land. A bit of land that, mind you, really isn't big enough for the population of people being forced to live there, inevitably leading to overcrowding and various resultant problems. The oppressors know this; they just either don't care or actually desire the suffering caused by this overcrowding.

Walls are built around this piece of land. The identification papers for all of its residents clearly signify that they are of the oppressed race, and that their civil liberties are to be curtailed because of it. Passage of people to and from this piece of land is heavily restricted, as is the movement of goods of all kinds in and out of its walls.

The exchange of information in and out of the land is restricted to some extent, too, but this isn't as easy to enforce as preventing escapees--and even there, the odd escape does happen too. The bigger piece of the puzzle regarding why people don't speak out about the oppressed being mistreated is the oppressors' propaganda machine working hard to ensure that people just... don't look too closely. Because who cares about the suffering of those people, anyway?

So, the most straightforward means of outright genocide from here are either attacking the residents of that small piece of land directly or forced movement so they can be slaughtered--sorry, "resettled"--elsewhere. But the quieter, more subtle method of genocide is just... preventing food and other essentials from passing through those walls, letting the overcrowding get worse and worse over time, denying medical treatment and other humanitarian aid to the oppressed people in desperate need of such assistance, and then sitting back and watching them slowly die off.

So no, Gaza isn't the camps. That much is true.

Gaza is the ghetto. Israel just remade the Warsaw ghetto.

Then they're surprised and outraged when the people of Gaza engage in even the most minor acts of rebellion in response, even as Israelis sing the praises of the Warsaw uprising in that other ghetto less than a century ago.

#personal #gaza #holocaust #obligatory disclaimer that i myself am jewish #sad that i feel the need to specify that but... yeah #this is anti-israel and anti-zionist not anti-semitic

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nochd · 3 months

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I haven't said anything about the Gaza situation mainly because you should be listening to people who know more about it than I do. But it's becoming apparent that this is one of those issues where people who do have personal stakes in the matter are finding it difficult to know who they can trust.

So here's what I do know about Gaza, Israel, and Palestine. I'm not going to talk any more than I can help about what I don't know. And -- let me make this super clear -- people commenting on social media, including here, to make factual claims intended to draw me to their side and treat some other category of people as my enemies, does not count as a change in my state of knowledge.

The Israeli state right now is attempting to wipe the Palestinian population of Gaza off the map. This is called genocide.

On 7 October, Hamas publicly attacked civilian targets in a manner calculated to cause widespread fear and panic. This is called terrorism.

Nothing justifies either of these actions, not even each other. The killing of innocent people is never justified by their being of the same ethnicity or nationality as some other person who is guilty of an atrocity.

Even if an innocent person benefits in some fashion from atrocities committed by another person -- as one could argue that the citizenry of a colonizer state do -- that doesn't justify violence against them. At most they might reasonably be asked to contribute to some kind of reparations.

Jews and Palestinians can both reasonably be described as indigenous to the land.

In terms of the Israeli state's actions towards the Palestinian people, and the benefits it thereby accrues, it is to all practical intents and purposes a colonizer state.

If you think the previous point justifies terror attacks on Israeli civilians, and you're a white person living in the US or Australia or Canada or South Africa or Aotearoa... then boy oh boy do I have news for you.

Most Israelis have nowhere else to go. Israel might accept Jewish immigrants without requiring them to renounce their previous citizenship, but that's because so often that previous citizenship is revoked or cancelled or at least made non-viable by their former country.

Fascist groups in the West hate both Jews and Muslims and are happy to spread hateful misinformation about either under the guise of standing up against atrocities. They are smart enough, much as we might wish otherwise, to infiltrate leftist communities if we are not vigilant.

Violent attacks on Jewish communities around the world have gone up by over an order of magnitude since October.

Most Jews, including Israeli Jews, oppose what Israel is doing in Gaza right now.

I'm not comfortable with framing the issue in terms of whether the state of Israel "has the right to exist". Israeli people, like all people, have the right to exist and live in peace. States are artificial entities, not conscious beings with the capacity to flourish or suffer, and it makes little sense to regard them as having "rights".

States do, however, have duties and responsibilities. The primary responsibility of any state, the reason why we have such things as states at all, is to defend its people's right to live in peace.

For people to live in peace, their country has to be at peace, which means that the state's duty to defend its people includes the duty to make peace when possible. The state of Israel is grossly, chronically derelict in this side of its duty.

On 7 October Israel was about to sign a peace treaty with Saudi Arabia. Hamas's attack was timed to disrupt that treaty.

Hamas of all people knows how Israel habitually responds to terror attacks. They cannot have been expecting any response much different from the one they got. From this I am forced to conclude that Hamas prefers a genocidal war against their own people to a peace in which Israel is still there.

Hamas denies the Holocaust and promotes the fraudulent "Protocols of the Elders of Zion". A Western group who did that would be uncontroversially described as neo-Nazis.

The Houthis in Yemen, who are opposing shipments of aid to Israel, have slogans including "death to Israel, a curse upon the Jews". Again, any Western group who did that would be considered neo-Nazis.

Of the people who use the slogan "from the river to the sea", the percentage who use it to invoke a call for genocide against Israelis is neither 100% nor 0%.

There is a certain word beginning with Z which you'll notice I haven't used in this post. This is because it is a dangerously ambiguous word. Some people use it in the legitimate, specific political sense of "Israeli nationalism". Others use it to mean "any restraint or moderation in considering how to respond to Israel's actions". Still others use it to mean "an absence of antisemitism".

The US is an ally and supporter of Israel. I do not know the political reasons why. Wrapping those unknown reasons up in a bundle and labelling it with the aforementioned Z-word adds nothing to my understanding.

Some component of the US's support for Israel comes not from Jewish people or their allies but from Evangelical Christians concerned with Israel chiefly as a site of apocalyptic prophecy. I do not know what weighting this component has in the total mix of the US's politics.

Some people argue for a one-state solution, with Israelis and Palestinians as equal citizens. Some people argue for a two-state solution where each group has its own government and laws. For each, I have seen the claim that it is the only possible solution made with great confidence by people who know more about the situation than I do. I do not know which side is correct.

I do know that any proposal where one group just isn't there any more is a non-solution.

#israel #palestine #gaza

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