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elriell · 3 years

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Answer to my LONG ask friend, posting it like this because I imagine it would be way to long or else!

hi i hope you dont mind me asking, but perhaps any elriel meta will be willing to cover the whole berons alliance with the queen? because i think thats our winning argument in favor of elriels endgame. and i wish im not reaching or overthinking this lol.

why it will be our winning argument? becaue the whole beron pledged alliance to the queen dont mean anything just yet, it hasnt been flushed out yet (sarah left it open ended), and it will definitely be the main conflict in the next book just to set up the final book and war where all the sides has been established whos with who.

because in my perspective, elriels story really will trigger that conflict and rhysands warning in az pov is literally the set up for that conflict.

when i read acosf, i was thinking there is literally no point of beron making alliance with the queen aside him wanting to be the high king, more power, why would he do that when the queen is in the continent and him in prythian, other high lords will surely oppose him being the high king. thus its two (if the queen indeed would help him) versus six since koschei is still trapped in the lake. plus, his alliance is still a secret, surely other courts will learn of it, wont they?

now however possible consequences from elriel, beron perhaps will use the rejecting mating bond—the blood duel—as a reason to declare a war and have other courts against the night court or eris will finally dethrone his father and be the high lord. and with eris being the high lord, isnt that going to be one of the key topic for morrigans book? sarah also confirms morrigan book and she admits that she doesnt know what the novella is going to be, so its same to assume that mor will get a full novel.

fyi, i cant see lucien will challenge azriel though, he is decent and will respect elains choice, but beron as cruel as he is will surely do something sinister.

and i stumbled across an account on twitter and they compare elriels story to helen of troy and the set up of the trojan war is literally the same as elriel. also, beron reminds me of agamemnon in troy movie (2004), both of them want more power. there are a lot of similarities, imo, between elriel and the set up of iliad. in iliad there is also a duel between hector and achilles (this is me reaching lol).

thus, aside from elains connection to the dread trove, elriels conflict also has the logical conflict that tied to the whole overarching plot for the plot of the series to move forward toward the end, because like i said the whole berons alliance need to be addressed and in acosf it hasnt been addressed yet, at least not enough.

im really sorry if i come off as rude by asking this. i would do it honestly, but i dont have the confidence to post anything online (hence, im anonymous) and im not as convincing as the others in terms of flushing the arguments.

also, you are literally keeping me sane when all of elain antis trying their hardest to discredit elriels.

thank you❤️❤️❤️

Hi! I’m that anon who said that Elriel’s conflict with Beron could be the winning argument for our ship since they are tied closely with each other based on Rhysand’s warning in Azriel POV. If you decide to answer that question, would you mind if you answer this one instead? As I’m pretty much still stand on that point however I’d like to add and correct some statements that I think I don’t express clearly in my previous question:)

If you don’t mind, I’d like to post my theory here, anonymously, since I’m not confident enough to post my thoughts online yet as I’m afraid I’ll be judged harshly lol. And perhaps other metas such as you would like to elaborate more on the matter since I think it is a vital plot for Elriel’s book. It’s quite long, I do apologize for that:)

Like I said, Beron allegiance with Briallyn didn’t make any sense to me and it also took me by surprise when I read ACOSF. Why?

A. Briallyn lived on the continent and Beron is in Prythian. Wouldn’t it be better for him to seek an ally that is closer to him instead? We know that Beron wants to be an ally with her because he heard about her ambition. And I suspect that Beron wants to be the High King or kill Feyre since he knows that she has his power. But one thing for sure is that he wants more power.

B. If he indeed wants to be High King or kill Feyre then I don’t believe that the other high lords would comply with him. Therefore, Beron wouldn’t stand a chance against the other high lords and lady in Prythian since it is two (before the queen was killed by Nesta) versus six. Plus, Briallyin lived in the continent thus her allegiance was not something that he could hold on to, imo.

So obviously we know that Briallyn is dead and her allegiance doesn’t mean anything anymore. However, from her allegiance with Beron we now know that Beron for sure set to be the other villain of this new overarching plot alongside Koschei. And I also think that Beron would be the main villain for the next book because a villain as big as Koschei would likely be dealt in the last book.

Now, why is it tied with Elriel? I think Rhysand’s warning in Az’s POV explains it plainly, and I can’t help but think that it is a set up, a foreshadowing, of what would happen in the next book, especially since Koschei’s plotline is not foreshadowed enough in ACOSF and we only know of his onyx box which we get from ACOWAR.

If we acknowledge that Elriel is endgame and their story is next, then Beron surely comes to play in the next book. Their relationship will push the overarching plot one step closer to its climax.

FYI, I can’t see Lucien invoke the Blood Duel himself, he is a decent person so he will respect and understand Elain’s choice to be with Azriel since it is definitely where we are going in the matter of endgame. But, Beron, as cruel as he is, will surely make use of the situation to profit himself, to reach his ambition that is momentarily squashed with Briallyn dead.

These are possible results of what could happen with Blood Duel plotline:

1. Beron would ally himself with Koschei as Briallyn did before because he knows he is outnumbered if he declared a war against the Night Court.

2. Beron could convince other high lords in Prythian to go against the Night Court if Lucien was killed in the Blood Duel, I pray that it will not happen though Lucien deserve some peace and happiness with the woman who wants and loves him voluntarily.

3. Eris would rebel against his father's order for Lucien to invoke the duel, and Beron would be dethroned by Eris and he would be the next high lord of Autumn Court.

I personally lean more on number three, because with Eris being the high lord wouldn’t it be one of the key topics for Mor’s book? It is already confirmed that Sarah pitched Mor’s story as one of the books and she admits that she doesn’t know what the novella is going to be. So, it’s safe to assume that Mor will get a full novel, not a novella one. Seeing her sparse appearance and development we’ve seen of her in ACOSF, then it is also logical to assume that Mor will not be the next book main character.

In conclusion, Elriel needs to happen to address Beron's situation and bring the overall plot of the series a bit higher before it reaches climax in the final book. Is it also possible that Beron’s scenario still can be addressed without it being tied to Elain and Azriel? Yes, but, I will say it again, Rhysand’s warning is a clue, a foreshadowing, of what conflict will be covered in the next book. For an author to drop something as big as that but not happening is a lazy writing in my opinion.

In the previous question I also mentioned that Elriel’s story is kinda similar to Iliad. Their set up is pretty much similar to me, however, I don’t think Elriel’s story will end in tragedy since Sarah doesn’t like to read, write, sad endings.

I’m sorry if I come off as ordering you around, but I really appreciate it if you and other metas also put your thought in the whole Beron/Elriel situation since I’m 95% sure Elain book is next and Azriel will be her LI seeing there is no progress with her and Lucien yet.

And I still stand by my point, you and other Elriel metas keep me sane when all of Elriel antis trying their hardest to discredit all of Elriel’s interaction and feeling in order to make their ship endgame. Thank you so much❤️❤️❤️

Wowza! This has got to be one of the longest asks I have ever received, hahah, congratulations and thank you for taking the time to write it to me!

I would definitely consider doing such a meta, I am working on my Elriel debunking one currently, chipping away at it slowly! It’s a big boy.

I definitely agree that it is a very important and key point because like you said Elriel will be the trigger that pushes this story forward, giving Beron the push he needs, and also it will give or potential for Eris to step in and also Lucien by proxy. It would as you said accelerate the whole plot.

I have said before and I will say it again, Elriel brings so much plot to the story and ties in so many different characters, that say Gwynriel for arguments sake, doesn’t. I have no doubts at all who are the next POVs.

Agree with literally every ounce of your first ask, they have all the ties. There is no point mentioning The blood Duel if it is never going to come in to play, whether they actually do it or get close too it has to happen now. And if that is the case then Elriel clearly has to happen to get there! I don’t think Lucien would participate because I think he would respect Elains decision but who knows...

I feel like their is potential for his hand to be forced by say Beron or someone else, like you said though all ties roll back to Elain. And her ARC.

I am so sorry you don’t feel like you can post it yourself, because you clearly have some great well thought out perspective, and you are well spoken. I am sure the fandom would love to hear your thoughts from you, when you are ready of course. Until then you are always welcome to come here and share with me!!

Going to answer your second one separately because I didn’t read the second one first and now I see you said to answer the other one ahhhahaha

#m for ts #replies

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velvet-tread · 6 years

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Unfiltered sweary mess: 507 edition

I had thoughts so I decided to this again. Let’s hope it doesn’t become a habit.

Let’s start with the Bellarke of it all, and the sheer joy of seeing them hustle up a plan together on the fly. AND LISTEN I am not on the #bellamysucksnow train, or the #bellarkeisdead train either and as such fair warning there is squee incoming. It feels like the core of the show has returned to us after s4’s barren years and IT IS GREAT. And honestly? I don’t care that romance isn’t in the air between them RIGHT NOW. I thought I would mind but I don’t. It feels right. It feels true to Bellamy, and it feels true to Clarke, and it feels exactly like the vibe I’d expect and want between two characters who love and respect each other and their choices, who have been apart for so long and need to reconnect. Let’s do right by Clarke and Bellamy, yeah? We’ve waited for 4 seasons (the last of which gave us sweet fa) we can wait a little longer.

And seriously, even if it turns out they are just beautiful co-leaders with a lot of professional respect for each other (yeah RIGHT) they could never, ever kill that relationship for me as long as they are in scenes together like this. I don’t care if they don’t bang (call me out on my lies someone), but the concurrent Bellarke scenes in the dining hall, and the triffid room, and then on Echo-watch just gave me so many OTP vibes. Bellarke are at their most effective when they’re together, even better when they have the support of their genius friends. And we got a return of the Bellarke dry-as comedy double act WTF @the100writersroom are you trying to be good at your jobs or something.

Top bantz, as we’d say in Essex.

Too bad the Bellarke unity ain’t gonna last, but thankfully, Bellarke are just as awesome when they are just…very angry and exasperated with each other ok, but DON’T HURT YOUR PRECIOUS SELF I MAY BE FURIOUS BUT WHEN DID YOU LAST SLEEP AND DO YOU NEED SOMETHING TO EAT

Great to have Monty back in the frame cutting through everyone’s bullshit. I thought he’d been relegated to a bit part this season. Oh ye of little faith. Does anyone realise that Monty is the biological weapon earth forgot? Put that angry face in a room with Octavia and see how long it takes for her to crack and wither from Monty’s externalised disappointment with everyone and everything.

Bellamy burning Octavia ow ow ow. I’ve already spoken about this at some length but damn that hurt. And it was deserved, but still spoke to the depth of his contempt for Blodreina.

Which brings me to…BELLARKE V BLODREINA: GRUDGE MATCH

And man, was this grudge match some time coming. To make sure the audience was VERY CLEAR on EVERYONE’S MORAL STANDING, the show helpfully prepped us with some little reminders that Bellamy helped commit a massacre, and Clarke did a load of horrible human testing in Becca’s lab last season. Thanks show.

So, all armed and loaded, the mud slinging began, and boy was it awesome. First of all Bellarke takes Octavia to task about the worms and TURNS OUT OCTAVIA DIDN’T KNOW which get a grip on power here Octavia because it’s slipping from your grasp faster than you can say Wonkru Barbecue (shoutout to @mego42 – your time is coming). But Miller obviously watched the earlier part of the show and recapped for Octavia just in time because she’s ready for that shit and fires everyone’s dark past back at them. Cue: Bellamy’s best frowny face and Eliza Taylor’s saddest, most regretful Clarke eyes.

Bellarke disarmed and cowed (for now) live to fight another war they don’t want to fight.

But Octavia’s grudge match continues in her office when Indra enters with the intention of being reasonable, which is exactly the kind of shit Blodreina has warned her about before so help her god.

Indra is, obviously, the Queen of Everything and My Heart and delivers some bitchass Truths as Indra is wont to do and Octavia rewards her by throwing what my mind remembers as a skull but was probably a paperweight because why would Octavia have a skull in her office *nervous laughter*

Indra leaves, still Queen of Everything and My Heart, but not before delivering a portentous warning about losing yourself in the dark, which obviously Octavia is not going to listen to because DAUGHTERS, MAN.

Talking of daughters, Madi trying to suck at training was the most adorbs thing I’ve seen in a long time, guys and I am subscribed to a LOT of cat blogs. And man I felt for her. Sucking at anything sucks, and sucking on PURPOSE is just the height of unfair. And she’s in a new school! And the other kids are mean! And maybe they eat people!

Serious question though: from whence did Madi learn her swordswomanship? Clarke? Helios? Roan? (too soon?).

But don’t blame Clarke, Madi! Clarke’s Madi feels are pretty much on a par with mine which means she wants to cry every time she looks at her earnest little face AND CLARKE I FEEL THAT SO HARD YOUR BABY IS ADORABADASS. Which also means MAMA MODE ACTIVATED when Vodka Aunt Octavia starts messing up that precious braid she put in Madi’s hair earlier.

Hey Vodka Aunt, you don’t just get to come in here and make executive choices about Madi’s career, especially given your past efforts at parenting *looks at Ethan*

Oh, oh, oh and WE GOT A RETURN OF THE MUSICAL INTERLUDE! It was like Knocking on Heaven’s Door and Early Seasons feels all over again. But I gotta say Jason, fresh from the Sense8 finale my musical interlude expectations are higher these days and I was a bit disappointed there wasn’t a dance off. Perhaps an orgy or an endgame B/C/E triad instead? *Wanheda jaw clench*

But anyway that whole sequence of Clarke sending Madi off to her first day of training sent me in to a spiral of sadness that lasted for a lot of minutes I wasn’t counting. It was very sad and I am sad about it. Poor Clarke. Just as well Octavia helped her remember she’s motherfucking Wanheda.

MY GIRL ECHO MY GIRLING UP THE HOUSE.

Let’s just take a moment to appreciate what a babe Echo kom Spacekru nee Azgeda is. First of all: EVIDENCE OF SPACE GIRL SQUAD and I am all here for that. Second of all Echo is officially the first person on the show to get one over of Colonel Charmaine Diyoza SOMEONE GET ME A FUCKING SHOT.

And listen up everyone who bashes at their keyboards dribbling with rage about the things other women like on television: I love ladies with swords and if you want an apology for that you’ll have to prise it out of my cold dead body. But can we just take a (second) moment to appreciate that for all of Echo’s badass sword skills, she is Clarke Griffining up this joint like a motherfucker. Echo is as Slytherin as Clarke and as sneaky as Clarke and as smart as Clarke and that manoeuvre she executed with Zeke and Raven was 100% a Clarke Griffin move, don’t @ me.

It’s almost like….they’re similar….on purpose….

Shout out to all the smart, insecure girls who aren’t sure if they belong. Learn to swordfight, use your brain, and get yourself a girl squad and a soft space dad boyfriend.

Sidebar: Clarke’s faith that Echo would take the eye down and her admiration when she does will keep me in Clecho feels for months.

But friends…I am the most fervent of Echo stans and Becho shippers and I am AFEARED. She is very much circling the abyss here and it gives me a sick feeling in my stomach. I believe Raven will forgive her (FOR WHAT CAN SOMEONE PLS ENLIGHTEN ME AS TO WHAT RAVEN IS SO PISSED ABOUT??) and I believe the rest of Spacekru will 100% understand what she did because it was presented to us as an understandable choice. But but but… what’s next? Diyoza ain’t gonna take the turn the other cheek approach to learning that Echo took down her eye in the sky. What if her next move is to make *Echo* her eyes in exchange for safe passage for Spacekru?

*sweats forever*

That seems like a Diyoza move. And like…where would that leave Echo with Bellamy? Her choice would be: tell him and risk the whole mission and/or turn him into a lying liar to his sister too, or not tell him and risk their entire relationship and hurt him very badly. I think I know which one my loyal girl would choose and how that would end.

Fuck fuck fuck fuckity fuck fuck fuck.

*ugly crying*

I’m not ready.

Okay it’s time for a Raven rant. What the hell is going on with Raven this season? Raven has had some beautifully executed arcs in the past, and I am high key here for her to finally get some NC-17 action now she’s done all that Work On Herself, but if Raven’s arc in s5 amounts to RAVEN DIDN’T GET BONED FOR 6 YEARS AND NOW SHE’S GETTING BONED then Imma flip a table.

Sidebar#2 obviously Raven got boned on the Ring, it’s not like they would have had a space orgy without her, come ON.

And just… I’m sorry I don’t get the Zaven. When they released the s5 pics I thought WOWZA these two are gonna be gr9 together and LOOK HE’S A SPACE EXPLORER. How could this possibly go wrong? But somehow, they’ve managed to introduce a character who, on his own, is 10x as compelling as Wick, but has about -100% of the chemistry with Raven. Which is???? Some kind of alchemy??? how has that happened? I love Zeke! I love Raven!!! They’re both MAGNETIC on screen. On paper they should be a perfect fit but it’s like whenever they’re in the same scene together I have the sudden urge to check my emails.

And someone, please, just tell me what work Zaven is doing for either of these characters. What’s Raven’s conflict? How does Zeke resolve it? Is it *literally* Raven being presented with a hot dude with a similar skill set? Sorry I’m out.

And before anyone comes at me with the usual packet of whining about how Echo has stolen all of Raven’s screentime, I’d beg you all to remember that there is no law saying that one woman’s time on tv has to be at the expense of another and this is a GIANT SEXIST TRAP DO NOT FALL FOR IT.

Talking of out, Kabby is also circling the drain and [averts eyes from discourse].

But I’m calling Diyoza’s ship name, and if she bangs Kane I hereby pronounce it TEQUILA [whatever Kane’s ship name is, someone hmu].

OK I need to talk about Gaia now before I get shot down by a thunderbolt. The girl creeps me tf out but I SOMEHOW LOVE HER NOW. This is new and unnerving because feverish religious types are not usually my jam ESPECIALLY if they present Clarke’s daughter with a creepy sacred flash drive that they want to insert in her neck, but somehow Tati Gabrielle nails that line, even if my reaction seeing the Flame was exactly the same as my reaction to seeing the worms.

But I believe Gaia’s intentions, while creepy, are pure. And WHO PICKED UP on how fluid her loyalty is? She will serve Blodreina faithfully as long as she reigns. Huh.

In other news McCreary, and more importantly McCreary’s undercut, were absent from this episode I hope they are both enjoying Memori’s couples counselling retreat. I look forward to seeing his glazed expression next week as I cry my Becho tears.

#rach reviews #507 #usm #is the tag #the100 #bellarke #clarke griffin #becho #bellamy blake #octavia blake #echo kom azgeda #raven reyes #morning reblog

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sxpiosexualx · 6 years

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why do you ship jonsa? my best friend is a hard core jonerys shipper but lately ive been really critical of daenerys, so i cant really hop on that train. i dont really have a preference for jon either way so i wanted to know why you ship them

Oh hello! What a lovely question to ask, though I must warn you this could most likely get draggy and long because I’m so passionate about these two and this ship, they’re my OTP. Actually I only started reading the books last year, before then I was a casual watcher until up to Feb 2016 before season 7 aired. Jon and Sansa had just reunited on the show and I came across this Jonsa instagram on my explore page and I thought, what the fuck is this? It was such an absurd ship to consider - and this is coming from someone who was crack shipping Tommen and Sansa! But I kept scrolling through, the captions in the post came from posts on Tumblr(with credit) explaining the parallels and the ways in which Jonsa could go down and it was sort of like… this strange theory that I subscribed to and was soon convinced of. I tried bringing it up to my friend but she was a casual watcher and didn’t really pay much attention to it so I was craved of my need to discuss this. So come season 7, I rejoined Tumblr and the Jonsa tag was SO rich in content and meta, detailing all the parallels, how it could happen, why it makes sense and how it would wrap up up the narrative in the most satisfying manner. I’ve never shipped something so hard and wanted it to be canon more than with Jonsa(though canon or not I’m not fussy lol).

I’m gonna outline to you some of the main reasons why I think Jonsa has a strong chance of happening in canon, because they’re really why I ship them so hard, they complement each other perfectly though it’s very easy to miss this. I’m keeping this under a ‘Keep Reading’ tab because I know this will get lengthy. Also, any of my followers/people seeing this, do add on in the comments why you ship jonsa or perhaps leave some links to some of your fav meta’s in the comments for OP to screen through if they feel like it!

This will be lengthy but remember I am trying my best to be brief, hopefully the other Jonsa’s will link some metas/parallel series to give you a better idea - I’m only outlining the backbone of the ship!

The Ashford Tourney Pattern

So it actually began when I came across this theory: The Tourney at Ashford was held in-universe, and I wont go much into detail except to mention that all of the 5 champions in that tourney coincide with the houses of the men Sansa is betrothed/married to (i.e. Sansa’s suitors). It goes

Lyonel Baratheon

Leo Tyrell

Tybolt Lannister

Humfrey Hardyng, and,

Valarr Targaryen.

Now, granted the show’s made some changes but ultimately they’re coming to the same conclusion, and as for book!Sansa(i.e. canon) she’s first betrothed to Joffrey Baratheon, then is promised to Willas Tyrell(changed to Loras on the show), marries Tyrion Lannister, is currently in the works of being betrothed to Harry Hardyng(in the Vale - the Ramsay plot is not hers), and so the logical conclusion would be to complete the pattern by marrying her final suitor, the endgame - a Targaryen. That makes Jon the only candidate viable to her, and yes that sounds ‘out there’ but if you take a look at the narrative, it could make complete sense, so let’s go into how this could logically happen.

Logic

Given the story began with the Starks being the heart of the series, you can only anticipate that the final installation, initially named A Time For Wolves would promise a continuation of the Stark line, and that could come about through Jon and Sansa. They are the only Starks left who’s storyline touches on ideas of fatherhood and motherhood - the only Starks left to ever consider having future children(and weirdly enough where Sansa wants to name her children Bran and Rickon and thinks of a girl who looks like Arya in her dreams of children, Jon wants to name his son Robb - even their dreams complement each other, they’d be rebuilding the Stark family with themselves), the only Starks left to think of restoring Winterfell(and they already go on to do this on the show) etc. When you think of Sansa and how she’s had to fight hard to retain her Stark identity and reclaim it, I cannot imagine GRRM marrying her off to some random lord at the end of the series, when she’s just made it back home. For Jon too, he’s wanted Winterfell, and dreamed of that domestic life as Lord of Winterfell, as a Stark, and Sansa, the Key to the North, could give him that - the same way her marrying Jon who’s actually a prince would be fulfilling her childhood dream as well. They both get what they want in the way they least expect it, something very GRRM-esque. There’s the narrative convenience of R+L=J that would allow for some catharsis once Jon realises he’s not her half-brother, and the convenience of them being the only Starks to not have an established relationship beforehand. But despite that, whenever they do think of the other in the books, it’s never with any resentment, contrary to popular belief, they don’t hate each other(they think of each other fondly, even). It’s something that could work politically in show!verse just as well, say word gets out that Jon’s a Targaryen, the Northern lords would never accept him unless Sansa brokers a political marriage to tame them.

History would also be repeating itself in a poetic way, but done right this time. Jon and Sansa marrying would parallel Ned x Cat, they each parallel them so much and S7 has hammered those visual parallels more than ever. A Stark would be wedding a Tully. And if you embraced Jon as a Targaryen, then they would parallel Rhaegar and Lyanna in a sense too by having a Targaryen prince wed a Stark lady. It also nicely twists what happened to Cersei, where she was supposed to marry a Targaryen prince(Rhaegar) but ends up marrying a Baratheon(Robert) - Sansa was betrothed to Joffrey Baratheon, but would be marrying a Targaryen prince in Jon, which only adds another layer to her being the YMBQ from Cersei’s prophecy if you subscribe to that!

Complementary Storylines

If you take a closer look at Jon and Sansa’s arcs, they tend to echo off of each other, always linking the two through themes, yet the author does a great deal to ensure they’re the last two Starks we ever associate with each other which honestly, would be something he’d do if he meant to pull them marrying as a huge plot twist no one would expect. But thematically, both Jon and Sansa:

start their arcs as naive,

are the Starks most interested in leaving WF - Jon goes to the Wall where he assumes the men are ideal knights, and Sansa journeys South with romanticised ideas of court, and both characters are quickly disappointed.

Jon gets dubbed “crow” for most of his arc, the same way Sansa gets dubbed “little bird/dove”.

Both characters at the same time, have to pretend to be something they’re not around their enemies - Jon going undercover as a Wildling, while Sansa had to blend in with the Lannisters.

They both get dubbed traitor around the same time too, Jon’s seen as a traitor for leaving the Wildlilngs while Sansa gets dubbed traitor/murderer once they thought she poisoned Joffrey as she leaves KL.

Jon who starts off as a bastard, rises to the title of Lord Commander at the Nights Watch the same time Sansa, who starts off as a Lady, gets forced to pose as Littlefinger’s bastard daughter.

It’s the same case on the show, and there’s reason enough to believe Jon and Sansa will be the first Starks to reunite in the books and reclaim Winterfell as well(though the circumstances may be different, it’s heavily foreshadowed in Sansa’s final ASOS chapter).

Complementary Dreams

GRRM has a weird way of connecting these two through their shared dreams. Where Sansa’s final chapter in ASOS heavily foreshadows that she’ll come to rebuild Winterfell with Jon(and she already goes onto do this on the show with Jon), Jon is also the only other Stark to think of reclaiming and rebuilding it, and this occurs in the same book. They’re both weirdly also the only Stark kids to be referred to as the Blood of Winterfell. ASOS(the 3rd book in the series) is also where both these characters start to undergo a sexual awakening(Ygritte’s attempts with Jon, and Sansa coming into her own body and developing).

It’s the same book where Jon considers having a son of his own, thinking he could name him after Robb, and Sansa thinks of giving her betrothed children, noting that in her dreams her children looked like the brothers she had lost and that she wants to name them Eddard and Brandon and Rickon(after the brothers she’s lost). So yes, while that sounds very odd, these two coming together would actually be giving each other what they long for in a family, children who look like named after their pack. Once you remember that book wise, Jon looks like a carbon copy of Ned and Sansa looks like a more beautiful version of Catelyn then you could only assume their children would look very much like the siblings they grew up with too.

It’s actually strange how alike they are and how their arcs tend to echo off of each other but it even comes down to the same romanticised idea of courtship. Sansa remembers the rose Loras gave to her during the Hand’s Tourney, and when met with the prospect of marrying Willas, starts fantasising of sitting with her lord husband in a garden. Lo and behold, a couple chapters later Jon thinks of showing Ygritte Winterfell, and plucking a flower for her from Winterfell’s glass garden. In other words… they would be perfect together.

Their first loves are stand-ins for each other

Ygritte could actually be seen as a foreshadowing for Sansa, namely because so many of her traits are things we’ve come to associate with the latter but GRRM makes a point to keep this out of Jon’s subconscious in his POV chapters. First in the choice of words in her description, her red hair, her blue-grey eyes(sansa’s eyes are blue), but people tend to stop right there and use it as an excuse to mock the idea of Jon x Sansa immediately which honestly, is lazy. It goes deeper than that. Ygritte weeps when she sings and hears the song of the last of giants, and she’s known to favour songs and tales - things we again associate with Sansa. There’s also the instance of her telling Jon Snow that she’s “half a fish” which seems to nod at the fact that Sansa’s basically half a fish too(Half Tully). Strangely, right after Ygritte words out her famous line “You know nothing, Jon Snow,” in Sansa’s chapter, Sansa sees Margaery’s cousins and comments that “they know nothing,” on their naivety. When Jon gets stabbed, the line is again associated with Sansa in his final thoughts:

“Of Sansa, brushing out Lady’s coat and singing to herself. You know nothing, Jon Snow. ”

In Sansa’s case, her first love(crush, really) was a man of the Night’s watch named Waymar Royce(“She had fallen wildly in love with Ser Waymar,”) - who is described as grey-eyed, graceful and slender the same way Jon is first described in AGOT as having grey eyes, being graceful and being slender. The connection between Waymar Royce and Jon Snow is further strengthened in the fact that Waymar(who appears in the very first prologue of the first book) death foreshadows Jon’s death.

Other parallels and easter eggs

There are other ways GRRM’s linked the two in his novels through easter eggs too, for e.g. Sansa calls out for the heroes she knows, calling for Prince Aemon the Dragonknight(from the songs), and then we get a flashback of Jon remembering how he’d play with Robb in the field and pretend to be Prince Aemon the Dragonknight. Sansa also wishes someone would behead Janos Slynt, and Jon goes onto do this in ADWD, unknowingly being the literal hero she asked for.

They both have a strong connection to the pomegranate symbolism, tying them both to the greek mythology of Persephone. And in terms of actual history, Jon and Sansa share heavy parallels with Henry Tudor and Elizabeth of York(who ended up joining their houses through marriage after the War of the Roses of which one of the main conflicts of GoT was based on).

There are plenty of other parallels throughout their chapters, one off instances of both characters put in the same environment or situation, more than I could count really. But what I personally find most odd is how some of their chapters completely mirror each other’s in terms of environment, theme and situation. Look to Jon and Sansa’s first and second ASOS chapters(that come right after the other’s) and you’ll find it’s almost like reading the same chapter twice. GRRM’s a man with words, it’s strange how similarly he words and crafts the environment he puts them in, unless he meant for their chapters to echo each other.

It’s not beyond GRRM

We know from his original outline that he intended for Jon and Arya to be the first Starks to reunite at the wall and struggle for non-platonic and very inappropriate feelings for each other which would torment them until Jon’s parentage is revealed in the final book - sounds not that far from what’s happened with Sansa tbh. Again, you have to remember that yes things have changed from the outline, Sansa was meant to choose Joffrey over her family, bore him children, then die, and none of that happened. Arya was also supposed to do a heck lot more in her storyline but what seems to happened is that GRRM knew he could never have Arya accomplish that much plot in so little time and so he might’ve split initial Arya into a fully fleshed version of Sansa, thus why Sansa and Arya are two sides of the same coin. It would also explain why while Arya looks like Lyanna, both sisters possess her traits and parallel her in their respective ways.

With Jonerys… listen… it’s just a doomed pairing. I was open to the idea but there are one too many kinks in it to have it be endgame not to mention Jonerys on the throne would completely go against the anti-war message ASOIAF has established. Not that doomed pairings have ever stopped me from shipping but they’re just so fundamentally different at this point that the idea of them just doesn’t work anymore(season 7′s rushed tryst was problematic and didn’t sell it to me either).

Additional Thoughts

I could drag on but these I think are some of the main points for me. There are a plethora of other reasons backing this up but yeah I think they have a solid chance. Points aside, I guess I also ship them because there is literally no man who’s a viable suitor for Sansa and her status, that could treat her how she deserves - show!Jon has proved himself worthy, and Sansa has fed him with the well deserved validation he’s needed and craved, acknowledgement of him being a Stark. They work so well together.

Jon is the only man in her arc who canonly has acknowledged that “Winterfell belongs to […] Sansa.” i.e. the only man who wouldn’t marry her for her claim. For a girl who came to the realisation that “No one will ever marry me for love.”(which was followed by Jon’s chapter right after btw), that’s a huge deal. A JonSa endgame would be done so out of political reasons but love would no doubt follow. He is the only man to respect her boundaries and treat her as a human being, to see her for more than just her beauty. You can comment a suitor in her arc she was involved with and I will be able to point out how it’s problematic and wouldn’t work for endgame, how Sansa deserves better. JonSa is my OTP because they genuinely and effortlessly are perfect for each other :)

Trust me I could point out more and more, but hopefully people who see this post link some of their metas/own reasons in the comments in case you want to learn more! Thanks for the ask, this was lovely x

#jonsa #jon x sansa #jonsa fam do contribute <3

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