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Upbringing or blood (more precisely, poison)… I've read a lot of Cassie's answers on this topic, and yet the blood has affected him more. I liked her response about how she was inspired by a book about children who kill and wrote a novel based on it. Lilith's blood poisoned Seb's soul, and no matter how much he was taught the right things, he did not understand it. Where normal children have morality, an understanding of what is good and what is evil, Seb does not distinguish between them. (funny, but Valentine has another problem, he idealizes everything too much, if he was offended by one werewolf, then all the undead became terrible and so on). For Seb, killing someone is the same as having lunch. war is entertainment for him. And it's definitely Lilith's blood. Even she herself warned about it, that her blood would destroy everything human in him. And this is Valentine's huge fault, he did not take her words seriously, took such a huge risk, destroyed his boy and created a monster out of him, and then died, and the monster was free and almost destroyed all life (and in the alternate universe he quite succeeded). and now about education… if you carefully read the only dialogue between Val and Seb in "glass city", you will see that Valentine's teaching is not entirely immoral, he is trying to explain to his son that killing Hodge is not good, that war is not fun. Seb also has his own head on his shoulders, and he is not so suggestible - Valentine hated the undead and most likely taught his son this, but Seb is still on the side of the undead, he makes an alliance with them; he can well afford to argue with Valentine, Jace is more careful with him. and we see him before his death without Lilith's blood, if parenting was something more than poison, he would not regret anything and would not ask for forgiveness. I don't blame Val for the upbringing and education he gave the children, I don't think it's that terrible - just look at the result: They are skilled in combat, know many languages, understand complex mathematical calculations and can ride horses. But it's his fault that he conducted such a terrible experiment, creating a terrible evil - and, by the way, even he realized it himself and was ashamed of it.

Oh, yes, I can talk about this topic for ages🌚

Is his behavior more a result of the demon blood or his upbringing? Does he have some responsibility for his own behavior or can it be blamed entirely on Valentine? Tell me in the tags/comments!

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The relationship with Valentin is associated with a raging flame, they probably had so much passion and feelings. For the first and short young love, Valentine is quite suitable, but for serious relationships and starting a family, of course, Luke is better. He is the personification of calmness and he has no mental problems. Jocelyn would have been happy with him. She shouldn't have chosen his parabatai.

#valentine 🔥 jocelyn 💗 luke

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“The Deflect/Block rune helps Shadowhunters fend off incoming blows. Although handy in fierce conflicts and quickly and easily applied, it is often impractical to use in the course of battle.”

He was just a kid 😭💔

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Judging by the expression on Valentine's face, he himself does not understand how he got into the Herondale company and is very unhappy with this mistake😂

Wait I've just realized... It's very old Cassandra Jean's art called "Herondale Boys & Parabatai" but...

There's Valentine Morgenstern for some reason.

He's Luke's parabatai so... Does it mean that he was originally planned to be Stephen's parabatai? That, by the way, would make much more sense in terms of "Stephen divorced his wife because Valentine told him". It's one thing when your leader asks you to do it and another one when your leader AND your parabatai says that you'll be happier with someone else.

Also, there's no Tobias and his older brother William😔

And yep, Jonathan Shadowhunter is like father of all nephilims, but also he actually isn't. Because he, his sister and his parabatai were walking around and making everyone drink out of the mortal cup to become nephilims, I doubt that all Shadowhunters are his relatives. So... The first Herondale boy huh? Might it be a reason why the angel left the star mark on Will Herondale and his descendants? To... Idk not confuse the original Shadowhunter line with others?

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When Valentine found Jocelyn Jocelyn:

#cassandra clare #the mortal instruments #shadowhunters #jocelyn fairchild #jocelyn fray #valentine morgenstern

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Hi, do you think Valentine had a relationship with anyone else after all these years of separation from Jocelyn?

Hmm, I think not. And that's why: he didn't have time for women, after all, he was raising two sons. After Jocelyn's "betrayal", he could hardly trust anyone. (one can assume some fleeting connections, but I am more inclined to believe that Valentin is purely monogamous).

A long time ago, I saw on Twitter Cassie's answer to a similar question, to which she replied that Val had no one. In this respect, they were similar to Jocelyn.

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Valentine, out of love for his father, ruined his life and many others, wanting revenge for the death of his father, the death of his parents literally drove him crazy.

Jonathan-Sebastian… I think deep down in his "soul" he breathed a sigh of relief when his father died and he was freed from his control. Could he love Valentina - hardly. All he wanted to do was prove that he was the best.

Ash calls his father "the infernal father" and kills him without a drop of regret.

What we see… Degradation of family relations of the Morgenstern family.

#the mortal instruments #shadowhunters #the shadowhunters chronicles #tsc #oskar morgenstern #valentine morgenstern #jonathan morgenstern #sebastian morgenstern #ash morgenstern

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I'm really interested in Jocelyn and Valentine's relationship. even the small details. Hodge said Jocelyn and Valentine went dancing at the Agreement Hall. and it seemed like they were really affectionate. Was Jocelyn afraid of Clary and Jace sleeping together because she was afraid it would make Clary want to be with him forever? Could this be what happened to her and Valentine? I have so many curiosities...

Clary is ready to be with Jace forever without this, but keep in mind that, unlike Jocelyn, she does not run away to marry him at the age of 18. The fact that Jocelyn disapproves of their late-night meetings is understandable-she is a mother. And besides, she hadn't liked Jace for a long time.

Valentine always seemed to me to be too strict with himself with his own peculiar code of honor, and therefore I always thought that they would go beyond kissing only after the wedding

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Clary: * destroys Valentine's ship * Valentine: * laughs nervously, pretending that he has everything under control*

When the book compared Valentine and Sebastian, one of the differences was that Valentine was not one of those who laughed easily. But in his first trilogy, all he does is laugh.

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I was amused by their campfire gatherings at The Evil We Love. and maybe if the majority of the circle had not been silent at the very beginning, but had spoken about their opinion and were ready to defend it like Michael, then everything would not have gone so far. I suddenly remembered that if Luke and Val hadn't broken up, Luke would have been Jonathan's godfather🥺

thinking about the friendship dynamics between the circle members if Valentine wasn't evil. Thinking about them going on adventures and flipping off the clave. Thinking about them being the kings and queens of 80s dark academia. Thinking about Stephen surviving and never leaving Amatis. Thinking about them becoming the God parents of each others kids.

Thinking about those academy kids who were way over their heads.

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q&a shadowhunter royalty

“gldomenico said: Hi Cassie! In TDA, Mark and other consider the Rosales "shadowhunter royalty”. What other families in the shadowhunter world would also be considered as such? Would the Morgensterns? (In the codex they were a respected family until Valentine, but there is Clary). What about the Blackthorns?? Lightwoods? Etc.“

When Mark refers to the Rosales family as ‘royalty’ he’s making reference to them being an old family with a long and glorious history hunting demons. There are many families that could also qualify, but since Mark isn’t talking about an official designation, which families qualify as 'royalty’ is a matter of opinion, and would vary based on who you asked. (Imagine what Zara’s answer to this question would be. Horrifying, no doubt!) The Morgensterns are an old family, but Valentine messed things up for them, and his father was no peach, either. The Lightwoods have lost face on a couple different occasions, when Benedict Lightwood consorted with demons and literally turned into a worm, and when Robert joined the Circle, but they’ve recovered quite well, considering. The Blackthorns have always tended to behave a little outside the norms of Shadowhunter society—their family motto is about breaking the law if the law is unjust!—so they probably would not be considered 'royalty’ by very many Shadowhunters. So: Some families are older than others, and some are more famous. That doesn’t necessarily mean they are better Shadowhunters or more heroic people. Some families keep a lower profile than others. Some families have stories that fit into narratives that particularly appeal to the Nephilim, based on their mandate, and those stories tend to be the ones that are remembered and repeated. Also, it’s worth remembering that every demon-hunting family has skeletons in the closet. That includes the Rosales family as well. : )

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Maryse definitely mentioned it. But the cohort is still different from the circle, the circle is radicals who wanted the complete destruction of the downworlders, and the cohort strives to control the downworlders, Valentin is a fanatic and an extremist, and Horace is more of a bureaucrat.

One thing I don't understand about the books is how no one compared the cohort with the circle. Didn't both groups have the same objectives and goals? Like they both hated downworlders. I don't know why they never mentioned it or outright said it. If I'm wrong please correct me

#the circle of raziel #cohort

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Do you think Valentine ever tried to recruit the Blackthorn brothers? Before or after Faerie? And what would his opinions have been on Helen and Mark and their dad?

They have a big age difference, so it's unlikely that their paths could have crossed at the academy when Valentin was actively gaining a circle. It is logical that Valentine could invite the Blackthorn brothers to join the circle if information reached him about what happened to them in the fairy kingdom, assuming that they wanted revenge and justice, which the conclave could not give.

In fact, it would be funny if he had a negative attitude towards Helen and Mark when his son is closer to Lilith than to Raziel, and it's his fault. But Valentine is so paranoid, so most likely he would never trust half-bloods. Oh gods, now I remember about Ash-send Val a message to hell that his grandson is half fae and doesn't seem to appreciate the Shadowhunter tradition (unlike the Blackthorns)-I wish I could see his expression.

#arthur blackthorn #andrew blackthorn #shadowhunters #cassandra clare #blackthorn family

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Valentine Headcanons plsssss

Well, I have a few thoughts about him at a young age :)

As a child, he had his own tree house, which he built himself, and when his parents were out of sorts, he spent time there, training Munin and Hugin.

Deep down, he liked art (especially music and woodcarving), but before Jocelyn came into his life, he hid it because his father always despised such things, considering them primitive interests unsuitable for a warrior.

He always shared food with the kids from the circle (Hodge, Celine and maybe Jeremy).

Valentine and Maryse were the main wine lovers, they often stayed with a bottle of wine for too long, and Jocelyn and Robert were terribly annoyed.

I do not know where this came from in my head, but I think that Blackwell (one of the members of the circle who ran away with Val after the uprising and helped arrange his "death" in front of Jace) was in love with him🤷

The books mention so often how dramatically Valentine changed that I'm really starting to wonder if he was possessed by some kind of demon (after all, a sudden change in the negative side is one of the "symptoms"), and that's why he later got along so easily with demonic creatures.

#valentine morgenstern #cassandra clare #shadowhunters

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I imagined Jonathan as a child setting fire to other people's houses in neighboring villages for fun and filling their wells with water from Lake Lin!

But little Jonathan was just making harmless fun of his father:

I thought that if young Valentine had a hobby, it was taxidermy… But he just liked to carve wood:

#cassandra clare #an illustrated history of notable shadowhunters & denizens of downworld #the shadowhunter chronicles #shadowhunters #sebastian morgenstern #jonathan morgenstern #valentine morgenstern

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i strongly believe that Jocelyn fell in love with Valentine because his father’s death made her feel empathetic with him, But also believe she never noticed any strange behavior from him, because he was always so kind to her. We can see in "The Evil we love", that Jocelyn somehow didn't like how Valentine spoke to Hodge, and gently squeezed his shoulder to make him soften. Just as we can see in "The wicked ones", the way Celine described what Valentine was like when he was with Jocelyn. apparently, he was actually affectionate towards her, and perhaps this had "blinded" her so that she didn't see what he really was like.

It probably is. next to her, he hid his true face as carefully as possible, and Jocelyn, apparently hoping that he was the real one. In the deleted version of Jocelyn's story, she says that his outbursts of anger were so brief that she forced herself to believe that it did not happen at all. Love is evil

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do you have any Clary and Valentine Headcanons? Because weirdly, I’m interested in those two together. Clary is a perfect mix of Valentine and Jocelyn for me!

Unfortunately not, and their relationship in the canon seems so terrible and empty to me. They hated each other...Father and daughter 💔But I like to think about what kind of father he would have been to her if he had been better and their family had been preserved.

#cassandra clare #clary fairchild #valentine morgenstern