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slavonicrhapsody · 4 months

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Hello there huge fan of your blog and wasnted to get your thoughts on something, if that's ok! In one of the glintstone sorceries' descriptions there's a quote that goes "the moon and the stars will be together no more" hinting at why Rennala and the academy had a falling out. This led me to wondering about the title of Radahn, Starscourge. Is it possible that Radahn went into gravity magic not just bc of Leonard but bc of wanting to control the stars, the power of his mother's enemies? Thank you in advance!

Hello! Yes, I’ve definitely had the thought that Radahn might have had some beef with the glintstone sorcerers… but first, I think there are a ton of layers to this question to pick apart. WARNING: this became extremely long and meandering and I ended up answering several questions that have nothing to do with your question at all. SORRY! I hope it’s still interesting.

Anyway, as you say, the description of Carian retaliation reads,

“One of the sorceries of the Carian royal family. Swing your staff to dispel incoming sorceries and incantations, using their power to retaliate with glintblades. This was the Carian royal family's secret means to prepare against the disloyalty of the academy. The moon and stars would one day go their separate ways.”

The Carians were prepared for the event of the Academy rebelling against them… perhaps the Carian astrologers predicted this fate within the stars, or perhaps they knew not everyone at the Academy embraced Rennala’s teachings. The Lazuli Conspectus robe description also portrays the moon and stars as being two separate factions within the Academy: “Robe worn by scholars of the Lazuli Conspectus, singular among the greater Raya Lucaria Academy. These scholars, who sought to master Carian sorcery, instead learned to see the moon as equal to the stars. This robe, in the hue of the full moon, signifies their heresy.” The word “heresy” implies that other glintstone sorcerers of the Academy still viewed the stars as supreme even while Rennala was in charge.

Perhaps the biggest controversy between the Carians and the Academy was the matter of the primeval current sorcerers. Sellen tells us that Azur, Lusat, and herself were banished from the Academy “for attempting to restore the primeval current of glintstone sorcery.” She goes on to say, “The toothless pedantry peddled by the Carian royal family can rot for all I care. I want glintstone sorceries that open our minds, unbound by terrestrial taboos.” As we later find out, Sellen had been turning sorcerers into a Graven Masses which are “seeds of stars” created by primeval current sorcerers, and they became “a nightmare that would continue to haunt the academy.” According to the Graven Mass talisman, “The primeval current is a forbidden tradition of glintstone sorcery. To those who cleave to its teachings, the act of collecting sorcerers to fashion them into the seeds of stars is but another path of scientific inquiry.” It can be inferred that the primeval current sorcerers were expelled from the Academy under the leadership of Rennala because they were using other sorcerers in their grotesque experiments (Could Rennala have also used this as a perfect opportunity to solidify her hold on the Academy and eliminate sorcerers who didn’t agree with her leadership? Maybe!).

Now, what I believe connects this matter to Radahn specifically is two details. The first is Lusat’s imprisonment. Sellen tells us that after his banishment from the Academy, Lusat “languishes, imprisoned somewhere” and gives us a glintstone key that will let us cross the barrier “that keeps Master Lusat confined.” Later, she tells us that she heard Lusat had returned to Sellia, his home, after his banishment, and that she got the glinstone key off of a Sellian sorcerer. What this tells me is that after returning home to Sellia, Lusat was not welcomed, but imprisoned by the sorcerers there, his staff taken away... which means that the sorcerers in Sellia probably heard of Lusat’s crimes, and by imprisoning him are siding with the Carian royal family. We know that a young Radahn came to Sellia to study gravity sorceries from the Remembrance of the Starscourge, and from a Caelid sword monument, that “Radahn alone holds Sellia secure, and stands tall, to shatter the stars.” All of this points to some kind of relationship between Sellia and the Carian royals, and a hostility towards the primeval current sorcerers.

The second detail connecting the Carian-primeval current feud to Radahn is Jerren’s mission. Jerren is essentially Radahn’s right hand man. According to Iji, Jerren had made “an old promise” to get rid of “a longstanding Carian weed.” After Radahn is granted an honorable death, Jerren is now able to leave Redmane Castle to hunt down Sellen, a longtime thorn in the Carians’ side. Jerren came to serve Radahn “after spending time as a guest of the Carian royals,” and is loyal to the family through and through. Jerren was probably distracted from the goal of getting rid of Sellen when he and Radahn fought in the Shattering war, but I wonder if in the past, Radahn had also viewed Sellen as a personal enemy?

Since Radahn seems to be surrounded by people who oppose the sorcerers of the primeval current and uphold the decrees of the Carian royals, it makes sense for him to have felt this way himself. Did this influence his decision to challenge the stars, though? It’s possible, but I have two caveats toward the idea that he wanted to seize the power of his family’s enemies: one, even though the “moon and stars” are often positioned as two separate factions, the stars are still the origin of all glintstone sorcery, and the stars also “alter the fate of the Carian royal family,” who were not just sorcerers but astrologers — those who study fate within the stars… so the stars are still quite important to the Carians, and Radahn would know this. Two, it’s kind of unclear to me how halting the stars’ movement might have hindered the primeval sorcerers from achieving their goals… Sellen never seems to consider this to be a problem for her, only mentioning the halting of the stars when asked about Ranni’s destiny:

“The stars alter the fate of the Carian royal family. And the fate of your mistress, Ranni. But long ago, General Radahn challenged the swirling constellations, and in a crushing victory, arrested their cycles. Now, he is the force that repulses the stars. If General Radahn were to die, the stars would resume their movement. And so, too, would Ranni's destiny.”

Sellen doesn’t seem particularly personally inconvenienced by the stars being frozen, and in fact, the stars resuming their movement actually threatens her life: Iji says that “a certain sorceress has been dispossessed of her immortality,” and Sellen says that “A star has fallen, and my fortunes waver. someone may come for my life.” I think what this might mean is that back in the day, Sellen divined her fate by reading the stars (possibly with the help of Seluvis, since this was his official job, and we know he also helped her make a new body?), and she saw her own death… and now the only thing keeping her fate from coming to pass is the fact that the stars aren’t moving, so she’s functionally immortal. But that’s beside the point.

To understand Sellen’s goals, let’s look at what the primeval current actually is and consider the goals of the primeval sorcerers. The Founding Rain of Stars sorcery reads,

“The eldest primeval sorcery, said to have been discovered by an ancient astrologer. A sorcery of legendary status. […] Thought to be the founding glintstone sorcery. The glimpse of the primeval current that the astrologer saw became real, and the stars' amber rained down on this land.”

Sellen explains to us that the “stars’ amber” is glintstone:

“Our powers draw upon the powers embedded in glintstone, but what is the nature of such power? Glintstone is the amber of the cosmos; golden amber contains the remnants of ancient life and houses its vitality, while glintstone contains residual life. And thus, the vitality of the stars. It should not be forgotten that glintstone sorcery is the study of the stars and the life therein.”

The primeval current is the source of all glintstone and all glintstone sorcery. The last line can also be read as a dig at Rennala and her lunar magic. We know Sellen intends to “restore” and “hone” the primeval current, and with Azur and Lusat’s bodies to help her, “we, fallen children of the stars, shall beam with brilliance once again.” But what does Sellen mean by this? Why must the primeval current be “restored”? I have absolutely no idea. But what I can say is that primeval current sorcerers create graven masses in order to form “seeds of stars.” Azur and Lusat’s bodies, which Sellen needs to hone the primeval current, are near inorganic, turned into glintstone, each of them “nigh a child of the stars.” Then, Sellen’s quest culminates in her becoming part of a graven mass herself. It seems that the primeval current sorcerers are taking the idea of the inherent life within stars, and are attempting to BECOME stars themselves in order to become a part of or expand the primeval current… although this doesn’t seem to work out for Sellen in the end.

Anyway, all of this is to say that there’s heaps of evidence showing how the movement of the stars affects fortune and fate and the practice of astrology, but there doesn’t seem to be any direct evidence of an effect on the primeval current. It’s still possible that Radahn’s actions could have hindered the primeval current in some way, but I just can’t find any dialogue that suggests this. Of course, Radahn could have simply thought that halting the stars might thwart the primeval current sorcerers and in reality he ended up shooting his own family in the foot, but that’s pure speculation. If this were true, it would certainly be poetic! Personally, I still think Radahn’s reasons had much to do with Sellia and wanting to prove himself a hero, but I absolutely see merit to this idea.

#elden ring #elden ring lore #radahn #rennala #sellen #azur #lusat #asks #WOW this got long…. i ran into so many interesting tangents #also sorry for taking literal months to respond to this. now you know why

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