3.09 - Captains and Vice-Captains
This is a part of my Subjectify Media conversation review that I wanted to share as straight-up meta, because it's something I keep thinking about regarding the banter between Sam and Jamie about the armband. It occurred to me that people might not know how vice-captains work in football teams, so here's me forcing football logic onto a throwaway moment to make it work in a way that means Sam and Jamie don't both feel OOC here.
‘Ted Lasso’ season 3, episode 9 in conversation: Second-best way it could’ve gone
Natalie: I have heaps of thoughts about the Roy and Isaac relationship and captain inheritance and how maybe Roy didn’t particularly think through his choice originally, but is able to help Isaac with shit he knows about himself that he’d love to break the cycle with for Isaac. Isaac picking Sam to take over while he’s banned is a choice with much less liability, and we knew Sam would become captain at some point this season from the trailer. And I think it’s a good choice but unfortunately they saw fit to include a moment about this that I HATED and don’t understand at all, and I think I’m like one of five people that hated it, which is that banter between Sam and Jamie about the captain’s band. I love their friendship and I’d love Sam teasing Jamie in any other moment. I think they’re amazing. But I think this scene did both Sam and Jamie dirty. You initially liked it on your watch, so try and talk me out of this.
Megan: So I think with this, in the moment I enjoyed it because Sam’s reaction, flipping Jamie off, startled a laugh out of me in a tense moment, and also Sam looked So. Freaking. Cute. Then speaking to you afterwards I did agree with what it was saying about Jamie in particular being quite off. It’s a tough one because okay… Going deep into football logistics, the way it works is you don’t just pick a random player to take over as captain. There is a hierarchy and there are usually people who are the named vice captains. Sometimes the manager makes these choices, or, more rarely, the players vote – Man City is a team that votes – but there is generally a “captain group.” For West Ham, for example, Mark Noble was captain for years, and Declan Rice was the main vice captain and often wore the armband because he started more often than Noble did. When Noble retired, Dec became captain and the manager, David Moyes, selected three vice captains to support him in the various duties – Aaron Cresswell, Angelo Ogbonna and Lukasz Fabianski.
So within football realism, it is extremely reasonable that Jamie and Sam are both already Richmond’s selected vice captains, and with that in mind yes, Isaac gives it to Sam, but I don’t think he did that out of like specifically choosing Sam over Jamie, right? I think it was just geography based – Sam was next to him, he would have been the easiest to shove the band at, rather than Jamie.
So my good faith interpretation, that works for their characters in my head is that Sam physically got the band due to proximity, but maybe Jamie, an established vice captain is thinking – and I think, quite fairly – “You know what, we’re a goal down, we’ve lost a player, I might be the best person tactically in this situation to wear the band and captain us through this situation where we are going to have to Total Football the shit out of the rest of this match.” So this was Jamie broaching the topic, and then Sam responding in a light-hearted way to kind of break the tension of the room, but also him thinking “No you know what, I think I’d be a good person in this situation to keep heads calm, and also argue the ref down from any later cards, so we don’t risk losing any other players.”
And I am putting a LOT of thought behind how that very short moment, clearly played for laughs, could be interpreted to make it work for the characters, because the alternative is that Jamie was having a big ego moment and wanting the captain band that he had not been honoured with, and Sam was apparently so unaffected by Isaac’s angst that he’s being a little shit two seconds later. And neither of those sit quite right with me.
Natalie: Yeah but you’re aware that the last sentence, the alternative, is how it played to 99.99% of people who are not logistically thinking about the reality of clubs having an existing captain pool, right? Which, really, maybe we should have seen before, because it isn’t as if Isaac has played every single minute of every single match since Roy gave him the armband. When Isaac gets subbed off, for any reason – fitness, a yellow card meaning they don’t want to risk a red, anything at all – he would have to pass the band to someone on the pitch. This is why they have vice captains and we see this in the season 1 finale with Roy. Isaac starts the match as the substitute captain, Roy gets the band back when he starts the second half, then he passes it back to Isaac when he limps off. This is a thing. There have to be people the band goes to when the captain comes off the pitch before the match ends.
And Sam and Jamie both being vice captains absolutely makes sense logically, but this is not how the joke is played, and as you admit, you’re forcing this idea into your reading, and making your reading more realistic than Ted Lasso actually is, because the alternative is a moment that kind of truly sucks for both Sam and Jamie, but sadly, I think that alternative is absolutely what the show meant. This is their way of saying “Hahahahah! Remember, Jamie is still full of himself and is disrespecting Isaac’s clear choice and Sam’s power as a team leader, and he’s presumptively trying to put himself above Sam. Because he’s a prick, remember?” And also saying “Hahaha! Sam, in this moment, is able to recover so much from Isaac’s clear distress that he’s keen to mock and tease his friend for his ridiculous ego, and in doing so, giving the audience the message that hahahaha, how silly it is to think that Jamie would ever be captain!”
It is, boiled down, banter that says Jamie’s an inflated egomaniac who is inappropriately trying to take something from his friend that was very purposely given to him, and Sam’s response both makes a mockery of the idea that Jamie could be a valid captain choice and shows that he isn’t very affected by Isaac’s big emotional moment, if he’s able to be so playful. It makes each of them look like arseholes in a way I found totally out of character for both of them. There are a million other ways to have had Sam tease Jamie about his ego, so many other moments where we could have seen this energy. But because Ted Lasso has never taken pains to establish the captain system, and because Isaac didn’t throw the band down in the centre for them to fight over, Isaac selecting Sam and then Jamie being like, “No, me actually,” and then Sam being like, “LOL, as if it’s you?” I hated it IMMEDIATELY. And I’m sad about not enjoying it. It’s not like I’m trying to take these things in bad faith, but it genuinely just felt very wrong to me. And this is what I was referring to when I said I didn’t like the way they burst the tension bubble on the Isaac outburst. It is meant to be a “letting the air out” moment, but for me it was really not fun.
Megan: Absolutely. Like I said I didn’t have the immediate hatred, because it broke me out of the tension and because of Toheeb Jimoh’s face. But once you pointed this out, it did sit really bad with me, and that’s why I had to, as you say, force this reading into working for me, to contradict that. So yeah, look, I’m with you on what it means for the characterisation, and I really hope we get a moment of Jamie wearing the armband down the line more organically. He’s earned it.
Natalie: It’s not even that I think he should have had it here instead of Sam, to be clear!
Megan: Oh yeah, I get it, it’s just the way they had the interaction play out.
Natalie: I just don’t think it’s outlandish to think he’s a candidate and this treated him it was. Also his disrespect of Isaac’s obvious choice, because he had intentionally handed it to Sam. It was just a mess for me. And there are so many other ways we could have got Sam teasing Jamie about being bigheaded, but for Sam to be playful and competitive in this moment rather than, you know, serious and worried. So weird to me. And everyone I’ve talked to who saw the episode loved it, LOL.
‘Ted Lasso’ season 3, episode 9 in conversation: Second-best way it could’ve gone
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// I’m just saying, what’s the point of spending 5 SEASONS of a show where the Original family does EVERYTHING to make sure Hope can be healthy and safe and happy--only to have HER show make her a weak little girl who’s ‘has no family’ left.
Yes, she doesn’t have her parents (and that’s a whole other writing issue but we’ll leave it at that) but EVERYONE in that family cares about her. What they’d do, just up and leave her in MF without a care? Don’t gimme that Malivore crap because that’s a whole other issue too...
Legacies, as enjoyable as it sometimes is, is just... poorly written in the grand scheme of the TVDverse. I mean, yes, none of it is Emmy-winning writing, we know that, but STILL... Then again, judging by that fifth season of TO, maybe they really are as bad with writing characterization as it seems...
Point is... I started Legacies for HOPE. And while I enjoy the other characters now too (Lizzie most of all other than Hope) I just... gimme my all-powerful tribrid child!
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