#and ned promised her. who gives a shit abt rhaegar he is literally ned stark's son! and arya and sansa and bran and rickon's big brother!

[hellgram]

also with all the damage the show did to jon's reputation as a good northern lad and wildling i hope germ comes out with like. yeah he's rhaegar and lyanna's son and the name she gave him while bleeding out on the birthing bed alone but for her big brother holding her hand in a tower with no way to know that baby aegon had been murdered leaving the title of Egg 6 up for grabs was like. howland.

#another big issue of fandom missing the narrative forest for the tinfoil theory trees for me is the duality at the core of jon's story #and centering targ vs stark when he's spent all the books fighting his identity as a stark vs a watchman #and Finally coming to a point where he can deny stannis and say i have a name. being satisfied with being a snow bc it does not matter #at the wall nor beyond it. and his fatal flaws in adwd are 1. he can't lead the way westerosi feudalism demands 2. he loves his family #two things that point very far away from him being a secret targaryen as something actually consequential beyond its role on history #and in places where his parentage matters is about wondering who his mother is. and his mother is lyanna and she loved him. #and ned promised her. who gives a shit abt rhaegar he is literally ned stark's son! and arya and sansa and bran and rickon's big brother! #at this stage what he is to the Greater North (wall & beyond) and the Westerosi North (thru his siblings) is more important than anything #and if he's destined for anything in THAT duality it's king beyond the north though i recognize that that is my tinfoil hill to die on #anyway. if the show confirmed anything abt targ jon as far as i'm concerned its how vital young griff/egg6 is gonna be going forward #mawdop #asoiaf

[ragnarssons]

Why is sansa wanting Northern independence such a bad thing? She could have gone at it at differently but she did talk to dany and Jon abt it straight up and they declined her. Why is she the only character not allowed to have wants and desires??

I was all supporting her until she decided that stabbing a member of her own family in the back was “a means to an end”. Jon asked her to keep his secret. He made her promise. You know who else did? Lyanna fucking Stark, begging her brother to protect her son. Jon! And Ned protected his nephew/”son” with his life, going so far as being hated (in some aspects) by his own wife and mocked by half the country because “uwu Ned Stark has a bastard!” He didn’t care about his reputation or his power or how people viewed him, he knew his family was more important than that. Sansa stans seem to ignore than on s7, Daenerys was advised not to go around in Westeros, like riding on horses and all, because as a Targaryen, related to the Mad King - both things that Jon ARE too! - her life was in danger. Because you never know: there still are Baratheon loyalists or even anti Targaryen people, whatever. Sansa - or the writers, idk? - is literally ignoring her brother’s safety, exposing him as a Targaryen to more and more people every minute. Don’t get me started on “well technically it’s Tyrion who snitched!” no it’s Sansa, and D&D say so themselves: she told Tyrion KNOWING he’d tell other people. Jon’s safety in all of that? Seems she didn’t give a fuck! Don’t get me started on her creating discourse around Daenerys and her advisors and Daenerys and Jon (her ALLY) at THAT MOMENT. Why now? Okay she doesn’t want Daenerys on the Throne, but if Daenerys dies before she gets to defeat Cersei, Jon has NO WAY to get to the Throne. He has no army, he has no political ally (outside of Varys but does he have a House?) the Unsullied, Dorne, Yara, the Dothraki, heck even the Second Sons who are basically the only force left, are loyal to Daenerys. The GC has more chances to rally to Daenerys than they’d ever do to Jon- why? Well because they’re from Essos! Who was in Essos being famous up there? Well Daenerys and no one else! So yeah he has his bro Tormund who is literally on the other side of the country, the Knights of the Vale who are??? Nowhere to be seen? Okay the Northerners follow him but they’re basically not enough against the GC. Not to mention that Jon has no dragon. If Dany loses, Jon dies, because he’s literally in King’s Landing, right there, with her. And do you have ANY IDEA (does Sansa?) of what will happen if Cersei learns about Jon’s parentage? I mean, on top of it all, he’s Lyanna’s son. You know, it’s not like Tywin Lannister got Elia Martell butchered because Rhaegar DARED to marry her and not his daughter Cersei. It’s not like the Lannisters can’t be THAT petty. So how is it smart to weaken Daenerys NOW? Also don’t get me started on the xenophobic-root of it all. Why does Sansa want the Northern Independance? Oh well because she doesn’t trust anyone! Fair! She doesn’t even trust someone who’s had half her army butchered and two of her dragons killed for her family/the war of the dawn. She doesn’t even trust someone who came forward with her, admitted “their weakness” (Dany loving Jon) straight forward to her. Sansa is literally exploiting Jon’s love for Daenerys rn to get to her goal, but I guess that’s morally okay because “she should be able to want thiiiings!!!” Want to talk about straight up? Guess what, she never came “straight up” to Jon about the Northern independance, they never talked about it, only about Jon giving up his crown. In fact, Sansa only voiced WHY she wants an Independant North to Daenerys: BECAUSE Daenerys was the one coming to talk to her, not the other way around. Before that, Sansa’s plan was just to act silently petty and full of disdain and that’s it. Had Sansa made ANY EFFORT to try and talk with Dany about it - other than with sheer animosity like in that scene - and Dany would have been like “it’s not even a question!” or whatever, I would have understood Sansa’s plotting better. But no, she never ONCE tried the “honest” road, literally talking to the Queen who was right there, she just plotted behind her back.Yara did it the honest way; she came, she was like “hey you need boats! I’ll give you boats and you help me with my home, okay??” and everything went FINE. How could Sansa not do that? Especially towards someone her brother LOVES! Whether or not Sansa thinks it’s “smart” out of Jon to love someone, he still does! Doesn’t she think killing the woman he loves and breaking his heart for a metal chair will DESTROY their relationship and her family?? And now, she’s plotting as far as planning to have her murdered, all that for HER goals (because jon. does not. want. the throne!). Jon getting the Throne would serve Sansa and all the people who are counting on the oppoprtunity of manipulating Jon’s ass once he’s king (*cough* Varys). All that because Sansa is so paranoid, so sure she’s “right” that she doesn’t even think about any other possibility. Heck, is it really paranoia? Because we literally have David Nutter saying it’s about jealousy and power! Imagine that? Sansa betraying her brother to gain power. That’s literally like Cersei killing Margaery right in front of Tommen’s nose. Even when his brother loves that woman, even when it puts her brother’s life in danger, even when Daenerys never even did anything to appear as an enemy to Sansa. Sansa has a roof over her head rn, because of Daenerys’ army: and her saying “we’ll never forget them!” about men she doesn’t even know to try and sound “thankful” was the fakest shit she’s ever said (she literally forgot about them already and whatever; the Unsullied, the Dothraki, they followed Dany out of love and loyalty, and the Starks are like “we wuv these people who died for the north but FUCK THEIR QUEEN!”). Like?? Do you even stop two seconds to evaluate the shittiness of all of this? The Starks are basically saying “we’re glad we had all this meat to protect our walls but now we don’t care about the woman who came to help us, we want her gone/dead!” WTF?? The Starks? Thinking like this??! It’d be like them throwing Theon’s body in a ditch, saying “welp he helped us but whATEVER!”. No, they somehow honored him. Because “he’s one of them” or whatever bullshit way of thinking they have now. Daenerys didn’t even gain a little bit of their respect, trust or anything, after all she did? Well!I wouldn’t be that mad if I were anti-Sansa. I’m so disappointed in what they did of her because Sansa is meant to be better than that! She’s NOT Littlefinger, she’s NOT Cersei, even tho she learnt from them. Sansa’s kindness of heart was ALWAYS what guided her journey - in the books at least and tbh in the show up until s5 where everything went to shit. I’m disappointed in people being blinded by fucking ships, ignoring what horrible writing this is. I don’t want Sansa to seem like a villain, and at least I thought she’d NEVER betray her brother. She did tho, and the fact that d&d and nutter are confirming that it’s nothing but to grab power gets me… what the fuck. I have a problem with Sansa not caring about human life when she’s thinking about her goals: because that’s NOT canon Sansa. That’s not book!Sansa. That’s not Ned Stark’s - I will not have a young girl butchered because my King sees her as a threat - daughter. She can want whatever she wants, but there are ways of doing things, stomping on other people isn’t a good way to get to your goals. If y’all need that lesson in life: here, take it, it’s free. (to be clear, I’m mad at Sansa like I was mad at Bellamy after ep 5x09, Bellamy wanting to save his friends wasn’t inherently bad, of course. His way of doing things tho, betraying clarke - his canonically best friend who thought died for him like 4 days ago - and using a - HER child - child as a pawn to do so? NOP! Sansa wanting to be free and safe isn’t bad, of course not! But betraying her brother and distrusting - to the point of wanting to kill! - a woman who has never done anything to harm her? NOP!)

#answered #anonymous