gnostiquette

[gnostiquette]

one thing i don't think i've seen anyone mention already about this is that the author, Jason Pargin, isn't so much trying to present his own insights here as to distil and popularise ideas he found on a blog he links to in the piece, The Last Psychiatrist, whose author's worldview is uh. decidedly not feminist but kinda difficult to pin down exactly aside from being vaguely Lacanian

TLP's main thesis is a bit thorny and complicated, and his political standpoint can best be summarised as "vaguely libertarian but also that isn't really the point", but it can sort of be boiled down to: everyone these days thinks they're the main character in their own movie and will do anything in their power to keep the "movie" going, everyone feels resentment or rage when it's pointed out to them that they're not that (whether it's resentment or rage depends on whether it's the slow grinding background noise of existence telling them they're not special or a direct threat to their self-constructed identity), the system feeds off that resentment and rage, and sure, you've been fucked over by the system, but the only cure is to stop blaming circumstance, overcome your own defences against change, and actually do something to earn your position

there's some family resemblance with manosphere self-improvement stuff to an extent, it's certainly not a ringing endorsement of basically any feminist ideas, but pretty much all manosphere stuff, even the "you're a stupid pussy but i can show you how to get pussy" PUA stuff, has the stated or unstated assumption of "you deserve women and success and comfort by virtue of being a man, and it's women's fault that you don't have that". whereas TLP tries to hammer home as hard as possible "you deserve jack shit unless you worked for it yourself, and inasmuch as you deserve anything else, it's that you deserved being told by everyone around you earlier on that you deserve jack shit" (although he does suggest in some pieces that people who can't earn things for themselves should receive support in some way)

tbf to him the main reason he puts it in those terms is precisely bc he knows it's shocking and will make people angry, and he thinks that angry reaction is useful: if you're stuck in a dead-end job or something, and you know that you should quit and do something else, coming across something that pisses you off bc it's saying that it's fundamentally your fault that you're stuck like that can serve as enough of a shock to your self-conception that you might start thinking, "hey, maybe this guy is right, maybe i really should just quit and do something else and get over myself"

but yeah there is something about the direction the culture war was and is headed where something whose basic point is "literally all resentment is bad, nobody owes you anything, get off your ass" can be decontextualised and instantly taken as a feminist statement

It really does encapsulate so much of the fuckedness of the 2010s culture wars that this “mediocre white men, the world owes you nothing” listincle ppl fucking loved to whip out as a rebuke to the chuds of the day directly asked the reader, “So, what have you done to be worthy of a woman with an eating disorder?”

[gnostiquette]

the ideal song is just a i-III-V progression punctuated by shouts of "SOCIALISTA!"

[gnostiquette]

anyway i didn't touch on this enough in OP but a v big concern i have here is the idea of "moral beauty". simply doing the right thing in most situations is generally good but not in a beautiful way, arguably. but when you're faced w/ a situation like, being promised peace and prosperity and end to war in exchange for what seems in comparison a grave but tiny evil, and you refuse just to spare the relatively few potential victims, that's capital-g Good, that's Good in a beautiful way. and similarly when you break every normal rule you have in order to save someone's life, when you start kicking and screaming and doing fraud and lying your ass off in order to make sure someone doesn't die that's also Good and Beautiful.

but again, there's a sort of a contradiction here: "don't torture someone to achieve a greater good" is a very deontological sort of thing. if you have to drop a nuke on a civilian population centre in order to bring a war to an end and you say, no, fuck it, i'm not doing that, you may have indirectly caused thousands of deaths by refusing to act, for instance, but there is nonetheless something good, true, and beautiful in your refusal to do something that is intrinsically evil.

but then "lie and cheat and steal and even injure people in order to save someone's life" has a v consequentialist flavour to it: the same goodness, trueness, and beauty i (and likeminded people) can find in "following a rule against intrinsic evil to a T whatever the cost" is also found in "breaking every rule so that a Good End may come of it"

i suppose you could also flip these around and come across something vital: a highly deontological reading of halakha will still incorporate pikuaḥ nefesh, where the rule to preserve life is so damned important that every other rule is up in the air when that's the situation. and i suppose the other quality in each of these examples is that they're exceptional somehow; how often are you rly gnna encounter this sort of extreme irl? but there is something i think quite Good/True/Beautiful in e.g. systematically donating significant portions of your income to reducing suffering and saving lives in the world even if you're not constantly running into ethics textbook dilemmas (which you should do, by the way.)

now here's a real whopper of an ethical dilemma for youse out there: you come across a small settlement. it is nothing more than ten children in a filthy basement all being tortured by machines. ninety-one more children are in a cryogenic freezer upstairs, ready to thaw back to life at any moment. you come across a sign, which says that if even a single child is removed from their perpetual torture, all of the ninety-one children above will be thawed, immediately dropped into the basement, and tortured as well. you have no reason to doubt the sign, which goes on to say that the machine is indestructible, it is powered by the children, it will continue to go on for as long as the children live and the torture will only stop when they die. as a consequentialist, you have no satisfactory answer to this; not acting will just mean you have several children being tortured. as a deontologist, you have no satisfactory answer to this; saving even just one child will mean a hundred children will be tortured. as a virtue ethicist, you have no satisfactory answer to this; a virtuous person would be paralysed by this situation, as neither action nor inaction seem like the things a Good Person wld do, and the only thing a Good Person could do is agonise abt this for the rest of their life. simply put, no satisfactory action exists in possibility space.

in the Kabbalah, Tiferet is a rather unique sefirah, or aspect of God and Reality. its name is Hebrew for "beauty"; it is the mediating force between the strong-armed justice of Gevurah and the forgiving yet lenient mercy of Ḥesed, and it is directly connected to every other sefirah except for Malkhut (which it indirectly connects to through Yesod). generally, it represents fairness, harmony, and unity in difference; its planet is the Sun; its virtue in Hermetic lore is devotion to the Great Work; both Jewish and non-Jewish sources agree it is difficult to totally define, befitting its role as, in a way, a "lower Keter", the centrepiece of the Zeʿir Anpin, the Lesser Countenance. it is Beauty, it is Truth, it is Good.

how would someone with an ethics of Tiferet, an ethics of true beauty, respond to that dilemma?

true beauty would break the very laws of possibility space and crush its structure into dust.

the satan: oh foolish mortal...i greet you, to reveal your desires unto you! me: ok hey what's up the satan: i have decided to test you, to-day, to discern your commitment to The Good me: sounds great! so, do i have to reject a kingdom of glory and riches or refuse to jump off a building and make God save me or— the satan: oh no none of that. this'll be much simpler. i am going to present you with a series of ethical situations! ahahaha! me: oh sweet i think about these all the time the satan: perfect...it is time for The First Situation! now, picture a city that is so perfect, everyone is happy and no one is ever sad and there's cakes and festivals and orgies and— me: is this Omelas the satan: me: like this is just gonna be the Le Guin story with the kid in the basement right the satan: ...yeah. ok so there's the kid and the basement and there's the torture, ok yeah you know this one. right. so anyway...you have just learned about the kid being tortured in the basement. what is your judgement here? me: well uh, i guess i walk away the satan: aha but i didn't ask you what you'd do, did i? me: oh come on you tricky little fuck. ok. yeah this situation sucks the satan: and why, pray tell, do you say that is, despite all the happiness and nonsadness and cakes and festivals and orgies and whatnot? me: i suppose it's just that none of that shit justifies torturing a kid in a basement forever. also all that shit sounds kinda gay when you put it like that. like some weird Dutch fag shit the satan: ah. well, moving on, you whimsy-hating homophobe— me: what, just because i say that sounds like Dutch fag shit makes me homophobic? i'm gay you know i can call shit fag shit if i want the satan: —moving on, you would agree with the statement that whatever the consequence, it is inherently wrong to torture a child, hmm? me: well yeah that sounds about right the satan: aha...! me: wait why'd you make that noise the satan: wh-what me: that clicking noise. that was you right the satan: oh no no noise of things clicking into place emanated from my nostrils me: you worded that pretty weirdly, you know the satan: it's time for The Second Situation! you have cro— me: damn you just straight up evaded what i was saying the satan: —you have crossed The First Situation, i was saying, so now it is time for round two. ahem. now, firstly, would you agree that, in general, lying and stealing and cheating are bad? me: well, yeah. i don't like lying, and in general it seems pretty fucked up to cheat and steal the satan: so now you have come across a man in the street who is starving and wounded. after one hour he will die if he is not fed and treated for his wound. there is a store nearby but you are flat broke and have no pocket money, and begging isn't an option. even if you ask your friends to PayPal you they will not be able to get back to you for another two hours. the ER is too far away and there's too much traffic for an ambulance to arrive and take him there in less than an hour and a half, but there is a clinic nearby able to take anyone immediately. however the clinic only accepts people with insurance, and neither of you have an insurance card. you are, however, fairly confident that you can make up fake details that they would be willing to accept. me: what are you trying to write a Jacobin article or something. i'm already a socialist, you don't need to lay out how fucked up our healthcare system or whatnot is, i already know— the satan: okok sure this would never happen under socialism blahblahblah the point is what would you do in this situation me: but in the last one the point was my judgement not what i do. this is getting confusing the satan: DIFFERENT SITUATIONS HAVE DIFFERENT RULES OK?? GOD JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT FOR NOW God: OH HEY SATAN DID YOU JUST CALL UPON ME the satan: HOLD ON I'M STILL TESTING THIS GUY GIVE ME A SECOND God: OH OK THAT'S YOUR JOB AFTER ALL. I SHALL LEAVE YOU TO IT. JUST DON'T BE TOO MEAN

the satan: FUCK. ok. ok. anyway here's the question. assuming you're also relatively confident you can shoplift without getting caught, do you steal a couple things from the store for the man to eat and do you present fake information to the clinic to get them to accept the guy and treat his wound me: yeah totally. i don't want him to die or anything. i'd gladly do just about anything to save someone's life the satan: so in other words, doing bad things like lying, stealing, and cheating in order to accomplish a good thing such as saving a life is good, right? me: sure, i'd say so the satan: AAAAAHH-HAA! i have TRAPPED you! for your response to the first situation implies that good inheres in the act itself, regardless of consequences, and your response to the second implies that good inheres in the consequences of an act, regardless of the means!

me: i mean...not necessarily? like— the satan: wh-what do you mean, mortal me: well, perhaps i think the negative consequences of torture for the child far outweigh the positive consequences for everyone else the satan: what the fuck is that you're doing me: oh i mean you're doing red text, i figure i do blue text, i figure this is like an Umineko thing or whatever the satan: fine. sure. you can do that. whatever. none of this matters to me. why did i pick this fucking job in the first place me: the satan: ...ok, the townspeople get far more happiness than the kid gets suffering me: but what if suffering itself is worth more in moral accounting than happiness, for instance the satan: then how about this? in the second example, you could have caused the shop to shut down due to lost trust with the distributor! you could have caused the clinic to lose their licence over insurance fraud! those could have easily caused far more suffering than if the man simply passed out and died after an hour! me: that's...that sounds far-fetched, but you said it in red, so. ok what if good actually inheres in the character of the person doing the act, so a virtuous person would refuse to sanction torturing a child for the greater good and gladly steal and cheat to save a man's life the satan: virtue ethics is unable to provide actionable guidance! me: oh? the satan: all you can do is imagine what a virtuous person would do, and different people have wildly different imaginations! me: well hmm. that's fair. i'm not sure i could personally live with that, especially in an age where we're getting ever closer to potentially misaligned AI. what if there's rules that say you must never do some things but then other rules can be broken if there's something more important the satan: if those rules exist, then list them off and justify them to me >: ) me: uh, don't torture, don't rape...don't kill is up there, but what if you're killing someone to defend someone else...wait fuck no, what about bombing civilians to end a war, that doesn't sound justifiable at all...god damn it... God: OH HELLO YES I'M BACK the satan: NO FUCK NO WAIT NO God: HELLO DEAR SWEET MORTAL CHILD. IS MY EMPLOYEE BEING TOO HARD ON YOU? OH DEAR I CAN GIVE YOU AN ANSWER IF THIS IS GOING TOO POORLY the satan: oh come on please just let me do my job like normal God: MY DEAR LITTLE CREATURE I HOPE YOU KNOW YOU CAN SIMPLY RELY ON MY EDICT AND ALL THESE DILEMMAS BECOME AS DUST IN THE BROOM OF AN OLD FAT LADY me: why thank you, my Lord, but no matter how perfect You are, it remains that divine command theory is a fundamentally subjectivist theory that cannot provide a truly objective and impersonal basis for ethics, and subjective morality is not a risk i'm really willing to take God: BUT AREN'T I PERFECT FOR YOU AND ALL THINGS MY PRECIOUS LITTLE CREATION me: why, yes, but there's a small but persistent chance You're a figment of my imagination, just like the satan over here, and— the satan: hhHHEYYY NOW me: —and i know that You love righteousness, so really i'd rather continue pleasing You even if You weren't around to tell me what righteousness is God: WHY THAT IS VERY SWEET OF YOU. YOU KNOW WHAT I'M JUST GOING TO STRAIGHT UP LIFT YOU TO HEAVEN LIKE THAT MERRY OLD FELLOW FAUST me: wait huh the satan: w-wait Lord don't you think you're being a bit hasty in judgement a chorus of angels: [grabbing me and lifting me into the aether] ✧･ﾟ: *✧･ﾟ:*HE WHO STRIVES ON AND LIVES TO STRIVE CAN EARN REDEMPTION STILL*:･ﾟ✧*:･ﾟ✧ me: [rapidly disappearing into the sky, utterly bewildered] wait. hold on. hold up. wait,

#hence as Dostoyevsky said #beauty will save the world #ethics #philosophy #metaethics #Kabbalah

[gnostiquette]

🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸america freedom usa usa usa🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

the satan: oh foolish mortal...i greet you, to reveal your desires unto you! me: ok hey what's up the satan: i have decided to test you, to-day, to discern your commitment to The Good me: sounds great! so, do i have to reject a kingdom of glory and riches or refuse to jump off a building and make God save me or— the satan: oh no none of that. this'll be much simpler. i am going to present you with a series of ethical situations! ahahaha! me: oh sweet i think about these all the time the satan: perfect...it is time for The First Situation! now, picture a city that is so perfect, everyone is happy and no one is ever sad and there's cakes and festivals and orgies and— me: is this Omelas the satan: me: like this is just gonna be the Le Guin story with the kid in the basement right the satan: ...yeah. ok so there's the kid and the basement and there's the torture, ok yeah you know this one. right. so anyway...you have just learned about the kid being tortured in the basement. what is your judgement here? me: well uh, i guess i walk away the satan: aha but i didn't ask you what you'd do, did i? me: oh come on you tricky little fuck. ok. yeah this situation sucks the satan: and why, pray tell, do you say that is, despite all the happiness and nonsadness and cakes and festivals and orgies and whatnot? me: i suppose it's just that none of that shit justifies torturing a kid in a basement forever. also all that shit sounds kinda gay when you put it like that. like some weird Dutch fag shit the satan: ah. well, moving on, you whimsy-hating homophobe— me: what, just because i say that sounds like Dutch fag shit makes me homophobic? i'm gay you know i can call shit fag shit if i want the satan: —moving on, you would agree with the statement that whatever the consequence, it is inherently wrong to torture a child, hmm? me: well yeah that sounds about right the satan: aha...! me: wait why'd you make that noise the satan: wh-what me: that clicking noise. that was you right the satan: oh no no noise of things clicking into place emanated from my nostrils me: you worded that pretty weirdly, you know the satan: it's time for The Second Situation! you have cro— me: damn you just straight up evaded what i was saying the satan: —you have crossed The First Situation, i was saying, so now it is time for round two. ahem. now, firstly, would you agree that, in general, lying and stealing and cheating are bad? me: well, yeah. i don't like lying, and in general it seems pretty fucked up to cheat and steal the satan: so now you have come across a man in the street who is starving and wounded. after one hour he will die if he is not fed and treated for his wound. there is a store nearby but you are flat broke and have no pocket money, and begging isn't an option. even if you ask your friends to PayPal you they will not be able to get back to you for another two hours. the ER is too far away and there's too much traffic for an ambulance to arrive and take him there in less than an hour and a half, but there is a clinic nearby able to take anyone immediately. however the clinic only accepts people with insurance, and neither of you have an insurance card. you are, however, fairly confident that you can make up fake details that they would be willing to accept. me: what are you trying to write a Jacobin article or something. i'm already a socialist, you don't need to lay out how fucked up our healthcare system or whatnot is, i already know— the satan: okok sure this would never happen under socialism blahblahblah the point is what would you do in this situation me: but in the last one the point was my judgement not what i do. this is getting confusing the satan: DIFFERENT SITUATIONS HAVE DIFFERENT RULES OK?? GOD JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT FOR NOW God: OH HEY SATAN DID YOU JUST CALL UPON ME the satan: HOLD ON I'M STILL TESTING THIS GUY GIVE ME A SECOND God: OH OK THAT'S YOUR JOB AFTER ALL. I SHALL LEAVE YOU TO IT. JUST DON'T BE TOO MEAN

the satan: FUCK. ok. ok. anyway here's the question. assuming you're also relatively confident you can shoplift without getting caught, do you steal a couple things from the store for the man to eat and do you present fake information to the clinic to get them to accept the guy and treat his wound me: yeah totally. i don't want him to die or anything. i'd gladly do just about anything to save someone's life the satan: so in other words, doing bad things like lying, stealing, and cheating in order to accomplish a good thing such as saving a life is good, right? me: sure, i'd say so the satan: AAAAAHH-HAA! i have TRAPPED you! for your response to the first situation implies that good inheres in the act itself, regardless of consequences, and your response to the second implies that good inheres in the consequences of an act, regardless of the means!

me: i mean...not necessarily? like— the satan: wh-what do you mean, mortal me: well, perhaps i think the negative consequences of torture for the child far outweigh the positive consequences for everyone else the satan: what the fuck is that you're doing me: oh i mean you're doing red text, i figure i do blue text, i figure this is like an Umineko thing or whatever the satan: fine. sure. you can do that. whatever. none of this matters to me. why did i pick this fucking job in the first place me: the satan: ...ok, the townspeople get far more happiness than the kid gets suffering me: but what if suffering itself is worth more in moral accounting than happiness, for instance the satan: then how about this? in the second example, you could have caused the shop to shut down due to lost trust with the distributor! you could have caused the clinic to lose their licence over insurance fraud! those could have easily caused far more suffering than if the man simply passed out and died after an hour! me: that's...that sounds far-fetched, but you said it in red, so. ok what if good actually inheres in the character of the person doing the act, so a virtuous person would refuse to sanction torturing a child for the greater good and gladly steal and cheat to save a man's life the satan: virtue ethics is unable to provide actionable guidance! me: oh? the satan: all you can do is imagine what a virtuous person would do, and different people have wildly different imaginations! me: well hmm. that's fair. i'm not sure i could personally live with that, especially in an age where we're getting ever closer to potentially misaligned AI. what if there's rules that say you must never do some things but then other rules can be broken if there's something more important the satan: if those rules exist, then list them off and justify them to me >: ) me: uh, don't torture, don't rape...don't kill is up there, but what if you're killing someone to defend someone else...wait fuck no, what about bombing civilians to end a war, that doesn't sound justifiable at all...god damn it... God: OH HELLO YES I'M BACK the satan: NO FUCK NO WAIT NO God: HELLO DEAR SWEET MORTAL CHILD. IS MY EMPLOYEE BEING TOO HARD ON YOU? OH DEAR I CAN GIVE YOU AN ANSWER IF THIS IS GOING TOO POORLY the satan: oh come on please just let me do my job like normal God: MY DEAR LITTLE CREATURE I HOPE YOU KNOW YOU CAN SIMPLY RELY ON MY EDICT AND ALL THESE DILEMMAS BECOME AS DUST IN THE BROOM OF AN OLD FAT LADY me: why thank you, my Lord, but no matter how perfect You are, it remains that divine command theory is a fundamentally subjectivist theory that cannot provide a truly objective and impersonal basis for ethics, and subjective morality is not a risk i'm really willing to take God: BUT AREN'T I PERFECT FOR YOU AND ALL THINGS MY PRECIOUS LITTLE CREATION me: why, yes, but there's a small but persistent chance You're a figment of my imagination, just like the satan over here, and— the satan: hhHHEYYY NOW me: —and i know that You love righteousness, so really i'd rather continue pleasing You even if You weren't around to tell me what righteousness is God: WHY THAT IS VERY SWEET OF YOU. YOU KNOW WHAT I'M JUST GOING TO STRAIGHT UP LIFT YOU TO HEAVEN LIKE THAT MERRY OLD FELLOW FAUST me: wait huh the satan: w-wait Lord don't you think you're being a bit hasty in judgement a chorus of angels: [grabbing me and lifting me into the aether] ✧･ﾟ: *✧･ﾟ:*HE WHO STRIVES ON AND LIVES TO STRIVE CAN EARN REDEMPTION STILL*:･ﾟ✧*:･ﾟ✧ me: [rapidly disappearing into the sky, utterly bewildered] wait. hold on. hold up. wait,

[gnostiquette]

the satan: oh foolish mortal...i greet you, to reveal your desires unto you! me: ok hey what's up the satan: i have decided to test you, to-day, to discern your commitment to The Good me: sounds great! so, do i have to reject a kingdom of glory and riches or refuse to jump off a building and make God save me or— the satan: oh no none of that. this'll be much simpler. i am going to present you with a series of ethical situations! ahahaha! me: oh sweet i think about these all the time the satan: perfect...it is time for The First Situation! now, picture a city that is so perfect, everyone is happy and no one is ever sad and there's cakes and festivals and orgies and— me: is this Omelas the satan: me: like this is just gonna be the Le Guin story with the kid in the basement right the satan: ...yeah. ok so there's the kid and the basement and there's the torture, ok yeah you know this one. right. so anyway...you have just learned about the kid being tortured in the basement. what is your judgement here? me: well uh, i guess i walk away the satan: aha but i didn't ask you what you'd do, did i? me: oh come on you tricky little fuck. ok. yeah this situation sucks the satan: and why, pray tell, do you say that is, despite all the happiness and nonsadness and cakes and festivals and orgies and whatnot? me: i suppose it's just that none of that shit justifies torturing a kid in a basement forever. also all that shit sounds kinda gay when you put it like that. like some weird Dutch fag shit the satan: ah. well, moving on, you whimsy-hating homophobe— me: what, just because i say that sounds like Dutch fag shit makes me homophobic? i'm gay you know i can call shit fag shit if i want the satan: —moving on, you would agree with the statement that whatever the consequence, it is inherently wrong to torture a child, hmm? me: well yeah that sounds about right the satan: aha...! me: wait why'd you make that noise the satan: wh-what me: that clicking noise. that was you right the satan: oh no no noise of things clicking into place emanated from my nostrils me: you worded that pretty weirdly, you know the satan: it's time for The Second Situation! you have cro— me: damn you just straight up evaded what i was saying the satan: —you have crossed The First Situation, i was saying, so now it is time for round two. ahem. now, firstly, would you agree that, in general, lying and stealing and cheating are bad? me: well, yeah. i don't like lying, and in general it seems pretty fucked up to cheat and steal the satan: so now you have come across a man in the street who is starving and wounded. after one hour he will die if he is not fed and treated for his wound. there is a store nearby but you are flat broke and have no pocket money, and begging isn't an option. even if you ask your friends to PayPal you they will not be able to get back to you for another two hours. the ER is too far away and there's too much traffic for an ambulance to arrive and take him there in less than an hour and a half, but there is a clinic nearby able to take anyone immediately. however the clinic only accepts people with insurance, and neither of you have an insurance card. you are, however, fairly confident that you can make up fake details that they would be willing to accept. me: what are you trying to write a Jacobin article or something. i'm already a socialist, you don't need to lay out how fucked up our healthcare system or whatnot is, i already know— the satan: okok sure this would never happen under socialism blahblahblah the point is what would you do in this situation me: but in the last one the point was my judgement not what i do. this is getting confusing the satan: DIFFERENT SITUATIONS HAVE DIFFERENT RULES OK?? GOD JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT FOR NOW God: OH HEY SATAN DID YOU JUST CALL UPON ME the satan: HOLD ON I'M STILL TESTING THIS GUY GIVE ME A SECOND God: OH OK THAT'S YOUR JOB AFTER ALL. I SHALL LEAVE YOU TO IT. JUST DON'T BE TOO MEAN

the satan: FUCK. ok. ok. anyway here's the question. assuming you're also relatively confident you can shoplift without getting caught, do you steal a couple things from the store for the man to eat and do you present fake information to the clinic to get them to accept the guy and treat his wound me: yeah totally. i don't want him to die or anything. i'd gladly do just about anything to save someone's life the satan: so in other words, doing bad things like lying, stealing, and cheating in order to accomplish a good thing such as saving a life is good, right? me: sure, i'd say so the satan: AAAAAHH-HAA! i have TRAPPED you! for your response to the first situation implies that good inheres in the act itself, regardless of consequences, and your response to the second implies that good inheres in the consequences of an act, regardless of the means!

me: i mean...not necessarily? like— the satan: wh-what do you mean, mortal me: well, perhaps i think the negative consequences of torture for the child far outweigh the positive consequences for everyone else the satan: what the fuck is that you're doing me: oh i mean you're doing red text, i figure i do blue text, i figure this is like an Umineko thing or whatever the satan: fine. sure. you can do that. whatever. none of this matters to me. why did i pick this fucking job in the first place me: the satan: ...ok, the townspeople get far more happiness than the kid gets suffering me: but what if suffering itself is worth more in moral accounting than happiness, for instance the satan: then how about this? in the second example, you could have caused the shop to shut down due to lost trust with the distributor! you could have caused the clinic to lose their licence over insurance fraud! those could have easily caused far more suffering than if the man simply passed out and died after an hour! me: that's...that sounds far-fetched, but you said it in red, so. ok what if good actually inheres in the character of the person doing the act, so a virtuous person would refuse to sanction torturing a child for the greater good and gladly steal and cheat to save a man's life the satan: virtue ethics is unable to provide actionable guidance! me: oh? the satan: all you can do is imagine what a virtuous person would do, and different people have wildly different imaginations! me: well hmm. that's fair. i'm not sure i could personally live with that, especially in an age where we're getting ever closer to potentially misaligned AI. what if there's rules that say you must never do some things but then other rules can be broken if there's something more important the satan: if those rules exist, then list them off and justify them to me >: ) me: uh, don't torture, don't rape...don't kill is up there, but what if you're killing someone to defend someone else...wait fuck no, what about bombing civilians to end a war, that doesn't sound justifiable at all...god damn it... God: OH HELLO YES I'M BACK the satan: NO FUCK NO WAIT NO God: HELLO DEAR SWEET MORTAL CHILD. IS MY EMPLOYEE BEING TOO HARD ON YOU? OH DEAR I CAN GIVE YOU AN ANSWER IF THIS IS GOING TOO POORLY the satan: oh come on please just let me do my job like normal God: MY DEAR LITTLE CREATURE I HOPE YOU KNOW YOU CAN SIMPLY RELY ON MY EDICT AND ALL THESE DILEMMAS BECOME AS DUST IN THE BROOM OF AN OLD FAT LADY me: why thank you, my Lord, but no matter how perfect You are, it remains that divine command theory is a fundamentally subjectivist theory that cannot provide a truly objective and impersonal basis for ethics, and subjective morality is not a risk i'm really willing to take God: BUT AREN'T I PERFECT FOR YOU AND ALL THINGS MY PRECIOUS LITTLE CREATION me: why, yes, but there's a small but persistent chance You're a figment of my imagination, just like the satan over here, and— the satan: hhHHEYYY NOW me: —and i know that You love righteousness, so really i'd rather continue pleasing You even if You weren't around to tell me what righteousness is God: WHY THAT IS VERY SWEET OF YOU. YOU KNOW WHAT I'M JUST GOING TO STRAIGHT UP LIFT YOU TO HEAVEN LIKE THAT MERRY OLD FELLOW FAUST me: wait huh the satan: w-wait Lord don't you think you're being a bit hasty in judgement a chorus of angels: [grabbing me and lifting me into the aether] ✧･ﾟ: *✧･ﾟ:*HE WHO STRIVES ON AND LIVES TO STRIVE CAN EARN REDEMPTION STILL*:･ﾟ✧*:･ﾟ✧ me: [rapidly disappearing into the sky, utterly bewildered] wait. hold on. hold up. wait,

#ethics #metaethics #philosophy #this is what's going on inside my head 24/7

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gay people will wake up and say Sooo do I wanna eat flasp or slup cunk to-day

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sometimes a person just wants to slup on a cunk and eat flasp. No problem with that

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gay people will seriously slup a cunk and think that's Cool

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*trying to come on to you* Whoa nice ouroboros tattoo you got there, I've been practising something along those lines myself, wanna see *I immediately lie down and contort my body in a way you didn't even think was possible and bury my face in my own ass*

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might repost some classics here

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women is as women does. you give them an inch they want the whole dang penis

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any trans women on here wanna tell me if im doing my injection right

its not estrtogen its clarified butter i made this morning

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idk how this site works #damn

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my bf has finally made it to this site. wow

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ftr i dropped off the face of the earth back when he was like regularly called The Hussmaster and shit. i guess he seems kind of dorky now but like. was the whole fandom subsumed by c4110vt5t\/ck or what

critical support for Andrew Hussie

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critical support for Andrew Hussie

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hey im back. is this website good yet? are you all well behaved