#JUST being subversive while writing the story doesnt mean you make a good story being subversive =/= being good

[pandoratheprocrasticreator]

no by all means keep judging cartoon villains solely by if they get redeemed in the end. i know some of us like to talk about other stuff like characterization or entertainment value or nuance as something that makes a good villain. but i think the only thing that actually matters is if the villain ends up on good terms with the protagonist at the end. all the Good TM cartoons with Good TM creators make the villains die a Horrible Death for being Abusers or whatever. and all the Bad TM cartoons with Bad TM creators Forgive Fascists by not making them get publicly executed by the 14 year old protagonist in front of the 8 year old target demographic.

i mean im so glad that more cartoons nowadays are subverting the psyop to support fascists that a few queer artists and queer shows definitely invented in 2017. there are so many popular cartoons doing that. it's almost like there are more properties killing their villains now and in the past than there ever were of properties that didn't do this. and it's almost like whether the villain gets redeemed at the end is more about the context of the story and its themes leading up to a narratively sound decision.

but you know. a few queer shows made by trans ppl were popular and they didn't kill their fascists and even had the gall to make them nuanced while also looking into the harm they did. guess it's trendy to forgive your abusers now because like two cartoons said so. out of like 40 other similarly high profile works that just straight up hit their villains with a bus or smth. by all means. keep heaping praise onto that one show about how they "let their villain just be evil" instead of talking about anything more interesting. that's so subversive, everyone's doing it!

#shut up pandora #check off my 'monthly rant about the treatment of the creators of steven universe and she ra' #this is because of the 'praise' ive been seeing for belos btw #yes i love his panache i love how much he fucks up everything and i love how hes beyond redemption #thats not because he was Born Evil and has always Been Evil??? #ppl who show baby belos going out of his way to make calebs life a living hell and evelyn Rescuing this poor blond boy from his Evil Brothe #i am sending so many bad vibes at you rn #he isnt a good villain bc dana terrace decided to be 'subversive' by not redeeming belos #JUST being subversive while writing the story doesnt mean you make a good story being subversive =/= being good #hes a good villain because while his decisions are dogshit we can understand why he made them on an emotional level #and since gravity falls seems to be the golden standard for modern cartoons i guess #bill cipher also isnt a good villain bc hes evil and they killed him #bill is a good villain bc hes entertaining in the threat he poses #what makes a character a good villain is about stuff they do while theyre being a villain #dont just sum it up with 'duhhh they killed them at the end so its good' thats entirely dependent on the story! #anyway this is specifically about modern western cartoon fandoms #if youre telling me to watch shows that arent modern western cartoons or like. read a book then know that i do that already #this stuff isnt as big of a discourse topic in those circles but im talking about this specific circle rn

[groundramon]

Do you have a list of like top 5 tv shows? (Cartoons and anime included)

!!! Yes I do, actually!

I’ve actually thought about doing a YouTube video about this in the past, and while I do want to do list-like videos (and I already have at least one in mind) in the future, I put off doing this one because it actually…depends greatly on where certain shows I currently like are headed because some currently-airing shows would be on this list if they hit their full potential, but who knows if they’ll hit their full potential. Also I always split anime and cartoons into two categories because I always had a hard time picking otherwise xD But I do have some semblance of a list, and I adore talking about this kind of stuff, sooo:

5. Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood

This spot is kind of a three-way tie between Voltron, Bojack Horseman, and FMAB, all for extremely different reasons. So consider Voltron and Bojack my honorable mentions. But while I believe Bojack’s best is honestly some of the (if not the) best out there, and if Voltron promises through on what they’ve promised it will easily skyrocket up this list, Bojack’s worst is everything I hate about Hollywood and Voltron just has too many holes at the moment.  FMAB has the best of both worlds because it has great animation like Voltron, doesn’t have any of Bojack’s bad kind of moments, and doesn’t have many holes in it.  (Another honorable mention goes to BNHA, but like Voltron, I just don’t think it has had enough time to develop all the way. Unlike Voltron, it doesn’t really have any holes, but I do have a problem with how strictly it adheres to cheesy super heroes of the past.)

BUT onto FMAB itself. God cmon, its FMAB, do I really need to elaborate why its so great? The characters are compelling, their motivations are powerful and interesting. I could write an essay examining Ed’s character alone, because he has so many interesting motivations and morals that seemingly conflict with his angry disposition, and I don’t even like Ed that much. The story is exciting - there’s basically no filler, and it almost moves too fast at points. I do have problems with the show - as I said, it goes too fast. The only two deaths in the season happen in the first 12-15 episodes of the series, and although I think that’s because the original FMA animated those scenes already, it still fucks with the pacing of this show. Additionally, despite Lust, Gluttony, and Envy all being revealed before, the show introduces a completely new villain - Greed - to introduce the homunculi. And then they kill Lust - the presumed leader of the first three introduced homunculi?? Idk man, the show barrels in a completely different direction way too quickly. But other than that, its a great show. The only reason it isn’t higher is because I’m a biased shit towards other good shows.

4. Teen Titans

Speaking of being a biased shit, idk if it shows or not, but I have a HUGE soft spot for corny kids shows that try to give kids bad laughs and dark/relatable storylines, or rather, have a heart while doing so. Its not so much that I like a balance of comedy and darkness in my shows - although that’s a good thing, I eat pure angst up and I’m all-for pure comedy shows that have the aforementioned heart (ie we bare bears, another good show not on this list) - its just specifically corny pun-ridden teen/tweeny-feeling shows/games that actually have a decent story underneath that get me. (Also my sense of humor aligns much more with shitty teen lingo and puns than modern cartoon humor that’s considered “good”. Like I find Teen Titans 10x funnier than I’ve ever found Steven Universe. I’m a 90s kid at heart even tho I wasn’t alive in the 90s)

But the biggest impact of this show for me was the heart and the plot. The silly moments made me laugh, sometimes iromically and sometimes unironically and sometimes I wasn’t sure how, but it was the story that really gripped me. The first season’s overarching plot for Robin is honestly one of the most compelling things I’ve seen in kids cartoons…period. Its dark, its unique, its a subversion of such a simble and broad trope. Sure it had a nice cheesy ending but Robin actually saves the day through INTELLIGENCE, something he always had. No other Teen Titans ending did that, but I digress.

And god, do not even get me started on Terra’s arc. Just because Robin’s was the most well-structured arc doesn’t mean his was the most emotional. I was fucking distraught after Terra’s season. Those memes weren’t a joke, I legitimately cried right in front of my mom. IT WAS SO OBVIOUS, BUT IN MY BLIND LOVE, I MISSED ALL THE SIGNS… and god, even when she comes back, even when she’s given a happy ending, she manages to make me cry AGAIN. I never, ever thought I could cry over a character like Beast Boy, but she made me do it. I didn’t even cry when Sokka’s girlfriend died, but this really, really got to me. Once for personal attachment, and the second time because…the finale is so good. Literally its Bojack levels of deep, emotional, and realistic, and this was the ending of a fucking kids show. What the fuck. To this day I still get emotional whenever something reminds me of her arc. Which brings me to my next series…

3. Cybersix

Hi so did I mention Cybersix is really good? Because Cybersix is really good.  I’m not even done with it but yeah, I love this show.  It’s got an amazing art style, great animation, an intriguing story…I have a feeling I’m gonna be really disappointed when it ends because I’ll want to know what happens next so badly.  I like the characters, I like the aesthetic, I like the old-timey music that dates this cartoon so wonderfully, I even like the romance between Lucas and Cybersix/Adrian!  How’d you make me do that.  Oh yeah, because it’s not hard to get me to care about a mutually rewarding relationship that’s gradually built up through a friendship, then an aesthetic attraction, then presumably a relationship but idk yet, where both parties care about one another and their boundaries and have gotten along well since the start.  I forgot.  (I could nitpick that Lucas doesnt have the same buildup for the relationship as Cybersix [its complicated, basically he’s friends with Cybersix’s alternate persona Adrian but he’s in a relationship with Cybersix, and he doesnt know theyre the same person] but I’m not gonna.)  It’s just…a good show man.  @ hollywood, reboot THIS you cowards.  Stop rebooting shit nobody wanted a new version of and reboot shows that were ended to quickly.  Actually dont reboot Cybersix because the only animation studios that would be able to do it any justice are Studio Mir and anime studios, and whoever owns the current copyright to Cybersix would probably be okay using flash for it

2. Digimon Adventure (with a honorable mention to Digimon Tamers)

You can rip my love for the entire Digimon franchise from my cold, dead hands.  I’m sincerely surprised any show passed up my love for this show.  If/when the currently airing series in Japan gets brought over here, I’ll watch it, even though Digimon has kind of abandoned what made it so great in the first place.  But hell, even Fusion was enjoyable - the second arc, from what I remember, was pretty dark and interesting (im still mad they got rid of the two best characters tho) - and the only reason I disliked Data Squad so much is because of Marcus (that and it doesnt have anything else that’s absolutely stunning, in fact from a technical standpoint Marcus is the best thing about the show).

But there’s a reason I put Digimon Adventure here and not the entirety of the Digimon franchise.  Digimon Adventure is what started it all.  No Digimon season has as much heart in it as the original.  Sure the animation improves each season, sure Tamers is probably better story-wise on a technical level, but I dont think any season matches the raw charm of the original.  It was so charming, in fact, that what was supposed to be a 13-episode miniseries evolved into a massive franchise that’s still beloved to this day.  Hell, there’s still content being released for the 8 Digidestined of this season!  It’s right alongside Pokemon, Invader Zim, Hey Arnold, and all these other beloved 90s/early 2000s cartoons that are being revived in recent years, and I think that says a lot.

I wasn’t even alive when Digimon Adventure was airing, but I loved the Digimon games I had played so much that I went out of my way to watch it.  And I…loved it.  Sad as it may be, it was the greatest TV show I had seen at the time.  Growing up in the late 2000s watching only Nickelodeon and CN was not a good period to grow up in, and I never saw Avatar as a kid.  By the time the 2010s had rolled around, I had mostly given up on cartoons, and besides, they were all fugly.  I still tried to watch some, but just…the humor didn’t grip me, they seemed dumb, and they weren’t pleasant to look at.  (Okay the main shows I’m vaguing about are Adventure Time and Regular Show, as well as whatever Nickelodeon was doing but I begrudgingly put up with Nickelodeon for the most part because I preferred Nick and I never knew what else to watch)  Then Digimon came around, and hol-y-shit.  The characters were like nothing I had ever seen before, the storylines engaging and interesting.  Sure it was cheesy, but there was 95% less fart jokes than the average cartoon, a good story, and actually relatable characters that actually go through hardships and actually change for the better!

Digimon Adventure has been and always will be proof to me that no matter what you are, no matter what your show is, you can make a good show out of it.  If you get people who care, who can make relatable characters, who can come up with an interesting story, you can make a good show.  Digimon Adventure is basically a big long toy commercial, and yet its better than lots of shows that dont even have merchandise - and its also better than a lot of shows that have merchandise now, but weren’t created to sell toys in the first place.  I just.  Love it a lot.

Also, the reason I specifically chose Digimon Adventure, outside of having a personal attachment to it since it was always my favorite, is because Tamers hecking scared me as a kid and I’ve never gotten over how creepy the last arc is.  Like it’s good, but it still scared me.

Honorable mentions: Bojack Horseman, Voltron: Legendary Defender, We Bare Bears, Gravity Falls (thats a big one, it would definitely be on this list if I had 10 spots, and will gladly take the 6th spot if Voltron doesnt follow through or Bojack goes south), Over the Garden Wall,  the aforementioned Digimon Tamers ,and Infinity Train might be #2 or at least #3 if it wasnt just a single episode l m a o

1. A tie between Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra

HI SO YEAH if you didnt expect this then you dont know me //BRICKED

Before I explain both, I want to be very clear that I’m not counting them as a single entity.  No, I just cant pick between them.  They’re two extremely different shows, and I actually agree with people who say ATLA is overall a more-rounded show.  Problem is, I watched both during a period of my life where politics and darkness make an extremely interesting show for me (aka the current period of my life) and thus its a very biased and “nostalgic” pick, just like Digimon Adventure.  Had I watched these shows when they were airing, I dont know if LOK would even be on this list.  Heck Digimon adventure probably wouldnt be on this list since ATLA would’ve held the crown for my favorite show for all those years.

They both have amazing animation and solid writing, but that’s about all they have in common in my eyes - even though they share the same world.

Avatar: The Last Airbender is a kids show.  Through and through, its a kids show.  That’s not an insult in the slightest though; no, the fact that they can make something so sophisticated and enjoyable that still clearly appeals to children is really a testament to their skills.  Many kids shows that try to take on heavier/darker stories feel like completely different shows when they try to do that - shows that arent intended for kids.  Voltron and SU are the most notable examples of that, but even LOK has a little bit of that (but in LOK’s case, its the entire show, so I kinda give them a pass lol)  Other shows do it okay (Gravity Falls) but really the only show I’ve ever seen match Avatar’s perfect balance of comedy and seriousness is Bojack, which isn’t a kids show so it has an advantage over Avatar.

Avatar’s world is fanciful and larger than life.  I’m so sad that I watched Avatar and LOK after my fanfiction days; I would’ve loved to spend nights thinking about a potential Avatar story, complete with my own Avatar and original cast.  I could put it before Avatar, after LOK, who knows? but it would’ve been so much fun.  Hell I HAVE thought about Avatar stories, but I obviously dont have much thought up on any of my potential ideas.

The pacing of Avatar is golden.  How a show wish such good pacing got through Nickelodeon, I dont know, but whatever deal allowed Avatar to go on for three seasons and then end was a once-in-a-life-time deal (as evident by what happened to Korra).  Somehow this show came out almost completely perfect, with few or no flaws.

This is the pinnacle of children’s entertainment, in my opinion.  This is proof that there’s no excuse for the garbage that makes up 90% of children’s entertainment.  The standard doesn’t have to be this, since this is the best, but this show is proof that we need to raise the standard.  I wish executives actually gave a shit about quality; if they did, maybe we could get mostly good shows instead of mostly bad shows.

If most shows were half as good as Avatar, the average show would be gorgeously-animated, smartly-written, and really good, even if it had a flaw here and there.  If most shows were half as good as Avatar, Steven Universe would be the average instead of a godsend.

If I someday, somehow make a show that’s 2/3rds as good as Avatar, I’ll officially be a good writer.  I’d love to make tons of shows just as good as Avatar, but hey, I cant get TOO cocky now lol

Now for The Legend of Korra.  Korra has slightly better animation (god i love studio mir) and different but still intriguing worldbuilding.  I know a lot of people found the political bs to be annoying, but I actually found it quite intriguing.  Avatar did a little bit of exploring moral gray areas and playing with politics, but Korra just goes all-out.  I wish the first season’s morality could’ve been a little grayer, but even then, the politics were still interesting.  And god, that one scene in the first season finale, the murder-suicide…that’s still a really powerful scene.  The entire finale would’ve been super powerful were it not for everything resetting by the end of it, but hey, they basically did the same thing in season 3!

Holy shit though, season 3.  An on-screen strangling.  Someone exploding themselves to death.  And then the finale’s fight.  The finale’s fight. The finale of season 3 is one of the most intense things I’ve seen…ever.  The atmosphere in that fight is just…so good - combined with the animation and choreography, its just amazing.  You can almost feel every hit, you actually feel concern for Korra, you’re legitimately concerned for her life.  And you know what?  You should’ve been!  Because she almost dies, and she has to suffer the consequences of that.  The fourth season has a time gap in-between, but even then, she spends episodes trying to fully recover.

In my opinion, the only thing making Korra a kids show is Milo.  I’m certain they put him in there because otherwise, it wouldn’t have been allowed to be called a kids show.  It’s dark, its intelligent, its beautiful, and it’s going to go right over most kid’s heads.  As a kids show it does kind of fail; it just doesn’t really appeal enough to them.  Once you’re old enough to understand, say, Naruto or Dragon Ball you should be okay, but ATLA appeals to all ages while Korra really needs a certain maturity in its audience to be understood and to not scare its audience.

They’re just both. so good

(thanks for the ask!!!)

#stormy answers #long post #this took forever to answer but it was w o r t h #i actually have a script for this video now lmao so i could make this video now if i wanted to

[tumblunni]

Ever have a moment where you just spontaneously get inspired for a sad story idea and start weeping at the torment you have unleashed upon yourself? I have no idea why this happens to meeeeeeeee

I just suddenly had the idea of this unusual love triangle subversion where it starts off looking like the cliche of two guys fighting over a girl, but in the end the two guys hook up with each other instead. Like a big holy shit realization that their rivalry was stemming from repressed feelings, and how much they genuinely enjoyed being ‘rivals’ and kept seeking any chance to ‘fight’. And how their ‘love’ for the girl might have been kind of cruel and thoughtless, they were treating her like a prize, like her only purpose was to be won so the other guy would lose. So they could gloat. And there wasnt much genuine feeling there beyond a superficial attraction, and it was cruel to lead her on thinking you were dating her because you liked her, rather than because you can boast to your friends cos she’s sexy. So it’d be a story of these two guys getting a lot of character development and softening up both towards each other and towards her, forming a genuine friendship with her and apologising for all the ways they’d been cruel while dating her. Even though she doesnt ‘win’ either boy in the end, she has just as much of a victory as they do! She ends the story gaining a lot of self confidence and being able to recognise and escape an unhealthy relationship while also gaining two great wingmen who’re gonna support her towards finding her true love someday. ^_^

But then my thoughts kinda added a sadder potential aspect to the thing cos I was like WHAT IF INEXPLICABLY THROW GHOSTS IN I have a perfectly good comedic/cute romance concept and I had to add tragedy! Alas! :P

The weird idea was that maybe one of the male characters is actually the ghost of the girl’s former boyfriend? So she’s trying to date this new guy and he gets comically tormented by the clingy ghost, thus beginning their rivalry! But eventually it gets sad because the closer everyone gets to their happy ending character development, the closer ghost boy gets to fading away. And every other part of the plot would be even more emotional if one of the people in the equation is dead, yknow? Like... having to realize that your dead boyfriend didn’t really love you, and his ghost is floating nearby trying to apologise but you can’t see him :( And then all the misunderstandings could be much worse because they have to be relayed back and forth through these spirit contact methods. Itd be much harder to reach that big epiphany that "oh shit I’m actually gay and was in denial, and I got accidentally into that relationship with her because I was trying to prove I was straight, but I never realized that I genuinely care about her as a friend and I hurt her by not being honest. I just wanted to give her a fake boyfriend that’d be the dream boyfriend she always wanted, because I care about her. But I didnt know it’d hurt her far more than being alone, and we might lose that friendship we once had..." "...also I AM DEAD and this is getting INFINATELY MORE DIFFICULT” (Also incidentally I was thinking the other male character actually is bisexual, I dont want to make any accidentaly ‘bisexuals are just in denial’ statement that I don’t actually believe, just cos I messed up writing this plot. Yknow??) BUT YEAH IT GETS DEPRESSING Cos he manages to come to peace with himself and apologise and repair his friendship with his ex-girlfriend, and maybe even start a bit of a relationship with this rival boy... and then he passes away. He has one big happy day for the first time in years since he died, he solves all of his lingering regrets, and everyone knows this means he won’t be able to remain in this world but it would be cruel to make him stay sad just so he stays here. And maybe a dramatic depressing argumentative episode where everyone actually considers doing that, just because they dont want to lose him a second time, but they have to accept that it isn’t right. And.. like.. the whole time ghost boy is trying to deny his feelings for rival boy, feeling like its a betrayal to want to date him. Its betraying his friend/ex-girlfriend, and its also betraying this man because he knows he cant be the perfect boyfriend he deserves. This time he knows its wrong to lie, and he cant do it again. He cant lie that he’ll be able to be there, he can’t lie that he can be just like a living person. They can’t even hold hands... So it started off with him trying to keep this boy away from his ex-girlfriend, and now its changed to him trying to force them to get together. Sometimes comical, sometimes depressing. He’s scared of leaving the two of them alone and lonely, and he’s convinced they totally have a spark there, even though the two of them have already talked it through and realized they’ve lost that spark, and he really wants to be with ghost boy. Like.. one of them doesn’t love her because he’s gay, one of them doesn’t love her because its just natural that even if you’re attracted to both men and women you won’t be attracted to every man and woman. And they both love her more as a friend and its so hard for them to actually attain that happy friendship because they’re now stuck trying to ship each other with her. BUT YOU’RE ALIVE, YOU COULD MAKE HER HAPPY! BUT YOU’RE HER OLD BOYFRIEND, HER TRUE LOVE!! An angst-filled love triangle that hopefully wouldnt be as annoying since all the angst is entirely new angst compared to the usual cliches! AND THEN IN THE ENDING HE PASSES AWAY AND WE ALL CRY It’s just him being able to make sure the two of them will be okay when he’s gone, and for the first time they can see his spirit and he’s this contented angelic figure that he was never able to be in life. And this love triangle just ends with two people alone who aren’t dating, but they’ve gone through all this character development and become happy in their own skin, and forged a friendship everlasting! So even though they’re left both loving and mourning the same man, they know they’ll be okay. They had their will to live restored by him, and they want to have a long and happy life so he’ll be happy if he’s still watching over them. Even if he could never have his happy ending. All they can do is hope that there’s some sort of afterlife, so he can have his chance to start a new life too, just like he gave them this new life... And even though both of them were unable to date this poor ghost boy and their relationship together didnt work out, its optimistic that this won’t be their last chance at love they’ll ever find. And it’ll be much easier to find happiness as long as they stick together as friends and act as the superb wingman that that ghost boy always was! And honestly even if they never find someone they love more than him, its not like life is only worthwhile if you have romantic love. The ghost was very happy that he could kiss the boy he had a crush on for the first and last time, but it was equally important that he was able to apologise to his best friend and become comfortable with his own identity. That’s what helped him pass on. And that’s what he hopes these two can find someday, even if they end up just as unlucky in love as he was... A very bittersweet tragicomedy, yeah. I dunno why I had this dumb idea aaaaa

#dumb random game ideas #aaaa #why am i crying over characters so undeveloped that theyre just called ghost boy regular boy and friend girl