revelation19

[revelation19]

lmao, this guy thinks I'm afraid of a couple Youtubers

Catholics will tell you that "to be deep in history is to cease to be protestant".... but when you cite an actual historian they'll get really mad that you didn't just read the catechism and take it at face value instead.

[revelation19]

Seeing this after fighting with 7 different catholic blogs yesterday:

Bro, why is Christian tumblr so boring? It's just freaking pictures of churches and art of white biblical figures. Where are the memes?!? The funny church stories?! We need to up our game, it's so stale over there.

[revelation19]

Expecting our second child

yeah sure go date that person online, it’s time for a very important lesson

[revelation19]

I know this to be true... but I believe in my heart that Johnny Cash really did shoot a cop.

i think we should remind musicians they can absolutely make up little stories for their songs btw. it doesn’t have to be about them at all. you can invent a guy and put him in situations to music. time honoured tradition in fact.

[revelation19]

It's about what the Church believes. It's about showing that the church has confirmed and affirmed unbiblical nonsense and then changed their minds several times in history all while claiming that their rulings are infallible dogma.

And yes, I was researching the history of miracles in the Christian tradition and came across the research of a celebrated historian pointing out that the church believed that Mary wasn't a human being but the incarnation and personification of the eternal Madonna (i.e. a deity) and I put it on Tumblr... that pretty much sums it up, yeah.

Catholics: We don't worship Mary!

Catholic Mystics:

[revelation19]

Nah, you've got me confused with this guy...

Catholics: We don't worship Mary!

Catholic Mystics:

[revelation19]

Catholics will tell you that "to be deep in history is to cease to be protestant".... but when you cite an actual historian they'll get really mad that you didn't just read the catechism and take it at face value instead.

[revelation19]

I've sad it before but there's this weird thing that keeps happening where people reject Yrjo Hirn as a legitimate scholar because he was Finnish... I don't get it. He wasn't just an art historian, he was a historian of Aesthetics and Folk literature. His work The Sacred Shrine was published in English and Finnish and was widely received and received well. He was a respected professor at the University of Helsinki. He was more than qualified to speak on Catholic literature in history. His book is free on Archive.org you can judge it for yourself.

What I'm doing is showing that the actual historical record of what Catholics believed (institutionally as well as individually) doesn't line up with the current dogmatic positions of the church. That's fine... unless you claim your history to be "Holy Tradition." If your history is literal divine revelation then any contradiction becomes a serious problem.

Catholics: We don't worship Mary!

Catholic Mystics:

[revelation19]

Who could have seen this coming?

in case you were curious, this is the current state of NFT crypto bros on twitter

#Except literally everyone

[revelation19]

Catholics will tell you that "to be deep in history is to cease to be protestant" but then when you do even the simplest research into church history they will tell you to stop doing that and only to rely on the official teachings of the church to determine what the Church believes (or believed).

The funny thing is that all that does is show how the current teachings of the church are actually at odds with the positions of the church in history. It's almost like Rome's so called "Holy Tradition" contains contradictory dogmas...

Catholics: We don't worship Mary!

Catholic Mystics:

[revelation19]

Yeah, that's all nice, but it's not really getting at my point. My point is that there were people teaching blatant damnable heresy at worst and severe error at best who were not anathematized but canonized. Meanwhile, the same church says that I'm anathematized for being a protestant.

Since your church's history is viewed as the "Holy Tradition," if canonizing saints who believe in heresy is part of that, then...you need to reckon with it. Just citing the Catechism only serves to point at the contradictory statements of the church throughout history.

Also, as to your statement that "No new revelation about God has come since the death of the last of the twelve apostles." Well, your church disagrees with you.

The last teaching defined at Vatican 1 was...

"We teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that, when the Roman pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals. Therefore, such definitions of the Roman pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the church, irreformable."

As you can see, they claim that it is "divinely revealed dogma" that the Pope can speak infallibly Ex Cathedra.

Also, btw, I have read through the CCC, as well as mot of Vatican 1 and Vatican 2, and some of Trent as well. I've also read Bernard of Clairvoux, Teresa of Avila, and a bit of St. Mechtilde. The problem is trying to fit those mystics into the "official" positions of the church. It's pretty tough to make them fit... but the church had no problem canonizing them anyway.

Catholics: We don't worship Mary!

Catholic Mystics:

[revelation19]

Yeah, except several of the most insane mystics in church history are canonized saints.

People keep bringing up that Yrjo Hirn is Finnish as if that's relevant at all. He can't be a legitimate scholar because he's from Finland? Very odd. He was a respected professor of Aesthetics and Folk Literature at the university of Helsinki. The quote is from his book The Sacred Shrine: A study of the Poetry and Art of the Catholic Church which was published in both Finnish and English.

For people that love to say that Church history is Catholic, they sure like to sweep all the inconvenient nonsense under the rug.

Catholics: We don't worship Mary!

Catholic Mystics:

[revelation19]

It's not about what's required reading for the laity, it's about what is supported and commended by the church at large. And this cultic status of Mary surrounding her breast feeding is everywhere in the medieval period with several churches claiming to contain vials of her breast milk. That's not to mention a church that was dedicated called the Church of the Milk Grotto, built on a rock that supposedely turned white when Mary's breast milk touched it.

The idea that this was just some fringe weirdos would be a convenient out if it were true... it's not.

Catholics: We don't worship Mary!

Catholic Mystics:

[revelation19]

Yeah, because they were using the same concepts used in Christology and applying them to Mary. That's the problem. As Christ appeared to the prophets via the Angel of the Lord prior to his incarnation, they were saying that "The Madonna" appeared to the prophets prior to it's incarnation in the Virgin Mary.

That's the whole point, they are deifying Mary and using Christological language and concepts to do so... pretty troubling.

Also, it's not just that you aren't a Mecthild scholar. I wouldn't begrudge you that, I'm not either. It's that you didn't even know who she was but felt confident enough to try to correct me about her work that you didn't even know existed yesterday.

Catholics: We don't worship Mary!

Catholic Mystics:

[revelation19]

No, it's very clearly saying that the the Virgin Mary is herself the incarnation of a principle, not the she is incarnating a principle. The "principle" that is incarnated is even named. "The Madonna" acted in history prior to it's incarnation. Generalized, non-personified principles can't act in history and nothing is "eternal" except God. It's a deified representation of Mary and very clearly so.

Also, Mecthilde of Magdeburg was a she. So, not knowing that she was even a woman, I'm not at all confident in your ability to accurately explain her work.

Catholics: We don't worship Mary!

Catholic Mystics:

[revelation19]

Call it what you want, but if you don't see a problem with the idea of Mary being the incarnation of a different deity... I don't know what to tell you.

Catholics: We don't worship Mary!

Catholic Mystics:

[revelation19]

These people are so lost.

"Sure, we think Mary is the incarnation of an eternal demigod... but it's fine because we 'venerate' her."

Catholics: We don't worship Mary!

Catholic Mystics:

#lmao