#i am not good at writing about ragyo because she disgusts me so much

[nonsensical-stars]

The Brainwashing of Ryuko - A Bloodied Wedding Dress (EP 20)

Trigger Warning // R*pe, sexual assault Nui stitches Junketsu's life fibers together with the life fibers inside of Ryuko's body. From a metaphorical standpoint, we could argue that this is some acute foreshadowing to Ragyo's control (Junketsu's life fibers) mixing up with Ryuko's memories (her own life fibers), with her past, and with everything she stands for... and eventually overwriting them. Ryuko loses grip, and Ragyo, very deliberately, hits her weakest point during her most psychologically vulnerable state. Through Junketsu, Ragyo is now able to pry into Ryuko's deepest subconscious. To reach her biggest wishes and desires, her best and worst memories, the core of what makes Ryuko, Ryuko. Now, Ragyo knows all about the deep loneliness of little Ryuko. About the neglect, the bullying - the desire for a damn parent. And so, Ragyo uses this knowledge to her advantage. Just at a horrifying moment when Ryuko has no idea who she is, what her past truly meant, and what she's really fighting for... Ragyo eagerly barges in to fill those gaps for Ryuko. She creates an illusion of Ryuko's most desired reality, and plants fake memories in her head - overwriting her real, painful ones. We see images of little Ryuko during important events of her life, such as her birthday, or her first day of school. Images of Ryuko playing outside, and going to her first ever prom. Now, what's common about these fake memories? About the memories she wished she could have had? Her mom was with her. In Ryuko's real life, she was abandoned at an orphanage by her father, and never knew her mother. So Ragyo gave her a feigned illusion of what she wanted most of all things; a loving parent to celebrate her birthday with. A parent to cheer her on during her football matches, a parent in the audience to watch her school plays. A parent to hug. I believe that all of that pain was pictured through a bloodied wedding dress. Deep down, it truly hurt Ryuko that whenever she'd get married, nobody would be there to walk her down the aisle. She's so damn strong, but deep down, Ryuko is still an abandoned, scared, lonely child who needed love. So Ragyo corrupts her head with memories of Ragyo giving her exactly that. And poor Ryuko... poor Ryuko caves. She is going to fight for her parent who gave her that love, and all those who dare to stand against her...she's going to fight for the life she's always wanted. All according to plan. As this is established, Ragyo (and Nui joins in too, YIKES) then proceeds to r*pe Ryuko, in the midst of brainwashing her into servitude and dependence using all of these good memories. Why? Why was that necessary, Ragyo? Was the whole overwriting of her memory not enough, did you have to pepper in some lifelong trauma to seal the brainwashing? Well.. unfortunately, other than just being a disgusting individual who gets a kick out of controlling others, there is one more reason. She is r***ing Ryuko while simultaneously corrupting her mind with all of these joyful memories. And so, she is conditioning Ryuko into associating the r*** with good memories. Ragyo wants Ryuko to believe that all these icky things are part of the happiness Ryuko wants so badly. This also very much explains why a brainwashed Ryuko kissed Nui. 

..... (this was written by my cat who walked over my keyboard, so imma just leave it here) It is implied that this aforementioned event too, is a false memory planted into Ryuko’s head. Still, whether it really happened or not, it was the last straw that truly pushed Ryuko over the edge. Because shortly after this, episode 20 ends and Ryuko fully surrenders to Junketsu’s influence. To evil. All according to plan.

#ok but junketsu!ryuko in the next episode deserves a whole new rant/analysis #specifically how ryuko managed to break free from said evil #fucking hell man #star's ramblings #analysis #i am not good at writing about ragyo because she disgusts me so much #kill la kill #kill la kill analysis #klk #kill la kill essay #kill la kill writing #ryuko matoi #junketsu

[marshmallowgoop]

On Ragyo Kiryuin

Please note: This post will contain discussions of sexual assault and abuse.

I am not good at talking about Ragyo Kiryuin.

Every time I do, I mess it up. I don’t emphasize her atrocities enough. I emphasize her atrocities too much. I cause trouble for myself and others, and I always end up feeling awful.

My recent writing on Ragyo’s character—found here and here—proved no different. The reception for the first post was so overwhelmingly negative that it spurred on my first-ever legitimate anon hate, and the second post only made things worse. Even now, my inbox is being filled with dismissive, rude, heartbreaking messages that bring me to tears, and though my therapist has told me not to say that I hate myself anymore, it’s difficult not to in situations like these. I hate that my wording was so poor and that I stated my opinion so badly that I incited all this rage and aggression in someone (or someones, a thought that scares me more than I would like to admit).

It may be a mistake to try to explain myself further. But I hurt people with what I said, and that bothers me. I hurt people because I struggle to explain my feelings on a cartoon character well, and I’m sorry. I’m embarrassed. I’m ashamed. I want to at least put in the effort to be kinder, more nuanced, and more sympathetic.

And maybe it’ll all blow up in my face. But I don’t want to not try.

So. Ragyo Kiryuin. Mother of Satsuki Kiryuin and Ryuko Matoi, CEO of REVOCS, and the ultimate Big Bad of Kill la Kill. Love her, hate her, or love her and hate her, she’s certainly made an impression in the anime-viewing world. And though I can’t speak for anyone else’s impression, my personal impression is... mixed.

Let’s go through this bit by bit.

A Good Villain?

Though I don’t see it much anymore, I remember lots of comparisons between Ragyo and the villains of Saturday morning cartoons back in the day. She was described as a generic, two-dimensional “evilz for the sake of evilz” baddie and criticized for her simplicity.

And though I did admittedly agree to an extent—I craved a lot more depth and insight, particularly in regards to her haunting line about “still having something of a human heart” whilst brutally attacking her own daughter in the final episode—I also found Ragyo to be a remarkably compelling, powerful, and horrifying villain even without tons of backstory and explanation. Perhaps my write-up on her first scene in episode 6 best details why; this woman has such a presence, and the visual language of the series amplifies that presence spectacularly. Ragyo’s intimidating and scary without the audience even needing to know anything about her.

And... I’d say that’s a good villain. That’s exactly what a villain should do.

Why Does This Matter, Goop?

I know, I know. My talking about Ragyo’s efficiency as a villain probably doesn’t seem all that relevant to the stuff that egged on an anon hate assault. But I think it’s important to mention that I do believe that Ragyo is a great, powerful villain. My previous posts were so bleak and cynical that I didn’t make this point clear. It does, in retrospect, seem as though I am crapping all over the character and subtly dissing anyone who enjoys her. I’m sorry for that, and I want to stress that that was not at all my intention.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with loving villains—even when they’re morally bankrupt, atrocious people like Ragyo—because loving villains, of course, doesn’t automatically mean that you excuse or endorse their actions. Villains like Ragyo also leave such a strong impression on the viewers, and personally, I’ve been so captivated by this awful woman that my first attempt at my years-in-the-making Kill la Kill fairytale AU featured about a 30,000-word backstory for her. There is a lot to respect, love, and love to hate when it comes to Ragyo and how she’s written, and I never, ever mean to discount that.

However, as with all things, it’s possible to love a piece of fiction or a character or what have you and also recognize that there are problems in the portrayal. And when it comes to Ragyo, as much as I think she’s a fantastic, engaging, terrifying villain, I do take issue with her depiction.

The Sexuality Point

I got a lot of heat for my ideas regarding Ragyo’s sexuality, and I admit: I didn’t express myself well. There was a lot more I should have said and elaborated upon. Maybe I’ll still fail spectacularly, but as I said before, I don’t want to not try.

So first, I want to take a moment to discuss intentionality. While I absolutely value Author is Dead and respect fan interpretations of any work, I also recognize that narrative decisions in fiction don’t happen in a vacuum. The fact of the matter is, Ragyo was originally designed as a father but was later changed to a mother so the relationships Ragyo shares with her daughters wouldn’t seem so “murky,” “gross,” and “perverted.”

And... that disturbs me. The idea, as I see it, is that a father abusing his daughters is, more than appropriately, disgusting, but a mother abusing her daughters is somehow less bad. In fact, writer Kazuki Nakashima outright states that he didn’t want to explore the “murkiness” of these relationships, noting that he “didn’t want to mix [that] ‘murkiness’ into the battle.” My impression—which I understand might very well be wrong—is that there’s the feeling that female-on-female abuse just isn’t as serious or life changing as male-on-female abuse. There’s the feeling that you can just not talk about how devastating this sexual assault is, and that’s totally okay, because the perpetrator is a woman.

I’ve written previously—and perhaps most overtly here—that female-on-female abuse seems to get brushed off way more than it should be. It’s cute when a girl grabs another girl’s boobs, even when that other girl is noticeably and visibly unhappy. It’s adorable when a girl forces a kiss on another girl. Charming. Sweet. If you have a problem with it, you’re a homophobe.

And I think that’s so, so damaging. I wish I had some statistics (oh anon hounding me about facts, if you’re here), but I recall reading about how this mindset—this idea that girls just can’t hurt other girls—ends up keeping wlw in abusive, toxic relationships. And that’s not even mentioning how the notion that women are harmless and can’t do damage is a totally sexist one that hurts men and other genders, too!

With Ragyo, I actually think there’s a lot of powerful potential. Kill la Kill could have shown that there’s nothing sweet or cute or charming or sexy about female-on-female abuse. It could have shown that a mother sexually abusing her daughters is just as horrific as a father sexually abusing his daughters. Both good representation and bad representation are important, and I do see the value in an evil, awful lesbian; as noted above, the idea that girls can’t hurt other girls, that wlw can’t be bad, and that only men can cause harm is a dangerous mindset to have. I think it’s important to address it, particularly in anime, which attracts younger viewers.

In the past, I argued that Kill la Kill did address it. I wrote, “These scenes [depicting Ragyo’s abuses] are full of what may be typically used as fanservice—female nudity, fondling, touching—but they’re all incredibly disturbing, uncomfortable, painful, and tragic. The series makes no joke about just how violating these instances are.” I’ve seen similar arguments made today. 

But personally, now knowing more about the creation of Ragyo and being aware of the gushy, “Wow, this is so hot!”-type comments concerning the notorious bath scene in the official Trigger Magazine, I’ve since changed my tune. I think it’s undeniable that there is some “this isn’t so bad and maybe actually kinda sexy” appeal to Ragyo’s abuses, and that’s very, very disappointing to me. 

Further, being a survivor, I also find it incredibly hurtful. I’ve been too traumatized to even date ever since what happened to me happened, and to see situations like what I went through depicted in such explicit, detailed, fanservice-y ways... it disturbs me.

I understand that my opinion isn’t going to be shared by everyone, but I’ve come to believe in a “less is more” approach when it comes to these hard, real situations. Implication arguably holds far more power. For example, in all of my college film classes, Osama left one of the strongest impressions. In it, a young girl dresses as a boy to provide for her family. She’s eventually found out when she has her first period, and she’s then married off to a much older man. The ending scene of the film depicts the man washing himself just as the girl, in disguise as a boy, had been taught to do after having sex. Unlike in Kill la Kill, you don’t see the unspeakable scene at all. You know exactly what happened with just that one shot, and that one shot has stuck with me ever since. That’s a powerful, respectful way of portraying these very real, very horrific problems.

I know I cannot speak for every survivor, but I personally disagree with the notion that fiction should not discuss these topics. In my mind, fiction absolutely should because these things are real, because they happen. There could have been so much power in Ragyo’s depiction, in Satsuki’s depiction, in Ryuko’s. But the severity of Ragyo’s abuses is brushed off, and, as I see it, fetishized. That’s what I take issue with—not that there’s a potential evil lesbian, not that there’s a depiction of a mother abusing her daughters, but how this is depicted: not respectfully.

Referring more to my troublesome posts, I also want to address my point of how girls showing affection for other girls is often portrayed negatively in Kill la Kill, which could potentially send the message, “Hey, lesbians just be evilz.” Perhaps more than anything else, this hurt my readers the most. I wasn’t very clear and didn’t speak well, and I apologize.

Maybe surprisingly, I’ve also taken issue with the argument that Ryuko kissing Nui shows that a girl having an attraction towards another girl is bad. As I saw it, the kiss was simply a shocking way of showing that Ryuko is not at all herself; someone kissing the person they hate the most says more than words ever could. The scene isn’t an attack on wlw; the protagonist and the villain in this case just so happen to both be girls.

And I still believe this rebuttal. But I also have mixed feelings, which explains my previous responses. I once more have to question intentionality: if Ryuko were a boy, as shonen heroes so often are, would this scene have happened? Would Nui have been so flirty with him? Would there have been so much screen time and detail put into the kiss? Similar to my arguments about Ragyo, could there have been a potentially much more powerful scene whose power comes from its implications, not what it actually shows?

In all my years in the Kill la Kill fandom, I’ve seen reactions to that scene that find it hot, as “proving” that Ryuko/Nui is the only canon Kill la Kill pairing, and that see it in ways that I find to be unsavory. If the goal of that kiss is to cement the fact that Ryuko isn’t herself in the most shocking way possible, I could argue that it failed for a lot of viewers. In fact, one of my more looked-at posts is about why Ryuko kisses Nui. Its execution is confusing, and yes, I do believe it could potentially send some bad messages about wlw, even if that wasn’t intended.

Which, to bring this discussion back towards Ragyo, I want to take a moment to say that bad messages can be totally unintentional. As a writer myself, I think about potential bad unintentional messages all the time. For instance, in my aforementioned fairytale AU, I had a theme going (’cause it’s a fairytale and all): a healthy, beautiful baby is good, a healthy, ugly baby is bad, and an unhealthy, beautiful baby is good. Notice how there’s only one ugly baby, and they’re bad? I realized that this could subtly say something about ugly people, and I’ve decided to make a point about a heroic character being ugly in order to send the message that anyone can be good or bad, regardless of if they’re beautiful or ugly, healthy or unhealthy.

With Ragyo (and with Nui as well), I don’t at all think the intention is to show that girls loving other girls is wrong and bad. But the depiction, to me, leaves things to be desired. A lot of it feels fetishy, and the fact that Ragyo was purposely changed to a woman for “gross” concerns also greatly irks me.

And before I try to write up a conclusion of sorts, I do want to offer this: what if Ragyo stayed a man, but he was associated with white and rainbows as Ragyo is in the final cut? It was stated at this year’s Anime Expo that director Hiroyuki Imaishi has his heroic characters in black and villainous characters in white, which could possibly send messages like Darkness Isn’t Bad and the real villains are the ones who are perverting the purity, goodness, and so on that are associated with white. In the same way, if Ragyo were a man who seemed straight but had rainbow hair, it could send the message that the real villain is the one perverting this symbol of love and acceptance.

I don’t know. Just some food for thought.

Conclusion

I am bad at talking about Ragyo. I am bad at talking about serious topics. I’m sure this post proves as much.

But I hope I’ve done a better job of explaining my point of view than I did before. But if I didn’t—which, knowing me, is likely—I just want everyone to know that I don’t think you’re a reprehensible person if you like Ragyo. I don’t think Ragyo is “too evil” to be representation. I don’t think she’s some terrible, awful character whom nobody can love. (At least, in regards to the writing. I hope there’s agreement that she’s a terrible, awful person.)

While I have problems with Ragyo’s depiction, I don’t think anyone is horrible and wrong if they don’t and resonate with it. I know I certainly like things that others find horrible and wrong, like the Ryuko/Senketsu pairing that I’ve been attacked left and right for, and I more than recognize and voice my own problems with it whilst still loving what I love (and politely disagreeing with the problems that others see that I don’t!)

I know I’m not good at this. But I hope I’ve conveyed my thoughts respectfully, and that, even if you strongly disagree, you know I welcome and am open to your thoughts and perspective, if you would like to share. That’s why I write these posts at all.

#kill la kill #ragyo kiryuin #analysis #ragyo discourse #ramblings #serious talk #the discourse #abuse mention #i'm sorry if this is awful i just got it confirmed that i do have adhd and hyper-focused on this even though i shouldn't have #and i haven't eaten all day 'cause i've been dying to finish this and i've spent several hours on it and... i'm trying #i'm sorry but i really really am trying

[marshmallowgoop]

This isn’t something I should have edited together.

But here it is: all the messages I’ve received in the last month or so that are mean spirited and/or really hurt me (no matter how well intentioned they may have been).

After all my years of feeling invisible and like no one cares, I think I’m finally getting somewhere. I’m not just being insulted behind my back anymore.

A Tweet: sometimes following the klk tag is good and nice and sometimes you get an essay on why ryuko and senketsu are in love

by the same blog, who is upset that this is not a popular ship

I’m more worth it than ever to be insulted straight to my face.

Transcript under the cut.

EDIT: I’ve explained my reasons for posting this collage here.

“You realize some of us don’t have Tumblr accounts, we’re coming over from what we heard in the Discord, right? Surprised the self-professed shirtfucker lore god didn’t think of that. Don’t trip over your massive brain since you ‘write stuff, at times’.”

“Ragyo’s bath scene was anti-fanservice. She’s disgusting, but it’s meant to turn the gross ass men off from her that would normally be pulled into that. As much as Ryuko and Satsuki are independent, strong lesbian women, so is Ragyo. She’s completely on the wrong side, morally, but geez Goop. Get it together with your points on her. I get that she’s not Senketsu but c’mon. Disappointed because I expected different.”

“senketsu raped ryuko in their first scene together. shipping them is gross.”

“If you have to outline the technical definition of ‘rape’ as it applies to a ship, it’s a bad ship. I thought you were better than this, Goop :(”

“on the fence about whether you have any fucking brain cells at all at this point”

“goops, you’re starting to stoop to the level of those that are bugging you. your last reply came off as super patronizing. i love you dude, but seeing you become as big headed as the haters is disappointing. get well soon.”

“’to quote steven universe’“

“no wonder your headcanons are so unpopular. This whole blog is a bad take

All of the women (except Sukuyo) are gay coded in that show, including the villains. It’s completely unrealistic to except them to cater to your clothesexual Kindergarten bullshit. You watched a different show than the rest of us.”

“You’re so butthurt about this Ragyou thing. Get over yourself. So what, your takes on her are shit. Talk about what you know you can write about successfully then.”

“Senketsu was made using pieces of Ryuko’s DNA. Shipping them borders on incest, it’s pretty fucked.”

“Some of us lesbians want diversity in our representation. We don’t want them all to be perfect, and we accept that we can have representation that isn’t moral just like every other sexuality. You can’t speak for everyone, especially as a non-lesbian, and declare Ragyo unfit for being a gay character. Go back to talking about the talking shirt.

LET US HAVE RAGYO WHAT THE FUCK

your latest take really hurts me, goop. i started following you awhile ago because i love kill la kill. but as a lesbian and someone that loves ragyo (while not excusing her) your claim that she is ‘too evil’ to be representation for me and my people really turns me off of this blog.

Should’ve stuck with what you know. You obviously aren’t aware of the symbolism behind Ragyo and anything about her beyond her calling Senketsu ugly.”

“Goop, giving a Tumblr link on the topic of gene splicing is the equivalent of getting your degree from the back of a cereal box. I have to agree with the other anons on Senketsu/Ryuko.”

“I can assure you no one thinks you’re a man lmfao”

“That feel when senketsu will still inevitably die at the end of the series and ryuko moves on like she’s intended to, because girls can’t wear their sailor uniforms forever. And then she goes on a date with mako.”

“we don’t give a shit if you think ryumako is intended because it’s clear you and your writing are incredibly biased and angled to support your own ship. nice try.”

“usually i agree with many of your takes, but your recent ragyo one is Not That Good, goop”

Sent on October 17th, 2019, at 9:45:45 am: “You could play cringe bingo with this blog, omg. Tag yourself, I’m marginalized Senketsu”

Sent on September 22nd, 2019 at 6:12:00 am: “She shouts his name because she’s talking to him.”

Sent on September 27th, 2019, at 8:31:37 am: “🚂[train emoji] - the sexual assault theme when senketsu forces himself upon ryuko when they first meet. inb4 you come up with some headass explanation as to why it isn’t a sexual assault-geared scene lmfao”

Sent on September 21st, 2019, at 6:47:06 pm: “SENKETSU BEING OPPRESSED AND MARGINALIZED? how many people actually know he exists? not enough for him to be oppressed. comparing this to what the anons were talking about before, idk what you think oppression is.”

Sent on September 23rd, 2019, at 5:47:32 pm: “yeah right, and you have a degree in journalism and creative writing. fat chance on tumblr. at least find something published with actual citations if you want to use it as gospel. but then again, sloppy writing through some heavy ass shipper goggles, what a surprise.”

Sent on September 21st, 2019, at 6:40:42 pm: “comparing the attractiveness of a human versus a piece of sentient clothing? that’s beyond apples to oranges.”

Sent on September 22nd, 2019, at 3:31:08 am: “You tagged them as being the most canon a few posts ago, Goop. Maybe you should take a rest, some of these replies are getting convoluted.”

Sent on October 17th, 2019, at 4:57:52 pm: “AU where you have good takes”

Sent on October 14th, 2019, at 4:43:14 pm: “’Face me in klk IF’ cringe”

Sent on October 16th, 2019, at 1:28:30 pm: “ryuko is physical with senketsu because he’s her fucking shirt. this is getting hilarious, holy shit. they were right.”

Sent on October 29th, 2019, at 7:40:48 am: “You’ve been too busy sucking your own dick to post anything too embarrassing probably.”

Sent on October 14th, 2019, at 6:11:04 pm: “’Demonization of men’ we have gone full headass now, there’s now turning back.”

Sent on October 16th, 2019, at 2:37:06 pm: “Not everyone sends you comments because of the Ragyo issue, don’t lump everyone together. Some of us have just seen this all go downhill and feel like voicing that.”

Sent on September 22nd, 2019 at 3:35:13 am: “you’re not going to explain how senketsu’s supposed oppression is on par with human racism because there’s no evidence that it’s as overwhelming except in your mind, since you’re the only person who would ever try to say what senketsu experiences is on par with what marginalized humans go through.”

Sent on September 22nd, 2019, at 3:09:13 am: “Not to be that guy, but if you see Senketsu as a child and still ship him with Ryuko we have a huge problem.”

Sent on September 22nd, 2019, at 2:55:57 am: “Wait a minute, you just said Senketsu is a ‘literal child’, but also ship Ryuko with him and think they’re canon? That’s pretty pedophilic what the fuck”

Sent on October 16th, 2019, at 7:12:02 pm: “You ever wonder why we’re here?”

#shut up goop #goop makes a (kinda) personal post #i probably shouldn't have deleted all this crap outta my inbox #'cause re-typing these messages was painful #that poor grammar and spelling on some of them.... #eesh #anyway i got the moon sickness so i don't feel so good and idk if this helped but eh #the discourse #serious talk #abuse mention #rape mention #kill la kill #venting