#ganeshkfp

[hurremshiv]

Hürrem and Sümbül as requested by @ganeshkfp

#sorry this took so long but here it is #i love their friendship #hürrem sultan #sümbül ağa #magnificent century #el sultán #muhteşem yüzyıl #teamhürrem #my edits

[mc-critical]

It's like I have been spamming your page with asks so much lately, sorry 😁 My ask to you is about Hatice and her niece and nephews. Do you think she would be really satisfied with the idea of their death, If Mustafa comes to throne? In episode 92, when she was talking to Şah, she was stating if something happens to Suleiman, both Hurrem and her kids would have to die. And her expressions seems, very satisfied since her willing attempts to revenge both Suleiman and Hurrem. It made me sad to hear her say that, since we always saw her really love them, especially Mihrimah. And in episode 101, she was rolling her eyes with annoyance after Mehmet came to her palace to visit Mustafa. So in general, with the hatred of Suleiman and Hurrem, would she be really that satisfied and happy to their end?

Oh, don't worry about it! :)

Even though Hatice truly had a very intense hatred for Hürrem at this point, I don't think she'll be satisfied with the deaths of her children.

Hatice's changing perspective on Hürrem and Süleiman is showed in a very slow and datailed way, to the point of going to justified extremes with her fragile state of mind. I would see why one would think a part from Hatice's hatred for Hürrem has gone to the newfews in a moment in theory, knowing how Hatice's later opinion on Süleiman stems from how he changed also thanks to Hürrem, as she hinted at in their last confrontation.

But once again, this is all the pay-off to a build-up and we were witnesses of these changing perspectives and the way they changed Hatice as a person, too. Aside from the two scenes you mentioned, we don't really have that with the nephews. Hatice's perspective of them doesn't seem to have openly changed. She still loved them, she went to Mehmet's oath ceremony in E69, she adviced Firuze to win Mihrimah over, and even later, in S03B, she told Mihrimah in E87 that she loved her a lot, in spite of her strained relationship with her mother. She and Mihrimah have had conflicts, sure, but going as far as to want the death of one another?

Now, given that her strained relationship with Hürrem was getting stronger and stronger, she may have still gotten a little different view on the nephews, since these expressions in the scenes you mentioned weren't all that meaningless. I did talk about how Hatice's means of getting rid of Hürrem changed throughout these few moments of S02 and the whole of S03, and the scene in E92 could be a part of that. Mustafa getting on the throne would mean Hürrem's end and that's what Hatice wanted most of all then. And Mustafa being on the throne would normally call for the Fatih law and she probably said this part out of ignorance, as a known fact, not out of malice for the newfews. This hint of satisfaction could be solely because she would finally avenge Ibrahim and the dynasty and the family would have piece again, not because the nephews would be killed. Hatice opted for personal revenge, not for some massive bloodshed and when the time for action came, I doubt she would ever allow for the children to be killed. She would bring them into another castle, at the very least.

The context of these two scenes also reveal another important aspect of Hatice's characterization: both of these scenes are reactive, a response to the action of someone else. In E92, Hatice knew that Rüstem was with Mustafa when he was sent to execute the man that seemingly disobeyed SS's orders. Both Şah and her believed they put a trap on Mustafa early on and even though he came to the capital with proof that he made the right decision, Hatice still counted it as a scheming attempt. Hatice doesn't want her loved ones to be threatened like that and such an attempt would make her embittered towards those behind it all the more, hence this proclaiming of Hürrem's fate and that of her children. Besides, she was putting Hürrem's actions into context, because she knew that Mustafa got away from trouble this time, but Hürrem would try again. In the scene in E101, I always saw her rolling her eyes during Mehmet's arrival as a "really??! what is he doing here?" look. Before he arrived, Hatice was going through yet another breaking point: she took Mehmet going to Manisa decision as a wrong one that would cause only misery and despair to both Mustafa and the family (and we see it hurt Mehmet, too, because he didn't want to go to his brother's sanjack): to her, all hope was being lost and catastrophe would follow. (also a build-up to Hürrem's abduction, Hatice would finally act with nobody no longer holding her back.) And then, all of the sudden, Mehmet, a part of what is currently happening, appears on the horizon. She maybe thought of this as a bad time. Besides, when Mehmet told them he wanted to see Mustafa, all of them stood silent. Perhaps Hatice also didn't want for Mehmet to go console him now, because of his indirect part in Mustafa's despair and she doesn't want her loved ones to be hurt and she usually does object at least through an expression when that is about to happen. That's something that has stayed in her character, even (and especially) here. Maybe she didn't want to see him right now, maybe she was resenting him a bit in that moment, but I don't think she would ever be happy with his death or any of the nephews' deaths.

#magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #muhtesem yuzyil #hatice sultan #ask #ganeshkfp

[mc-critical]

This ask got me thinking after one of your latest asks about Hurrem's suicide attempt. Do you think Hurrem's enemies( such as Mahidevran, Hatice, Ibrahim, Gulfem...) would start to be a little bit more sympatic towards to Hurrem if they learn her suicide attemps for Suleiman?(Like when Afife saved her in ep 72) I mean, Valide started to respect and understand her after she saw how much she really loved Suleiman and was willing to give her life for him. Also Afife started to understand her after saving her life. What do you think about the other enemies ? :)

It highly depends on the dynamic each one has with Hürrem individually, their own reasons for putting their foot down on her or being enemies with her, how much can that "new knowledge" move past these reasons and everyone's own individual view on Süleiman.

I feel the one who would sympathize with Hürrem the most in such circumstance would be Gülfem. She has experienced a level of loss and knows what it means to feel that life isn't worth living after that loss. If she learns, she would surely understand and perhaps say that, despite of everything, Hürrem is attached very strongly to Süleiman and has immense loyalty for him. She wouldn't condone Hürrem's other actions that don't sit well with her (like bringing Nigar in the harem only to spite Hatice, reminding her of the infidelity at every turn and even using Gülfem herself to frame Mahidevran for an assault in order to become the ruler of the harem since that was relatively soon), but would put the action into context in front of everyone.

This reaction would be helped by the fact that Gülfem isn't exactly her enemy per say, is very forgiving and patient, isn't used to holding grudges, and is only ever against Hürrem when she does something against her loved ones or she crosses some kind of a line by petty insults or comebacks. Besides, Gülfem still strives to see the good in Süleiman by this point of the show, being his emotional support and conscience even before S04 and becomes worried about what would happen to everyone every time he's ill, so such action of Hürrem's would be pretty explainable for her, even though she could certainly think that Firuze is something she had coming for her, and if they get a chance to talk about it in the depths of my headcanon, they would be the most possible "duo" to have a heart to heart.

Both Ibrahim and Mahidevran's perspectives have pretty much in many ways been shown by episode 55 where Hürrem prepares to do something pretty similar to her suicide attempt in episode 72, just with even more massive stakes.

A major part of the conflict between Hürrem and Ibrahim is rooted on Süleiman: his attention on both of them and the amount of influence Hürrem wants to exercise over him. However, the loyalties they have towards Süleiman is where they have managed to find common ground. Ibrahim is fully aware that Hürrem would never directly act against him. Him learning about a suicide attempt of Hürrem's due to the prospect of losing Süleiman would be nothing new to him, since, as highlighted by their confrontation in E55, he was aware that she was in such a state where she was willing to 'do the impossible'. They were both devastated by the ongoing events and they could come to a mutual understanding. It's possible for him to at least try to understand what she's going through there. But that would only last for so long, for the moment he learns about it. He would widen and maybe think, but... that would be about it. Because if Mahidevran directly acted before Valide hid the children and with SS's fate still being uncertain in E55, Hü and Ibro would have teamed up to stop this mess, but not here.

I once again come back to the comparatively more personal stakes of Hürrem's suicide in E72: this attempt wouldn't be enough to put everything between them behind, for Ibrahim to have such a strong amount of sympathy, none of this can be forgotten by a single suicide attempt. Their history is much longer than that. I would say that he would indeed think about the fact that Firuze is bothering Hürrem so much, wonder for a few seconds, how did it come to this, tell Matrakci about it and tell him that Hürrem must be very threatened to go for this, maybe with a hint of understanding... but that would be about it. It would be a temporary reaction, nothing between them or their dynamic would change in a significant way, he wouldn't get more sympathetic with Hürrem. Because that is a side of her Ibrahim has seen, on the possibility of another, scarier, more dangerous future for them both.

Mahidevran is the person who, is not only the least likely to, but surely, by one hundred percent, wouldn't sympathize with Hürrem over her suicide attempt at. all. Her hatred for Hürrem is seriously big and the points where they both could ever come to an understanding are rare. Some suicide attempt would seem something incredibly trivial and far too small to turn the tables. That is empowered even further by Mahidevran's own ongoing character arc that relates to Süleiman and the way her inner strength evolves by her letting go of him. At this point of the show, Mahidevran wouldn't even be able to relate to what Hürrem has done on a personal level, since Süleiman is nothing but memories to her already. It's not an experience she could connect herself with because of this exact shifting of priorities. What she wants even more at this point is Hürrem's end and she would be fine with however would it happen. {We could say she would generally prefer suffering for her (as she said in E55, but it's a belief confirmed again in E79, saying that death would only be a salvation for her spy; and then advanced even further in S04.), but is on board with killing her as well. (see her sending Diana to kill her)} I even imagine her to still widen at the news, but to wonder why did Afife even save her. (if they learn about that, too)

Despite of this, I feel there're a few angles of how precisely Mahidevran would view this suicide: the confrontation between Hürrem and her in front of SS's bed in E55 is key in her witnessing her say that it's namely dying with Süleiman that she would do if SS died anyway. And there we have Mahidevran claim that Hürrem doesn't do it out of love, but out of fear for her life. She could view Hürrem's suicide in E72 like this, too, and this way she would not only not sympathize with her for it, but also condemn her for doing it in some way. She may not read these intentions as genuine, she may even see it all as a plan of Hürrem's to win Afife over? There wasn't an indication that Mahidevran's view of these stunts of hers changed by that point, even though Mahidevran realized that her E55 actions were a mistake. The second angle of this could be the direct demonstration of her belief of the endless cycle of the harem that would never change. Yes, in E64 Mahidevran had stopped believing that another woman could defeat Hürrem (seen by her expression when Hatice told everyone that this is the only thing that would beat Hürrem), but seeing Firuze brought something else to the table. Then Mahidevran begins once again saying that Hü would burn in the same fire she did, calling back to her words in E61 that one woman would come and destroy this indestructible love. Seeing this realized with Firuze, seeing Hürrem struggle against her that much to the point of giving up, albeit in the opposite way Mahidevran did from SS... it would just show that Hürrem indeed isn't irreplaceable, that every good thing comes to an end, that Hürrem's victories wouldn't be endless and that she would doom herself one day. This could be a part of what Mahidevran wanted, confirming her beliefs of then, yet weakening her rival by a severe amount. Firuze having such an affect on Hürrem would by no means be approached sympathetically by Mahidevran, even if it hypothetically happened in the moment where it could (by that I mean early S01, in E10, when SS was rumored to be dead and if Hü tried such a thing then. And if, say, Firuze existed instead of Sadıka, ofc.), because even then Mahidevran's priorities would be immediately switched to the baggage little Mustafa had to deal with. Hürrem and Mahidevran had their few and far between moments of understanding, but that understanding was connected to their children and their motherly instincts. Only then would they be close to put their differences behind. Not here.

I find Hatice's possible reaction to be kind of a mix between what virtues she has seen in Hürrem before and their relationship in S03A's present. We know that Hatice completely stood against Hürrem because of her simultaniously threatening dynasty and family and what they stood for in Hatice's eyes. However, there have been two exceptions throughout S03A where Hatice actually sided with Hürrem or was shown to be empathetic to her. One of the exceptions was Süleiman falling ill once again in E78 where she was standing next to Hürrem and sharing her desire to see SS recover. That circumstance is similar to what E55 offered, because Hatice saw Hürrem in a better light, albeit for a moment in this case, while showing a loyalty to both the dynasty and the family that is Süleiman. That's where they're able to set their differences even in times where they are full on enemies. It is possible that Hatice may show a hint of understanding for Hürrem's suicide, because she is showing some kind of loyalty to Süleiman and after all, Hatice did once truly admire their love and even understood Hürrem's urge to send the Russian concubines off back in S01. She could understand why Hürrem did it and even empathize with it in part. It wouldn't be completely impossible, since she also has an idea of what it is like. But on the other hand, things have changed since S01: Firuze is the person Hatice counted on to take the win out of Hürrem's hands and Hatice was in such a state that she wanted Firuze to completely take over, which would make us think.

Nonetheless, learning of Hürrem's suicide attempt would definetly surprise Hatice, because even though she wanted for Firuze to take away Hürrem's Thursdays, such a reaction from Hürrem wouldn't be that expected and she would possibly view it as extreme even, since as I have said, Hatice didn't want to kill her in S03A. To knock her down a peg, to put her in her place, yes, but to want or expect such an ending for her, with her doing it herself.. I don't think so. She could even ask her is she okay and even thank Afife for saving her. Again, I don't think it would change their dynamic all that much, probably would keep a bigger eye on Firuze's moves?, but it would be a little moment of piece between them and Hatice could really sympathize. Because Hatice is still very human at her core.

[Side note: Ayşe Hafsa's dynamic with Hürrem changed so much after she saw Hürrem in E55, namely because she saw another side of Hürrem, virtues she didn't think she had and for the defense of which she stood up against Hürrem - again, the loyalty to dynasty and family. In E38, when she overheard her, she saw Hürrem marching against all of them by saying she would get rid of basically everyone and then her seemigly using SS's trust and love for her in cold calculation. In E55, she saw her love for SS in a different better light, a loyalty so strong and contrasting it negated every doubt Valide had against her and made her fully support her as a result. To be fair, the contrast with Mahidevran also helped, since Valide was conversely disappointed by a person she had an almost familial bond with and it's just that the occurrences in the whole episode were just so massive they made her switch from one side to another. Her son's future was put in question as much as her own.

Afife wasn't really an enemy of Hürrem's. She was more of a "lawful neutral" type of character: she helped with the Firuze case only because she was led to believe that Hürrem disrupted the balance in the harem and this balance could be fixed only through another woman. She told Hürrem off that one time, because Afife was so loyal to the laws she found herself to act by them and them alone, thus claiming that Hürrem isn't a Valide Sultan and Afife could arrange the entertainment regardless. (and also because the plot demanded it.) There wasn't any personal ire there. But Hürrem's suicide is something that touched her on a personal level, for she loves SS as her own son. That's once again, something she has never had the chance to see in her life, something new that moved her and made her more supportive of Hürrem and view Firuze in another way. Because after such event she couldn't help, but think: "Could Firuze do the bold thing the legal wife and the mother of his majesty's five kids just did?".]

#magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #muhtesem yuzyil #hurrem sultan #mahidevran sultan #ibrahim pasha #hatice sultan #gulfem hatun #ayse hafsa sultan #afife hatun #ask #ganeshkfp #i may have gotten carried away 😅 #but this was so interesting to think about!

[mc-critical]

This would be a little complex sorry :) but what do you think the scenario would be like if Meryem did not leave the show before S3 finished? For example how would Sah sultan leave, will Hurrem finish her off instead of Mihrimah? Because it was obvious that she would be absent in S4 since Fatma was coming as the new sister. Also how would they make Hatice kill herself? I mean in my opinion they would still make her kill herself. But how do you think her final moments/scenes with Sah, Suleiman, Gülfem, Hurrem, Mihrimah... would be like? And about Mehmet, they would probably give him more screentime and to his death as well. I can't even imagine Hurrem's reaction and what would be like if she meets Mahi in his funeral. Well...what do you think? :)

When I was thinking this through, I realized that... I don't see so much changing in the script as I anticipated.

I'm not sure about Şah Sultan, tbh. I think she would still leave in S03 (even though I speculated what are her odds against Hürrem and what would happen if she stayed in S04 here.) and it would be probably Hürrem that would finish her off, but I'm not sure how would it happen. She doesn't have much in the way of a fatal flaw which would doom her when it comes to Hürrem and the one "flaw" or "scruple" she had was more connected to Mihrimah. So they would either contrive some kind of a fatal flaw that would let Hürrem beat her or make her love and respect for the dynasty the fatal flaw that would cause her to slowly begin underestimating Hürrem too much, because of her wins against her, but that would be far too much of a flanderization for Şah. Maybe they also could still leave her to Mihrimah the way they did, but Mihrimah to decide to act because of what she sees as disrespect to Hürrem, along with her growing confidence of her own power, not because of the abduction situation.

I agree that Hatice would still end her arc in suicide. If the abduction isn't a factor, maybe she may try doing that, but not succeed? Hatice may go in such a state where it's really "all or nothing" and no one could stop her and she may repeatedly, frequently, one episode after another try to end Hürrem and it would lead to the same confrontation, with SS wondering why she would do this, why didn't she get over Ibrahim. Or maybe, Hatice would simply give up from it all by ruminating alone in her chambers on the recent situations, to have a longer farewell with Şah and Gülfem and want to be with Ibrahim so much, to have a suicide attempt a parallel with E83, but this time, with no one succeeding to save her or fill her with promises.

I'm with the fandom in that we could've seen more of Mehmet. Certainly his funeral and that scene would be very impactful. I doubt Mahidevran would appear in his funeral, because of the massive regret that overtook her and both her mind and conscience perhaps speaking against that, but I wouldn't sign off them adding a scene like that for dramatic effect. And it would be very impactful for both characters, too. There certainly would be a scene with Mustafa, since he would (and was confirmed to in the show itself) be in his funeral ceremony. Maybe Mustafa would say he massively regretted that loss and he suffers as much as she does and Hürrem would take a deep breath before she spoke, probably accept his words, but also say, in parallel to E75, that he should pray nobody around him is behind this. Maybr then a plot-line of Musti suspecting his mother would be possible. Though I think the funeral would be mostly SS and Hürrem grieving for their favourite son and preferred candidate for the throne, since they have lost a part of them for the first time. It would be a powerful showcase of their state of vulnerability and maybe a more visible transition point where they truly begin to act as partners and stand together in every situation.

Mehmet himself would definetly have tiny bit more scenes with Hürrem, because she would at least be there to congratulate him for going to Amasya and tell him to be careful. They may have a conversation about why is he going to the sanjack of his brother and there could be a bit of conflict between them in that regard.

I don't think Mehmet's death would change so much. The episode itself was a A Day/Death in the Limelight episode for Mehmet, the reason for Mahidevran acting against him would remain intact (Mustafa going to Amasya), the trajectory of her conflict in E101 would also remain intact, so she could still set the Illyas scheme in motion and Mehmet would still trust him blindly, because of his relative lack of experience. What may change, however, is the opposition Mahidevran would have here - the scene with Mahidevran confronting Hürrem for Amasya in E101 would most likely be a scene between both of them and Hürrem might suspect that Mahidevran is up to something. Hürrem would try monitoring things in Manisa and might even begin to see through Illyas's facade, but the outcome would still be the same in the end. Maybe Hürrem would try her best protecting Mehmet, but it would end in vain, it could end with Mehmet doubting her opinion on Illyas only for the inevitable to happen... It would amplify even further the tragedy of this death and Hürrem would be more involved in acting against it/trying to prevent it.

With that said, that's where perhaps the biggest change in the script is gonna lie - S04 Hürrem's motivation. An important part of S04 Hürrem's motivation was not only that Mehmet was killed and by Mahidevran, no less, but that she wasn't there in that death, she wasn't there to stop it, that she didn't even get to look at him for what was probably the last time. With Meryem not leaving and Hürrem being more involved in his sanjack plot, this would be gone. There would be no abduction, there would be no shortage of what they could show, they would amplify the drama even more. Mehmet's death would be even more of a motivation now than it was when coupled with what Hürrem went through during the abduction. And by extension, it would mean that Mahidevran won not when Hürrem wouldn't be there to stop her, but by her efforts to prevent all this failing altogether. That would fuel Hürrem to get rid of her enemies, especially Mustafa even more, but at the same time, I doubt it would change her S04 actions. I don't think S04 itself would change so much, either, (aside from Mehmet getting more mentions and callbacks, because the last three S03 episodes would be densely packed with him, not just his last episode and Hü's visit to Mehmet's mosque, was it? in E119 where Afife died would give some place for Mehmet himself, too, before the attack with stones from the organization defending Musti happened), because this development of Hürrem's character and her relationships would be inevitable. I see even her death episode with little to no changes, because no, Hü didn't have flashbacks not because they had some issue with Meryem or something (if that was the case, why did we have the first ever Hü and SS scene in E01 as a flashback in E139?), but because in MC, she was the epitome of the total adaption in the harem. Her not recalling her past is perfectly fitting. Though that's not to say I don't see more flashbacks of her love with SS in previous episodes to happen, since they know that will bring even more impact. I don't think her final moments with the characters would change so much, as well, especially when it comes to Mahidevran and Gülfem, but maybe we can have a bit of a change with SS. Maybe both will recite their poems in her last scene, who knows? And maybe if not the death episode itself, her burial scene would be probably filled with flashbacks of Hü and SS, I can almost imagine her next to SS's bed in E55 showing on the screen when they bury her and SS's poetry plays in the background.

#magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #muhtesem yuzyil #ask #ganeshkfp #one thing I would love is Mehmet marrying Esmahan #but nope that would have to happen before Meryem leaving #and we would have to rewrite Esmahan entirely #smh

[mc-critical]

Hello again! :) Do you think if Suleiman still let Firuze stay in his harem instead of banishing her, by still believing her through a spell(?) Would others still support Firuze against Hurrem(or like would they believe Firuze too?) or starting to feel very suspicous of Firuze since she persuaded Suleiman even though he knows she is a spy. Like do you think Ibrahim would try to open Suleiman's eyes or Hatice or Gulfem would try to persuade him to let Firuze go? :)

It's likely for them to believe Firuze's story to an extent. As we saw in E76, they still didn't learn the whole truth about her and Ibrahim's initial investigation confirmed what she said to the sultan. However, if SS decides not to punish her, the matter won't be left alone and further, more detailed investigation might help learn more about Firuze's true intentions. Then some kind of an action would be in order, since no one would be okay with a spy who could endanger the empire itself - personal gain and grudges notwithstanding.

Even if Firuze being a spy sent by Tahmasp remains the only thing they know, I doubt Hatice would keep supporting Firuze against Hürrem. Her biggest priority at the moment is the dynasty and happiness of the people she loves and she would naturally stand against whoever gets in the way of that, whether she supported them before or not. Hence she could also empathize with those that want the same as her in particular situations- i.e. Hatice comforting Hürrem that everything will be fine once SS was sick in E78. It's not only that she, like Hafsa, offers and values familial, moral and emotional support in these cases - Hatice is more than willing to leave any sort of resentment behind if she sees someone who she resented before to view the peace and welfare of the dynasty as most important. And she actually does exactly that with the Firuze case in the show itself, too - a while after she found out everything, she told straight in her face that Hürrem was right about her and that she "infiltrated them (all) like a snake". Hatice reacted the same way Valide did with Mahidevran in E55 - the shock and massive disappointment of what someone she trusted has done, seemigly giving up on them from that point on. Her reaction would simply be an extension to that if SS doesn't do anything. While Hatice definitely wouldn't do a prominent switching of gears like Valide did, or even opt for some lasting alliance with Hürrem against Firuze, she wouldn't at all be against doing something to stop her and even helping a bit with that, either. Because she already threatens the dynasty, she's more than the concubine to win SS over, she's no longer the "traditional" way to knock Hürrem down a peg, while SS is okay with this. So she should be stopped. And even if Hatice somehow gets conflicted over this, Gülfem is there to remind her of the dangers of letting Firuze alone completely. Maybe she won't do something that direct against her, except a talk or two with SS, confrontations with Firuze or finding someone to keep an eye on Firuze, since she can leave the bigger actions to Ibrahim, but she won't sit by passively. She won't act against Hürrem until this is over. After that the "status-quo" in their dynamic may still return anyway, especially if Ibrahim dies in this timeline, as well.

Gülfem would probably talk to SS by both her own intent and Hatice's request. Also she would, again, totally comfort Hürrem in this situation, because she knows what happens won't end well like this and that SS is only being deceived by Firuze.

I see Ibrahim going with it both ways. He would still let Hürrem to be weakened in some way through Firuze, but would absolutely set out to find everything about her and expose her. For Ibrahim SS's wellbeing and feelings are more important than his feud with Hürrem, as seen with him bringing her back from exile in E15, which I doubt he would do if he didn't see SS was hurting so much without her. The Firuze matter is interesting in that from something Ibrahim was very barely involved with, it would turn into him getting more active in it only when it was known she's a spy and investigation was demanded. And if the dangerous spy that became a state matter still wrapped SS in her finger despite of any and all attempts to snap SS out of it that would perhaps be unsuccessful, he would have to work alone, behind nearly everyone's back to figure everything about her out and make sure his sources are as reliable as they can be. Ibrahim is a direct, yet secretive person and I see him being both very direct and very secretive when it comes to Hürrem. I feel he would make it clear to her that he's working on something regarding Firuze, but that work would be more "behind the scenes", not him, say, stopping Firuze from going to SS's chambers (if he hasn't learned about her plan to poison him yet, ofc, if he does, then he would make sure the poison won't reach SS's chambers and would convince Sümbül to stop her from entering.), so Hürrem wouldn't see Ibrahim's efforts until he's fully done and announces the results with evidence in front of SS and Firuze gets her respective punishment. He would want to get results as fast as he can and scold those who help him in the investigation for not acting faster, because SS's life is at stake, but he would still be willing to wait for the right time to show his findings until they're confirmed certain. Ibrahim would perhaps want to deal with Firuze personally and may want for Hürrem not to interfere in this until the whole truth is found (though he knows well he can't stop her). He wouldn't express full support of her that openly and wouldn't ally with her (at least not the whole way, an alliance similar to E73 may be more possible), either, but he would prioritize getting rid of Firuze at the moment and would freely admit that Hürrem wants the same as him, they have the same goal this time around, similarly to, once again, E55.

#magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #muhtesem yuzyil #ibrahim pasha #hatice sultan #gulfem hatun #firuze hatun #hurrem sultan #ask #ganeshkfp

[mc-critical]

I don't know what you think of Huricihan's and Bayezid's love arc. But what do you think would happen if Ibrahim and Hatice were still alive and witnessed everything? I mean their daughter is having a relationship with Hurrem's son 😄 How would they react if they found out they had a secret marriage and her betrayal to Mustafa?

[I think Huricihan and Bayezid's love arc had potential, but it turned out... fine. Just fine and nothing more. It was a serviceable plot device in all fronts, but didn't do much for Huricihan herself - it threw away her setup completely and her love for Bayezid was all she had going for her at a point. Her betrayal of Mustafa could've been a nice direction for her to go in: it could make for a great internal conflict between her growing affection for Bayezid and standing up for what Ibrahim and Hatice believed, ending with Huricihan eventually finding the "balance" between both sides of hers, thus having more nuanced dynamics with everyone involved... but it was anything but and we. were. robbed.]

First off, Huricihan falling in love with Bayezid would be even more possible, because of her still living parents. Her resentment and drive in S04 simply wouldn't be around and she would be more open to "the other side", no matter what she's told. This seeming despise of Süleiman and Hürrem won't be there anymore and I even see her having a soft spot for Mihrimah, especially with Hatice's further encouragement.

If Hatice and Ibrahim witnessed all that happened around Huricihan, they would both be surprised by her falling in love with Bayezid and not really - Hatice especially would understand a situation where love overtakes everything, despite of every boundary, and while Ibrahim would probably object more and try to snap Huricihan out of it, he would be definitely on board that it can't really be stopped afterwards. Still, they would advice her to be careful and not get carried away with irrational, unplanned actions too much and when Huricihan tends to do such actions anyway, they would scold her for it.

I'm confident that Hatice and Ibrahim will make use of the relationship between Bayezid and Huricihan. I'm not sure how much would they like for Bayezid to be involved with something against Hürrem or whether Bayezid would ever get involved in it, regardless of his love for Huri, but their relationship would give Ibrahim and Hatice an opportunity to learn about what's going on around Hürrem, so they can act, and may tell Huricihan to convince him to share stuff with her. (or maybe Huricihan could do it herself and Hatice and Ibrahim would congratulate her for it. Or Bayezid would simply share with her without any extra efforts on anyone else's part, who knows?) Hatice and Ibrahim would tell Huricihan to help Bayezid be kept on Mustafa's side even more, but then a conflict between them could potentially show up, because Huricihan comes to shift her priorities completely eventually. Maybe they could make Huricihan herself ally with Mustafa, as well? However, this won't turn out all that great.

I think Ibrahim may have a chance of preventing Huricihan's betrayal if he gets suspicious of Bayezid's Lala. He would certainly find a way to watch over stuff in the sanjacks of the other princes in order to protect Mustafa in some way and if he realizes what's to come, he would interfere in advance. I see him himself striving to keep Mustafa and Mihrünnisa's marriage a secret, even if they somehow did it without him knowing or didn't succeed to stop it. (Mahidevran could convince him of the advantages of it like Mihrünnisa did with her?) It is also likely for the marriage not to happen at all due to Ibrahim acting on time then and there, but Nisa is a different case than Helena and Mustafa has already given up following his head instead of his heart, as he said.

If the marriage slips out and Hatice and Ibrahim learn of Huricihan's betrayal, I cannot imagine their reactions, honestly. They would be shocked, disappointed, angry that Huricihan dared endanger Mustafa like this. They would probably say they didn't expect she would go this far. Hatice would surely speak to her about the future of the dynasty and how she endangered it. Ibrahim would call her out on both acting behind their backs and putting her head in stuff like this. They would probably be mad at her for a while, but they would forgive her eventually, because they love her. Huricihan herself seems to love and want to live up to her parents a lot, so she would try to make them loosen up on her.

Hatice and Ibrahim would support the secret marriage for the benefits of an "alliance" between Bayezid and Huricihan, but wouldn't support the risk that comes with it, because there's every chance for it to be leaked and revealed by say, Nurbanu and Selim. (which does end up happening through Nurbanu after all!)  So they would advice her to thread carefully and not do the same mistake she did with Mustafa again. With the Mustafa-Mihrünnisa marriage reveal and Huricihan's own secret marriage, Hatice and Ibrahim would get even more involved in the whole ordeal.

Now that I think about it, however.. if Hatice and Ibrahim are still around in S04 - Osman would be a part of the plot, wouldn't he? I don't see much material with him, except his relationship with the other princes and his support of Huricihan (also I bet a random love story would be there somewhere, because the show loves love stories!), but he can have soft moments with Ibrahim and Hatice, since he would be the first living son of Hatice's and Ibrahim may fill the missing hole in his heart after Esmanur's demise with him and Huricihan. Hatice and Ibrahim would find a way to involve Osman somehow to protect Huri from making the wrong decision again, but how much would he want or succeed would depend on his dynamics with the others: and with him, the possibilities are pretty much endless in that regard.

Hatice's relationship with Huricihan would take a turning point if Ibrahim dies (a little) before Mustafa in this timeline, too. It would be then the will for revenge of both of them appears and they would motivate each other to go through it and get the justice they deserve. They both would be each other's only solace and Hatice would demand for them to act together against Hürrem in all instances and not hold back.

#magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #muhtesem yuzyil #huricihan sultan #hatice sultan #ibrahim pasha #sehzade osman from MC #ask #ganeshkfp #that granted the main S04 events are still canon or changed only a little of course #otherwise there are so many possibilities! #Huricihan had SO much they could work with even without Ibro and Hati ahhhhh

[mc-critical]

In earlier episodes, when Mahi stole Hurrem's ring for the first time, I remember that Ibrahim told the Valide about it and then they returned the ring. Mahi was pregrant with her second child, then she lost her baby after those events. After reading some YT comments I rewatched the scenes again because many people say that It was Valide who made Mahi lose the baby with the drink she offered in her room as a punishment after she learned she was the one who stole the ring. I mean I couldn't believe that after reading because Valide really wanted a child from Mahi, she was really happy after learning her pregnancy. But then it made me suspicious... Valide's facial expressions, zooming to the drink... I mean, could that be really possible?

I think the "Mahidevran losing her baby in episode 3 from Valide" debacle is a theory at best and a plot hole at worst. I covered why I think it totally isn't the case in my eyes here. (OP was actually talking about Farya's miscarriage, not Mahidevran's, but oh well. 😅)

In retrospect, when I revisited the aforementioned scene in the linked post from the beginning of S02, I saw that Valide's expression wasn't exactly blank after Mahidevran mentioned her miscarrying because of stress, I was wrong there. But still, I saw Valide as being sorry for her, not, say, feeling some kind of guilt for being a reason for the miscarriage in the far past or something like that. This whole thing was left so ambiguous, more ambiguous than the usual ambiguity in plotlines in the show and that's why I think it either wasn't the writers' intent, or it was, but for only one episode, and then no longer by the next one.

Maybe they wanted to leave the audience to wonder, maybe that's why they could've not revealed what happened in its entirety, but why was that the only thing I recall being left as such a mystery, bigger than Isabella's disappearance or Firuze's plot twist? What was the point? Not to mention that it would, again, discard all of E03's build-up.

#magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #muhtesem yuzyil #mahidevran sultan #ayse hafsa sultan #ask #ganeshkfp

[mc-critical]

Since you said you just rewatched Isabella's arc, what do you think really happened at her end? Was she really killed or just sent away by boat to a monastery in Vienna like Suleiman said to Ibrahim? Hurrem told Nigar and Gul aga to throw them to sea, but scene was cut after Gul aga then said princess was still alive. A little hesitation seems to happen in Hurrem's face. Or maybe that really happened and Suleiman knew everything and just wanted to exculpate Hurrem so he kinda lied to Ibrahim? What do you think? :)

It remained more of a plot hole than anything, since the show didn't confirm it outright still, but I think there were much more hints given that Hürrem actually killed Isabella and SS eventually learned about it and covered for her than any other possible resolution for the plot line.

Hürrem was very adamant in throwing both Karmina and Isabella to Bosphorus and despite of the look she gave after Gül told her the princess was alive, there wasn't any indicator that she might have changed her mind. (or else they would have shown us, because think about it, would the show miss a chance in showing that Hürrem has some remorse/humanity left inside of her, even in regards to her enemies at this point? Highly doubt it.) Isabella and the servant were already gone in the morning and while I get why, say, Gülşah would wait until the morning to tell Mahidevran about her discovery through eavesdropping (she wasn't the brightest crayon in the room and the plot demanded it for a reason.), why would Nigar and Gül Aga wait until the morning to execute Hürrem's order? They knew full well that it was risky to keep her there, for that someone would find her sooner or later, Hürrem also knew that and wanted them to quickly deal with this problem (Nigar has shown her agency when it came to the orders of someone before, but given she helped with the poisoning, ordered by Ibrahim, that brought Karmina's death, would she risk Isabella being around to expose everything? And Gül Aga was unconditionally loyal to Hürrem.), so that's why I think they threw them both into Bosphorus before the morning came and were done with it.

Now, it would be something else if someone from SS's people found Isabella, told SS and he somehow intervened. Alright, but how and when exactly did that happen when SS had no idea whatsoever of what had happened to Isabella in the morning? Did he simply pull an act then? That would have been too much of a stretch, even for him. He wouldn't scold everyone and call for an investigation if he did. Even if he found out eventually, was there even a time for him to intervene? The episode was pretty tick with its plot threads, the pacing was very fast and we quickly, very quickly transitioned with Hürrem declaring her victory in front of little Mihrimah when we were still in day, while SS's confrontation with Hürrem was at night. How would he intervene and what would he do?  Make up a story and send Isabella back to her country instead? Actually, Melike Ipek Yalova once claimed that this is what happened in an interview, little Mustafa had that suspicion while Mahidevran was looking at the SS-Hürrem nightly confrontation as well, and that could be the truth and it makes what the show showed even messier as a result, but dizis are usually written week for week and Meryem Uzerli mentioned in her confession interview about her disappearance in S03 that the script was constantly changing due to Meral's illness, hence that could've been only one of the versions of what happened and Melike might have had no idea about what they ultimately chose. (similarly to Cansu Dere, who, as I discerned due to her take on Firuze's relationship with SS in the MC: "Secret World" documentary, had no idea about the poison twist, probably because that was revealed after Cansu left and they simply hadn't planned the twist in advance. Melike's last scene as Isabella was her confrontation with Hürrem before Hürrem gave the order to get rid of both Karmina and her.) In-universe, SS couldn't have possibly brought her back to her country in my opinion, why? Because he was so ready to use Isabella as a tool for his political game just until a while ago, wanted her as close as possible (that was his reasoning for having her in the harem) and while he may have given a sign to Ibrahim that he may do an exception with her as a state matter due to him having a halvet with her, wouldn't sending her to his country thwart all he had in mind entirely? Wouldn't that be a little too risky when SS declared her dead? (yes, Gritti sent a message to Frederick that Isabella was actually alive and Frederick planned to get her back somehow, but no one else next to him believed him about that and told him to stand still, hence most people still thought of her as dead and SS has no idea that Frederick and Gritti know.) Okay, maybe he wanted to protect Isabella from Hürrem doing something to her since she's too valuable as a state matter and he didn't want strife in his harem (or at least that's what he convinces himself), so he might have put her somewhere far from everyone. But wouldn't it be more logical to send her to Carl, just as he planned, again not a while ago? Maybe he wanted to have her somewhere no one expected her to be, but why in her country, he would lose political points like this?

If he brought her to a monastery for her to cleanse herself of her sins like he actually said, he gives up from using her as a political tool entirely.... why exactly? Because of Hürrem and because of protection, when he still prioritized politics over his harem after all? (and he said a few episodes ago that the empire cannot be ruled when you're influenced by a woman or her tears) He may have thought she was played enough and maybe he wanted to give her a closure, but again, we're back to when did that happen exactly when the events were running one after another? Yes, this way he would have a win-win and Isabella would be far and secluded from everyone, but where did all the grand plans with her go, how did it happen? He demanded investigation while Isabella was gone after all and if he found out from the investigation, I doubt he could've interfered, because I doubt Isabella survived a throw into Bosphorus or she somehow escaped herself or found a ship that could save her or something. Besides, what happened to Karmina then? If SS found out, she would've been thrown into Boshorus anyway, because she was dead and no one would leave Isabella hanging until he waited for the investigation results? And if not, what, his people would just drag Isabella along to a monastery off-screen? And would Isabella trust they even were SS's people after what happened to her in the harem? This would've been much of a chase. Even without people, how did SS order a boat in the middle of the night when what happened happened in the morning after? etc. etc.

I believe SS found out about this whole ordeal at a point when he couldn't have interfered anymore and made up a story to cover for Hürrem and the loss. This simply makes the most sense given the timeline of events. While we were still wondering what happened to Isabella, Valide heard Hürrem's words to Mihrimah, her telling SS and after a conversation between the foreigners that had nothing to do with Isabella, a transition between day and night happened. Then Hürrem is called by SS, Gül is worried and Hürrem tells him the following: "If you acted like this all day, everyone must have understood that it was you." (along with him being worried about Mahidevran telling SS about her suspicions, which hints even more that they were correct.) This says more than enough for me. Hürrem sees her order as executed and the results of SS's investigation must have come to him at the night and then he couldn't have done anything, but simply make up a story to save his dignity and Ego, what's done is done. The confrontation with Hürrem itself shows that SS already knows more about Hürrem's involvement in the matter than simply Valide's accusations: he looks madder than he would if Isabella wasn't a lost cause, he started to speak about how his kids should always know who he is and then switched to asking Hürrem to remember who she's standing in front of. She has apparently crossed a line, a pretty big line that went over SS's own head. He also says: "What kind of love is this, Hürrem?  Is love destroying? What's the limit of it? When will you stop? When will you be stopped?". Would he say that if she hasn't gone on the road to no return regarding Isabella? Yes, SS has punished her for something she hasn't done before in the past, he has played both with actions and words her and everyone else more than once, but this time these words leave room for something else. They hint that Hürrem has gotten what she wanted and that she couldn't be stopped, not even by him.

The confrontation with Ibrahim happened only the next day, after SS confronted Hürrem and came to terms with what happened. After all, he can't say outright, not even to Ibrahim who knew was against Hürrem and already doubted for other stuff, that Hürrem has done it under his nose. It would accommodate him much more to project the image of a higher authority who doesn't allow for stuff to happen without his knowledge and consent, for people to respect him as such and reconsider working behind his back or betraying his trust. SS wants absolute loyalty and when he can't get that or he suspects that he hasn't gotten that, he tends to remind everyone of how above them he is, no matter how much has he messed up himself or how right or wrong are his deeds.

I may be overthinking, because all this arc turned out to be was pointless fuel at the end of the day and I doubt they applied so much logic to it, but this is where I stand on its resolution.

#magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #muhtesem yuzyil #sultan suleiman #hurrem sultan #isabella fortuna #ask #ganeshkfp

[mc-critical]

I don't know if it was asked before, but what do you think about Valide and Beyhan Sultan? I know she is not her real daughter in history, but in the show she still called her daughter and in episode 102 Hatice said they have the same mother and father. Yet...I think Valide was a little more careless to her if you compare her love for Hatice. Show didn't give us many details about Beyhan and her past, but for a mother who got sick just after hearing her daughter got betrayed (Hatice-Ibrahim), her reaction and care for Beyhan after Beyhan's husband death seemed...low and weak to me. Maybe it's because she is older, or wasn't with her for years like Hatice, what do you think? :)

I never got such an ask before, don't worry. :)

Valide wasn't shown to be that close to her daughters other than Hatice, but this could be more because of their place of introduction - Şah and Fatma got introduced in the third and fourth seasons respectively and that was when Valide was dead, hence leaving us with no chance to flesh her relationship with them out. Still it's weird that they got no more than a passing mention by Valide and that was in her monologue in E58. In the case of Beyhan, I feel it has more to do with Beyhan's prominence in the story - she was (unfortunately) barely around and when she was around, she was usually around for emotional support to other characters, which also didn't truly allow a detailed development. Not to mention that Beyhan was usually supporting Hatice, her most fleshed out relationship which consisted of separate scenes between them and limited even further her interactions with her mother. The sisters so often seemed to be a family that's independent of Valide, even though they consider her a part of it as well, maybe because they can share stuff with each other that Hafsa would reprimand them for or simply not understand. It's like the dynastic family learns to rely on each other first and foremost, something both Şah and Hatice advocated for and Beyhan seemed to be on board with. No matter how strong her will to cut her family out was after the execution of her husband was, she didn't cut Hatice or Şah out, even when she appeared to resent Hatice as much as Hafsa from trying to distract her while SS was executing the punishment of her husband to the point of claiming she would understand only when SS executes Ibrahim, too.

Despite of any and all shortcomings, Beyhan was the second closest daughter to Hafsa. It's true that they didn't get much chance to interact - just like Şah and Fatma, Beyhan was far from the harem and had a very solid life for so long. They were miles apart and she could visit only so much, but still they were always happy to see each other. Beyhan also holds family in a high regard and is shown to be a very stable and mature character for the little screentime she had. It's probable Valide took Hatice in her wing because of the death and misery she experienced, in contrast to Beyhan's relatively calm life far away. There's clearly a strive for protection of the daughter that seemed to have experienced more sorrow and not have a marriage where she could take her own life into her hands. Sure, at first Valide thought that's the reason for her sorrow (and it was, along with her love for Ibrahim, rendered impossible by the customs in the harem in her eyes) and tried to marry her as soon as possible, but there's a hint of favoritism Beyhan is aware of and mentioned to Şah - that Hatice is Valide's favourite daughter, the one closest to her, the one who is inspired by her and the biggest witness of the dynastic virtues Valide had and wanted everyone else to follow. Hatice being alongside Valide the most out of every other daughter of hers would normally trigger another kind of sentiment, different than anything else she had with the others. Being together everyday and being a long distance away does make a difference. And since Valide knew Beyhan was fine (before E21), she had no reason or need to bond with her all the more or visit her that much all these years before E21 happened (Beyhan visited instead). The system encourages the dynastic sultanas to have a separate life outside of the castle and that's something that's considered normal both for Valide and Beyhan, so why would that be of worry? They still had a pretty decent connection for such circumstances. As seen in E14 and E21, Valide and Beyhan were pretty fine until that scene happened.

Beyhan confronting everyone after her husband's execution is a very important scene for her, because all of her familial ties seem to be breaking apart. She is shown to be a big emotional support to everyone else afterwards, but here, it's like no one fully understood what she went through. Similarly to the way they were trying to help Hatice get over Ibrahim in S03, here Beyhan appears to feel the same Hatice felt. They were trying the way they knew how, but they weren't helping. And what's worse, while with Hatice they were mostly saying that it would pass, with Beyhan they try to justify SS's decision. They're right, yes, because the audience knows that he was a continuous traitor, but Beyhan didn't and couldn't see it that way (at least not yet) and they didn't understand. Only Hatice tried to understand, but to Beyhan that all was just empty words, because Hatice was trying to empathize, but how could she empathize when she doesn't know the actual extent of that pain? Valide also didn't understand. And she couldn't understand. She wasn't truly willing to go beyond what had to be done and consolation while justifying the object of Beyhan's rage would in no way work at that moment. Beyhan was indeed disappointed by everyone then, which caused her to detach herself to all these alleged familial values, because that was almost fully destroyed. And while SS was the most culpable in this aspect and Beyhan was aware of that, Valide (and Hatice) also plays a part in this with her bad attempts to console. And Beyhan's actions are totally understandable.

Still, we should note that Valide didn't react in the same way she did when she found out about Ibrahim's affair, because the situations were inherently different. Ibrahim's infidelity seemed to be both a bigger and more personal issue than Ferhat's execution. Or actually, Ferhat's execution was a necessity regardless, in spite of Beyhan's feelings, something that needed to be done for "the order to be kept" after so many betrayals from the pasha, while with Ibrahim we have a situation with a whole cascade of consequences and many, too ruthless executions. It would not only hurt Hatice's feelings, but it would distort all the balance and piece of the dynasty in a massive way. We once again circle back to Beyhan being more stable as a character, we see that, but Valide also knows that and she may not have expected Beyhan to want to cut herself out from everyone like that. She expected her to understand the necessity of the execution anyway, but with Hatice she knew that wouldn't be possible because of all she suffered because of Ibrahim and the fragile state of her mind. Beyhan was different in that regard and even though they lived far from each other, I believe Valide knew that about her daughter. And we see that Beyhan did the right call in cutting herself out for a bit and took things far better than Hatice did when it came to her husband's death because of it.

We should hand it to Hafsa for still trying numerous times to stop Ferhat's execution before it happened. It showed that she was perfectly able to take and did take the feelings of her children into consideration, because she knew that would hurt Beyhan in some ways and used that as an argument in front of SS. This even made him wait and postpone the decision as much as he could. But really, Valide took account of Beyhan's feelings, but I feel her reaction went past her worst expectations. There is also the angle of Valide's motherhood and value of family being in conflict with her immense care for tradition. (both layers of her character were in accordance in Hatice's case.)

And ultimately, Beyhan realized that a punishment for her husband was in order (but exile, not execution!), reunited with Hatice, regretting her earlier words to her, and came to mourn Hafsa after all, but the wound still remained and I don't think she let it go completely. She didn't come in the harem (except for E84 when Hatice called Hürrem out for the entertainment), which could mean that there's a part of her that would never go back there because of the lingering memory. And that included both SS and Valide.

#magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #muhtesem yuzyil #beyhan sultan #ayse hafsa sultan #ask #ganeshkfp #beyhan's character is soo interesting when one starts to analyze her #and that's even with the amoung of screentime she had #they had to give her more screentime #the potential was practically limitless #then again if she was there more they could have just put her in intrigues #because the writers love repetions #but still there's hope because say 3 sisters against Hü in S03B would be too much #and it would be sorta OOC for Beyhan too? #and also Valide's relationships with her daughters are interesting to think about #i have a separate headcanon of Şah heh #*amount

[mc-critical]

I've asked a very similar question before, sorry! ♡︎:) But how do you think Hurrem's enemies( Mahi, Ibrahim, Hatice, Gulfem...) would react if Hurrem really died in her suicide attempt?(in ep 72) What would they do? Well it's a... very big deal. I can easily imagine Suleiman's or her children' reaction. But her enemies...it's a little hard to imagine. What do you think? :)

No worries! :)

There's one thing for sure: all of them would be very surprised at the news. No one, except probably Mahidevran, would expect her to go that far and for Firuze to have lowered her spirit and confidence of her victory as much as she did.

Mahidevran would most likely learn about it in Manisa and be the one to react as quickly as possible. After a single shocked expression and a slight hint of curiosity about the sudden immediacy of Hürrem's death, her first job would be to tell Mustafa and Taşlicali about it and discuss with them how to act from that moment on. They may go to the capital and it would be then when Mahidevran learns how exactly did it happen probably by Gülfem and/or Hatice. She would try her best to ensure Mustafa's the one to sit on the throne, but won't be as obvious as she was the first time SS was assumed dead and Hü was ready to give up on it all, she wouldn't make the same mistake again. She would consider it easier though, given Hürrem is no longer around, but would be on hold even more than usual for SS's actions, because they would be what's most important then. If he still sends Mustafa to Amasya at some point (which he definetly will, because after Hürrem's death he would be even more determined to put Mehmet, or at least one of her sons on the throne), she would still send Illyas to win his trust and would keep an eye on Manisa like this. She would perhaps have to fight against the Mihrimah/Rüstem faction (which would be inevitable after Hü's death and their first target would probably be Firuze.), so she may send spies in the castle and may also motivate Mustafa to act against them, too, before they succeed putting Mehmet on the throne, similarly to what she told him in E103. And last, but not least, she won't even pretend grieving for SS and Hürrem. {I also headcanon that if Mahidevran somehow understands before anyone that Firuze had been poisoning SS this whole time, she would keep this to herself and support it. If that S04 organization protecting Mustafa still is a thing and appears in S03, it's possible for Mahi to become a part of it or even lead it. They may also help Firuze's cause. 😏}

I see Ibrahim lamenting on what they've gone through with Hürrem, if only for the sake of the hardships or lessons that would need to be learned from this in his perspective. But he would also certainly support Süleiman in that moment - despite of his enmity with Hürrem, he understands what she means to him and would try to alleviate his pain as much as possible, be it with him calming him down through words that everything will be alright or playing the violin for him. Ibrahim would perhaps feel safer once Hürrem is gone, for his major enemy is no longer around. That would make him more confident and in the political arena and he could slip up with his words there. Though he would turn his eye on Rüstem even more now and would perhaps try to stop him teaming up with Mihrimah by keeping him away from the capital. (he may send him to Teke, was it, just like he did in the show and it wouldn't be as likely for him to come back, since he and his influence would be weakened even more far away from Istambul and without Hürrem.) At this point he may actually succeed to limit Rüstem's hold and even get rid of him entirely, if he does it when Mihrimah is still grieving for her mother and hasn't considered how to act yet. He would focus more on both the state matters and Hatice and Esmanur. Now, would Ibro still be executed in such scenario? If he manages to do the above with Rüstem, it's possible not to, since his lion speech wouldn't be found by Rüstem when he's several distance away. But if he makes other mistakes, SS could still punish him, because I feel Hürrem's death would make him even more wary and paranoid, even less merciful and just for how much he still pats himself on the back that he's such. And if Rüstem and Mihrimah ultimately team up, it's possible for Rüsti may convince her at some point that they have to get rid of Ibrahim, but that'll still take a considerable amount of time. (she would show even more resistance when it comes to Mustafa.)

Once Hatice learns of the death, she could feel a bit of regret that it ended that way and would hope for Firuze or Ibrahim to succeed to calm SS down (she would try once, maybe twice, too), but her bigger concerns would lie elsewhere. Since Mehmet and Mihrimah would take on the roles of parental figures to their little brothers, Hatice may focus her efforts on lifting them up when they're down. She loves her nephews a lot after all and wouldn't bear to see them grieve. I see her having even more touching conversations with Mihrimah, advising her to stay strong for the people she cares about, no matter how hard it may seem. Hatice is certainly going to relate with her nephews for the loss of a person close to them, because she has had a similar experience. Hatice is also going to focus on her family even more, now that peace would be more possible in her eyes and she and Ibrahim would still heal their wounds. But she may still have to involve herself in harem matters regardless - if the Mihrimah/Rüstem faction happens, she would try to reach out to Mihrimah and if that doesn't work, she may try acting alone somehow and could still team up with Mahidevran to stop them, or stop Rüstem, at least.

Gülfem would perhaps tell Hatice (and Mahidevran) that Hürrem's death is really unfortunate and again, would be the one to relate the most with her experience of wanting to end her life when she seemingly loses everything. I don't see her doing that much though, except for being an emotional support. She would support Mehmet and Mihrimah and by extension, Süleiman, since he himself would reach out to her as his conscience, similarly to S04 and she would be the one to give him a word of advice for how to get over his loss.

#magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #muhtesem yuzyil #hurrem sultan #mahidevran sultan #ibrahim pasha #hatice sultan #gulfem hatun #mihrimah sultan #rustem pasha #ask #ganeshkfp

[mc-critical]

Hellooo 🤗 First, I have been following your blog for a while and I love your blog so much! I hope you are doing well :) And my ask to you can be a little bit complex. I have been thinking about why Hatice chose not to kill Hurrem when she kidnapped her for 2 years. I know hurrem obviously can't die for the history :) and they had to change the scenario for Meryem's absence but I want to think this in the my universe, some suggest that her whole purpose was to revenge suleyman, more than hurrem. Because in ep 85, she said to him that she wanted to kill hurrem just because she wanted suleyman to suffer and feel the same pain as her. And some people say that it's because she just couldn't do this because she is still so...merciful. In short, I sometimes have troubles to understand the dynamics and the bond between hurrem and hatice. They are both very complex characters and there is so many hatice hate in this fandom and I am saying this as an hurrem fan :) So I would be very happy if you can answer my question and this complex dynamics between them 😊💕

Hey there! 🤗 Thank you for your words and yes, I'm fine. :)

I agree that the whole abduction plot was clearly done in order to excuse Meryem's departure in-universe in some way. And Hürrem couldn't be killed because of historical accuracy and the whole lot of stuff she had to do in the script afterwards. She couldn't just die like that, they had to wrap her arc up in some way and both the consequences of the abduction and S04 itself were very important for Hürrem's character.

That aside, I don't think the writers gave us a clear cut reason as to why Hatice didn't kill Hürrem. I always considered the way Hürrem survived to be a plot hole for the sake of the plot and time constraints the team faced by the end of the season. There were many cases the show abused the attacks of Hürrem done by her enemies, they sometimes turned out to be so miscalculated and so absurd that Hürrem would always survive. They became so much, we have seen such scenarios so many times now that Hürrem surviving is something I would take for granted by now and wouldn't question for that and that alone. The survival, in practice, is as contrived as it can be and knowing the difficulties behind the scenes, I refused to think of the how and the why of the fact alone.

However, yes, the abduction was not only a way to cover up for Meryem's departure, it ultimately became the conclusion of Hatice's whole character arc, culminating in one last move against Hürrem.

After she forgave Ibrahim about the infidelity, their wounds started to heal and they finally had the chance to start over. And it seemed to pay off... until he died. Ibrahim's death was a new low in Hatice's arc which caused her to lose hope in her own life. She was ready to end it... but not before she got rid of the object of her rage. Thing is, even though Hatice acted against Hürrem before and fully stood against her by S03 for multiple reasons (I elaborated on all that and the many nuances of Hatice's character here), we could say that her wanting to kill Hürrem was the turning point of her storyline and arc in the second half of the season. Before that Hatice's actions against Hürrem were primarily motivated by her threatening everything Hatice cared about at once - both dynasty and family and Hürrem taking Valide's chambers was the last nail of the coffin, which is why her first true move against Hürrem was done through methods the tradition and the harem stood by. (Firuze) I doubt she wanted to kill her then, it was all about the protection of Hatice's personal attachments. She wanted to put her in line, to make her stop, to defeat her for everyone to return to their peaceful lives. What she wanted most of all was a stable family with Ibrahim. And after Ibrahim died, the chance for one was gone. Hatice knew well of Hürrem's enmity with Ibrahim and didn't know of Ibrahim's speeches, hence she didn't have anyone else to blame other than Hürrem and Süleyman. After everything began to go well, Ibrahim's death once again destroyed her "perfect picture", she lost the person that became the bounder of dynasty and family after she forgave him, her everything, a loss for the state, as well. (she praised all his achievements during campaigns after he died) The needs of the dynasty fully became her own personal motives by the time Ibrahim was dead. She already had enough rage against Hürrem at this point, but now that rage increased all the more. That rage, close to hatred, became directed at Süleiman, as well, for taking such a devastating decision, disregarding Hatice's own values and life in her eyes and reminding her of all the death and trauma she had experienced, so the only thing she would do, is move against them both. Yes, Süleiman took away a piece of Hatice's life, now it is her turn to take away a piece of his life. Her enmity against Hürrem took a wholly different turn. Now she truly is the object of all her misery and pain, to the point she thought that her coming in the harem to begin with caused destruction everywhere around - it destroyed everything, according to Hatice, including Süleiman, as she told him in her last scene.

There's also another thing we should look at- all of Hatice's actions in E83, which I feel are very detrimental for her S03B arc. It almost feels like Hatice is in a conflicted state of mind - she lost a lot from Ibrahim's death, she no longer had a point of existing and yet, she wants those who caused her pain to suffer, she wants to end them. She feels that Ibrahim's death is a gross injustice that has to be avenged and yet, she wants to suffer alone with herself, alone with her own pain. Her suicide attempt in the same episode "marries" these two states of mind and puts Hatice's later actions into context - Şah saving her and her promise to end Hürrem is a major reason why Hatice kept going, because it's a modicum of support she hasn't gotten from this person for a long time. It's a promise to fix what has passed. Hürrem's elimination would "fix" what has passed in Hatice's eyes, it would be a natural right, to say the least. Şah saving Hatice gave her the only motivation to live and that's one reason why Hatice fixated so much in it. And if we put her growing depression in the mix, we see that she didn't really get the chance to heal from such big loss. No one truly managed to alleviate her pain or to understand her, everyone was only expecting her to move on, to get over it, without actually doing anything helpful, because "time heals", now doesn't it? In a point Hatice begins to view any action that appear to try "alleviating her pain" as a forced interference in her own life by creating various situations (like Şah redecorating her castle, the exile in Manisa, the marriage with Hüsrev Pasha etc.) for her to adapt in without really considering how she actually felt. She couldn't cope with Ibrahim's death in a healthy way, so the only thing left of her was this wound that kept growing, instead of healing. She was fueled by promises of an end to her misery and will for revenge, but when these promises weren't being fulfilled, she fell even further into despair and acting against the ones who caused her suffering became her only coping mechanism. Which culminated in the abduction.

I know that the writers tried their best to weave a mystery out of this whole plot line, but Hatice being the one behind the abduction wasn't surprising in the slightest - I always saw it as a desparate move of hers to get rid of Hürrem, in a way Süleiman would never predict she would be capable of in her right mind, in a way no one could stop her from doing what she must. Hatice admitted that this was done in order for Süleiman to feel what she felt, to fuel him with false promises the way they all fueled her (see the last Hatice and SS scene before her death) and finish it all by herself, by finally, finally doing what should havе done long ago. The fact that no one knew what happened exactly is something I think Hatice would definetly pull in her most broken state, aside from the sloppy writing, because when everything is kept under wraps, the fate of Hürrem is all in her hands and she would deal with her successfully and effortlessly, without anyone managing to prove anything. This was her revenge, this was the way she would finish it. 

I honestly don't understand her not killing her, aside from the plot convenience, because at this point.. oh yes, Hatice would absolutely kill her and as I mentioned before, she already wanted to kill her, to eliminate what has become the root of all the problems in the family and in the harem and again, take a piece of Süleiman's life as he did with her. Simply putting Hürrem in her place as she wanted in some moments of S02 and on a stronger level in all of S03A wouldn't cut it anymore. But then again, Hatice did tell Hürrem many times throughout S03B that she can make her suffer in a way she would beg for her death, as shown with her doing the whole thing with the herbs. She probably wanted to do this first and then kill her and Hürrem just... succeeded to escape in the meantime? I would've totally believed this was the case if we didn't get these little hints from Hatice in Bali Bey's interrogation in E102: there she said that she wanted to avenge Ibrahim's death so much, but she couldn't do it. She couldn't succeed. That could mean so many things. It sure didn't mean Hürrem's escape, because she escaped a year later (confirmed by E103), so there must be another thing that stopped her. While Hatice is an overally ethical character, she wouldn't be all that merciful at this point of the show, because of all the reasons I stated above and the fact that she has ordered an execution before. (Nigar) Maybe Hürrem showed or told her something that stopped Hatice from doing it? Maybe Hatice found out that that this whole thing made her more miserable? The most probable reason for me is what she hinted at in her last scene which indeed has more to do with Süleiman than with Hürrem: maybe she saw all the unsuccessful attempts to kill Hürrem and wanted to put her in a place they could never find her in instead and take her away from SS and everyone else, to hit him where it hurt. To let him live with her unsure fate. For him to burn inside everyday, without the person he would do everything for, without knowing whether she lived or died, just like Hatice never got to know where Ibrahim's grave was and never got the chance to get over her pain. She didn't succeed to get rid of Hürrem, so she might as well do that instead. That might have been her last resort.

Because throughout all of S03B, Hatice was empty inside. She had one driving feeling that probably got bruised quite a bit after she abducted Hürrem. Complete hopelessness might have gotten over her and she may have wanted to give up the fight altogether. Killing Hürrem was apparently a hopeless cause. Happiness and piece once more were apparently a hopeless cause. She couldn't avenge Ibrahim and the only thing left was say one last goodbye with her sister, calling back on her wish for a calm family, and then confront the other member of the family left, who seemingly screwed everything up. I would say that Hatice realized that it was SS who was the decider of everyone's fates in the end and that he made so many problematic decisions that only made everyone around him suffer and that is connected with the impact Hürrem had in their lives.

[I agree that Hatice and Hürrem had a very complex dynamic that went through detailed development throughout three seasons and both of them had complex reasons to do what they did. Believe me, I never got this striking amount of Hatice hate I encounter in the fandom either, especially because these haters do so little effort to understand her character.]

#magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #muhtesem yuzyil #hatice sultan #hurrem sultan #sultan suleiman #ask #ganeshkfp #i wanted to talk about S03B Hatice for quite some time now #and this gave me the chance thank you :)

[mc-critical]

It would be more like a headcanon thing, but what do you think about the sultanas' age difference?( Hurrem, Mahidevran, Hatice, Fatma, Sah, Beyhan, Gulfem) We don't have any clue of their age, only we know that Hurrem was 17 when she came to the palace. I tried to guess by their maturity difference or even appearence. Hurrem seemed and acted way too young in S1, so I always imagined her younger than every sultana above except Fatma. Because in season 4 they showed her like she is younger than Hurrem. Sisters' ages were way too different than the history, Hatice was supposed to be the eldest sister but in the show they showed like Beyhan and Sah were older than her(I guess Fatme is the youngest then?) So, what are your ideas? :)

I think Beyhan is the oldest of them all. While she and Şah share a similar amount of maturity, Beyhan always looked and seemed the oldest one for me and the one married the earliest, hence why I felt she had the most experience in a family life of her own. Hatice was clearly younger than both of them, in my opinion.

I see Gülfem and Mahidevran to be 2 or 3 years apart from each other, because they look very close in age when they're next to each other. (just checked, the actresses are actually the same age!!!) But I think Gülfem is the older one, can't elaborate why exactly, just a feeling. 😅

I headcanon for Mahidevran to be 100% older than Hürrem, though. Hürrem is born in 1503 in the show's canon and Mahidevran's historical birth year (circa 1500) just... seems so perfect for the show, given that Nur and Meryem are also 3 years apart from each other.

Fatma is the youngest one for me, too, precisely because of what you said: she looked at least a little younger than Hürrem in their scenes. Her being the youngest would compliment even more her fun personality.

#magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #muhtesem yuzyil #ask #ganeshkfp #sorry for these being based mostly on the looks of the actresses #it is just easier to drive conclusions that way 😅

[mc-critical]

I hope you are doing well :) In episode 102, when Hurrem was lost, Suleiman had a dream of white dressed Hatice showing him a way in the forest and then finding a piece of dress that probably was Hurrem's. What did that dream and scene really mean? Why would Suleiman see that dream? And Hatice in a white dress, why? That scene was a little confusing I can't help but thinking. What do you think? :)

I'm good and enjoying the summer vacation, thank you! :)

I think that dream was a premonition dream first and foremost. At this point no one knew where Hürrem was and who did that to her and SS was, naturally, grieving, even right before the scene happened. This plot was a mystery to both the characters and the narrative and the dream gave us a more direct hint of who could have done this with Hürrem or who would at least know something about it, who could SS turn to. That's why we have Hatice leading him to Hürrem's dress on the ground. Hatice is the only key to finding Hürrem and the dream showed it. It is very similar to both the other premonition dream SS had of something bad happening to Mehmet in the next episode and Hatice's dream of Nigar leading Hatice to what presumably was Ibrahim's grave. Besides, we had Bali Bey come to SS to say they arrested the person from which they found out Hatice ordered to send the fake letter to Hürrem right after the dream happened, so this would truly be one of its meanings.

[The show loves dreams in general, but before S03 the dreams were more like mirrors of the character's fears that showed the worst probabilities in their heads, while after S03 they seemed to be straightforwardly precognitive, seemingly coming out of nowhere (that's just the Mehmet dream, but still) or having the characters "searching" for answers they desperately want to get in their heads. That's why I get why the scene might have been confusing for you.]

But outside of the dream revealing who might be behind Hürrem's abduction, we have another angle of its precognitive nature: showing how the relationship between Hatice and SS would develop from there on out, after the whole revelation. The white dress of Hatice's in the dream is the same white dress she wore in the scene of her death, when she confronted SS for the last time. The dream may show the build-up of that, the way it would lead up to this, through Hatice's steps. What's empowering this even further is SS thinking it's Hürrem, at first, and in SS and Hatice's last confrontation, we have SS also continually asking about Hürrem until he goes with Hatice's flow. (both in the dream with letting Hatice lead him and in the confrontation with listening to her speech)

Hatice going to comfort Süleiman about his apparent loss that also happens before the dream and is the last SS-Hatice confrontation before it is also very telling in so many ways. Hatice could have also appeared in the dream because he was thinking both of Hürrem and her. Hatice succeeded to comfort him in a way no one else could and no one else dared to and some shimmer of hope might have gotten to SS when she offered her help, telling him that she would support him after she called him out on stuff or avoided him for so long. Yes, I know that Hatice did this all on purpose, to spite him, to make him feel what she felt, worse even, with him losing Hürrem without even knowing how he lost her, but when I rewatched the scene again, I also felt so much bittersweet heart and sincerety in her words. Her wanting to be his sister again, to be loved again, was a strong cry for help and we could see how she had already made the decision that the battle was lost and that killing herself would be the only way she would be happy. She still sees the happiness of her loved ones, but after death, not in this life. While SS didn't get this implicit meaning, because how could he have imagined that Hatice would do something like this, these words touched him and he fully believed what she said. Maybe this confrontation led to this premonition dream, she seemed to be the only one to get him, and since SS wanted to find Hürrem most of all then, maybe Hatice was the one who had the answer. His head could've come to his conclusion. (yes, it sounds weird, but..) But the truth would be devastating to SS and would cause him yet another loss, a loss he played a part in. This dream worked as the transitional point of Hatice's supposed offered comfort SS fully bought and what Hatice actually ended up doing, a transitional point to the culmination and tragic end of their dynamic.

#magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #muhtesem yuzyil #hatice sultan #sultan suleiman #ask #ganeshkfp

[mc-critical]

I was rewatching Afife's and Hurrem's hug in ep 72 after she saved her (and got teared up 😢) I started to thinking about how Hurrem really wanted love, respect of others; especially she really wanted older figures' attention. Like she was really happy when Valide started to respect her and her speech to Valide in ep 33 after they brought Isabella to harem. I mean she was crying as she mentioned they never liked or respected her as she did to them. Also her moments with Afife, especially that hugging part. Probably they tried to show Hurrem really needed a mother figure because she lost her own before coming to the palace. She was kinda lost and really wanted someone to protect or comfort her. In her suicide speech in ep 72, she was saying 'where's my family?' after all. It's same with her friendships as well, especially her eager to make friends with Sah when she first came to the palace and she was really convinced that she actually liked her before understanding her trap. Also she really tried to be friends with Hatice, comforted her in episode 44 even though she had yelled her before. She wanted people outside to like her, was upset after people called her 'witch' like she mentioned Suleiman before. It became too long sorry 😁but what do you think about it general? :)

It's not to be denied that Hürrem wants respect in the harem and has her right to demand it, especially when it comes to everyone simply ignoring her rising place in the hierarchy, no matter what gripe they had with her. The root of her wanting respect is very understandable: she would never want to fall under an unfavorable position again after the only thing that has caused her was mistreatment and neglect from the other side, including Süleiman. There is this side of Hürrem that, deep down, wants to have someone next to her she could count on, who she could share everything with and trust unconditionally without any sign of deceit whatsoever.

The trauma she had experienced takes its tool on her and brings out her human desire to be understood. I can see many people in this harem looking for humanity within the system, at least until the point they adapt to it completely, and Hürrem is no exception, actually, dare I say, she's the epitome of this theme. Sometimes she would do stuff that would be considered totally foolish and alienating or rogue and unprecedented and when she's scolded for it, she wouldn't get why all of the sudden. There're reasons people disrespect Hürrem outside of narrative convenience and bonus points, but she genuinely doesn't understand what her fault is. She tends to prioritize humanity in these cases and emphasizes on everything she's been through in the past and how she's been mistreated; that all should stop. Deep down, Hürrem would want healthy friendships with people around her and would absolutely appreciate when someone stands up for her and her experiences in and out of the harem she perceives no one has tried to understand: it's a hole in her life that has been missing for her the moment she set foot in the harem and she has both consciously and subconsciously craved, but the system itself and the way Hürrem connects to it has prevented that wish from becoming reality both on part of the others and her own.

Hürrem had supporters from the start and we have to admit that she played a major part in driving them away. She jeopardized her possible friendship with Ayşe Hatun in E03 where she stubbornly and rudely refused to let her try the ring. She didn't set a good impression on the concubines in the harem through her rash attitude. These reactions are pretty explainable, given her rebellious spirit that would stand against the rules it's not okay with and how every little word or persistence by others she isn't okay with would make her outbursts only an instinctive reaction triggered by different factors, but that didn't really help her case when it came to support and respect. At first Hürrem did anything but try to win anyone over. And when she ended up following Nigar's advice, she seemed to give up immediately after when her efforts didn't seem to be rewarded by the harem concubines. A bad impression wouldn't wash off from the first try, especially not in this toxic wasteland where one would consider these attempts as empty platitudes at best and pragmatic calculation that only has an aim to win supporters and priveleges but for the same person to still continue doing what drove people away in the first place in spite of all, at worst. This early immature behaviour of hers is something she developed out of, or at least, had the result of it utilized more pragmatically by Hürrem, but it set the stage for what was to come, since that kind of behaviour and rebellious spirit is what seemed to trip off Ibrahim, Valide, Daye and even Nigar at points.

Something we were hinted at early on and became more prominent in Hürrem's character later on, is her wanting respect and friendships getting in the way of her goal. That need for respect of hers can only be met so much in such environment, because her goals can possibly oppose to the desires of others and she wouldn't put that above her goals all that often: truly, the only instance we got of it, is her stopping the attack on Ibrahim because of Hatice's sadness in E42 and that moment was Hürrem at her most emotionally honest (I know I'm always using that word for S02 Hürrem, but it's just like there is no better word to describe her there 😅) and was still affected by Hatice's pain, that related to her own experiences. [She truly sympathized with what a friend of hers has gone through and wouldn't want to cause her more worries. When Hürrem sees an instance where she has to necessarily act, when she's the only one who could act in that moment, that's the only time she's able to brush everything aside to help, thanks to instinctive empathy. That's also about the emotional side of her ability to show unbelievable determination and courage to do the risky to better or save a situation people might suffer heavily from, even if it seems helpless. (see: her saving Hati's kid, her taking care of everyone in the rebellion) That trait of hers however never crossed paths with her goals, except for the Hatice case, and the further we go in her development, the more the possibility of her doing something like this lowers.] Frankly, the need for respect of Hürrem's goes way beyond a simple human need for support, mostly thanks to the way it's morphed and twisted by the system. Hürrem wants someone who would stand behind all she does, someone blindly loyal, someone who would never question her, someone who would always put up with what she does or try to excuse it at least. Someone who wouldn't work behind her back even in the slightest of ways and wouldn't have even the slightest of agenda that would turn into the slightest opposition to her goal (that's why she snapped at Gülnihal to begin with). When someone she has considered a friend breaks out of that even by a little bit, they immediately turn into a foe. If that someone begins to respect Hürrem and Hürrem has earned their respect, Hürrem can freely tarnish that mutual respect between them if this person does or says something "shady" or that would benefit the bigger picture of scheming and intrigue. (see Hürrem setting Hatice against Ibrahim in S02) Hürrem wants them to at least understand what she does. That could work with Afife, but it simply cannot happen with people like Valide and Hatice, that's why there's such a turbulence between them and what Hürrem wants to achieve with her relationship with them, isn't all possible.

The only way Valide would respect Hürrem is her keeping still by not disrupting balance and respecting the order of the harem. And by the end of S01, she actually seemed to have gained it, somewhat: Hürrem was getting more adept in the system, with being more polite and not just causing drama around. This alone would go against Hürrem's wishes sooner or later, but Valide's respect stopped only when that aforementioned confrontation between them in E33 happened. Valide's crime there was bringing Isabella to the harem and since I rewatched the episode a few days ago in my current rewatch of the Isabella arc, I can confirm that actually, Valide did it only to see SS's new guest, not to piss Hürrem off, even though Hatice had such intentions then. Just when Hürrem left during the entertainment a bit after Isa arrived, she even asked Hatice did they get carried away, something she wouldn't do if she was still in such odds with Hürrem. That's why even though the scene tells us a lot about Hürrem's feelings, it rubs me the wrong way, because while it's understandable in her view, it's almost completely unwarranted in the audience's view. (the fact that Valide was basically sidelined in these episodes until that point makes things even worse) Valide and Hürrem's post-E15-pre-E33 relationship was fine until that scene. It was when, no matter how "subtle" and "respectful" it seems to be, the implications Valide got in a nutshell were: "You'll die someday, as well, and if you don't plan on giving me the harem when that happens, it's over. It's either with me or against me." And after that we have Hürrem's "getting rid of everyone" speech Valide eavesdropped on. There's no way Valide would respect such behaviour, no matter how much Hürrem wants it. There's no way Hürrem would get respect and the approval of her wedding by her after this and I sometimes end up asking myself what exactly did Hürrem expect. No amount of sincere pleas would make Valide respect her past this point. Their paths would always intersect and for a functional support to even be possible, one of them has to compromise. And Hürrem, predictably and mostly understandably, wouldn't. Valide began respecting her again only when she saw how loyal she was to SS, something she didn't think Hürrem possessed because of her (extreme in nature in Valide's eyes) goals, and even then Hürrem winded up reminding Valide of all their past experiences in E61 when they were already in good terms, because of a higher goal, no less. Hürrem tried to be on good terms with Valide and reach out to her, but that was when far too much damage was done. There isn't one side of the issue, both have their reasons and motives.

Hatice respected Hürrem quite a lot early on: she respected her love for SS, her ability to calm her down and help her out, she stood against injustice against Hürrem etc., but that stopped being the case when Hü began interfering in her personal life in order to knock Ibrahim down a peg. Even before that Hü wanted to stop Hatice's marriage with Ibro in S01, because that would make Ibro more powerful. There were many factors that stood against Hatice's respect for Hürrem: threatening the dynasty and the tradition simultaneously, Hürrem's petty remarks on how Hatice no longer has the fire in her to win Ibrahim over again, simply because Hatice dared to oppose her wanting Valide's chambers and so on and so forth. Hatice wouldn't go and respect someone who constantly threatens what is dear to her like that and yet Hürrem's path to victory and feud with Ibrahim was too far gone to be stopped.

Due to Hürrem having way too many enemies already, her need for respect later on is shaped by a pattern. When a new person appears, she goes out there, tests the waters and if that person seems welcoming and supportive, she takes that for granted and is really happy about it until that person does something that would contradict said impression. See how that's the case with Şah Sultan: the moment Şah placed Lütfi in the divan at the end of E83 and went in Hatice's castle to be of support for Ibrahim's loss in E84 and Hürrem thought she would listen to their words, she decided to break her word and put entertainment in the harem anyway, despite of saying she would respect Hatice's grief. (no matter that she wanted permission from SS) And the sad part is, that to her, it cannot be helped, because "she isn't the one who has started the war" and it is a game of life and death for her. If she doesn't fulfill her goal, if she loses SS... it's over. And she will never let herself prevent that from happening. Winning takes primacy over the will for respect: she wants that respect in order to be supported in a human way just out of basic decency as much as she wants it to not let herself be disrespected or mistreated ever again, and when that isn't given to her, she goes in the other direction.

The whole fight she fights has set this will for respect to show only in casual conversations with new people in the palace as a way to open up to them and in a state of vulnerability, which is a point where Hürrem has been discarded as often as she has been given the support she needed. Hürrem isn't really a person to open up all that much, aside from moments where she feels she has been seriously offended or when something far too crucial happens for her to resist breaking down. She has vowed to shed tears only for her family (SS ends up becoming part of her family, too) and never show weakness in front of her enemies and the more we go, the more Hürrem tends to restrain that part of hers and bottle it up inside her. She already lets herself get vulnerable only when she's all alone. She gets vulnerable only when she's on the verge of losing something. These moments become the ones Hürrem actually needed support and understanding, someone to assure her that it will all be alright. First with Cihangir's illness, then with E55, then with E72 or E78.

The whole monologue in E72 is a very profound moment for Hürrem overall: it perfectly illuminated the part of Hürrem which, in a place of vulnerability and defeat, where everything she strove for seemed to fall apart, she was wondering: "what went wrong? which way did I go?". In this monologue she was searching for what she has lost, her family symbolized what had gone missing in her as a consequence of the games of survival in the harem. In that moment she acknowledged that everything that bound her to life itself was seemingly gone - her present she got her power and pieces of security from (SS) and her past roots (her family). In that scene she felt she had nothing anymore, no one to turn to, she truly felt purposeless and alone. I agree that there Afife's support meant a lot to her, because she felt like she was being in a situation without exit. The one person she didn't expect it that much from, even though she had the hope she would understand what Hürrem went through before that, giving her the hope that it's not over yet.. means something and it was what Hürrem desperately needed.

But Hürrem can put that part of herself behind as easily as she can let it out. And both her goal and her environment set her to only show that part of hers on certain instances and put it as a means to an end, completely justifying her moves that end up discarding it in reality. My point is: the coin has many sides. Hürrem is justified in wanting support and respect due to deep desire induced by her loss of family and what was taken away from her in such a young age and how, deep down, a part of her wouldn't really want none of what happened to happen, but there're many factors that get in the way of that and sometimes Hürrem loses every chance for that respect she craves. It's a much too complex situation where everyone stands for what they believe in and these beliefs fight with one another. That's why there couldn't really be respect and peace in that place.

#magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #muhtesem yuzyil #hurrem sultan #ask #ganeshkfp

[hurremshiv]

Thanks for the request @ganeshkfp

#adorable aunt hatice #hatice sultan #selma ergeç #magnificent century #el sultán #muhteşem yüzyıl #my edits

[hurremshiv]

For @ganeshkfp​. Thank you so much for the request! I love their friendship too.

#hürrem sultan #hatice sultan #magnificent century #el sultán #muhteşem yüzyıl #liviahurremandtheodora #my edits