#and its probably cause at first he had issues with the comics medium im not sure but it gave me first issues of sandman vibes but he got UP

[comicteaparty]

April 18th, 2019 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party chat that occurred on April 18th, 2019, from 5PM - 7PM PDT.  The chat focused on The Carpet Merchant of Konstantiniyya by Reimena Yee; Edited by Atla Hrafney.

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Chat:

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- THURSDAY BOOK CLUB START!

Good evening, everyone~! This week’s Thursday Book Club is officially beginning! Today we are discussing The Carpet Merchant of Konstantiniyya by Reimena Yee; Edited by Atla Hrafney~! (https://reimenayee.com/the-carpet-merchant-of-konstantiniyya/)

Remember that Thursday discussions are completely freeform! However, every 30 minutes I will drop in OPTIONAL discussion questions in case you’d like a bit of a prompt. If you miss out on one of these prompts, you can find them pinned for the chat’s duration. Additionally, remember that while constructive criticism is allowed, our focus is fun and respectfully appreciating the comic. All that said, let’s begin!

QUESTION 1. What is your favorite scene in the comic so far and why?

my favorite scene is definitely the one where zeynel sneaks off in the middle of the night after eating the cat to go pray. i love this scene for how emotionally raw it is. like this is somewhat being stripped and presented at their most desperate and vulnerable, and every part of the scene shows that. while at the same time, it has a good balance of feeling sort of mystical and expressing zeynel's faith through the choice in visuals and how many of the panels are composed together.

another of my favorite scenes is the end of volume 2 where certain ppl kick the bucket. it too was a powerful scene in terms of emotion and vulnerability, and another moment where i truly felt like the character in question was being their truest selves without the layers that ppl build up to protect themselves. not to mention i appreciate the bittersweetness of how it played out and how kindness kind of won in the end.

mathtans

Heeeey there. So, I kinda screwed this one up. Because normally when I reach the navigation page, I hit "FIRST". Aaaand... yeah, that wasn't the Carpet story. There's apparently a whole lot of other stories that come first. I was very confused, and this was a busy week. I figured it out half an hour ago and am reading now.

RebelVampire

oh dear. thats a lot worse than i was assuming too cause i knew the other comic was interspersed between the first and second volume. but now im glad i was vague in that last answer XD

mathtans

I was surprised it had been running since 2013 and then I noticed the artist had said they started it in 2016 in their kickstarter and derp. So I'll just kinda thumbs up stuff as I spot it.

reimena

If it makes it easier; here are the ebook versions of Volume I and II

Vol I: https://reimenayee.itch.io/the-carpet-merchant-voli Vol II: https://reimenayee.itch.io/the-carpet-merchant-volii

mathtans

Oh, hello author. Thanks.

(And now I must go tend to the wee one.)

RebelVampire

let's see then in the meantime. i loved the first scene where we see zeynel plying his trade and selling a carpet. like the scene immediately paints a picture for the visuals and draws you in with them. and the visuals are consistently beautiful throughout the comic.

but by contrast, i also appreciate the scene later on in the second volume where Mora wtfs Zeynel just taking the insults and Zeynel explains how its part of the job etc. etc. It was interesting to see this other take on his job and that not everything about selling carpets is all that fun and even if youre a cool vampire, sometimes you gotta swallow your pride and accept customers being dumbasses.

mathtans

Back-ish. Oh yes, the visuals are amazing. Not just the carpet patterns either. Even the sheep were different.

Lots of neat cultural stuff too.

RebelVampire

what i appreciate i think is the character of the backgrounds. cause a lot of them have what im going to describe as this splash effect. and while it may not always have anything to do with whats in the main panels and is mostly there to not be white space, i feel they always add great atmosphere to each individual page.

yeah i really adored the culture stuff. this is definitely not a heavily featured culture in comics so it was super interesting to get to see it.

though i also appreciate later zeynel's ability to just kind of meld into different cultures. cause it really gives the opportunity to compare, contrast, and appreciate

one thing i also want to say in regards to culture is that i also appreciate that the comic balances having unique culture features while still telling a story that is really universal to anybody. so you dont need to have some deep specific connection to the culture in order to appreciate the story in its fullest

QUESTION 2. One of the comic’s central themes is related to stories and story-telling. Overall, what do you personally think the comic is saying about the importance of stories in our lives? Of the fables that were juxtaposed to the main narrative, which one captured your imagination the most? How did you feel it related to what we were seeing in the story? In what ways did you see stories affect the lives of the characters within the story? Additionally, what did you make of Zeynel’s explanation about each carpet having a story within it? How do you think this applies to the works we see in our own lives? In total, how has the comic changed the way you see stories and how they shape our lives?

mathtans

Okay, little one's settled back in the crib, more fully back now.

Yeah, the story seems universal (from what I've gathered so far, with the two families). So it's more a bonus, the phrases and references and things.

RebelVampire

ill tackle the second question first. my favorite fable juxtaposed to the main narrative was Karagoz and Hacivat. there were a lot of reasons this juxtaposition really worked for me. first off, its premise of being a show that zeynel was watching i think somewhat helped build a feeling of nostalgia. like because the show was in the past, it helps illustrate how far away zeynel is from that. however, i think it further helps set up the idea of culture clashing. and predictively shows that both sides kind of have a negative and specific view of the opposing culture. so when these come up in the story, they help paint a particular perspective regarding them. and kind of force us as the readers to recognize that both sides have their biases as zeynel adjusts to life in different places.

mathtans

I know the feeling of being a better listener than talking about oneself. (Just as I'm reading, not sure if that necessarily relates to the stories idea.)

RebelVampire

in terms of the importance of stories, i feel like the comic was overall trying to say that stories help us connect to the world around us. and i kind of think this is represented with young zeynel. cause he sucks at talking about himself, but tells and listens to stories to connect with others. and this is how he bonds with people, learns about the world, and somehow down the line eventually learns about himself.

reimena

I do have thoughts of the intention behind the Karagoz and Hacivat scene, but I'll wait until everyone's done typing! (unless you want it now)

RebelVampire

you may go ahead since math definitely wouldnt be close to that one. participate as you would like

mathtans

I agree with what Rebel said, both about the bonding and learning through stories, and about the do your thing and don't wait for me, I'm a slow reader in general.

reimena

Haha I'm just lurking (doing other things while keeping this discord open). Only dropping in when necessary. (I appreciate all of the discussion though! <3)

mathtans

There's some really good non-dialogue panelling as Zeynel is opening himself up to the merchant life.

reimena

With the Karagoz and Hacivat story, it was meant to act as first, a parallel to Zeynel and Mora (with Zeynel being Hacivat, and Mora being Karagoz). Second, a subversion of the Other. Since Vol II is a jab at Orientalism, I thought it would be fun to have characters who are normally seen as "Other" to call out the Western world as their "Other".

Muslims both in the past and the present have always been constructed as monstrous or barbaric in Europe. Very rarely in a visual medium's critique of Orientalism do I see the opposite. Especially in the context of the era the comic is set in.

RebelVampire

i definitely appreciate the subversion of the "Other" then if it was intentional

reimena

Which explains the European wooden puppets at the end. The costumes, the white facepaint and blush, and the 3D construction of the design. Those are European. And they look rather jarring and out of place in a book that's mostly visually Ottoman.

mathtans

I was a little worried about how Zeynel's parents would react to his independence. It felt spot-on in the end, in particular the embrace and such, I'm glad he managed it. (Then fainting, hah.)

RebelVampire

this is true, their design really is odd compared to the rest and it did make me wtf for a moment admittedly. but i also definitely thought it made sense in the context

zeynel's parents reaction surprised the heck out of me, but probably in the good way

usually when you have overbearing parents, you expect them to be stubborn and not able to be persuaded. and yet here they were not and i thought that was a nice variety.

mathtans

Yeah, I was wondering about that, but the conditional acceptance worked for me.

Oh, well, the next sequence is a kick to the heart for me.

reimena

That's because they really love Zeynel. It's more overprotectiveness than being stubborn

mathtans

Speaking as someone with infertility issues in the family, ouch. Captured well though.

RebelVampire

QUESTION 3. Though much of the comic is about stories, there is also a lot of focus given to defining ourselves and achieving our dreams. Between Zeynel and Ayşe, which character’s struggle with their future path did you identify with most? What about it made it compelling? What do you think the comic shows and says about the way we define ourselves and pursue our dreams as it relates to others? Further, the narrative somewhat creates an identity crisis for Zeynel when he becomes a djinni/vampire. What part of his transformation did you find most compelling in his reaction towards it? What do you think we can learn from the comic in regards to moments like this where who we are changes? Is there anything else you’d like to mention in regards to identity and the comic?

i think i identified most with zeynel in regards to the future path struggle. cause ive been there with zeynel where you dont know what to do. and then you encounter ppl like Ayşe who just are 100% of what they want to do. and it can be an intimidating experience that makes you feel more lost sometimes, which i do think at first kind of happened. mostly cause zeynel really opened up and laid everything bare after some pressuring and i think its because Ayşe caused those emotions to reverberate more strongly than ever.

mathtans

Yeah, I've never really been clear on where I'm going, but I'm highly organized in the moment. Then there's those times when I know where I'm going (start a family) and reality just kicks you from behind and says you need to adapt those plans.

RebelVampire

yeah. but ultimately what i found about zeynel's struggle was how we were shown how he overcame it. in that he found something interesting that he was good at and decided to give it a try against all he was taught. but that it was something he did with those around him supporting him. and i think in a large way this is part of what the comic shows about defining ourselves. that in essence we are defined somewhat by the people around us, such as how zeynel's parents picked his career or how Ayşe herself was defined by her family's occupation. but at the same time changing how we see ourselves is made a lot easier when those around us who originally helped define us support explorations into other areas.

mathtans

Yeah, Zeynel also got a lot better at talking about himself. (I'm at the part where he heads off, runs into a guy and is suddenly telling him all about himself and carpets.)

RebelVampire

its easier to talk about yourself when youre proud of what you do

i really enjoyed how zeynel's vampire situation kind of goes through a lot of the stages of grief. though not all with zeynel either. cause i think denial hit Ayşe a lot, lot harder. but i think it played out really well because of that since his reaction felt extremely realistic.

and i love how hard they tried to make it work before hitting that acceptance stage

but all together i think the comic shows us that sometimes we do change, its sad, but we have to accept it cause no matter how hard we may try to make something work, the reality is it doesnt always

mathtans

I'm at the transformation part. That's rough. Some stuff you can just write off, but then reality hits you once again... and yeah, I agree Rebel, reality can be at odds with what we want or believe.

Interesting how the tavern guy, while being a jerk, still had an element of sympathy to him, what with his history.

RebelVampire

i felt bad for tavern guy. cause he was definitely a jerk, but at the same time all i can think of is how this poor guy will be found and no one will know who the murderer was. and maybe therell be a vague description of some out of town dude showing up. but then nothing cause this isnt modern day and its not like they have forensics or security survellaince footage.

mathtans

Yeah. Though I guess he did kinda want death, just earlier when he was with the sultan... his reality didn't work out either.

RebelVampire

it certainly did not.

i like to think tavern dude was the showcase of what happens when you choose to define yourself with anger and revenge

mathtans

Perhaps he wanted to beat someone up and figured an out-of-towner was better than someone who might have relatives nearby.

The night imagery when he goes back home is very effective

RebelVampire

that is probably true cause that scene made me marvel about how if you killed for self defense, the best course of action probably is to just run the heck away. cause like, who are you going to tell? and what is the liklihood those you tell are going to believe you that it was self defense? cause if i was like some town guard and some out-of-towner said to me "nah dude it was totally self defense" i might be like "idk man that sounds suspicious"

QUESTION 4. Much of the second volume focuses on the character of Mora and Zeynel’s affect on him. Overall, what is your opinion on Mora? Do you feel Zeynel handled the situation correctly, or would you have done it differently? Why do you think Zeynel had the affect he did on Mora? Do you feel Mora’s regrets at the end redeemed him, or do you feel that he had done too much damage by this point? Do you think Zeynel was sincere in saying that he would try and start forgiving Mora at the end? In essence, what do you think Zeynel and Mora’s story together says about good and bad people? Additionally, what is your take away in regards to the themes of redemption and forgiveness? What in the comic made you feel this way?

i love mora because he is a conflicted, murderous teddy bear who got dealt the worst hand in life.

and i think zeynel handled the situation 100% correctly. because i think that played into a large reason why he has an affect on mora. cause i think its relevant to even the scene where we first see mora. in that mora is flat out just not used to kindness. and that she be shown kindness reminds mora that not everyone are the people who were awful to him in his past.

mathtans

I don't think I'll get that far. Ayse is taking this better than I thought she would.

RebelVampire

honestly i didnt know what to expect for how Ayşe would take it. i was legit as nervous as zeynel about it. cause this is an unbelievable situation where you have to ask a person to 1) believe youre now a supernatural creature and 2) be okay with the fact that you sorta murdered someone, even if out of self defense

but i enjoyed i didnt know what to expect

cause it helped put me in zeynel's shoes

mathtans

Yeah, I kinda thought she'd let him go and try to find a cure or something. But in the story she told, I guess she still needs him as a constant in her life.

It's kind of regressed Zeynel back to the point where he's not sure who he is any more, or what he wants. Before it was his family affecting him, now it's this inner demon.

RebelVampire

since you wont be to that volume i wont dwell on it, but i do want to finish the last set of questions off by saying i do feel mora earned his redemption in a sense. not in the lets all forgiveness sort of way, but in the sense he finally took a satisfying step in the right direction since he acknowledged everything he had done to that point was wrong. but with mora and zeynel, i think the story is saying bad and good people are still people. and that bad people are often bad for reasons and that while we dont have to forgive them, theres a degree to which we should still show them some human decency. and that if said bad person is trying to redeem themselves, its good to encourage it even if to us personally they cant be redeemed.

mathtans

Definitely address your questions, they seem like good ones.

RebelVampire

i think thats a good way to look at the transformation. that hes regressed. cause its definitely an identity crisis

like even without the vampire thing i doubt zeynel would have labeled himself as someone capable of murder

so that in itself is a holy crap moment

mathtans

He never knew what he was capable of until it was thrust onto him.

Something I've noticed narratively is the use of flashback. We started with the little blurb on the boat... then to the carpet selling... then back again 25 years. (There was something similar in the very first story too, the one I started reading accidentally.)

RebelVampire

yeah and tbh i think thats kind of within the comic as well regarding identity. that as much as we can come to define ourselves, we may still be missing portions of that definition if we never test ourselves in certain ways and find out what were actually capable of in certain situation.

mathtans

I always hesitate a bit with that style, like I wonder if it's really necessary, but I thought it worked well in terms of how the 25 years got kind of "fast forwarded" through the relationship to bring us to the present rather than jumping back. That was good.

(No idea if that narrative idea happens again.)

That's a good way of putting it, Rebel. Not only missing portions from testing but if other people are needed to bring those things into focus for us.

RebelVampire

yeah the use of flashback is interesting. though i think i most appreciate the first flashback transition from the boat to zeynel's successful merchant life. cause i think the boat really set up some great expectations. so when you see zeynel all happy selling a carpet youre like "hey werent you just eating a rat on a boat how did that come about."

mathtans

I'm not sure I made the link that fast, I just thought they were related or something.

RebelVampire

well even related i still think it sets up ominous tone for future events. so eh.

mathtans

I'm reminded of a conversation earlier today with colleagues, of when someone gets old and feels like maybe it's just their time and isn't necessarily proactive about health and stuff. But others may need that person to still be around. So they make an effort for that reason.

This two-panel style between Zeynel and Ayse is pretty effective.

RebelVampire

i think thats true to whats happening in the story for sure. cause as confident as Ayşe is, i dont think she wouldve accomplished her goals without zeynel. and tbf we dont really see them have that many friends who arent family and working for them. so they probably a close knit group

one thing i want to say at that end is that this comic really made me want to learn how to make carpets so i too can have beautiful carpets on my floor

mathtans

It's like, there's so much emotion here, it needs space to breathe.

I think there was a tutorial panel somewhere in there.

(For making carpets.)

RebelVampire

there was and id be lying if i said i didnt legitimately studied it for a bit

but then i gave up

and felt Ayşe's pain

mathtans

Made it to #300. Rough stuff. Very emotional.

You'll just have to weave your stories in the meantime, Rebel.

RebelVampire

this chat was missing a pun

COMIC TEA PARTY- THURSDAY BOOK CLUB END!

Sadly, this wraps up this week’s Thursday Book Club chat for now. Thank you so much to everyone for reading and joining us! We want to give a special thank you to Reimena Yee and Atla Hrafney, as well, for making The Carpet Merchant of Konstantiniyya. If you liked the comic, make sure to support Reimena Yee’s efforts however you’re able to~!

Read and Comment: https://reimenayee.com/the-carpet-merchant-of-konstantiniyya/

Pledge for a Hard Copy: https://unbound.com/books/the-carpet-merchant-voli/

Reimena’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/reimenayee

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