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stellas-and-tonitruses · 3 months

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Everything we know about Project Apple (and, by extension, Anya's past) thus far

thought i'd compile all of that now while endo's on break Just In Case the next chapter happens to start anya's backstory (i don't Think it will but endo likes surprising us LSDFKLFS)

important disclaimer that project apple and the organization in charge of anya's experiments have not been confirmed to be related! there's evidence that they have things in common, in particular employees, but that's our only real connection between the two thus far. still! worth looking into

more under the cut!

so, starting very strongly with the very first mention of anything related to the project: anya's introduction in chapter 1

despite her being a main character, we know very little about her past at the moment, and this little blurb at the beginning makes up a very big portion of what we know.

things to note here:

as an experiment, her name was "Test Subject 007". important to note that the notation differs between her and bond: she was Test Subject 007, bond was Subject 8, no zeroes in there;

she had been made thus by accident, the phrasing itself implying quite heavily that she was just a normal child before said accident (but this is the translation! i don't know japanese so i can't cross-reference with the raws to clarify if the phrasing changes anything, but the fanbook uses the word "gained" to describe her powers too);

because her mind-reading is an unintended consequence, that means the scientists were presumably not, at least initially, trying to achieve cognitive enhancements in humans, and were instead trying to achieve something else, whatever that might've been;

she escaped from the facility and then moved from institution to institution, looking for a family.

so, crucially, through this little introduction we learn that there is an organization, government-funded or otherwise, that is or was conducting human experiments for unknown purposes. we also learn that whatever family anya had prior to being involved in the experiments is more than likely unreachable, at least as far as she knows, and so she has settled for finding a new family to take care of her instead.

in terms of the facility itself, here we see they clearly drilled it into her that she can't ever reveal her secret (and the darn plush is there too -- in the anime it's even more emphasized, as you can see in the gif i made)

through her reminiscing though, we get our very first look at the scientists that were in charge of her! they're in the gif above but here they are in the manga too. it's so interesting that the anime actually shows their eyes behind the glasses though, fascinating choice.

the insistence on world peace is important, as it explains her own personal obsession with it and shows that it's not just because of twilight's own focus on preserving the peace. i also don't think twilight ever really talks about "world peace," only about "preserving the current peace between westalis and ostania" -- anya seems to be the only one talking about WORLD peace (even in the very first scene where either of them mention it in proximity to each other in ch 1, loid says "understanding the other party is the first step towards peace" and anya's interpretation is "understanding me makes world peace?") but take this with a grain of salt because i might be wrong! going through every single mention of peace in the story just to fact check this one little trivia fact is a bit much i think so i'm not doing it JSDFKLSD

but yes

remember mr hair strand and baldy, we'll see them again. not her though, ig she wasn't in charge of bond

now, fast-forwarding to chapter 19, we finally get a name and a premise for the experiments:

"but oana," you might say, "this is talking about animals only! how do we know it's the same project as anya's, which involved human experimentation?"

i don't think it is, is the thing! i think it's related to the experiments anya was a part of, which is evidenced by the same scientists being featured in project apple too, but there's more going on that we don't know about. there wouldn't be such adamancy on keeping the two separate in every official mention of them if they were just the same thing, imo!

back to the evidence, we learn that the project, conducted and funded by the previous ostanian regime (meaning donovan's related to it one way or another, since he was prime minister), was marked by franticness and desperation -- a prime place for accidents like anya's telepathy and bond's future vision.

we also learn that the project was sacked by the new administration and that the former test subjects ended up on the black market.

(this makes it very important, imo, to learn when anya escaped the facility vs. when the project was sacked. it's clearly no longer in function, but while we've heard nothing from them thus far, i'm willing to bet the shady dealings around the desmond group are NOT related to the war, as W.I.S.E. has been led to believe, but rather to reignite project apple. that is speculation however so i'm going to refrain from theorising much on why the desmond group is focused on acquiring pharmaceutical companies!!)

ok speculation tangent over, back on track

so, that's already a decent amount of info! but moving to chapter 22, when bond is finally home, and we finally see some familiar faces

behold! baldy and mr hair strand!

and 2 other guys we don't know but will see again in another bond flashback!

that's 2 out of the 3 scientists we've seen thus far from anya's own time as subject 007, confirming that there IS a connection between anya and bond's experiments, regardless of whatever the project anya was a part of might've been named.

this is also the chapter in which we learn that bond himself was subject 8 (or, if we take it from the fanbook, subject #8. still, diff notation from anya!)

in chapter 31, we learn an interesting tiny piece of trivia. we don't get any further info on it, but it IS mentioned as something that is known by W.I.S.E.:

ostania is rumoured to have done human experimentation! and W.I.S.E., and by extension loid, are aware of that.

do i know how them knowing may be important later? not really!

the next droplet of info we get is in chapter 40. we see that project apple had collaborators that are still functioning unhindered.

of course, born industries is only rumoured to have been involved with project apple, but regardless of whether or not they actually were, the rumour itself implies that the project likely pulled scientists from various other companies' R&D departments.

(this makes the desmond group's acquisition of glooman pharmaceuticals shadier, but anyway)

as a side note, twilight is emoting so much at just his wrong assumption that bond is seeking revenge against the scientists. imagine how he's going to react when he finds out about anya JKSDFKLFSD

and now aaaaall the way in chapter 58, we see the bald guy who anya also knows, the two scientists from bond's previous flashback, and one whole new guy!

and thus ends our current knowledge of it all!

the only other thing worth discussing is anya's knowledge of classical language

but plenty people have already discussed these scenes, especially recently, so here are some links: 1 | 2 | 3

the only thing i can add is that i'm fairly certain that classical language is a lot more likely to be latin than old english, because it's a very common language to learn in school (in europe at least, and ostania is based on east germany so it makes sense to me. i learned mandatory latin in school for a few good years too, even if i wasn't that good at it lol) and because one of the most common modern usages of latin are in medicine and science, it would make sense that she'd be better at it due to exposure.

a possibility is also that the scientists would think in latin to conceal their thoughts from her, and that's how she ended up learning so much. she's not fluent in latin, she's just well acquainted and that cicumstance would explain the how.

BUT THAT'S SPECULATIONNN

also i don't think "ANIA" is an acronym, nor do i think anya's been misspelling her own name out of lack of knowledge. "ania" is a polish diminutive of anna and an alternate transcription of Аня, so i think it's far more likely that anya isn't ostanian or westalian than it is that her name comes from an acronym.

now,

TL;DR!

what we know about project apple (and the "mysterious organization"):

project apple was funded and conducted by what appears to have been donovan's regime and, from what W.I.S.E. knows, aimed to create highly intelligent animals for military purposes;

W.I.S.E. is aware that ostania is at the very least rumoured to have dabbled in human experimentation;

the project is presumably no longer on-going, though it is likely there are efforts behind the scenes to revive it;

it is rumoured but not confirmed that project apple had collaborating companies that are still functioning perfectly fine;

the same scientists who were in charge of bond were also in charge of anya, signalling that there is a very significant connection between project apple and the "mysterious organization;"

based on what they were telling anya, they were/are very focused on "world peace";

their experimentation methods include but likely aren't limited to electrocution.

and what we (vaguely) know about anya that relates to this:

she is at the youngest, 4 years old, and at the oldest, 5 nearing 6. we don't know her real age, all we know is she definitely lied about being 6;

she is very fixated on specifically world peace while twilight is focused on peace between ostania and westalis. the scientists are the very first we see talking about this, so it's likely their fault;

she is unreasonably well acquainted with classical language;

she has escaped the facility at LEAST 1 year ago;

and, one tidbit from the fanbook (page 29): "Anya has been reading minds for as long as she can remember," implying that her memory of a life before the lab is muddy at best and absent at worst.

that's all we know that i know of!!

if you got this far, thank you for reading :D hope any of this was interesting or sparked any theories >:] have a good day!

#sxf #spy x family #manga spoilers #project apple #anya forger #bond forger #sxf manga #spy x family manga #sxf manga spoilers #spy x family manga spoilers #analysis #meta #I DIDN'T OWN THE FANBOOK WHEN I FIRST MADE THE DRAFT FOR THIS BUT THEN I BOUGHT IT well my brother bought it for me #bless his heart #AND SO I WANTED TO READ THE ENTIRE THING BEFORE CONTINUING ON!!! didn't find much out in relation to this post specifically but #there's quite a lot to infer on how anya's powers work #and there's a distinction between what she reads (internal voices vs mind reading which would be digging into someone's subconscious)#so that would be super interesting to talk about but uh not in this post KLSDFJSDKL since it has little bearing on the project itself

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stellas-and-tonitruses · 3 months

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Anya + unraveling the mystery of the Desmond family (and Damian being different)

When Melinda debuted, I wrote a post about how she was potentially a character against the Forgers because Anya hadn't met her (we gain insight into characters via our deus ex machina Anya meeting them and reading their minds). Anya has met her now and the narrative has established that she genuinely cares for Damian (even if she's still a mysterious character).

After a long time, Demetrius is finally here. He's still mysterious, but not antagonistic to his brother and still cares for him. Like I said in a previous post, Demetrius subverts what I said above because Anya cannot read him fully even if she's met him. But regardless, Demetrius is here, we've seen him, all four Desmonds have finally debuted. And in my mind, I can vaguely connect them to the Forger-Briar extended family:

Anya - Damian: The kids aiming for stella stars and seeking parental approval. Attached to their dogs. Occasionally heroic (dodgeball, handkerchief, bus hijacking), but ultimately silly kids dragged into "adult" political matters (Anya with more awareness than Damian).

Loid - Donovan: Standing in for WISE vs war, one of the central conflicts. They are fathers and authority figures. Loid, faking a job as a psychiatrist, seeks to understand people (as a fake job, but he also does this as a spy). Donovan famously declared that people would never truly sympathize with each other. A good, attentive father and a neglectful father.

Yor - Melinda: The mothers, the narrative kind of puts them in the background compared to their husbands, but we know they have plot behind them. Yor's job as an assassin is unknown to her family (sans Anya). Melinda has struggles of her own when it comes to parenting her kids / being married to Donovan.

Demetrius - Yuri: Bit of a stretch, but they're both characterized as genius brothers and on the side compared to the main father-mother-child trios. Yuri works for the SSS, in direct opposition to Loid. Demetrius is a middle schooler?? He’s a child so he’s probably not that involved in the main plot, and if he is, it’s not willingly / he was brought up that way. They're both younger (and less experienced) compared to the adults- Demetrius is still a child and Yuri is 20. Yuri's affection for Yor is overflowing and the Briar siblings are very supportive of each other. In contrast, Demetrius is passive and apathetic, but not uncaring.

Anya has met everyone except for Donovan. Anya thinks both Melinda and Demetrius are weird. And Anya thinks of Donovan as the evil super boss. To her, the Desmonds are "weird". "All of Sy-on boy's relatives are such weirdos" - not sure if it's just the translation, but this line seems to imply Anya thinks Damian is exempt to the weirdness of his family. After all, unlike Demetrius, she can read Damian's thoughts normally. And unlike Melinda (and Yuri, and Fiona), she usually doesn't get bombarded with an overwhelming wave of intense thoughts when she reads Damian's mind.

And that brings us to the next point - Damian's time in Eden and the positive influences he receives (away from his family). Damian and Anya are better friends now. E&E's loyalty and affection for him have been established countless times. Becky congratulates Damian this chapter. Despite Damian thinking people suck up to him to get close to his father, he has a group of friends who do care about him (including Becky who doesn't suck up to him). Outside of what we see from Anya's pov, Damian has teachers and his dorm mother (Jeeves too) who care for him. Damian isn't alone.

Damian is shown to be disconnected from his family for whatever reason. His parents didn't come to his orientation. Damian says he doesn't see his parents often. Melinda cares for Damian but isn't allowed to see him often / afraid to be seen with him (?). Damian has called Demetrius before but this is the first time we see him meet Demetrius in person. And we all know about Damian's goal of impressing his father. Damian seems to believe Demetrius and Donovan when close when they were younger (when Demetrius was slightly older than Damian’s age), but Damian receives no such attention. Despite this, Damian still manages to have a fairly happy school life with his friends and supportive adult figures.

I think Damian's growing friendship with Anya and the recent complete reveal of the Desmond family will push Anya into thinking Damian is not like his weird family. If anything, Damian is more like Anya and her associates. Post bus-hijacking, Damian from Anya's POV is seen as more likeable / sympathetic, even more so now that we know about his mother and brother.

Anya is a child who is exposed to some of the darkness in Melinda / Demetrius' heads (trauma from being close to Donovan?), and she doesn't really understand them. Melinda / Demetrius seem off to outsiders (we saw Yor’s reaction, Becky thinks Demetrius is creepy) but it’s only Anya who’s capable of reading their minds and knowing how weird their thoughts are. But Anya has a much better understanding of Damian, the youngest Desmond, who is a kid like her with understandable motivations (getting stars, impressing his dad) similar to Anya's own motivations.

Interesting to note that Demetrius, while at Eden, seems rather lonely and disconnected even within his peer group. When he walks down the stairs, the panel frames it as him being alone, while Damian has four friends with him. When Damian and Anya get their stars, their classmates are shown to be smiling / impressed. When Demetrius gets his stars, we see two of his peers sweatdropping, almost looking wary, while a blushing girl has her hands to her mouth. The story doesn't show Demetrius' peers celebrating his success. It feels like Demetrius' peers are used to him getting good grades but still in awe of how good he is, but... they're not really close to him. Demetrius is not social and says he doesn't understand people, and maybe he doesn't interact much with his peers.

This chapter also reveals Demetrius is not in regular contact with Donovan anymore, contrary to what Damian believed. So Demetrius seems removed from the Desmond family sphere, but also isn't super integrated into the Eden sphere (in contrast to his 6yo brother and his friends). We can believe Demetrius isn’t close to Donovan because he is annoyed (and triggered?) by the mere mention of his father. Clearly Donovan has done something scarring to both Melinda and Demetrius and their thoughts look weird to Anya. Damian, despite craving for his father's attention and being stressed about it, is still relatively unaffected.

From now on, I think we'll slowly get more information about the Desmonds while Damian remains separated from them in the narrative. Damian is introduced as a vital part of Plan B due to his connection with his father, but even Damian himself admits there's not much of a connection. Plan B is working (sort of) because Damianya are friends, but that doesn't mean it's easier for Anya to meet Donovan. I think the narrative has been pushing Damian away from being a plot device for Plan B to being Anya's genuine friend and a victim of the Desmond parenting. At this point, Damian is not really useful to the main plot and there's not much mystery to this 6yo child.

Damian still thinks of himself as a scion of the Desmonds and he’s desperately trying to get his father’s attention. But his dad doesn’t really care, his mom loves him but doesn’t want him to be near Donovan, his brother is similar and also seemingly doesn’t want anything to do with Donovan. Meanwhile, the story establishes him as a boy with a crush on Anya, a boy with friends who will readily sacrifice themselves for him, a boy who’s willing to protect his classmates. All around Damain, his peers, associates, and the story itself has long been defining Damian as someone outside of being the Desmond family. But Damian naturally holds onto it.

Damian isn’t mysterious to Anya because she can read him. Okay, she still thinks he’s a brat sometimes, but that’s Damain being Damian, not Damian being a Desmond. But everyone else in the family is mysterious and it makes Anya feel at least vaguely uncomfortable.

The Desmonds are probably connected to Project Apple, and with the recent hints of Anya’s backstory, we might get some of that. But Damian is framed as almost completely separate to whatever went on, while Melinda and Demetrius are portrayed as victims of Donovan, mysterious and a bit weird but still sympathetic.

And that’s why I think it’s coming together— hints of Anya’s backstory, Damianya becoming better friends, the Desmonds all here. We’ve scratched the surface off and we’re hopefully going to see more.

(Also, just a thought: if Damian indeed goes through a “dark arc” and becomes more like the rest of his family, Anya will know because she can read his mind. She will be able to tell if Damian’s thoughts also start being “weird”. But they are better friends now which could be a lead up to her helping Damian deal with the pressure and struggle.)

#YEAH!!!!!!!!!#sorry nao i meant to reblog this way earlier but i. forgot i had this blog #and did not check the notifs I'M SORRYYYY #(oana here btw idk if it was obvious through my blog JKSDFKSD hewwo )

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stellas-and-tonitruses · 4 months

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VERY GOOD THOUGHTS this was a very cool read :D

i wanted to add on your prev thought about demetrius and yuri being parallels to each other like everyone else in the family is!

yuri is in direct opposition to loid, so i think that could make demetrius be in direct opposition to donovan?

we don't know much about either of them yet, but while the boy has only had like 4 pages, he's already made it clear as you already said that he's not close to his father and that he doesn't understand him (plus the reason his conversation with damian went south was because he brought up donovan, so, that's something as well)

since they're family, demetrius doesn't exactly need to be related to any organization to be in opposition to his father, so i think there's some merit to the idea :OO no concrete evidence for it yet though outside of his little burst of teenage angst SDFKLSD

also in terms of them with their siblings, i don't think demetrius and yuri share similarities in their relationship with their sibling... unless you add anya to the mix, because i do think at least thus far, with the little info we have, demetrius' relationship with damian is quite similar to yuri's with anya, where they don't really Get the younger one but there's still genuine care in there, even though yuri in particular is REALLY denying it

Anya + unraveling the mystery of the Desmond family (and Damian being different)

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stellas-and-tonitruses · 4 months

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⚠ SPOILERS FOR CHAPTER 93 AHEAD! ⚠

now that we have finally met demetrius, it seems like a great time to dissect his first scene and proper conversation! :]

his wide, unfocused stare hides ✨unexpected complexity✨, as expected of a desmond

he's impatient (common desmond trait at this point)

he's nonchalantly exceptional, as we expected and have been repeatedly told thus far

...but most importantly, amidst a sea of accomplishments, he is burdened with a lack of people skills and visibly frustrated by it, as evidenced by his conversation with damian in this chapter.

the analysis and speculation continues under the cut!!

so, a breakdown of the main meat of his introduction

similarly to every single time there's an interaction between damian and another desmond, damian is the one who reaches out first by calling out to demetrius, who immediately asks him what he wants. damian tries to begin with small talk, congratulating him on his accomplishments of the day

demetrius is brief and to the point, but it doesn't feel to me like he is annoyed here. perhaps curious, perhaps indifferent, we don't know -- demetrius is a boy of few explanatory thoughts, after all

merely in the next page, demetrius is revealed to have a blank mind for most of this conversation.

i don't believe this is a sign that demetrius was experimented on or anything. obviously, this does not rule out that he has been experimented on, but i don't think his lack of thoughts are indicative of that, nor do i believe anya was too far away (in previous chapters, she has read the thoughts of people at greater distances than this with ease!). i think this has something to do with his upbringing, but also very importantly his state of mind at the moment

his eyes are wide open, but his stare is unfocused. i think this is an intentional choice to hammer in that he's not really here at this moment, listening to what is undoubtedly to him pointless praise. he has likely tuned all of it out completely.

(as a side note, if we wanna involve anya in this situation more, we could assume that he is intentionally cloaking his thoughts from anya or any other potential mind-readers, but while i do think donovan is very likely involved in project apple, i severely doubt the financial benefactors of project apple would spend likely a lot of money to figure out a way to shield the thoughts of a middle schooler, regardless of who his dad is, from potential telepaths. as far as we know, anya is the only one with this specific power and demetrius is unlikely to have any information that would incriminate the operation. if that was an issue, i don't see why they wouldn't spend their money to protect melinda's mind, since she likely has way more info than demetrius ever could.)

moving on from that side note though,

we do not see demetrius' face as he says this! this is important to me

we are left unaware to whether or not he is disappointed or just trying to abscond to take a nap (he really needs one)

but then, he says this:

this, to me, is a direct attempt at connecting!! he's trying to reciprocate the small talk, the praise, trying to continue the conversation. his thought, "i don't understand him," may feel contradictory but to me, it only underlines his frustration about this, because he knows what damian is going to say next:

even though it was expected, this is not what demetrius was hoping to get out of this. his downturned eyebrows give a feeling of discontent. he is not blank, he is visibly frustrated, visibly annoyed.

and we are thus made aware of a boundary demetrius and melinda both share:

never mention donovan.

for one reason or another, this is the boundary damian has overstepped with both his mother AND his brother now, without ever being informed that it IS a boundary in the first place

so demetrius, upset, turns around to leave and throws this at damian:

this is important, because damian has shared a very similar sentiment to anya before, albeit in a mournful tone.

demetrius likely feels similarly neglected by his parents, but is long past feeling sad about it. he has moved straight to anger, understandably!

but the bigger reason for his frustration, imo, relates to a problem damian once again ALSO has: people treating them as a gateway to their father and nothing more.

demetrius has more than likely also been treated like this, and probably still is unless his peers have learned not to engage because of his brief, snippy responses, so he is familiar with the feeling of being used.

...and damian unknowingly treated him the exact same way, even though he's also grown to hate it.

of course, he's 6 years old and he meant no harm by this -- he's just a lonely boy trying to be noticed by his neglectful parents, after all, what else could he possibly do?

but for demetrius, this is the end of the conversation. he is not his father's manager, he's not even that close to him, so why does his brother only ever talk to him when it relates to their father?

as he said before: he doesn't understand him, and why he keeps doing this. does he not know there is little info to be gained?

he doesn't understand their father either, with his impossibly high expectations, never pleased, never happy, never available

and lastly, as ewen and emile try to introduce themselves

demetrius has one final thought.

and he casts aside this entire conversation, leaving the scene as empty as he entered it.

of course, the chapter doesn't end here, but this is where demetrius' involvement in it does, leaving us with a newfound understanding that while to damian, demetrius represents everything he can only strive to become... to demetrius? his accomplishments ring hollow in the face of everything he wishes he could understand.

we do get an extra flashback that hearkens back to a better yesterday, but while donovan is lacking some very important details (those scars, that dead disinterest that follows his every move -- he seems mirthful somehow here), we don't know if this scene represents a time when they were closer or if it's simply evidence that as far back as everyone can remember, demetrius has been doing nothing but studying all the time

could this be evidence of something nefarious relating to project apple? eh, not particularly, not to me. the boy's just studying hard, any relation to project apple would have to be more recent in the timeline imo

TL;DR:

demetrius has been built up throughout the past 92 chapters as a figure larger-than-life, and this has been thanks to most of our knowledge of him being directly affected by damian's perception of him, as the younger brother living under his shadow

however, he has now been humanized by his flaws: a short temper and a lack of social skills that comes paired with a clear want to connect, to understand, to converse. he seems to be a very lonely kid, everyone around him either jealous, putting him on a pedestal or actively seeking to use him under the false impression that he has important connections, and although he doesn't mean to, damian has unknowingly been treating demetrius in the same way, only seeking him out when he wants to know something about donovan.

interestingly, him and melinda share the same trigger, that being donovan himself, though we do not yet know if their reason for this is also shared.

CLOSING THOUGHTSSS

it has been so exciting finally meeting this little goober-- i thought i might never see the day 😭😭😭

thank you to whoever read this far, i literally made this blog just now so! HOPE I DID WELL!

💖

#spy x family #sxf #demetrius desmond #damian desmond #donovan desmond #manga spoilers #spy x family manga spoilers #sxf spoilers #ch 93 #chapter 93 #sxf ch 93 #sxf chapter 93 #spy x family ch 93 #spy x family chapter 93 #spy x family 93 #trying to cover all possible spoiler tags for anyone who has them blocked sorry #sxf theory

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