kipandkandicore

[kipandkandicore]

What's wrong with endogenic systems being in LGBT or autism spaces?

If they keep their misinformation to themselves or don't make being lgbt or autistic another endo thing, it should be fine. But a lot of endos say DID is possible without trauma, and all of them think non disordered plurality is possible. Even if endogenic plurality is possible, its disordered because its simply not how the typical brain works. Endos also steal terms for DID/OSDD and stole a term from another religion, another culture, the term they stole has nothing to do with plurality. Endos are so big on their agenda of spreading misinformation and making everything about them (thats why they want to invade every space) its best they stay out.

[kipandkandicore]

cw// fakeclaiming, prejudice against non traumagenic headmates

here are some sources on endogenic systems!

#for the most part we really like this! #though it’s worth mentioning that many asian and specifically tibetan buddhists have expressed concerns over tulpamancy language #and the term ‘tulpa’ (not the practice itself!) is in fact cultural appropriation #but other than that we really love this slideshow

[kipandkandicore]

on system terminology: traumascum

tldr: the word “traumascum” is used online by anti endos and system medicalists as a way to delegitimize endogenic systems way more often than it’s used by pro endos to put down or harm trauma-formed systems or those who don’t believe in plurality without trauma.

ah, and so we’re back… wanting to talk about something that’s been bothering us lately in syscourse and greater system spaces.

personally, our system hates the word “traumascum.” equating trauma survivors to scum is never a good look, regardless of the intentions. we understand the term to be a synonym of sysmed, similarly to how truscum is a synonym of transmed. but who actually uses this term, these days or in the past?

we spent a long time searching on tumblr, reddit, twitter, and the internet in general for instances where “traumascum” has been used. on tumblr and twitter, we searched through over two years’ worth of posts from all sorts of people using the term. on reddit, we searched through the r/plural and r/did subreddits.

and in general, we saw almost no one at all use this term to genuinely refer to system medicalists or even trauma-formed systems at all. we honestly saw almost no endogenic systems use this term whatsoever.

the overwhelming majority of instances of the term “traumascum” were by anti endos who were using it as a way to take a dig at endogenic systems. seriously, for every one instance of someone using traumascum in a derogatory way towards system medicalists, there were probably 20-30 posts with people complaining about how endogenic systems have used the term against them. we cannot emphasize enough the sheer amount of folks using traumascum as a “gotcha” for endogenic systems or their own reasoning for why they don’t support endogenic plurality.

in reality, most endogenic systems used the term in the context of “hey, this term sucks, let’s not use it.” in all the posts we witnessed, on all the social media platforms we combed through, we saw scarcely any endogenic systems use “traumascum” in any other context.

don’t believe us on this? you can search for this term on these platforms just the same as us, and you’ll come across the same posts that we saw while we were researching for this post. we’re not saying that no one has ever used the word “traumascum” in a derogatory way against trauma-formed systems. we’re just saying that moments like this are incredibly, incredibly rare.

what is vastly more common is seeing anti endos use this term to justify their hatred for endogenic systems. that’s what we saw through our searches, anyway.

idk if this post is coherent or will make much sense to anyone, but we thought it was worth sharing. maybe as a community (whether as syscoursers or as systems) we can strive towards a future where this word is dead and buried forever. until then, maybe let’s think twice before using it as a means to harm or delegitimize other systems. take care of yourselves, and thanks for your time.

#syscourse #traumascum

[kipandkandicore]

I think the most mind-numbing part of syscourse is just seeing people claim that you don’t exist. You’re wrong about your lived everyday experience. You don’t actually feel or experience what you say you do, I know more about your life than you do. Even if it’s not explicitly typed out that way, that’s how a lot of anti-endogenics sound. Prove your existence to me. Open up your mind and pull out all the people in there for me to see and approve of.

#this is a huge reason why we don’t engage in syscourse much these days

[kipandkandicore]

“You can have DID without trauma!”

Vent art. Mod “Armageddon.” Tw for COCSA and general abuse.

You are a system. You have DID. You do not know this.

You go through 15 years, not knowing this — just existing in a haze, having such a bright childhood, one you grasp for later in the dark moments, trying desperately to hold onto it.

At 15, you realize, wait. I think something’s wrong. You realize you don’t feel like “yourself” — and even more alarming, you don’t know who “you” even are. You hear voices, suddenly, in your head. You find notes you clearly wrote, but it’s someone else’s handwriting, someone else’s words to “you.”

You just need to figure out who “you” is.

You go to your sexual abuser abusive romantic partner best friend because your abusive neglectful overbearing parents would never understand, or might be too worried about you. You ask them, “What’s wrong with me? I’m scared. I’m confused. I feel like I’m going to die.”

They smile. They want you, they need you to stay, and to stay you can’t be scared. “Don’t worry — that’s normal.”

You sigh in relief. Thank goodness. You’re fine. You’re okay. Nothing is wrong. The voices are just normal things everyone else experiences. The fun imaginative things in my head are normal. The fighting, screaming, sobbing, fear, need to run, need to love, need to help everyone while fully believing you’re about to get hit, or touched, or watched, always watched—

Don’t worry. That’s normal.

You are a system. You have DID. You do not know this.

You are 19. You’re not sure when that happened — isn’t time silly that way? You are normal. You were a bit “quirky” and “cringy” in high school, roleplaying a lot. You do not remember the voices in your head. You do not remember their names. You do not remember two entire years of high school, and you do not remember that you have forgotten.

You see a student presentation in class about a story, and how the main character could be read as having dissociative identity disorder. “The symptoms come from childhood trauma,” the student says, “but people don’t always remember their trauma.”

She describes the symptoms. You feel… weird. Why does that sound so familiar? So normal? You laugh a little and look around, expecting everyone else to be rolling their eyes at such an obvious observation. How ridiculous of psychologists to diagnose a very normal thing, right? But everyone else is nodding along, very interested, and the professor praises the student for her psychological lens, and “valuable research gathering on a rare disorder.”

You don’t remember going to your dorm, or the test you took that day online. The next thing you remember is not being “you” anymore, because “you” is locked in a room in your mind, and now you’re someone else, sobbing at the website you’ve pulled up. It’s about dissociative identity disorder.

You’re not you. You’re someone else.

You go to your best friend. You tell them everything at 4am, sobbing because you don’t know what to do anymore, and you’re scared, because you don’t know who you are.

“You’re not crazy. This isn’t normal, but you aren’t crazy. I believe you.”

You breathe for the first time in years months weeks days.

You are 19. You have DID. You think.

There’s only one problem; you don’t have trauma. You do. It’s there. They hurt you so much, you idiot, why can’t you hear the voices screaming that at you? So what on earth are you experiencing?

You try to research it. All you have is a DSM-III and resources on multiple personality disorder. And, of course, tumblr — your home away from home.

You find a war happening. People with trauma versus people who say they have none. They all seem to hear voices, and many are angry and struggling and confused, just like you. You must be like these “plurals” you’ve seen. The ones without trauma but with DID. That’s not what that was, and you know that now, but it’s was so hard to tell back then.

You join them. “I have DID,” you say, “but I don’t have trauma.”

“That’s okay!” They tell you. “You can have DID without trauma.”

What a relief. You’re normal. You’re fine. You’re not like those anti-endos, you’re told. “They medicalize their systems,” you’re told, “and their therapists are abusing them.” You feel so bad for those poor systems. They’re not like you; you’re fine. You’re normal. Unlike them.

You try to avoid the traumatized ones, but you see so many of them getting angry. They keep yelling about these people who don’t have trauma, who are “appropriating a disorder” — that same disorder you clearly have, but you don’t have trauma.

You crash your car while dissociating so hard that you hallucinate your parts headmates around you. And you are happy, because at least you have a family to take care of you. Isn't it so nice to see your parts headmates in real life?

You're normal. It's okay. You don't have trauma. You don't need trauma to be a system, and you love being a system. No you DON'T, the parts scream, you're dreaming! Wake up! Wake up, please, god, don't let that woman hug you, don't you know what she did--

You keep moving on.

Then you see the arguments that spark something in you. “You need trauma, but the age range is wider than you’d think.”

Your sexual abuser abusive romantic partner best friend from high school. There’d been that time you fell out with her. That time you blew up at her because she’d kissed you in public, blamed you for teasing her too much. You realize how little you remember.

What else have you forgotten?

“I have trauma but it’s well past the age range,” you say to an anti-endo, knowing you shouldn't have spoken to them, because everyone tells you not to -- but none of them are traumatized, and this person is. “What’s wrong with people having this disorder without trauma?”

“There’s decades of research on this,” you’re told. “It sounds like you do have trauma. Consider that you might have some you don’t remember. Otherwise, you don’t have DID.”

You are 19. You have DID, you know it. You ignore this person. “These other people told me I don’t need trauma. You’re just gatekeeping. You’re just wrong. I’m not traumatized. I’m not like you. I’m better.”

You go to the ones who comforted you, listened to you, manipulated you. "I have trauma, I think, but it's past the age those anti-endos talk about, how ridiculous are they?"

"I'm so proud of you for standing up to those sysmeds! A lot of us have been traumatized because of how people treat our system. I'm sorry those anti-endos traumatized you."

"Well, it wasn't them -- but you're right. Anti-endos are traumatizing. They've traumatized me."

You believe the lie you spread, because they spread it first, and it sounds right. You do not mention that you learned you were sexually assaulted by a peer as a child. That would just be trauma dumping, and that would make you no better than a sysmed.

You are 19. You’re “cured” of your DID, because the plurals around you say that if you like your system, you don’t have DID. They say if you can’t remember your trauma, you probably don’t have any, and “most DID is caused by trauma, you just might be a disordered plural.” They call you endogenic, or mixed-origin, or autigenic. Trying to suggest you have DID leads to them talking about those horrible traumatized systems DID systems disordered systems anti-endos.

“You can’t listen to them. You can’t reblog from them. They’re homophobic, racist, transphobic, bigoted, ableist, wrong. Any information they share is ableist.”

You listen. You always have. You roll your eyes good naturedly at them suggesting you don't have trauma -- they just meant your system isn't caused by trauma. They just misspoke. That's all.

... But what if they're right?

You are 20. You are a ????? system. You say you have DID, because you are disordered and fit all of the criteria, and you can have DID without trauma. Maybe you are just plural?

You start getting into fights with systems online. You spread misinformation your experiences. Anyone who disagrees with you is an ableist gatekeeper. You get fakeclaimed and it hurts. Now you are traumatized by anti-endos. You try to avoid them more, falling deeper into those circles that include everyone, including you. They must love you. They love everyone.

You see a post about trauma. You realize, slowly, so so slowly, your parents have hurt you. You remember everything. No??? You remember so little, the voices scream, sob, you can’t remember it because you’re not even trying to. Why bother trying when you can live in denial, and keep getting abused each time you go home, and keep getting hurt worse and worse every single weekend?

You are 20. You are a DID system. You have trauma. You know some of it.

You go to your manipulators harassers friends. “I figured it out! My system was formed my trauma!"

“Oh, you poor soul, who told you that?”

You feel cold. “What?”

“Those awful anti-endos fakeclaiming you-“

You feel isolated. “No?”

“You can’t listen to them. You’re autigenic. You’re being manipulated. You don’t have trauma.”

“My parents-“

“They love you, that’s not abuse. They were rich, that’s not abuse. They only yelled at you, that’s not abuse. You aren’t traumatized — don’t let the anti-endos convince you that you are.”

You are desperate. “But my DID!”

They frown at you. “You don’t need trauma to have DID. Saying otherwise makes you a sysmed."

You leave your friends. They weren’t friends at all.

You isolate. You have nobody. You made it clear that you would not speak to the filth anti-endos traumatized systems like yourself. You have nobody left to talk about your trauma with.

You are 21. You are a traumatized DID system. You only have your partner and in real life friends. Your abusers force you to drink on your birthday, and come into your safe space. You have nightmares for weeks.

Then you’re 22 and you are stuck with your abusers. You can see their faces now. You know the truth. You feel sick.

You are 23. 24. 25. You find new circles. You've researched trauma more, not nearly enough. You briefly become anti-endo, frustrated as you see more and more people hurt like you were, frustrated that the pro-endo spaces do not have any resources for those like you. Then you mellow, you try to divorce your trauma from your experience online. You try to find places to spread research and knowledge, to be traumatized and have people recognize what that means.

You are attacked for being traumatized, because this space has never been safe for trauma victims. You remember how you used to think when you were 19. You remember how you felt when you were left all alone. You try to keep the doors open, but it's so so hard, and you have to take care of yourself too. But you try. God, you try to help others.

You are 26.

You are in so many circles — endogenic, plural, CDD, traumatic, traumagenic, it doesn’t matter. You have so many people.

You see people telling others, “You don’t need trauma to have DID!” You take a deep breath and follow what your disgusting medicalist inclusive and welcoming therapist has taught you about stopping spirals. You try not to say anything deep at first, because you’re clearly triggered, and recent lessons have taught you more that you need can’t be traumatized online without getting hurt badly.

But you see people denying their trauma. Saying, “I don’t remember any trauma, and even if I did have trauma, I don’t feel like I do."

You remember being that way. You remember not remembering. You remember how your parents sexually abused you, now, even after you thought you’d remembered it all. You remember how your parents hit you and neglected you alongside their overbearing lack of boundary keeping. You remember how you convinced yourself it wasn’t trauma.

You remember how you went back, for years, because of what people said.

You could have left at 19. You had the chance. The options. The doors to freedom were wide open, and you did not step out, because you thought your cage was already freedom.

How much sooner could you have been free if you had simply acknowledged you had trauma, and it had been made clear that it was okay to have trauma? That it would be safe to leave? That you deserved to be able to leave?

You do research. You've done research. You try to find proof of endogenic -- of non-trauma -- DID. You find fakeclaiming. You find people misinterpreting statistics, or even flat out lying about statistics. You find decades, even centuries of research, in the attempt to figure out what's happening. You even resort to literary analysis, because at least you might be able to find evidence of people discussing non-trauma DID as a legitimate scientific thing while psychoanalysing old texts -- just like back at 19, back in college, back when you first heard what DID was.

You find nothing.

You try to share your experiences still. You try to explain in more private spaces, spaces where there can't be anonymous hatred flung your way -- or worse, people who have determined that you are an enemy that must be defeated taking each word you say and twisting it to demonize you -- and you watch in horror as they remember.

"That's trauma?"

"That's disordered?"

"I've never heard of this before."

"I thought I was endogenic. I thought I didn't have trauma."

They're fine. They struggle -- but trauma is a struggle -- and more importantly, they now know what resources to even aim for. They know where to look. They know what can help.

You wish you'd known that.

And you will never, ever stop being bitter about the years those people took from you. You will never forgive them for their fakeclaiming. You will never forgive them for the years you spent being abused more.

But it's okay.

It's normal.

And isn't it better to be inclusive of that very slim amount of people who, despite all evidence to the contrary, and despite all of Occam's understandings, and despite the harm that inclusiveness does to those who are suffering, just have DID without any of that pesky, disgusting trauma?

What do I know? I'm just a filthy sysmed.

#thank you for baring your heart in this way #wishing you so much comfort and rest and recovery circular

[kipandkandicore]

I know this may abit out of place but what is a endogenic system?

hi, this blog is for education so no worries! an endogenic system is a fake form of a dissociative disorder that claims to be a system without experiencing trauma. (which is literally a requirement for anyone to be a system.) someone may choose to use this label if they are a system that denies their trauma, a singlet who thinks it's "fun" to be a system, or any other strange reason. it mocks and invalidates people who are actually plural, in a system, and experience these dissociations. you could probably learn a lot more about these things in your own research, but i hope this helps a little bit!

[kipandkandicore]

honestly we are not trying to get back into syscourse all that much…

but we recently read this article by zarah eve, kim heyes, and sarah parry published last year in the journal clinical psychology and psychotherapy and want to share it here.

Conceptualizing multiplicity spectrum experiences: A systematic review and thematic synthesis

it’s a systemic review of 13 studies on multiplicity, with a focus on multiplicity as a broad spectrum of experiences that may include, but are not limited to, dissociative disorders like did/osdd.

we think it’s a hopeful piece of reputable academic literature in support of nontraumagenic plurality that some syscoursers might find interesting. it’s exciting to see research on multiplicity taken seriously in academic spaces - we’re looking forward to what the future holds for plural research!

#syscourse #pro endo #plural research

[kipandkandicore]

btw acting like acknowledging that Some endos are actually CDD systems in denial of/who dont remember their trauma is just an anti-endo talking point is really horrifically invalidating to those of us who did actually have that experience and that experience will not change just because you dont want to acknowledge the lack of accurate information about trauma that goes around endo spaces

#thank you #this was very much our experience #there needs to be more trauma education in endo/pro-endo spaces

[kipandkandicore]

Do you seriously support endos... Dude. Your entire blog is about not spreading misinformation, endos spread it the worst. Endos are literally just trans-DID people in a different font. What is wrong with you? You said it yourself "DID/OSDD is a trauma disorder", so why have you reblogged multiple pro-endo things?? What the fuck.

Hello, hi there! I'm going to give you a couple of insights into the "anti-misinformation" label that I have and why your opinion can be harmful to fellow disordered systems

The alter that took care of this blog has fused with another alter, so I'm not gonna hold back with my words

TLDR; NOT EVERYTHING IS BLACK AND WHITE, YOU CLOSE-MINDED GIT

PRO ENDOS (EVEN SOME ENDOS THEMSELVES) CAN BE ANTI-MISINFORMATION

I've seen a lot of pro-endo communities acknowledge that DID/OSDD is a trauma disorder and even include sources and papers about it. Just because they think endogenic plurality is valid doesn't mean they don't advocate anti-misinformation in this already-muddled discourse space. A lot of pro-endos can still acknowledge that their communities can foster fucktons of misinformation about the disorder and the ableism because of it, while also believing in endogenic plurals

2. SYSCOURSE IS NOT ABOUT THE "YOU VS THEM"

This rhetoric of "This side is terrible because I disagree with what they believe in" can be harmful, even to your fellow disordered systems. I have seen anti-endo communities making fun of some endogenic plurals, and it made me insecure because the things that they made fun of are also common symptoms of disordered systems. I have seen some pro-endo communities help educate people about what DID/OSDD is as a trauma disorder, along with the proper papers. This comes from my experience as someone who had bad experiences from both sides

I have a lot more, but I can't word it well enough, and I know some assholes out there would take my words out of context

Am I pro-endo? Anti-endo? Neutral?

I just want the misinformation around my disorder to end, for fuck's sake!

[kipandkandicore]

okay. listen. if you ever find yourself falling into a new ideological circle, pay attention. if you notice that you’re among people who define themselves as part of an “in-group” with a pre-prepared human “enemy” to constantly rail against—if everyone fantasizes about the mental state of these loathsome monsters, if they participate in witch hunts or (perhaps worse) poke bears and court harassment on purpose to comfort each other over—get the fuck out. you haven’t been enlightened to some grand conspiracy, there are no evil “enemies” or “degenerates” trying to rip apart the fabric of society, and you do not have the moral duty to “enlighten” anyone to whatever you think the “truth” is. it’s neither safe nor normal to spend hours of your day fighting with strangers on the internet

a lot of people wear this shit like a badge of honor, but it’s also not normal to hide your “in-group” status as a form of martyrdom, relishing when the “enemy” slips up around you. it’s comforting in the moment, but in the long run, you’re alienating yourself from the world outside of your bubble. the more you alienate yourself, the more vulnerable and lonely you become, and the harder it is to reject the comfort of belonging to the “in-group”

i’m writing this from the perspective of someone who grew up in a cesspool of awful, cult-like rural churches—which is its own situation—but i see similar shit happening in online communities all the time, both within and 800 miles outside of my own ideological principles. yes, every toxicass radfem i block seems to be trapped in a version of this vicious cycle, but i also see it happening in random queer circles and niche fandom communities. no one is immune, not even me. i’ve watched people fall into this shit and never make it out. be careful

[kipandkandicore]

Anyways, since I can talk about her on this blog, and since the anon in my inbox wants me to stfu apparently:

Sophie’s response to the anon was worse than the anon imo.

That isn’t to say the anon wasn’t horrific. That was genuine homicidal wishes from the anon described graphically.

The adult response to that is to, at most, address the falsehoods of what they said in an isolated post, and then report the anon/block the anon for harassment.

Instead, she wanted to write a few paragraphs about how people like this should suffer mentally (a running theme more and more in her posts), how they should be completely isolated from everyone they’ve ever loved, and how she hopes they hurt.

Anyone who supports that behavior needs to get the fuck off my blog.

No, we do not need to engage bigots. Yes, we are allowed to ostracize them by not responding. No, you should not then give them the attention they desire by spreading their vitriol to your ridiculous amount of followers, followers who have already been shown to take your words and run with them. Here’s the scenario I’m seeing in my mind:

Anon now leaves this interaction having gotten the rage they wanted from the user they sent hate to

Anon also knows that the only people who will support them, to avoid the fate Sophie wants for them, are those who agree, helping anon fall further into the mentality they were in. (This has been seen time and time again, from Mormons to TERFs forcing people to remain in the community by showing the reaction others have to them)

Sophie’s Followers now see the message from a person they support, which is “You’re allowed to wish everlasting mental hellscape upon the people who deserve it.” The followers decide that People They Don’t Like are this. (Gee, I wonder where I got that hate anon from this morning that mentioned her name…)

Responding to hatred with more hatred rarely benefits anyone but yourself. Again — the anon was wrong. That was heinous. Nobody is supporting what they said in this current debate.

But two wrongs don’t make a right. And what you said was fucked up, Sophie. Stop downplaying it as “I just am saying to ostracize a bigot!”

You told someone who clearly is fucked up that they deserve to be completely, 100% isolated from every single person, space, and thing that makes them feel safe. And you based it around them being anti-endo in your post. You based it around fucking syscourse.

That’s not saying to ostracize a bigot. That’s wishing harm on someone — actual genuine mental distress, using an abuse tactic my own family used on me to keep me in their clutches for longer.

THAT is why people are pissed off. 👍 Just thought I would clarify.

[kipandkandicore]

It has been established in clinical contexts that dissociated parts as they relate to DID are caused by trauma, however endogenic systems for the most part do not claim their headmates are "dissociated parts". If endogenic systems are to be understood outside the context of DID, then a clinical understanding of DID, no matter how extensive, is not useful to apply to the concept of endogenic systems.

Ultimately, how endogenic systems view themselves comes down to subjective labelling, which is a big part of why endogenic discourse is so useless. You cannot make black-and-white claims about other people's subjective experiences and expect it to go well. Especially not when "endogenic" is such a broad category of experiences.

Also, when what we call "endogenic systems" refers to such a broad category of experiences which includes spiritual experiences tied to certain cultures, to say that these experiences are invalid or undeserving of respect can very quickly stray into very racist territory. Regardless of your own beliefs regarding spirituality, it is best to at least respect other views, especially when they are culturally relevant to an individual. To boil these experiences down to "just DID in denial" is to downplay and minimize the history of these cultures and their beliefs, and to forcefully apply a definition of selfhood that may not be widely used within that culture.

I feel that to view endogenic systems only through the lens of DID is to not only miss the wide variety of experiences that the endogenic label covers (from spirituality to psychological views to anything in-between) but also to unfairly minimize DID down to "just having alters".

If an endogenic system only claims to have a system, with no amnesia, no chronic dissociation, no commonly comorbid mental health issues, no posttraumatic symptoms, no somatic symptoms, etc etc etc, and they are not just not recognizing symptoms or denying symptoms, then that simply is not DID. To say otherwise is to boil DID down to just "alters disorder", which really ignores the complexity of the disorder.

I do believe that there are many systems who start out identifying as endogenic who do discover later on that they are traumagenic and DID (I've been there, my friends have been there, many of the systems I've met have been there), however I also firmly believe that fakeclaiming experiences are never the way to have a system come to terms with being traumagenic DID if that's what they truly are. I needed therapy, a safe space to explore being traumagenic and DID, and friends who didn't really care what I identified as in order to come to terms with it.

With trauma in general, you need safety first in order to begin addressing trauma, and constantly making someone question their own experiences or forcing them to face their trauma before they're ready is never the way to go about this. It is actively dangerous and no good therapist would ever approve of it. You need to do basic groundwork establishing coping skills, support systems, and ways to begin learning how to safely regulate emotions before doing any trauma work, and this is not done in online discourse surrounding system origins.

If a system truly is traumagenic DID, you may be forcing them to come to terms with something they cannot yet handle. If a system truly is endogenic, you've just been an asshole to someone who really did not deserve it. Discourse surrounding the validity of endogenic systems does not really do anyone any good at all.

[kipandkandicore]

Recent discourse reminds me of that cult indoctrination trick that's often used to weed out more difficult marks early on, where they tell you all that you aren't allowed to eat rice on Tuesdays and then if you protest they go "wow SOMEBODY likes rice a little much huh" as if you're the fucking weirdo who cares too much about how much rice is consumed between Monday and Wednesday instead of them.

And this forces you to decide whether your autonomy matters to you more than the approval of the group - while they'll still act like you're on thin ice either way, if you give in at this point they know you're theirs forever, because now they've established a foothold, you've shown a moral weakness, which they will brand you with so it can be used against you in the future ("hey RICE-addict here doesn't want help break into the city records office") to force you to double-down and isolate you further.

And if instead you do decide to push back further, after your abrupt departure from the group ("You're seriously leaving us over RICE?!? Seriously?") and subsequent ostracism, you can then be used as a demonstration to the others who were more pliable, of how the outgroup is full of people like you who are obsessed with violating the No-Tuesday-Rice rule to the point where they'll abandon all their friends, who cared so much for them, so it clearly isn't an arbitrary restriction, you're the kind of monster these rules are intended to protect them from, thus all the other wise and esoteric precepts of the charismatic leader are implied to be equally justified.

[kipandkandicore]

When I say that being a POC is inherently traumatic because racism is inherently traumatic, here are a list of things I don't mean when I say it.

I don't mean that every POC is traumatized by racism in the same way.

I don't mean that the trauma is inherently severe enough to cause a system.

I don't mean that every endogenic system of color is traumagenic. I have never denied the existence of endogenic systems and I have never involved myself in the validity of systems at their core.

I don't mean that racial relations are the same in every country.

Here is a list of things I do mean when I say that statement.

Every POC, regardless of location, experiences racism because colonization is a global crisis. Because every nonwhite culture has been a victim of colonization at some point, every POC has felt the effects of racism, regardless of severity.

Not all instances of racism may feel traumatizing and not all POC may seem traumatized because of the access to the ability to cope and the frequency of racist events. For example, a wealthy POC may be able to cope with racism better than a poor POC because money can allow them to leave the situation easier or to afford to seek justice.

Just because someone is capable of coping with the traumatic nature of racism subconsciously does not mean they are completely unaffected. Just because someone does not frequently or directly experience racism does not mean they never experience racism and are incapable of being hurt by it.

The traumatic nature of racism occasionally, but not always, contributes to the development of some systems, because some systems are formed by trauma.

I hope this clears everything up. If it doesn't, I suggest you go over the following guide before you ask for further clarification.

[kipandkandicore]

Honestly, it's talked about a lot just how rigidly medical many anti-endo spaces are, but I don't think it's talked about nearly enough how pro-endo spaces often fall into the exact same rhetoric. In fact, I have seen many pro-endos who push for even more strict medicalization than anti-endos do with regards to CDDs.

I cannot count the amount of times I have seen a pro-endo system say "I cannot have DID because I did not experience this specific type of severe abuse" or "I cannot have DID because my trauma didn't happen before the age of 9" or "I cannot have DID because I can still function fairly well in my daily life".

By making statements about what kind of trauma needs to happen, or quoting rigid age ranges for DID, or drawing lines in the sand at how disabled you need to be in order for it to count as "disordered enough" to be DID, pro-endos very much frequently fall into the exact same arguing points as anti-endos in order to seperate themselves from DID even if they claim to be against and mock the strict medicalization of DID often seen in anti-endo circles.

Despite claiming all the time that the rules are not as rigid as anti-endos make them out to be, pro-endos still often view DID as something "other" and create similar strict rules and binaries surrounding DID. It's especially prominent in systems who call themselves OSDD, who view OSDD as "less bad DID" and so cling to the OSDD label when their symptoms actually align more with DID. The lines they draw between OSDD and DID very often just show a lack of understanding of what DID's diagnostic criteria actually describes based on their own misconceptions about what DID is, which tends to be very narrow and specific. (Not to say everyone with OSDD is actually DID, of course, but it is a much higher number than people are really comfortable talking about.)

A lot of the time, this is very heavily related to downplaying symptoms as well as misinformation about what DID is. However, when downplaying is related to trauma, it is also a massive issue that the pro-endo community largely does not know what trauma is, either. Similar strict binaries and rules that people make about DID are also applied to the concept of trauma as a whole; especially when trauma has been so discoursified and used as an arguing point to harm endogenic systems, many systems are not comfortable talking about trauma at all.

We see this not only as it relates to dissociative disorders (ex., "Emotional neglect isn't enough to cause DID, you have to have been physically or sexually abused and I wasn't so I cannot have DID") but also as it relates to origins, particularly with things like traumagenic vs. stressgenic. Many pro-endos have very extreme ideas about what counts as trauma, and so do not believe they are traumatized if whatever their idea of "severe abuse" is was not present. Many who were abused in less overt ways or who dealt with trauma that was not related to abuse (ex., chronic stress, major surgeries, or natural disasters) tend to believe they are endogenic and non-disordered because they do not fit the picture of "trauma survivor" they have stereotyped in their head.

A lot of systems also have very narrow ideas of what a trauma response looks like, and believe it only ever looks like classic PTSD symptoms. If they do not have PTSD symptoms such as flashbacks or nightmares, there is a tendency to say "I am not traumatized".

Pro-endo spaces absolutely need to become more comfortable discussing and sharing information on disorder and trauma, because the current lack of knowledge is depressing at best and a barrier to recovery for many systems at worst. I do feel that syscourse has definitely worsened a lot of the pro-endo community's avoidance of discussing trauma and dissociation and the push to seperate experiences into anything except "traumagenic DID", though I do also feel it's related to unchecked trauma responses and internalized ableism as well. There's a lot of nuance and complexities to be found there, and this isn't a problem that can be solved overnight, but I do believe it can get better.

[kipandkandicore]

we love you thoughtforms!

we love you parogenic and willogenic systems!

we love you paros, parotives, and paromancers!

we love you systems who used to use tulpa language but have made the shift away from cultural appropriation!

we love you those in the pro endo community who are taking concerns of asian buddhists seriously!

we love you systems who are questioning their internalized biases and are trying to unlearn racism!

we love you systems who are advocates for change within tulpa and pro endo communities!

we love you systems who center and uplift voices of poc buddhist systems in their discussions of tulpa language!

we love you systems who are committed to positive change!

we love you systems who are pro tulpamancy as a practice and anti tulpa language and terminology!

we love you systems who are committed to calling out racism in their own spaces and communities!

we love you every system who is trying to improve themselves and their spaces for the better, even when it’s hard and especially when it’s not a popular choice in their communities!!!

#pro endo #tulpa #tulpamancy #pro tulpa #anti tulpa terminology #plurality #pluralgang

[kipandkandicore]

changing tulpa terminology: what would it look like?

we’ve seen some fearmongering stating that the goal of changing tulpa terminology is to divide the tulpa community from the endo community, to discredit tulpamancers and current research, and to make previous guides unusable. it sounds like some people are trying to frame this discussion as a group of anti endos attempting to tear apart the tulpa community. these are nasty rumors that are just untrue! we’d like to talk about how this transition away from culturally appropriative language could occur.

step one: acknowledge something’s wrong

the tulpa community needs to come together to address the racism in their spaces. we have seen folks on r/tulpas and in other spaces speak out on the cultural appropriation of their terminology, but they tend to get dogpiled and drowned out by folks who aren’t interested in listening and changing for the better. our own post we made was removed very shortly after submitting it! it’s imperative that the community learns how to center marginalized voices when discussing issues that directly affect them, while unlearning racial stigmas and biases along the way.

step two: find a new term

once it’s well understood that racism should not be tolerated, the community could choose a term that can best represent their experiences that isn’t rooted in the fetishization of central asian religion and culture. we’ve heard of parogenic, thoughtform, and willogenic as all potential new labels! our wife (who used to identify as a tulpamancy system) switched to willogenic for a while, but lately they’ve been vibing with “paro” as a replacement for tulpa and “paromancy” as a replacement for tulpamancy.

step three: updating resources and guides

this would involve changing website titles and communities, like “thoughtform.io” or “r/paros.”

when it comes to the wealth of resources and guides available, not every guide will need to be completely rewritten! it should be enough for folks to add disclaimers to the top of their works. something like “it has come to our attention that tulpamancy terminology is actually cultural appropriation. the author(s) of this work are switching to parogenic language in their every day lives.”

of course, if people want to completely rewrite their guides, they’re welcome to do so!! when this point is reached, we’d happily put our english degree and paper-editing experience to work by offering to rewrite guides for those who are interested in changing their language. it would be amazing if other plural writers could come together to help the community make this shift while maintaining current resources out there!

step four: reaching out to researchers

after the shift has been mostly achieved online, it’ll be time to contact research professionals. it could start with getting in touch with the authors and institutions that have already published tulpamancy research, explaining the community shift away from that language, and asking the authors of the works to include disclaimers about the terminology they used.

additionally, it could involve reaching out to those who are currently working on or completing tulpamancy research, and ask them to adjust their language use before their research is published.

language changes, and researchers should not only understand this but be more than willing to adjust the language that their research uses in order to better reflect the concerns of religious and racial minorities. this has happened in the past with slurs and terms like “transsexual,” which are now not used by researchers who study these phenomenon.

(note - we’re not comparing tulpa terminology to slurs here. we’re making the point that researchers have to change or adjust their language all the time, and this is no exception.)

step five: reaching out to the public

if anything, changing the terminology will improve public perception of plurality without trauma. to outsiders, it may seem like the community is coming together to deal with a racism issue that’s persisted for decades (which is true!).

people can reach out to reporters, write medium articles, and talk about this shift in language to people they care about in their own lives and in online spaces. if the community believes that change is possible, then it only becomes a matter of taking steps to achieve it.

we know that this shift will take quite some time to pull off, but the more people who get involved, the faster the change can happen! if you want to start small, you can start by daring to call out racism and cultural appropriation within your own community when you see it. even baby steps in the right direction count as progress!

we are not an expert on linguistics, and while we’ve existed in the tulpa community for over a year, we haven’t exactly been an active member. but these are our thoughts on how this language shift could occur. we’d be happy to discuss this more or answer any questions to the best of our ability!

and for those who haven’t seen it, please check out our document compiling asian/tibetan buddhist voices and their thoughts on tulpa language.

#syscourse #tulpamancy #tulpa #pro tulpa #anti tulpa terminology #pro endo #long post