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So GRRM apparently said Bittersteel and Calla didn't have children, what do you think about this new information? What could be the reason for them to not have any child? Is it possible for either of them to have bastards? How does this information affect Aegon Blackfyre theory?

These are all fantastic questions, anon, and ones that my very patient followers/askers in my inbox have been waiting for me to talk about! I’ve been out of the loop on new asoiaf info due to feeling a little bummed out with fandom for a few months, so GRRM’s Summer 2018 interview actually slipped under my radar. I didn’t find any print transcripts of it when I did a hasty Google Search, so here’s a reddit thread talking about the revealed information; the only part that’s relevant to my answer is that when asked if Bittersteel aka Aegor Rivers had any offspring, GRRM replied with “No, I don’t think so.”

And now, to answer your questions under the very long and probably wanky cut:

Question 1: What do I think about this new information? Well, what GRRM said is a little different than Aegor and Calla not having children; he specifically said he thinks that Aegor probably didn’t have children. We have to consider whether or not GRRM would give out highly plot-relevant information in an interview years before the possible Big Reveal, so he might simply be lying (although I don’t recall whether or not he has directly lied before in an interview). Yet assuming this is the truth, I’m personally rather disappointed that Aegor probably didn’t have children for a few different reasons. Not because I support a theory with a ton of gaping holes in it that nobody else likes to talk about, but because I like Aegor Rivers as a(n idea of) a character and a lack of a close family life is just another personal tragedy of his.

However, the idea that Aegor never had sons (that reached fighting age/were able to fight) is from my point of view pretty clear from the text of twoiaf. I had pointed out to warsofasoiaf prior to making this account that the fact that Aegor’s sons were never mentioned in twoiaf is a strike against the Aegon Blackrivers theory; we don’t know much about Aegor, true, but we do know about his devotion to the Blackfyre cause and how Blackfyre family members personally fought in the rebellions in Westeros, so it would be out of character for Aegor not to have any putative able-bodied sons take the field. While perhaps they were too young to fight in the Third Blackfyre (especially if Aegor’s wife was in fact Calla, at least 13 years his junior), there is no excuse why they were not mentioned fighting alongside Daemon III or Maelys. The way Yandel describes leadership of the Golden Company is another strike against Aegor having sons or even later descendants; he writes that until Maelys the leadership was held by the descendants of Daemon Blackfyre rather than Aegor Rivers, and if the leadership was as nepotistic as Yandel implies, you’d think male descendants of Aegor Rivers would be the among first ones acclaimed captain-general after 241. But all of the known captains-general were Blackfyres rather than Aegor’s descendants (there was no way Aegor’s descendants would’ve been allowed to take the surname Blackfyre given the fear that he was wielding too much power over the cause, as both Daemon II’s failed Rebellion and Aenys’ arrival in Westeros demonstrates). I find it implausible that if Aegor Rivers had descendants the Golden Company would’n’t’ve known and kept them as safe as possible in anticipation of them at least joining the Company, if not fighting for the throne (certainly older exiles like Harry Strickland use their exile ancestry as a form of seniority over others, and a Bittersteel descendant would surely use his ancestry in Company politics).

But I would’ve liked Aegor to have had daughters. I think it could’ve been a bittersweet parallel to the Bracken sisters; that the sexual violence done to them by Aegon IV would give rise to women proud of their female ancestors who sought revenge on the Targaryens. After Aegon IV tortured and executed Bethany and her father and lover, Bethany’s lover Terrence Toyne was avenged by his biological brothers who killed Aemon the Dragonknight, but who was there to avenge her? She had no biological brothers, only a sister who had a son who grew up to spend his life trying to kill and displace Targaryens. It seemed that nobody cared what had happened to Bethany but Aegor. But if Aegor never had children, that lineage is dead and the cruel injuries done to Bethany and Barba can never be avenged by a direct descendant.

It’s just one more horrible thing that happened to Aegor Rivers, a character whom I admire because of his continued survival despite all odds, and it makes his character less interesting: Just like his mother’s, Aegor Rivers’ life was an unending string of tragedies; a permanent exile from 2 weeks old, at age 6 his aunt and grandfather were murdered by his sperm donor without due process, he was raised close to a disputed territory (the Mother’s Teats) that bore the scars of Targaryen cruelty (Daemon Targaryen’s dragon Caraxes had burned Bracken land in 129), and that’s not even getting into what the Targaryens/Brynd3n Riv3rs did to his chosen family the Blackfyres (they essentially slaughtered Daemon and his descendants like they weren’t human). I’d just like some hint that he could’ve been content; that maybe he was more than just an enemy for the Targs/Brynd3n Riv3rs to beat down over and over, but a character with his own life and loving bonds outside of war and tragedy. The idea that he had a wife and daughters introduced a possible different dimension to him; his descendants would’ve been a physical manifestation of his survival to live on in the face of hardship. Yet assuming GRRM speaks the truth, he was just as miserable in his personal life as he was in his dealings with Westeros.

Aegor Rivers having offspring would’ve further made him a foil for Brynd3n Riv3rs. Not because I don’t think Brynd3n Riv3rs didn’t have offspring (although I do believe he was childless), but because BR is very much associated with death and destruction. Every time he’s mentioned in D&E and aDwD, he is compared to a corpse. Each institution the Powers That Be put him in charge of he utterly ruins or dishonors, whether that be as Hand, Lord Commander of the Wall, or the Last Greenseer. By contrast, Aegor Rivers is shown to be a creator of institutions, founding a mercenary Company unusually known for its dedication to discipline, brotherhood, and honor. If he had had children, it would’ve forced the Aegor=life Brynd3n=death symbolism even harder, as Aegor would have physically created a bunch of children who lived beyond his own lifetime.

It just irritates me that GRRM seems to care so little about Aegor that he might not have even thought about him having children. That’s another interpretation to GRRM’s “I don’t think so” answer; that he put so little thought into the life of one of his more influential historical characters that he wasn’t even sure if he’d sired offspring (this is assuming, as I do, that Aegor’s possible descendants aren’t really relevant to the plot of asoiaf). GRRM has answered with “I’m not sure. I need to check my notes” to some questions about his secondary characters, such as where Oberyn Martell was during Robert’s Rebellion; and as of late he seems to have had trouble keeping his facts straight (he endorsed Elio Garcia and Linda Antonsson writing twoiaf because they apparently knew canon better than he did. Which does not make me hopeful for future book releases), but he doesn’t seem to have even had notes on the subject. And either in the same interview or one shortly before/after, GRRM confirmed that in the face of all logic, Brynd3n Riv3rs was allowed to take Dark Sister with him to the Wall despite being a criminal to the Crown with the only Valyrian sword the Targaryens had in their possession. So not only did GRRM flatten and dismiss Bittersteel’s character, but he further nullified one of the few times Bl00draven ever got comeuppance for his atrocities. There’s no sense of balance to their conflict; everything somehow goes BR’s way while BS is condemned to live a life of misery and fade away into nothing. And, contrary to what GRRM likely wanted, this double standard only makes me pity Aegor more and pray for BR’s painful death.

Question 2: What could be the reason for [Aegor and Calla] not to have a child? We know so little about what happened between Aegor and Calla that I think it’s best to look at what we do know—that shortly before the First Blackfyre Rebellion, Daemon I agreed to wed Calla to Aegor—and then examine possible answers to the outcome of Aegor+Calla being childless. Solutions that I can think of, in order of how plausible I think they are:

The marriage was never consummated: Aegor had a Targaryen sperm donor, sure, but he was raised by the Brackens and spent his life fighting against Targaryen supremacy. The idea that incest (one of the most obvious parts of Targaryens believing themselves above others) disgusted him isn’t impossible. That Calla was at least 13 years his junior and knew him since she was a child could’ve disgusted them both further. Also, Aegor was often away fighting in mercenary companies, which decreased the amount of time the two spent together to consummate. Therefore they could’ve had a sham marriage meant only to bind Aegor and the Blackfyres closer together. However, I consider this the least likely answer because 1) Yandel implies that Aegor suggested the marriage in the first place and 2) Aegor is characterized as being very focused on the Blackfyre Cause to the point of losing many of his scruples by the Fourth Rebellion (referring to his ineffectual alliance with Torwyn Greyjoy, a traditional enemy of his Riverlands home), so he’d hardly balk at uncle-niece incest.

Either Aegor or Calla were biologically unable to have children: If this is true, my money is on Aegor, since female fertility in GRRM-land seems to be passed on from mother to daughter. They stayed married until Aegor’s death in 241, and because Calla was 45-56 at the time, she never had any other children.

Calla died before she could have children, perhaps in childbirth: I hate, hate, hate this possibility since it reduces and then fridges a female character for her ability to bear children, but given GRRM’s track record of killing off married female characters in childbirth, it’s a plausible explanation. Aegor never remarried after her death and so also died childless.

Daemon I only agreed to wed the two; he didn’t even officially betrothe them, let alone had a wedding. Thus the marriage never took place at all because…

Calla died before they could wed. I also hate this possibility for creating and killing off a female character to be a cheap red herring, but again I wouldn’t put it past GRRM. In this instance, there’s a historical parallel in the figure of Princess Louisa Stuart, James "the Old Pretender” Stuart’s sister who died unmarried at age 19 from an outbreak of smallpox that struck both siblings. The same results ensued as in part C.

There was no political advantage for it to occur, so Calla married someone else: If you think Aegor was a bad match for a would-be Princess when he was a landless knight dependent on the charity of the Brackens/Blackfyres, think of how much worse he was as a landless exile in a society where knighthood and birth were largely irrelevant, he was geographically and doubtlessly monetarily cut off from the Brackens, and the Blackfyres themselves were desperate for wealthy allies. Although Calla had at least two other sisters (Calla was the eldest rather than elder daughter, implying that she had more than one sister), Rohanne was not going to waste her marriage potential on a penniless sellsword while the Targaryens were trying to curb her influence in Tyrosh via wedding two of their princes to Kiera. No, Calla and her siblings needed to make matches with powerful Tyroshi or other wealthy Essosi families in order to get the funds, ships, and armies to invade Westeros. Remember that Aegor’s chief strength, the Golden Company, didn’t materialize until 212 when Calla was 16-27 and very likely already married to an aforementioned noble.

Calla had children and her descendants still live in Tyrosh: GRRM’s response doesn’t indicate that Calla never had children, especially since it wasn’t made clear that she and Aegor even married. Bear with my tinfoil for a second, but her name indicates that she did have children. We’re supposed to pay attention to Calla’s name because it’s non-Valyrian, unique in book!canon, and above all, a flower name. GRRM loves his flower significance, most famously with Lyanna’s blue roses (unattainable, mysterious, rare beauty) but also with Jonquils (desire, vanity, a happy marriage) and the white water lilies of Maidenpool (purity, peace, spiritual enlightenment). In Calla’s case, the calla lily is a symbol of peace, Christ’s resurrection, and rebirth in the springtime. It’s also known for being able to survive harsh elements and is an odd misnomer (technically neither a calla nor a lily, but its own genus). Considering the strong rebirth connotations calla lilies have, I believe that Calla is the most likely Blackfyre child to have living descendants. That’s not to say that she is the only child of Daemon I to have them (see section 4.4.1 for further speculation on that front), but the implications of her name plus general Nominal Importance (she’s the only Blackfyre descendant we know of not to die horribly and she’s the only named female) indicate that she’s the person through which the Blackfyres survived.

Question 3: Is it possible for either [Aegor or Calla] to have bastards? If 2b is untrue and both Aegor and Calla were fertile, then it’s certainly possible for them to have bastards. After all, we know little about Aegor and even less about Calla. There are rumors that Aegor was in love with Shiera Seastar, and he was so often away from Tyrosh that it’s possible he had an extramarital affair. As for Calla, it is less likely for her to have a bastard (you’d think that if she did, Yandel would’ve mentioned it to discredit Aegor and the Blackfyres even further), but I guess it’s possible for her to have been like her grandmother Daena in that respect. But is it likely? I don’t think so. Maybe it’s just my headcanons firing away, but my idea of Aegor is someone who’s incredibly insecure about sex/sexuality due to what happened with Barba and Bethany; ergo, I don’t believe he would have recreational sex with a woman not his wife. As for Calla, she was part of a family under a lot of pressure to behave appropriately so as to give neither the Tyroshi nor the Blackfyre exiles cause for complaint. I do believe she had legitimate children (see 2.4.2), just apparently not with Aegor.

Question 4: How does this information affect Aegon Blackfyre theory? Compared to GRRM’s answers regarding other fan theories, this one is a pretty direct NO GO. Granted, it’s somewhat cagey (he simply said he probably thinks Aegor he didn’t have offspring, not any other Blackfyres), but think about how he’s responded elsewhere:

Example 1: When asked about Jon Snow’s death, he responded with a dry “You really think he’s dead, do you?” so he’s not afraid of acknowledging a twist most readers already anticipated.

Example 2: On a more important and impactful theory, R+L=J, he refused to confirm or rebut any useful information; specifically, when asked if any Stark other than Ned had children, he said that Benjen was at the Wall, Brandon could’ve sired Snows, and Lyanna died. That non-answer regarding Lyanna was often toted as evidence in favor of R+L=J until the show confirmed it in Season 6.

Example 3: When asked on his blog whether or not those who believe Sansa Stark and Jon Snow will reunite and get married/rule Winterfell together by the end of the series are right, he responded “Not going to say anymore than I have already” which is not the outright dismissal a supposed crackship (or not so crackship, as he’s outright dismissed more popular ships before) would’ve merited.

Thus: GRRM could’ve chosen to avoid or subtly answer the question like he did in these three examples, but he chose to outright confirm that Aegor likely didn’t have children. Up to this point, the most popular subtheory of Aegon VI’s alternate parentage was that he was a descendant of Aegor and Calla, based on Illyrio Mopatis’ claim that Maelys was the last male-line Blackfyre and the fact that Aegon VI has the support of the Bittersteel-founded Golden Company. Now GRRM’s response seems to have brought that theory down; Aegor had no children, so Aegon VI could not be his descendant.

However, rebutting Aegon Blackrivers is not the same as rebutting Aegon Blackfyre. There are several of Daemon’s children who are not confirmed to have died childless: Haegon had at least three sons who may’ve had daughters, Aenys may’ve had daughters, the two youngest sons of Daemon I may’ve had children, Calla may’ve had children by someone other than Aegor, Calla had at least two sisters who could’ve had children, and Captain Daemon Blackfyre and Maelys could’ve had daughters. The potential candidates for female-line Blackfyres is still rather large. The idea that the Golden Company would allow their king’s descendant to grow up apart from them on a poleboat amidst a bunch of Westerosi exiles rather than in Tyrosh actually learning statecraft from his noble family is a strange one, but I leave those explanations to those who actually believe in the theory. (For my part, I believe Illyrio when he said no Blackfyre will take the Golden Company home, but a Targaryen will. He just may not be the Targaryen Westeros or the readers expected.)

In conclusion, I am disappointed that Aegor Rivers was confirmed to not have had children due to character- rather than theory-based reasons; I would’ve preferred that a character that had faced such adversity had a physical representation of his survival in some descendants, but I can live with the Golden Company being his legacy. There are any number of reasons why he never had any legitimate children, but I like to think it was because he remained unwed and devoted to the Blackfyre Cause while Calla had children with someone else. I’ve read some writings by those who subscribe to the Aegon Blackfyre theory, and I can only hope that this new information teaches fandom to speculate a bit more kindly. If someone disagrees with your theory for whatever reason, never call them delusional or say that they are “just fooling themselves.” Never take any theory as obvious, as everything is speculation until confirmed by canon or Word of G-d. Always consider other people’s arguments and try to build your theory based on the text rather than warp the text to fit your theory. And above all, listen with compassion.

Thank you for your interesting set of questions, anon. I hope that I have done them justice in my response.

#ask #asoiaf #asoiaf meta #aegor rivers #Calla Blackfyre #Bittersteel #asoiaf theories #fandom critical #aegon vi #aegon vi targaryen #GRRM critical #GRRM criticism #house blackfyre #asks #anti bloodraven

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