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#her injured sound is so weirdly characterizing too
the-deadlock-south · 2 years
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out of everyone’s injured sounds ashe’s is my favorite like god she’s so dramatic
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reitheist · 1 year
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I'm rewatching t&b 2 in dub this time and idk if it's just me but it seems... straighter than the sub? (Caution: this a big nonsensical ramble, don't take it too seriously. I just wanna rant and not edit this for typos or flow)
Like I'm at the scene where Ruby talks about her dads paying for doctors (if I'm hearing it correctly, she says otousantachi, so I don't think it's a mistranslation), but the dub changes it so she just talks abt one dad. This is the most obvious change.
In the prev episode, we saw that red haired lady talk about her love for Anna, but the dub very conspicuously uses "like." The sub uses "suki" so it's not really a mistranslation, but either way the dub makes it feel like a more ambiguous than the Netflix subs portray it. I don't really know if this one was intentional or not and it's not major, but it stood out to me anyway.
In the same episode as Ruby's dad thing, Kotetsu is repeatedly worried abt Barnaby's leg. When Barnaby strains it in the fight, he yells out in pain. Kotetsu's reaction in the dub goes: "Bunny, go! Huh?" In the sub he just says Bunny in a concerned way. In the dub Kotetsu sound less concerned and more mildly annoyed with him, at least pre-realization. Sub Kotetsu knows there's something up immediately, because the entire episode (and entire 2nd cour) has been building up his bond with Barnaby and how he worries over him. This moment in dub feels weirdly ooc. Like, the man just screamed in pain Kotetsu! Kotetsu is oblivious in a lot of respects, but has never been oblivious to Barnaby's suffering. That's the point of the episode!
Then, Dubtetsu makes a sarcastic joke (at least that's my read?) at in the next scene about it "...thanks for dropping in the end there Bunny. *chuckle* Hey what's the deal with that leg though?" (For context, he literally fell onto the criminal.) In the sub he just says "Hey Bunny, your leg..."
I guess there's something to be said that this preserves Kotetsu's joking characterization in this scene? But it comes off to me that Kotetsu in the dub isn't all that concerned because of this random quip. Kotetsu makes jokes at his own expense, sure, but I can't recall him ever really making light of Barnaby's issues, especially when he's been shown be be worrying over Barnaby's recovery the entire second half of the season. Again, weirdly ooc imo.
A little after is the bike scene, where Kotetsu confronts him about his leg injury, sub Kotetsu brings up that Barnaby seemed off that morning too. Dub Kotetsu doesn't seem to mention this at all? He just mentions how he screamed earlier. He also says, "Level with me about your leg." as he approaches instead of "Does your leg hurt?" like in the sub. A subtle change, but this just feels too casual for how Kotetsu's feeling right now. Plus it's phrased as a command instead of a question, which really doesn't convey much worry at all. Sub Kotetsu consistently centers Barnaby's experience, but Dub Kotetsu doesn't, so it sounds more like he's annoyed with him for being injured rather than concern.
The sub rounds out the conversation with Kotetsu saying "You screamed in pain, Is it so bad that-" before he's cut off by Barnaby. Again, this centers Barnaby's suffering as Kotetsu's subject of worry.
Dubtetsu says "You don't have to hide it from me, just tell me how bad it is-" in a (no offense to the VA I'm sure he's lovely and great) really wooden tone.
In general, the cadence between Barnaby and Kotetsu's interactions between sub and dub is really different. Barnaby's side of the conversation seems the same, but dub Kotetsu just seems way more sarcastic than sub. Sub Kotetsu is occasionally sarcastic and goofy a lot of the time, but he also has very serious moments. Above all, he has a heart of gold. Dub Kotetsu comes off as incredibly jaded sometimes. We saw this a couple times in the sub of season 1 as well, but never in season 2 as far as I can recall. By season 2 Kotetsu is more mature and has learned to fully put his trust in his friends, and especially in Barnaby.
Now that I'm on a tangent, there was also a couple of weird moments in the dub finale of cour 1 between Rock Cyclone(?) and Fire Sky. Specifically where they reunite in the hospital. Nathan mimics Keith's catchphrase in the sub to cheer him up and it's very sweet, but the dub they just kinda talk? It's really weird. The sub has a joke between Antonio and Ivan where Antonio is worried abt something and pulls the 'don't ask about it" thing, Ivan takes him seriously, and Antonio complains about him not asking and they laugh abt it together. In the dub instead of "don't ask about it" he says something like "I don't really know" iirc, which kinda ruins the joke, but they laugh about it anyway? It's a very weird scene to watch in dub bc it feels like a lot of non sequiturs they're saying at each other.
Also also correct me if I'm wrong about this, but the dub seemed to have changed Kotetsu's desire to "go to dinner" with Barnaby to be consistently asking to "go out for drinks," which doesn't change much in the scheme of things but also makes it seem a little less like a date, if that makes sense? I mean either activity can or can not be a date in different circumstances, that's just my take on it. Because Kotetsu goes drinking w Antonio already, 'going to dinner' feels less like a friend activity for Kotetsu than 'grabbing drinks," if that makes sense.
Then again, there was that one scene in the elevator w Subaru and Kotetsu. The dub seem to have Kotetsu imply he thinks Subaru has a crush on Thomas, but the sub doesn't really imply this, at least to that extent. So I guess the dub doesn't straightify everything?
The changes wouldn't irritate me so much if I unilaterally disliked this dub, but I really like it! It's a shame it suffers from really strange moments like these, because I really love some of the changes the dub makes to better the flow and humor of the series. I adore the voice acting on pretty much everyone, so I believe the dub's issues are a mix between inconsistent writing/interpretation/translation and the occasional weird direction choice. Anyway, those are sort of my thoughts thus far. Might make a followup once I finish off cour 2.
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e-vasong · 4 years
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Can I ask about your writing process?
Huge fan of your TUA fics here - the way you just GET the characters is incredible - its almost like reading a novel written by the actual show writers!
How do you go about your characterisation and your drafting process? Any tips on nailing the complexities of the characters (specifically five)?
Thanks!!!
:') This is literally so nice I don't know how to respond, oh my goodness. I wish I had, like, life-altering writing wisdom for you here, but I honestly feel like my entire process is kind of a mess. I'll share it with you anyways, though, just in case you can glean anything helpful from it. I’ll tuck it below a cut, but here it is (ft. some of my specific characterization notes on Five, since you asked :D).
Pre-draft: Concept stage! This can be a variety of things -- sometimes it's a specific scene. For me it's usually a challenge of some sort. I like to take things that I think are unlikely for a character (under what circumstances would [x] character ever become a bad guy? How would [x] character’s secrets get revealed if they never talk willingly about their emotions?) Then I build out from there. I outline sometimes now, but I’ve been winging all my pieces for so long that it’s pretty tough for me. 
Draft one: Throw things at the wall. If I let myself, I will spend way too long agonizing on making every word perfect on the first go around, and I’ll never write anything. So draft one has permission to be as bad as it needs to be: sentence fragments, OOC dialogue/actions, clunky word choice, the whole nine yards. The most important thing is getting the words/scenes on the page.
Draft two: What sticks? Everyone is different -- I find it easier to edit than to write in the first place. So here’s where I look over my work from draft one. Is my sentence structure variable enough? How are their voices? Their actions? Does the narration work with the POV I’m using for the scene? 
Like, okay. I’m working on chapter two of the end of the war right now. Currently, it includes this line:
“How did you even—” Five starts, then shakes himself.  Absolutely not.  He isn’t entertaining this.  “Luther.”
In retrospect, I’m not wild about it. It doesn’t sound in character to me. I’m not pulling out receipts right now or anything, but the more I think about it, the more that I feel certain that Five rarely expresses surprise unless really shocked. Part of this is likely the contrast between him in his siblings (all the stuff about the Apocalypse and time travel is familiar to him and new to them, so the show has a lot of “Five explains [x] to his siblings while they look flabbergasted by him.”)
Anyways, it doesn’t sit right. So maybe, instead:
Five frowns, taken off guard. He could ask, but--quite frankly--he’s starting to think that he doesn’t want to know. He does, however, know what this is a preface to -- Luther is going to meddle. 
“Luther,” Five says it like a warning. Luther either doesn’t hear it or doesn’t care.
Anyways, rinse and repeat step two as much as necessary, and you basically have my entire drafting process.
Characterization, though, I have a more thorough process for!
Fanon and meta is super, super helpful, but I definitely prefer to look at canon first and foremost. I find it easiest to build characterization by asking myself questions about the character! I mean, don’t get me wrong. The first step is just to...get your own read on their personality? And there’s no trick to that. Everyone comes away from watching a show/reading a book with a slightly different interpretation of a character’s personality. But when building off of that to write them, I find questions helpful. They vary from fandom to fandom, but, like, here are some of the questions I’ve asked myself while writing Five.
What motivates them? For Five, this is a super easy one. He literally says it at multiple points throughout the show. He’s motivated by his family. To the point of wanting to save the world because they’re a part of it. Five troops through injury and pain and discomfort, but one reference from Handler about a deal to save his family is enough to coerce Five into 1 - working with her when he doesn’t want to and 2 - taking a job that he doesn’t seem like he wants to take.
How far are they willing to go to get it? For Five, he’s willing to do pretty much anything.
Are there any contradictions in their characterization? This is a weirdly specific question, but! People are inherently contradictory. Sometimes in TV or movies or books, it’s just bad writing. But sometimes it’s because people are complicated. So, in TUA, Five is consistently a big-picture thinker throughout the series. He seems to view his job at the Commission with apathy because he knows that it’s part of maintaining the timeline and necessary for him to get back home and stop the Apocalypse. He plans to kill an innocent person because he believes the butterfly effect of their death could stop the end of the world. He is, in many ways, a utilitarian -- the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. The greater good sometimes requires a lesser evil. Pull the lever in the trolley problem, and kill the one to save the five. Unless that one is one of Five’s siblings. 
For instance, his dialogue with the Handler in season one seems to imply that he is willing to give up fighting the Apocalypse if and only if she can guarantee his siblings’ safety (though this admittedly turns on how honest you think he was being with her -- I think he was honest, but smart enough to know she’d never follow through, but a fair argument can be made either way.) There are a million ways to read this, and the fun of playing with characterization is that you get to experiment with them! I read it as proof that Five is so driven by his desire to save his siblings that he actually places their wellbeing above his own moral compass (whether his moral compass is right or wrong is a whole other debate.)
What are they like at their best vs. at their worst? At his best, Five is strategic, driven, independent, determined, loyal, and protective. At his worst, he’s controlling, suspicious, bloodthirsty, temperamental, and obsessive. Of course, most people don’t just switch between these two extremes, and these traits frequently coexist, interact, and manifest in milder ways.  Five being suspicious usually manifests as him being cautious until he’s confronted with a character (in season two, Lila) that strikes him the wrong way. Him being obsessive is often just a side product of the fact that he is determined, loyal, and protective.  The fact that he can be controlling is connected to how independent he can be -- the same reason that Five tries to keep Diego in the mental hospital, never tells people that he’s injured, and hides things from them is the same reason he’s so quick and effective at getting things done. This is just a handy way of compiling a flaws/virtues list, and I like to look at it in terms of the potential extremes because I think it makes it easier to see how they interact to create the middle ground where the character actually exists.
How do they talk? Arguably the most important question for actually getting their voice, and the easiest way to nail this down is to just...look at the canon dialogue. Does the character use really big words? Do they talk in long gusts or in short, clipped sentences?  Do they use contractions more or do they not shorten things? This is the hardest part of writing Five for me, because my first impulse is to make him talk like an Intellectual (tm) and Very Erudite Adult. Like, I default to that when writing him, and it’s a horrible habit (in my opinion) because...while he does speak that way sometimes (usually when explaining things to his siblings) that’s not actually how he talks most of the time.  (Like, for instance, I tend to default away from Five using contractions in my first drafts of things. He actually uses contractions a lot, and frequently shortens words--”got to” is “gotta” for Five, “because” becomes “‘cause”, etc.) 
Other examples:
Five: Billions of people are about to die tonight. You can change that.
The Handler: Tonight, tomorrow. So little difference in the scheme of things. Don't you remember the Commission's raison d'etre? What's meant to be is meant to be, or, as I like to say, que será, será.
Five: It's bullshit in any language.
I love this exchange so much :D. And it establishes some great things about the way Five talks! He doesn’t dance around the issue or debate her or try and prove her wrong. He just tells her he thinks that that opinion is dumb, obviously.  He’s blunt, straightforward, and honest. (This seems to tie into the thing I was saying about Five and contractions -- he picks the most straightforward way of saying things unless he’s giving a technical explanation.)
Five: Okay, Luther, but be careful. I mean, I've... I've lived a long life, but you're still a young man. You got your whole life ahead of you. Don't waste it.
Five talks like an old man. Not all the time (though there’s a wonderful gif set out there somewhere of Five using old timer slang -- wait, I found it here.) He doesn’t use the old-timey slang all the time -- and I personally like the idea of mixing up Five’s slang habits and including slang from all sorts of eras because he’s a time traveler whose primary source of interaction after four decades alone was other time traveling assassins. But! He also talks in a way where he shows his age. 
Regardless of where you think Five’s psychological age falls (I have my own Opinions on this), he seems to unilaterally view himself as the Big Sibling, and by a very large margin at that. That’s reflected in how he talks. Not always, since not every line of dialogue is relevant to his age. But stuff like this, or related to it, crops up a fair amount. He counsels his siblings on their problems (as when he comforted Diego post-Eudora’s death), and there are little moments like the quote above, where the point is that Five has indeed seen many more years than his siblings and has the perspective to reflect that.
Well, this is way too long now, and it’s really late where I’m at. I feel like the comprehensibility of this post has been steadily declining the whole time, but if other writers have tips that they want to add onto this, please go ahead! 
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dream-girls-evil · 4 years
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Ratched: Episode 1 Reactions
1947
So, the show is set roughly 13 years before Cuckoo’s Nest (written in 1959, published in 1962)
Oh look, a church. Nothing good ever happens in a church. Not on Murphy’s shows, at least. One of these priests is for sure gonna die.
Oh yep, Finn watching from the shadows. Hi Finn! I don’t know your character’s name.
Oh, of course, all of them are gonna leave and this one guy will be left alone, easy target.
“I don’t want to bother you, but I’m hurt and needing some help” --wait, wrong show. #murderhouse
Finn looks so weirdly normal here compared to Freakshow lol
Aaand the rest of the priests are back. Whatever will they find.
Oh no, mysterious dripping from the shower is always a body.
Yep, a body.
Ooh that was a lot of force.
Finn is very stab-happy.
Ohhhh fuck, Finn has an agenda! Good old Murphy and his weird “conception doomed me” trope.
SIX MONTHS LATER
Mildred!!! Oh no her voice is gonna kill me
*newspaper with an article on Finn’s killings* “Hey that’s where you’re headed! You’re not some kinda journalist, are you?” OH THE ASYLUM PARALLELS!!! And the brooch with her initial is just the cherry on top
This scenery is gorgeous. So bright and vivid.
Ah, the “Clergy Killer” is what they’re calling him. Also I guess his name is Edmund.
Omg she stole her yellow suit!!! Oh no, she’s so cute trying to copy the magazine and pin her hat just right.
Okay half of this show is just going to be me gushing about 40s fashion. Bring back hats and fitted blazers and flowy skirts!!!
Enter: Nurse Bucket. Oh, she’s definitely going to be a problem.
So no one sent Mildred this letter. I had kinda guessed already, but that means she’s here because she needs to get a job here, and it probably has something to do with Edmund. Not @ Lana Winters talking her way into Briarcliff to get an interview with Bloodyface.
Legit can’t decide if Dr. Hanover just happened to go to the same bar as the governor or if it was planned, but yay here’s Gwendolyn! Looks like she’s the governor’s PR person kinda?
Mildred checking out the nurse trainee lol
LOOKING GOOD TODAY, MILDRED
Who’s in the Vine Room--oh yikes, lol
Suddenly, green mood lighting?? Weird.
Ope Dr. Hanover got some anger issues, and is probably alcoholic
Okay, I love her. She clearly forged the interview letter but she just plowed ahead with confidence and made him feel like a fool for “forgetting” it. 10/10 grifting skills.
All she wants is to see the human mind cured, huh? I still think this is gonna turn into a repressed lesbian thing and hope I’m wrong.
Was she about to kiss the babydoll on the forehead? :(
Oh NO this nightgown she’s so pretty
I can’t quite figure out her game here...Does she even actually want to sleep with this guy? Is this some weird foreplay fantasy or reenacting a trauma? I’m thinking trauma. Yeah, that sounded like a personal story. And with the babydoll...did she have a husband and kid at one point? Or was she the baby left on the doorstep?
Yay blackmail :D and yeah she just like, has this babydoll
The green lighting is a metaphor for the unattainable American Dream
Mmm day one and she’s messing with meds? Sketchy, Mildred.
Ah, I get it, making herself a savior.
Ope. Gwen is interested. That look she gave Mildred when she told the governor not to put his hand on her like that. She knows.
Oh no, she’s crying. Her family never came for her. The brother thing is interesting, though. I almost want to say it’s Edmund.
Aaand here we go: her idea of mercy is taking away this dude’s hope. Which like...I get it, but with the talk of freeing him from pain, I can see where this is gonna go. And yeah, there it is, she’s gonna let him kill himself. She’s an angel of mercy.
Ooh Hanover’s on to her, but she’s smart enough she’s gonna throw him off. Now he’s panicking and she’s calm--she’s just made herself indispensable.
Body in the laundry bin. Classic.
Aaand Edmund arrives at Lucia Hospital! That’s a damn fancy wine cellar/solitary confinement cell!
Definitely her brother.
Thoughts and Theories
Oh this post is getting so long, sorry XD
So, Mildred is possibly an Angel of Death/Angel of Mercy: a serial killer who often works in the medical field and kills or injures the people under their care. She actually exhibits signs of two of the subtypes: 1) the mercy killer who believes their victims are suffering or beyond help and wants to free them, and 2) the malignant hero who intentionally endangers the victim’s life in order to save them. In this case, the latter seems just for necessity, so I’d characterize her as a mercy killer. The third subtype is the sadistic killer who enjoys using their position to exert power and control over victims, which...could definitely characterize the Nurse Ratched from Cuckoo’s Nest.
There are some interesting backstories developing regarding Edmund and Mildred’s families! I think Edmund is the brother Mildred talked about. It would explain her reason for following him to Lucia Hospital. I don’t think they’re blood relatives, though. They both talk about being separated from their parents, and Mildred says that she remembers her brother but not her parents, implying that she was with her brother longer or later in life. She was also taken away from him, too, which would make sense if they were in an orphanage together and then MIldred was adopted, leaving Edmund there without protection. This also means that Mildred’s fantasy about the fighting couple would be about her own relationship, not her parents’, so if it’s true, then she was married once and even has a daughter out there somewhere, which fits with the babydolls that keep popping up around her.
The green light also definitely has major significance, and I’ve heard there are other fun light flashes in the next few episodes, but I’m still thinking on what they all mean.
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