#that actress really could have played gabs though it's almost exactly how I imagined her in tvl

[imethirdperson]

Antoinette in this episode gave me a lot of Gabrielle vibes. I like the implications but also I don't

#they probably only made her crossdress to show she was in hiding #but still very creepy on lestat's part #that actress really could have played gabs though it's almost exactly how I imagined her in tvl #iwtv #iwtv spoilers

[cookiedoughmeagain]

Haven DVD Commentaries; 5.11 - Reflections

Commentary with Shernold Edwards (writer for the episode) and Shireen Razack (writer for the next episode), and also a bit with Josh the assistant. I love this commentary, Shernold and Shireen are both really fun; they probably laugh as much as they talk throughout this. 

SR: It was really freaking fun [joining Haven this season] because I’d been a big fan of Haven beforehand, so being able to join on the writing staff and be part of the mythology for the last season - oh, can we say that? SE: Yep. SR: That was pretty awesome, seeing it to the end. SE: Oh! Yeah.

SE: So, maybe we could talk about where we came up with the ideas for the story, I think - oh poor thing! [photo of a dead Peter Palak on screen]. Shireen and I wrote this as a block together, and many of the blocks up to this point in this season have been continuations; parts one and two of things. SR: Yeah, which isn’t as true with these two. Because originally we had a couple of the characters cross over, but 5.12 ended up being almost a complete stand alone. SE: Yeah, so I guess - oh that’s a cute jacket [on Audrey]. SR: This is probably my favourite part of this episode [as Nathan is talking to Audrey in the station about her being ill]. I’ve always been a Naudrey, and Shernold is more of a Daudrey, so between the two of us we… SE: Hey. I am not a Daudrey. SR: Well you have to admit that we would get into some heated discussions about the Duke and Nathan of it all. SE: Yeah the Duke and Nathan of it all, but. You know; Audrey belongs with who she belongs with... (SR: Which is Nathan) SE: ... And for those who feel like this was fan fiction, trying to get Duke with his own version of Audrey; that’s not true. SR: It is a little true. SE: It’s not true! [both laughing] SE: You’re unravelling all the good work coming up in the commentary with Lucas Bryant. SR: OK, I’ll take it back.

SE: Anyway, I did have a lot of fun writing this because I had an opportunity to see Emily, who is really fantastic at both roles, to see how she as the actress, or rather as the two characters, interacts with the two men, in the … love triangle? The two men of Haven. SR: And when we were discussing whether or not Mara and Duke should do the deed, there was just … a lot of arguments about it. SE: There was a lot of arguments. It was on the board and then it was off the board, and then it was on the board. SR: And then when it finally made it on the board and it was … SE: Did we pitch that? I don’t think it was on the timeline. SR: That’s possible. Because when we got to the end of the episode we were like; it just naturally should just happen. And at that point I was like; I’m so jealous that you get to write that. SE: Yeah, we were like; do you think, we could, possibly … have some sex? Yeah. You might here a lot of giggling here because Shireen and I were known as, what was it Team Trinny? [Trinnie?] SR: Yeah, Team Trinny. Both of us come from Canada and Trinidadian parents, so yeah. SE: But you are the one with the dirty mind. SR: Just me? SE: Yes! SR: um, I think there would be some on the staff who would disagree with you on that. SE: I think the sex actually was your idea initially. And I was like; Oh my precious heart - are you serious? Can’t they just love-kiss? SE: Wait, I think the sex for Dwight was my idea. SR: Oh yeah; you do like your Dwight SR: Dwight has just been celibate for too long. SE: That’s right. And a man who looks like that should be in charge of his body and get to do whatever he wants, whatever makes him comfortable and if that includes taking his shirt off and having a love scene, then hey SR: But we’re on the wrong episode for that one SE: Are we? [much laughing] SE: We should have … talked more before this. I’m sorry Josh.

SE: I’m still trying to remember our initial thing - Oh, I wanted to do something that meant something. So initially the whole thing started off having two young women at the centre. I think. Was it the lesbian thing that came first? Or the … oh we wanted to do a body image Trouble, that’s what it was. SR: Yeah, it started out as a body image Trouble, and then it morphed into, or it all came back to dealing with some form of bigotry. SE: Yeah - [the first signs of the Trouble kick in on screen] omg what? Her hand just fell off! I haven’t see this … Oh my goodness. That was scary. That was the first time I’ve seen that effect. That’s a really gruesome image. Normally that’s one of the last things I think about when pitching a story is how it’s going to open. Because you’ve got to start strong.  But anyway yes, we wanted to do something along the lines of body image and just say something about it. And so it was about bigotry, and then it also ended up being about how people see each other. SR: Yeah, that too. SE: And then we tried to tack on also some weight issues as well. And the young woman who plays Grace; lovely, talented, and just looks like a girl. And that we had to cast her as the young woman with weight issues, just says something else entirely.

SE: I like these two together [Dwight and Vince] SR: I do too. Because when I started out as the Haven fan, I was all about Nathan. But then once Dwight joined the cast, I was just like; Wait, hang on a second. But I’m much happier that Dwight’s becoming involved with Charlotte. Rather than us having a Dwight/Audrey thing; a new component to the triangle. That would have been just too much. SE: Well there’s that thing that Speed wrote. I think it was Speed. In 5.04, where Dwight says something about; there’s already too many people there. That was great.

SR: Oh Gloria. SE: She really sold this. [much laughing at Gloria’s line about Charlotte being so skinny]

SR: I love the casting of the mom. SE: Yeah she was really good. Alisen Down; Canadian treasure. We should point out all the things Canadian. Oh there are the girls outside. You know, you always write these scene where you’re like; through the window we can see… whatever. And I don’t want to say that’s a lazy tactic exactly, but it can be very handy. SR: Yeah. But was it originally in the script as through the window, or were they off in another part of the cafe? SE: Oh yeah they were off in another part of the cafe. This is better. SR: This must have changed on set. It looks really good. SE: It does look good. Well Chester always looks good on screen.

SE: You say you were tickled when Adam Copeland joined the cast but I think you’re a die hard Nathan woman, to the end. SR: Well, that’s true. Oh there’s the line [from Audrey, about the cafe owner being a bigot]. And she sold it too. SE: She did. I like her in this one a lot, I mean I like her in everything, but she’s fun in this one. SR: And this episode in particular I think I liked her more as Mara. The way that Mara’s playing with Duke, is really great. SE: I imagine doing this episode was really difficult for Emily because she’s in two of the major story lines.

[laughing at the washing up liquid by the empty hand cuffs] SE: You know, Matt pitched that and I was like, um, really? Dishsoap? But he was just like; if I see one more person pick a pair of handcuffs with a hair pin, I’m going to want to kill somebody SR: And so there was a funny day in the room where we were pitching what kind of lubricant could be used to get the handcuffs off [much laughing] SE: You see, that’s what I said about the dirty mind, but you make it sound so innocent. And since the word actually fits you could make the case for your mind being not-dirty. When we were on twitter for this episode I remember people loving Mara’s outfit here [as she’s outside with her shopping]; this cute little dress. But this was one of the hardest parts I think, or probably the most challenging part of the script was crafting, and writing and re-writing and getting feedback from everyone in the room and building this Duke/Mara arc, so that what they do at the end feels earned (even though some of you may not think that) and so that it makes sense. Josh, our assistant (who is moving on and is now a staff writer on a show and no longer an assistant) keeps looking at me whenever I make a slight comment that may be perceived as having to do with twitter, and the fact that you guys blame me for Nathan being on screen, and it is not my fault. SR: It’s true, because this episode was - SE: Wait - tell them what is true. SR: OK, what is very true about this episode is that we were trying to get Duke and Mara to a point where Duke was trusting her. And so in order for my episode (the next one) to work, he had to trust her completely. SE: Completely. SR: And one way to demonstrate that, that he trusts someone completely, is that he trusts them enough to open himself up, be vulnerable and go to bed with them. So, yeah Shernold had the very difficult task of writing that … SE: And it was. SR: And I was very jealous that you got to to write it - well I’m always jealous of anyone who gets to write the sex scenes. SE: And then the other thing that we had to do with this episode is bring Audrey and Charlotte together. This is, I think, the first time they meet on screen. And you will know by now, based on the relationship they have, the subtext of this scene is cool and tense and really interesting. SR: Because if you go back to the beginning of this scene, you’ll see the look on Charlotte’s face when she first sees Audrey and it’s just like; woah, I haven’t seen you in … centuries? At this point? SE: Yeah, I guess so. And sometimes, show runners and directors make these decisions, but sometimes they tell the actor and sometimes they don’t. And Laura Mennell [who plays Charlotte] is one of those actors where I think the showrunners, Matt and Gab, told her ultimately who her character would be. But I don’t think they told Emily, and I don’t think they told Lucas or anybody else. Am I right Josh? Josh: I think that’s right. SE: So that’s really cool, because she had this huge secret that she knew that this character would end up being her character’s daughter. But in the same way that the character has no idea that’s her mother, the actor didn’t know either. And the performances are terrific, with one having the information and one not. SR: It play really well on screen. SE: Yeah. And then of course when you know as an audience when you go back, you just see all these little things in there

[As we see the sign with the name of the bakery] SE: The Tart Half. How many times did we have to change that name? SR: What did it start as? Josh; Oh, I came up with something, and we couldn’t use it. I can’t think of it. SE: It was good though SR: Was it Half Baked at one point, or something like that? SE: No, it was another Stephen King reference Josh: Oh, Kneadful Things SE: And there was a Kneadful Things in Maine. Josh: Yeah there was, so we couldn’t use it. SR: That’s so sad. SE: And then some people didn’t get the Tart Half, because I remember some complaints. And I was like; come on - somebody google something.

[As the ambulance pulls up to Terrance’s house] SE: Remember how many different ways this scene changed? It was supposed to be the kids working out on the lawn, and we were going to see the weight drop on him. [As Nathan takes the phone call from Duke] SR: See, the bromance is just so lovely. SE: The bromance is one of the greatest things in the show. I’m sure this made fans of all three in a love triangle freak out, but this I think is the first moment where Duke does not do what Nathan wants in regards to Audrey. When we write these phone scenes I’m always a little bit nervous they’re going to be boring. But this isn’t. SR: Not between these two. (I love that pot-kettle line.) SE: No, not with those eyes. You know his [Nathan’s] eyes are really that colour in real life? SR: Really? SE: Yeah, because he was sitting about this close to me, as you are SR: Oh yeah just rub it in. SE: We did a commentary for 5.17 which was so fun. Do you have any idea how fun Lucas Bryant is to hang out with? But we were talking and I looked over like; Oh my god your eyes are really that colour. That was fun. SR: Yeah, this whole season I’ve been trying really hard to meet Lucas Bryant. Nothing. Shernold comes in this morning telling me how she did a commentary with Lucas and I … well I won’t say what I called her. SE: It’s crazy, it was like snuffleupagus. Do you have that here? Josh; I know what snuffleupagus is. SE: Well you’re practically Canadian. But it’s a Sesame Street thing right? Americans know what that is. OK so Lucas was like snuffleupagus to you, because you would come in and we’d all be like; Oh my god you just missed Lucas. SR: Yep, and then there was the day that Adam came in and I wasn’t here either. SE: Weren’t you at least on the phone then though? SR: No, I found out about it the next time I came in to the office. I was like Seriously? SE: Well that was a complete surprise, we didn’t know he was coming in or we would have told you. Josh; Shireen I don’t know if this is a good time to tell you but I’ve also done a commentary with Lucas Bryant. SR: *disappointed noises* Josh; I was here with him and Adam Higgs and they invited me to join them. That happened. SE; That’s so great. SR: Lucas is going to listen to this commentary and think - SE: Lucas is not going to listen to this commentary. Don’t you worry about it. SR: He’d be like; Oh I’ve got a stalker in LA, great. SE: First of all, get in line. There are many stalkers I’m sure, of Lucas Bryant and his face. Second of all; Lucas is not going to listen to this commentary. So we can say whatever we want.

SR: I remember one of the changes to this was that we originally had it that the mom was going to have an issue with the fact that - SE: Oh yeah! Scripts go through a lot of rewriting and initially I went a bit overboard with the bigotry I think. Just one spoonful too much bigotry, where initially the mom, the owner of the bakery, was supposed to be homophobic as well. And it was our SyFy exec, Erik Storey, who pointed out that things have changed and not only is that becoming less of an issue (with same-sex marriage and everything) but we’ve seen that story before. And I was like; you are absolutely right. And it did make the story much stronger and much more interesting I think. SR: Because it was nice to see that the mom was totally accepting of one thing but completely opposed to the other SE: Yeah. That was good to get to be able to do that.

[As Nathan comes to see Charlotte in the lab] SR: OK how awesome does he look just leaning up against the door frame there? OK I’ll stop now. SE: Well this was fun too because we don’t often get to see Nathan doing a bit of subtefuge SR: That’s true. I love this with the gloves [where Nathan tries to shake Charlotte’s hand] SE: That actually worked out really well, I wasn’t sure - on the page some people thought it would be way too obvious in the look back that Charlotte was avoiding shaking Nathan’s hand because he would be able to feel her, being the mother of Audrey/Mara, and being one of those other ... beings SR: … people, things. Has anybody else mentioned in any of the commentaries how we’ve gone out of our way to not name where … or what …? SE: I think they probably haven’t, and I think there might have been a reason for that. SR: OK. Then I won’t talk about it.

[Charlotte: Yes bleach is an antiseptic but no your brother should not use it to clean his wound] SE: I didn’t think that was going to fly. That line about the bleach. SR: I thought it was hilarious. SE: I though it was going to get cut for sure. I thought that was going to get a big DB aka Do Better on that line. SR: It totally sounds like something Vince and Dave would do.

SE: You know what I think Haven missed? A good carnival episode. SR: Well we did do the fair. SE: No I mean like a *switches accent* carnival SR: Oh! You have to say it in Trinny speak or we won’t know what you’re talking about. SE: But could you imagine Dwight pulling one of those big … SR: We’re talking about Trinidad carnival SE: Yeah. Google that too. It’s amazing. And there are massive costumes that people pull along the parade route and make them dance, because they’re built to have flexibility and movement. And then she’d be in one of those … SR: Skimpy skimpy things SE: Not Emily. But one of those beautiful feathered head dresses, with lots of sparkles.

[As Charlotte is telling Audrey about her cells degenerating] SE: This is something we back and forth on a lot too; the nature of Audrey’s illness. And now to make it seem real but also have it fit within the idea that it could be something to do with her separation from Mara. SR: I think I was talking to my brother at one point, my brother’s a doctor, and asking him what could make a cell just break apart. And he’s like; there’s this thing called apoptosis. So I wrote that down, and it was always open on my ipad to the apoptosis wikipedia page. So we sort of went off of that in a way. SE: Well it’s always good to have real science.

[As Grace is talking about getting bullied via potato chips] SE: Oh hey Josh where did that line come from? Oh no it wasn’t you, it was Adam Higgs! Josh; I had a line … I didn’t really say anything the first couple of weeks on the job and then I thought, I think I might have something here. Which didn’t end up making it in, but it was there for a little while where they were talking to Dwight about; Even when you’re really bulked up can you still feel like it’s not enough? And he says; All the time. SE: Oh yeah, that was a really beautiful moment. I liked this part of Grace’s character too, which was also atypical in that she wasn’t broken down by the bullies, which was neat. But yeah we wanted to do this whole sequence with Terrance who was bulking up because he was being bullied at school, and he was really buff. And it was going to be this nice moment between … back then it was going to be Dwight and Audrey investigating it. So there was going to be this really nice moment between Dwight and Audrey, as Josh said, where she was like; Well you’re a pretty buff guy do you sometimes feel like you could still be hurt? That’s kind of a whole other story though.

SR: You know it’s funny when I was reading the script and the guy in the hospital bed was talking about ‘she looked at me, it looked like she was looking through me’ and I always envisioned that when we saw her looking at her mom there were going to be these weird soulless eyes, or that we were going to do visual effects or something. SE: Oh that never occurred to me. That’s kind of cool. SR: But I think this works better, because it’s not weird and creepy. It’s just; this is who I am mom, and you don’t love me.

[As we see Duke letting out a Trouble] SR: Remember the debates that we would have in the writers room about how his Trouble was going to work here? SE: Yeah we had, what, three different versions? And that’s why I got quiet for a moment there because I haven’t seen how this manifested. It’s really neat; look at that. Originally this Trouble was supposed to be a World War II under fire kind of thing, you know the room would be shaking and you’d hear shelling outside and the ceiling would be caving in. And then someone pointed out; well then when they went outside wouldn’t everything just be destroyed. SR: But this was the big crucial scene to bring them together. And it was the hardest scene. SE: It was the hardest scene. A lot of re-writes on this one. SR: But you nailed it. I think this works really, really well, because at the end, he has to admit. The Trouble forces him to admit that he trusts her. SE: Oh that’s neat, look at that! [being impressed at the effects]

SR: I think one of things I liked about Charlotte’s character is that we moulded her to be a scientists and to figure out that there is a scientific component to the Troubles. SE: Yeah! I was sorry that we couldn’t take that further. SR: I like it when the supernatural is grounded in some kind of science. SE: It’s neat. But then we don’t want to take it too far into the scientific because... SR: Then you lose the fantasy of it SE: But then also, you know, 200 years ago what we do with modern medicine would have seemed like magic. SR: Yeah completely.

[At Mara and Duke’s first kiss] SE: Oh look at that! Literally steamy! They did well there. SR: See how quiet we got. That scene was just … SE: Yeah but we’re supposed to be not quiet. I think when we leave here Josh will be forced to tell everybody that this is the silliest commentary he has ever had to sit through. Josh; And you should know everybody, that we are here on a Sunday, because this is how much we love all of you [A moment of quiet] SE: Oh gosh Shireen we have to stop just watching. Josh; Well I remember, if I can butt in here SE and SR in unison: Please do Josh; I remember it was a really great thing when we figured out that Audrey would get worse by solving this Trouble. But she didn’t care because that’s the kind of character she was SR: Yes, selfless Josh: And also the idea that because it’s based on how you feel about yourself, she felt that she was strong and therefore she became strong SE: Oh Josh that’s a great thing to remember. There’s a lot of girl power I think in this episode. SR: And then the nice thing too you see that Charlotte isn’t just being concerned as a doctor, she’s also like; I don’t want my daughter to get sick again. I don’t want my, potentially my daughter, to die. SE: And also I think between these two characters it’s the first time that Charlotte sees that, this isn’t Mara. SR: Oh yeah that’s true! I’d forgotten that.

[As the cafe owner on screen is returned to her correct age and then tells them all to get out] SE: And she’s still mean. SR: I think this is the best part of the script the fact that you made sure that she maintained her bigotry all the way to the end SE: Definitely more realistic SR: It’s not just a switch SE: You know when you write these things too, you’re always aware that, like here Charlotte doesn’t have a lot to say in this scene, but her emotional reactions are really important. But when you’re writing it it’s hard to see that in your head, or to convince other people of that, when they’re reading it. So I’m glad she stayed in the scene.

SR: I like these two together [Nathan and Dwight]. We don’t get to see them solve a lot of stuff. SE: I always like when this surveillance footage stuff works out. It’s a trope but it’s very handy. SR: I like this, that even in surveillance footage Nathan is like, I know that face, that Duke Crocker face SE: That particular kind of grumpy; that’s an angry grumpy

[a shot of the sunset] SE: That’s stunning! I don’t think I’ve ever seen that shot before SR: That is one thing about the show that is so captivating, is the fact that we shoot in Nova Scotia and the scenery is just so gorgeous.

[As we see Duke and Mara together] SE: Oh my goodness. Oh my gosh. I don’t think he’s wearing any underwear. SR: Yeah you’re not a Daudrey at all SE: woah.

[As we see Dwight and Charlotte talking at the end] SR: I love these two. They’re adorbs. SE: They’re great. I think this is one of the first emotional moments we came up with, of her being overwhelmed by the Troubles and the amount of damage they have done. And of her knowing the role that she’s played in that, even if inadvertently SR: Laura played it very well. SE: Gosh I think this moment got shunted into this point, we had this on the board forever, where we realise that charlotte does seem to have an ulterior motive, another agenda involving Audrey SR: Yeah it was a great set up for the next episode

SE: Well thank you everyone, for suffering through that commentary. Well, Shireen was fantastic. SR: And Shernold wrote an incredible script SE: You’re very sweet. On to the next one!

#haven syfy #haven dvd commentaries #haven 5 #5.11 - reflections