#Karlach was sold in 1482 | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

truly-sincerely · 1 month

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Comprehensive Dead Three Timeline

Outdated! I've made a new timeline!

Obviously there's varying amounts of speculation here, but I believe this is as close to a reasonable order of events as can be achieved with current, in-game information

1460s

Enver Flymm sold to Raphael by his parents, renamed Gortash

Gortash learns about the Crown of Karsus while a prisoner of Raphael

1470s

Gortash escapes the House of Hope

Gortash gets involved with black market arms dealing

Durge begins their serial killing spree in Baldur’s Gate

The Emperor dominates Duke Stelmane

1480s

Gortash establishes a cult of Bane in Baldur’s Gate

Gortash approaches Durge about an alliance

Hall of Wonders test mission - Durge gets Bhaalist memorabilia - Gortash gets a bunch of Gondian designs - Durge & Gortash get companionship

Gortash trades Karlach to Zariel for infernal machinery & iron

Baldur’s Gate’s Beloved Ranger statue goes missing

Gortash recruits Franc Peartree to distribute infernal iron weapons

Gortash moves against the Zhentarim & Knights of the Shield

Wyll Ravengard enters pact with Mizora, leaves Baldur’s Gate

1490s

Dead Three made aware of the Crown of Karsus (most likely informed by Gortash) - Gortash becomes Bane’s Chosen - Durge becomes Bhaal’s chosen - Gortash & Durge are instructed to recruit Ketheric

Gortash tells Durge about the Crown of Karsus

They visit Ketheric and learn of the illithid colony under Moonrise

Gortash & Durge visit the House of Hope (for intel on Mephistar?)

Gortash & Durge raid Mephistar - They get the Crown of Karsus - They get the book on the accelerated grand design

Gortash captures the Emperor

Gortash & Durge return to Moonrise - Their identities are kept secret from Ketheric’s people - Durge impresses the Moonrise Gnolls, but not Steelclaw - Ketheric yells at Durge in the throne room for unknown reason

Durge proposes their plan to the Elder Brain who accepts

Raid on the illithid colony - Durge puts the Crown on the Elder Brain - Orin gets Durge alone during the raid & stabs them in the head - Orin tadpoles Durge, making them the first True Soul - Orin leaves Durge in an illithid pod - Orin tells the Chosen she now speaks for the Temple of Bhaal - Orin likely told Gortash, Ketheric, and Balthazar something vague about Durge’s disappearance being related to Durge’s religious crisis and let their imaginations do the rest

1492

Durge breaks out of their pod & is found by Kressa Bonedaughter

Gortash gets weird and intense with unethical experiments - Some futzing to get the tadpoles to consistently remain in stasis - This is when the name ‘True Souls’ gets coined - Extremely questionable fun with brains - Getting the Absolute’s voice sorted out - Tadpoling his parents - Poorly conceived experiments on children & their parents

Isobel is resurrected by the Dead Three

Minsc captured by Absolutists at recruitment rally in the Undercity

Minthara Baenre is recruited by Orin and Ketheric

Gortash has the Iron Throne converted to hold hostages

Gortash presents prototype Steel Watcher to the city council

Jaheira tracks cult to shadow-cursed land, meets Isobel

Elturel falls into Avernus

The brain sends the Chosen dreams about the Astral Prism

Gortash researches the Prism, finds out that Vlaakith has it

Gortash tells Ketheric to send a team to get the Prism - A nautiloid piloted by the Emperor and other illithid is sent - Kressa’s husband arranged for Durge to be on the nautiloid

Gortash deploys Steel Watch in Lower/Outer City

At this point Elturel is no longer in Avernus

Nautiloid picks up Shadowheart & the Prism from Astral Plane

Nautiloid picks up Lae’zel (?)

Nautiloid picks up Gale (?) & Astarion in Baldur's Gate

Nautiloid picks up Karlach & Wyll in Avernus

Nautiloid crashes, game begins

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flymmsy · 1 month

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buddy don't hide it in the tags, tell us more abt your gortash/rugan crackship

*cracks knuckles* okay here we go

Gortash/Rugan Crack Ship Theory

I'm not saying these two were ever lovers, but I do think their timelines line up in a very interesting way that puts them in the vicinity of each other.

Let's start with Rugan.

Quick shoutout first of all to @my-favourite-zhent for posting so many of the datamined lines that I'll mention here. You can also find all of Rugan's lines in this video.

Rugan is in his fifties, as mentioned in the devnotes. Putting him at 52, we can approximate he was born around 1440 DR. ㅤ

We know from the game that he recruited Zarys, so I get the impression that he's been with the Zhentarim for quite a while. In datamined content, he specifically says he's been "Black Network for as long as [he] can remember." ㅤ

Rugan either is a Banite or at least has allegiance to Bane via Bane's affiliation with the Zhentarim. The Zhentarim was founded as a Bane-affiliated organization and has intermittently switched back and forth between Cyric and Bane depending on which time period we're looking at. It is currently, however, lead by The Pereghost who is a follower of Cyric. The switching back and forth between Cyric and Bane has left a lot of followers of both gods within the Zhentarim, and has also led the Zhentarim to really tamp down their religious affiliation over time. BUT, it is really interesting that during a time when it would technically make sense for him to be either unaffiliated or more of a Cyricist, Rugan specifically swears by The Black Hand.

Pivoting to Gortash

There are still a lot of questions about Gortash's timeline. However, The True Life of 'Lord' Gortash gives us some idea. We have no clue how correct or reliable Vance Farnol was, but considering that he died in prison, he was probably on the right track. Interestingly, Vance's outline makes no mention of Gortash's time in the Hells, so we do know it is not 100% reliable - but can be a general reference. ㅤ

After he escaped the Hells, we know Gortash became an Arms Dealer. We also know that over time, Gortash edged out the Zhentarim from their territory, so there was definitely some interaction between Gortash and the Zhentarim. ㅤ

People also disagree on Gortash's age, and that will change some interpretations of this theory. That's fine, but for my purposes, I place him solidly mid-40s. I think this is the age that makes the most sense when you consider his time in the hells, and how long it would have taken him to not only build an arms dealing network that could rival long-established groups, but then to ALSO add in the years to mix in with the patriars. Let's say roughly that he's 45, birth year of 1447 DR, approximately a 7 year age difference between him and Rugan. ㅤ

I personally navigate Gortash's timeline by using approximate markers. ~9-10 years old when sold to the Hells, ~19-20 years old when he escaped the Hells. Then a long period of time that is unmarked and unclear on the order of events, but we know by 1482 DR (when he sold Karlach) he was at the height of his Arms Dealer operation and about to pivot into politics. So from ages 20 - 35, his history is murky, which allows us room to play. ㅤ

We also get nothing on how Gortash became involved with Bane. All we know is that he 'reestablished worship of Bane in Baldur's Gate' and from there we know more about him becoming Bane's Chosen. But how did it all start?

THE INTERSECT

Looking at Gortash's timeline, I think that an extremely likely introduction to Bane for him was through the Zhentarim. This is where I start to work off theory alone, but there's certainly enough in game for this to not be a WILD jump. ‎ㅤ

Post-Hells, Gortash pretty immediately got involved in gang activity (or was involved and returned to it, depending on your interpretation of his timeline) and rose from there. ㅤ

Meaning that Gortash and Rugan were in similar circles for a good chunk of time (Gortash approx. 20-35 y/o and Rugan approx. 27-42 y/o).

MY DELULU

I dont think its out of the realm of possibility for a young, charming, ambitious Enver Gortash to be involved with the Zhentarim in some way and have a thing for rugged, handsome, older Rugan - who could show him a thing or two. This is where everyone's own freedom comes into play with this ship, but I'm just laying the foundation to show that it is actually possible for this to have been a thing.

In my head, it was kind of an ongoing fling - maybe for a few of Enver's younger years. Rugan as the liaison for the Zhentarim, Enver meeting up with him - late nights in the tavern where Enver could pry some interesting Zhentarim backstory from Rugan before having some quick fun together. Enver learns of Bane through exchanging with the Zhentarim, and the rest is history.

SUPER TURBO DELULU

One last really interesting thing I want to mention - a lot was cut out of the game with the Zhentarim. You were supposed to originally find Rugan in Act 3 again, where you would learn that his associates were framed as part of the internal politics the Zhentarim (there are still bits of it we see through Roah Moonglow - she specifically has a note about taking out Rugan as part of her coup.) His caravan was interestingly turned over to the Steel Watch, where Rugan talked his way out by becoming an informant (this is all from the same datamined voicelines) and the rest were hanged.

Sure, maybe it was the information that saved Rugan. Or maybe the man behind the Steel Watch went easy on an old flame.

#okay well this became a lore monster I was not expecting #WOOPS #enver gortash #bg3 #bg3 rugan

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mademoisellegush · 8 months

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its so so so interesting how gortash had personally experienced being traded by someone tasked with taking care of him to a devil (literally sold by his parents to a warlock, who presumably brought him to the House of Hope). and then he turned around and did that to karlach. Karlach, who thought the world of him, in 1482 DR,

It makes that betrayal of our favorite barbarian all the nastier. I do wish we had access to the planned Upper City and see the actual full exploration of her and Gortash's storylines.

(quote from the files under the cut)

#baldurs gate 3 #bg3 spoilers #karlach #enver gortash

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amaranthsynthesis · 4 months

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*cracks knuckles* 1) Given that Ballard has known Gortash for a long time, was he ever aware of Karlach's existence? 2) Also: what was Ballard's relationship with Ketheric like? 3) ALSO: what was Ballard doing down in the bowels of the mind flayer colony when Orin knifed him? Communing with the nether brain or just checking up on the colony's progress? P.S> - you are a talented writer and I love your monk durge. ;_;

I'm glad you're enjoying Ballard and thank you for saying so about my writing <3 <3 <3 I appreciate it so much!!!!!

The Karlach Question

The timeline I've put together, Ballard and Gortash met around 1477/began fucking around 1479--Karlach wasn't sold until 1482. So the question I've been bouncing around is, since Ballard and Karlach must have been around at the same time, how did they avoid meeting each other? Because Karlach DOESN'T recognize Ballard in game, either from afar or as 'that guy my boss was rawdogging between meetings'.

I've got a whole post about it here actually that I think sums up my thoughts very well but like. Gortash keeping Karlach, his new bodyguard, away from his dangerous acquaintance turned business partner turned fuckbuddy (she's out of the picture by the time they actual count as lovers/figuratively married) because he's concerned that there will be an altercation and Ballard will kill her is where I come down on it. Ballard is aware of Karlach, he's aware of most things and of almost EVERYONE around Gortash, he just doesn't care. He doesn't care about people, even the tiefling his hatefuck keeps sending off for kebabs or to pick up his dry-cleaning when he shows up to midday bootycall. And then they become friends later and they realize there was that missed connection, and it does raise the question for Ballard--Karlach is a good person. Her influence didn't change Gortash's behavior, but could it have changed his? Would he have killed her for trying?

Sobs

2. The Ketheric Question

Ballard and Ketheric would have had a terse but professional relationship. Ballard, left to his own devices (outside of Gortash's fuck aura and Sceleritas' madness aura), is by and large a fairly sober person. He is businesslike, and he is able to get things done. He wouldn’t think of Ketheric necessarily as an equal, but there was no real disdain for him either.

Until Ballard figured out you couldn’t kill him.

Then it became a point of fascination, and he couldn’t stop trying. I think there’s some room to explore there.

3. What was Ballard doing in the mind flayer colony?

I think Ballard had gone down to check their progress. He wanted ti see how the colony was progressing, he wanted to see how their work was paying off. Also, I think, he wanted to think about the success of the plan—imagine the future. Where is safer to picture your happier-ever-after than beneath the blanket of an Elder Brains regard? Surely even Bhaal would have trouble peering through that murk?

Ballard went down to think about the question we have to answer at the end of personal quest. Is he, or is he not, still Bhaal’s blood?

#ask meme #ballard #bg3 #hehehehehehehe #:))))

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truly-sincerely · 22 days

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Even More Comprehensive BG3 Timeline

(Now with citations!) Years in (paren) are confirmed, all other lines are approximations. For my own sanity this timeline is based on available in-game information and not the Forgotten Realms at large.

1450s

Enver Flymm born

Gale Dekarios born (1457)

Enver Flymm sold to Raphael by his parents, renamed Gortash

Gortash learns about Crown of Karsus while a prisoner of Raphael

1460s

Karlach Cliffgate born

Gortash escapes the House of Hope

Gale Dekarios summons Tara the Tressym (1467)

Wyll Ravengard born (1468)

1470s

Lae’zel of K’liir born (1470)

Gortash in his Heapside Reavers period

Gortash rebrands as a black market arms dealer

Orin the Red born to Helena and Sarevok Anchev

Durge begins their serial killing spree in Baldur’s Gate (1477)

The Emperor dominates Duke Belynne Stelmane (1479)

1480s

Elminster resurrects Mystra (1480)

Gortash trades Karlach to Zariel for infernal machines & iron (1482)

Baldur’s Gate’s Beloved Ranger statue goes missing (1482)

Duke Abdel Adrian murdered during Returning Day speech (1482) - Bhaal resurrected - Ulder Ravengard replaces Adrian as Grand Duke

Orin kills her mother Helena in self-defense

Gortash recruits Franc Peartree to distribute infernal iron weapons

Gortash establishes a cult of Bane in Baldur’s Gate

Gortash approaches Durge about an alliance

Gortash moves against the Zhentarim & Knights of the Shield

Wyll Ravengard pact with Mizora, leaves Baldur’s Gate (1485)

Dead Three made aware of the Crown of Karsus (most likely informed by Gortash)* - Gortash becomes Bane’s Chosen - Durge becomes Bhaal’s chosen - Gortash & Durge are instructed to recruit Ketheric

Gortash tells Durge about Crown of Karsus (via correspondence)

Hall of Wonders test mission* - Durge gets Bhaalist memorabilia - Gortash gets a bunch of Gondian designs - Durge & Gortash get companionship

1490s

The Chosen visit Ketheric at Moonrise, learn about Illithid colony

Gortash & Durge visit the House of Hope (for intel on Mephistar?)

Gortash & Durge raid Mephistar - They get the Crown of Karsus - They get the book on the accelerated grand design

Gortash captures the Emperor

Durge proposes their plan to the Elder Brain who accepts

Raid on the illithid colony (1491) - Durge puts the Crown on the Elder Brain - Orin gets Durge alone during the raid & stabs them in the head - Orin tadpoles Durge, making them the first True Soul - Orin leave Durge in a pod - Orin declares herself the Chosen of Bhaal

1492

Durge breaks out of the pod & is found by Kressa Bonedaughter

Minsc captured by Absolutists at a recruitment rally in the Undercity

Gortash has Iron Throne converted to hold hostages

Gortash presents prototype Steel Watcher to the city council

Jaheira tracks cult to shadow-cursed land, meets Isobel

Minthara Baenre is recruited by Orin and Ketheric

The Descent, Elturel falls into Avernus happens

Guild Bursar Uktar launders money for Gortash’s Campaign funds

Isobel is resurrected by the Dead Three

The Elder Brain sends the Chosen dreams about the Astral Prism

Gortash researches the Prism, finds out that Vlaakith has it

Gortash tasks Ketheric with sending a team to get the Astral Prism - They send a nautiloid piloted by the Emperor and other illithid - The Elder Brain lets the Emperor slip its leash - Magthew Budj arranges for Durge to be on the nautiloid as well

Gortash deploys Steel Watch in Lower/Outer City

At this point Elturel is no longer in Avernus

First Druid Halsin captured by goblins

Nautiloid picks up Shadowheart & the Prism from Astral Plane

Nautiloid picks up Lae’zel

Nautiloid goes to Baldur’s Gate, picks up Gale & Astarion

Nautiloid goes to Avernus, picks up Karlach & Wyll

Nautiloid crashes, (20 Eleasis, 1492)

Some helpful links:

A page from Sarevok’s book: Sarevok - (Murder tribunal)

Accelerated Grand Design: Gortash -

An Offer: Gortash - (Peartree basement)

Aquatic Labor: Gortash - (Flymm’s Cargo Basement)

Baldur’s Gate Temple of Bhaal: Yanthus - (Gortash’s Office)

Balthazar’s Notes: Balthazar - (Necrotic laboratory)

Clasped Book: Balthazar - (Balthazar’s chambers)

Devil’s Fee Observer’s Report**: Himberloo - (Nine-Fingers’ office)

Elder Brain Domination: Ketheric/Yanthus - (Ketheric’s Room)

Enhanced Weapons - Sales Ledger: Peartree - (Peartree basement)

Experiment on Cruor: Orin - (Temple of Bhaal)

How To Build a Watcher: deceased Gondian - (Steel Watch foundry)

Journal of Enver Gortash: Gortash - (Gortash’s Office)

Magical Histories: Volume 2: The Spellplague: unknown - (Sorcerous Sundries)

Memoir Notes with Recent Addenda: Gortash - (Gortash’s office)

Missive from Gortash: Gortash - (Ketheric’s room)

Missive from Ketheric: Ketheric - (Moonrise, 2nd floor)

Mistress of Souls’ Research Log: Kressa - (Mind flayer barracks)

My Gratitude: Gortash - To Peartree (Peartree basement)

Next Steps: Gortash - (Gortash’s office)

Prayer for Forgiveness: Durge - (Necrotic laboratory)

Scrapbook of Letters: Gortash/Durge - (Flymm’s Cobblers)

Special Operations - Infernal Arms: Uktar -

Studies of the Elder Brains: Gortash/Yanthus - (Gortash’s Office)

Suspended Ceremorphosis: Gortash/Yanthus - (Tadpoling center)

Test Mission with Gortash: Durge - (Temple of Bhaal)

The Astral Prism Heist: Gortash - (Gortash’s office)

The Dukes of Baldur’s Gate: unknown - (Baldur’s Mouth/Peartree’s house)

The Grand Design: Gortash/Yanthus - (Mind flayer colony)

The True Life of ‘Lord’ Gortash: a skeleton - (Wyrm’s Rock Prison)

The Ultimate State: Gortash - (Gortash’s office/Flymm’s Cobblers)

*an in-game contradiction between Gortash and Durge. See: ‘Test Mission with Gortash’ and ‘Memoir Notes with Recent Addenda’. I’ve placed it after, but there’s also a legitimate argument to be made that Gortash and Durge met and became allies much earlier, possibly around the same time as Gortash’s betrayal of Karlach

**no link cuz the bg3.wiki doesn’t have it??

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