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lurkingshan · 3 months

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I've had all the different Love for Love's Sake interpretations rotating in my brain and kind of picking and choosing what I want to take from each of them, which is a very cool thing we can do with this show because it supports many different reads. I think for me I have landed on a few core ideas that I am stewing on the most:

Is Myungha in control of the game?

One thing I'm feeling pretty solid about is that my preferred interpretation is one where Myungha's consciousness is in control of the game. @jemmo and @biochemjess and @wen-kexing-apologist all offered up some thoughts about this that resonated with me and give me a framework that helps me make sense of the game glitches and server errors as manifestations of Myungha's emotional overwhelm and inability to accept love, rather than a creator forcing cruel choices and punishments on him. I like that idea a lot.

The initial assumption the show invites us to make is that the game world was created by the author based on his own novel, but I don't think that idea holds up as the show goes along. Because if this world we're in was truly based on the novel, I would expect we'd have seen some of it. Instead, we get a world that is populated by Myungha's own significant people--those he loved, those he lost, those he regretted--and no real hints about the novel world we're supposedly in. We never met the novel leads, for instance, or learned that Myungha had pre-existing knowledge of any other characters besides Yeowoon. So that tracks better with Myungha simply pulling his blorbo, the character he identified with most, into this afterlife world he created for himself.

Are Yeowoon and the romance "real" within this world of the show?

Which leads me to the next thing I'm stewing on. Is Yeowoon "real" in any meaningful sense within this universe? Is their relationship? Because functionally, Yeowoon is a mirror of Myungha and a stand in for his own self within the game world. Making Yeowoon happy becomes making Myungha happy. Loving Yeowoon is a form of self love for Myungha. One could argue that because the afterlife feels real to Myungha, it becomes real, and therefore everything that happens counts. But @troubled-mind mentioned in her post that she can't really latch onto the love story in this show because the reality is that Myungha has died and this afterlife is "wishful thinking." As an atheist, that resonates with me, and I think it's perhaps why I was not quite as emotionally moved by the romance ending as some of y'all seem to have been. Don't get me wrong, I thought it was beautiful. But I did not experience this as a happy ending to a love story in the way that some did. More than anything, I think I take it as a final bit of closure, that Myungha was able leave in peace having found some measure of love for himself in his final moments. I don't know that I am sold on the idea this means he is living a whole second life with Yeowoon.

So then, who is the author?

I have also been thinking a lot about who exactly this author is and how he's involved in this game world. @bengiyo suggested that he was someone who loved Myungha in life and created this world out of his own grief, and @twig-tea had suggested to me even before the show ended that the author was trying to help Myungha through the game. I see a logic to these reads, but I can't say either particularly resonated for me, in part because of what I mentioned above re: the cruelty of the game world if the errors are not self-inflicted by Myungha. @crapyouknowme suggested that the author is in fact a manifestation of the star Myungha wished upon, a loving presence that came to him because he yearned for it. I kind of like that idea personally, that this is another form of self-love Myungha willed into existence for himself. @dropthedemiurge wrote that in the end it seems all the text messages of love and yearning were from the author, and I do tend to agree. So under this interpretation, the author appears to Myungha and sends messages of love and guides him back into this game world with Yeowoon because Myungha wills these things for himself. I like that idea that Myungha is ultimately still the one in control of how he chooses to leave the world.

I think ultimately for me, I am arriving at seeing this story as less of a romance and more of a journey to self love and closure at the end of life. I do think there is a hopeful tone to the ending despite how dark the realities of Myungha's story are, and for me that hope is primarily based in his ability to love himself on his way out of this life.

#yes i am still thinking about this and no i do not intend to stop #love for love's sake #korean bl #kdrama #shan shouts into the void

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muraenide · 8 months

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Ghost Fire

Ghost Fire, or in Japanese, Onibi, are the ghost lights/spirits born from the corpses of humans and animals in Japanese folklore.

Disclaimer: the og concept of Onibi is very broad and what's known of it is only known very loosely. There are definitely several interpretations of what Ghost Fires are in adapted into several games, which are often more interesting than the original. I'm not a heavy gamer, but I welcome all interpretations and am willing to write them on my blog too, although I will stick to the version I'm personally most familiar with as it's the one I've grown up with.

Additionally, I know the wiki.pedia wrote "Demon Fire", but I personally think "Ghost" is closer to 鬼. This deserves more explanation but I think at this moment it's irrelevant to this post.

In the Coral Sea, Ghost Fires are the manifestation of the magic essence and consciousness of a dead mer. They come in the form of green lights and can be regarded as a species of their own. Ghost Fires are conscious, even if they are no longer simultaneous to when they're alive. Not all merfolk would turn into a Ghost Fire. Often, the birth of Ghost Fire is because a merfolk met their demise without fulfilling their dying wish. The reluctance to move on is so strong it causes them to manifest into Ghost Fires.

It's believed that every merfolk possesses their own Ghost Fires. When a merfolk is nearing their death, their Ghost Fire will become visible to the living hovering behind their shoulder. If they died a fulfilling death, their Ghost Fire simply dies out along with their last breath. But if their dying wish was not met and they desperately cannot move on without seeing it fulfilled, their Ghost Fires will emerge from their corpse sometime after their death and before they turn to seafoam.

Ghost Fires spend most of their time drifting around at sea, wandering aimlessly. Some are benign and have no desire to cause harm to the living, they might even lead lost mers back home if they encountered any, or play with merkids who are often found alone. Some will be more malign, leading clueless merfolk into kelp forest so deep they lose their way forever.

All Ghost Fires should rightfully belong to the "Edge", a short name for the "Edge of the World" where merfolk believe all dead mers go, as it is their version of the Afterlife. When a mer dies, they turn to seafoam and are "reincarnated" into the Edge of the World where they reunite with their loved ones. The gates of the Edge only opens once every year for 24 hours, during Halloween, and that is when the Ghost Fires will wander in and out. Once the gate closes, Ghost Fires on either side of the gate will have to live on that side for a year and wait until the next time the gate opens if they wish to go back.

This is also the association with fire that Jade will make on my blog. He doesn't see fire as death. Merely, it marks the end of one life and the birth of another. Which is why Jade is incredibly fascinated by the concept of fire, even if the ones he knew is not the same as the ones he sees on land.

#𖦹 ⋆꙳ ⁄ lore.

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dutchdread · 3 years

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"The promised land, I think I can meet her there".

This article argues that it's unreasonable to see the line as a romantic gesture from Cloud, and that an alternative interpretation of the line as a comment concerning the impending doom is more likely. __________________________________________________

People try to use this to prove that Cloud wants Aerith ever since 1997. Now lets be clear here, this interpretation is patently absurd as soon as you think about it for more than 2 seconds. Do you really think for a second that Square would end the game with Cloud randomly telling Tifa as they're about to die, "you know what I want to tell you before we die? I don't love you and I'm glad I'm dying so I can be with another woman in the afterlife"? They wouldn't, this is the most unreasonable story interpretation I've ever heard, whatever that line is meant to mean, it wouldn't be that. Let's be clear here, the only people who think that this line is a genuine argument in favor of Clerith, are people who are already Cleriths. They see the line, and find it to be in line with their beliefs, and it is. The problem is that that's not how science is done. The question isn't whether or not a piece of evidence is in line with your point of view, it's whether it disproves the opposite point of view, which in this case it doesn't. (Also see: "The Wittgenstein test") It should be noted that arguments like these do not do Cleriths any favors, because in addition to proving nothing, they show something fundamentally problematic about the Clerith view of the story. In order to believe that this line in incompatible with a Cloti interpretation of the story, there are a number of tangentially related positions that you'd have to defend. 1: It's impossible to want to be reunited with anyone except if you love them romantically. 2: Cloud is an absolute asshole who would dump a woman he just had sex with, just as they're about to die. 3: Tifa is the worlds biggest simp. 4: This is how SE wants you to see their characters. In one fell swoop of a bad story interpretation you've undermined the importance of all other forms of love, you've undermined the importance of Clouds character arc concerning guilt. You've basically trampled on those who suffer from mental health issues by simplifying their issues into love cliches, you've made a villain of Clouds character, made a mockery of Tifas character, and revealed that you don't understand basic storytelling.

This is the fundamental problem with these arguments that cause many of us to develop a distinct distaste for Clerith as a ship, because when Cleriths attempt to argue in favor of it, it often comes in the form insults towards all characters and stories involved. You could have a story about Cloud loving Aerith, but if defending said story requires you to argue that Cloud would leave a girl with two children, one of which is dying, for no other reason besides being lovesick, then that does a disservice to the characters, the story, and the franchise in general. In a sense, by trying to defend Clerith like this you're insulting the entirety of Final Fantasy. Are there people who are assholes? Yes, are there people who get straight up "pumped and dumped"? Yes. Is that the sort of hero that SE is trying to show us? Obviously not. (for more information regarding this I advise you read: Insane hobbits article where he touches on the differences between clean and messy narratives) If SE wanted to end the game with Cloud proclaiming his love to Aerith in some way, they wouldn't have Tifa hanging on his side while he's doing it, and she wouldn't respond with "yeah, lets go meet her" like the universe biggest simp. So what is actually said? Well, I am not a translator, but as far as I can tell Japanese doesn't have pronouns and the line generally refers to meeting people in the promised land, which includes Tifa in the people going, and it's not specifically about Aerith. Is Aerith included? Of course, she's probably even the main person to meet there, she's certainly singled out as the person talked about by certain supplementary materials, but it's not a romantic sentiment, it's a tragic "we're about to die" sentiment, meant to convey a more generally positive message about being "reunited" with those who have died. The more likely paraphrasing for this scene is: "Cloud asks for an answer from the planet, the planet reveals the lifestream, Cloud and Tifa realize they're about to die. Cloud muses that he thinks he gets it now, they're all going to die and be reunited in the lifestream, both with each other, as well as those who have died, with Aerith being the most obvious and recent example." So is there any evidence for this? Well, for one there is the storyboard for the scene:

c「帰るぞティファ」 t「え？」 c「俺達も帰ってからやることがあった。まだ…あの山の向こうを見てない」 t「うん…帰ろう」

Cloud: "I'm going home Tifa" Tifa: "What?" Cloud "We had something to do after we got home. We haven't seen the other side of the mountain yet ..." Tifa: "Yeah ... let's go home"

"the other side of the mountain" is a reference to the mountains of Nibleheim, where Tifa believed the dead went. In other words, this is either a reference to them going home because they have stuff to do, which ties into the general idea that Cloud and Co had to live in order for their sins to be forgiven, as is evidenced by:

“I’m going to live. I think that’s the only way I can be forgiven. All sorts of things… happened.” ~Cloud in case of Tifa.

Or more likely it's be a reference to how they're about to die. Neither interpretation says anything about this scene being intended to be a romantic sign towards Aerith. Now, of course, the line was changed, and intentions can change during development. But if we're unsure on what the meaning of a line is, then going back to the storyboard is a pretty good way to get context.

Page 27 of the FFVII Ultimania omega:

"They're talking about", confirming that this is a mutual discussion, and not Cloud in isolation.

Page 203 of the FFVII Ultimania omega:

Provides context for the intended ideas the line is meant to convey. It calls back to earlier concepts concerning death not being the end, and is something Cloud and Tifa talk about together.

From: Final Fantasy Art Museum movie card ( https://twitter.com/dorobbongie )

These are not prescriptive canon, but descriptively they can give us some indication of how we're supposed to interpret the line.

Also reinforces the idea that the final line is meant as a more inclusive statement concerning reunions after death. Taking these points into consideration it becomes unreasonable to take the "I think I can meet her there" as a shipping line between Cloud and Aerith. If it were:

SE wouldn't have hung Tifa from Clouds hips.

Wouldn't have had Tifa agree with the idea.

Wouldn't have done it as the two were about to die.

Wouldn't have the storyboard refer to a shared journey beyond the mountains.

And most importantly, SE wouldn't have followed it up with Cloud commenting moments later that he's going to live in order to atone for his sins, and that things would be different now that he has Tifa. Clearly meeting again in the afterlife was more of an immediate danger rather than an immediate goal:

As Tifa looked away from the sky towards the ground, she was fearful of the future. However, Cloud beside her chose to smile gently. It was a smile that she hadn’t seen before during their journey. Cloud noticed her gaze and asked, “What’s wrong?” “Cloud, you’re smiling.” “I am?” “Yeah.” “It all starts now. A new…” Cloud looked for the right words. “A new life.” “I’m going to live. I think that’s the only way I can be forgiven. All sorts of things… happened.” “That’s right…” “But when I think about how many times I’ve thought about how I was going to start a new life, it’s funny.” “Why?” “Because I’ve always failed everything.” “That’s not funny.” “After this … I think I’ll be okay.” Cloud was silent for a long time before he spoke again. “Because I have you this time.” “You’ve always had me.” “What I mean is kind of different,” Cloud answered with another smile. -Case of Tifa; revised; released with ACC.

__________________________________________ thank you "thelifestream.net" for some of this information, as well as Kagesakura (https://otp-oasis-heavenxearth.tumblr.com).

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ryukyuan-sunflower · 4 years

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Mugen: The Embodiment of Shintoism’s Redemptive Delinquent, Susanoo-no-Mikoto

Before I get into this Samurai Champloo analysis, I first want to make this clear that this is all interpretations I have made. There’s no actual direct information about the Shinto stuff (that I’ve seen), but I found a lot of parallels. There’s also a lot of variations in Shinto myth! So you may find some different but similar details.

To begin, one would at first think Mugen would be a representation of Amaterasu, Kami of the Sun, because of his association with red, fire, the sun, and the rooster in his title image. (Rooster’s represent the dawn and they were used to lure out Amaterasu from a cave). And in contrast, Jin would be associated with Susanoo, God of the Ocean and Storms, because of his association with water, and the aquatic fish in his title image. However, based on everything I am about to list, it is the exact opposite. Mugen and Jin are supposed to be like Yin and Yang, their elements canceling each other out. However, the two do possess traits of one another. For Mugen, it’s Jin’s samurai honor and morality. For Jin, he has Mugen’s stubbornness to not follow those he considers unworthy.

Mugen and Susanoo’s Personalities

Susanoo in his earliest myths, is seen in an extremely negative light. He is violent, rude, wild, arrogant, and loathed by the other Kami for his impulsive actions. In particular, his older sibling Amaterasu despises him. She by comparison, is benevolent and calm. He is the embodiment of chaos in stark contrast to his sister who represents “the balance of the universe”. Susanoo’s appearance is also supposed to be disheveled.

Susanoo, along with his two siblings, were born after his father Izanagi cleansed his face, after visiting the polluted underworld known as Yomi.

But...while Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi were born from Izanagi’s eyes, Susanoo was born from Izanagi’s nose last. The Kami believe that Susanoo had already absorbed some of the impurities of the underworld, and was tainted at birth.

This idea of being “lesser” fits very much in how Mugen is treated by society. The Ryukyuan people were heavily subjugated and experienced severe discrimination by the Japanese.

Ocean And Storms Symbolism

Susanoo is most notably the Kami of the Ocean, Storms (particularly rainfall) and Harvest (also because of rainfall). Later though, he ends up becoming the Kami associated with Love and Marriage. This will be explained further later.

Mugen has a heavy affiliation with the ocean, because of his previous occupation as a pirate and being born and raised in the penal colony island known as Taramashima which is near Miyakoshima in the Ryukyus. It’s the circular island on the bottom left, below.

We know Mugen is from here because the black figures that try to send him to the afterlife are known as Paantu. Paantu are deities from a Miyako Island festival that cast out evil spirits by throwing sacred mud on houses and people. In addition, Taramashima was used as a penal colony for Ryukyuan criminals during this time period, and is affiliated with Miyakoshima since it is so close by.

Also, in one of his most defining moments, he swims and emerges from the ocean in episode 25 to save Fuu.

More interestingly, Mugen is definitely associated with storms and typhoons (heavy tropic storm).

The Ryukyuan Islands have a long association with typhoons, because they were so common there throughout history, causing much damage and famine. In World War II, the Battle of Okinawa, known as the bloodiest Pacific battle, was called “The Typhoon of Steel”. In 1972, Okinawa made the flower of the coral tree or the “deigo”, their prefectural flower.

These flowers can be seen in episode 14, during Mugen’s flashback.

What is interesting...is deigo flowers are a symbol of disaster or catastrophe, namely typhoons. There is an Okinawan belief that the more deigo flowers bloom, the more typhoons there will be. In this episode, which is all about Mugen’s past, we are given double symbolism of the ocean and storms, when he nearly drowns during a severe rainstorm.

In addition, while Mugen’s sword is never named in the anime or manga, his blade is called “Typhoon Swell” in the Samurai Champloo: Sidetracked PS2 video game.

Fall From Grace and Rivalry with Amaterasu

Because of Susanoo’s bad attitude, chaotic personality, and destructive nature, Izanagi, chief of the Gods deemed Susanoo unworthy to live in the Heavens. So he was banished.

Accepting his fate, Susanoo decided to visit his sister Amaterasu before his departure, who had long been his rival that he fought with often.This is largely because Amaterasu as Izanagi’s first child, had divine right to rule, while Susanoo was the youngest and was believed to have impurities. Their rivalry is a symbolism of sunshine versus rain. Both are needed for the harvest, but too much of either causes famine.

This sounds a lot like Mugen and Jin, who cancel each other out.

When Susanoo went to see Amaterasu, the lands shook, and Amaterasu grew suspicious he was causing trouble, so she met him dressed in men’s clothing and in armor. To prove he had good intentions in saying farewell, Susanoo challenged her to a contest of who could create the most gods, in order to prove his sincerity.

Amaterasu took his sword, and broke it, forming three male kami. Susano took her necklace and broke it, forming 5 female kami from the magatama beads. There’s some variations to who exactly won. One says that Susano raged happily since he made more. Another says Amaterasu used trickery, and told him that the 5 female goddesses belonged to her, since they were made from her necklace and the 3 male gods were his since they came from his broken sword. This then infuriated him.

This is similar to how Mugen and Jin broke each other’s swords in episode 26, and neither really won.

Either way, Susanoo went wild, either from rage or pride and committed several heinous deeds, namely destroying Amaterasu’s rice fields and defecating in her palace. He also flayed and killed a holy horse and threw it at Amaterasu’s holy loom, which killed one of her servants.

The holy horse seems to be important to me.

Mugen’s last antagonist of the series are the three Satsuma brothers. In particular, Umanousuke is his biggest enemy who had kidnapped Fuu, tied her to a cross, and brutally tortured Mugen after he gave up his sword to free her. I am no expert, but from what I can gather, “nousuke” in a name, means second in command beneath a lord. And “Uma” means “horse”.

After his belligerent acts, Susanoo was then thrown from the Heavens to inhabit the earthly plane, which is considered to be Japan. Similarly, after Mugen’s pirating in Satsuma, that negatively impacted Umanousuke and his brothers, Mugen finally made it to Japan.

Susanoo and Mugen’s Redemption: Saving a Woman

Despite having been seen as a wild and evil God, there is one story that redeems him, showing him as heroic, and also allows him to reconcile with his sibling.

After Susanoo was cast out of the Heavens, he walked the lands of Japan. This is similar to Mugen being shunned by society for his astigmatism of his prison tattoos, as well as being an illegal alien in Japan, since he hails from the Ryukyuan Kingdom, which at this time period, is in a very complicated relationship between China and Japan.

It is while Susanoo is in the land of man, that he for the first time, is shown actually caring for another person: a young girl.

In his travels, he meets a sorrowful, elderly man and woman who are weeping over their daughter. Susanoo curiously asks why they are crying.

They tell him that they have lost seven of their daughters to a sea serpent named Yamata-no-Orochi (8 forked serpent) who has devoured them year after year. Now, it is time for the sea serpent to devour their last and youngest daughter: Kushinadahime.

In an uncharacteristic act of sympathy, Susanoo offers to help them. He tells the old couple to give him their daughter so he can protect her.

Upon entering the teahouse of episode 1, which was owned by an elderly couple...Mugen meets Fuu for the first time and saves her.

Susanoo transforms Kushinadahime into a small comb and hides her in his hair so that the serpent can not find her. Then, he goes off to kill the giant snake. He gets the serpent drunk off of very strong sake, and slays it.

From the serpent’s tail, Susanoo acquires the Ame-no-Murakumo-no-Tsurugi (the sword of gathering clouds). This sword has come to represent virtue.

After saving the girl, Susanoo asks her father for the girl’s hand in marriage. And then, after this, it would seem his new wife had tamed his tumultuous heart. She becomes venerated as the Kami of Rice and bears his 5 children. Many temples and festivals honor them together to this very day!

It is after this point, that Susanoo is no longer seen merely as the violent, antagonistic god of storms. He also becomes venerated as the God of Love and Marriage because of his heroism and love for the girl he saved.

A violent, belligerent sinful killer who falls from grace...who is redeemed by protecting a woman and becoming a hero...

You probably see where I’m going with this. Mugen and Fuu are heavily implied to have a subtle romance in the series. But if you’re confused by this and need sufficient evidence, please let me know and I’ll provide my many posts that explain it in detail. I will merely bring up one scene here, in order to tie Mugen’s connection with Susanoo, who has become the God of Love.

In episode 21, Sara tells Mugen “Powerful hatred and rage swirl within you. I cannot tell if it is sadness. It is as if you have never once been loved.”

When Mugen falls to the ground, and Sara readies her blade to kill him, Fuu jumps across his body to shield him from Sara, and begs her not to kill him. In this moment, Sara gasps, and spares Mugen’s life. In this moment, she realizes she was wrong. There is one person who does love him, enough to put her own life at risk.

This is very similar to Susanoo. Up until the point of saving Kushinadahime, he was hated by all the Gods, including his own family. But when he saved her life, she married him, implying her appreciation and love for him.

“In Search of New Lands, I Build a New House”

Immediately after marrying Kushidahime, the lovers travel around Izumi before they can find a suitable place to live. Upon arriving in Suga, Susanoo happily states "Coming to this place, my heart is refreshed.” and then built a lovely palace for him and his wife. Upon its completion, Susanoo composed a song.

The many-fenced palace of IDUMO:

“Of the many clouds rising— To dwell there with my spouse Do I build a many-fenced palace

Ah, that many-fenced palace!”

In Episode 14, during Mugen’s flashbacks, a folk song called “Obokeuri Eeumi” plays. Because it is possibly Ryukyuan (or from Kyushu) , and also deals heavily with poverty, and being unable to sustain one’s family, it is safe to say the perspective could be Mugen’s. It is especially important that the very last image he sees when the last lyric of the song plays is Fuu’s face. This last lyric is about the narrator’s lover.

Obokeuri Eeumi (Obtain Our Bearings):

In search of new lands, I build a new house I thatch the house with reed stalks, gathered neatly in bundles. I thatch the house with reed stalks, gathered neatly in bundles. At the stone wall, let us celebrate the golden house, that was built by a hundred carpenters. At the stone wall, let us celebrate the golden house, that was built by a hundred carpenters. Let us celebrate the golden house, that was built by a hundred carpenters. August is fast approaching, and yet I have nothing to wear I want to dress up, so brother, will you lend me just one sleeve? I wish to dress my children and loved ones… in the one kimono that I own. As for me, I will wear vines… that I plucked deep in the mountains. The light of the harvest moon shines down, illuminating the world with its divine light. When my lover sneaks in to visit me, I wish that the clouds would hide that light just a little.

Both songs are about building a house to live in with one’s loved ones, with a mention of encroaching clouds. Because Susanoo composed his song, and Obokeuri Eeumi specifically plays for Mugen’s near death experience, these songs are reflections of their characters.

Making Amends With the Rival

At some point, before or after building his home, he visits Amaterasu, his long time rival, and offers his sister the sword he acquired from killing the snake, so that the two may finally reconcile. This sword makes up the three Imperial Regalia, along with the Yata no Kagami mirror and the jewel Yasakani no Magatama. After this moment, Amaterasu and Susanoo are no longer bitter enemies, and finally accept one another as siblings.

On the same journey of redemption that Mugen took, in which he saved Fuu time and time again, by the end, Mugen was able to reconcile with his longtime rival, Jin.

More Minor Amaterasu and Jin Symbolisms

It is from Amaterasu that all Japanese emperors claim descent. For that reason, she is the embodiment of the Japanese people. I think this is very similar to Jin, who is a representation of the ideal Japanese samurai with all of its virtues.

When Amaterasu fled from the heavens because of Susanoo’s many insults, the world became a dark and stormy place, because there was no longer any sun. Amaterasu did not want to leave the cave as she grieved for the servant Susanoo had killed. Though it might be reaching, I saw this very comparable to episode 11 of Samurai Champloo, where the trio were stranded in Hamamatsu with perpetual rain. Here, Jin states “I hope that the rain will never stop. Then, I can stay here forever.” when in reference to staying with Shino.

Amaterasu was also insulted by her husband Tsukuyomi for killing her friend, the Kami of Food, and thus never saw him again. This is a representation of the Day and Night cycle, since Tsukuyomi is the Kami of the Moon. I found this similar to Jin having to part from Shino for three years because of her stay at the Divorce Temple. In addition to that, he met with her at night when he purchased her at the brothel. But when the morning came, she told him it was “time for the fairytale to come to an end.”

When Jin parts ways with Shino, the bridge they met on is shown one last time. Except this time, there is no more rain. There is only sunlight.

This is a representation that he must continue on his own journey for the samurai who smells of SUNflowers, for it is his duty, just as Amaterasu reluctantly left her cave at the behest of the other Gods...because it was her responsibility to have the sun rise in the sky again.

In conclusion

Mugen and Susanoo were both hated and considered evil. Both were outcasts. But their chivalrous actions in saving a young girl they cared about redeemed them.

Mugen and Susanoo both had a rival that was their polar opposite, but in the end, the two were able to reconcile and value one another.

(And I found another excuse to ship Fuugen.)

#samurai champloo #mugen samurai champloo #fuugen #anime #susanoo #jin samurai champloo #fuu samurai champloo #shinichiro watanabe

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lucarioisinthevoid · 3 years

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a Series of stupid ideas and misfortune (not sure how to ask the characters from this yet.) how is everything plus dave doing? also something for you, there is no henry in that universe right? or he just is dead and doesn't exist there

For asking the other characters, uh- I don’t know either. I considered making it a whole point of the blog, like that you can actively ask them like normal and these specific people answer (Davetrap for Dave, etc.), but then the epilogue thing happened and yeah. This blog is a mess, you guys get what you’re paying for! Anyways, onto the questions at hand:

Oh, there is a Henry! I mean- was. It takes place after dsaf 2, or at least the lore I could get from there (RIP everything to do with BlackJack, never found anything about that until it was far too late). Henry was nulled and voided and didn’t find a vessel in time to make his way back. At a certain point resisting the void is not even about willpower anymore… it erodes you from where you pay the least attention… Okay but because I’m cripplingly afraid of the concept of death being permanent and souls being destroyed, making you unable to think, to exist, joining the great dark a very soft person who hates when people disappear, even if they’re objectively better off doing so: Henry is basically gone, but the blood pact he (unwillingly) and Dave made prevented him from actually disappearing and having his soul evaporating in the void. Instead the void consumed everything it could- basically memory, personality, capabilities. So in theory, it would be possible to remove Henry’s soul from Dave’s and send him to the afterlife ending in potential reincarnation (which IS a thing in my works even if I leave it up for interpretation) OR have him be revived. Thing is- why would anyone want to do that? Not only is he an untrustworthy psychopath by nature, he would also lack all the skills and knowledge he had before, being forced to relearn it from the very beginning. It might be easier a second time around, but it’ll still take a shitton of time!

>I would consider it super funny, because it would mean I get to have feral Henry (there’s a reason he could possess Old Sport) run around, but no in-universe excuse, so all I get to do is make stupid AUs and DREAM. - - -

The restaurant was SHINING. GLITTERING. GLOWING. Someone spilled radioactive waste all over it. And it was to the only three non-people in the world to clean it up! THAT’S RIGHT! “LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, GIVE IT UP FOOOOOOOOOOOOR OOOOOOOOOOOOOLD SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORT!” Under cheering and applauding, Old Sport stepped into the restaurant waving to cheers from all sides, then he jogged towards the closet with the cleaning supplies. “NEEEEEXT UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVETRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!” Being objectively way cooler than the Orange Guy, the giant bunny jumped through the door, allowing the momentum to carry him forward as he slid through the suspect liquid, splashing it everywhere, before giving an extremely badass s p i n, ending in a pose, before he bowed and moved towards the cleaning closet as wall. “LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAST, BUT NOT LEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAST- SECURITY PUPPET!” Floating from their box gracefully, the machine bowed directly, before moving instantly towards the closet. “THAT IS IT DEAR AUDIENCE, THAT IS THE LINE UP IN THE ULTIMATE CLEANING CONTEST AND-“ Old Sport who was starting to put the radioactive liquid into plastic bags, fully intending to throw them down some of Henry’s stupid workshops, shortly gave the Rockstar Freddy a judging look. “Hey! Why aren’t you helping?!” Upset the four-armed bear instantly shut up, glaring down. “Excuse?! I’m doing a WAAAAAY more important job and-“ Funtime Chica piped up. “We slip too much! We would break ourselves!” As though on cue, Dave slipped, landing on the neon green floor, groaning. “… well it ain’t stopping me, so-“ “We’re a bit pricier than you, old man.” Freddy instantly clapped back, before high-fiving Chica. “I can crush both of ya like bugs!” Old Sport was already looking at the floating puppet again though. “… wait, why can it float again? I’m sure you told me, but all the radiation is making me dizzy.” “Magic.” Chica answered. “Invisible strings!” Freddy guessed. “Magnets.” The Security Puppet answered calmly, continuing his work. Dave shrugged. “Don’t worry too much.” “Invisible strings would have been fun.” Disappointed Freddy mumbled. “Stupid magnets, magnets can’t do that stuff, we’re not in some cheap scifi from the sixties-“ As Dave was getting out the flamethrower to make the radioactive vapor everyone else’s problem, he laughed, harshly. “CHRIST! Can ya imagine?! If it were attached to strings that were bein’ moved by a computer system, then the Marionette would be in the computer system of the whole location! People would drop like flies!” It took another moment, before they noticed the Anon that had materialized out of nowhere, making all of them jump, as well as the two colorful people slip, dropping painfully. Now both of them were green! “Look, Sportsy, partner-look-! Ain’t that cute-” You wouldn’t get your answer here. Right outside the restaurant, with a security barrier, a small Phone Guy and a big bear stood, staring onto the streets, smoke coming out of the black bear. As the Anon approached, both of them looked up at them. “A-ah. Apologies, potential customer, but uhm- so uh, a few events happened and uh- we’re KINDA closed, so yeah I- I would r-recommend-“ “Fuck off.” “LEFTY! DON’T!” The bear chuckled to himself, glancing at the Anon out of one eye. “… why are you even here?” The Anon repeated their ask. Breathing out, the hidden Marionette shifted. “How we are doing… okay I guess. Considering everything.” “Like the tornado.” “After the earthquake.” “With the thunderstorm.” Both of them slowly sighed and the Phone Guy glanced at the asker, the dial shifting. “Uhm- I’m really, really sorry we don’t have better news! We’re- going to be open soon. Once new year starts, I’m sure w-we can have a grand-reopening!” “I wish we wouldn’t.” Marion growled. “E-EVERYONE IS EXCITED. RIGHT. YES. EVERYONE. THIS- Th-THIS IS A GREAT RESTAURANT THAT EVERYONE LOVES!” “Nobody got hurt in the events, so there’s that.” The bear mumbled, slightly muffled. “That’s- that’s true!” Relieved over having good news, Phone Guy nodded frantically. “The kids were fine. They come over sometimes to see if the place is okay to enter again, but uh- well. You just missed them, I, uh-“ “We’re not letting them anywhere NEAR this place. Especially with the toxic waste. And you should probably leave too.” “I-if you want to talk to them, maybe come back some other time? But uh- don’t breath in anything dangerous until then.” They watched as the Anon walked off.

#Dave Miller #old sport #I don't know who else I should really tag and dear god I'm tired #the thing freaked out on me for some reason I hope it's fixed now

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courtingstars · 5 years

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Notes for The Vanishing Prince, Chapter Five

All right, here we go! Chapter Five has a bunch of stuff that I’ve been looking forward to include in the series for a loooong time. There were also a few surprises that popped up when I wrote it, particularly the revelation about this moment in KnB canon:

So yeah, if you were ever wondering how or why Bokushi came up with that idea, well… I guess I made up a theory about that? //nervous laughter Fair warning, it’s probably about as disturbing as you’d expect. And on that note…

Content Warning: A brief mention of the history of Japanese ritual suicide.

Cut for rambling about Japanese monsters and ghosts, the Akashi estate in Kyoto, the Akashi family crest, and various notes related to the Akashi family’s history…

Youkai and Japanese Ghosts

I like to think that the night scene in Gion is pretty much the moment when this series transforms into a Miyazaki movie. XD There are so many interesting monsters and ghosts in Japanese legends, you could spend a lifetime learning about them! But I figured I’d give a super-quick overview of the supernatural creatures that were featured in this scene. (Also, I definitely recommend yokai.com if you would like to learn about supernatural creatures from Japanese folklore. It’s an amazing resource with a lot of great illustrations!)

Youkai are basically mythical Japanese monsters. There are also yuurei, “vengeful ghosts” who used to be humans. These spirits can exhibit different characteristics and behaviors, depending on the legend. Youkai in particular are generally thought to live in the spirit world, a sort of parallel realm that humans can’t normally see.

The spirit Furihata sees at the shrine is meant to be a kitsune, a fox spirit. (Also my favorite youkai, because they’ve got that whole mythical shape-shifting trickster vibe. //laughs) Kitsune can appear as humans, often beautiful women. Sometimes they even marry humans, and aren’t revealed to be foxes until years later. Or they may lure a human into the spirit world, only for the person to come back and find out that a really long time has passed in the world of the living while they were gone. (There’s also some interesting historical stuff about fox spirits supposedly possessing people, usually young women, but I won’t go into that here!)

The first spirits Furihata sees on the bridge are two types of one-eyed youkai. The hitotsume-nyuudou generally looks like a priest, and can sometimes shape-shift to gigantic proportions. (There are famous stories about them from the Kyoto region, which is one reason I chose to include one in this scene!) Meanwhile, the childlike hitotsume-kozou are weaker, more mischievous youkai. They appear dressed like little boys, and often have long very tongues. Some of them also have a preference for tofu, which seemed appropriate for this fic? //laughs

The blue flames Furihata sees on the bridge are probably hitodama, which are manifestations of dead people’s souls. This is why in Japanese ghost stories, ghosts are often portrayed as having blue flames floating around them. It’s a classic ghost trope, basically, which is why Furihata is so scared when he sees them. (Even though hitodama, unlike other types of “fireball youkai,” are generally pretty harmless!)

I also briefly mentioned a few more youkai, included the famous tanuki. The female spirit in kimono with the long, stretched-out neck is a rokurokubi. Finally, while I left it pretty vague, the spirit crouching in an alleyway is meant to be a “hungry ghost” or gaki. According to Buddhist beliefs, this is the soul of a person who has been condemned to suffer in the afterlife, often by experiencing extreme hunger or thirst. Believers sometimes leave offerings of various kinds for them, to help ease their suffering.

Supposedly, youkai often appear at twilight. I’ve also read stories where they appear on or underneath a bridge, so I thought that would be a cool element to include in the scene. Kyoto is a common setting for a lot of tales about youkai, although every area of Japan has fascinating myths about them.

“That’s Why I Like You So Much”

This was one of those parts where writing in English didn’t translate easily to a story about Japanese characters… I’m not fluent in Japanese (like, at all XD), but even with the little bit I know, it can get tricky to figure out how to show what a Japanese speaker would say/do in a situation, when it’s not quite what a Western English speaker might say/do? (It’s weird how much language can convey cultural standards, to the point that when you translate it directly, it doesn’t always make sense.)

So Furihata’s line when he’s half asleep would probably be something along the lines of “Dakara suki da”or “Dakara daisuki da.” (I’m leaving the exact line open to interpretation, because reasons? //laughs) In Japanese, when you’re interested in someone romantically, you generally say “I like you” or “Suki da.” (“Suki desu” is the more formal version, or you can also say “Suki da yo” to add emphasis.) So it has strong cultural associations with love confessions and crushes. “I really like you” or “Daisuki da” is a more intense version, closer to “I love you.” Some of the nuances of this are explained in this blog.

Either way, you’re still technically saying that you “like” someone. In fact, it’s the same way you’d say you like your favorite food, or you’re a fan of a certain hobby. Which is why the phrase could be kind of ambiguous, in theory… But attaching it to a person has definite connotations, which is why in the chapter, Akashi goes on to think this:

“He must have misheard, he told himself. The wording was somewhat odd, and out of place. Still, whatever Furihata had said, the emotion behind it seemed clear enough. It was the same simple, honest affection, that Akashi had come to recognize and treasure.”

(Oh, Oreshi. Your denial is so deep at this point? //laughs)

Anyway, this note is really just to point out that a lot of the time, I have no idea what I’m doing when I try to translate cultural norms between Japanese and English. XD; (Especially because I’m a clueless American with zero secondary language skills? //laughs) But it is something that occasionally factors into how I write a scene. I try to make sure that everything still makes sense for English speakers, but it can get kind of tricky when certain cultural things come up, and Akashi’s thought process here was one of those instances.

(On the other hand, it was a little easier to portray why Akashi and Furihata holding hands in public was an odd/uncomfortable experience for both of them… Even though in theory, the cultural reasons for it are a bit different/more complex in Japan compared to Western countries. But there was enough overlap there that I figured it still made sense?)

The Akashi Estate in Kyoto

It was so much fun to finally get to write about the Kyoto estate! It’s been a setting in this series before—mostly in The Fast Train to Kyoto—but those scenes were from Akashi’s perspective. Since it’s so familiar to him, he didn’t really go into detail about what the mansion looks like. I have a lot of headcanons about how the family estate developed… In my head, they used to live in more traditional-style buildings, but various heads of the family decided to update the estate over the years. The current building is a grand Western-style mansion, built by one of Akashi’s great grandfathers. I saved some photos to Pinterest for a general idea of what it looks like, including this and this.

I really wanted it to be a super fancy, over-the-top kind of place—and also visually different from the Akashi home in Tokyo. So it’s bigger and brighter, and the exterior is made of pale stone. Meanwhile, the Tokyo home is smaller and darker and the outside is made of red brick. Plus, the Kyoto residence includes a lot more land around it… Which will be covered in a future chapter!

I also enjoyed deciding what Akashi’s rooms would look like, compared to his rooms in Tokyo. Though to be honest, I see them as pretty similar, just bigger? //laughs The main difference is that instead of a canopy, his bed in Kyoto has a big fancy headboard with curtains built into the wall over it. (I got this idea while hunting for pictures of fancy beds online, no surprise there. XD) For an idea of what it looks like, this is pretty close to what I pictured in my head, but I also really liked this bed, and this is one of the most extra things I’ve ever seen. //laughs I also thought this room was awesome with the darker palette. I have a ton of photos like that on that Pinterest board, which brings me to…

This is probably as good a time as any to mention that I made a Pinterest board for The Vanishing Prince! It has LOTS of cool photos for pretty much every scene in the fic so far (and no spoilers, yay!), including ideas of what the interior of Akashi’s mansion might look like and some seriously GORGEOUS photos of the Gion district in Kyoto at night. There’s also some youkai illustrations and examples of samurai armor and kamon crests. Speaking of which…

The Akashi Kamon (or Family Crest)

Basically, a kamon is similar to the idea of heraldry/family crests in Western countries, in that a lot of Japanese families have one. This is especially true for powerful or “aristocratic” families that can trace their lineage back over many generations, so naturally, the Akashi family needed one! And let me tell you, I went on a JOURNEY to decide what theirs might look like? //laughs I researched a lot of different kamon designs, and while I had already decided it would include a chrysanthemum (the traditional crest of the Emperor and Imperial family, but sometimes incorporated into other family crests in different ways), I didn’t know what else should be in it. I toyed around with some different traditional motifs, like a peony or myouga ginger, but then I got a better idea…

Some of you may remember that a few years ago, there was a line of official Kuroko no Basuke merchandise that included traditional Japanese handicrafts and fabrics. What I liked most about it was the fabric they chose for each of the characters, because they all had some cool symbolism that matched the characters really well. I vaguely remembered that somebody posted about it here on Tumblr (here’s that post, which I dug up after the fact!), but I couldn’t remember what Akashi’s fabric meant. It’s a bit more intricate than everybody else’s because of course it is:

Even though I couldn’t remember what the pattern was, I figured it could be good to include in his family crest in some way? (Since flowers are often included in kamon.) So after some hunting, I figured out that his design includes bamboo and a phoenix flying over a Paulownia tree. The post I linked includes some more details about how these symbols are connected to the Emperor. Also, in Eastern mythology, phoenixes are believed to live in Paulownia trees. They’re believed to bring good fortune to rulers, which is probably why the Paulownia tree is so associated with royalty. Not surprisingly, the tree is also used frequently in Japanese crests—to the point that it’s even used in kamon for the Japanese government. Naturally, I thought the impressiveness of it would be a good fit for the Akashi family as well!

I drew a doodle of what the Akashi kamon in the fic looks like, something like this:

I’ll probably redraw it if I ever use it in actual fan art, but it gets the idea across! The kamon that I added to the Pinterest board includes some examples of how Paulownia trees and phoenixes have been included in other historical crests.

In any case, that’s how the Akashi kamon in this series ended up having a bunch of epic symbols in it! Which seemed appropriate, given the family it represents. XD (There’s also some hidden/secret significance in the design, specifically the part that appears to be two phoenix feathers… But I’ll probably end up going into that later!)

Akashi’s Family History

And now for the big revelation of the chapter… I’ve been wanting to explore the history of the Akashi family for a while, since it’s tied to some of the major themes of this series. The story Bokushi tells in this chapter is definitely meant to be more of a “family legend” than anything historical. But I did do some research on Japanese history, warfare, and legends to try to come up with a story that would fit culturally, while still having a “mythical” kind of feel to it.

I’ve mentioned before that my version of the Akashi family is meant to be a zaibatsu, which is basically a super powerful business family. Their influence tends to get exaggerated in fictional settings like Kuroko no Basuke—in reality, the zaibatsu don’t exist to that degree anymore—and my fic does this as well. It also adds a bit of a twist: before becoming successful in trade and finance, the Akashi family began as a clan of feudal lords.

Feudal Japan was partially governed by local lords called daimyos—who could be descended from the nobility, but weren’t always—and these lords ended up having a lot of power during certain time periods. This could be especially true if they were skilled in warfare and/or employed a lot of samurai. So in the story Bokushi tells, the Akashis were essentially a daimyo family who tried to become even more powerful, and then failed in a really tragic way.

I think most people know the basics about samurai armor, katana swords, and so on, so I won’t really go into those topics…. I did include several examples of samurai armor and weapons over on the Pinterest board I made, so you can get an idea of what the display room in this chapter looks like. (Or you can always google “samurai armor,” that works too! XD) Visors on samurai helmets were sometimes stylized like youkai monsters, to make them appear more intimidating on the battlefield. The Akashi family story also involves an allusion to ritual or “honor” suicide, though the circumstances are different from most samurai stories. (It was meant to show that the Akashi clan’s idea of shame in defeat was much more severe than most.) Since it was such a brief part of the chapter, I won’t discuss the history of ritual suicide in Japan, but it’s easily researchable online. (And as I’m sure most people know, the process is very graphic/disturbing, so please be aware of that.)

As for what inspired the Akashi story, I’m tempted to go on a long tangent here about how Kuroko no Basuke’s overall plot structure takes a lot of cues from samurai tales and Japanese action movies, to the point that this is an ACTUAL MOMENT from the show that I totally forgot about:

(Seriously, a million points to anyone who remembers which two characters were facing off during this moment??? Because I would have gotten one of them wrong for sure. Which actually ties into my point about the structure pretty well. XD)

Anyway, point being, I was definitely inspired by the nods to the Japanese warrior mythos in KnB to include more direct allusions in Akashi’s backstory—and to play around with how that history might have affected his family’s perspective on honor, victory, and defeat.

(I’d also like to note that the way Bokushi says the infamous line about his eyes in KnB canon has a key difference from the way Lord Akashi uses it in the legend… While it’s still emotional manipulation being used as motivation, Bokushi also uses it as a way to say that he’ll take all the blame for a defeat on himself, after intentionally making a shot for the other team. In other words, Bokushi is only holding himself to the Akashi standard. He wouldn’t blame his team for having to give up his eyes the way Lord Akashi blamed his son, because he doesn’t see them as bearing the same level of responsibility—even though he IS extending them the same level of trust, and complete confidence in their abilities. From Bokushi’s point of view, this is all totally obvious—even though it wouldn’t be to everyone else. To me, the distinction is pretty important to my interpretation of his character. But your mileage may vary, of course!)

And A Quick Note on Bokushi’s Theory

Finally, since this story has been exploring Akashi’s mental health, I just wanted to mention something about this line:

“In many ways, the tale had defined him all his life. It had taught him what it truly took to succeed. It was largely inseparable, from his sense of self. Perhaps in a certain sense, it had even caused it.”

Since I’m trying to be as careful as I can with how I portray dissociation, I want to clarify that this isn’t meant to be an explanation for how Akashi developed Dissociation Identity Disorder. Instead, this line is Bokushi’s theory about how/why he developed his personality traits, in comparison to his other self. It’s definitely an oversimplification, since there are many reasons why he behaves the way he does, the same as it is for anyone… But I think it makes sense for Bokushi to point to this family legend, which was told to Akashi at a very formative point in his childhood, as a way to explain his general worldview and priorities.

The question of why Akashi developed more than one self state is more complicated, and will be explored throughout the fic, rather than having one simple, straightforward explanation like this.

Well, that’s it for my notes! To anyone who read all the way through them, I’m very impressed. XD I really was excited to post this chapter—and I hope it was interesting and enjoyable to read in spite of (or because of?) how intense it was. Thank you as always for reading, and I hope to post the next chapter as soon as I can. <3 (It’s already drafted and once again, I’m SO EXCITED. I have a feeling I’ll be saying that a lot for this fic? //laughs)

#the vanishing prince #kat writes fanfic #kat writes about basketball dorks #long post #text post #really long post #good lord how long is this post #hopefully it's interesting though!#and it has lots of pretty stuff especially the pinterest board #which I had way too much fun putting together #okay I'm gonna maybe stop rambling on and on now XD #cw: suicide

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rainstormcolors · 6 years

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emblematik replied to your post:The Legend of Izanagi and Izanami, and DSoD

what do you think the significance of it is?

I think this finally made it clear to me what was meant when I’d come across comments of how Japan holds a somewhat different understanding of the “netherworld” than the West. It finally clicked to me. We all firmly hold the idea of death as such a permanent state, understandably so, but in the land of legends the barrier becomes permeable and fluid.

To be more direct, in Japanese mythology, someone journeyed to the netherworld seeking out a lost loved one and then journeyed back to the mortal world.

This isn’t something I’m a scholar on at all, so please read my thoughts with some big grains of salt.

The story seems to be this at its most basic:

The god, Izanagi, goes to the shadowy netherworld to retrieve his goddess wife, Izanami, who’d died in child birth. Izanami tells her husband she must prepare before leaving and he is forbidden to look at her until she is ready. The wait is too long and in worry, Izanagi sets a fire to see in the darkness of the netherworld, and in putting eyes upon his wife before she was allowed to leave, she’s revealed to be monstrous and rotting. In shame, Izanami becomes outraged at her husband and sends demons after him. He escapes the netherworld and rejects his wife. And so Izanami becomes Death, and Izanagi continues on as a god of the living.

What I’m most interested in though are the three points I’d mentioned before: 1) He journeys from the mortal world to the netherworld, 2) He does so in the hope of retrieving a lost loved one, 3) He journeys from the netherworld back to the mortal world. There’s been a lot of discourse regarding the ending of The Darkside of Dimensions, and fierce debate regarding Seto Kaiba’s fate. But I see a parallel in DSoD to those first two points of this mythology, and the assumption I can make is the third point follows. I think everybody knows I’ve taken the interpretation of Seto returning from the very get-go, and I’m very self-aware of my biases here. But it’s a facet of Japanese mythology that someone can travel from the mortal world to the netherworld and then travel back to the mortal world at will. The ending of DSoD remains open to whichever interpretation you prefer best, but that Seto returns home is something valid on both the personal level and as something potentially rooted in part of Japan’s culture.

I think there may be other aspects worth considering regarding the parallels of Izanagi’s quest with DSoD. The one that struck me most immediately was the idea of Atem and Seto ascending to a kind of godhood. I actually feel it’s already canon that Atem attained a kind of godhood, both in his golden manifestation to save the earth from an abominable Diva and in that pharaohs were regarded as gods within Ancient Egypt. On that note, Seto Kaiba was also Pharaoh in his past life. I feel more pressingly, it’s how Seto’s technology---the creations of his will---has come to match the magic of the Millennium Items. Even without the context of the legend, I think the conclusion of DSoD firmly frames Seto as approaching Atem as an equal.

The tones of these two narratives are starkly different of course, and so I wonder if DSoD could possibly be a transformation of this myth into something hopeful and warm: the story of Izanagi and Izanami but with a happy ending. In DSoD, there’s so much desperation and such deep wounds; Atem has hurt Seto, and Seto attempts to betray Atem, but in the end they’re quietly smiling at each other. They’ve fought so hard to be here, with so much struggle and pain, and they haven’t even bandaged their wounds, but just seeing each other has made everything worthwhile. And it’s just this gorgeous moment of complete forgiveness and understanding and connection. Perhaps it’s combining elements of Japanese mythology with Ancient Egypt’s idyllic serene vision of the afterlife.

Going back to DSoD being 100% pick-your-own-ending, the legend of Izanagi and Izanami can potentially justify both the interpretation of Atem staying in the netherworld and the interpretation of Atem leaving with Seto to return to the world of the living. An element of the legend’s message seems to be that the dead should be let go of in the end. And thus Seto says his farewell to his friend and the two part their ways in warmth. Or perhaps Atem is able to do what Izanami could not in this optimistic transformation of the two gods’ story: he follows Seto home. The reason Izanami couldn’t return in the myth is because her husband rejected her, but here Seto does not reject Atem.

I admit I’m still personally fond of the Persephone interpretation, and yet if Seto can traverse the worlds at will, there’s nothing barring this interpretation either. It’s the reward after all that effort to find his friend again, the reward for achieving magic with technology, and it’s a symbol for the meeting of Modern Japan with Ancient Egypt and the matching humanity found inside these two different worlds.

I suppose I just find it odd how this piece of Japanese mythology hasn’t been brought up at all in DSoD discussions on Tumblr, and I feel mentioning it adds to the fabric of the discussion and adds substance to several different interpretations, and most pointedly proves the space between the mortal world and the netherworld is two-way.

In any case, this post is mostly me thinking out loud.

#the darkside of dimensions #atem #seto kaiba #meta garbage

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gwynnew · 6 years

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The evolution of an earworm: 'Coco' songwriters on how they came up with Oscar-nominated 'Remember Me'

Coco (Disney-Pixar)

Songwriters Kristen Anderson-Lopez and Bobby Lopez, Oscar winners for “Let It Go,” explain how their latest Disney tune changed along with the film.

While working on the Pixar film Coco, married songwriters Kristen Anderson-Lopez and Bobby Lopez wrote a handful of songs that didn’t make the finished film. As it turned out, Coco only needed one. “Remember Me,” nominated this year for an Academy Award for Best Original Song, is the tie that binds the story together. We first hear it sung by Ernesto de la Cruz (Benjamin Bratt), the famous mid-century Mexican musician idolized by young hero Miguel (Anthony Gonzalez). Miguel secretly learns the song on his guitar despite his family’s dictate that music is forbidden from their home. Later, Miguel and the audience discover that “Remember Me” originated as a lullaby from Miguel’s great-great-grandfather, a traveling musician, to his own daughter. When the story comes full circle, and Miguel returns from the Land of the Dead to play “Remember Me” to his great-grandmother, it’s one of the most emotional moments in any Pixar film.

The Lopezes, who previously won an Oscar for “Let It Go” from Frozen, spent years developing Coco with Pixar’s writers and filmmakers. Now they’re celebrating their Oscar nomination in the midst of rehearsals for the Broadway adaptation of Frozen, for which the couple wrote 12 new songs. In an interview with Yahoo Entertainment, Kristen and Bobby went deep into the evolution of Coco from a full-blown musical to a single-song adventure. The songwriters described cut song moments, the “puzzle” of writing the double-meaning lyric, and the very personal meaning “Remember Me” took on in their own lives.

Watch an exclusive video featuring Bobby Lopez and Kristen Anderson-Lopez discussing all the versions of “Remember Me” in Coco:

yahoo

Yahoo: So you’re doing Frozen on Broadway and doing Oscar press, and you’re also parents — have either of you slept lately? Kristen Anderson-Lopez: No. At one in the morning last night I was like, “OK, need to find an Oscar dress, need to find Oscar travel, need to remember to take my daughter to the doctor tomorrow.” I mean, it’s just one of those times. But these are good problems to have.

When Lin-Manuel Miranda was nominated in this category last year, I talked to him during the Super Bowl because that was the only time he had free. Bobby Lopez: That’s a safe bet for all musical theater composers. Kristen Anderson-Lopez: We were totally free during the Super Bowl. We had dinner and actually talked facing each other. It was lovely.

Coco and Miguel in concept art for Coco (Disney-Pixar)

Before we get into “Remember Me,” I want to talk about how your work on Coco began. We recently ran on Yahoo Entertainment a couple of deleted scenes from when it was more of a musical. And I was very confused by that, because the whole premise of Coco is that Miguel’s family has banned music, yet in the original concept they were bursting into song. So maybe you can shed some light on what that story was like when you first came into it and how it evolved. Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Well, you already put your finger on why it wasn’t a musical. [laughs] Because having a family that sang about not loving music just didn’t sit right in that moment. I think we could have gotten away with it, but it was questionable enough that we were like, you know what? There’s so much else moving as this story develops; let’s get the story right and make it a story with songs… Bobby Lopez: I’m flashing back, actually, to a device that we tried — that didn’t work, but was a really valiant effort — that there was sort of a curse on the family after they died, that in the afterlife for eternity, since they had turned their backs on music, they were all cursed to have to sing everything they said. And we had to make all of their lines into sung little bits. It was pretty funny and wacky. But, that didn’t work.

How many songs did you actually work on for Coco? Was “Remember Me” the first? Bobby Lopez: “Remember Me” was the first. And it has always been in every version of the script, and it always worked. It was always emotional. And it never changed. And then the other songs, I think we wrote maybe five or six other ones.

Ernesto’s family in Coco (Disney-Pixar)

Kristen Anderson-Lopez: The other thing is, we were very involved in the story. Something that people don’t really know about what we do when we work on these movie musicals — especially with this one — is that we were there from the seed of the idea. We really shaped these character, and really shaped who Mama Imelda was going to be. We spent hours and hours and hours on that — which is I think very different from many songwriters who get called up to write a song when the movie is already done. That’s not what we do. They come to us and say, we’re interested in maybe making this a movie with songs, or a musical – can we explore that together? And we do a lot of story work with the story team and the directors. A lot of that story work is still in [Coco], and then I think we did do five or six songs. It’s more like an exploratory process. We have a couple different “I want” songs for Miguel that fit the same exact moment in his hidey-hole, where he’s sort of dueting with Ernesto de la Cruz. Bobby Lopez: Where he’s playing the guitar and watching him on TV. Kristen Anderson-Lopez: We wrote a couple versions of that song. One that I really love called “Invisible Music” – it was like [sings] “I only play invisible music…” It also spoke to what happens – like, we wrote all this invisible music for the movie! [laughs] But it was the right thing to do. It was the right thing to do, because there were so many things we had to hit to get the authenticity right. And the story had so many moving parts. The most important factor was telling the story that really reflected: If you are Mexican-American or Mexican, you see your family up there, you hear your family up there. And that ultimately was the right guiding principle.

Was there a pitch for Coco that made you say, “We definitely want to do this,” or was it simply the opportunity to work with Pixar? Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Yeah. [laughs] Both of those. I mean, early early on in our career, Bobby and I got to go to Pixar when we were turning Finding Nemo into a musical for Walt Disney World. And we used to joke around after we went on the tour and saw all the secret lounges and all the creativity and the fact that they want their workers to like, take macramé and do yoga in the middle of the day to keep their artistic juices flowing. We left and we were like: Pixar is mother. Pixar is father. [laughs] It was a dream to work there with all of those vibrant, incredible storytellers. And when they said, we might have something, we were like, “Yes! Doesn’t matter! Whatever it is, we’re there!”

Miguel and Hector in Coco (Disney-Pixar)

Bobby Lopez: But then particularly when they pitched us “Remember Me,” I remember just feeling like, well that’s an idea I’ve never heard: s song with both of those meanings that the whole plot turns on. And it’s not only a revelation that a different songwriter wrote it and it meant something else, but then the music itself becomes the emotion of the moment too. We were just so excited by that idea, and then we really wanted to get to work on it right away.

So how did you end up writing “Remember Me?” Kristen Anderson-Lopez: After hours and days and years of talking, Bobby had this beautiful melody that kind of came out of him one morning when he was still in his boxer shorts. And he put it on my phone, and I took it on the subway. And it was sort of like figuring out a puzzle, to tell the really emotional personal thing I had to say — which is, how you leave a song behind for your kids when you have to travel. But we also needed to constantly make sure, in every line, in every word, that it could also be interpreted as the Ernesto de la Cruz version of like, “Goodnight ladies! Goodbye! Remember me when I am gone!” Right? We needed this showboating, “To All the Girls I’ve Loved Before” kind of version. And so the interesting puzzle was writing two different songs at the same time: one that really came as a personal, emotional thing, and another that was like, “Look at me.”

Miguel’s shrine to Ernest de la Cruz (Disney-Pixar)

“Remember Me” was also translated into Spanish for the end credits of the movie. Was that a process you were involved in? Bobby Lopez: Disney has an army of the greatest translators in the business, all over the world, doing this. I don’t speak Spanish, sadly, but what I’ve heard is that the Spanish translation really rivals our lyric in terms of emotion and quality, and that it has special nuances that it doesn’t have in English. And the way it turned out in all of its versions so far has been very, very satisfying to me, every time I hear it. Especially sung in Spanish — people sing it with a lot of gusto. The only thing that we contributed to the version that plays over the end credits was, we expanded the song. We created a transitional section, and we wrote a second and third verse of the song. So now we have the three-minute version that we never had had when we first wrote it. It was always a minute twenty, and now we have the full thing. And that’s what I sang at my mother’s funeral. It was nice to have it to sing, the full-length “Remember Me.” Kristen Anderson-Lopez: This was in August, and it was beautiful. And it had a whole other meaning and a different energy when Bobby sings it at the piano from the heart. Bobby Lopez: I was really happy to have worked on this at that moment, which is such an awful, heavy grief that comes on you. It’s nice to have music to help you through it.

The scene at the end when Miguel plays the song for his great-grandmother – I think that’s the only time in a movie theater when my son, my husband and I all cried really hard at the same time. What was your reaction to seeing that scene? Kristen Anderson-Lopez: The same as yours. I mean, we cried the first time we heard the script read in 2013, and we’ve cried every time we’ve seen it since. And then how the incredible artists at Pixar animated Nana Coco’s face, sort of coming back to consciousness, and then smiling at him at the end… Bobby Lopez: And you know, to me it’s when Abuelita reacts, because she’s the one who’s been stuffing down her emotions about being forgotten by her own mother. And when– I’m crying just talking about it! — when her look of dumbfoundedness comes over her face, that’s the moment that I cry.

This will not be your first Oscar rodeo. What place do awards have in your lives now that you’re regular recipients? Is it like a sports season or something? Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Well it’s very different, because in a sports season, the athletes are doing it every year. And for us, this is sort of the second time around. What I can say is, it’s much more fun, much more celebratory. Because the first time around, we were in constant state of fight or flight – like, “What do we do? We’re doing it wrong! We don’t know anyone! What is happening? I don’t know how to get a stylist! I don’t know how to get a dress!” And the second time around, we actually are able to turn to each other and say, “This is fun! Isn’t this fun? We just talked to Steven Spielberg! Holy crap!” Bobby Lopez: It’s like the second time you ride a roller coaster. It’s always more relaxing. Kristen Anderson-Lopez: This time around, we’re bringing our two girls, our children, as our dates. They’re twelve and eight now, so they’re old enough. And for us, we’re in the middle of Frozen Broadway previews, so we have not seen our kids very much, and we’re actually taking them to the Oscars to get in some fun time with our family and just really have an extraordinary experience. No matter what the outcome, it’s going to be something we remember for the rest of our lives and a happy day.

Read more from Yahoo Entertainment:

‘Coco’ the musical? This deleted scene shows Pixar film’s radical transformation (exclusive)

Lin-Manuel Miranda on His Oscar-Nominated ‘Moana’ Song: ‘You Start by Thinking, Don’t Write “Let It Go”‘

‘‘Coco’: How Frida Kahlo’s hilarious, inspiring cameo happened

#news #behind-the-scenes #movie:coco #_uuid:9b8f31be-4f4a-3134-887b-f23b90f6ce1c #remember-me #awards 2018 #pixar #oscars 2018 #_revsp:wp_yahoo_entertainment_us_421 #_category:yct:001000031 #_lmsid:a0Vd000000AE7lXEAT #_category:yct:001000593 #bobby lopez #_author:Gwynne Watkins #coco #disney #awards #kristen anderson-lopez #interview

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rhenal · 6 years

Text

To the Void with the Void

Few things in Dragon Age lore bother me quite as much as the Void. It appears just about everywhere, in every faith, but what any one teaching says about what it actually IS never seems to be consistent - even in the same set of teachings.

Come with me on this journey, as I go through the Dragon Age Wiki page on the Void and follow every single cite note to the source - and look through those cited sources as well.

It starts with a brief summary, then goes into Chantry beliefs, because of course that comes first. It lists some verses from the chant.

All that the Maker has wrought is in His hand Beloved and precious to Him. Where the Maker has turned His face away, Is a Void in all things; In the world, in the Fade, In the hearts and minds of men.

Passing out of the world, in that Void shall they wander; O unrepentant, faithless, treacherous, They who are judged and found wanting Shall know forever the loss of the Maker's love. Only Our Lady shall weep for them.

—Canticle of Threnodies, 12:5

So... the void is both a vague emptiness in everything the Maker doesn’t like and the Andrastian version of Hell? Right. How conveniently vague. It never says ‘the Void’ though, just ‘a Void’.

Next follows some extrapolations. Since I know that fanon and canon tend to intermingle a lot in small, subtle and insidious ways, I shall stick as close to the source material - and only the source material - as the wiki and the rest of my resources will allow for, while mostly ignoring the wiki-specific text. So. Let’s follow the cite notes, in order.

The first one refers to a conversation with Sebastian in DA II. I don’t have that DLC, because I think that guy is kind of an arse and not worth my money, and after over an hour of searching both the wiki and youtube, I have not found this conversation, so I’m gonna drop that trail for now.

Second cite note also refers to a Sebastian conversation, but this is one I can actually find. It’s a banter conversation between him and Isabela.

Isabela: So, I've never understood why the Chantry says if you're good, you'll be taken up to the Maker's side. Sebastian: Those who die with the sins cleansed from their souls will walk beside the Maker in eternity. Isabela: That doesn't sound fun! Isabela: If they really want people to be good, shouldn't they offer an afterlife with... lakes of wine and a dozen naked virgins? Sebastian: Anyone who wants that will be going to the Void. Isabela: Sounds like that's where all the good parties will be.

So, Andrasian hell. K. Still doesn’t tell me anything useful.

Next few cite notes are grouped up. These unfortunately refer to books that I do not have access to at the moment - World of Thedas vol. 1 and the Dragon Age Origins official game guide - so I’ll simply settle for sharing the statement on the wiki.

The sinners are lost, endlessly wandering the Fade or even returning to the "ether" (the primeval matter of the Fade) from which they were made.

So, conflating the Void and the Fade now, are we? The next sentence references the Canticle of Threnodies, saying that it says that the Void is a place within the Fade. Time to check out what’s available of that Canticle myself...

Huh. Oh, that’s a lot. Yet after reading it all, the only mention of the Void I could find is in 12:5 above. “Where the Maker has turned His face away, Is a Void in all things; In the world, in the Fade, In the hearts and minds of men.” I think that can be interpreted in a lot of ways. It doesn’t quite say “The Void is a place in the fade” to me. It just says that there is an emptiness - a Void - in everything that the Maker found fault in. And he certainly found fault in the Fade, according to earlier verses in that very same Canticle. I don’t know, but this instance seems more figurative to me. Maybe I’m wrong.

Moving on. Up next is another Chantry verse.

Here lies the abyss, the well of all souls. From these emerald waters doth life begin anew. Come to me, child, and I shall embrace you. In my arms lies Eternity.

—Canticle of Andraste, 14:11

I can’t help but notice how ‘abyss’ isn’t capitalised in this verse. I checked in game - it’s not capitalised there either.

This verse bothers me. When reading further into the codex entry of “Here Lies the Abyss”, there is some musings by Revered Mother Juliette accompanying the verse. They read as follows:

Chantry sisters have long debated this section of the Chant of Light. It is tempting to assume that the "well of all souls" is a literal well, but such imagery appears nowhere in Andraste's other works. An examination from Threnodies 1:4 yields clues:

From the waters of the Fade you made the world. As the Fade had been fluid, so was the world fixed.

It is possible—even likely—that the "emerald waters" Andraste refers to are the substance of the Fade, which began as an "ocean of dreams" (Threnodies 1:1) and was reduced to a well—bottomless but limited in scope—by the Maker's creation of our world.

Is Andraste urging the listener to come to the Fade? Should we take "From these emerald waters doth life begin anew," as literal evidence of reincarnation—or even of life after death, as the Cult of Spirits suggests—or as a figurative benediction indicating that the Maker is the source of all life, and in finding His embrace for Eternity, we will only be returning our souls from whence they came?

Vague, is it not? Juliette seems as confused as I am.

Now, I remember when The Descent came out. When seeing The Wellspring at the end of that story, a lot of think-pieces popped up in the Meta community about how it looked an awful lot like what Andraste might have been describing in that Canticle of hers. Note how, in the Wiki page for the above-mentioned codex entry, there is a trivia section with a quoted passage from The Calling?

"It’s where Andraste goes to speak to the Maker for the first time. It’s where she convinces him to forgive mankind. It was supposed to be this beautiful temple deep under the earth surrounded by emerald waters."

Interesting, no?

If anything, it seems safe to say that The Chant doesn’t seem very interesting in defining just what either the Void or this abyss is in the first place, and anything further simply seem to be interpretations by various Chantry people, which is hardly a reliable source of anything.

Continuing down the Wiki page on the Void, we have the Elven beliefs section. Something something The Forgotten Ones dwell there - the cite note leads us to Codex Entry: Elven God Andruil. Well. Not beliefs of modern elves, then, since this entry is found in the temple of Mythal, but that’s splitting hairs.

One day Andruil grew tired of hunting mortal men and beasts. She began stalking The Forgotten Ones, wicked things that thrive in the abyss. Yet even a god should not linger there, and each time she entered the Void, Andruil suffered longer and longer periods of madness after returning.

Andruil put on armor made of the Void, and all forgot her true face. She made weapons of darkness, and plague ate her lands. She howled things meant to be forgotten, and the other gods became fearful Andruil would hunt them in turn. So Mythal spread rumors of a monstrous creature and took the form of a great serpent, waiting for Andruil at the base of a mountain.

When Andruil came, Mythal sprang on the hunter. They fought for three day and nights, Andruil slashing deep gouges in the serpent's hide. But Mythal's magic sapped Andruil's strength, and stole her knowledge of how to find the Void. After this, the great hunter could never make her way back to the abyss, and peace returned.

—Translated from ancient elven found in the Arbor Wilds, source unverified

Here is a much more clear distinction of the Void as an actual, tangible thing. Abyss is still not being capitalised, though. Abyss speaks to me of something deep down below. And the ancient Elves were actively encouraged to seek the deepest parts of the Fade, as seen in Codex Entry: Vir Dirthara: The Deepest Fade.

The pages of this book—memory?—are instructions on how to reach the deepest parts of the Fade, realms so far removed they're unmarked by Dreamers:

"Epiphany requires a mind smooth as mirror glass, still as stone. Put aside ten years for practice, and the next hundred for searching. What others have learned will ease your journey. Those who never manifested outside the Fade will find it easier to find its stillest roots, but it is rare the compulsion overtakes our brethren of the air."

Andruil roaming the Void was considered a bad thing by the Elves, yet seeking the deepest parts of the Fade was encouraged. That says to me that they are not the same. That says to me that the Void is not found in the Fade.

The Andruil codex entry also says that “all forgot her true face” and that because of her actions, “plague ate her lands”. The idea that it was Andruil who caused the Blight has been around for a long time. This codex entry is the source of that theory. So far, I am inclined to agree that it certainly sounds like that may be the case. So. Quite possibly, according to this tale, if this plague is indeed the blight, it can be concluded that the Blight came from the Void.

However, that is a whole lot of conditions. A lot of ‘if’s.

Next up, there’s talk about the legends of Fen’Harel and The Great Betrayal - which we know for certain fact by now is a lot more complicated than the legends make it out to be. However, I don’t remember there being any mention of the Void or an abyss - or even the Forgotten Ones - being mentioned in our conversation with Solas in Trespasser. Sometimes I wonder if the Forgotten Ones are just a trail that Bioware wants to drop, but then I remember that their most explicit appearance in all the games so far is as recently as Jaws of Hakkon. Well. Back on track.

The cite notes here only lead me to Arlathan: Part two and the Dread Wolf codex entry - both tellings of the Dalish legend, which tells me nothing new. The Forgotten Ones were allegedly trapped in the abyss. Might be good to point out that these legends also appear to imply that the Forgotten Ones came from the abyss, or at least that it was their home. “[...]if only the Forgotten Ones would return to the abyss for a time.“

Hmm. The Void wiki entry next says that The World of Thedas includes accounts of the Evanuris being trapped in the Eternal City. I thought that was just a theory. I really need to get that book. Clear some things up.

On to the next cite note, which leads me to the codex entry Elgar’nan: God of Vengeance. Another Dalish account, but this one brings up something interesting that I’ve not paid attention to before.

The sun, looking down upon the fruitful land, saw the joy that Elgar'nan took in her works and grew jealous. Out of spite, he shone his face full upon all the creatures the earth had created, and burned them all to ashes. The land cracked and split from bitterness and pain, and cried salt tears for the loss of all she had wrought. The pool of tears cried for the land became the ocean, and the cracks in her body the first rivers and streams.

Elgar'nan was furious at what his father had done and vowed vengeance. He lifted himself into the sky and wrestled the sun, determined to defeat him. They fought for an eternity, and eventually the sun grew weak, while Elgar'nan's rage was unabated. Eventually Elgar'nan threw the sun down from the sky and buried him in a deep abyss created by the land's sorrow.

A deep crack in the earth - a crack referrenced to as an abyss no less - created by the Sun’s rage.

Perhaps, this instead is a reference to the war in which the Evanuris were generals. The war that enabled their ascent to presumed godhood. And this chasm was opened by the battles waged in this war.

My mind wanders to The Abyssal Reach in the Western Approach. You know the one - the ginormous black chasm? The one that you fall into during Here Lies the Abyss?

The Wiki entry on the Western Approach says that “This area was the site of a major battle during the Second Blight. The darkspawn swarmed out of the great chasm to the south named the Abyssal Rift and corrupted the land beyond recovery.” Note that it doesn’t say is that the chasm was created during the Second Blight. It would appear that it was already there.

I’m thinking that this chasm is the same as the one referenced in Elgar’nan’s legend.

Although - nothing about this says that this chasm and the Void is the same thing. But I suspect that they may be connected.

Continuing down the Void wiki page, all that’s left is the cult of the Empty Ones - who worshiped the blight - as well as a fairly lengthy trivia section. Nothing I find here is new. The Empty ones say the Darkspawn came from the Void and that the Void is a place of nothingness. General mentions of a hungry, yawning void - which doesn’t really say anything because that’s a pretty general turn of phrase. The Staff of the Void’s description talks about a void as an absence of something, which once again sounds more like a turn of phrase than anything substantial.

There is always the Anvil of the Void - the thing that the Dwarves used to forge Golems. Since it essentially functioned by transferring the soul of a dwarf into that of the Golem, it could imply that the Void is somehow related to souls - or at least Dwarven souls - which would support the verse from the Canticle of Andraste mentioned before. But then, we also know that Elven souls come from the Fade - or at least that is what is implied, considering their close kinship with Spirits before the Veil.

And there is still the whole thing about where we have absolutely no idea where the Humans even came from in the first place...

So far, I’ve seen a lot of fairly interesting thinking points - but absolutely nothing that would really lead to any real consensus to what the Void even is - IF it even is. I can’t help but feel that despite the frequent use of the terms Void and abyss in both Elven and Chantry lore, none of these references are similar enough - or substantive enough - for me to be able to be able to safely conclude that the Void even is a special place or thing at all. It sounds to me like metaphorical speech far more often than it does anything else. A metaphor for deep underground or something. The Deep Roads. I don’t know.

But then I remember The Descent again. The Wellspring. The ‘lake’ that seemed almost like a sky. The Dwarf legend of the king who dug so deep down that he and his entire thaig “fell into the sky”. It makes me wonder...

In the end, all I feel I can really conclude for myself is that whatever it is, the Abyss is mostly deep below, and the Fade is mostly up above. I don’t think they are the same. Also that the Blight probably comes from the Void in one way or another.

But honestly, any more than that, the lore just doesn’t seem to converge into anything substantial anywhere. There is simply far too little to go on to make any solid conclusions, and what little lore there is appear to go into different places more often than not. We can assume, we can theorise, we can extrapolate - but what real lore there actually is tells us surprisingly little.

If anyone has any thoughts about this that are more coherent than mine, I’d love to hear them, because it feels like I’m thinking in circles.

#dragon age meta #dragon age inquisition #dragon age 2 #dragon age origins #the void #This post took me four hours to make #My brain feels kinda mushy #I'm tired #I should go to sleep

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theobsidiancricket · 7 years

Text

Benjamin Franklin

I never intended to make this post so long, but it has kind of grown wings, so please enjoy. I know it’s a bit of reading but I think it’s worth it.

Ok, so I’ve been thinking about this post for a while, and I think there might be more to it than symbolism.

I have a theory for Jason Funderburker (the frog).

So, the post I was thinking about details how Jason is representative of the brothers’ relationship and how it is not until they become good brothers that they can name the frog. Just like Greg can never get the frog’s name just right, he can never quite make Wirt happy either, he can’t quite do the thing he’s supposed to. It is not until both of these things are done that they can leave the Unknown. Think about what the Woodsman told the boys at the end of ep1:

Woodsman: And little one, you look after that frog, give him a proper name.

But maybe the relevance is more than symbolic, perhaps it drives the plot. Maybe that’s why they are in the Unknown. And maybe, it was Jason who took them there.

I made a post a while ago about how I think they had to have Jason with them in order to pass through to the Unknown, if we are assuming it is some kind of afterlife, with a theory deriving from Egyptian mythology. But maybe Jason wasn’t just the token to getting through, maybe he was the one who took them through.

Think about it. Jason appears when Wirt is furious at Greg after they have jumped over the wall, their relationship clearly isn’t a good one. Also, Greg mentions early in episode 9: “I keep hearing ribeting around town”, maybe Jason’s been following them? Either way, he sees two brothers who clearly don’t get on, and at that point croaks. He makes himself noticed to them.

And then what happens? They are so preoccupied with the frog that they don’t notice that a train is approaching them until last minute. It’s kind of Jason’s fault that they fall into the water. But perhaps it wasn’t an accident.

So now the boys are beginning to die, and Jason the frog knows exactly what that means, they are about to drift into some place between life and death, a place that will force them to work together in order to escape back to the land of the living, and he’s going to take them there.

Sidenote: I saw a post a while ago theorising that Greg had been through the Unknown more than once, so maybe the brothers failed to come together the previous times and so Jason restarted it, or maybe these theories don’t fit together, just a thought.

The Unknown

Anyway, back to it. As to the existence of the Unknown, I’m not 100% sure. Maybe Jason is creating this version of it, given it doesn’t have everyone who has ever died, though after writing this post I’m not sure he did. Thinking about it, he doesn’t always look like he knows what’s going on, so he may not have created this world. I do think though that this is some kind of manifestation in their heads, the reason will be clear in a moment.

The Beast

The Beast, I’m not sure about that either. But I reblogged a post saying that the Beast was just a manifestation of Wirt’s insecurities etc., and that what happens in the Unknown is the emotional backlash of his miserable Halloween. Perhaps this fits, if the space between life and death, the Unknown, is internal, like in their heads, then it would make sense that some of the other things in their heads begin to seep through. So, as per, Wirt has created the biggest problem that he has to face himself. However this is certainly not the only interpretation of the Beast within this theory, especially given it seems that the Beast was around long before Wirt’s arrival (actually ignore that point the Unknown is timeless that’s like the point). But someone has to have created this place, and I think it was likely Beast. I think the Beast is likely to be kind of like but not totally, some kind of reaper or demon. I think that there are others, but not in the Unknown. I think there are many, many different versions of this land between life and death, each one created and run by its own reaper. There are some animals, for example frogs, and black cats – I’m coming back to Enoch. that have the ability to bring dying (or dead?) people through to the Unknown and it is the Beast’s job to keep them there. However it seems that Jason is not using this power properly, and instead is helping two brothers fix their broken friendship. Awww.

Adelaide and Whispers

Perhaps the Beast therefore employs some people of the Unknown into his service, hence Adelaide:

Adelaide: I do as he commands, the voice of the night, the Beast of eternal darkness.

Or perhaps he created Adelaide himself when he created the world, which may explain Auntie Whispers if, for example, he was unable to create the evil without creating good, since he was not able to disturb the balance of the world. Maybe that’s why Lorna is possessed by a spirit, the Beast is attempting to give the only powerful good in the Unknown a distraction.

Now the Beast is defeated and even Adelaide is dead, the Unknown I think is unlikely to have many new arrivals, and other afterlifes will still however some may continue their work. For example Enoch is self-sufficient – I’m coming back to him I promise, but maybe in a separate post.

Also, I’m sure that when the day comes that Greg, Wirt and maybe Sara die, Funderburker will be sure to take them to this Unknown and to Beatrice (think of the fics).

The Turtles

Now I agree with the whole death of the author thing, anything the author (or in this case animator) has to say after the release of the material is just an interpretation. However Patrick McHale’s is an interesting one. He states that the balck turtles are “an imperfection in the quilt”, so they’re like a fracture. Someone created this world but things in their subconsious will still seep through, their minds will try to wake them up. And Wirt has a black turtles poster on his wall at home. So it’s something in the back of his mind that’s coming through. Many people think they’re somehow associated with the beast, maybe this is true, given both the turtles and the Beast could be from Wirt’s mind (even though that’s not the theory I’m going with).

Beatrice

I don’t think Beatrice has much to do with this one, I think she was taken to the Unknown by something that wasn’t Jason, given the look he gives Beatrice for just a split second:

I don’t think many, if any, of these other character’s are in this version of the afterlife because of him, because he’s not very happy at Beatrice’s interference, he looks very unimpressed during this whole conversation. He just wants his boys to grow together as people and this damned bluebird is leading them off to some Adelaide woman, who he may know to be evil – he does leave shortly before they meet Adelaide, maybe for fear, or maybe she will give him away to the boys, or maybe he’s just in a huff. Sure enough, though, he returns to help the brothers at the end of the episode. Also, notice how Beatrice tries to pull them apart at the beginning:

Beatrice: Ok, that’s great. How about you an I ditch your brother.

Of course she doesn’t know why they’re here, she’s not tryin to sabotage Jason’s plans, just trying to fulfil her own, but nevertheless when they first meet, Jason knows that she could be trouble.

So the boys progress through the Unknown, Wirt going through extremely strong character development until they can learn to be brothers, and it is only then that they can escape.

So how is it that they do escape? We don’t actually see, it seems they just defeat the Beast then it just kind of happens. The answer, I think, is this: Jason took them to the Unknown to fix their relationship, but now they were there:

a) If you’re going with the Beast as a manifestation of Wirt’s insecurities, Jason saw that Wirt had some things with himself to sort out as well. So he let that play out before he was satisfied that they both had postively developed from their experience in the Unknown.

b) Or, if you’re going with the Beast as the creator of the Unknown, Jason saw that the boys could defeat the Beast and so let them, he likely does not like the Beast.

c) Or, most likely, they had to defeat the Beast to get Greg home, because the Beast had taken Greg.

Then, his job was done and he took them home – after giving them some time to say goodbye to Beatrice, of course.

And that’s why Jason is the narrator, that’s why he behaves in the knowing way that he does, everything that happens is because of him, he took them to the Unknown, and he was the only one aware enough of what was going on to be able to retell the story to us as the omniscient narrator.

You done good, Mr. President, you done good.

Ok, I’m going to leave Enoch for another post, because this is already much longer than expected, and I have a lot of content of Enoch.

#jason funderburker #the beast #the unknown #aunt adeleide #auntie whispers #lorna #beatrice #black turtles #over the garden wall #otgw #theories #analysis

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