#for example. when i try writing characters religiously neutral i just make them catholic

[yellowocaballero]

related to the previous ask you answered, if you’re up for it - incredibly curious about how you research stuff for your writing. I feel like you’re so good at capturing all these little details of a life with such humour that I’m always going ‘how is yellow meg caballero not x identity’ (which is obviously not true & just the sign of a good writer, etc etc but still). Are you just out here talking to five million different types of people?? And understanding them??

Yes hello hi <3 <-- catching up on ask

I really do have the awful habit of swerving dramatically out of my lane and talking about shit I have no business talking about. I don't even do a lot of research, or at least not as much research as I should. I'm genuinely a terrible person to emulate here. But as for like how it tends to happen.

One half of it is. Patrick Stewart voice Writing fiction.

jaklsjdflksadf the other half is like...yeah, I talk to a lot of people. I like people a lot. I find everybody really interesting, and even if I don't like somebody then it's still interesting to have learned about a new kind of person. Over the internet especially is so much fun - everybody has at least one thing super interesting about them! Everybody has a unique trait or has had an experience totally unfamiliar to me. I also just really have an eclectic knowledge of a shitton of extremely useless stuff, I watch a lot of random-ass YouTube essays, all of it. Baby I got information even I don't care about for days lol.

Some of my characters are based lowkey off people I know. Sometimes they're based off me at different points in my lives, or the kind of person I used to think I was. I think most often they fit into a category of people I've met in my life - for example, for an OC I'm writing right now, she's based off this type of person I know. And in there I look for what I always liked about those people, what I always related to about those people, and how I always interacted with them. They're often kinds of people I don't even necessarily like. You never really want to do "well im writing [marginalized group] so I'll just make them [friend from marginalized group]", but for me once I meet and talk to enough people from that group kind of the experience and perspective that being in that group gives you emerges. The 'why' of the experience stands out, and you can go deep into that.

All that said, I look for the similarities instead of the differences. My MK stuff isn't about being a system (cuz not that.), it's about having a highly stigmatized mental illness, and somebody's relationship with their identity as a mentally ill person, which is something I can understand. Lots of my SW stuff was about...existential dread, lol. I do just know a fuckton of neurodivergent and trans and etc people. And I think we do just project - I'll interpret a character as having my experiences instead of another's, because I'm SUPER loose with characterizations lol. But yeah I'm just constantly talking to people about their experiences and if you do that enough then a bigger, more relatable experience emerges lol. Everybody knows that there's really only like five emotions.

That being said I made a joke in a recent Moon Knight fic about how baby Marc liked baby Steven at first just because he would wake up and his bed would randomly be made. And my sys friend was like "HOW did you know about chore ghost??". So. Lucky accident a lot of the time I think. Thanks for the Q though, I'm happy I succeed at this!

#my writing #when i do run into issues and i dont do things right is when i don't recognize that an experience isn't my own #e.g. i assume that the experience of this group is similar to my own and it rly isn't #ppl be the same but we think really differently sometimes too #for example turns out some christians believe different things than catholics do and it's SUPER FUCKED UP #i feel like ppl can be afraid to write characters of different identities significantly differentiated from each other #like to write a guy mindfully as different from a girl because he's a guy #but i think just kinda homogenizing everything creates that inauthenticity #and more importantly the 'default' 'neutral' is often the majority #idk i dont like ignoring things #for example. when i try writing characters religiously neutral i just make them catholic #and this is sending ME to hell

[lorei-writes]

Basic Guide on How Not To: Slavic Characters

Well, as most of you have probably realised by now, I’m Polish. Truthfully, I am quite upset now. I generally tend to avoid most content involving Slavic people, because well, stereotypes are plentiful and I have only one stomach - there is only so much anger I can fit inside of it. However, this time I was merrily watching an episode of a series, for goodnight sleep, and got smacked in the face with just that... So, I suppose, let’s use my anger towards something - hopefully - productive. This is a very hard post for me to write. It may be closer to my personal experience, although I did try to be more general.

Contents:

Where Do I Even Begin or Sad Slav Filter

Common Stereotypes - Professions & Jobs

Common Stereotypes - Characteristics

Few basic issues with languages & names

Where Do I Even Begin or Sad Slav Filter

Grey buildings, empty plazas, ominous blocks of flats with walls up to the very sky. Snow. Gloom faces. Dark nights. Red. Gold.

To start with, be aware that this sort of image is oftentimes not only written into stories or presented in picture-based media, but that I had the displeasure of seeing it being used for cover art for several books.

What I jokingly call sad Slav filter is presenting the reality of Eastern Europe* through, well, pessimistic glasses. The architecture speaks of terror, of being post-communist state, of never having recovered. The streets portrayed in such fashion are gloom, unwelcoming, threatening in a way. Winter is oftentimes the season of choice, to add an extra layer of depressive atmosphere and cold. Nobody smiles. One may say that usage of gold and red brightens the image - however, those connect directly to the communist flag, thus locking the entire space in a rather obvious context.

The reality?

Yes, old blocks of flats built in 60s or so still exist. Some are even grey and in dire need of being re-painted! However... Many are not in such a state. In Poland, the common colours for elevation of such buildings are white, pastel orange, pastel yellow and pastel green, oftentimes put together in combination of stripes or other geometric shapes. What also should be noted is that such estates were designed with plenty trees and other plants around them in mind, as to accommodate for a development of a community - especially for older blocks of flats, those are most likely situated nearby a primary school and a kindergarten, not to mention stores and other services. It is not uncommon for playgrounds to be present as well. You could also expect small flower gardens.

Parks exist here. Architecture does not begin and end at the blocks of flats, especially not in the major cities - most, if not all, have old towns or historical representative streets. Buildings dating back to medieval still do exist in plenty of places. Churches & Tserkovs - those are oftentimes tourists sites for a reason! 

It may happen that the side of a building will be decorated with a mural. It is not very common, but does happen. Here are some examples (from Poland). The designs sometimes relate to other works of art, or to some forms of traditional art.

mural by NeSpoon, a street artist who incorporates motives of koronka ludowa [a type of lace] into her artwork

Overall, I come from a poorer region of Poland, from a small town to add to that. The one thing I would list about it? Flower gardens. All of my neighbours had flower gardens in front of their houses. In the recent years, I’ve seen plenty of new houses being built, plenty of renovations being made. Especially in spring and summer, it is all far from grey. Some major cities started investing in fields of wild flowers, as to aid pollinators. And winters? Well, the way it should be (as climate change shows and I have not seen a proper winter in a while), they should be snowy. Yes, it may involve a rather depressing image, at least in places where snow cannot just rest over the ground and glitter... But I do think it may be the case in plenty parts of Europe, as winter days are overall shorter as well, which hardly helps :”) Eastern Europe as a region is not locked in an eternal winter.

People may not be smiling, but they are not frowning either - it is the... Neutral resting face.

*- that being said, Eastern Europe is not inhabited only by Slavic people, even if it is often presented like so

Common Stereotypes - Professions & Jobs

List of common stereotypical jobs/professions usually performed by characters of Slavic descent:

a member of a mafia (Russian mafia)

a drug dealer

a spy

a prostitute

a maid / a cleaner

As you can see, nearly all of those involve crime, the only exception being a maid / a cleaner (which, I’d argue, speaks of a lower socio-economic status). If you do not plan to have more than one Slavic character in your work, I advise you to avoid those - especially if you wanted to make your character Russian. I do not think I have to explain why representing a group of people nearly exclusively as criminals is hurtful. 

Certain stereotypes exist in media. They do influence the reality. I have seen covers of books about spy programs (non-fiction, referencing an issue from 2000s) which involved clear references to communism (+ used the most hideous Sad Slav Filter I have ever seen). The title suggested all Russians are spies. This is not okay.

If you want to have a character who is performing any of the above, and want to make them Slavic, but then never have their heritage influence anything about them - ask yourself why.

EDIT: Do allow me to also add that being a sex-worker may not be a choice for all Slavic women. Sex-trafficking of Eastern Europeans is a real issue. You should be mindful of that when writing a story - even more so as it affects some countries more than others. Research is due.

Common Stereotypes - Characteristics

Common hurtful characteristics in depicting slavic characters:

uneducated or otherwise stupid

rude, loud, uncultured, violent

an alcoholic / addicted to drugs

extremely conservative / religious

Do I have to explain it? Yes, alcoholism is a social issue, same as addiction to drugs. Yes, some people are conservative and / or religious. However! We are not a monolith! Social issues are not the general rule! 

Scale of conservativeness and religiousness also differs greatly by age group and region. In Poland we have an entire category of practising atheists - non-believers, usually from smaller communities, who appear in church once or twice a year, despite not believing. Due to social pressure. What religion? This differs greatly too! Roman catholic, Greek orthodox, Muslim? Slavic people are not a monolith.

(about women specifically):

beautiful (must put plenty effort in her physical appearance)

looks for a rich (western) husband

submissive

obedient 

Well. This ties into the greater issue of objectification and sexualisation of Slavic and Eastern European women. Admittedly, such portrayal [including all of those] is more so present in online spaces, if you turn a few wrong corners down the roads of the internet :) It is dehumanising.

If your Slavic character happens to be a woman and must be extremely sexy femme fatal spy - this reeks of stereotypes.

Few basic issues with languages & names

As I’ve hinted already, it appears that oftentimes Slavic = Russian. This, however, is not true, both language-wise and culture-wise. Despite sharing some common elements, Slavic cultures do differ. Polish characters, unless they are 50+ years old, won’t generally speak Russian. Czech and Ukrainian are different. Ukrainian is not just another version of Russian.

I decided to single out this paragraph for one reason: authors oftentimes do not bother to check for appropriate names and just use whatever seems right. If you want to write a Slavic character, do make some research. 

The common mess-ups I’ve seen:

inappropriate form of the surname (about Russian surnames in particular; giving a woman a male version of the surname, giving a man the female version of the surname - Slavic languages are heavily gendered!)

claiming a character is of nationality B, while giving them a surname which is most definitely speaking of nationality A (e.g: Polish character with a clearly Hungarian name & surname)

wrong spelling

using very rare forms of names for all the characters written into the story (it sounds very unnatural - in one particular case it seemed to have been done on purpose, as I’ve had to google whether some names were even names. They were used as code names for few organisations during WWII. That sort of uncommon).

nicknames derived from the actual names that would not work at all (Żegota -> Zeg; It just would not work like this. It would be literally more likely for a character named Żegota to be nicknamed/renamed Staszek than for somebody to call him Zeg. It does not only not include the ż sound, but it also ends with g - which a Polish person would simplify to k when speaking. In other words Zeg -> zek. This, meanwhile, is not only not exactly pleasant to say, but it also sounds like a grammatical form of another word, albeit pronounced with a heavy lisp - “river”; It is possible to find appropriate nicknames online).

Also, unless you want for some character to be a dick, do not make them purposefully mispronounce the name of a Slavic character or have them name them after an object/thing. (Calling “Maciej” by “Magic” because they can’t be bothered to learn to pronounce the name or at least try to get it close is not nice).

#lorei spoke #honestly i had to take a couple breaks while writing this #because some of those affected my family living abroad directly and </3 #i was completely not in a mood for any stereotypes today </3