#yeah we can make fun of the blonde and blue eyed Israelis (especially the South African converts) for larping but

[nicosraf]

The weird thing about the debate on Israeli's indigenousness is that "indigenous" doesn't mean... you're From somewhere. You can stop being indigenous; you can stop being indigenous while still existing in the place your ancestors were born. "Indigenous" isn't that you have the memory of belonging to a place or notice little cultural things in your family that tie into your ancestral homeland. I mean, there's a reason we don't call British people in Britan indigenous.

Indigenousness is about perpetual opposition to settler colonialism, which is about the complete uprooting of a pre-existing culture and forcing that land to accommodate an extractivist, export economy. That's what it is. It's not about being from a place or even having a """tie to the land.""" (The "tie to the land" is definitely an element of indigenousness but it's really just a romanticized simplification of indigenousness — a simple answer for why indigenous people are at the frontline of environmental movements.)

When the Spanish came to Mexico, they worked with the noble Nahua people to de-indigenize them. They did this by converting them to Catholicism, teaching them European writing (Latin) and academics, and relying on the Nahua nobility to help enforce the new political system. Fransicans are usually credited with converting Mexico to Christianity, but the ones who did most of the work were the young, Nahua "niños del monasterio" who marched into the villages and burned the idols of the gods — of both their own and other indigenous communities. (Nahua soldiers are credited with being the ones who helped the Spanish conquer the rest of Mexico's native people).

Indigenous/mestizo scholar Chimalpahin wrote about the history of the "Aztecs" by calling every Nahua god a demon, by positioning the Spanish like a good development and by arguing his specific Nahua city was better than the other by appealing to Spanish sentiments. ("But maybe he was just speaking to the Spanish!!!" He wrote in Nahuatl for presumably a Nahua audience.) (Academics don't agree on whether to call him indigenous).

"Chimalpahin and the noble Nahuas were violently forced into assimilating into Spanish nobility; you are sick for trying to argue that they weren't indigenous anymore." I'm not arguing that they weren't, but they were players in de-indigenizing Mexico, and it's important that it was forced.

De-tribalization and de-indigenization are always violent and ugly; you don't lose your indigenousness, usually, because you're evil. Chimalpahin and the noble Nahuas were still victims and horribly traumatized. They were also enforcers of de-indigenization.

Anyway, I'm mestizo and have ties to central Mexico and feel a sense of belonging there, at times. I'm not indigenous to it though. The memory of any indigenousness in my family is just a memory now. We visit, and I eat so so many poblano peppers. But we've detribalized, become borderline settlers by participating in capitalism, lightened our skin through generations, probably intentionally (many Mexicans have heard the phrase that we have to "better our race"). If I wanted to actually reconnect, it would be a lot of work; any reconnecting indigenous person can tell you how much work it is.

I know people get really prissy about how "You can't compare Israelis to white European settlers in America because we actually have a connection to the land!!!! We are actually from there!! >:/ some of us are not even white!"

Well let's think of the majority brown mestizo (mixed) population of Mexico. Are they indigenous because they might have "ties to the land" and because they have lineage from it?? Maybe they were once, but for the majority now — no. Without a mass effort to oppose settler colonialism and reconnect, mestizos are not indigenous and might never be again, no matter how much of their pre-colombian culture persists in our quieter traditions and language. And the Mexican state is happy to co-opt aesthetic representations of indigenousness, to talk about our glorious "Aztec" ancestry, while actively hurting indigenous populations.

So assume some, or lets say all!, Israelis have every possible connection to the land (lets say they love the olive trees and cry over the murder of all the Nile crocodiles), maybe they're visibly non-white, maybe they can trace their lineage to the exact spot where they stand. But if they're on the side of a settler colonial, capitalist state (say it was even forced on them!! say they were even made to move there!!! say they are like the Nahua nobles) — how indigenous are you?

How much longer will you remain " indigenous " ???

#would like to add that of course Jews have every right to live in Palestine (migration and returning to the homeland is always cool) #but the hijacking of indigenous sentiments by a nation state (capitalist & western-friendly) is not only well documented but pretty horrifi #sorry for this rant but i feel like im actually losing my mind with this talk #yeah we can make fun of the blonde and blue eyed Israelis (especially the South African converts) for larping but #genuinely the first step to de-indigenize is to align yourself with capitalist powers (even if forced) #palestine #mine #also i will lock this post if anyone starts bugging me too much because i dont really have the energy to spend the day debating #maybe ill even delete this