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luxshine · 3 years

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Hello. I came across your post about Good Omens. Could you please explain to me what the drama is about? I watched S1 but I’m not really in the fandom. I’m in the Spn fandom and lot of them are also fans of GO, and I saw some negativity about the creator of the show and also something about Michael Sheen a while back? Thanks 🙏🏻

Sure. I will be a bit vague and not mention the living author's name because I seriously don't want the uberfans to find my post (and the man is on tumblr so...). Also, I haven't seen nor read Good Omens because a) I am not a fan of the living author and b) I have been working on my angel's webcomic since 2001, and I didn't want anyone to claim I was copying him. So I can't really talk about IF the content is really a closed ending or not. My knowledge comes exclusively from OUTSIDE the story itself.

Basically it boils down to this: when Sir Terry Pratchett died, the other author, who liked to call himself Sir Terry's best friend, said that there would be no more GO EVER because without Sir Terry there was no Good Omens. It is worth to note that, BEFORE Sir Terry's untimely and tragic death, both authors HAD said that the story was done, and while they loved the characters, there was not much more to be said. The Other Author presented himself in every possible media as missing his friend dearly, and that yes, Good Omens was done for.

Fast forward to the miniseries, where the Other Writer kept insisting that it was all how Sir Terry would've wanted it, that he was being protective of Sir Terry's wishes. WHICH at that point, he INSISTED, didn't include a sequel. Despite fans begging him to write more, he refused as "No more GO without Sir Terry".

HOWEVER, now he is changing the narrative to claim that "They ALWAYS" planned a second part, only that time made it impossible to write. That he had notes. That he of course had Sir Terry's blessing. That this IS what Sir Terry would've wanted. And the fans (and, granted, this particular anti-fan) who REMEMBER his original statements are royally pissed because not only he is trying (and getting away with) to gaslight the fandom, but also, it's pretty obvious this was completely for the money. AFTER a different kerfuffle where he insisted that the reason why Death is going to be Black in Netflix's Sandman is because he is a good ally of minorities (Despite claiming, for example, that the US doesn't have interesting graveyards because the old ones are "just a bunch of dead indians". As I said... I have ISSUES with the Other Writer). But because OTHER fans really want to have more of their angel and demon pair (and are being not-so subtly told that this time their romance will be canon, which, if it is NOT the case, is textbook queerbaiting), well, they forgive the Other Writer and let him get away with murder. (And seriously, the Other Writer gave/gives money to Scientology. THAT alone is enough in my books to not want to give HIM money)

Regarding Mr. Sheen? I have no idea why would the fandom hate him. Well, except for the J1 Stans because He LIKES Misha, has cosplayed as Castiel, did a wonderful t-shirt and promo with Misha coining the crossover term "Super Good", and well, J1 stans hate anyone who has ever said a kind word about Misha Collins up and including Jensen.

#discourse

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thenightling · 4 years

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Why I do NOT think Over The Garden Wall’s ending is secretly sad

Recently I came across a comment from someone who believes Over The Garden Wall actually has a sad ending and Greg and Wirt and doomed, that the ending is false because of the lyric “Loveliest ...lies of all.” I have to admit I was initially worried about this being potentially true too. But then I remembered a few things that reassured me. A few things made me certain the end is not false.

1. The phrase “Loveliest... lies of all”: At first this worried me too that the frog was giving a wink-wink / nudge-nudge that this wasn’t really how it ended but how the boys would have wanted it to end but then I realized something. He actually sings "Loveliest lies of all" at the start of the first episode too. So if the end is a lie so is the whole thing. So this makes the concern moot, doesn’t it?

2. “What is a story but a lie?”: Some people call fictional stories "lies" and The Unknown is a land of stories. A similar reasoning is how Marvel evolved Loki from God of lies to God of Stories in the comics.

3. The Over The Garden Wall comics are supposed to be canon: The Over The Garden Wall comics (from the same writer) indicate all the stories ended the way the afterward claimed.

4. The end scene is supposed to show how the boys touched the lives of those in The Unknown: We have been told that the ending is supposed to show how the boys impacted the lives of those in The Unknown. Why do that if only that one part is a lie?

5. It was all real on some level: The Bell still being in the frog’s stomach indicate that the adventure was at least partly true.

6. The opening and closing bookends: There are things tied together that the boys would not have known in order to imagine the happy endings for the lives they touched. For example, the fact that the gristmill (now mostly repaired) was owned by Beatrice’s family and the dog from the first episode was hers. The boys didn’t know Beatrice had a dog. The boys also didn’t know what the woodsman’s daughter looked like. We only saw her in the preview segment of the first episode. And Lorna’s ending was the most probable since Auntie Whispers turned out to be a fairly nice person (even if she didn’t think of the obvious way to get rid of the spirit). There’s a preview (in the opening segment of the first episode) that ties directly to the ending and the boys wouldn’t have been aware of either.

7. A sad conclusion doesn’t match the rest of the mini-series: All of Greg and Wirt's adventures ended mostly happily already (”O Potatoes and Molasses: The school is saved via fund raiser and the gorilla was Jimmy Brown all along,” the frog choosing his human companions over fame and fortune, the Potsfield folk just letting them go after their two friends were dug up, Adalade defeated, Lorna de-possessed and deciding Auntie Whispers is her family after all for loving her and looking after her through the ordeal, And the crazy old tea seller (who might actually be the ghost) finding love with his business competitor. So there's no real reason the ending should be false considering how far fetched the previously established stories played out.

8. Purgatory isn’t a bad place by its original definition: Yes, I’m aware that there’s a high chance the boys are in purgatory, or some place between realms. There’s also a chance they are in The Dreaming (realm of dreams and stories) or a combo of the two. But purgatory is not necessarily a bad place and you sometimes CAN return to the land of the living from purgatory. It’s not like the Dante’s Inferno video game or Divine Comedy (which is Bible fan fiction, by the way). Even if Dante’s Divine Comedy did influence Over The Garden Wall so did Goethe’s Faust (part 2 of which had a sweet ending) and a bunch of other classic stories. And purgatory is supposed to be a place between here and it is indicated that it is where forgotten stories (folktales / faery tales) must play out. And most of those were designed to have happy endings.

9. The references and homages don’t fit a bleak ending: Yes, some old Grimm Faery tales have very dark endings but the raw blue print for Over The Garden Wall comes from American folktales, vintage New England post cards, and 1920s to 1940 cartoons, which usually were whimsical and had happy outcomes. You can see the likes of Betty Boop, The Wizard of Oz, and even Shirley Temple’s Animal Crackers in my Soup in loving homage.

10. Tome of the Unknown: They were helping forgotten stories reach their conclusion. That’s why the original working title was “Tome of the Unknown.” (Which Lorna is reading in her final scene, by the way.) The fact that Lorna is reading the Tome of the Unknown (the book of stories the Unknown characters are supposed to be from) suggests that the boys actually helped these characters play out their stories like faery tale characters in an Enchanted Forest.

11. A sad ending doesn’t really match the established tone. They were mostly sweet forgotten stories and folktales too from the looks of it. If Beatrice was turned into a bird by a bird for throwing a rock why is it so hard for us to accept a witch’s scissors could turn her back? I was worried the scissors would actually mutilate her too but I think we’re just too used to that sort of thing today. Older stories were not so cynical which brings me to point 11.

12. Projecting cynicism and dark expectations: I saw similar projected darkness with some people watching The Shape of Water and thinking the end was wishful thinking even though we had already seen “The Asset” use healing powers. And Guillermo del Toro said it has a happy ending. The Rugrats aren’t dead and Angelica is not just imagining them either. Sometimes things actually just are wholesome. They don’t need to be edgy.

13. I’m aware of what was considered early in the production: Just because an author considered making something darker than what was made doesn’t mean the finished product is darker too. People also like to bring up that in the “original“ Peter Pan the boy was a villain and did awful things but that is not the version that became a beloved play and children’s book. That was essentially a prototype version that no one cared for.

14. Sequel?: Though it’s not likely the show’s creator (Patrick McHale) will do it, there were sequel considerations for Over The Garden Wall, which would require those stories to have ended the way we saw them.

15. “If Dreams can’t come true then why not pretend?” I’ve heard this lyric used to try to claim the ending is false but one could argue that all of the stories the boys encounter in Over The Garden Wall are dreams. And what is the sure way to make a dream become real? “Fake it until you make it.” In other words... Pretend. So the boys may have turned those stories (including their endings) real. Pretending and belief. Believing something strongly enough that is how you make an ideal real.

To quote Death in the novel Hogfather by Terry Pratchett.: “ THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET”—Death waved a hand. “AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.” "Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point—" MY POINT EXACTLY.” He goes on to say people need to believe in these things in order for them to “Become.”

This is how you make concepts real, through pretending and creating belief in the idea.

So in a sense what he’s really saying here can be seen as “Make it real.”

#Over the Garden Wall #OTGW

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meridianrose · 6 years

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Day 9: Rec 3 or more fanworks you've created (many recs below) Day 10: Share your love for a trope, cliché, kink, motif, or theme (h/c and more) Day 11: Share something media related that changed your life Day 12: Create a fanwork (icon)

Day 9 In your own space, post a rec for at least three fanworks that you have created. It can be your favorite fanworks that you've created, or fanworks you feel no one ever saw, or fanworks you say would define you as a creator. I usually go with my longest to date work, a Da Vinci's modern au Weather Every Storm I'm really proud of it and the relationship issues I dealt with in it and the depth of detail (I tend to write more dialogue than description) I managed, really pleased with the sfbb art I received for it, really pleased by the comments I've had on it. "London, present day. Leo and Riario were in a tempestuous but passionate relationship until they recently broke up. Leo, believing they'll get back together, is stunned when he gets a call saying Riario has attempted suicide. Desperate to win back the love of his life, Leo will go to any length to bring Riario home and repair their relationship." The regency AU Revenge fic Compassion and Conjugality; it's sort of a sequel to a previous historical au but it stands alone. "Facing execution for sodomy, Nolan is saved when Emily declares him to be her fiancé. Despite her affection for Aiden, she decides to wed Nolan to further her own agenda; Nolan's only regret is that it will not be a real marriage." My fic series Everything's Better With Dragons, The Borgias fantasy au. "In a world where magic is real but witchcraft is banned, the Borgia family face the threat of the supernatural as well as more mundane enemies. A witch secretly resides within the House of Borgia, while a spell gone awry gives the family control of a dragon. " Three works so far, I had planned on more but the series finished and I had issues with the next fic, but I do hope to one day write the rest. I'm also proud of my Black Sails big bang, modern medical drama au, Bad Case of Loving You, my GoT fic au series It's Snowing Men where Jamie and Tyrion join Jon Snow at the Wall, my DvD pre-canon au Through All Hardship We Endeavour (Riario x Lucrezia), and my unconventionalcourtship Black Sails regency au Unconventional Countess which let me explore a nonsexual but deeply committed partnership between Silver and Max. Historical AUs, canon AUs, fantasy, h/c, nonsexual intimacy are probably key components of my work :) Fanfic is my go to but I do dabble in graphics and even fanvids; my youtube channel is RosettaGray and I have some Da Vinci's Demons vids there – of the four this is probably my favourite along with a crack CSI: Rome(if the Borgias were a crime show) and a Francois Arnaud/Morrocan Gigolos movie fanvid. But I am a very amateur vidder! Day 10 In your own space, share your love for a trope, cliché, kink, motif, or theme. (Or a few!) Tell us what makes it work for you, and why it appeals to you so much. Talk about what you like to see in fanworks featuring that theme most. Feel free to include recs and examples! Hurt/Comfort has always been my go to for reading and writing. I could wax lyrical about why but it's my jam and always will be. On tumblr it seems to be tagged more as "whump" and I've found more gifsets and fic recs that way :) Hair kink – give me all the long haired men! Talk about hair washing and brushing, let fingers run through tousled locks! Bed sharing – I just love this idea of intimacy and it's related to… Nonsexual intimacy – I'm asexual and I adore nonsexual intimacies in fic. Hand kissing, showering, the aforementioned bed sharing and hair brushing. There's a particular kink I've tried exploring more and which I read more of but in private and I'm still not brave enough to come out and say it outright yet, though my love of h/c is always front and centre, unashamedly so. Day 11 Share a book/song/movie/tv show/fanwork/etc that changed your life. A few key moments. I think Star Trek: The Next Generation was the first fandom I wrote in, though in a notebook and never to be shared (this was a time long ago before the internet!) Quantum Leap and Babylon 5 I participated in by reading fanzines but I never wrote fic, but that was a new experience for me in terms of fandom. Brimstone is one of the earliest oneline fandoms I wrote fic for, via yahoo groups! Legend of the Seeker; I felt very connected to fans here especially in the community dedicated to the Rahl family. I've written more fic in this fandom than any other. Discworld; I came later to the series but Pratchett's work has been a touchstone ever since. Whedon; I know there's now much (warranted) criticism of the man and his newer works, but Buffy and Firefly made lasting impressions on me. CSI: I read a lot of forensic books when watching early seasons of CSI. Fandom often leads me to gain knowledge in areas it has piqued my interest in. Day 12 In your own space, create a fanwork. Make a podfic, an icon, a sketch, a meta, or a rec list. Arts and crafts. Cross stitch. Draft an essay about a particular medium. Put together a picspam or a fanmix. Write a review of book you love, a ship manifesto, a you-should-be-listening-to-this-band essay. Create something. I posted fic just two days ago Men of Vision and Ambition, I've got a draft fanfic WiP, plus I have original fic I work on these days. I also reviewed 3 books (1 great, 1 good, 1 awful) on tumblr yesterday, and I've got gameofcards to make things for soon enough ;) Just in case none of that counts (and of course they count, it's Snowflake Challenge!) I made an icon for the tv series (based on the books) Strike

#black sails #da vinci's demons #strike #brimstone #h/c #bed sharing #hair kink #nonsexual intimacy #silvermax #LotS #other fandoms mentioned #shameless self promotion #vid recs #fic recs #snowflakechallenge2018

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