#and you can be disappointed that avengers didn't go that route but its not a flaw in the writing that that isn't what they were going for

[cogentranting]

My hot take is that the Avengers never felt like a found family because they were never intended to. They were always meant to be a group that comes together and then separates again as needed. They're friends. Coworkers. But they were never meant to be a family.

The only exception is Natasha-- for her they were a family. And her bonds to the other Avengers in general are more significant. She's unquestionably family with Clint. She's very close with Steve. SHe's got mentor/big sister relationship with Wanda. She and Tony are close. She and Bruce had their romance. So for her specifically there is a found family aspect that's legitimate.

But for the others, I don't think you can criticize the Avengers for not feeling like a family because they're not supposed to.

#mcu #avengers #because it keeps popping up in response to how good the found family dynamic is in gotg 3 #which it is! #it's great #and you can be disappointed that avengers didn't go that route but its not a flaw in the writing that that isn't what they were going for #and personally i think by its very nature it couldn't be the found family story people wanted it to be because its impermanent #I do think the cap team-- steve sam nat and sometimes bucky and wanda DO feel much closer #THEY are maybe a found family #but even then #i think they are more about friendship #a really tight bond of friendship! #and i think its important that some relationships are allowed to just stand as friendships #and i think the avengers have a good friendship dynamic too #but by its nature it is not the CLOSEST friendship set for any of them (again except natasha)

[utilitycaster]

I think Star Razor being a vestige makes a lot of sense because it's pivotal to Fjord's arc & it would have been a little disappointing if it had been later swapped out for a more powerful weapon at higher levels (granted that's a big if). This way it gets to evolve with him. The others don't need that. I think it's sort of comparable to Hardwon's Queenshammer - it was such an apt weapon from a story POV that Murph probably didn't want to replace it with something stronger but less significant.

Yeah, that’s another part of it - I mean it’s already a pretty powerful weapon, but given that it’s symbolic both of the party rallying around him and his pact to Melora it would be really weird to swap it out for like, a random Holy Avenger that they find in a few levels.

I think personally, I’d rather see more of a blessing-like boon for Caduceus, Yasha, and probably Jester, from their respective deities, and for Caleb I think it would be far more interesting for him to perhaps find a fragment of a spell in Aeor or the astral city that would be a strong lead on his original time travel plans (with the potential for him to benefit in another way even if he decides that ultimately he doesn’t want to go that route - I’m sure there’s a good way to use that in a spell homebrew).

I’m honestly not sure how I’d do the same for Beau, who has some legitimately very cool items but nothing vestige-level, or for Veth, who already got what she didn’t necessarily think was possible (and which Sam said did not need to come out in game). In some ways I feel the greatest reward for Beau will be some of her theories being correct, and the respect she’s gained within the Cobalt Soul - perhaps having her ideas validated and the aid of the Cobalt Soul against the Cerberus Assembly at her command. I’m honestly kind of stuck with regards to Veth, other than maybe letting Yeza be there for some Cerberus Assembly vengeance so that they can one day return to Felderwin (in case you cannot tell, all three of the current major plot threads are incredibly exciting to me, and also I really like Veth as a character but her motivations currently are really tricky to follow - I understand her position, and it’s fascinating, but I don’t know how to reward it).

I think the example of the Queen’s Hammer is a really good one for how an important magical item is at its best; it should fill a need for that character and symbolize some kind of bond. I also really like the Queen’s Hammer as your comparison because Hardwon was also an orphan who never really felt like he belonged anywhere in part because of his race, and who mostly only knew tough love and very specific  ideas of masculinity and the hammer symbolized belonging and unity and a way to protect others.

Of the Campaign 1 vestiges, all were cool, but like, while they were mostly clearly intended for certain characters, some really felt tied to plot and character development for me (the deathwalker’s ward, fenthras, titanstone knuckles) and some were certainly cool and enhanced a character but never felt as intertwined with that person’s arc (spire of conflux, cabal’s ruin, whisper, plate of the dawnmartyr) and some were mythcarver which I genuinely think is extremely cool but between the house rule that you could cast L1 healing word even after casting a spell as your action, Scanlan’s well-chosen magical secret spells, and Scanlan’s complicated and unexpected character arc, was just not terribly necessary.

Like, I think all the vestige talk needs to be tempered with the fact that some of the vestiges weren’t used a lot, or were cool but weren’t actually that symbolic! When I think of Percy’s development I don’t really think of objects and more about his actions and how Whitestone took the place of Greyskull Keep; Keyleth’s development is far more symbolized by the mantle of the tempest; and Pike and Scanlan’s blessings felt far more personalized and symbolic of their story than their vestiges. I feel like the vestiges in the campaign guide would mostly be like the spire of conflux in that they’d be useful but they wouldn’t feel so essential to the character.

#Anonymous #critical role #critical role spoilers #naddpod