#bxg perpectives

[rainbowsky]

I am a straight turtle and it makes me sad to see toxic straight antis bashing WY and XZ. I think that has to do with their narcissistic cancerous personality and desire to ''own'' a celebrity and not with their sexual orientation. I would support them if they were asexual, pansexual, trans, bi or gay. I don't fantasize about dating them or objectify them. please know that not all straight fans are the same. I support the right to love whoever someone wants.

Hi Anon.

[ CW/TW talk about homophobia and homophobic violence ]

I don't think that people behave that way because they're straight, they behave that way because they are heteronormative and homophobic. That tends to skew toward straight people, but not because of who they love, rather because they have no concept of queerness in their lives and therefore no empathy for queer people.

That also comes with ignorance about what it means to be queer. Too often people think - because this is what's taught in our society - that queerness is about lust and perversion and promiscuity. They can't get their head around the idea that we are just like them, loving the people we love, wanting nothing more than to just be left to love and live in peace.

It's not helped at all by the way a lot of turtles talk about GGDD. The constant oversexualizing. The organizing of an entire fandom around top-bottom dynamics. Sometimes I can sort of see where some of the solos are coming from when they speak so hatefully about turtles.

If GG and DD had just been a fake CP for promo purposes, none of this would have mattered all that much. But the fact that they are real people in a real relationship - that just makes this so awful beyond words. It's incredibly creepy and homophobic for people to go to war over - let's be really clear about this - which one of these real human beings they think sticks their dick in the other.

Maybe someone can answer me this question because I can't imagine the oversexualizing is happening in straight CPs. Not nearly to the degree that it does with GGDD. But is this a fixture of all CPs, or just gay ones? I have a hard time imagining that Dilraba and Yang Yang CP fans are making posts focusing around the sex they think they're having. Not the kinds of posts they're making about GGDD.

I mean, GG grabs an endorsement for bedding, and DD endorses a detergent, and there are all these people online tittering about how 'handy' that is for them given their 'likely activities' when they are together. WTF people.

This really tweaks something inside me, as a queer person.

People might not realize, but it's exactly this type of oversexualizing of queer relationships that facilitates and even underpins a lot of the oppression and hate we experience. We are treated as debauched and uncouth and inherently perverse and obscene, and that has direct implications for how we are treated every day.

When a guy goes to his parents and says, "I love men. I have a boyfriend and we plan to get married," a lot of the horror that many parents feel comes directly from the thought that their kid is a pervert. Because queer relationships aren't treated as inherently romantic and sacred like straight ones are, they are treated as inherently sexual and perverse.

Why don't we talk about the AIDS crisis that killed hundreds of thousands of gay men in the 80's and 90s? Were you around during that time? Old enough to understand what was happening? Society let thousands of people die, and treated them monstrously in the process, because of the sexualization of the entire thing in people's minds. The world didn't approach this as a medical crisis, they approached it as a sexual, moral one.

The lengths that queer people had to go to in order to be seen as human beings by society at large, were extreme. They ended up bringing actual corpses of people who had died from AIDS, in open caskets to protest rallies. I mean, imagine this happening with COVID. Imagine people having to bring the ashes of loved ones to scatter on the White House lawn in order to get their voices heard and in order to inspire an appropriate response. This is what AIDS activists had to resort to.

How people think and talk about queer people - about anyone for that matter - has real implications for how those groups end up being treated. How people think and talk about targeted groups is usually a reflection of the value they are given by those people and by the world at large.

When I hear people saying homophobic things about a queer celebrity, those comments don't just land as hate speech against that celeb, they land as hate speech against me as well. Because those messages aren't just attacking that individual, they are attacking queerness as a class of people.

So if I get ranty about some of this stuff, I hope people can understand why this stuff matters, and the ways in which it all creates a climate and an environment that is unpleasant for queer people, and helps reinforce and perpetuate some very harmful ideas and behaviors aimed at queer people. And I hope people can understand why it's frankly triggering sometimes to hear people oversexualizing a real life gay couple to this degree.

It feels hostile at times, the constant barrage of sneering offhand remarks, comments about them 'walking funny' the day after they get together (such homophobic BS), interpreting every single thing they say or do as being somehow connected to sex, and then arguing over who they think is the top or bottom.

Every single visibly queer person has had these kinds of comments leveled at them in their daily lives. Depending on where someone grows up, these kinds of comments and ideas might have been a soundtrack playing in the background of every hateful, painful beating or traumatic encounter they had with people hostile to their existence.

And while we shouldn't necessarily be expected to conduct ourselves based on how one or two people with particular sensitivities might be affected, we should definitely consider how our words might land on others. We should definitely consider where our ideas come from and what they say about our attitudes, and about the sociopolitical realities around us. We should think about what we are reinforcing and helping to perpetuate with our attitudes and behavior.

And I would argue that when it comes to queer people, it's not just 'one or two people with particular sensitivities', in fact I'd argue that most queer people will experience a lot of this stuff as homophobic, hurtful and alienating. Many of us have been mercilessly bullied, sexualized and sneered at through our entire lives. These things are a continuation of all of that. They reflect the roots of all of that.

I know I'm not the 'target market' here. I am well aware that most of the fandom are women, many of them straight or else sexually inexperienced, and that it's inevitable that my comfort zone is going to be different from theirs, but god, how can anyone expect all this to be anything other than hostile for queer people, particularly queer men?

It's not solos who are creating this environment, it's turtles. So before we get too excited about what solos are up to, we should think about what's happening in our own backyards.

People don't think they're being homophobic, because they don't understand what homophobia really is. They think it's overt, monstrous hate. They think it's fear. It's so much more than that - it's dehumanization. It's 'othering'. It's objectification.

And oversexualization... that's among the biggest and most serious acts of homophobia. One of the most damaging. It is at the very rotten root of some of the worst oppression and hate in existence. It's why parents don't want their kids to be gay. It's why people fear hiring queer people, or having them live in their apartment building. it's why they don't want their kids going to school with queer people.

A little empathy goes a long way. A little respect goes a long way. A little restraint and self-reflection goes a long way.

#lgbtpride #i'll take homophobia for 800 alex! #fandom reflections #bxg perpectives #ask

[rainbowsky]

Do we really need to always look back to CQL everytime we talk about Web & XZ? CQL is an old news. We have more interesting and much better contents now. Why bother to always go back to it?

Web has Louyang to look forward to. It looks great. The costumes, the visual, the detective-libe story looks so promising Let's not forget Being A Hero, a very challenging role for him. And of course SDOC4 where we can see Web looks so relax and happy aside from DDU.

XZ has Oath of Love and The Longest Promise to look forward to. These two are FAR FAR SUPERIOR and more recognized literature works than CQL. Read the novels and you'll see how amazing the romance in these 2 are. Easily the best romance stories (perfect) for XZ. Then ADLD which shows his amazing range as an actor. Very challenging since it's a stage play with a very long running time. We still have Ace of Troops too which we have no news about it.

Do we really need to go back when they themselves have move on? We need to move on too.

It's funny, I was just saying a lot of similar things to someone earlier today.

Although I'm not convinced that the novel of OOL is so much better than MDZS. Tastes are pretty subjective and it's hard to make claims like that in such a broad way. I've heard very mixed reviews of the book OOL is based on. A lot of people describe it as a very het, very cheezy melodramatic story. True, that sort of thing has a broad appeal, but I'm not the target market.

I haven't heard much about the story The Longest Promise is based on, but the same applies. These things are a matter of personal taste.

Having said that, I'm really looking forward to all of their new dramas and projects, and while I will likely skip some of the overtly propagandistic ones, I can't wait to see them perform in other roles. OOL is near the top of that list for me. I can't wait to see GG in that role.

To me, The Untamed is great not only because of GGDD, but also because it's just an excellent, excellent drama with an outstanding cast. I've watched it, in its entirety, 4 or 5 times, plus I watched the Special Edition (which I did not enjoy as much - it felt hacked apart). I am a fan of the show, make no mistake about it. I even own the official photo book. I know I will watch it again. I love the show.

But when it comes to fandom about the show - all the meta and gifs and fanart and discussions and, to a lesser degree, the BTS - my eyes glaze over a bit, I can't lie. I feel like I've seen it all before a thousand times - the fandom is oversaturated with all of this - and I'm just more interested in what GG and DD are up to now. They both have exciting things happening in the here and now.

The Untamed will always be special to GG and DD, and to BXG. I mean, that's a given. It's where all of this started for a lot of people, it's where GGDD had a chance to work together. It's a great show, and they both gave outstanding performances. It launched both of their careers into the stratosphere - no one can deny it (although some solos certainly try). As queer actors, this might very well be the only queer role they ever get a chance to play.

But it's also been 2 years since it aired. In the world of entertainment, 2 years might as well be 2 decades, and that's only a slight exaggeration. It's old news for a lot of people who saw it around the time it originally aired.

Of course, there are always new people discovering it and new people coming to the fandom, so there will always be turtles in particular for whom all of this is brand new and exciting. We are probably always going to see people bringing it up as though it's new. Because it's new for them.

I hope we can all try to empathize with their enthusiasm and try not to put too much of a damper on it. I do my best in this regard. I'm still happy to take asks about the show and the BTS (although my memory of some of those things is going to be rusty).

At the same time, I hope turtles - old or new - will at least try to branch out and experience some of the other material GG and DD have created, and try to support 'the whole, individual man' and not just the relationship between GGDD. There's a lot of content out there. If you can't find it in your region try some of the unofficial sites like Dramacool.

If you haven't seen The Wolf yet, you're missing out. If you haven't been watching SDOC, you're missing out. etc. etc.

However, as I've said many times - everyone gets to be a fan in whatever way works for them. If The Untamed is new for you and you want to enjoy it, enjoy! If it's old to you but you're still attached and don't want to move on from it, enjoy! If it's the only thing that interests you about GGDD, enjoy!

But please recognize as turtles that GG and DD will be moving forward in their careers, and they will talk about/feature the show less and less in their posts over time. They will emphasize new content and move on from The Untamed, at least in terms of what they highlight in interviews and social media. This isn't a 'suppression of the show', it's just time marching forward.

Recognize that a lot of the fans will be moving forward as well. There will inevitably be some people who are sick of talking about it, who find it old news, or who are more interested in other things. This isn't a 'conspiracy of silence', it's just time marching forward.

Don't let yourself feel threatened by any of that and behave in ways that disrupt the fandom when the show isn't highlighted in the way you expect it to be. Don't make up scary stories in your mind about what you fear might be 'the real' motive behind this. The simple truth is, not everything about them is going to be about that show, and that will only become more true as time marches forward.

And that applies both ways. Like I said, I hope those of us who have mostly moved on will try to be empathetic to those for whom the show is new. I hope we can all try to respect each other's approaches and not be warlike about it.

In the end, we all just love these two fools, and if we focus on what we have in common we might find any friction melts away.

Important note

Please don't take this as an invitation to hit up my inbox with anti-BXG hate, messages denigrating The Untamed or BXG, etc. etc. Anyone sending me such garbage will be insta-blocked. If you are anti-BXG and hate The Untamed, please don't follow my blog or engage with my inbox. Stay in your own lane.

#the untamed #fandom reflections #bxg perpectives #ask

[rainbowsky]

I had a dream last night that I wanted to share because it was hilarious and I thought you would like it! In it, somehow I was dating GG, which I realized because I was watching him on TV eat the lunch I had made him. The lunch was 2 cucumbers and a literal box of cereal, and all the fans were upset that this was his lunch and I was SO EMBARRASSED I hadn't made something better. And then after he ate the lunch he went and hung out with DD (still on TV) and I was FREAKING OUT because they were majorly flirting and I was so happy and excited for this historic moment. But then I remembered that I was dating GG and I got really worried that he would feel like he couldn't be with DD because of me (lol), but I couldn't contact him because he was on TV! When I woke up I was so happy to remember that GG and DD are a couple and that I did not actually feed GG cucumbers and cereal :)

LOL Anon, you really are a good turtle, not wanting to stand between GG and DD. 😅

Thanks for that hilarious story. Sleep well!

#ggdd forever #bxg perpectives #ask

[rainbowsky]

I feel like it would be better if everyone could just concentrate more on the projects GGDD are bringing out ( SDC and OOL for example) and less on political issues that's out of our hands. More of that positive engagement is what we need

If you prefer to look away from politics that is your right, but that's not something you have the right to ask of others. Especially considering that I tag every political post that I make, so there's no excuse for people seeing things they don't want to see (if you want to avoid political posts from my blog you can filter the "your political disengagement is a weapon against you" tag).

You have created a false dichotomy here anyway, because people are focusing on both. People are enjoying and loving GG and DD and their projects, while reflecting on politics surrounding them.

I believe personally that in order to have a truly balanced and healthy perspective on GGDD one must do both. However, not everybody is up for that emotionally or psychologically, and that's totally fine too.

I'm going to go over some points that I made about this topic a while back. This is a slightly revised version of what I've said in the past. I hope after reading this, Anon, you can understand why I don't find the approach you've proposed acceptable.

“BXG should stay away from politics”

While I understand some people get involved in fandom strictly for the enjoyment and escape, I don’t think it’s appropriate for those people to try to dictate how others approach things. As a politically-minded person, the idea of ‘staying away from politics’ - especially the idea of pressuring others to stay away from politics - goes against some of my most deeply held values.

There are also some fairly glaring problems with the idea that BXG should stay out of political discussions.

1] Making it socially unacceptable to care about politics is a means of ensuring people remain uninvested in what happens in the world.

‘Politics’ is a word that is often used to emotionally distance people from things that directly impact them. Labeling social issues as ‘politics’ and then making 'politics’ a dirty word is a psychologically manipulative practice that frames important, life-changing issues as tedious, negative and inappropriate pursuits. People might as well be saying, “Don’t trouble yourself with how the world is run, with how people treat each other, with what you’re allowed to do, say or think, with who is in charge of things or what decisions and actions they impose upon others.”

How convenient for the powers-that-be. How convenient for the status quo. A population that has a distaste for 'politics’ has a distaste for concerning themselves with their own interests. A population that has a distaste for politics will not only avoid thinking about how things are run, they will dissuade - often vociferously - other people from thinking or talking about those things as well.

When you make it socially unacceptable to think about issues that matter, you ensure that the people will never really question what’s happening, or demand change. You will ensure that people do not inform themselves or reflect on and develop their own ideas and values. You will ensure that people who try to stand up for themselves in a broader way will have little support, and will face bullying and stigmatization for their efforts.

2] Disinterest in politics reflects a level of privilege a lot of people don’t have.

When an issue of injustice comes up and someone’s response is, “I don’t want to talk about politics,” or “Let’s try to stay away from politics” in a very real way the message they are communicating to others is, “Whatever is happening to those people, I don’t care. My conversational discomfort in this moment is more important than the injustices those people are dealing with.”

The fact is, our actions and choices are inherently political. They reflect and often reinforce the sociopolitical structures we live within. The purchasing decisions we make, the media we consume, the ideas and policies we legitimize via our behavior - all of these things are political whether we know it or not.

The big difference between thinking of ourselves as political and thinking of ourselves as not political is that apolitical people are able to move through sociopolitical structures completely unconsciously, while others don’t have that luxury. Poor people, racialized people, immigrants, targeted minorities - none of these people have the luxury of ‘not caring about politics’. Their lives often depend on being deeply invested in what happens in the public and private sphere.

If you’re able to ‘not be interested’ in politics then you are a fortunate person indeed.

To people faced with injustice and inequality, politics can often be a question of their very right to exist, let alone thrive, in this world.

3] Editing politics out of discussions about GG and DD is a lot like erasing their queerness. It adapts them into a narrative that, while it may feel good for some fans, isn’t real.

It may make some fans more comfortable to edit out the parts of this fandom that are confusing or unsettling, but fans who prefer their perspective to be balanced and based on reality will just have to accept that this fandom will sometimes force us to reflect on things that aren’t so pleasant.

GG and DD are living under an authoritarian regime. They are frequently called upon to perform and present propagandistic ideas and projects. All of this just goes with the territory. If we refuse to explore and understand the political elements surrounding GG and DD we will be missing important context about them and and their lives.

The politics are relevant to the fandom. They are relevant to what we discuss, how and why. They are an inextricable element of GG and DD’s lives, and that necessarily makes them an inextricable element of any meaningful discussion of them and what they do.

4] If you share their propaganda posts and projects, you ARE being political.

I really feel the need to point out this obvious fact, because there appear to be some people who really don’t get it. GG and DD’s propaganda posts and projects are inherently political.

It is hypocritical and unreasonable to spread that propaganda and then tell people not to discuss it.

Having said all of that, there are simple ways to co-exist even if we disagree.

There are a lot of reasons why people participate in fandoms, and not everyone is in a mental or emotional place where they want to be exposed to political discussions, which can be stressful. Fandom can be a form of escapism, and a way to enjoy something light and fluffy without having too look too closely at the cracks in the facade.

That is a perfectly legitimate position to take on things, and people who don’t want to take part should be free to filter those things out of their feeds. Tagging political or stressful posts is a must.

However, what isn’t legitimate is telling other people that they shouldn’t be thinking about it or discussing it, or claiming that it doesn’t belong in the fandom. Respect needs to work both ways, and space needs to be given for people to pursue fandom in the ways that work best for them. 

BXG are a broad category of people with a broad range of interests, motivations and needs. It is possible for all of this diversity to harmoniously coexist, but that means respecting each other and working together. Tagging posts that we know some fans would rather not see is one excellent way of doing this. And that includes tagging posts that contain propaganda messages or projects, which can be offensive or triggering for people who have grown up under authoritarian regimes.

***

I also want to add a personal note here.

There are a lot of troubling things happening right now. A lot of people are feeling unsettled about it. One of the main ways in which people process and come to terms with difficult experiences is through talking about it and exchanging ideas with other people who care. It would be a huge disservice to a lot of fans who are struggling with what's happening to say, "You're not allowed to think or talk about this. Let's focus on other things."

One of the primary purposes of my blog from day one has always been to try to be supportive, particularly of marginalized people or people who are dealing with adversity. I want my blog to always be a place where people can feel safe to talk about the things that are on their mind.

#your political disengagement is a weapon against you #brotherhood and stuff #bxg perpectives #fandom reflections #ask

[rainbowsky]

I can’t wait for oath of love to premiere to see if it’s true gg looks like a plank of wood kissing lmao

Almost all Chinese drama kisses are stiff and sexless. That's just the way it goes. It's actually a running joke, and something people come to expect. And in the rare instances where a kiss does manage to look convincingly realistic it causes a big stir online because it's that rare. Someone told me it's because censorship doesn't allow things to get too steamy.

So I urge BXG not to read into the chasteness of these kinds of portrayals and claim that it's because they aren't into the woman or are turned off or something. When you say that you're basically saying GG and DD are shitty, unprofessional actors. Acting is about presenting a convincing performance, and about convincing people of things that aren’t real.

It's also just inaccurate. Like I said, most Chinese dramas are pretty chaste and sexless. It has nothing to do with GGDD or their relationship or their sexuality.

Even still, GG is a great actor and I'm sure he can sell this romance.

I am super excited about Oath of Love, and can't wait for it to air. The more promo clips I see of it, the more excited I get. I just hope it's not one of those toxic relationships being sold as romance (*coughthewolfcoughcough*). I think that's probably the only thing that could put a big damper on my enjoyment.

I can't wait to see how GG brings Gu Wei to life!!

#ool #bxg perpectives #ask

[rainbowsky]

Bxgs are so annoying about ool they are driving me crazy and I’m a bxg

I feel your pain, Anon. I feel your pain.

I think a lot of people just don't have much life experience, or maybe have no restraint and no sense of perspective. Whatever it is it's embarrassing to watch.

It reminds me of when I was in high school and I had to do a modern dance routine but our team of misfits hadn't put anything together nor practiced at all and we just spent the entire song rolling around on the floor and running into each other as the rest of gym class tittered in the background, and my friend said to me later, "I was so embarrassed for you, man." That's when you know you've made some poor life decisions...

I think a lot of BXG will be wincing a year or two down the road, about how they're behaving right now. 😅

At least we can scroll away. That's always such a comfort.

#bxg perpectives #ool #ask