#I'm not saying Asgard isn't problematic

[lucianalight]

Loki is white. He is played by white actor, he is written by a white people and he is treated by the creators and audience as white. If he was supposed to be coded as a person of color then it is done poorly bc it is not right for him to be played by a white guy or his characterization to be written by mostly white people. You cannot have character coded as person of color without actual people of color involved. The actual representation of POC in Thor movies are Heimdall, Hogun and Valkyrie, they are the characters in which POC can see themselves.

Anon, all of your points are addressed and answered by the two recent long posts(1, 2) that you're referring to. Still I'm going to explain this again in another way.

The main problem of this discourse is confusing in-universe and out-universe point of view.

What is white race? A simplified answer is anyone with European ancestry. Where is Loki from? Is he from Earth? Does he have European ancestry? Or is he from a fictional planet called Jotunheim? So can he even be explained by definitions belonging to racial terms specific to Earth and its history? What about Heimdall and Valkyrie? Do they have African roots(technically all the human race have African roots but you know what I mean)? Or are they from a fictional planet called Asgard? What about Hogun? Is he from East Asia or a fictional planet called Vaneheim?

So if we can't use the terms belonging to Earth's racial history, why we can say Loki is poc coded? The key element here is "coded". We aren't saying Loki is poc. Because that again is a racial Earth term.

There's a trope in fiction called Fantastic Racism, as in racism in fictional worlds. That's where coding and metaphors work. Which realm conquered nine realms, stole their treasures, their source of power to control them? And its king went so far to have a puppet king in one of those conquered realms? Asgard. So we have the fictional representation of colonial power. Which realm was conquered, left in ruins and vilified? Jotunheim. So Jotuns are metaphors for colonized people which in turn makes Loki a poc coded character as the prince of a colonized realm, who is taught to hate his race and raised to be their puppet king for the colonial power. This is the in-universe reason for the coding because it is a metaphor. Loki being part of a colonized race also was pointed out by a Native American, a poc who could see the parallels between what happened to Loki and their people. 

About whether it is ok if a white person plays poc coded, I think Fantastic Racism is one of the few tropes that they can. Because do we know exactly what alien races look like? Do we have any examples of realistic issues of racism and its reasons in alien worlds? Why then should they resemble exactly as the races who were victims of racism on Earth? This is a trope that since it is about fiction can have white people play the poc coded characters or the oppressed race. Because we aren’t going to show or represent an irl culture or ethnicity. Another explanation for Loki being played by a white actor is that he is literally white washed by Odin. And it can also be a metaphor for white passing. Some of us are white passing. My country is a multi-ethnicity and there isn't a single stereotypical look to us. We have people who look white, look like other Asian ethnicities and we also have black people and still all of us are poc. Another example of poc coded race in MCU is in one of the seasons of AOS where we are shown that in the future Krees enslave the human race. And for Fantastic Racism the plot of Ronan wanting to wipe out Xandar is another example. It’s problematic when a white person plays a canonically poc character who is actually from or represents an irl culture/ethnicity. Examples in MCU are white washing Mandrain and The Ancient One.

I also don't agree that a poc can't be written by white people. You don't have to belong to a group to be able to write about them(see also this post). Although there must be enough research done about their culture and also stereotypes to avoid, for it to have a good portrayal. And you also have to ask them for their opinion on the subject.

But I agree with you that in case of Loki and Jotuns the poc coding is done poorly. But not because he is played by a white actor. Because the whole race is villain coded in the story. They are shown as evil savage monsters. This is even worse in comics. I mean look at them.

Do I need to explain why they are poc coded and villain coded? This is what makes it problematic. Using specific cultural symbols as a villain coded race.

Another problematic aspect in Thor movies when it comes to race, from out-universe point of view is how Vanir, who resemble East Asians, are living in tents while they are a developed magical race in comics. Valkyrie, played by a black woman, was a slave trader for a thousand years. We don’t have the proof of colorism in Asgard from an in-universe point of view. Still it was a distasteful choice. Just like how the origin story for Maximoff twins in MCU, working for Hydra, is distasteful because they’re Jewish in comics.

Heimdall, Valkyrie and Hogun are representations of diversity in Thor movies. But their story arcs don't revolve around the issue of race. While Hogun is technically from another colonized realm, he doesn’t face racial prejudice in the story. Heimdall and Valkyrie are literally part of the colonial power. Moreover, poc is an umbrella term. As a poc I don’t feel represented by them because I don’t belong to their ethnicities. In fact there isn’t a single representation of my ethnicity in MCU(I don’t particularly take issue with it though). The only character/story arc I could draw parallels with my country’s history and some political issues was Loki/Jotuns. Ironically one of the reasons is how the narrative and Asgardians portray them as villains. Because Hollywood has a habit of showing my people/culture as savages and in one case literally monsters. So I could relate to Jotuns.

And that’s the beauty of the Fantastic Racism trope. Since it’s a metaphor many people from different races/ethnicities can relate to the oppressed group. And it can be applied to instances of racism when there is a different narrative than western definition of racism.

#wow this got long #poc coded loki #loki #jotun loki #asgard's colonization #anon #messages