nottskyler

[nottskyler]

Seeing the post about praying for Oaks reminded me of Alma the Younger:

“And he became a great hinderment to the prosperity of the church of God; stealing away the hearts of the people; causing much dissension among the people; giving a chance for the enemy of Gd to exercise his power over them.” Mosiah 27:9

But the angel didn’t come to him just because, the angel came because of the faith and prayers of his father and those around him:

“And now I say unto thee, Alma, go thy way, and seek to destroy the church no more, that their (servants of Gd and Alma’s father) prayers may be answered, and this even if thou wilt of thyself be cast off.” Mosiah 27:16

So in light of that and the desire to pray for Oaks’s heart to change. What if we fasted (2023) May’s fast Sunday for Oaks’s heart as well as the hearts of other leaders of the Church to be changed?

[nottskyler]

I was thinking about how Jacob said that David and Solomon were wrong to have many wives and about how Joseph Smith received section 132 and thought it only meant one man and many women when it clearly outlines polyamory and wondered if that’s what happened.

Like Gd told David the law of polyamory because he knew he needed a man and still liked women (which was needed as the plan was for Christ to come from his line), but then David just ignored the other part like Joseph did. And then you think about Uriah and wonder, what if both he and Bathsheba were meant to be his?

Uriah refused to go sleep with his wife, instead opting to sleep at David’s door. He said it would be wrong to eat and drink with his wife, but went ahead and ate and drank with David and slept it off with David’s servants instead.

I’m imagining Gd facepalming being like you weren’t supposed to kill him, you were supposed to marry him too. Yeah I don’t like that you slept with Bathsheba before asking Uriah (really for her to ask him for proper consent in the relationship, hopefully he would also make sure she really wanted to and wasn’t just doing it because of a power imbalance), but it seems like Uriah really wouldn’t care as long as you took him too. But then you killed him! After he basically begged you to take him too!

#two cents #random Bible thoughts #polyamory #queerstake

[nottskyler]

Just reached the part in "rough stone rolling" about joseph Smith and treasure hunting, or folk magic, and I'm VERY interested. Just bought a book on early mormonism and occultism which will come in the mail soon.

Im so resentful of how cookie cutter and set in stone mormonism has become. Mormonism's beauty is partly in its uniqueness and potential for flexibility and I a queer mormon have a lot of value to bring to the church BECAUSE of my uniqueness as well. In order to make this a place queer people can be, I think we need to embrace breaking the mold. Cultural mormonism, as I know it, is obsessed with conformity to a detriment. The restoration is not over. We don't believe in personal revelation or living prophets just so we can cling to a rigid, preconceived notion of right and wrong and who we are as Mormons.

#agreed #Mormonism has spent too much time trying to be like other Christians #and they still don’t accept us as full Christians #we might as well go back to our weirdness #revelation that actually changes things #seeking to build communities with no rich and no poor

[nottskyler]

Especially considering the wording: “In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—“ D&C 89:4

And other supportive points:

-“every fruit in the season thereof;” to avoid pollution from shipping it in from elsewhere

-“Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;” because of the destruction of ecosystems to create fields for animals as well as to produce enough food for them (alfalfa for beef being one of the most notable complaint)

The older I get, the more I think the actual wisdom behind the Word of Wisdom wasn't as a health code, even though that's how we've been billing it for decades now. It makes sense as a justification for why not to consume alcohol and tobacco. But that logic doesn't hold for tea and coffee.

I think it makes more sense when viewed through the lens of climate change and the prevention of human exploitation.

How much carbon capturing rainforest land has been destroyed forever for coffee plantations?

How much slave labor, historical and current, has gone into producing tea, hops, and barley?

I descend from a long line of tobacco growers in Virginia. I've seen the records of slave ownership that supported that industry in the American South up until emancipation. There was, and is, a real human cost to producing tobacco, the same as there was with cotton. And it's still happening today all over the world. Tobacco is a global industry that is still relying on slavery to produce profit. The same can be said for many of the ingredients that go into producing the products forbidden by the Word of Wisdom.

If we view the Word of Wisdom through the perspective of preventing human suffering and the proper care of our planet, rather than just as a health law, the rationale behind not consuming alcohol, tobacco, tea, and coffee is nothing short of pure revelation.

Abstaining from these things isn't just a social marker of religious identity. It's the acknowledgement that there is no ethical way to consume them in markets that use exploitation and abuse to produce profit. And if there is no way to ethically consume them, then it makes sense why the law would be to forgo them entirely.

[nottskyler]

I had forgotten that John 7:17 was spoken by Jesus Christ about His words. If a prophet or apostle demands us to accept their word as law without testing it to see if it is of Gd or not, they are exalting themselves above Christ. If they are upset when we say we tested it and that one of their declarations is of man and not of Gd, they are denying the truth that Gd’s doctrine is good enough to speak for itself.

Of course there are people who ignore it and choose to reject truth, but the consequence is not feeling Gd’s love and peace. But when LGBT people say they don’t feel the love of Gd when they try to be cis and straight but do feel it when they are true to themselves, that is Gd’s doctrine speaking for itself. It isn’t us rejecting truth and living our lives how we want regardless of the consequences.

#personal study #come follow me #queerstake

[nottskyler]

Efforts to include Religious workers

This past Sunday, a man came up to me at church and said he’s been thinking about what I said at the last stake general priesthood meeting when I spoke of being a gay member. He’s been wanting to talk with me because his company is supportive a queer people, and that’s fine, but they don’t lift up religious people in the same way and he’s unhappy about that. How can he bring that up to his employer? 

He says he has been discriminated against in the past for sharing his religious beliefs and asked if I have some suggestions he can present in the company diversity meetings of how the business can support their religious employees?

This happened in the hallway between meetings, so there wasn’t time to have much of a discussion. In our conversation, the Utah compromise was mentioned and that Elder Oaks has spoken in favor of anti-discrimination protections for LGBTQ individuals, and that religious people are protected by constitutional amendment. He commented that he wishes church leaders would explain how support for anti-discrimination measures for LGBTQ people are compatible with our beliefs, but if Elder Oaks is in favor then clearly the principles are good ones. He asked that if I think of ideas he can present to his company or any good resources, to email him.

I’ve written my response and am sharing here since this blog is where I write about the experience of existing in the intersection of being queer and LDS.

————————————————————

I’ve been thinking about our conversation of your workplace not celebrating or lifting up religious people the same way it does other groups, like LGBTQ employees.

Companies put many policies in place to show they’re welcoming to different groups. It benefits the company as their diverse employees can give insight on how to reach customers in different subgroups. It’s good for people to see themselves as desired customers and welcome in that space.

The thing about creating a welcoming environment is not everyone is welcome. It feels like an oxymoron, but to create a tolerant space we have to be intolerant of intolerance. If openly racist people were employed & welcomed by a business, then those targeted by their racism would not feel welcome or safe.

Will religious-related conversations make other people feel unsafe? Unfortunately, Christians are increasingly known only for wanting to be able to discriminate against others, for opposing gay rights and medical procedures they don’t like, for child abuse by church leaders, for committing violence against trans people or immigrants, and so on. No wonder employers worry about religious conversations at work. 

If a company chooses to celebrate and empower their religious employees, how would it do this? And is that what religious people want? If a work group was put together to come up with ways for the company to be more inclusive of religious people, what would their recommendations be? A business can acknowledge Pride Month or Black History Month or Veteran’s Day, how would it choose which religious holidays to recognize? Most businesses in the US already recognize Christmas, do they need to do more? 

Even though things are better now than in the past, as a gay person, I generally enter a space with the assumption that I have to be careful. If I walk in and see a little rainbow flag, it is such a relief to me, I can let down my guard, it indicates that this is a safe place for queer people, and I would expect homophobic things not to be tolerated in that space. As for entering a space as a person of faith, it’s the opposite. Usually I assume I’m fine, in fact I don’t think about it unless I see something that indicates maybe I wouldn’t be well received. 

That may sound overdramatic, but I grew up in a society where negative things being said about gay people was accepted and common, and for most of my life many basic legal protections were not in place. It was only in 2020 when federal Civil Rights protections for queer people came into effect. Even today, our governor and legislature are targeting LGBTQ people as a way to boost their appeal, and it feels scary to me and makes me worry about how many people agree with those things. Christianity isn’t targeted in the same way. That makes displays of support for queer people more important to me than support for Christian people because the risk isn’t the same.

Being someone who is both gay and religious, it’s interesting to see how the perception & reality of both groups has changed. For gay people, it’s been a series of steps forward, like getting queer characters in mass media, getting the same legal rights that other people already have, it’s moving towards being equal and included in society. Milestones towards equality and inclusion still are taking place, like having the first openly-gay governor elected or the first trans person getting elected to a state legislature.

What I see happening to Christians is their legal protections aren’t taken away but their privileged place in society is being curtailed. The loss of privilege can feel like oppression because what people were once free to do no longer is acceptable. As someone who is part of a group that has been legally and culturally oppressed, I wouldn’t characterize the experience of Christians the same way. I think what is happening is Christians are moving towards becoming a minority group. 50 years ago, 90% of American adults identified as Christian, today it’s 63% and dropping, and among adults under age 35, it’s less than 50%. That has implications. Are Christians ready to be treated the same way as Jewish or Hindu people in our nation? 

Still, with all that being said, employers can do things for their religious employees, similar to how they help other groups. Here’s a few ideas: 

Provide “quiet rooms” or spaces employees can use to pray. There’s a Muslim who I sometimes see praying in the stairwell of my building and wouldn’t it be better if there was a designated space where she could go and not be disturbed as she prays?

Is food at company events going to have kosher or halal options?

Since religious discussions in the workplace can be risky, maybe training can be provided on how to learn about co-workers’ religious preferences with respectful discussions.

Company policies sometimes inadvertently discriminate with dress codes. Can a Muslim woman wear a head covering, can a Sikh man have a beard? Perhaps for safety reasons a necklace with a cross can’t be worn in a manufacturing or health care setting, but is there a way for that employee to wear a cross in a way that is safe?

Is there flexibility for a religious employee to attend a special worship service on their religious holiday? 

Can a group of religious employees get together at lunch to support one another?

#exactly #are you complaining that people dislike you because you are religious #or are you complaining that you can’t preach to your coworkers and tell them they are winning

[nottskyler]

Seeing the post about praying for Oaks reminded me of Alma the Younger:

“And he became a great hinderment to the prosperity of the church of God; stealing away the hearts of the people; causing much dissension among the people; giving a chance for the enemy of Gd to exercise his power over them.” Mosiah 27:9

But the angel didn’t come to him just because, the angel came because of the faith and prayers of his father and those around him:

“And now I say unto thee, Alma, go thy way, and seek to destroy the church no more, that their (servants of Gd and Alma’s father) prayers may be answered, and this even if thou wilt of thyself be cast off.” Mosiah 27:16

So in light of that and the desire to pray for Oaks’s heart to change. What if we fasted (2023) May’s fast Sunday for Oaks’s heart as well as the hearts of other leaders of the Church to be changed?

[nottskyler]

I miss the temple. It was a place where I felt Gd’s love, filling me with peace and resolve to do what is right and what was good. Yes, I still had depression and could still be stuck in bed for days, but I always felt better about myself and my place in the world. It’s one of the few places I could go and not feel odd or excluded or worthless.

It’s been over three years since a policy change not backed by doctrine has taken that privilege from me. To those who made the policy, you are covered in the spots of the good things I could’ve done with the special resolve and inspiration I got from the temple.

Instead I fall victim to the fear and suspicion suburbia inspires in your neighbors (not helped by being outed by them to new neighbors I only met once prior), lack motivation to get out and find ways to serve in my community, and most importantly am not overflowing with the love of Gd for others that helps me engage with people in a way I’m not good at normally.

And a gentle reminder that if Church doesn’t make you feel the way I describe the temple helping me, you aren’t a bad person for leaving it behind. Spend time in the places that fill you with Gd’s love for others (and yourself).

#personal #please do not reblog

[nottskyler]

[nottskyler]

For those who stay, I think it is more about what we gain or have gained than what we can give. You can’t give more than you have and if going to Church drains you, you have less to love and to give.

Doctrinal terms, the body of Christ needs different body parts and we can’t all be the heart like David. And we will fall into our potential by living what works for us.

Staying is also not the only way to help, deconstructing faith is a hard task and people aren’t going to come to me about it because I’m in the Church. People need guides on both sides of Church activity because remaining in the Church is not right for everyone.

This is where you are to use your gift of the Holy Ghost to figure out what is right for you. Where is your spirituality and relationship with Gd? Are your choices making it easier to love and care for those around you or do you feel like you are in survival mode? Does the Church make that better or worse or the same?

Hi David! Thank you for your answer to the latest ask you got. I grew up in the church, am not queer but have many friends that are, and have been struggling with these questions for the past ten years maybe. Right now I feel like I’m staying so queer members won’t be alone. I had a temple interview with my branch president this Sunday, and I answered yes the question if I support doctrine that is contrary to the church’s teachings. My branch president was at least forthcoming enough to not immediately shut me down, and he didn’t see a reason for me not getting my temple recommendation, but I was still so discouraged by the conversation we had. He asked me if I had prayed about it (!!), and now I really wish I had asked “Have you?” There’s such unwillingness to learn or even entertain the idea that the church might be wrong about most of it’s teachings about LGTBQ+, and it makes me so heartbroken. The attitude also that queer people are some kind of weirdos “over there” doing their own thing instead of being here, with us, our friends and family, is also so prevailing and it drives me nuts. But if I can make someone feel loved and welcome I should probably stay, right? Also it is as you say: this is my religion, my faith. I don’t want to be driven away by ignorance.

I'm glad your Branch President asked some questions and determined you still qualify for a recommend. It's okay to have different understandings from the top leadership. That question was originally added as a way to root out polygamists who joined the LDS Church in order to go to the temple, and then once they had the temple ordinances they would go back to their polygamous community.

You have to decide if staying in church is beneficial for you. If you can make someone feel loved and welcome that may be enough for you, or maybe it's not enough. I put together my list to show there's multiple reasons, some more important and some less so, for why someone may stay in church.

My friend Cal Burke, a gay LDS college student, says some of the reasons he stays are "Community, friends, a sense of spiritual fulfillment, general happiness, I get to sing songs, I get to have strangers who look out for me (in a good way), I like talking about scriptures. I could go on but I like many things about Mormonism & think Mormonism is good in moderation"

I have something else from the chapter I wrote for that book I'd like to share with you that I hope helps as you think about the differences you have in belief from the church on LGBTQ topics:

"It’s interesting that the Church has rules and policies and doctrines about queer people without revelation or scripture to base them on. Where is the revelation to oppose same-gender marriages? When did they get a revelation that gay people shouldn’t have companionship and love? Where’s the revelation that God doesn’t want me to fall in love with another man? Where’s the revelation that God doesn’t want someone to express their gender identity? Maybe the answer is that the Church does not have revelations about individual situations, but that is our job."

[nottskyler]

I'm so sorry for asking this, but I just have no context for what it must be like to be you, and I wish I did. How do you still stay a part of the LDS faith? I'm LDS, and I kind of fit the stereotype of the "normal" LDS guy a bit too well (besides being divorced, but that's becoming more common), and I have friends who have come out as LGBTQ+ and have left the church. I can't bring myself to blame them because of how anti-LGBTQ+ the Church is in general, and it seems like that's the only outcome that makes sense for them to live happy, fulfilling lives. How do you balance the two? I wish the church would be more LGBTQ+ friendly, but right now it's barely making a minimal effort, and that's gotta be difficult to face. What do you hang on to when it feels like the leadership, members, culture, and even doctrine are against who you are? Once again, sorry if this is intrusive; feel free to ignore it if it's a question you don't have the energy or time to answer.

I agree with you, church is a difficult place for LGBTQ+ people. Most queer people wind up leaving the LDS Church in their quest to be healthy, happy, and whole.

I'll share with you an answer I gave to this question in the book Living on the Inside of the Edge:

I stay because these are my people.

I stay because this is where I learned to communicate with the Divine.

I stay because it makes things easier with my family.

I stay because it’s familiar.

I stay because of inertia.

I stay because there’s queer kids who need someone.

I stay because I’m stubborn.

I stay because Jesus invited me to.

I stay because I will not be erased. My presence means the Church has to recognize queer people exist.

I stay because I feel like I make a difference.

When I was not out, I stayed as part of trying to pass as straight.

I stay because I want to increase understanding.

I stay because it gives me credibility with LDS parents of queer kids.

I stay because sometimes my soul is stirred at church.

I stay because humans have a need for religion as evidenced by the many religions we have created since time immemorial.

I stay because this is my church, too. I get to stake a claim to it as long as I want to belong

I stay for the meaning making in my life.

I stay because it helps me try to be better and do better.

I stay because all the service & assignments I’ve been asked to do have made me better

I stay because why should I have to cede all spaces to the bigots and retreat to only queer-friendly spaces, how will that ever improve things?

[nottskyler]

This is where the Book of Mormon would’ve been very different if it had been written by the Lamanites instead of Nephites. Jacob tells the Nephites to not judge the Lamanites because they treat their women with more respect (Jacob 3) and the unnamed but powerful women (including the mothers of the stripling warriors) are of the Lamanite stock.

Clearly the wife of King Lamoni had some power and Amalickiah had to gain the queen’s hand in marriage to win the throne (though I don’t think she chose him of her own free will and choice). Abish had authority and sway to gather people to listen to the message. And the wife of King Lamoni’s father had power to tell the servants to kill Aaron. It’s almost like the Nephites could’ve had their own stripling warriors if they gave their women more rights.

Do you know what makes me saddest about women and our roles (or lack thereof) in the history of our church? How little represented we seem to be in the scriptures— specifically in the Book of Mormon. With the exception of Eve and Mary, I know of only three women in the BOM who are specifically given a name: Sariah, Abish, and the harlot Isabel. Every other woman who is ever alluded to is usually a servant or a queen or a daughter without much of a story.

I long to know the names and stories of the wives and servants and daughters of the men whose names were (supposedly) more worth recording. It doesn’t help that the handful of stories we have of these faithful women, while powerful, are so few and far in between by comparison. I get kind of depressed on Mother’s Day when every speaker trots out the same set of scriptures in Alma 56. It’s like… “Yes, these mothers were awesome, but is this really the only example you could find of a faithful mother in the Book of Mormon or any other scriptures?”

Anyhoo, feel free to ignore my whinging. It’s been a long day and my cat is biting me. 😑

Yes. It's a shame.

It reminds me of genealogy in China, Japan, & Korea. They can trace their family history back for hundreds and thousands of years. The kicker is that it's men-related-to-men. Only rarely will a woman get mentioned.

I learned a technique where we can attempt to fill in the gaps. Take what we know from what's written about the men or what the men are purported to have said. What references do they make to their wife or to other women? What about things attributed to the women who are unnamed? We can create the conversations that must've happened. We can recreate the situations in a way to understand how the women were involved. If we spend time to find their stories, there's some inspiring women characters.

One of the problems of our holy book being so male-centric is we expect women to be able to relate to the men and their stories, but men generally do not spend time contemplating the women who are present in the stories and try likening those stories to themselves. It's why the story of the mom's of the stripling warriors gets trotted out every Mother's Day but we don't share the story of Abish or Isabel or Sariah and talk about lessons the men can learn from their stories...not from how they interacted with the men but from the woman's experience and perspective.

#two cents #book of mormon

[nottskyler]

A Losing Game

My observation is once a member of our church changes their views about queer people, they never go back to their former way of thinking. Once they see these are God’s children who were created this way and that God loves them as their queer selves, they can’t unsee it.

There’s usually several stops along the way. First they go from anti-queer and adversarial to more neutral on the topic of queer people as they recognize what they thought they knew about queer people wasn’t quite right. They continue to move on to be accepting, supportive, an ally, and finally an advocate.

What causes this change of heart? 

Typically it’s developing personal relationships and friendships with LGBTQ+ individuals, this includes when a child or family member comes out as queer and suddenly they know & love a queer individual. Now the queer community is not a nameless, faceless group they know little about, this is their child, their sibling, their parent, their neighbor, their friend. All the anti-queer things said at church hits differently, this is about a person they know & love and it doesn’t sit right.

They may not know how queer people fit into the gospel or in this church, and the absence of answers to these questions is troubling for them because they know God wouldn’t exclude these individuals for expressing their God-given nature. As rejecting messages about queer people are heard, now it also wounds those who love them. 

They accept that church isn’t a good space for queer individuals and they ache that it isn’t better. Some will work to make it a better space, voicing their opinions, wearing rainbow pins, joining support groups, posting supportive messages on social media, and asking questions to leaders. Some decide if my family member isn’t fully welcome here, then I no longer want to be here, they choose to stand with their family.

As more queer people are out publicly and are known by church members, this becomes a losing game for the church. People’s hearts are guiding them to be accepting and loving of queer people and the failure of church to keep up is a problem for them. 

[nottskyler]

Commandments of men: black people should not have authority in the Church, we don’t let them have the Priesthood and receive temple covenants so they can’t

Supposed Doctrine: black people are descendants of Cain and/or violated covenants before coming to earth and thus are unworthy of the temple

It boggles my mind that we can study the New Testament and go through all of the teachings of Christ against the Pharisees and still walk away thinking Church leaders are infallible. As if Christ wouldn’t be saying the same things to us today.

“But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” Matthew 15:9

[nottskyler]

“But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” Matthew 15:9

#come follow me #personal study #New Testament

[nottskyler]

[nottskyler]

Seeing the post about praying for Oaks reminded me of Alma the Younger:

“And he became a great hinderment to the prosperity of the church of God; stealing away the hearts of the people; causing much dissension among the people; giving a chance for the enemy of Gd to exercise his power over them.” Mosiah 27:9

But the angel didn’t come to him just because, the angel came because of the faith and prayers of his father and those around him:

“And now I say unto thee, Alma, go thy way, and seek to destroy the church no more, that their (servants of Gd and Alma’s father) prayers may be answered, and this even if thou wilt of thyself be cast off.” Mosiah 27:16

So in light of that and the desire to pray for Oaks’s heart to change. What if we fasted (2023) May’s fast Sunday for Oaks’s heart as well as the hearts of other leaders of the Church to be changed?

#queerstake