#esp since we see the jedi sitting there going over battle plans and coming up with their own strategies quite often

[antianakin]

There is exactly one criticism that I agree with my, very anti-Jedi, cousin on and that's the Jedi were TERRIBLE Generals. Generals may TRY to make sure their men mostly come back. But useless sacrifices are not only acceptable, but expected, the men are mostly expandable in war. The Jedi did not consider sacrifices like that acceptable or expected. Sure it did happen. It was WAR. But they tried their best to make sure it DIDN'T. The Jedi were terrible Generals. But they were the teachers and Leaders the CLONES NEEDED.

I'm not sure I'd ENTIRELY agree with that. I think I'd be willing to agree that the Jedi were perhaps less CONVENTIONAL Generals, and they definitely do seem to at least TRY to place the lives of their men above just tossing them away for an easy victory, but you can just as easily claim that keeping the men alive to keep fighting is a good strategy in and of itself.

The biggest piece of evidence I'd point to that the Jedi were actually perfectly good Generals is the Citadel arc and Tarkin's criticisms. The one real criticism he makes of the Jedi as military leaders is that they're occasionally too soft and will abandon a mission if it looks impossible to win without near total casualties (on either side). But he's generally fairly positive about the Jedi and if they were truly awful at their jobs, I don't think TARKIN of all people would hold back on saying so, even to the Jedi's faces.

And we DO see the Jedi willing to make sacrifices and accepting that this is a necessary part of war. The Citadel arc is, again, a perfectly good example of this. Obi-Wan and Anakin go in with like 3-4 men each I think and they come back with a grand total of 3 (Rex, Cody, and Fives). A LOT of clones die on this mission that they all KNEW was basically a suicide mission because the Jedi themselves decided that getting the information about the hyperspace lanes was vital enough to the war that it was worth losing multiple lives over (including their own).

So it's not that the Jedi don't understand that sacrifices are necessary in war or even that they avoid it entirely, they just avoid what they see as UNNECESSARY sacrifice for what might amount to a fairly minor victory. Keeping more of their men alive might, in the long run, be a better strategic choice than losing all of them on one campaign, especially if it's over like one uninhabited moon or something like that. There's nothing to say that the losses the Jedi deem acceptable are things that would've changed the entire tide of the war had they chosen to push forward instead.

The other good evidence that the Jedi acting this way would've been the WORSE choice is the Umbara arc. We are told and then see that Krell IS the kind of General who is willing to lose a lot of clones in order to gain victories in battle, and the clones do recognize that he has a lot of victories under his belt. But never once do they discuss whether those victories really MEANT anything or had a large impact on the war effort. It certainly never seems that the Republic is majorly pushing back the Separatists because of Krell's victories, nobody ever mentions that Krell gained them a major advantage with those victories or took out anyone of any consequence on the Separatist side with his strategies. And by the time he gets to Umbara, he's explicitly using this strategy to WEAKEN the Republic side and cause a loss. Several of his strategies WOULD'VE meant the Republic lost on Umbara and it's only the clones utilizing different strategies that put fewer of them at risk that they actually end up continuing to HAVE victories at all.

I'll also point out that the Jedi continuously getting their men killed en masse would've bankrupted the Republic a LOT earlier because they'd have to be paying for more clones a LOT more often than they did in canon and I can't imagine anyone would've considered that a particularly sound strategy and at some point I'm sure the Senate would've felt obligated to put a stop to it anyway and insisted on strategies that kept more clones alive for longer. So I'm not sure it's fair to claim the Jedi were utilizing BAD strategy by not just exclusively using tactics that meant most of their men were killed for every single victory.

So the ONLY criticism we EVER see of the Jedi's ability as military leaders is Tarkin claiming they're "too soft" and Tarkin is the kind of person who would likely say that until the Jedi started carpet bombing entire Separatist planets. Would it give them a victory? Yeah, sure, maybe, but that's the exact same strategy the Separatists are using and look how well that works out for THEM. Everything else we ever see seems to showcase that the Jedi are in fact perfectly good Generals, not just in that they're kind to the clones and are unwilling to carpet bomb Separatist planets, but also because they're just... good at this. They CAN be strategic, they CAN run wars if they want to. And I think that's the whole point of the Jedi in some ways is that yes, they CAN make war when they need to, they just actively choose NOT TO every time they can. THIS is why Qui-Gon tells Padme that he and Obi-Wan are there to protect her but that they can't win this war for her and they end up going off to fight off a Sith while Padme has to actually win the war with her own people and the Gungans instead. The Jedi don't WANT to be in the position of doing nothing but fighting, but they're absolutely capable of this kind of work.

That's the tragedy of the war in some ways, the Jedi ARE good at this no matter how much they wish they weren't sometimes. But being good at it means they can actually protect the Republic, their own men, and even the Separatist civilians better, so they're not going to just sit there and do things that will screw over a bunch of people. Yes, they're going to fight the war in such a way that they reduce casualties as much as possible, but reducing casualties also requires doing enough to not LOSE the damn war, too. It's a delicate balance they're trying to hold on to and I'd argue they manage it better than anybody else would've ever done in their position.

#star wars #jedi #pro jedi #clones #clone troopers #the clone wars #listen i am not a strategist #i CERTAINLY am not a military strategist #but just looking at what we're shown and told by tcw and the films i think it's fairly the clear the jedi were GOOD at being generals #regardless of whether they LIKED that or not #yes they wanted to protect the clones but they weren't idiots and they clearly weren't causing the republic to lose all the time either #there's a difference between strategically retreating from battles that can only be won by massive casualties with little to no reward #and prioritizing saving the clones OVER necessary victories in the war #the jedi are doing the former to my perspective #if they weren't i think the republic would've been a lot worse off just in general #unless we're about to start claiming that the clones and/or civilian officers were doing all of the real work instead of the jedi #which i personally would not #esp since we see the jedi sitting there going over battle plans and coming up with their own strategies quite often #tarkin's opinion on the matter is suspect - don't take his word for it when he says the jedi are too soft

[itdisneymatter]

Day 15 - Hollywood Studios

TLDR: Longest park day yet and one of the best. Met loads of characters. Took loads of photos. Kids became Jedi’s and battled against the formidable Darth Vader. Hit the shows we missed first time around and returned to favourites. The day had a definite Star Wars thread and ended with a huge Star Wars Pyrotechnics & Light show. Amazing day and Hollywood has most certainly been done for another trip.

Hollywood Studios. Our plan of action today was to retry Jedi Academy as we missed it last time and also do all of the extra things in the park like the Star Wars shows, Character autographs, photos and Fireworks. That meant a full 09:00-22:00 day shot at the park (weather permitting). Once we got through the gates, me and the kids once again went straight to register for Jedi Academy aaaand there was NO queue! It might just turn out to be a quieter day here in the park :) The kids were booked in by Becky who was from Falkirk! Small world. We had an early afternoon return time so hopefully in before the weather starts to turn as it was forecast to.

As it was REALLY quiet we walked straight on to Star Tours (even though we had a FP for it later in the day). I was identified as the rebel spy this time - WOOT! (though with a my favourite Disney Princess is Princess Leia it was kind of a dead giveaway). Same planets as before but we had Yoda instead of BB8 this time. And I survived! :P

After that we met Olaf for a quick photo op (no Anna or Elsa though :( ) and then a quick coffee stop and on to the Star Wars Launch Bay to meet several Star Wars characters too. Now Grace brought along Furbacca today with the sole purpose of introducing him to Chewbacca. And when he met him, was he confused - LOL - but he played along brilliantly, and Grace was absolutely tickled at his reaction. In fact Furbacca was a huge hit with a lot of the cast memebers through out the day, the only problem is he doesnt shut up, he constantly RWARRRs and sings Star Wars tunes all day. We got lots of photos of just the kids and the whole family - the staff are so accomodating and even though theres a queue they dont ever rush you out the door - just sums up the whole experience of Disney to be honest. Next up was Kylo Ren, and his sounds and mannerisms were spot on. Grace didnt really know where to look and she kept Furbacca hidden behind her back just in case. Then finally on to BB8 another one of Gracie's favs. The launch bay also had a lot of props and memorabilia so its a great experience for any Star Wars enthusiast.

May the force be with you!

We then headed off for our reservation for the Jedi Academy: Trials of the Temple. A short introduction followed by them donning their robes and marching their way through the park to the temple a little way away. And Patrick, Robert & Grace were in Team Chewie! A wee story develops where some Jedi masters arrive and take the through some training with light-sabres. And they the time came when the three of them faced off against Darth Vader and some other Darth Vader-chick. It was a tough battle and all three fought bravely and pushed back the dark forces of the temple. Kylo Ren also made an appearance to conclude the story. It seemed much more immersive than last time I seen the show and the kids loved it! Lots of pics taken by both ourselves and the Disney Photographers (and all of their photos are added to your memory maker too, which is sweet).

Reach for the sky!

Toy Story Fast Pass up next, and after my defeat at the  hands of my eldest on Men In Black the other day, I felt I had to redeem myself. That being said, Patrick asked for some hints and tips on this one too, which I did give him (albeit reluctantly).   Competition was fierce, esp from the missus, but I managed to scrape by.

Gerry: 162800

Ann: 141400

Robert: 114700

Patrick: 93200

Gracie: 49900

Patrick kinda waned on the Fun Fact Of The Day today but as its kinda related I gave him a pass. Here it is...

So many people started shouting 'Andy's coming' to the Toy Story characters that it had to be stopped for safety reasons. Now when people shout it, the cast members reply 'He's in College!'

Anyway, I celebrated my win with a wee double espresso, my first this holiday surprisingly - I think Ive had my fill of cold brews for a little bit. Next, we had our first of two regular Star Wars shows: March Of The First Order. Here, Captain Phasma leads a bunch of First Order troopers through the park in precise military fashion. Pretty cool and brings in the Force Awakens lore, which they seem to lean on heavily in the park at the moment (there are now 5 new Star Wars shows and attractions from two years ago). Fun Fact from myself, Captain Phasma is played by Gwendoline Christie aka Brienne of Tarth from Game Of Thrones which will shortly be starting back (one of the few things I’m looking forward to going back home for). HYPEEEEEE! Ahem. we headed over to the Great Movie ride after the show was finished. We didn’t get on this one last week, so was looking forward to it as was Patrick (though Grace was a little more reluctant as we hadn't really done any rides other than Star Tour so far). Nice wee trip through some memorable movie scenes, which included some live action sequences by cast members and ended in a nice compilation of movies over the last 70 years or so. After which  Patrick expressed an interest in watching older, classic movies when he got back home and I had to agree.

Our next attraction was a second Star Wars show, which wasn’t due to start for a while yet so we went to browse some shops (we didn’t have time to do anything else in the time). I decided to pop back down to Tower of Terror gift shop to see if there was some further Jasmine Beckett-Griffith art (where I picked it up from originally) and bought a Rey & BB-8 print. The cashier Noelle (probably noticing my t-shirt), gave me some insider info about the artist including that she was actually from Florida and pointed me in the direction of some further Star Wars prints only available in Disney Springs. Awesome! :)

We got into a good position for the Star Wars: A Galaxy far far away show which was a compilation of Star Wars clips with appearances from some major characters (and droids) at specific intervals. We seen another appearance from Kylo, Chewie and BB-8 as well as Boba Fett, R2 and Threepio and a bunch of others.

Who’s the leader of the club that’s made for you and me?

We then went to meet Mickey and Minnie! Something you absolutely must have to do when you visit here. After about a 30 minute wait (which was longer than the others for obvious reasons), we got to meet Minnie Mouse. She gave all the kids a big hug, signed their Autograph book and posed for photos with all of us. Then it was on to Mickey, and not just any Mickey - it was Sorcerer's Apprentice Mickey - one of Patrick’s absolute favourites and he went crazy when he found out. He also welcomed them with open arms and was really attentive will also of them, to the point Robert got a little emotional about the whole thing (to be fair they had been on the go for 7 hrs with little breaks and intense heat). Amazing experience for them and that particular one really made the day.

WE ARE GROOT!

Keeping in with the order of the day, we then headed off to meet Groot & Star Lord from Guardians. We didn’t know what Groot it would be but I think we all secretly hoped it would be Baby Groot, even though it would be pretty difficult to do a meet & greet with a one foot plant. We turned the corner to the set after queuing for a little and it WAS Baby Groot! He was sitting on a console with a cable, and had a pretty convincing actor playing Star Lord alongside him. He interacted really well with the kids and even told Grace The Collector was on the look out for her Furbacca (which she had in her hand ready to meet the two). It must more that a little demanding when your having to spontaneously interact with someone as a talking character as opposed to someone who puts on a suit so kudos to this dude (and no offence intended to the other costume characters).

Fortune and Glory, Kid!

Patrick wanted to go back to see Indy again (being an avid fan), so we decided to skip dinner for yet another hour to go catch the last show of the day. We arrived early enough to get one of the first rows and when it came time for the show to start and them to look for volunteers to participate in the how the kids and Ann put up their hand for me. Unfortunately I didn't get picked - kids were gutted and ummm so was I ;) Having photographed the last show I just wanted to get a few extra pics of the golden idol/boulder sequence (due to the better vantage point) and then I got to put my camera away to watch the show properly. Unfortunately a thunderstorm was heading our way so they had to cut the last scene much to the disappointment of the kids (and especially Grace when I told her this was the last day at Hollywood Studios). Luckily the storm didn't come to anything. When exiting Indy, Patrick decided that now would be a good time to redeem his birthday present in the form of an authentic leather Indiana Jones hat and satchel. 120 bucks for both but after thinking about it since last time we were here, it was what he really wanted and the hat looked cool AF!

And then FINALLY we ate! We picked up some sandwich meals at Backlot Express, which seems to be somewhat of an unspoken favourite in years gone by and the food was really good, even if it was just burger and fries. Grace also got a awesome looking  BB-8 cup (as she was no longer able to get another Orange Bird cup). After dinner, we decided to head back to the car to drop off some baggage and merchandise we'd picked up. And then Gracie fell. At first I thought it was nothing as she didn't make a noise (usually she's quite vocal about these kind of things), but after picking her up she seems to have damaged her elbow and knee (which was bleeding)  quite bad. Headed off to first aid who patched up her knee and gave her an bandage and ice pack for her elbow. As she couldn't really put any pressure on her knee, we had to get her a wheelchair to run her about the rest of the park for the remainder of the evening. And she was absolutely amazing about it all, not crying or complaining, so much so that we bought her some pins that she was wanting for being so brave.

Fire and Light!

As night was falling, it was time for the first of the two evening shows: Movie Magic! This was a light show cast on a huge building at the back of the park. It showcased a number of movies, including Pirates and Guardians (where  we seen Baby Groot again, in a HUGE digital projection this time). It was very impressive.

Shortly after that it was the finale performance for the evening and the one we were all waiting for Star Wars: A Galactic Spectacular! An epic fireworks and light show, all centered around different aspects of Star Wars. Lot of explosions and lasers tied in with a compilation of iconic Star Wars scenes and awesome fireworks. No characters this time, but it still had impact, especially the Leia scenes. A spectacular end to one of the best days we've had yet. Just under 13 hrs and 1350 photos later, not including a whole host of Memory maker ones, and Hollywood Studios was done for another trip.