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grim-on-the-darkside · 2 years

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Firstly, let me just start out by saying you have the right to your opinion, even though I don’t share it. That being said...

I have to be honest here, I personally, and this is just my opinion, scarcely consider people who try and warp Lucas’s vision into something that should resonate 1 for 1 to the real world, ‘Star Wars fans.’

If you want realism, if you want ‘grey’ revisionism, if you want ‘realistic’, DON’T watch Star Wars. Don’t say “It doesn’t make sense.” - We’re talking about ‘space magic’. It already doesn’t make sense. It’s fantasy.

It may include messages that are designed to make people think and have correlation to real life events and inherent human emotions and circumstances, but it isn’t representation of real life. Lucas’s message is about fundemental undertones of humanity on the most simplistic level. - Fear, Anger, Love, Hate, Compassion, Greed, Selflessness, Selfishness, Good and Evil, Fairness and Hope.

"The Force has two sides - [Light and Dark]. It is not an inherently malevolent or a benevolent thing. It has a bad side to it, involving hate and fear, and it has a good side, involving love, charity, fairness and hope."

~ George Lucas, Time Magazine, 1980

I have been a hardcore Star Wars fan my entire life, and I would put my ‘Star Wars credentials’ up against anyone elses, what people like you [Jedi-Haters] do is pervert Lucas’s message. It’s not suppose to be like real life. It’s a mythical story. It’s a fairy tale. It is an idealized version of things. Star Wars is about absolutes. It’s about Right and Wrong, Good and Evil, Tyranny and Justice, Fascism and Democracy, Black and White, Dark and Light....and not a shred of ‘Grey’ in between.

George Lucas doesn’t share your view of Star Wars. You are misappropriating his vision and than trying to make it out like people who don’t share your anti-Jedi views are the ones misinterpreting Lucas’s message.

Lucas doesn’t see the Jedi the way you do. He doesn’t see them as ‘wrong’, he doesn’t see them as ‘having lost their way’. He doesn’t see them as ‘detached’ or without emotion. He sees them as the most moral people in the Galaxy. He sees them as The Good Guys. He doesn’t see their views on the Force as wrong. He says the Jedi are right.

Quite honestly, Star Wars would cease to be as beautiful as it is if it was based and your view of the Jedi and other’s who share your views. - There is NO GREY in Star Wars. Only Dark and Light. Only Good and Evil. There is no middle ground between them. - No one in real life has the Force. There is not Force in the real world. In the Star Wars universe, The Force is God. It doesn’t play by the same rules as real life. It’s idealized vision built on the simplicity of human emotion and base core values.

I’m sorry to have to say this, and say this with no malice or intended insult, but you don’t get Star Wars.

In real life, Priests, Nuns, and Monks, they take vows. They don’t get married, they don’t have children. They live a monastic lifestyle, just like the Jedi do.

"[The Jedi] is the monk idea. Whether you go to the Christian monks and the Knights Templar, or you go to the Buddhist monks and the kung fu monks, you get the warrior monk."

~ George Lucas

The only difference is that if Priests, Nuns, and Monks didn’t take those vows and live that way, no danger would result from it. But in Star Wars Land with regard to Force Users that is a very real threat. Because there is nothing more dangerous in the Star Wars universe than a Darksider. Having attachments is dangerous for a Force user. Because you will do anything you have to to keep them safe, even if you have to do bad things. The Darkside corrupts. It isn’t a choice. It changes you.

“If he'd [Anakin] have been taken in his first year and started to study to be a Jedi, he wouldn't have this particular connection as strong as it is and he'd have been trained to love people but not to become attached to them. But he has become attached to his mother and he will become attached to Padme and these things are, for a Jedi, who needs to have a clear mind and not be influenced by threats to their attachments, a dangerous situation.”

~ George Lucas

“In mythology, if you go to Hades to get them back you’re not doing it for them, you’re doing it for yourself. You’re doing it because you don’t want to give them up. You’re afraid to be without them. The key to the dark side is fear. You must be clean of fear, and fear of loss is the greatest fear. If you’re set up for fear of loss, you will do anything to keep that loss from happening, and you’re going to end up in the dark side. That’s the basic premise of Star Wars and the Jedi, and how it works. That’s why they’re taken at a young age to be trained. They cannot get themselves killed trying to save their best buddy when it’s a hopeless exercise."

~ George Lucas

You are right, they are taken at a young age. And that is to avoid them becoming attached to family. Which is a dangerous situation for a FORCE USER. They are not like normal people. No one in real life can use the Force, so making comparisons to real life is an inherently flawed argument.

They are not kidnapped, they are not forced, they can say no. The parents permission is always asked and gained and the child themself is asked if they want to become a Jedi. Go watch The Phantom Menace. Shmi and Anakin are both asked and give consent. Shmi let’s Anakin decide if he wants to go and be a Jedi or not.

.............

Attachments are dangerous for Force Users in George Lucas’s vision of Star Wars. That is an objective fact in Star Wars, and It’s that way because George Lucas said it’s that way. You can’t on one hand call yourself a Star Wars fan and than on the other hand say George Lucas is wrong about Star Wars, and it doesn’t matter what he says. It’s his story. You either like it or you don’t. Either choice is fine, but if you don’t like that objective fact about Star Wars, and about the Jedi and the Force, than you aren’t a Star Wars fan. Fans don’t hate the things they are fans of.

"He turns into Darth Vader because he gets attached to things. He can't let go of his mother, he can't let go of his girlfriend. He can't let go of things. It makes him greedy. And when you are greedy, you are on the path to the Darkside, because you fear you're going to lose things, that you're not going to have the power you need."

~ George Lucas, Time Magazine, 2002

"[Jedi Knights] do not grow attachments, because attachment is a path to the dark side. You can love people, but you can’t want to possess them. They’re not yours. Accept that they have a fate. Even those you love most are going to die. You can’t do anything about that. Protect them with your lightsaber, but if they die they were going to die, there’s nothing you can do. All you can do is accept that fact.”

~ George Lucas

"..What happens when you go to the dark side is it goes out of balance and you get really selfish and you forget about everybody ... because when you get selfish you get stuff, or you want stuff, and when you want stuff and you get stuff then you are afraid somebody is going to take it away from you ... once you become afraid that somebody's going to take it away from you or you're gonna lose it, then you start to become angry, especially if you're losing it, and that anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering."

~ George Lucas, 2010 video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiImoO5QkcA - [50 second mark]

"The Darkside is always there, it is experienced daily by people. It's like a huge cancer, alive, festering -both a reminder of the moral state and, at the same time symptom and symbol of a very sick society"

~ George Lucas, "The Mythology of Star Wars", Joseph Campell and the Power of Myth DVD, 2001

........................

The Force doesn’t care why you use it, it doesn’t want to be used in certain ways for any reason what so ever. Even if it was morally understandable to use the Force for attack because you were trying to protect someone a Force user loves, it’s still not okay. The Force doesn’t want to be used to kill people, it doesn’t want to be used to get a person something they want or to keep it. That is inherently selfish in Star Wars Land, because the Force is about life, all life, not just an individual.

Lucas asked about his interest in 'Good and Evil' motiff.

"The universal question, Am I a good person. The Difference is about a compassionate person as opposed to a person consumed with self-interest, or a selfish person. When you become greedy you do bad things to get stuff from other people. Once you get that stuff you become afraid.Once you become afraid that someone is going to take it from you than you start striking out at people. You get angry at things and you get worried and that puts you into a psychological mindset that turns you ultimately into an evil person, where you are doing horrible things to people, thinking that you're doing the right thing, but your doing it because you are afraid they are going to hurt you before you hurt them.

'The Force is just an amalgam [symbolism] of religions and their basic teachings. Killing people in the name of God is wrong, there's just no question about it. That's absolutely opposite of what al God and Shamanism and everyone has taught us. God is Love, not God is hate."

~ George Lucas Special Interview with Bill Bradley,American Voices, 2012

"The Force is life."

~ George Lucas Interview with Melody Hopson [Lucas's wife], 2021

"The Jedi won't lead droids. Their whole basis is connecting with the life force. They'd just say, 'That's not the way we operate. We don't function with nonlife-forms." So if there is to be a Republic army, it would have to be an army of humans.”

~ George Lucas Interview form Star Wars Archives 1999-2005 by Paul Duncan, 2020

...

The Jedi are selfless, they give up their own pleasures so they can focus solely on others.

George Lucas on the bottom line of Star Wars.

"The secret, ulitmately, which is the bottom line in Star Wars [ANH] and the other movies is there are two kinds of people in the world, compassionate people and selfish people. The selfish people live on the Darkside. The compassionate people live on the Lightside.

"If you go to the side of the Light you will be happy because of compassion, helping other people, not thinking about yourself, thinking about others, that gives you a joy that you can't get any other way.

Being selfish, following your pleasures, always entertaining yourself with pleasure, and buying stuff and doing stuff, you're always going to be unhappy. You'll never get to the point. You'll get this little shot of pleasure but it goes away and than you're stuck where you were before and the more you do it, the worse it gets. You finally get everything you want and you're miserable because there's nothing at the end of that road.

Whereas if you are compassionate and you get to the end of the road you've helped so many people."

https://youtu.be/RElw0dhBsOI

In Star Wars The Jedi are the good guys, the Sith are the bad guys.The Sith [Darksiders] are selfish and Greedy. The Jedi [Lightsiders] are selfless and compassionate.

"People have a tendency to confuse it — everybody has the Force. Everybody. You have the good side and you have the bad side. And as Yoda says, if you choose the bad side, it’s easy because you don’t have to do anything. Maybe kill a few people, cheat, lie, steal. Lord it over everybody. But the good side is hard because you have to be compassionate. You have to give of yourself. Whereas the dark side is selfish."

~ George Lucas, 2019

https://naboonews.wordpress.com/2019/05/25/george-lucas-says-there-has-never-been-any-war-between-the-jedi-and-the-sith-in-his-canon/

..........

"The key part of this scene is Anakin saying, 'I'm not going to let this happen again.' We're cementing his determination to become the most powerful Jedi, and the only way you can really do that is to go to the Dark side because the Dark side is more powerful. *If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side, which is the Dark side, but ultimately it'll be your undoing. But it's that need for power and that need for power in order to satisfy your greed to keep things and to not let go of things and allow the natural course of life to go on -- which is that things come and go -- and to be able to accept the change around you and not want to keep moments frozen forever in time." ~ George Lucas, AotC DVD commentary track [during Shmi's funeral]

An excerpt from StarWars.com‘s oral history of Star Wars: Episode I – The Phantom Menace:

“The thing about Anakin is, Anakin started out as a nice kid. He was kind, and sweet, and lovely, and he was then trained as a Jedi. But the Jedi can’t be selfish. They can love but they can’t love people to the point of possession. You can’t really possess somebody, because people are free. It’s possession that causes a lot of trouble, and that causes people to kill people, and causes people to be bad. Ultimately it has to do with being unwilling to give things up.

The whole basis here is if you’re selfish, if you’re a Sith Lord, you’re greedy. You’re constantly trying to get something. And you’re constantly in fear of not getting it, or, when you get it, you’re in constant fear of losing it. And it’s that fear that takes you to the dark side. It’s that fear of losing what you have or want.”

~ George Lucas

Sometimes it’s ambition, but sometimes, like in the case of Anakin, it was fear of losing his wife. He knew she was going to die. He didn’t quite know how, so he was able to make a pact with a devil that if he could learn how to keep people from dying, he would help the Emperor. And he became a Sith Lord. Once he started saying, “Well, we could take over the galaxy, I could take over from the Emperor, I could have ultimate power,” Padmé saw right through him immediately. She said, “You’re not the person I married. You’re a greedy person.” So that’s ultimately how he fell and he went to the dark side."

~ George Lucas

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George Lucas on Prequel Jedi: "They are the most moral of anybody in the galaxy."

“They are the most moral of anybody in the galaxy. They're monks. The Sith practice the dark side and are way of of balance. They Jedi aren't as much out of balance because they're the light side of the Force. They still have the bad side of the Force in them, but they keep it in check. It's always there, so it can always erupt if you let your guard down. The Emperor snookered the Jedi with Order 66. The nascent Rebellion and the Jedi didn't move fast enough.”

~ George Lucas

The Jedi weren’t ‘flawed’. They hadn’t lost their way. They didn’t fall from the Light. They didn’t fail. They were beaten by 1000 year long Sith plan to take revenge against the Jedi for having removed them from power long ago.

“Sith rely on their passion to get things done. They use their raw emotion, their hatred, their anger, their bitterness - which is the dark side of the Force. The Force is what binds the galaxy together, and it has a good side and a bad side.

The Sith learned how to manipulate both sides of the Force, and then they fell into the trap of being corrupted by the dark side. -

The Jedi Knights are like marshals in the Wild West. It's their job to make sure everyone is protected, to bring peace. They are the enemy of the Sith, because the Sith want to dominate the galaxy, to control everything, and for a thousand years they have had a plot against the Jedi.

So, in this movie, it is time for them to seek revenge against the Jedi for perceived injustices and to carry out that plot. "

~ George Lucas, Sci-Fi Online interview, 2005

https://ibb.co/RHxzy49

The Jedi not being able to sense that Palpatine was the Sith Lord they were looking for was not because they had fallen from grace of from the light, it was because the Darkside clouded their vision.

"It's not that they can't see the Dark Side coming, it's just that the Dark Side begins to envelop everything.It's like walking into a fog. The Jedi's ability to see lessens as the Dark Side grows."

~ George Lucas, 2005

"The film is ultimately about the dark side and the light side, and those sides are designed around compassion and greed. The issue of greed, of getting things and owning things and having things and not being able to let go of things, is the opposite of compassion - of not thinking of yourself all the time. These are the two sides - the good force and the bad force. They're the simplest parts of a complex cosmic construction."

~ George Lucas, Time interview (Bill Moyers) 03/05/99

"Jedi don't marry. They take vows."

~ George Lucas

John Stewart - ‘Was there any reason why they [The Jedi] couldn't get married? Was that the emotion of it, or the idea that they loved something?’

“The whole idea of the movie, ultimately is that you have the Light Side and the Dark Side. The Light Side is compassion, which means you care about other people. The Dark Side is you care only about yourself. Getting your pleasures and getting all your stuff. The other one, you give it to everybody. You give goodness and health to everybody else.

So the issue of love, there's a line between loving somebody compassionately and caring about them and helping them. But the other line is not to be greedy or once you are greedy then you get fearful. You don't want to lose what it is that you have that you are getting. So you have to learn to give up everything.

And ultimately for a Jedi Knight, it's very easy to give up. One of the things they give up is marriage. They can still love people. But they can't possess them."

~ George Lucas, Celebration V, Main Event, 2010

https://ibb.co/M6YfzRc

This whole ‘Jedi are bad’ shtick borne on internet message boards is truly sickening and not at all in keeping with Lucas’s Vision. It’s just like the equally ridiculous ‘Grey Jedi’ movement, having no basis whatsoever with Lucas’s canon. Both are fan fic creations at their worst.

It’s fine not to like Star Wars. But it’s not okay to lie about Lucas’s Vision and his canon. That’s a great way to piss off real Star Wars fans.

You can do whatever you want in your own fan-fiction and RPG groups, you can have Jedi getting married, having children, being greedy and selfish, using both sides of the Force with impunity, but don’t try and pass that stuff off as Lucas’s Star Wars because it’s not.

That said, May the Force be with you, always.

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grim-on-the-darkside · 2 years

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The Force works in mysterious ways...

Yoda - Through the Force, things you will see....other places. The Future, the past...old friends long gone.

Luke - Han...Leia...

Yoda - Control, control, you must learn control.

Luke - I saw a city in the clouds...

Yoda - Hmmm....friends you have there.

Luke - They were in pain.

Yoda - It is the future you see.

“Are you my real father?” hit like a truck because Leia Organa is tremendously powerful in the Force, some part of her remembers her mother, just vaguely, but she does. “She was beautiful, kind, but sad,” Leia says in Return of the Jedi. She remembers that day on Polis Massa in some way, just brief, fleeting memories, but she does.

“Sometimes when I look at Luma, I see her mother’s face. We all miss her very much.“ rings with so much truth in the Force that Leia, with her ability to see into people, to know when they’re lying, to read them like an open book, knows that’s true. Somehow, he knew her mother. From there, it’s not a big leap to, “Are you my real father?”, it’s a reasonable conclusion, if the wrong one. But some part of her feels it, too. Because some part of her must remember him as well, Obi-Wan was there that day, even if she may not knowingly recognize him.

If Leia remembers her mother, she likely remembers Obi-Wan, too.

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grim-on-the-darkside · 2 years

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The Jedi Order and the Galactic Republic

Protectors of the Galactic Symbiosis

In The Phantom Menace, Qui-Gon Jinn defines symbiosis as "life forms living together for mutual advantage." As George Lucas tells us, "we're all part of a symbiotic relationship, meaning, that we all help each other" and "we have to all be one in order to go forward." One of the key themes of Star Wars that we should notice, he says, is that "everything is interconnected" and just like Obi-Wan Kenobi insists, "what happens to one of you will affect the other." For this, we all need to help each other, so we can keep our world in balance.

As Lucas explains, this is exactly what the Galactic Republic, the galaxy-wide democracy is: a "symbiotic relationship," a "symbiotic circle" of 100 000 star systems. "I wanted to emphasize the point that the Republic was a democracy” Lucas tells us, and the Queens, Kings, Doges, Duchesses “are all elected officials” and their titles are “a designation of a ruler, like president.” During the thousand years while Republic was functioning, the galaxy, the whole ecosystem, which is life itself - the living Force, both light and dark - was in "balance."

The Jedi Knights are guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy; their job is "to convince both sides to resolve their differences and not to go to war" and who "try to convince people to get along." Thus, they are the guardians of symbiosis, shepherding the universe so they can all be one. And as a direct result, the allegiance of the Jedi Order is naturally to the Republic, to democracy and the Galactic Senate. The Jedi Order did not serve the Senate because of a political affinity of some kind, but because the unity of the galaxy in one gigantic democracy is the universal symbiosis realized, it is a galaxy governed by the principles of peace, freedom and justice, with the Jedi guarding these values. The Galactic Republic "prospered and grew under the wise rule of the Senate and the protection of the venerable Jedi Knights."

How much influence the Republic had over the Jedi?

It must be noted that the concept of the Jedi Order cannot be taken out of its mythological and fairy tale context. Although the Jedi Knights "serve the Senate," for it's the symbiotic group, through which the people of all the planets are existing in a larger symbiotic relationship, and for this, a Jedi's allegiance is "to the Republic, to democracy," the Jedi Order is a separate, independent power and authority next to the Galactic Senate and the Supreme Chancellor.

In George Lucas' myth, the Jedi Knights are the "gods," the "most moral of anybody in the galaxy," guarding peace and justice in the universe, watching over symbiosis, which is live in balance, having "the moral authority" to "keep the governments of all the planets in line, so that they don't do terrible things" and they're the "peacekeepers of the human world." They're "warrior-monks who keep peace in the universe without resorting to violence" have got the power "to send the whole force of the Republic, which is 100 000 systems, so if you don't behave they can bring you up in front of the Senate. They'll cut you off at the knees, politically."

As it was shown in the Star Wars Saga and the Clone Wars, the Jedi Council "will act as they deem necessary" even when they received direct requests from the Galactic Senate or the Chancellor, and has the power to refuse them, and even assign Senators to missions. "Republic business" and "internal Jedi business" were entirely separate from each other. The Jedi Order has an internal, tradition-based jurisdiction, independent and sealed from the courts of the Galactic Republic. While they're part of the Jedi Order, a Jedi Knight cannot be put on trial at the Republic's courts. The Council has the power to assign Knights to missions without requesting the consent of the Senate or the Chancellor, and the Chancellor did not interfere in Jedi affairs, nor the Jedi had to report to him. Obi-Wan reminds Anakin, "our allegiance is to the Senate, not to its leader."

Failing symbiosis and Jedi generals

As George Lucas explains, in Episode I, II and III, "the Senators have fallen out of the symbiotic circle" and the "symbiotic relationship had torn apart" because "they couldn't agree on anything because their interests became so divergent, so they couldn't get anything done as a Republic." Despite the laws of the Galactic Republic are prohibiting slavery in the entire galaxy, as Darth Sidious explains, "The Republic is not what it once was. The senate is full of greedy squabbling delegates There is no interest in the common good." The Jedi become unable to uphold peace in justice: just like Padmé Amidala expressed, "the Republic no longer functions" - in an uncaring galaxy, blindspots were formed, crime lords and slavers built their dominions on worlds like Tatooine. "The Republic doesn't exist out here", as Shmi said. All the Jedi could do is to hope for things to change for the better, that the Republic can be saved, that the balance of the Force, a symbiotic galaxy can be restored.

In Episode II, "Darth Sidious/Palpatine creates a war. It's all manufactured It's not real." The war "represents a failure to listen" and the Senate grants "emergency powers" to him, and with this "radical amendment" the Senate practically shuts down democracy to ensure its survival. Effectively a dictator, Palpatine commanded the usage of the clone army. "He enlisted the Jedi Knights as generals to command the Clone Army." The very existence of the clone army was unethical and amoral - war itself is -, causing further wounds on the principles that served as the foundations of the Republic. The Jedi Knights had to choose: "Are they going to stick with their moral rules and all be killed, which makes it irrelevant, or do they help save the Republic? They have good intentions, but they have been manipulated which was their downfall." Lucas explains, "The Jedi valiantly accepted their assignment, though never having served as military commanders, they were unaccustomed to the wages of war." He adds: "they’re now used as generals and they’re fighting in a war, and they’re doing something that they really weren’t meant to do. They’re being corrupted by this war, by being forced to be generals instead of peacemakers.”

As Lucas wrote, "As dedicated as the Separatists were in their resolve to create a new order to replace the failing Republic, the Jedi were equally determined to preserve the Republic and defeat the Sith, who they understood all too well were the masterminds of the Separatist movement. They still believed in the Republic, still deemed it a Republic worth saving."

"The Jedi rebellion"

However, as the Clone Wars rage on, the Senate votes more and more executive powers to the Chancellor, who gains control "over the Senate and the courts" and wants to interfere into Jedi affairs. Padmé and other Senators cannot help but wonder, "what if the democracy we thought we were serving no longer exists." The Jedi Order realized: the Galactic Republic is in grave danger. It's no longer a democracy, and the Chancellor uses his powers to gain more and more, and they suspect, he won't return them to the Senate when the war ends, but keep it and turns the Republic into something else.

They sense, "the dark side of the Force [designed around greed] surrounds the Chancellor" and they realize, "if he does not give up his emergency powers (...) then he should be removed from office." Under this scenario "the Jedi Council would have to take control of the Senate, in order to secure a peaceful transition." However, as Lucas says, "the nascent Rebellion and the Jedi didn't move fast enough." Palpatine is revealed to be a Sith Lord, and as Lucas says, the Sith "want to dominate the galaxy, to control everything."

Just like Lucas says, democracy dies "with cheers." The Senate is ready to "give away" democracy to "the Devil" and they celebrate him when he proclaims himself to their Emperor, ordering the army to slaughter "the gods." Padmé announces: "So this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause." It would be important to notice that despite the scenes elaborating the political reality were deleted from Episode III, it is clear that the Galactic Empire did not have a name yet, but the Republic was no more. The "Jedi rebellion" was an attempt to take down the tyrant who used the pretence of democracy to destroy symbiosis, to destroy balance and to finish the creation of his Empire. Although Palpatine laments, the Jedi has no trust in the Senate, the Republic or democracy, one must realize that Sidious's reasoning is that democratic principles should allow and legitimize their own destruction and condone dictatorship. This logic resulted the fall of the Roman Republic, the French First Republic and the Weimar Republic in our real world. "Democratic vote against democracy" does not exist: that's called coup.

In conclusion

For decades, popular belief held that the political aspect of George Lucas' second trilogy is tedious - however, it's surprisingly clear, despite it still remains mythological, philosophical and PG13. As George Lucas tells us, "we're all part of a symbiotic relationship, meaning, that we all help each other" and "we have to all be one in order to go forward." In order to do that, we shall work just like one huge democracy, realizing this symbiotic circle, so the Force, made up of the life of all living things, is in balance, interconnectedness is is recognized and respected. This is the state of being that is under the guidance and protection who are "regular people like the rest of us," but ones who dedicate their lives to "make sure everyone is protected, to bring peace." Their role in the democratic government is a mythological one that cannot be compared to real world branches of power, since it is the pillar of morality, constituted by of "the gods," who are sage monks, also happened to be very good warriors, serving as "ultimate father figures" and "intergalactic therapists". And "if you don't work in the ecosystem that you're in, then when you pull yourself out, it collapses. And if you keep doing selfish things, pretty soon, the whole thing will collapse as well." And this leads to the birth of a world ruled by "the Devil," who, and all his minions actually "are people who are very self-centered and selfish.

The intended end of the Saga, the end of the Third Trilogy is, as George Lucas planned and intended, is that the Republic and the Jedi Order is restored.

Sources

(Please note: I used no Disney or Legends Star Wars materials, (save for the one Shatterpoint foreword) since I only interested in George Lucas' Canon)

Star Wars Saga and Star Wars: The Clone Wars

Star Wars Archives 1977-1983

Star Wars Archives 1999-2005

Star Wars: The Phantom Menace "Prime of the Jedi" featurette

George Lucas' foreword for Shatterpoint by Matthew Stower

Interviews with George Lucas 1 2 3 4 5

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grim-on-the-darkside · 2 years

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Balance in the Force is often misunderstood, but at this point, there is enough out there about from authoritative sources that there really shouldn’t be any confusion on it anymore. People who assumed that Balance had to do with some ratio of Dark to Light aren’t interested in being corrected, they just want to hold on to their ‘Grey Jedi’ fan fic crap and don’t have much respect for George Lucas’s vision.

From George Lucas to Dave Filoni, from Pablo Hidalgo to Bryan Young, there’s no confusion on what Balance in the Force means.

People using the Darkside of the Force is what causes imbalance in the Force.

Not the Darkside itself, you can’t destroy the Darkside as that’s a part of the Living Force and is about what’s in the hearts of man. But, you can destroy Darksiders. They are all evil, and they seek to get around what the Cosmic Force has created and set ‘the rules of the Universe’.

Using the Force for oneself, for power, for Glory, for personal wants, using it for selfish reasons [people aren’t suppose to live forever, that goes against the natural order of things.], using it for one’s self and wants creates evil in the Star Wars Universe and causes imbalance. Evil causes imbalance in the Force.

Balance in one’s self, and Balance in the Force are not the same thing. WE all have competing emotions, and emotions are fine, everyone is a little selfish, but you’re not suppose to just give into it, your suppose to fight it. We all have the Darkside within us, we are all capable of doing wrong is we let our emotions get the best of us.

Force users aren’t like regular people and they can’t get away with the same things as non force users might, being in touch with the Force effects everything that’s living, and thus they way people can use the Force can effect everything that’s living in some way. The Force connects all living things.

Non - Force users can certainly be evil, but, they can’t effect things thru the Force. There is nothing more dangerous in the Star Wars universe than a Darksider. They are selfish, they are power hungry, they only care about themselves, and they will hurt, kill, enslave, anyone and anything that stands in the way of their wants.They are evil. - It isn’t a choice. The Darkside corrupts all that use it. It changes the person, they aren’t who they use to be, and that is probable why Darksiders change their names when they fall.

The Star Wars universe is not like real life. You can’t say ‘Balance not including evil or selfishness doesn’t make sense’. We’re talking about ‘space magic’, it already doesn’t make sense. =p If you want ‘realistic’ don’t watch Star Wars. I don’t want realism in my fantasy, thank you very much! =]

The Sith don’t cause imbalance because they are Sith, they cause imbalance because they use the Darkside of the Force.

In the original trilogy the Force was out of balance the whole time until the end of Return of the Jedi and you had 2 Jedi and 2 Sith and the Force was not in balance.

At the end of Return of the Jedi, Vader went back to the Lightside and killed Palpatine. There were no more Darksiders left, only Lightsiders and the Force was in balance.

Here’s what George Lucas and Dave Filoni have to say on the matter. [I’m not all that interested in Disney Star Wars, but, they are not suppose to change anything Lucas said or did, so I’m talking real Star Wars here [The 6 Films and The Clone Wars series, which were the only things George Lucas considered canon and set the canon to.]

"While Lucasfilm always strived to keep the stories created for the EU consistent with our film and television content as well as internally consistent, Lucas always made it clear that he was not beholden to the EU. He set the films he created as the canon. This includes the six Star Wars episodes, and the many hours of content he developed and produced in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. These stories are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align."

~ Lucasfilm, 2014https://www.starwars.com/news/the-legendary-star-wars-expanded-universe-turns-a-new-page

PAUL DUNCAN: And they have the moral authority to do that?

GEORGE LUCAS: Yeah. They are the most moral of anybody in the galaxy. They're monks. The Sith practice the dark side and are way of of balance. They Jedi aren't as much out of balance because they're the light side of the Force. They still have the bad side of the Force in them, but they keep it in check. It's always there, so it can always erupt if you let your guard down. The Emperor snookered the Jedi with Order 66. The nascent Rebellion and the Jedi didn't move fast enough.

GEORGE LUCAS: The Jedi won't lead droids. Their whole basis is connecting with the life force. They'd just say, 'That's not the way we operate. We don't function with nonlife-forms." So if there is to be a Republic army, it would have to be an army of humans. ~ George Lucas Interview form Star Wars Archives 1999-2005 by Paul Duncan, 2020

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Darksiders are selfish and greedy, The Jedi are selfless and compassionate.

"As evil begins to take over, it pushes the Force out of balance. It's easier to succumb to evil than it is to be a hero and try to work things through on the good side. Evil is inherently more powerful—it doesn't have the burden of worrying about other people. What Luke sees in Darth Vader at the end of ROTJ is something that I thought was worth understanding: the idea that Darth actually was a very good person. Except he's slightly more powerful than other people and when you get into that situation, your ability to do evil is much easier to come by."

"I think it is obvious that [Qui-Gon] was wrong in Episode I and made a dangerous decision, but ultimately this decision may be correct. The “Phantom Menace” refers to the force of the dark side of the universe. Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader—also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction and Qui-Gon are correct—Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrifice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor.

~ George Lucas, Cut Magazine, 1999

"The core of the Force....you've got the Lightside and the Darkside, one is selfless, one is selfish, and you want to keep them in balance. What happens when you go to the Darkside, It goes out of balance."

~ George Lucas, 2010 video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiImoO5QkcA - [50 second mark]

"Which brings us to films 4, 5 and 6, where Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe."

~ George Lucas 2005

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The Sith were the only Darksiders around at that time.

If it was just the Sith that caused inbalance and not Darksiders persay, The Jedi in the Prequel Era [prior to discovering that Maul was indeed a Sith] would have known that the Sith never went extinct, and yet in the Prequels we know the Jedi believed that the Sith had been extinct for a 1000 years.

“The Sith are extinct, they have been for nearly a millennium”

~ Ki-Adi-Mundi

“The thing that she says at the very end [Padme] that 'there's still good in him',as Luke says later on in Return of the Jedi, that 'there's still good in you', that's recurring, because there is and that's the one thing that will bring balance back to the Force, that little ounce of good in him, and it's his son that makes him realize that he made the wrong decision [ROTS], that the time for rationalization is over, and he needs to do the right thing which is to get rid of the Sith and bring Balance back to the Force."

~ George Lucas Balance: Episode III - Philosophy Of George Lucas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EFzrsf_Xnw

In the Mortis Arc we see ‘Balance’ lost when the son goes fully to the Darkside [he’s only darkside leaning at first, it’s why the Father says to the Son “I forbade you from using the Darkside”.]

Dave Filoni has stated that the Father, Son, and the Daughter are not manifestations of the force or avatars, they are beings. Also, the arc is symbolic. The Father, the Son, and the Daughter all die, but the Force still exists after they are gone.

https://www.starwars.com/video/altar-of-mortis-episode-featurette

As Filoni describes it: “You have to think of this as the three entire episodes taking placing in the tree when Luke was on Dagobah.” In fact, the whole thing is a metaphor. Everything in the story is symbolic of “everything that takes place in all six Star Wars films.” And so, I truly believe it stands as George Lucas's goodbye story. "

.....

I believe The arc symbolizes Anakin Skywalker’s life and destiny/

The Daughter says when she meets Anakin - "We are the beginning the middle and the end."

The Daughter represents his starting as a Lightsider.

The Son Represents the progression of his fall to the Darkside.

The Father symbolizes his end as a Father himself, giving his life for his Son. He becomes Luke Skywalker’s Father with his sacrifice.

Lucas has stated that Darth Vader means ‘Dark Father’ in German.

................................................................................................................

‘How did you get the name Darth Vader?’

“Darth” is a variation of dark. And “Vader” is a variation of father. So it’s basically Dark Father. All the names have history, but sometimes I make mistakes – Luke was originally going to be called Luke Starkiller, but then I realized that wan’t appropriate for the character. It was appropriate for Anakin, but not his son. I said, ��Wait, we can’t weigh this down too much – he’s the one that redeems him.”

~ George Lucas, 2005

https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/movie-news/george-lucas-and-the-cult-of-darth-vader-247142/

Quotes from the Mortis Arc

Kenobi - "Anakin is willful and impatient and balance alludes him." [said to Qui-gons' Force Ghost]

[I doubt very much Obi-Wan meant that Anakin wasn’t using the Darkside enough. heh]

“It is only here that I can control them. A family in balance. Day with night. Destruction, replaced by creation.“ ~ The Father

[He had to take them out of the universe. He says ‘Family’, not ‘The Force’.]

‘Destruction replaced with creation.’

"It has been foretold, 'The Chosen One shall remain [on Mortis] to keep my children in balance." ~ The Father

[That’s not what the Prophecy said.]

The Father - "But, if you leave [mortis] your selfishness will haunt you and the Galaxy."

Start of Episode Alter of Mortis [2nd episode] Narriator says in the opening scene - "The Father keeps a fragile balance between his daughter who allies with the Lightside.......and the Son who drifts ever closer to the Dark." The Father [to the Son] "You have done what is forbidden.You have chosen the Darkside and allowed it to feed your anger and your desire for power." "...Do not do this, Son, Do not become what you should not, be strong, I implore you.....else I will be forced to contain you." The Son - "You look frail Father..." The Father - "I am not dead yet.."

The Son - "Well perhaps I am Tired of waiting! [yells]

......

[If the Darkside was necessary for Balance The Father who was trying to maintain balance there would not have forbidden the Son to go to the Darkside, it would have been necessary for balance than. - The son falls to the Darkside when he attacks The Father, he wasn’t fully only the Darkside to start. That’s when Mortis went out of balance.]

The Daughter as she expires says to the Father - "Do not hate him [the son] it is in his nature".

The Father as the Daughter expires says "All is lost, the balance is broken"

[The Son falling to the Darkside, acting out of selfishness and greed and using the Darkside is what caused the imbalance.

The Son was not Sith]

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The Father - "The Darkside will consume her" - The Daughter [the lightside]

The Father - "He [The Son] will seek to leave this place [mortis] and sew terror in the universe."

The Father - “It is my actions that have unleashed great danger upon the universe. I must kill him [The Son]"

3rd Episode - 'Ghosts of Mortis'

Anakin to the Father - "What will you do? Now that he [The Son] has given himself to the Darkside?"

The Father - "It is my actions that has released great danger on the Universe. I must.....kill him."

The Father - "This place is strong with the Force, Darkness has no hold here."

The Father to the Son - "I held hope that you could resist the Darkside. I see now there is no going back."

The Father to Anakin as he dies after Anakin killed the Son - "You have brought balance to this world.”

After, The Father's form disappears. The Son's does not.

....

[There were no more Darksiders left on Mortis, only lightsiders [Anakin, Kenobi, Ahsoka and the Father] and Mortis went back into Balance.

The Father was not ‘Grey’. You can’t use both sides of the Force.

“The Father was able to absorb The Son's force lightning. While he was capable of fighting with his Force powers, he was no match for the dark side powers of his son.”

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Father_(Mortis)#Powers_and_abilities

“The Sith learned how to manipulate both sides of the Force, and then they fell into the trap of being corrupted by the dark side.”

~ George Lucas, Sci-Fi Online interview, 2005

https://ibb.co/RHxzy49

George Lucas on the bottom line of Star Wars.

Whereas if you are compassionate and you get to the end of the road you've helped so many people."

https://youtu.be/RElw0dhBsOI

"The Darkside is always there, it is experienced daily by people. It's like a huge cancer, alive, festering - both a reminder of the moral state and, at the same time symptom and symbol of a very sick society"

~ George Lucas, "The Mythology of Star Wars", Joseph Campell and the Power of Myth DVD, 2001

“If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side, which is the Dark side, but ultimately it'll be your undoing. But it's that need for power and that need for power in order to satisfy your greed to keep things and to not let go of things and allow the natural course of life to go on -- which is that things come and go -- and to be able to accept the change around you and not want to keep moments frozen forever in time."

~ George Lucas, AotC DVD commentary track [during Shmi's funeral]

~ George Lucas, Time Magazine, 2002

"Well, you have the light side - compassion, you care only about everyone else; the dark side, you care only about yourself and pleasure personally.”

~ George Lucasinterview with Newsarama.com, 2012

Dave Filoni - What George Lucas taught him about Balance in the Force

"Ultimately, the Force is an ability that can be used selflessly or selfishly and how one chooses to wield it determines whether you stand on the dark side or light. The Dark Side of the Force is manifested in our greed,desire for power, and fears. And the Light Side of the Force is propagated by selfless action, by living in balance, by overcoming our fears.

The Force naturally exists in balance; that balance is thrown out when someone chooses to give in to their fears and than spirals out of control making selfish choice after selfish choice. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."

~ Dave Filoni, on what George Lucas taught him about the Force and Balance, 2020

Dave Filoni on what George Lucas taught him about the Force.

"Everything you need to know about the Force is in the movies, I can't say that enough...Everything recycles,cosmic force, living force, cosmic force, living force...it's all made up of the same stuff.

Our agency to use the force for ourselves creates evil, and the Darkside as something to be oppressive and destructive rather than just the natural process of life and death. And than our commitment to being selfless,giving unto others, generates kindness and happiness, togetherness and bonding and not being afraid of things outside ourselves and that is the Lightside of the Force and everyone gets along and is happier....I mean this is nothing new that I'm doing."

Dave Filoni, Rebels Season 4 Finale Q&A

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/834eup/dave_filoni_gives_deep_explanation_of_the_force/

Dave Filoni on Balance in the Force

"I think it works into what the struggle is. You want to achieve this balance or you want to become ... I think it's a natural part of it, and really the introduction of this idea of balance comes from the prequels," Filoni told ComicBook.com. "That's where the prophecy of the chosen one and 'the one who will bring balance,'as quoted by Mace Windu, really comes from. So, I find that very interesting because the prequels add a tremendous amount of depth to all these things, especially ways of the Force. The people, I don't think realize that that's where it comes from, but it's not something that's natural to the original trilogy. It's something that stems from the prequels, which added a tremendous amount to what we know about Star Wars."

"One of the fundamental things to always understand about the light side and the dark side of the Force and the intentions that drive those things are willingness or will to be selfless or selfish," he said. "From those two key points of starting grow out either in enlightenment of selflessness or greed and fear and anger and hate, and you just go spiraling down and down and down, but those are the building blocks that George [Lucas] would always talk about and I always keep trying to come back to in everything I do because if you work from that point, then actually you can tell a story with the Force."

~ Dave Filoni Comicbook.com Interview, Balance in the Force, 2017 https://comicbook.com/starwars/news/dave-filoni-explains-why-the-star-wars-prequels-are-so-important/

“In the end, it’s about fundamentally becoming selfless moreso than selfish. It seems so simple, but it’s so hard to do. And when you’re tempted by the dark side, you don’t overcome it once in life and then you’re good. It’s a constant. And that’s what, really, Star Wars is about and what I think George wanted people to know. That to be a good person and to really feel better about your life and experience life fully you have to let go of everything you fear to lose. Because then you can’t be controlled.

“But when you fear, fear is the path to the dark side, it’s also the shadow of greed, because greed makes you covet things, greed makes you surround yourself with all these things that make you feel comfortable in the moment, but they don’t really make you happy. And then, when you’re afraid of something, it makes you angry, when you get angry, you start to hate something, sometimes you don’t even know why. When you hate, do you often know why you hate? No, you direct it at things and then you hate it. And it’s hard because anger can be a strength at times, but you can’t use it in such a selfish way, it can be a destroyer then. These are the core things of Star Wars.“

~ Dave Filoni, Celebration Chicago 2019

“Friendships, honestly, trust, doing the right thing, living on the right side and avoiding the dark side,” Lucas said. “Those are the things it was meant to do.”

~ Lucas on Star Wars and what its about, 2017

https://www.polygon.com/2017/4/13/15288998/george-lucas-star-wars-celebration

"Our own ambitions can make the Force into something terrible even when our intentions might have been good. We do not always realize we are acting out of fear, or selfishness. Anakin believes he is trying to save his wife, he is afraid to lose her, he chooses to act out of fears and try to control the situation. That moment of choice, how we act and react is so important. The choice between dark and light is often subtle and not limited to the Jedi and the Sith. Everyone struggles with the balance between light and dark. The Mandolorian has a choice: do his job, find the child and hand him over to the Empire, or take this lost child in and protect it, become it's gaurdian. It is a critical choice and one that greatly impacts both their lives."

~ Dave Filoini, 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbB2ji3l7DM

"That's the whole point of Star Wars. You can be selfless, or selfish. This is what George spoke about the most. This will lift you up, this will tear you down. It's really that simple, and that's the Force in a nutshell."

~ Dave Filoni 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLAeS6mCyYI

Disney Era

Question - "Surely there is harmony in both the light and the darkside? A way to control both and not be consumed by evil?'

Matt Martin [Lucasfilm Story Group] 2018 - "That sort of goes against what Star Wars is all about. The Darkside corrupts."

Matt Martin [Lucasfilm Story Group] 2019

"as George [Lucas] says, the Dark side corrupts. So one couldn't stay 'in the middle' for long. The EU isn't a great example for proper usage of the Force" https://ibb.co/J24v9Ds

Commentor - "The Bendu is in the 'middle' of both sides. I was wondering if the Dark Side was a literal side or a corruption of the Force."

Pablo Hidalgo Reply - "We only have the Bendu's word on that. No one is in any position to set anything in stone about the Force. As it should be." https://ibb.co/Kb9zH9H

"Remember that if a fictional character thinks something, it doesn't necessarily mean they're right." ~ Pablo Hidalgo [Lucasfilm Story Group]

"The Dark Side consumes. And there is no balance to be found in such a path."

Qui-Gon Jinn, Age of Republic: “Balance”

Matt Martin - [Lucasfilm Story Group] - 2018

*"I wouldn't consider Qui-Gon grey either [Ashoka]. They're good, light side Force users who happen to shirk some of the dogma of the Jedi Order."

"There really is no such thing as 'grey Jedi' in our stories"

-Pablo Hidalgo [Lucasfilm Story Group]

"Are 'Grey Jedi' canon or just a fan fic thing?"

Matt Martin [Lucasfilm story group] 2018 - 'Yeah its basically a fan thing. It doesn't really make sense with the way the Force works.'

https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/98917/are-grey-jedi-canon-official-lucasfilm-response

https://ibb.co/JcwSc3C

"The Darkside comes at a cost. That cost has to be more than "it makes me a badass."

~ Pablo Hidalgo [Lucasfilm Story Group]

"...Knowing that the film was made for a young audience, I was trying to say, in a simple way, that there is a God and that there is both a good side and a bad side. You have a choice between them, but the world works better if you're on the good side."

~ George Lucas

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Hope this helps to get a better understanding about Balance in the Force and George Lucas’s Vision of Star Wars.

People saying that killing all the Jedi so there was two Jedi and two Sith was good and was balance make me want to scream so bad for so many reasons.

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