#because there is this narrative that snk is pro fascist

[ohahsoka]

have you ever talked about this? what are your thoughts about people saying snk is pro imperialist pro nationalist pro nazi and pro fascist? i get concerns of antisemitism tropes but when you see the holocaust imagery the jews are the victims still which is whats true right so it cant be all bad right? but it still might have that both sides are wrong mentality which is bad when we have oppressor vs victims. im confused and idk how to feel. i want to keep liking it. how do you deal with this?

i haven’t talked about this, and i was hesitant to answer this message, because, tbh, anon, there is no right answer here.

i recently saw a post about atla and how it gives the imperialistic side of the conflict an uncomfortably sympathetic look. the sexualization of little girls in asoiaf is awfully blatant. equally troublesome is racism in the Essosi storyline. there is an ongoing conversation about Wanda’s whitewashing in the mcu. those are all valid points, imo. still, i engage with these stories, to some extent. 

i don’t believe snk preaches ‘both sides are wrong’ mentality. the oppressor’s pov is almost entirely cut out. the heroes are all Eldian. i keep reading this story because I don’t believe it’s pro fascist or anti-Semitic. if it was, i would drop it. my opinion doesn’t really matter, because it’s just one opinion, and i’m not Jewish. i could write paragraphs arguing about how inclusive and anti fascist the manga’s themes are, but it wouldn’t get us anywhere. because, at the end of the day, how you feel is the only thing that matters.

if you’re feeling uncomfortable about snk, either because of its content or what other people say about it, you should drop it. everyone has their limits, the moment that makes you give up on a story. i had that moment while watching ‘the last jedi’ and seeing how badly finn was treated. i don’t think people who enjoy that movie are awful, but i did block/mute them to clear my dash/timeline.

i know my answer sounds very dry, but it wasn’t my intention. i’m not even sure if i expressed myself clearly. what i meant is, all opinions and feelings are valid, and conversations around problematic aspects of our favorite stories are very important. at the same time, i will keep caring about this manga, and i don’t want to partake in the discourse around snk being fascist propaganda because (1) i strongly believe it’s not true, (2) i want to engage with the story itself, (3) i’m very tired of that kind of negativity. i’ve been in various fandoms and seen too much shit. if this answer makes you (or anyone reading this) think i’m a bad person, it’s okay, you can block me

#snk #my mail #anonymous #i decided i had to reply #because there is this narrative that snk is pro fascist #and it's wrong imo #snk negativity #but honestly it's just not the discourse for me

[lady-bluebird-luv]

Figuring out how to handle SNK

The last few chapters of AoT have set off a lot of alarm bells, and I’m not really sure how to feel. There have been a lot of weird, uncomfortable revelations for a while now: Erwin has connections to Erwin Rommel, who is sometimes considered almost heroic for his involvement in Operation Valkyrie, and whose contributions to the Holocaust are sometimes debated, but who was nevertheless a major component to the Nazi war machine and not nearly as innocent as he’s sometimes made out to be (often by Nazi sympathizers and apologists). Isayama has also defended Japanese war crimes in Korea and glorified a sanitized Yoshifuru Akiyama with his portrayal of Pixis. I’ve stuck by the series for a long time - I wasn’t actually aware of the Akiyama/Pixis stuff and the Korea comments until recently, embarrassingly, and because I love the story and its characters, I was willing to give Isayama the benefit of the doubt. It’s pretty common to see a love of German language, culture, history, etc. in anime and manga (as weird and uncomfortable as I think that is), so the Rommel stuff seemed, several years ago, like a really misguided character design that was potentially a result of insensitive and uneducated, but not necessarily fascistic or antisemitic, fascination with the man. 

(Spoilers for recent chapters below)

In light of recent chapters, I’m a lot less willing to give Isayama the benefit of the doubt. Zeke’s comments about his and Eren’s goals set off all the alarm bells. Previously, we’ve seen Holocaust parallels in the treatment of Eldians in Marley, and the narrative that they are essentially the cause of the world’s suffering. My first thoughts reading Zeke revealing his ultimate goal was that he was essentially suggesting the final solution. 

Given that Isayama has courted fascism, and war crimes in the past, I think it’s pretty clear at this point that those sentiments have bled into his work. It’s incredibly alarming, makes me very uncomfortable, and brings up the question of whether SNK is a love letter to the Nazis - Which lots of people can and have argued, but which I’m not entirely convinced of. Isayama’s views have obviously influenced the series, and we see references to the Nazis and their allies frequently. Some of these references (again, Pixis) are glorifications that don’t reflect the very real, horrific things these figures did, and that’s unacceptable. But I’m not entirely convinced that the story is a validation of the Holocaust. 

Yes, there are pretty clear parallels between the Eldians and the Jewish people, as well as increasingly clear Holocaust parallels. Militarism, Oppression of people based on their ethnic group, war, and fascism feature heavily in AoT, especially in depictions of Marley and Marleyian characters. But a distinction that I think is important to make is that these themes are not glorified. Dominating rulers of the world’s various factions are corrupt, or liars, or ineffective, or some combination of the three. Time and time again, war and imperialism are shown to not be glorious and exciting, but rather a pointless, brutal exercise that leads to nothing but loss and enduring societal scars. Those who condemn Eldians, calling them devils and working towards the destruction of the Eldian people, are not heroes. Saying that Eren’s goals, or that Eren himself at this point, is “good” is a massive stretch - maybe because of the morals of readers, but also because I really don’t see his goals portrayed in a positive light. The Eldian people he wants to end are victims, and I don’t think the fiery narratives they’re bombarded with negate the fact that they are not, in actuality, demons - they live in a brainwashed society that hates them for crimes that aren’t their fault, forced to respond to people who want to destroy them. People have pointed to the designs of the titans as mimicking anti-semitic caricatures:

And yes, in this case the comparison is there, but this is the only titan that really supports this particular criticism of Isayama’s work. From what I saw when I googled “Attack on Titan titans”, the others don’t have similar features. Titans are also meant to look grotesque, often with features in strange proportions, so the features of this titan that people have zeroed in on doesn’t necessarily scream anti-semitism to me, even in the context of the series. It’s also important to note that, while the unsavory comments like the ones Isayama has made are often made in conjunction with those that are anti-semitic, he hasn’t (as far as I know) made openly anti-semitic remarks, and hasn’t responded to the recent concern over his series. 

I’m also very skeptical of the origin story of the titans that’s been used to point to Isayama’s anti-semitism. Time and time again, the history given to the characters has been falsified (e.g all the history fed to the islanders by the royal family), so I’m not inclined to believe an origin story that’s been used by the Marleyians to their political advantage, especially given the story’s almost mythic depiction. In SNK’s Holocaust parallels, if the Eldians are Jewish, then Marley is Nazi Germany, and it’s pretty clear to me that Marley, a fascistic state, is not and has never been the good guy. 

Maybe Isayama is writing an ode to the Axis powers and never meant for my takeaway from his work to be, “War is awful, and if you teach children to hate each other, you perpetuate a cycle of death, despair, and prejudice.” But that’s the takeaway I have. Considering the comments he’s made, those sentiments may have led to a deeply anti-semitic work, and it’s true that just because something isn’t blatantly anti-semitic doesn’t mean it isn’t supporting Nazis at all. Given my uncertainty, I don’t really know what to decide as to how (or if) I continue to support the series, but I just don’t see AoT as pro-Nazi. I also don’t see a lot of evidence for AoT being a reversal in which the people inside the walls are the “Aryans” and forces like Marley are the Jewish people/Africans oppressing them, which I known is a theory some people have proposed. 

I don’t deny the horrors of the Holocaust and Nazi Germany, and I’m not defending Isayama’s comments, as much as some people reading this may decide otherwise. As much as I’m not entirely convinced AoT is meant to be Nazi propaganda, I don’t deny that Isayama has made some pretty fucked up decisions while writing his manga. It brings up the debate of whether or not people should support work they enjoy when the author has been established as an unpleasant person (i.e. Ender’s Game and Orson Scott Card), and whether art can be separated from the person that makes it. I don’t think Attack on Titan can be separated from influences on the author that clearly shine through, but I’m also not convinced that the manga is one big jerk-off session to fascist, anti-semitic regimes. I’m very hesitant to condemn it, especially considering that SNK isn’t over. Maybe, based on the way the story ends or developments in future updates, I’ll change my opinion. For now, I see the alarming elements there are in AoT as more of a jumble of Isayama’s beliefs than evidence of a concrete pro-Nazi narrative, as dangerous and vile as they are. 

Granted, I’m biased. I love AoT’s characters, and I have a lot of good memories of the story. It’s been a big part of my life for a long time, and I want to preserve it if I can do so with my conscience intact - I like to think that my love of fictional people doesn’t undermine my hatred of violent bigots. I don’t want to annihilate something that I see a good message in because of vile things the author says when it’s not entirely clear to what extend those sentiments shine through and what conclusion the story will ultimately make. If, as the story continues, something happens that makes its anti-semitism undeniable, I’ll condemn it in a heartbeat. But I’m not wholly convinced at this time, and I haven’t reached that breaking point. 

#attack on titan #antisemitism #nazis #snk spoilers #snk 114 #snk 116 #snk analysis #bluebird's snk meta