#We are all fools if we live long enough: Lews Therin

[allxthingsxglxtter]

@lcnelylcves || For Egwene

Lews could admit that he didn't understand this turn of the wheel at all. He knew his soul would go on, living again in another form in the future, but never had it been spoken that one could come back to life in a different time. The wrongness of it made him uneasy, and he'd questioned if this too, was his doing. Some side effect of his hubris in attempting to lock away the Dark one forever, or even the Dark one's work. However, there was no evidence to either of those theories just yet, so he just accepted it as something new he couldn't understand. Trying to live this life as well as he attempted to live his last, even if that had resulted in disastrous results.

He'd been exploring the city when he'd felt...something, as he passed by an inn. Lews had felt similiar sensations before, never knowing what they were but that they shouldn't be ignored, so he followed that odd tug inside. It was midday, so it wasn't too crowded, his eyes scanning the room before falling on a young woman at the counter. It was her he was feeling this tug too, and so the man approached her, Lews pausing just a moment before offering her a soft smile. "Hello miss, I..Apologies, I am not quite sure how to word this, but I have a sense I should speak with you, and I tend not to ignore my instinct. You don't happen to be feeling a similiar tug in your gut, do you? My name is Lews Therin, as I expect an introduction is only fair for this...odd approach."

#We are all fools if we live long enough: Lews Therin

[jackoshadows]

hey, since you read Wheel of Time... I saw someone on Tumblr comparing Dany and Rand al'Thor and iirc even saying that he was an inspiration for GRRM to create her. To which extent do you think this comparison is meaningful and/or deliberate?

So I checked tumblr and could not find the post you are referring to. I did across a post that talked about how much they hated Rand and Dany because they are both conquerors and that conqueror Dany embodies toxic masculinity which is just anti feminist trash nonsense - women can be wartime leaders, can engage in war, can be conquerors, can lead in battle - same as men. Does not mean they have ‘masculine traits’, which WTF? The Indian queens who fought against the British and Portuguese colonialists with swords on horseback and their babies strapped to their back are using masculine traits? Who decides and defines what are masculine and feminine traits?

Anyways, now that my mini rant on that post is over,  I am not sure if GRRM based Daenerys Targaryen on Rand Al’Thor or if the parallels/similarities were intended and deliberate.  But there are indeed parallels between Rand and Dany.

I did find a non-tumblr blog post that compares ASoIaF and WOT and makes a case for GRRM borrowing from WOT and Rand to write Dany if you are interested.

http://www.starsuncounted.com/p/jordan-american-tolkien.html

And it points out a quote from both characters:

A man who trusts everyone is a fool and a man who trusts no one is a fool. We are all fools if we live long enough." - Lews Therin Telamon, The Dragon "It seems to me that a queen who trusts no one is as foolish as a queen who trusts everyone." - Daenerys Targaryen, Mother of Dragons

Firstly of course there are the dragons. Rand Al’Thor is called the Dragon Reborn. He does not have actual dragons, but has powers and the firepower that could be equivalent to that of a dragon. He’s the most powerful character in WOT. Daenerys has actual dragons and she is the most powerful character in GOT.

Both characters have prophecies associated with them and several titles that come with being who they are. Rand/Dragon Reborn for example is called First among servants, Lord of the Morning, Prince of Dawn etc.  while Dany has titles that include breaker of chains, protector of the seven kingdoms, The Unburnt, Princess that was promised etc.

Dany has prophecies that indicate that she may be the princess that was promised/Azor Ahai - the savior of the world against the apocalyptic threat headed towards the wall to destroy the wall. Similarly Rand is prophesied to be the savior of the world from the Dark One.

If we look at some of these prophecies:

When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. - ASoIaF

The Stone of Tear will never fall, till Callandor is wielded by the Dragon’s hand. The Stone of Tear will never fall, till the People of the Dragon come - WOT

You can see some similarities there in terms of dragons and stone.

And then we have Rand slowly, over several books, getting armies and conquering nations on his journey to unite everyone against a common threat - the Dark One. Dany is similarly on a journey, getting armies and getting ready to conquer Westeros - she will probably have united the south by the time she hears of the threat of the Others from the North. Rand here also has some similarities to Jon Snow who understands that an unified Westeros is essential to take on and defeat the Others. 

Now coming to an oft pointed out similarity between the two - Madness.

Lews Therin Kinslayer went mad and broke the world, while Aerys II went mad and started a rebellion that destroyed the Targaryens.

After Dany burned KL on the show, many viewers attributed it to Targaryen madness (because the show did not explain what happened) and I recall a post pointing out that if the show actually wanted to do the mad queen right, they should take a look at how Robert Jordan wrote Rand Al’Thor.

Rand Al’Thor, the Dragon Reborn, is actually going insane, gradually over the course of several books. This is a result of the tainted Saidin that male channelers use. On the other hand, while GRRM links the dragon riding Targaryens to madness, in actuality there are very few Targaryens in the series who are actually mad. Dany is expected to go mad like her father by Westeros at large and by her enemies, but five books in and we see no sign of this madness.

Instead GRRM seems to be using ‘madness’ as a societal expectation that Dany has to overcome. Just as Jon has to overcome the expectations that come with being a bastard, Arya overcoming societal expectations and doing great things  despite being non-conforming, Bran having value despite being a cripple, and Tyrion having value despite being the disabled imp.

So yes, there is madness linked to both dragons, but in one case it’s actual madness and in the other it’s the perception of it.

So those are some of the similarities I can think of. They are both powerful, complex characters that endure a lot of pain and suffering, make morally grey decisions and are damn interesting to read about. And that is indeed a similarity they share. 

Anyways here are the three bad-ass dragons in fantasy:

Rand Al'Thor, Daenerys Targaryen & Elric of Melniboné 

https://www.reddit.com/r/DaenerysWinsTheThrone/comments/cfkywx/the_3_baddestawesomest_dragons_of_fantasy_rand/

#Wheel of Time #Rand Al'Thor #A Song of Ice and Fire #Daenerys Targaryen #Similarities and parallels