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phantomflower42 · 5 years

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Warriors OCs Relationships: My Take, ThunderClan Edition

Let’s face the facts: creating good Warriors OCs in general can be a nightmare. The Warriors series by Erin Hunter is about four (later five) groups of feral cats called Clans that live in the wild. They are frequently in competition with one another, but share much of the same culture and traditions.

Part of what makes Warriors OCs a nightmare is that they have a shorter lifespan than humans do. Feral cats only live around two to five years on average. That number can be bumped up for Clan cats because they have medicine cats to treat their injuries and illnesses, but only a couple of cats have reached thirteen years old or above.

The books span a long time period with an Allegiances listing the cats of each Clan in every book. This equals hundreds of Warriors characters in total. There are many long family trees. The family trees have become tangled with several relatives mating with each other. It’s one of the downsides of the Clan cats being forbidden from mating outside their Clan.

This guide goes to Lost Stars, the first book of the seventh series of Warriors novels. This mostly deals with children and descendants. However, if the parents or siblings of a certain character are not known, I will address that as well. How family members of each line interact in canon will be noted.

I will keep things simple by listing one main cat per lineage. Sections will include a cat’s parents, siblings, children, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, and cousins if their family tree goes far enough. I am excluding cats from the prequel Super Editions and novellas; they will be found under a related character’s name from the main books if they are listed at all.

The exception will be for characters that were named in the main books, but received screen time in side stories later, like Rosetail, her brother Thistleclaw, and Mapleshade. Characters will be split by Clan.

Some characters are covered under multiple sections. Second and onward mentions of a certain character’s family relationships will redirect to where they were first covered.

Any information about Warriors family trees comes from the Warriors Wiki.

(Warning: With the massive amount of characters to cover, this next section will be very long!)

ThunderClan

Bluefur/star: Bluefur/star and her family have had it hard. Her sister died as a young mother, her mother was killed just a few days after she was apprenticed, her father was neglectful of her and her sister, she had to give up her kits so she could become the ThunderClan leader, one of her kits died on their way to their new home, and she suffered from months of cognitive decline before she gave her life to save ThunderClan from a pack of dogs. It’s a miracle she has any descendants at this rate.

Any cats coming directly from Bluefur/star’s line will have to come from her daughter Mistyfoot/star’s son Reedwhisker. Mosskit died on the way to RiverClan, Stonefur does not seem to have had a mate or kits before his death, and Reedwhisker’s littermates died at young ages. Maybe Stonefur’s love life or lack there of could be explored in stories along with his mate’s reaction to the TigerClan mess. Reedwhisker seems like he might not mind romance so long as it’s a fellow RIverClan cat.

Bluefur/star could also have indirect descendants through her nephew Whitestorm. His daughter Sorreltail went on to have six kits; three of them survived long enough to have children of their own. Sorreltail’s grandson Fernsong had kits with Ivypool later on.

Bluefur/star and her sister Snowfur were close-knit save for some arguments about Thistleclaw. Their mother Moonflower was a kind and devoted mother until her death. Stormtail was a poor parent that barely gave his daughters attention. He started romancing Dappletail before Moonflower died! Bluefur/star was so bonded to Whitestorm that he was one of the few cats she trusted in her last days.

Her relationship with her children is more complicated. She loves them, but Mistyfoot/star and Stonefur hated her at first when they found out the truth. Bluefur/star harbors guilt for Mosskit’s death, though the latter does not hold her at fault for it.

Mistyfoot/star and Stonefur were very close. Mistyfoot/star grieved heavily when he was killed. She felt deep pain when having to bury her kits Perchkit, Primrosepaw, and Pikepaw. Her surviving kit Reedwhisker is shown to have a good relationship with her when he shows up in the books. Mistyfoot/star even picked him as her deputy.

Whitestorm is only mentioned alongside his mate Willowpelt a few times. They patrolled together near the end of Into the Wild. He looked upon her proudly after she announced her pregnancy in Forest of Secrets. That is the extent of their shown relationship.

Whitestorm’s relationships with his kits are unfortunately not shown much on screen. The only exception is him informing Fireheart/star that Sorreltail had woken up after Darkstripe poisoned her with deathberries. Sootfur, Sorreltail, and Rainwhisker are shown to be close. The latter two did not take it well when Sootfur died in the badger attack in Twilight.

Sorreltail appears to be a good mother throughout the books. She supports her kits during stressful situations. She mourned when Honeyfern died, and is mentioned as missing her son Molepaw (who died as a young apprentice). Sorreltail in fact died because she had gone back to comfort Lilyheart and Seedpaw after the Great Battle was over with.

Cinderheart, Honeyfern, and Poppyfrost appear to have good relationships with each other. Their brother Molepaw doesn’t have enough page time to judge how he got along with them before his death. Lilyheart and Seedpaw were close before Seedpaw’s death, but they do not interact with their surviving older siblings. That’s odd as Poppyfrost was in the nursery at the time of their birth.

Cinderheart’s relationships with her kits are not shown. Poppyfrost is loving but stern towards Cherryfall and Molewhisker. Cherryfall and Molewhisker spend a lot of time together. Lilyheart does not interact with her kits much, but does appear to be a great foster mother to Twigbranch. Larksong, Leafshade, and Honeyfur are close-knit as apprentices. They don’t spend as much time with each other after being made warriors. The three of them did not react when their father Snowbush died.

It might be difficult, but a Bluefur/star descendant is not impossible. Give it a try.

Redtail: This guy had the misfortune of getting murdered by Tigerclaw/star just before Fireheart/star’s arrival to ThunderClan. He has one kit with Brindleface: Sandstorm. It’s odd that Sandstorm has no full siblings with how kits usually come in litters.

Sandstorm gave him two granddaughters, Leafpool and Squirrelflight. Leafpool had Jayfeather, Lionblaze, and Hollyleaf. Lionblaze has six kits of his own with Cinderheart. Squirrelflight kitted Alderheart, Sparkpelt, Juniperkit, and Dandelionkit later.

Sparkpelt had two kits named Finchkit and Flamekit; their brother Flickerkit was stillborn. Their father is Larksong. He died during Squirrelflight’s Hope shortly after Flickerkit from an illness.

Lionblaze is a good choice for fathering an OC as he seems interested in doing so. Sparkpelt is an option too. Jayfeather and Alderheart are not good father material because of being medicine cats, although the concept of a male medicine cat in forbidden love would be great to explore. Hollyleaf, Juniperkit, and Dandelionkit are out except for AU scenarios with their deaths.

Redtail has several indirect descendants. His older sister Leopardfoot bore Tigerstar and his dead sisters Mistkit and Nightkit. This means Brambleclaw/star, Tawnypelt, Hawkfrost, and any kits they have had are relatives of Redtail. The cat that murdered him was his nephew. See how confusing the family trees get?

That’s not the worst of it. His older brother Patchpelt mated once with their sister Willowpelt, resulting in Graystripe. Graystripe’s kits Feathertail, Stormfur, Blossomfall, Bumblestripe, and Briarlight along with Stormfur’s kits Lark, Pine, Feather, and Breeze and Blossomfall’s kits Eaglewing, Plumstone, Shellfur, and Stemleaf belong to this lineage. Patchpelt had produced Longtail beforehand with Robinwing. Neither Longtail or Graystripe are mentioned as having littermates. Single kitten litters are uncommon. I wonder what happened...

Willowpelt had more kits than Graystripe. She mated with three toms in her lifetime: Tawnyspots (who was supposed to have been retired when she was an apprentice from illness and died of said illness shortly afterwards; what happened there?), Patchpelt, and Whitestorm. Her other kits are Darkstripe, Sootfur, Rainwhisker, and Sorreltail. Sorreltail lived to have six kits; three of them lived long enough to have children of their own. Darkstripe, Sootfur, and Rainwhisker died before siring any kits. It’s a pity with Sootfur and Rainwhisker as they did not receive a lot of screen time.

Redtail thankfully had a life free of family drama before his murder from what is shown in Bluestar’s Prophecy. His mother Swiftbreeze cared for her children, and his father Adderfang was a devoted parent that visited the nursery whenever he could. He got along with his littermates okay. His relationship with his older siblings is questionable, however. Leopardfoot and Patchpelt don’t interact with their younger siblings at all, not even to visit their mother after she was done kitting. Redtail is not seen interacting with Sandstorm either.

Sandstorm loves her kits deeply. She reminded Firestar to be gentler with Squirrelflight during Midnight as acting stern with her only encouraged her poor behavior. She was distraught during Squirrelflight’s visit to the Sundrownplace and Leafpool’s capture by Twolegs. She takes a firm stand when needed, like in Twilight; in that book, she reminded Squirrelflight that her problems shouldn’t get in the way of her duties. Sandstorm was very worried when Squirrelflight was severely injured in Eclipse.

Squirrelflight and Leafpool have such a close bond that they literally feel what the other is feeling. Squirrelflight agreed to act as the foster mother of Leafpool’s kits after some hesitation, an action that eventually endangered her relationship with Brambleclaw/star. Leafpool carried heavy reservations about hiding the ‘Fire and Tiger’ prophecy from her sister.

Lionblaze, Jayfeather, and Hollyleaf are close-knit. They argue a lot with one another because of certain issues like Lionblaze meeting up with Heathertail or Hollyleaf’s faked death, but they remained bonded all the same. Their father Crowfeather has little if any relationship with them. Their bonds with Squirrelflight and Leafpool became strained after they found out the latter was their mother, but the trio’s hostility disbursed after the Great Battle.

Lionblaze’s kits are mostly minor characters. They are not shown or mentioned together much. Snaptooth and Flywhisker train together in The Raging Storm, but that’s about it. The only exception is Fernsong. He acts as a loving mate towards Ivypool. He offered to move into the nursery to care for their kits. Ivypool returns his affection.

Having a descendant of Redtail is definitely possible. His family is one of the more prolific ones in the series.

Sparrowpelt/Halftail: Much of Halftail’s origins is a mystery. It is not known who his parents or siblings were. He became mates with One-eye. They had two children: Mousefur and Runningwind. That’s where his lineage stops.

Mousefur seemed opposed to having a mate or kits during her lifetime. The closest things she had to a mate were her friendships with Longtail and Purdy. She was killed during the Dark Forest battle.

Bluestar once stated that Runningwind did not have the right temperament for mentoring. Mentoring and parenting involve taking care of and supervising young cats. Runningwind would therefore not be great father material. Tigerclaw/star killed him during Rising Storm.

So, grandchildren of Halftail seem to be a no-go. His parents, siblings, and older relatives could be expanded on in a fanfiction based in the past, however.

White-eye/One-eye: The oldest cat of ThunderClan has a more detailed family than her mate. Her mother Harepounce was a selfless cat that starved herself to death to feed her kits during a particularly bad leafbare called the Great Hunger. Harepounce’s mate Stagleap followed her soon after from starvation-induced illness.

Speckletail is One-eye’s sister. This is without counting her foster mother Rainfur, and foster siblings Tawnyspots, Dappletail, and Thrushpelt. Speckletail bore Lionheart, Goldenflower, Snowkit, and Mistlekit. Lionheart’s love life is unknown, but Goldenflower kitted Swiftpaw, Tawnypelt, and Brambleclaw/star with an unknown tom and Tigerclaw/star.

Tawnypelt had Tigerheart/star, Dawnpelt, and Flametail with Rowanclaw/star. Brambleclaw/star eventually sired Alderheart, Sparkpelt, Dandelionkit, and Juniperkit with Squirrelflight. Dawnpelt and her mate Crowfrost bore Juniperclaw, Strikestone, and Sleekwhisker. Tigerheart/star and Dovewing kitted Shadowpaw, Lightleap, and Pouncestep.

Harepounce loved her kits a lot considering she starved herself to feed them. Stagleap is not mentioned with his kits given his death early in their lives. Rainfur cared for the two sisters since she took them in without complaint after Harepounce’s death.

One-eye and Speckletail patrol together once in Bluestar’s Prophecy, and talk about Willowpelt’s nearly due litter in Rising Storm. Part of what motivates Speckletail to stay behind from the BloodClan battle in The Darkest Hour is that One-eye and Smallear would barely make it.

One-eye and Tawnyspots share a bond. They patrolled together around Sunningrocks once in Bluestar’s Prophecy and sat together during Leopardfoot’s kitting, Thrushpelt circled them during the latter. Dappletail and One-eye spent a lot of time together as elders. Dappletail complained about Tawnyspots’ frequent visits to the dirtplace in Bluestar’s Prophecy.

Any direct kin is out with Mousefur and Runningwind’s temperaments and demises. Speckletail’s line has several possibilities, though. Her daughter Goldenflower bore Brambleclaw/star and Tawnypelt. Any of their kits are therefore indirect kin of One-eye. It’s unknown whether or not Speckletail’s son Lionheart sired any kits before he died. Have fun.

Smallear: This grump does not have a detailed family. His mate was Speckletail. They had Goldenflower and Lionheart together. Making a descendant of Smallear through Goldenflower’s kits and grandchildren is a great possibility. On the other hand, this means that he mocked his own granddaughter Tawnypelt for being Tigerclaw/star’s kit in The Darkest Hour and led to her leaving ThunderClan. I know he’s a jerk, but what the heck Smallear?

He and Speckletail are only shown together on a patrol once. He questions medicine cat Goosefeather over an omen in fresh-kill after a kit-aged Lionheart calls the prey dumb, and reassures him seasons later that he was confined to camp for a good cause when Lionheart had to repair the camp wall. This means that Smallear had a positive relationship with his son if nothing else.

Smallear never interacts with his daughter Goldenflower on page. It’s a missed opportunity. It was she that mated with Tigerclaw/star and bore his kits. If Smallear heartlessly taunted Tawnypelt about having Tigerclaw/star for a father, shouldn’t he have also taken his daughter to task for mating with him in the first place?

Lionheart’s romance life is a clean slate, so maybe you could make kits of his. Other ideas include making Smallear parents and siblings in a pre-gen fic. It could be interesting.

Dappletail: Dappletail’s background is iffy. It’s shown in Goosefeather’s Curse that her mother was a cat named Rainfur and her father was the half-WindClan warrior Windflight. Her siblings were Tawnyspots and Thrushpelt. She became the foster sister of One-eye and Speckletail later after their mother Harepounce died. She seems to get along with all her family. But, we have no idea who her mate was or who her kits were.

Part of Dappletail’s history is that she had a deaf son that disappeared at three moons old. He was presumed eaten by a fox. Who sired him, and who were his siblings? How did Dappletail react to this when it first happened? The only thing confirmed is that Bluestar’s father Stormtail did not sire the kits even though he and Dappletail had a romantic relationship.

Tawnyspots was Darkstripe’s father; the latter was killed before he had any children. Thrushpelt never had any as he was into Bluefur/star, who did not return his feelings.

Windflight gave Dappletail half-siblings later in the forms of Thistleclaw, Rosetail, and Sweetpaw. Thistleclaw sired Whitestorm, who in turn had Sorreltail, Rainwhisker, and Sootfur. Sorreltail had six kits. Three of them bore children of their own.

Sweetpaw died as an apprentice, so she never had the chance to start a romance. Rosetail’s love life is not known, however.

Dappletail’s relationships with her mother, father, and siblings are not shown in detail. They are minor characters. She helped prepare Sweetpaw’s body for her vigil. Thrushpelt once took out her apprentice Goldenflower when an injury forced her to remain in camp. She also complained about Tawnyspots’ illness causing him to walk in and out of the warrior’s den all night. She was a little sad when mentioning her dead son in A Dangerous Path. That's the extent of her interaction with her family.

Go wild with Dappletail relatives. She has several holes to fill up.

Frostfur: In contrast to other characters, Frostfur’s line is very detailed. Her mother was an experienced queen named Robinwing, and her father Fuzzypelt retired soon after she and her sister Brindleface became warriors. Her parents later had Dustpelt and Ravenpaw.

It is stated when Robinwing kitted Frostfur and Brindleface that they were not her first litter. Yet, we never see these older siblings. What happened to them? Did they die, or were they just off-screen?

Frostfur bore Cinderpelt, Brackenfur, Thornclaw, and Brightheart shortly before Into The Wild. It’s not stated or hinted who fathered them. Maybe your story involves solving that mystery. She has plenty of descendants.

Brackenfur sired Sorreltail’s six kits. Their three living kits Poppyfrost, Cinderheart, and Lilyheart had children. Cinderheart’s son Larksong sired Sparkpelt’s kits. Larksong’s siblings Hollytuft and Sorrelstripe have not been seen often enough to know if they desire families or not.

Poppyfrost’s kits Molewhisker and Cherryfall are clean slates for romance, although Cherryfall had some moments with Stormcloud in Bramblestar’s Storm. Lilyheart’s kits were all just made warriors in Shattered Sky, so they need time to grow up before becoming parents.

Thornclaw became a late in life parent in Shattered Sky. His mate Blossomfall had Eaglewing, Plumstone, Shellfur, and Stemleaf. They are minor characters, but got along well enough as kits. They also share a bond with their grandfather Graystripe. It’s unknown if they want kits or not. Stemleaf is stated to like a cat, but has not mentioned a desire to raise a family

Brightheart got together with Cloudtail. She bore Whitewing, Ambermoon, Dewnose, and Snowbush. Whitewing bore Dovewing and Ivypool. Dovewing kitted a litter of three with Tigerheart/star in Tigerheart’s Shadow. Ivypool and Fernsong seem to have gotten together.

Ambermoon and Dewnose do not show signs of romance or lack there of. Snowbush sired Honeyfur, Leafshine, and Larksong with Sorreltail’s daughter Lilyheart before he died in Darkest Night. Larksong had a romance with Sparkpelt and sired her kits before dying in Squirrelflight’s Hope.

Frostfur’s sister Brindleface had two kits that died early, Sandstorm, Ferncloud, and Ashfur. Perhaps stories could take a look at Brindleface’s two young dead kits to explore what they were like, what they were named, and how they interacted with their siblings before their deaths.

Sandstorm mated with Fireheart/star, resulting in Squirrelflight and Leafpool. Leafpool gave birth to Jayfeather, Hollyleaf, and Lionblaze. Lionblaze had six kits with Cinderheart. Squirrelflight bore Alderheart, Sparkpelt, Dandelionkit, and Juniperkit later on. Sparkpelt is a good choice, Alderheart can’t legally take a mate as a medicine cat, and the latter two are dead. Dandelionkit and Juniperkit have not even been seen in StarClan when Alderheart visits, which seems like a missed opportunity.

Ferncloud got together with Dustpelt... who is also her uncle. It seems the authors should have been more careful when making the family trees. She bore Spiderleg, Shrewpaw, Birchfall, Hollykit, Larchkit, Icecloud, and Foxleap. Only Birchfall is still alive as of this writing. He and Spiderleg were the only ones to have kits of their own.

Spiderleg sired Rosepetal and Toadstep with Daisy. Toadstep died in between The Last Hope and Bramblestar’s Storm. Rosepetal has shown signs of liking Bumblestripe. Their line is definitely a possibility.

Birchfall had Dovewing and Ivypool with Whitewing. Dovewing has three kits with Tigerheart/star as of Tigerheart’s Shadow. Ivypool became mates with Fernsong, who seems very eager to help out in the nursery. Dovewing and Ivypool’s friendship has suffered from the former’s meetings with Tigerheart/star. It’s unknown how Dovewing leaving ThunderClan has affected her relations with her parents, but the fallout may be negative.

Frostfur’s brother Dustpelt has one of the most prolific lines in the series with his mate and niece Ferncloud. Their kits are listed under Ferncloud’s subsection. Dustpelt took her death very hard. Icecloud and Foxleap’s deaths coming very soon after their mother’s demise likely added to his grief.

Last is Ravenpaw, who seems to be the least favorite sibling of the family. He was canonically shown as having a close relationship with Barley. He has never wanted a mate or kits. The Warriors series is meant for children, so they can’t show explicit LBGTQ relationships without getting into trouble. The way Ravenpaw’s relatives treated him before he left ThunderClan is questionable.

Vicky Holmes has gone on record to say that Dustpelt would do everything to deny his relation with Ravenpaw. Dustpelt was shown attacking him when he was stripping down a leaf near the end of Bluestar’s Prophecy. He accused Ravenpaw of being a WindClan spy at first during the Warriors manga A Clan in Need when Ravenpaw diverted a confrontation between a WindClan and ThunderClan patrol over a missing kit.

Brindleface is never shown interacting with Ravenpaw or Dustpelt very much. She did have a good relationship with Frostfur, however. They spent time around each other, and had their litters around the same time. That speaks louder than words.

Frostfur acted aggressively towards Ravenpaw when he strayed near the nursery after Tigerclaw/star accused him of stealing her kits during Into The Wild. While her behavior could be excused if the Warriors series was more realistic about cat behavior (that is, adult toms would not be permitted around the nursery area at all), it doesn’t click as the characters are humanized. Why did she believe Tigerclaw/star’s lie? Why didn’t she see through it and stick up for her little brother? Did she regret her actions when she found out the truth?

The only family members innocent of wrongdoing with Ravenpaw are his parents. Robinwing was said to have been very patient with him near the end of Bluestar’s Prophecy. Fuzzypelt seemed decent enough, and was an elder when he and his mate had Ravenpaw and Dustpelt. He likely died shortly after they were born.

There are many Frostfur descendants to choose from, and family drama to be had.

Fireheart/star: As fitting of the main character of the first series, his family has been elaborated on with time. His mother Nutmeg was a kittypet who had no idea of what her son was up to. His father Jake was also a kittypet; he was a lot more adventurous than his mate. Fireheart/star had several siblings, including his sister Princess. He unknowingly killed his half-brother Scourge when BloodClan threatened the forest

He and Sandstorm came together, which resulted in Squirrelflight and Leafpool’s births. Leafpool kitted Jayfeather, Hollyleaf, and Lionblaze. Lionblaze now has six kits of his own. Jayfeather is not a good mate choice with him being a medicine cat and snappish temperament, although it could come about in the right circumstance. Hollyleaf is not around for having kits except for AU stories with her death in The Last Hope.

Squirrelflight bore Sparkpelt, Alderheart, Juniperkit, and Dandelionkit as an older cat. Sparkpelt is a good option. Alderheart is not a great choice for siring kits because of him being a medicine cat. Juniperkit and Dandelionkit died young, so they are not options outside of AUs

Fireheart/star’s sister Princess gave him his nephew Cloudtail to raise. Cloudtail sired Whitewing, Ambermoon, Dewnose, and Snowbush with Brightheart. Whitewing kitted Dovewing and Ivypool with Birchfall. Dovewing had Lightleap, Shadowpaw, and Pouncestep with Tigerheart/star. Ivypool appears likely to have kits with Lionblaze’s son Fernsong soon.

Ambermoon and Dewnose do not show signs of romance or lack there of. Go wild with them. Snowbush had Larksong, Leafshine, and Honeyfur with Lilyheart before he died in Darkest Night.

Cloudtail had littermates. It would be cool to see what happened to them. Have a field day. One of them might have had kits later that the rest of Fireheart/star’s line are unaware about.

Speaking of which, why not write about Fireheart/star and Princess’ littermates? Princess mentioned once that she sometimes met up with them. How did their lives turn out after the Clans left? Did any of them leave Fireheart/star and Princess nieces and nephews?

Lastly, there is Fireheart/star’s half-brother Scourge and his siblings Ruby and Socks. Scourge did not seem like the nurturing or romantic type, so him having kits before his death seems unlikely. Ruby and Socks were forced on the streets as loners. They lived at least a few years after their brother’s death according to the fifth Erin Hunter chat. They could have found love. Ruby and Socks’ relationship with Scourge was hostile with them bullying him as a kit.

Firestar appeared to have a lot of love for his daughters, although his time interacting with them diminished before his death. He was tougher on Hollyleaf, Jayfeather, and Lionblaze; they still had a lot of respect for him. He acts more supportive of Alderheart when he is seen in StarClan. He experienced a close relationship with his sister Princess until the Clans left the forest. He has not interacted with his other littermates, Cloudtail’s siblings, or Squirrelflight’s non-medicine cat kits in the actual books, so his relationship with them is not known.

So, there are plenty of options for a Fireheart/star descendant. Have fun.

Daisy: Daisy gets a lot of flak for staying in the nursery. For all of that, she had only taken two mates (Smoky and Spiderleg) and bore five kits. Smoky sired Berrynose, Hazeltail, and Mousewhisker. Spiderleg fathered Toadstep and Rosepetal.

Berrynose had Cherryfall and Molewhisker with Poppyfrost. Neither of them have shown signs of romantic preferences outside of some moments Cherryfall had with Stormcloud in Bramblestar’s Storm. Cherryfall and Molewhisker could have kits if the circumstances are right.

Mousewhisker has not had enough time on page to indicate if he wants a family or not. He has become a very minor character in recent books. He is another option.

Hazeltail and Toadstep are not around for romance or kits outside of AUs. They both died between The Last Hope and Bramblestar’s Storm.

Rosepetal has shown signs of being attracted to Bumblestripe. She’s a good choice for a Daisy descendant.

Daisy is a loving if protective mother. Her children seem to get along okay. They are sometimes mentioned as taking duties together. Hazeltail is very excited when Toadstep and Rosepetal are first born. Unfortunately, they are not mentioned too often because of being minor characters. We don’t even see Daisy or her surviving kits’ reactions to Toadstep and Hazeltail’s deaths. That seems like hasty writing to me.

A Daisy descendant is a good choice.

Stormcloud: This poor cat is a former kittypet that joined ThunderClan after a flood made him lose his home. He also lost his brother Benny in the flood. He has shown chemistry with Cherryfall. so kits with her are a possibility.

None of Stormcloud’s relatives except for Benny are known. Did he have any other siblings that lived in a different house? Who were his parents? How would any of his remaining family react to his new life?

Give kin of Stormcloud a go.

Mapleshade: Before starting on Mapleshade’s section, I would like to say that how her Clan handled her forbidden relationship with Appledusk was atrocious. A leader banished three two-moon old kits with their mother, a warrior referred to the kits as ‘creatures’, said warrior watched them drown in the river without helping them, and the mother’s RiverClan mate Appledusk got off scot-free.

With that in mind, where are Mapleshade’s parents, siblings, or other kin? ThunderClan is shown to be very low in numbers in Mapleshade’s Vengeance; Mapleshade is the only queen at that time. Even if she had betrayed the first law of the warrior code, her family would have stood up for her. They could have pointed out that banishing her would mean four less ThunderClan cats later. They could have reminded Oakstar that banishing kits for their mother’s crimes was wrong and perhaps a breach of the twelfth law of the warrior code.

A direct Mapleshade descendant is out with Patchkit, Petalkit, and Larchkit’s deaths. But, maybe she did have a sibling somewhere that had kits later. This could lead into several dark story possibilities.

#warriors warriorcats ocguide ocrelationshipguide thunderclan

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staircasttext · 3 years

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Ep 05 Transcript: Tigerclaw's Callout Post

Episode 5

[intro music]

PAZ: Hi, everyone, welcome back to Stairway to StarClan, a Warriors Cat reread pawdcast. I'm Paz.

JULIAN: I'm Julian.

LIZ: I'm Liz.

PAZ: And today we are back with, I think we're really peaking in the action here. We read chapters 19 through 21. And although it was only three chapters, a lot happened. Want to give any pre-summary impressions or just go right into it?

LIZ: Well, full disclosure, apparently I read one chapter too many last time.

JULIAN: I didn't want to say anything.

LIZ: You gotta stop me.

PAZ: I just assumed maybe I missed something. And I was like, yeah, I'll go with it. Sure. That happened.

LIZ: There's one brain cell in this podcast and we pass it around.

JULIAN: Well, you got a head start. So you only had two chapters to read.

PAZ: Well, I had less fun though. That's not a meal. It was very drama heavy, which I loved.

JULIAN: I my notes are just a bunch of frowny faces. Like every other line, I have just a little frowny face.

PAZ: Yeah, I feel that.

LIZ: So much is happening.

PAZ: So much is happening. And I guess I'll go tell everyone what was happening. So, this week, as I said, we read chapter 19 through chapter 21. And chapter 19, as Liz helpfully previewed for us last time, immediately picks up with Firepaw returning to camp after overhearing Tigerclaw. Firepaw meets Graypaw and Ravenpaw, and then goes off to get poppyseed from Spottedleaf for Graypaw's injury. Spottedleaf tells Firepaw that the spirits of StarClan are restless. And they then compel her to tell him the prophecy as if through possession, and Firepaw isn't really sure how to take that and leaves.

The next morning, Graypaw and Ravenpaw leave the camp with Tigerclaw for training. Firepaw goes off to his first training session with Bluestar, and they go to train alone. And Firepaw keeps thinking about how this is his chance to warn Bluestar about Tigerclaw and Ravenpaw. However, Firepaw cannot work up the courage to voice his thoughts, and then gets caught up in the fight training with Bluestar. There's a scene of him training with Firepaw getting some tips on how to be a better and smarter fighter. And the chapter ends with Firepaw returning to camp, and realizing he completely forgot to tell Bluestar about Tigerclaw.

In chapter 20, Firepaw returns to camp and realizes Ravenpaw has not returned with Graypaw. Firepaw is worried something happened to Ravenpaw, but he eventually returns with freshkill and say Tigerclaw forced him to hunt in ShadowClan territory. Ravenpaw gets anxious when Firepaw says they should tell Bluestar about this and retreats to sleep.

When Firepaw eventually goes to the apprentice den, he sees Ravenpaw is having a nightmare. He wakes Ravenpaw up and tells him he overheard Tigerclaw plotting to frame and kill him, and Ravenpaw understandably freaks out. Firepaw finally gets Ravenpaw to tell the story of how Redtail was murdered by Tigerclaw, which he accidentally saw. Firepaw promises to help Ravenpaw. There's so many paws to say.

In the morning Graypaw and Firepaw go to visit Brindleface's new kits. Firepaw goes and sees Yellowfang first, who says she probably wouldn't be welcome on around the kits. Firepaw visits the kits and realizes that the ThunderClan cats still don't fully accept Yellowfang.

Bluestar then calls Firepaw to another meeting alone, where she shares some of her worries about the clan with him. She mentions how much she and the clan are relying on Tigerclaw, and Firepaw decides he can't tell her his suspicions about Tigerclaw. She then shares that she actually lost her seventh rather than her fifth life to the rats.

When Firepaw leaves the meeting Brindleface screams that someone stole her kits. Everyone in the camp tries to search for them, and Firepaw spots Yellowfang leaving. Then Tigerclaw cries out and the cats run to see him standing over Spottedleaf's dead body.

Chapter 21 opens with Frostfur proclaiming that Yellowfang must have killed Spottedleaf and stolen her kits. Tigerclaw is quick to reinforce this suspicion. The storm starts during this scene. Tigerclaw wants to find Yellowfang immediately, but Bluestar refuses to let anyone leave the camp during a storm. Bluestar then calls Firepaw into another private meeting. Bluestar asks Firepaw to find Yellowfang and bring her back for questioning. She says she does not want to send Tigerclaw because she believes that he would kill Yellowfang, and Firepaw is the only one who can convince her to come back.

Firepaw goes to leave the camp, but on his way out he sees Frostfur angrily chase Ravenpaw away from the nursery Firepaw realizes he has to help Ravenpaw now and asks Graypaw to help him take Ravenpaw away from ThunderClan. Graypaw suggests that they take him to Barley. The three apprentices go to leave but are stopped by Tigerclaw, but Bluestar lies to cover for them.

They then rush out across clan territories as the storm gets worse. Firepaw finally explains the Graypaw that Ravenpaw needs to leave because he saw Tigerclaw kill Redtail. The three reach the end of WindClan territory, and Firepaw says Ravenpaw must take the rest of the journey alone. Ravenpaw worries about his fate and his reception, and Firepaw promises he will keep Ravenpaw safe by telling the clan that Ravenpaw is dead. And that's the end of our reading this week.

JULIAN: Damn.

PAZ: Yeah, it was pretty intense. I mean, as Liz mentioned last week, extremely funny that Firepaw does indeed just completely forget to warn Bluestar.

JULIAN: He's-- I have written down Firepaw himbo, which is not really an accurate usage of the word himbo. But he's just so dumb.

PAZ: He's so brainless.

LIZ: He's got a classic case of protagonist no brain. Like...

JULIAN: That's why he needs Graypaw around.

LIZ: Yeah. For the exposition, that's where the brains are held. I was pretty hard on him last time for just forgetting. But I'll rein it in a little because he he did like take some pretty decisive action after he remembered.

PAZ: Yeah, what what gets me though, is that in the other a scene where he's alone with Bluestar, where he's like, Oh, I have to tell her, he decides just not to tell her because it would like make her sad or something. And I'm like, I think knowing your deputy, like, murdered members of your clan is important. I don't think you just leave that alone. I think you need to tell her.

JULIAN: You can't just like not share that because you're afraid that she'll be sad. She's gonna be sad when she finds out that you hid it from her. Or when Tigerclaw kills his apprentice.

PAZ: I was like, Firepaw, do you think it'll just be like, if you get Ravenpaw out, everything will be like fine? Like Tigerclaw will just be like chill then? Because I don't think that's how it works.

JULIAN: God.

LIZ: Oh, my desperate murderous desire to become the number one cat will stop once I don't have to deal with my stupid son. Adopted son, student, whatever.

PAZ: There's no way I could be like, trying to kill the leader or anything.

LIZ: I'm not asking you about how much longer she has to live for any nefarious reasons.

JULIAN: Also, the fact that she just like drops that she's on life number eight.

LIZ: Ahh!

JULIAN: Is... that's a lot. That's a lot, Bluestar. Where did you lose the other two?

PAZ: Why are you also telling this only to this, like, teen, this high school senior?

JULIAN: God. Bluestar needs a friend.

LIZ: She had one. She's accused of murder now. What can you do?

JULIAN: That's true. Well, that's a wife.

PAZ: Yeah, what can you do?

LIZ: Wives should also be friends. Right?

JULIAN: Yeah.

LIZ: Wives and friends.

JULIAN: Yeah, but wife should also be friend, but sometimes you need a friend who's not your wife.

PAZ: Yeah.

LIZ: That's true.

PAZ: I mean, I guess her friends got killed because those are presumably the other deputies.

JULIAN: [hisses] Ooh.

PAZ: And now she has no one to talk to except this child, I guess.

LIZ: You're my best friend now. You're my son and best friend.

JULIAN: Totally fine and normal.

PAZ: She oscillates between like extremely stupid in this set of chapters and then also like, smart. I don't know how she doesn't suspect anything about Tigerclaw. It's so weird.

JULIAN: Like--

LIZ: I guess it's-- oh, go ahead.

JULIAN: I was gonna say like, part of me wants to think that she does kind of suspect something, because of how often she tries to, like meet with Firepaw where her guards aren't there. Um, but also, it doesn't seem like she actually does, so.

PAZ: Yeah, like, I guess like the explanation in this chapter was she thinks Tigerclaw is like too happy to jump the gun, but that seems to be like the only reservation she has about him, which is like, okay, I personally would find this suspicious if two of my deputies had died within like, I don't know, a couple months of each other. But you do you, Bluestar.

JULIAN: And like that two of my deputies had died within a couple months of each other, and that the deputy who had stepped into their place was like, just a real piece of shit.

PAZ: Yeah, she basically says he's like a real piece of shit. But she's like, he cares about our clan. So it's okay.

JULIAN: Awful.

LIZ: Are they like, even friends? Or is this just like, well, I got to live with this guy because he's good for the clan.

PAZ: I don't get the impression that they're super close.

LIZ: No. Yes, I was going to say like, Oh, it's like a blind spot. Because like, she's worked with him for so long. And like they're friends, but they're not really.

PAZ: I guess the situation is just like, everything's kind of really bad right now. And I guess maybe she's focused on that instead of other bad stuff. But.

JULIAN: Yeah, like, it doesn't even seem like he respects her. Like in the last chapter, where Firepaw, Graypaw, and Ravenpaw slip out, like Tigerclaw catches them. And there's this whole big confrontation. where, Bluestar is like, no, I told them to go do something. And he keeps pushing back on that. And it's like, well, you know, not to be supporting, like, absolute power from the leaders here. But also, it sounds like you have a mouthy deputy and you shouldn't stand for that.

PAZ: Yeah, yeah. He like back talks her like multiple times in this set of chapters. Like when she says, like, no one can leave the camp because of a storm, he like, really argues against her.

JULIAN: There is a moment where Firepaw is not complete himbo in the first chapter, where like Tigerclaw wakes them up for training. And he glares at Tigerclaw I think the sentence is "Firepaw held the menacing amber gaze for a few moments. Warrior and apprentice, for a heartbeat their eyes were locked as enemies." And I'm like, holy shit.

PAZ: I did like that line.

LIZ: That was really good.

PAZ: I mean, I guess is that-- the trainings scene with Bluestar was cute. But it was also like, Oh my god, you forgot.

LIZ: Like, I get it. She's cool. You're awed by the power of girl boss.

JULIAN: Your friend is going to be murdered.

PAZ: Your friend is gonna be murdered. He's so terrified.

LIZ: If like, if the stakes of that were lower, like, just some other drama, I might understand. But this is life and death.

PAZ: Yeah, for real.

JULIAN: Like we don't have time for a fun little Mr. Miyagi trading session.

PAZ: I guess the next thing of note that happens is like Ravenpaw coming back from his outing with Tigerclaw. And once again, Tigerclaw seems to have tried to get him killed indirectly by sending him to do the very illegal and kill on sight activity of hunting in ShadowClan's territory.

JULIAN: I feel like Tigerclaw is-- like Ravenpaw is the kid who comes home, and is like, oh, my teacher took me on another murder field trip today.

PAZ: And then everyone's like, Oh, that's nice.

JULIAN: How was your time at the knife factory, Ravenpaw? Good?

LIZ: Tigerclaw is evil Miss Frizzle.

PAZ: Oh my god. Hey, what's the fucking Magic School Bus line? Like not another stupid murder field trip.

LIZ: Tigerclaw, why can't we have just a normal field trip like to look at the regular mice and not snake hell?

PAZ: It's like almost comical, except Ravenpaw makes me extremely sad.

LIZ: He's the saddest little cat in the world.

JULIAN: I have a little note, when he wakes up from like his horrible nightmare, just like, buddy.

PAZ: I know.

JULIAN: How often is he waking up, like, completely disoriented from nightmares of being murdered by his mentor?

PAZ: Yeah, he's probably so scared he's gonna get fucking murdered in his sleep because Tigerclaw would do that.

LIZ: Totally. Just, this cat has anxiety.

PAZ: For good reason. Um, yeah, that scene made me super sad, but Firepaw was like a really good friend with like comforting him. It's very sweet.

LIZ: Once he remembered.

PAZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: The scene with the kits is cute, but I'm very sad that they still don't trust Yellowfang.

PAZ: Yeah, these cats are so xenophobic, and easily swayed by the words of one guy, apparently.

LIZ: One shitty guy. I don't think-- he can't be like that great to anyone else.

JULIAN: Right?

PAZ: Right? She just saved like, all the kits from death. Like, please chill.

JULIAN: She saved all the kits from death. Like, I feel like that should get her more than a day of like, people not hating her.

PAZ: She was the Twitter main character of the day in a good way, and then it went away.

LIZ: I regret to inform you that really good cat who saved all the kittens is actually bad and a murderer.

PAZ: Tigerclaw was tweeting that out. Tigerclaw, a thread: Why Yellowfang Sucks.

JULIAN: Tigerclaw's 500 page Google Docs call out post for Yellowfang.

LIZ: Oh my god.

PAZ: And Ravenpaw.

JULIAN: And Ravenpaw. There's multiple sections.

PAZ: Oh my god, it is just the like 500 page call out post of some like 30 year old, like writing about like a 15 year old. It's just that. That's what Tigerclaw's doing for Ravenpaw.

JULIAN: God.

LIZ: Tigerclaw typing furiously, Ravenpaw is making our clan a hostile environment for me specifically.

PAZ: Oh god.

LIZ: I know he's just 12 in cat years. But he's a murderous, horrible, man.

PAZ: Tigerclaw, #clandad.

LIZ: Ugh.

PAZ: Another really funny thing was Firepaw like reassuring Ravenpaw and like him being like, it's okay. Graypaw and I will-- one of us will stay by your side at all times. And then the very next paragraph is them like both leaving the apprentice den. I was like, oh my god.

JULIAN: He forgot again.

LIZ: I think we're just bringing our human values into a story that just doesn't have it, and our human value is having object permanence.

PAZ: Cats are supposed to have better memories than dogs, though. Come on, guys. Step it up.

LIZ: You can see him.

PAZ: Also, I've posted a picture in the chat I hope we can enjoy.

JULIAN: Aw.

PAZ: That's a very good cat.

JULIAN: Oh, that is a good cat. He's standing on his back leg like a little human man.

LIZ: Cause he's nervous. He's got to get a vantage point, you know, to see all the people coming for him.

PAZ: Oh, something very sad that I learned while looking at the official Warrior Cats family tree is that the cat who like lashes out at Ravenpaw like when he tries to go to the nursery, Frostfur, is also his sibling.

JULIAN: Nooo.

LIZ: No.

PAZ: Why do all of his siblings suck and hate him?

LIZ: Oh my god.

JULIAN: Oh, this is awful. Ravenpaw...

PAZ: His life sucks so bad.

LIZ: They don't deserve him. He's my sibling now. This will work.

JULIAN: There is kind of a nice moment in Firepaw's conversation with Bluestar where he slow blinks at her. I made a note of that. I thought was very cute.

PAZ: Aw, I didn't notice that. That's so cute.

LIZ: Just little guys.

JULIAN: They're just little guys.

PAZ: They are.

JULIAN: Out in the woods.

PAZ: But then Tigerclaw murders another person.

LIZ: Oh my god.

PAZ: RIP to Spottedleaf. I really thought she was around longer.

JULIAN: Same.

LIZ: There's like significant, like from my, my vague googling. There's like significant art around, I think.

JULIAN: Yeah, she left such an impression on me as like a young did not know I was gay baby that like, I for sure thought she lasted more than like three quarters of one book.

PAZ: Yeah, I thought she was like, pretty much alive this whole first series. Because like, even I know about her, like, as someone who really only read from the second series onwards. Maybe she shows up in like StarClan a lot. I don't know.

JULIAN: Maybe?

LIZ: That could happen, yeah. Maybe she faked her death.

PAZ: She did that like doctor thing where they take the death pill.

JULIAN: I'm sure if she took enough poppy seeds she could like slow her heartbeat a lot.

PAZ: Yeah, I don't know. But I'm assuming she's actually dead. I have no idea.

JULIAN: I think she's actually dead.

LIZ: Tigerclaw-- I don't think he's thinking things through very well. Because let's definitely murder our only doctor and then frame the other doctor at a time when we are being, like, severely attacked. That's cool. That'll be great.

PAZ: It's okay. He read like one Wikipedia article on medicine. And he's totally got this. And he is the expert, and he will reply to you on Twitter, saying that he knows more than you, someone with a medical degree.

JULIAN: Tigerclaw was a pre med student 15 years ago.

LIZ: Oh. Ooh.

PAZ: Yeah. And it's amazing how he's like, he's literally standing over Spottedleaf's dead body. And everyone's like, Oh, no, it must have been Yellowfang

JULIAN: I feel like these cats need to read more murder mysteries so that they know that it's always the person who finds the body or the last person who saw it.

PAZ: Right? That's a classic.

KIP: [mew]

PAZ: Hi, Kip.

LIZ: Kip? Did you do it, Kip?

JULIAN: God, it is really sad that Yellowfang jumps immediately to like, Well, I have to leave. Like--

PAZ: I know.

JULIAN: No one trusts me. I gotto get out.

PAZ: Well, I also assume Yellowfang is smart enough to notice that like Tigerclaw isspreading rumors about her. Unlike Bluestar, who apparently doesn't notice anything.

JULIAN: God. Protect your wife better. Bluestar

LIZ: I know you're busy, but come on.

PAZ: It is um, it is nice that Bluestar doesn't immediately jump to like, believing she's a murder.

JULIAN: Yeah, no, she says something about like, I don't know. I need to know the truth.

PAZ: That is her wife. You gotta have a little trust.

JULIAN: Give your wife a little of the benefit of the doubt.

LIZ: Yeah, that's pretty sweet.

PAZ: That was like a-- she did have like a pretty good plan of like, getting Firepaw to go out and find Yellowfang.

JULIAN: Yeah, her friend.

PAZ: Her one friend.

LIZ: Bluestar, they're just dropping like flies around her. And she's old. She can't talk to like the young hip cats. She's not that old because she can't talk to like these super elderly cats either.

JULIAN: Is Bluestar-- Bluestar is MILF aged, but not in fact a MILF?

LIZ: No.

PAZ: No, cause she's a cat.

LIZ: True, but she also doesn't have children, right?

PAZ: It is that that Sandra Oh post, though. She doesn't even have children.

LIZ: I don't wanna call these cats MILFs.

PAZ: No.

JULIAN: We can stop. We can stop.

PAZ: Um...

JULIAN: Middle aged.

LIZ: Right, right.

PAZ: Middle aged girl boss.

JULIAN: She's a career woman.

LIZ: She's a career woman.

PAZ: Yes, she is. Um, yeah, I mean, so the the last chapter kind of goes into all the, like, accusation stuff, and like, the storm going on during all of it's very atmospheric. I enjoyed it.

JULIAN: God, and then they're just like, alright Ravenpaw, time to go. Let's go. We're taking you to Barley. No time to say goodbye.

PAZ: I mean, I guess like, okay, so like Firepaw's still too stupid to realize that Tigerclaw definitely killed Spottedleaf. But at least he figured out like, now is the atmosphere in which a cat could definitely get murdered. So let's go, Ravenpaw.

LIZ: I do like that as soon as he figures it out, even though it takes forever, that he just like just snaps right to it.

PAZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: He's a cat of action.

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: He sure is.

LIZ: Barley's cool to hang out with.

JULIAN: Barley is cool. Can we talk about the-- is that too spoilery?

PAZ: Um, I don't know. I don't know like when it actually comes up in the...

JULIAN: I think it mostly comes up in the extra book that I don't know that we're actually going to read.

PAZ: Yeah, I mean, I know that, um, like Ravenpaw shows up later in the series to like do some stuff, but I don't. Yeah, I don't know. I guess we can talk about it because I want to.

JULIAN: I want to very badly.

LIZ: Let's talk about it. I'm so confused.

JULIAN: I'm sorry. So when we were carefully teasing the cat that Barley was gay with last episode.

LIZ: Ohh.

JULIAN: Yeah.

PAZ: It's Ravenpaw.

JULIAN: It's Ravenpaw.

PAZ: I thought you would have figured it out cause I kept like googling Ravenpaw and also talking about Barley.

LIZ: Well, I'm Firepaw. I don't know shit. Good for him!

JULIAN: Yeah, yeah, he gets to go live on a farm and have a nice pastoral life.

LIZ: That's what he deserves. I don't want him to be in like this war torn like cat society where your siblings will just like drop you immediately. Your teacher is gonna constantly comically try to kill you.

JULIAN: Barley will never let you down.

LIZ: He won't. He's great. Good catch.

PAZ: Yeah. Ravenpaw is listed as his partner on the wiki. I did see some drama in the forums apparently that he used to be listed as mate, as his mate, and like the authors have referred to them as mates. But the wiki will not for some reason. And there's contention.

LIZ: Well, as podcasters of an official Warriors podcast, I'm just saying we have some, some some rights. Some editing rights. Just saying. Not that anyone's gonna do anything at this point.

JULIAN: Oh, yeah, I'm in the Talk page, and there is a lot of back and forth.

PAZ: Oh boy. "Vicky has stated that Ravenpaw and Barley loved each other and their life together and never regretted leaving ThunderClan." Very, very sweet.

LIZ: Aw.

PAZ: Yes. I mean, I'm sure there'll be more to talk about that in the future. But do not worry, everyone, Ravenpaw is leaving this murder plot to go live on a farm and be gay. And that's exactly what he deserves. And kudos to Graypaw for coming up with that idea. His one thought.

LIZ: That was good.

PAZ: I think he's even more head empty than Firepaw. But that's fine.

JULIAN: Well, his head is full of backstory.

PAZ: It's true.

JULIAN: He doesn't have any space for anything new because he's got all of the exposition.

LIZ: Yeah, he's like Sherlock Holmes. It's all just full in there. And if he gets too much new knowledge, it comes up, comes back out. You know? Is that how that works? I've never really read those, so. I mean, since we're on about like, Ravenpaw right now, I think the faking his death thing is very cool.

PAZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: It's very nice.

LIZ: It comes in at a nice dramatic moment, too.

PAZ: Yeah, it's like the very end of the chapter. It's good. The visuals of it are just so good like doing this huge storm like out on the moors.

JULIAN: I just can't get over the fact that like, they don't really say a proper goodbye to him either. It's just like, this is as far as we can take you. Get gone.

PAZ: I mean, I guess the reason for that in-universe is they do have to go find Yellowfang.

JULIAN: Yeah.

PAZ: And I don't know, maybe... they probably do visit him. I guess he's not like going to Scotland, or whatever. I don't know. Maybe this is in Scotland.

LIZ: He's the equivalence of like, I've moved to another city, but the city is right next to yours.

PAZ: Yeah, he just moved like a town over.

LIZ: Like, if this was my city, he'd still be in LA County.

JULIAN: Yeah, like, I assume, I guess it's that like they can go visit him again. But.

LIZ: I hope they do.

PAZ: I hope they do. Yeah. [sighs] Poor Ravenpaw. I'm so sad for him.

LIZ: He's a very sad boy.

PAZ: Something I noted down in this chapter is they use a very cute unit of measurement, which is a kittenstep.

JULIAN: Aw.

LIZ: Awww.

PAZ: It was just a very cute phrasing them in the middle of this very dramatic escape.

JULIAN: Aw.

PAZ: Kittenstep.

LIZ: Adorable.

JULIAN: I remember seeing like pawsteps, but kittenstep is really cute.

PAZ: It's so cute.

LIZ: They're just little guys.

PAZ: They are.

LIZ: So also the implication that like Ravenpaw is just forever-- I mean, I know in the end that he is forever, like, gonna live over there now.

PAZ: Yeah, sorry, I guess we spoiled that for you.

LIZ: I wouldn't come back if I was him. But yeah, is he not gonna, like, just return briefly to like, clear his name or anything?

PAZ: I don't know. I guess we'll see.

LIZ: Or like, is he is he permanently like fake death? You know, we'll see like you said, That's interesting, though.

Yeah. If I were him, I would not want to come back, but.

PAZ: No.

LIZ: No.

PAZ: Because like, it wasn't even just Tigerclaw who was horrible and treated him. Tigerclaw easily convinced everyone in the clan, including his own siblings, that he was horrible. So.

LIZ: Is ThunderClan homophobic?

PAZ: Oh no.

LIZ: I hate that.

PAZ: No, Bluestar's wife.

JULIAN: God, there was like, I saw some discussion of this on the forums that you linked, Paz, about people being like, oh, it seems like Tigerclaw convinced them all too easily. And like, I kind of don't think so. Because that is how, like, fascism works kind of is like, you know, Tigerclaw is a really good speaker and also like, they have an external enemy. It's not that hard for him to convince people to be like, oh, there's an external enemy. And also they have spies among us. Don't pay attention to all the evil shit I'm doing.

PAZ: That's a very good point.

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: Yeah, cause I mean, it's already established as a very inherently like xenophobic culture. So probably very easy to twist that.

JULIAN: Yeah. And like there is an external threat. ShadowClan like, does want to get them. But also, you know, Ravenpaw doesn't.

LIZ: No, cause he's just a little guy.

JULIAN: He's just a little guy.

LIZ: He's a little guy. He's a great student. He gets top marks on all his murder missions. Yeah, but like Tigerclaw is also like, actively, like, cultivating that atmosphere of like paranoia, because they didn't they didn't used to have like, guards around the president before, but they do now.

JULIAN: Yeah. And like he's one of the loudest people like talking about how Yellowfang is a threat.

PAZ: Yeah, I think comparing him to sort of like a cult of personality, like fascist-esque leader is a really good point. Because he's definitely using ThunderClan's like own internal bias to his favor in terms of getting what he wants and convincing people of his point of view.

JULIAN: He sucks.

PAZ: He really sucks.

JULIAN: Yeah.

PAZ: And that's why Firepaw should have said something to Bluestar, because the problem is not going away even though you've gotten your friend to safety.

LIZ: Like, I wonder if that's gonna look like more suspicious later if-- I don't know. I mean, he is dead to them now. So this is another thing that has to be like, dealt with once we read. And like Tigerclaw does have to deal with the fact that like, he wants to make Ravenpaw look suspicious, but he's not an outsider. So he can't rely on that. So he like, says, Oh, he's not really one of us. And that's like a pretty classic tactic there, right? Like, oh, yeah, he was-- he's from here, but he's not like us.

JULIAN: Yeah, I think-- I may be misremembering, but I think he's also the first one like, after the ShadowClan battle to be like, oh, it was too easy. There must have been like spies in ThunderClan.

PAZ: Yeah, I think he's the one who definitely starts that idea. Um, there is a forum thread I guess with some interesting info in terms of Tigerclaw and Ravenpaw. Which I guess I can just read.

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: So this is in like the new forum that people made after the old official forums closed. And this person said, like, oh, I've been rereading the Warriors books. "But one question really bothered me when reading that I'm kind of surprised people don't notice more. Why doesn't anyone in ThunderClan notice that Tigerclaw is A, evil and B, abusing Ravenpaw? He constantly snaps at the apprentices, for one, and he's constantly putting down Ravenpaw in a context where anyone with a working brain would notice that he's being way more harsh than necessary. Does nobody except for Firepaw notice that Ravenpaw can't walk two steps without Tigerclaw verbally abusing him?

I'm not even getting into that part where Tigerclaw apparently got the nursery queens to believe that a scrawny eight month old cat who jumps at his own shadow is a danger to the clan/a traitor because lol. Why did Bluestar even give someone like Ravenpaw a mentor like Tigerclaw anyways? Someone like Whitestorm would have been a lot better in my opinion."

And the next reply was, "I don't know about the other stuff, but I think I saw somewhere that Ravenpaw was given to Tigerclaw to help him out of his shell or something." And then someone said, "however, in Redtail's Debt," which is either a manga or a special book, I don't know. "Ravenpaw is apparently this oh boy, I want to fight apprentice who only gets extremely timid and anxious after he sees Tigerclaw kill Redtail." To which OP just responds, "what."

[laughter]

And then someone else says, "I would say it makes sense that a traumatic event would change someone. Like in Bluestar's Prophecy, it was told he was a timid as a kit, but I think it's weird that he would go from timid to battle hungry and then back to timid." So forum people seem divided over that canon that he was apparently ready to fight as an apprentice.

JULIAN: It sounds like the the lore bible needs to be updated.

PAZ: But I think it's interesting if it is canon that like the reason he went with Tigerclaw was to like, make him more confident, and then the exact opposite happened.

LIZ: Mm.

JULIAN: Aw, buddy.

LIZ: That sucks.

JULIAN: It sucks so much. It feels like the Warriors-- the Warriors. The Warrior Cats have like this sort of system of like, at least especially with Tigerclaw of like, kind of like paying your dues. Like you get the shitty job as an apprentice. And then, you know, once you become a warrior, you get to then bully the apprentices, and that sucks.

PAZ: That's a terrible system.

JULIAN: It's a bad system.

PAZ: Maybe there's some people who just shouldn't be teachers. It's a novel concept, I know.

JULIAN: Yeah, there really aren't a lot of jobs that you can have as a cat.

PAZ: No. You can either be, one, baby, two, teenager in training, three, warrior, four, doctor, but that can only ever be two doctors at once. So that's not really viable for most cats. And five, leader. That's it.

JULIAN: Don't forget, six, pregnant, and, seven, old.

PAZ: Yeah, sorry, I did forget.

LIZ: Why can't there be more doctors? It seems like there should be.

PAZ: I don't know.

JULIAN: I think the cats actually need to specialize a little bit because like warrior is such a catch all like, oh, you have to be good at fighting and hunting. And also you need to be good at teaching so that you don't fuck up the next generation irreparably. And like those are conflicting skills.

PAZ: Right?

JULIAN: Like someone who's a really good, like, brutal fighter is not necessarily going to be great with kids.

PAZ: Just-- I mean, that's Tigerclaw

LIZ: What if they got like a therapist cat? There.

PAZ: I think they really could use that, especially Bluestar.

JULIAN: When will the medicine cats develop therapy?

LIZ: How many problems in the Warriors series would be solved if there were cat therapists?

JULIAN: Well, I think there's like-- at some point, I don't remember if it's in this book or later books, but like one of the medicine cat one of the cats is like anxious and having trouble sleeping and one of the medicine cat is like, oh here, like take this. And it's like, Okay, well, thanks.

PAZ: Psychiatrists, I guess.

JULIAN: But also, like, you know, there's not really much mention of the root cause.

LIZ: It's almost like they live in a war torn cat society where no one shares.

PAZ: But we're free.

LIZ: We're free to get all the ticks we want.

JULIAN: We're free to get murdered by Tigerclaw, by Tigerclaw's increasingly like crushing iron paw.

LIZ: Eugh.

PAZ: Once again, all issues would be solved if they just went inside.

JULIAN: They don't even have to go inside. They could go like pull a Barley and live on a farm.

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: Yeah. Barley seemed like really living the life.

JULIAN: Like he can have a roof over his head, and like, presumably if he gets too fucked up the humans will take him to the vet. Because I wouldn't want like a really busted barn cat around. And like also he doesn't have to you know get his balls chopped off.

LIZ: So he can still go to heaven.

JULIAN: So he can still go to heaven.

PAZ: He doesn't though.

LIZ: Oh, that's true.

PAZ: He meets one of the very important criteria, which is, one, having balls, but he doesn't meet the other, which is, two, believing in cat heaven, so.

JULIAN: Damn.

LIZ: Well, he can't, but theoretically, the other ones could if they just lived on a barn.

PAZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: Right, if you took a bunch of believers in cat heaven, and plopped them into a barn.

PAZ: We've made a church. Hold on, it's all going wrong.

JULIAN: We've just made them-- Firepaw's become Catholic again.

LIZ: Not again. It keeps happening.

PAZ: Oh god.

LIZ: Barley comes inside from like, catching some rats or something. And there's just all these cats at church in his little barn.

JULIAN: They've pulled some hay bales into place to become like pews. Oh, this is awful.

LIZ: Oh no. You've put a dome in my barn. I don't need that. Why are these frescoes in here?

PAZ: Why aren't there any cat artists? There's a question.

JULIAN: Yeah. That is a good question.

PAZ: God. There simply are not enough roles in this cat society.

LIZ: There should be at least be like cat like oral storytellers.

JULIAN: Right? I feel like the elders like do some of that.

LIZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: Cause Lionheart talks a little bit about like, Oh, don't you listen to your elders? When LionClan and TigerClan come up.

LIZ: I want some like oral storytellers doing like lyrical ballads and like fiction and stuff, though.

PAZ: Oh fuck yeah. I guess there has to be-- I guess the cats also function as builders because they, like fucking repair their wall in this chapter.

JULIAN: Oh yeah, that's true. Where are the cat engineers?

LIZ: What's that wall made of again?

PAZ: Oh god, I wasn't paying attention.

JULIAN: I think it's like leaves and sticks and stuff. It's like kind of a hedge.

PAZ: Yeah.

LIZ: Do you think that RiverClan knows some beavers?

PAZ: No, because there aren't beavers in England, right?

JULIAN: Um, I don't know.

LIZ: I don't fucking know.

JULIAN: There might be-- muskrats build like something similar, I think.

LIZ: [typing] Are there beavers in England?

PAZ: We're really just a podcast that googles animal facts in disguise.

LIZ: Where do beavers live? Knapdale, the Tay, and the Otter are the only places in the UK with wild free ranging beavers. So yes.

PAZ: No but are they native?

JULIAN: Hell yes.

PAZ: Or were they like...

LIZ: They're native. It says they're native.

PAZ: Are you sure? Cause-- no, that was the whole fucking thing with the Beaver Wars or whatever is like, Europeans got--

LIZ: The what?

JULIAN: No, no, no. There's two extant species.

LIZ: Is that another book series?

JULIAN: There's the North American beavers and the Eurasian beavers.

PAZ: Then why didn't European people-- why didn't the European people go cuckoo over the the European beavers?

JULIAN: Cause they killed them all already. Um, "it was once widespread but was hunted to near extinction for its fur. At the turn of the 20th century, there were 1200 beavers in all of Europe and Asia."

PAZ: Oh my god.

LIZ: Oh my god.

PAZ: I don't think these cats are meeting beavers.

JULIAN: Yeah, it was pretty rough.

PAZ: I think they're all fucking dead.

LIZ: This is written in the current, though, so maybe they're making a comeback?

PAZ: Maybe.

JULIAN: Oh, yeah, it's back up to 600,000.

LIZ: Nice.

PAZ: That's pretty good.

JULIAN: Hell yeah.

LIZ: Good to have them around. So maybe, maybe the cats are getting some some tips from the beavers if they're in RiverClan.

PAZ: Oh, no.

LIZ: No?

PAZ: I regret to inform you, this map of beaver range, the British Isles are untouched.

JULIAN: Oh, here we go. "The first sustained and significant population of wild living beavers in the UK became established as early as 2001 in Scotland." Oh, there's a whole controversy about these beavers.

PAZ: What's the controversy?

JULIAN: So the beavers were escapees from captive beaver sites, or illegal releases.

LIZ: Oh my god.

JULIAN: So Scottish Natural Heritage initially planned to remove them.

LIZ: Oh my god.

JULIAN: "But proponents of the beavers argued that no reason existed to believe that they were of, quote unquote, 'the wrong genetic stock' and that they should be permitted to remain."

LIZ: Wait a minute.

JULIAN: "One beaver was trapped by Scottish Natural Heritage on the river Ericht and was held in captivity in the Edinburgh Zoo."

PAZ: Free him.

LIZ: Oh my god.

JULIAN: Let me out!

LIZ: Just the one of them? He's so lonely.

JULIAN: Oh, man. Yeah, there weren't, um, it had been 400 years since there were any beavers in Scotland. That sucks. That does make sense though. Because there are beavers in the Chronicles of Narnia.

PAZ: Oh, you're right. I remember them. They were like married or something? I don't know.

JULIAN: Yeah.

LIZ: God, I read those books and I remember very little about them.

PAZ: Me neither.

JULIAN: I remember a lot about them. But this is not a Narnia reread podcast.

PAZ: Yeah, I mean Chronicles of Narnia is the series if you want a cat to become Catholic. Anything else to say about these chapters?

LIZ: I don't know how we got here.

PAZ: Me neither. I can't track the arc of that conversation.

JULIAN: We were asking if RiverClan knew any beavers.

LIZ: Oh right, because of the cats have walls.

JULIAN: Cause of the building.

LIZ: Beavers build things.

JULIAN: Yes. I would like to see, while we're on the topic of cat jobs. I would love to see some cat dancers. I would like to see movement art from the cats. I think they would be well suited to it.

LIZ: Cat actors would be really nice, just like little stage. Just having a good time, introducing the concept of fiction to the other cats.

PAZ: These cats don't seem to know about the concept of lying, so that might be-- that might be a big leap for them.

JULIAN: I think it could be really good for them. They might recognize when Tigerclaw tells some real fucking whoppers.

LIZ: Instructional.

PAZ: Yeah, these cats need a translation of Hamlet available, stat.

LIZ: Cat Hamlet would just be about Ravenpaw, except he is nice. So not Hamlet, I guess. He fakes his death.

PAZ: Yeah, God.

JULIAN: I know we said that Graypaw was Horatio, but what if Ravenpaw was Horatio? I don't have any textual evidence for this, but just that he's sad, and I like him.

LIZ: Who's Hamlet, then?

PAZ: Um...

JULIAN: Oh. Firepaw?

PAZ: I don't know, Firepaw?

LIZ: Ugh.

JULIAN: I know.

LIZ: The concept of that is so good.

PAZ: Hold on. Hold on. I'm gonna do a quick Google, hold on.

LIZ: This doesn't fit at all. Just it's very good. Like the concept of Hamlet for any of these cats is not good. I know I introduced it. But it's very funny.

JULIAN: Hamlet doesn't really map on to this story very well at all, but I do like to imagine them in little pants.

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: Someone has written a Warrior Cats/Hamlet crossover on Wattpad.

LIZ: Oh my god.

JULIAN: God.

PAZ: But it seems to be with OCs as far as I can tell.

JULIAN: Boo. I mean, not boo. That's very creative.

PAZ: Warriors first arc as Hamlet characters, Warrior Cats Reddit. Okay, here's someone with some thoughts on Reddit. "I've been reading Hamlet in my English class, and I could not stop thinking about this."

LIZ: Aw.

PAZ: "Hamlet: Firestar. Ophelia: Spottedleaf. King Hamlet: Redtail. Claudius: Tigerstar. Gertrude: Bluestar." Uh, Laer-- Laertes? Is that that fucking French bitch?

JULIAN: Yeah.

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: I don't know. I don't remember.

JULIAN: Laertes is the one who gets stabbed through the curtain.

PAZ: Oh, is that like that weird--

LIZ: No, that's--

JULIAN: Oh no, fuck, that's Polonius.

LIZ: That's his son.

PAZ: Yeah, that French bitch.

JULIAN: They're all Danish.

PAZ: No, he was like going to school in France or something.

LIZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: Oh, yeah.

LIZ: That's true.

JULIAN: No, you're right.

PAZ: Okay. "Laertes: Thistleclaw." We haven't met them yet. "Marcellus: Ravenpaw." Who the fuck is Marcellus?

JULIAN: Who the fuck is Marcellus?

LIZ: Marcellus?

JULIAN: This is such a deep pull.

PAZ: Who is Marcellus? I don't remember this guy.

LIZ: Marcellus is just a random friend who sees the ghost.

PAZ: Hey, now, Ravenpaw-- this is like-- this book could easily be from Ravenpaw's perspective because it kind of centers completely around him, frankly.

LIZ: Ravenpaw should at least be Horatio.

PAZ: No, this person says Horatio is indeed Graypaw. "Polonius: Dustpelt." Okay, that's funny. "Guildenstern: Darkstripe, Rosencrantz: Longtail." I don't...

JULIAN: Yeah.

PAZ: They aren't like antagonistic, though. They're just guys.

JULIAN: They're the guards. They're like Tigerclaw's lackeys.

PAZ: But aren't they just like Hamlet's like school friends in the play?

JULIAN: Well, they're his school friends, but then Claudius like, orders them to kill him. Or to kill Hamlet on the like, um...

LIZ: Pirate ship.

JULIAN: Yeah. The whole pirate ship thing.

PAZ: Oh, yeah, I remember this now.

JULIAN: I only remember this because I have watched Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead. Otherwise, I would not.

PAZ: Welcome to our Hamlet reread podcast.

LIZ: Where's Graypaw?

JULIAN: He's Horatio.

PAZ: He's Horatio.

LIZ: All right. All right.

PAZ: Well, at least other people have considered this.

JULIAN: Yeah, I'm glad other people have thought about it.

PAZ: I don't know. Anything else? Anything else about these set of chapters? We kind of just bounced all over the place.

JULIAN: I think we hit everything, though.

LIZ: Just the Shakespeare cats are a good concept to me.

JULIAN: It is.

LIZ: Just aesthetically. I want to see them in the little pantaloons.

JULIAN: Little pants, little hats.

LIZ: Ruffs.

JULIAN: Oh.

LIZ: Little sabers. How are they holding them? Don't ask me.

JULIAN: Well, you can--

PAZ: Their mouths.

JULIAN: --look at our cover art. That's how they hold them.

LIZ: Yeah. Attached vaguely to to a little round paw that's not gripping it in any way whatsoever.

PAZ: It's magic. It's StarClan's magic.

LIZ: It's like in Dragon Age when your weapon just clips to your back or something.

PAZ: Yes. Well, okay, that was a set of chapters. Big sadface for Ravenpaw, but I think we can move on now.

[meow sound effect]

Okay, so I did some digging around in the Wayback Machine trying to find some Warriors Cats content from the oughts. Quite difficult to find cause a lot of websites just aren't archived well. But today I bring you a special find, I think, from the website Wands and Worlds, which is fantasy and science fiction for childrens and teens, apparently.

This is a beautiful post from 2008, which is Sparrowheart's Guide to Warrior Names. Sparrowheart, the author, has created a very detailed set of instructions for us about what is a proper Warriors name. They also say, "you may disagree with me, and if so, please don't yell at me. I'm not saying my way for Warriors names, and the way of a few other people, is the only way to do this. There are two ways to create Warrior names, the imaginative, out of the cat world way, and the simple literal way. I'll try to cover both in this, but since I'm more for the literal names, I may not."

JULIAN: "If you're a judge for a naming contest, there are three main ways to judge in my opinion. Number one, by how pretty, beautiful, or just plain nice-sounding the name is to you. This isn't really a good way to judge a name in a contest, as prettiness isn't a good factor. You can add a couple of points for prettiness if you're a judge, but don't look at all of the names you're judging and give the prettiest one an absolute 10, unless you have other reasons to give it a 10. Not everyone in the world will think the name you think is pretty is also pretty.

Number two, by how imaginative or creative the name is. Well, I personally am not one to judge for creativeness, even though yes, being creative is fun, and for most people an enjoyable thing to do. And then number three, by how simple and to the point it is. I would recommend doing the third option. After looking at the simplicity of the name, try the other check points listed below.

When you're judging Warrior names for a contest, you might want to check if the name contains things that most cats, no matter what their location in the world, probably wouldn't have the actual English names for, like hammer, ghost, and violent.

LIZ: They have ghosts.

JULIAN: They do have ghosts.

PAZ: They have the ghost residence.

JULIAN: I don't know if they had ghosts in 2008 though.

PAZ: Yeah, maybe not.

JULIAN: "The name puts a prefix and a suffix together that make no sense whatsoever. For example, Redsong, even though Red is a good prefix, and Song, while often overused by the imaginative thinker name people, can have some good results. They do not go together. To put it simply, a song can't go with Red, because a song can't be read. But if you don't want to go with ultra common sense of your warrior names, then you might as well press the back button and leave this page." Alright.

LIZ: I think there's a little judgment going on.

JULIAN: Yeah.

PAZ: They said I won't be judging, but, um, I'm getting some vibes.

LIZ: Cats have like different concepts of color, probably. Why wouldn't a song be red to a cat?

JULIAN: Maybe the cats have synesthesia. We don't know.

LIZ: Yeah. Very judgy. I don't like that. Oh, should I read now?

JULIAN: Go for it.

LIZ: All right.

JULIAN: I was just trying to figure out how to how to edit down this next paragraph.

LIZ: Oh I just saw it, okay. "The name that states that the cat has had a history of being dark hearted or is dark hearted is, quote unquote, 'emo.' After all, the cat may be a rather kind cat. But we don't truly know that unless we look at the history of said cat. And if the name was for a Warrior name contest entry, the person might not want to put a history behind the cat and its name. And for a contest, it would make no sense for a cat to have such a reason behind its name that was made up for just a contest that only judges on the name." That's really long.

PAZ: I don't know what this person is saying.

LIZ: What is--

JULIAN: So I think they're saying--

LIZ: What--

JULIAN: I think they're saying that like a couple sentences later, they get to their point, which is that even if the cat is evil, it doesn't make sense for them to have an evil name because, like first off, that would give it away to everyone that they were evil, and they wouldn't want to do that. And second off, why would a leader name a cat like an evil name? Unfortunately, I think this person has forgotten that like Brokenstar and Raggedstar and like all of the other busted names exist.

PAZ: Right? Tigerclaw is so evil also. That's like such like, a mean cat name.

JULIAN: Darkstripe.

LIZ: Also ShadowClan is just called ShadowClan.

PAZ: Right? There's also cats that I guess they're not Warrior Cats names, but we'll meet later the series that are extremely funny and extremely, quote unquote, "emo." So I think canon supports this, frankly. But I guess we can move on to the next point if you want.

LIZ: Yeah, I think this paragraph also has some spoilers so.

PAZ: Look away.

JULIAN: Oh, yeah, I can read it. Um, and edit out the spoilers. "The name that makes the character sound like a Mary Sue or Gary Sue."

LIZ: Oh my god.

JULIAN: And then they explain what a Mary Sue or Gary Sue is.

LIZ: Like Firepaw.

JULIAN: "These characters can be annoying in books and are major annoyances in role plays. For example, Gentleheart. This name makes no sense whatsoever, because a queen would have to be stupid to name their kit Gentlekit." I don't think so.

PAZ: I don't know.

LIZ: That's kind of nice.

PAZ: That's like naming your child after like a virtue you want them to have.

LIZ: That's fine.

JULIAN: Yeah, they're also mad about the heart suffix. Because it gives an impression of a kind and sweet cat. It's like well, maybe the cat is kind or sweet. This is fine. "Gentleheart is an example of how the heart suffix is often misused." Okay!

LIZ: You know what? The fucking wartorn society of cats who can't share could use a little more of this.

PAZ: Truly.

JULIAN: Okay, rule number whatever. The name has astronomy-related items in names or use prefixes like dream, angel, or spirit.

PAZ: Once again, they do have the concept of spirit, I think.

JULIAN: They super do. Okay, this is a good rule. The name has a first name that could be used as a real person's name, i.e. Susanclaw.

LIZ: Disagree. Why wouldn't you wanna be Susanclaw?

PAZ: Henryclaw.

LIZ: That's his backstory. He used to be a warrior, but he retired.

JULIAN: Oh, here's an important note though. "Please note I believe that you can do names like Monkeytail as long as the cat named is in a habitat that has monkeys. If the cats know what monkeys are, and monkeys are prominent in said area, the name Monkeytail makes sense. It also goes with the common sense rule, as a monkey's tail is one of the most prominent parts of the monkey. And Monkey is a name that isn't too dark sounding or like a Mary Sue/Gary Sue sound or anything we can consider babyish. But Bananaear makes no sense."

PAZ: I love Bananaear.

LIZ: Yes it does.

JULIAN: "Why? Even if the cats know what a banana is, what use would a banana have to them? It would serve practically no use for the medicine cats as something to heal with. Have the cats ever fretted about vitamin C and minerals in the books?"

PAZ: Maybe they should.

LIZ: Can cats eat bananas? Yes.

JULIAN: "And if the cats eat mostly freshkill, why would they resort to eating fruits, even if the clan/clans live in a jungle?" My cat loves pumpkin. Um, so I think this is, you know. "Still, avoid using names like Monkeytail in a Warriors naming contest as it can cause confusion among the judges."

PAZ: They end this paragraph of, frankly, brutal takedowns with a little smiley face.

LIZ: Cats can have banana as a treat, apparently.

JULIAN: And then the end of the post is that they want you to submit your names so that they can rate them.

PAZ: And they have some ratings.

LIZ: Oh my god.

JULIAN: They do. They only have two, though.

LIZ: I wonder why no one wanted to submit to them.

JULIAN: They have really ambitious-- or really hopefully put little categories for each of their-- 0 through 0.9 out of 10, 1 through 1.9 out of 10, etc, etc. And then they have two names. Do you want to read the names?

PAZ: Yes, the first name submitted is Cloudleg. It gets a rating of 3.2 out of 10. "Reason for rating: in a way, it goes against the common sense rule. After all, clouds don't have legs. It's sort of pretty but still not the prettiest name in the world. The name sort of gives the impression that Cloudleg has a problem walking properly. OP. I think this is a fine name. I'm gonna give this name--

JULIAN: I think Cloudleg's a great--

PAZ: I'll give it 9 out of 10.

LIZ: This is Kip's name.

PAZ: Oh true.

LIZ: Fluffy legs.

PAZ: Yeah.

LIZ: Cats have a little bit of abstract thought probably.

PAZ: They definitely do. They have cat heaven. I'm sure they think about clouds. The other name is Gingertail. The OP gives this a 7.7 out of 10 for this. "Reason for rating: it's rather simple and nice sounding, but the prefix can have two possibilities, ginger as in the spice, and ginger as in the color. While this name probably is pointing to the color, it's easy for some people to get mixed up. In general, good name. Smiley face." I did not even consider ginger the spice before this person decided that it--

JULIAN: Wait, so cats don't care about bananas but they do care about ginger?

LIZ: Wait, hold on.

PAZ: No.

LIZ: Can cats have ginger? Yeah. I mean, no.

JULIAN: Oh, they can't? Damn.

LIZ: No, they can't. It's--

PAZ: That makes sense.

LIZ: They're allergic to it.

JULIAN: I do appreciate that in the interest of like positive discourse on the Wands and Worlds forum, the first reply is someone going, "I don't agree at all. I'm totally on the other side of the spectrum. I'm not going to start an argument though. Smiley face. I can see you worked hard on the list, and although I can't agree with it, I can appreciate that you worked hard on it. Another smiley face."

LIZ: That's real passive-aggressive.

JULIAN: Which is really sweet.

PAZ: Sorry, can we please point out this person's signature? It's beautiful.

LIZ: Yes.

JULIAN: Which part of it?

PAZ: I don't even know where to start. That's that evil like lion lady from the Lion King II, I think. There's some text-- it's probably-- the text is very hard to read. It looks like it's probably song lyrics over top in transparent red and white.

JULIAN: Oh, it's from Rise Against. Yes. Don't worry.

LIZ: Oh my god.

PAZ: Oh, okay, good. But that's not all. There's two more parts to the signature. Some lyrics from the Postal Service.

LIZ: It's from "Such Great Heights."

PAZ: Uh-huh.

JULIAN: It's the lyric that you're thinking from "Such Great Heights."

PAZ: And the last part of this signature is a quote from King Lear.

LIZ: Full circle.

PAZ: "Tis the times' plague when madmen lead the blind."

JULIAN: Thank god.

LIZ: Who is Firepaw in King Lear?

[laughter]

JULIAN: Oh, no.

PAZ: This signature was a journey.

LIZ: Oh, it was so good.

JULIAN: I miss forum signatures so much.

PAZ: Me too.

JULIAN: What if I start adding a signature to all my tweets?

PAZ: Please.

LIZ: I will also do that if you do that. Let's do it. Wait, we should make a signature for our Twitter. Just-- just for like, just to have.

PAZ: Oh yeah, there has to be a signature maker. We can do that off mic.

LIZ: Yeah, it's called anyone with Photoshop.

PAZ: Um, the next comment is, "*remember Ebonycrow's Guides to Naming Warriors forum*" in roleplay like, asterisks. Then they say, "great guide. But there was a big fight." And then another roleplay asterisk, "*guilty.*"

LIZ: Aw.

JULIAN: Here's the part where I have to make a confession, which is that as a child I was absolutely a Sparrowheart. I had very strict like feelings about what names I thought were appropriate to name a cat. And when people did not choose those, I got really antsy and mean about it.

PAZ: Oh my god.

JULIAN: And now as an adult, I'm like the world is too large. Life is short, and you should name your cat Susanclaw if you want to.

PAZ: Yeah, I don't--

LIZ: Susanclaw is amazing.

PAZ: I don't remember being particularly like uptight over names, partially because I was always like role playing in the Neopets boards, and those just moved so fast, and you just stopped in whenever. You would always just make a name up in like a minute and then go in. It was kind of free for all, so it didn't matter. I do remember-- this wasn't a Warrior Cats RP, but I do remember being very very hurt when I joined another RP and I just did like some name like Ash or something, and they would they were like, wow, stupid name. You didn't put much effort into it.

JULIAN: Aw.

LIZ: No, Ash is great.

PAZ: That deeply hurt me. Kids are so mean.

LIZ: Kids are so mean. That's why I'm sure the person who wrote this is like 12.

JULIAN: Oh, yeah.

PAZ: Oh, absolutely.

JULIAN: All right, do we want to rate Kip Jazzman's, his name?

PAZ: Yes.

LIZ: Well, we've already got some dings against it, I'm afraid.

PAZ: Oh no.

LIZ: One, do cats have a concept of jazz? Two, man is a Twoleg concept as well. I don't know about Kip.

JULIAN: I am going to give it some points for sounding nice to me, though.

PAZ: Thank you.

JULIAN: I also think it should get points for being imaginative and creative.

PAZ: What's your score? What's your final score?

LIZ: 10 out of 10? Because I love Kip.

JULIAN: Yeah, I say 9.5 out of 10.

PAZ: Wow.

JULIAN: He loses 0.5 points for interrupting recording, but the rest of the points are for his pants.

PAZ: Yeah, I agree.

LIZ: Do we want to do Chickpea?

JULIAN: Sure.

PAZ: So if we want to take it as a Warriors name, would it be the two parts would be Chick and then pea?

JULIAN: I think they would, yeah. I mean, pea is a plant.

PAZ: I feel like cats would have a concept of chicks because those are animals. They know about that. Peas, I don't know. I don't know.

LIZ: They're beans. Cats probably know about bean pods.

PAZ: Do they?

LIZ: Like seeds.

PAZ: Well, I guess they can. Um, so if we're gonna say that, both concepts the cats would know about. So logical. Um.

LIZ: I think it also sounds great.

JULIAN: I think it probably does have to lose some points because that would imply that her kitten and apprentice names were Chickkit and Chickpaw, which don't really roll off the tongue. Unlike Jazzkit and Jazzpaw, which are excellent.

PAZ: Those are. Those are pretty good.

LIZ: I still want to give it 10 out of 10.

PAZ: Well, yeah, it's all 10 out of 10 because all these cats are 10 out of 10.

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: Um, and honestly, Sparrowclaw doesn't make the rules. Or sorry, Sparrowheart.

LIZ: Wherever you are. Probably around our age.

JULIAN: I hope they're doing good out there. Yeah. Sparrowheart, if you're listening to this podcast, thank you for your guide.

PAZ: They do start arguing in the comments between Sparrowheart and the user of the beautiful three-punch signature.

JULIAN: Well.

PAZ: so that's some Warriors history for us. And I look forward to finding more because it's all extremely good.

LIZ: I'm just looking at these comments. They're very, very good.

JULIAN: Oh, I'm really loving this art of someone's Warrior Cat OCS. Which is very sweet.

PAZ: That's very good.

LIZ: Is it Ashtail and Abby?

JULIAN: I think so. Yes.

LIZ: It is very cute.

JULIAN: It seems Abby is whoever they're dating at the time.

PAZ: Aw.

LIZ: Aw.

PAZ: Ah.

JULIAN: Again, signatures are good.

PAZ: Signatures are very good. And I'm really sad we've lost that.

LIZ: Are you guys seeing this one that's like, almost pitch black, but there's some like teal water effects over it, and there's just like a wolf face, and it has a little tilde, and it says wolf in cursive at the bottom?

JULIAN: Yeah. Well, that's because this person's username is Wolf.

LIZ: You can tell because their icon also says Wolf.

PAZ: Yeah.

LIZ: We've lost so much.

JULIAN: God. Well, is that it for us?

LIZ: I think it is.

PAZ: Yeah, I think that's, that's gonna be there for today. We went through a lot of topics. I think, maybe got a little lost in the weeds, but that's okay. Um, so for next week, we will be finishing Into the Wild, exciting, which will be chapter 22 through 25. And that will wrap up the first book.

JULIAN: Hell yeah.

PAZ: And then we'll be on to Ice and Fire, I guess, which is very exciting. So looking forward to that next week. And reminder that you can find this show @staircast on Twitter. And if you have any questions or anything, you can email us at [email protected]

JULIAN: We've had a couple people like @ us when they're listening to the show and like live tweet, and that's very fun for me to read.

PAZ: Yes, I love--

JULIAN: I love those.

PAZ: I love reading those. It's very good. And I love hearing other people's thoughts on the books like looking back.

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: But yeah, I guess that's gonna do it for us this week. Um, thank you everyone for joining us once again in our journey into the wild. Haha.

[laughter]

See you next week. May StarClan. Light your path. Bye.

LIZ: Bye.

[outro music]

PAZ: I think I have to go like lock Kip up somewhere. Hold on. Okay, hello.

LIZ: Hey.

JULIAN: Hello.

PAZ: Kip, I love you very much, but you only want to bother me when I'm doing something.

JULIAN: He has thoughts and opinions to share.

LIZ: What's his favorite warrior cat?

PAZ: I don't know.

LIZ: What would his warrior cat name be?

JULIAN: Oh, that is a good question.

PAZ: Is Jazzman not a valid Warrior Cats name?

LIZ: We've gone over this. Possibly.

JULIAN: We should run our cats' names or various cats' names through the Warrior Cat rules.

LIZ: Yes. We should.

PAZ: Yeah, we should when we get to that. Okay, where were we?

JULIAN: Bluestar kind of giving Yellowfang the benefit of the doubt.

#into the wild ep #transcript #ep 05 #tigerclaw's callout post

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